Parenting Talk With Soha Ali Khan and Shouger Merchant Doshi | Parenting Coach & Influencer

Hi everyone. So today we are meeting for the launch of the book the Power of Make Believe Parenting through Pretend Play, authored by Sugar Merchant Doshi. And this is in association with Crossword India and crossword bookstore Penguin India. And I'm really excited to be doing this because this book is truly aligned with my philosophy and that the best learning happens through play. I'm Riddhi Devra, a parenting coach and influencer. And I'm on a mission to help 100,000 parents live a happy, holistic and spiritual life. I'll be moderating the event today. So let me quickly introduce you to the. To the author. The author of this book is Sugar Merchant Doshi. She's a former journalist, lawyer, turned into an entrepreneur in the child space with pinwheel projects. And she's doing phenomenal. This book is amazing. It's about pretend play. And she truly believes that the most important value that we need to impart to our kids is confidence. And confidence can be achieved through communication through reading the right books and pretend play. Exactly what she's spoken about in this book. She's mentioned more than 60 plus pretend play ideas, 10 activity boosters and hundred book recommendations. Books that we must read to our kids because reading is important. But reading the right books to our kids is even more important. I absolutely love, love what Sugar has done and would quickly like to bring sugar on.

Hi, Vidhi.

Yes, hi. Hi. Absolutely love the book. It's fantastic. I've been using your concepts with my son and I've been seeing the difference in him. It's beautiful. And you know, some concepts are so beautiful that they actually took me back to my childhood days. Like you know those games like teacher teacher and sending a letter to your child and making encouraging them to do that. Beautiful. And let me quickly introduce everybody to our guest speaker for today. So our guest speaker for today actually needs no introduction. She's beautiful. She's gorgeous. And she's the talented Indian actor. She's featured in movies like Rangde Basanti, Tum Mille and Go Go are Gone. And she's beautiful. She's a mother to a beautiful daughter and she's none other than Soha Ali Khan. And today she'll be discussing with us her views on parenting. So can we please have Soha on?

Hi everyone. Hi, guys. Hi, Shuge.

Hi.

Hi, Soha. Yes, hi. So let's quickly start because I have so many questions for both of you and we have very little time. So without wasting any time, I'm going to quickly start asking questions. So Sugar, this One is for you. What really inspired you to write this book? What was the inspiration behind this book?

So when I had my son, Kian, I genuinely was thinking about what can I do as a parent, as all mothers do, think about what we can like promises, life skills in them, or how can we really help them out. Because I didn't want to be the mother who would push him into doing one activity or another or fit into this whole rat race of parenting, sending him from one class to another. I wanted to really think about how can I as a parent help him with his life skills. And then I thought about my childhood and I realized that I was a very voracious reader. I read a lot, I wrote a lot, and I genuinely enjoyed my reading and writing. I believed that verbally expressing yourself well was half the battle, if not the entire battle won. And I thought that that would. That has propelled me to be successful. Whether it was in college or university or in my career or even for someone who's securing a job interview or a presentation or anything that a person, you know, really needs to do, they could use vocabulary, a good vocabulary, a rich vocabulary, and, you know, a good ability to basically speak, read and write will basically take you through any job interview or any career goal that you have. So I thought that that's what I'd work on with my child. And I didn't want to do it in a very pedagogic format of sitting with him with worksheets and, you know, trying to make him write in a very school or formulaic way. So I thought, let me try and do it through play. And when I was doing these pretend play activities, which, like you said, all parents do, it's not rocket science. All of us are doing it in some way, shape or form with our kids. This was just a more structured way of doing it so that I could inculcate or kind of introduce educational concepts. Because you can bring in counting, you can bring in math, numbers, you can bring in, you know, shapes, colors, sizes, everything that you want to teach your child, you can pretty much put it in through pretend play and ensure that you're having great communication with them, which is, according to me, you know, 90% of, you know, what I could do for my child and in the future, what he needs to do and what his skill set shows, then that would be something that I would help him pursue. But what I can do at my end would just be to like, basically give him the gift of a good vocabulary and this confidence that comes from having being able to Speak well, read well, and write well. I think that that was something that was a theme in my childhood. So I thought that let me try writing this book where I would talk about my activities or all the activities that are rather simple, but just kind of simplify them in a more structured format so that parents, it's easier for parents to kind of pick it up and just go, go, go, go, rather than thinking, okay, what do I need for this? What do I need for that? Does my child really want to do doctor, doctor, teacher, teacher today? You know, so then. And this just lays out all the educational benefits of pretend play so that when you open the book, you're also reading that this is the best form of, you know, there's a lot of research that pretend play, you know, instigates your prefrontal cortex and all the learning happens through play, whether it's emotional, social, creative disposition, all of it comes through play. So why not teach them through play rather than sit down with worksheets and, you know, have that whole power struggle eliminated with your child? So that was the main inspiration for writing the book.

Right? And it's beautiful. I've been reading the book and trying these activities and I love how you structured it like, you know, what you need, how to prepare, how to play, and also mention what are the skills that they'll be learning after they're done playing. So it's very easy for parents to actually try these activities, which I love about your book. And Soha, thank you for joining us. And you're a beautiful woman and a beautiful mother and I have some questions about parenting for you. So my first question to you. Most of us, after we become a parent, we change, you know, we see certain changes in us. Do you feel that you saw a change in yourself after you became a mother in terms of your preferences, in terms of your priorities?

I certainly feel, you know, I wanted to be one of those parents that allows the child to naturally fall into your lifestyle. Everything should not change according to the baby. The baby should not be the center of your universe. But it was very difficult to do. And unfortunately, Inaya has become the center of my universe and she knows it. I decided, I think, to have a baby later in life because I wanted to be very hands on and I knew that my career, other priorities which were also important to me, like traveling or studying or working, I wanted to do that with an equal amount of passion. And as a person, it may be a limitation. I've been quite single minded in my approach. When I do something, I Sort of tend to fall in love with it and give it my all. I think it's a limitation because other things, you know, I tend to ignore other things and other people. And so I decided to have a baby later in life because I knew that she would become my almost sole focus. And my challenge has been on working on myself and trying to make her a part of my life and not my entire life. It has been my personality from a very young age. But I, of course, have changed. As I said, my priorities have changed. And she is certainly at the top of the list. My, I think, you know, when they say your heart is no longer a part of your body, anxiety levels, you know, I don't think I've slept as peacefully as I used to before she was born. You know, sometimes I remember when I was in Sri Lanka once, I imagined her crying in the middle of the night. And I was like, it's obviously not possible. But I hear. When I hear a child crying, it sort of disturbs me, you know, I can't that sound in the kind of careless way I used to before because, you know, it resonates with me. So, I mean, things change. You can never go back to not being a parent. And that's quite scary because you see how vulnerable you are in so many ways.

Right, right. That is so beautiful. And it's so true that no matter where you go, they go with you. Once you become a parent, you always.

Carry them on a holiday.

We say that, you know, we want to go on a break, we want to go. Want to go on a vacation. But, you know, it's. We're always constantly thinking about them, even on a holiday. So, yes, that is one thing that also happened with me. And my next question for you, Sugar, is that you. Can you just tell us how can a parent sit with your book and go through the activity? You know, what, how should they really go about it? Like, it's very easily explained, but I want the viewers to get a feel of it.

Sure. So the book is laid out in many different ways. It has four chapters which basically talk only about the pretend play activities. And they're basically broken up as for certain categories. So one of them is more related to like DIYs and craft activities, of course, with the whole pretend play aspect. But one of them focuses more heavily on that. The. Another chapter focuses on kidpreneurs. So more of like, you know, your child hosting like a lemonade stand or an ice cream bar or a donut shop or being a chef. Whereas another category Focuses on a conversation booster. So it has more along the lines of like a treasure hunt or an art auction or a calendar station or weatherman and things like that. And then the fourth one is your make believe. So it's basically your doctor, doctor and your office and you know, you're pretending to be a construction worker or pretending to be doing. Pretending to be a detective and things like that. So that is covered in the four chapters. So that's how it's broken up. A lot of the activities have an age recommended age as well. And more than anything, I think there's also like a chapter that kind of talks about how to, how to do it because it's not just, let's just bring all these materials, put it together and make this tent and now we're done. And you know, that's done. It's actually the whole process is you can create these reading and writing opportunities. So if you're doing, if you're doing the art auction and the theme is say animals, then you can actually read up about animals. What are the different kinds of mammals, Reptiles, amphibians, what is the baby kangaroo called? Or like, you know, anything. You can just create opportunities to impart knowledge and have that conversation. Read a book about whatever you're doing the activity on and ask them to find the materials, kind of let them lead that aspect where they can kind of come up with their own ideas of how to build it or draw it or write it, either which way, whatever the activity demands. So the process is very. It's more like it's a structured pretend play. So it's laid out that way so that you can help yourself and your child kind of get to the end goal. But the whole the bottom line is not what it looks like at the end of it. Like my editor told me when, you know, when we were discussing the book at the very beginning, she said, this is what I wanted to. I want to convey to everybody is that it's like making the world's messiest cake and most not so tasteful cake, but just having so much fun making it. So the end process is just not important. That's why there's no pictures in the book. Because whatever you make or your child makes is the best version. And whatever it's the whole process and that process of conversation and communication is going to make a difference and impact your child. Not the actual art and craft of it or the actual end product rather.

Right, right. That's so beautiful. And I feel that is very, very nice that you not put pictures Because I feel that, you know, as parents, you're always striving to get perfect, get very competitive.

I think we'll copy the picture. We'll say we have to get it exactly as it is in the book, right?

Yes. I just love how deeply you've thought about it. That's actually very beautiful. So what is your, what are your views on pretend play? And do you do that a lot with your daughter Inaya?

She loves it. You know, I don't know when it started and whether it was something that I encouraged, but I do know that it's her favorite thing to do in the day, which is why, you know, it was so natural for me to want to be a part of this discussion today. Because it's something that truly resonates with me and something that I appreciate. Because one of the things that we struggle with is coming up with ideas. Because often she has her favorites, but sometimes she'll say, what do you want to do? And it can be very exhausting to also pretend play. You know, it's not always fun for the parent, it's fun for the child. But sometimes, you know, it's, it can be tiring playing with a three year old and a four or a four year old or a six year old, you know, when you just want to watch TV instead and let them be, you know, by themselves. So I think that, you know, when you have something that is so beautifully structured, something that gives you the idea, something that tells you what materials to prepare, it falls into place and it has a kind of loose structure to it, which means that you actually go through it in a way where you are achieving something without the, not only the effort, but also without actually the effort and organization. And it's effortless. You're not trying to do anything, you're not trying to reach an end goal, but you're getting there sort of naturally. And again, I take my cues from Inaya because now, of course, she's going to online school, she's doing a number of classes and whenever we finish something that is formal education, you know, she says, I say, what do you want to do? And she says, let's play. And I said, you know, why do you enjoy playing so much? And she said, because, you know, I'm not, I don't have to learn something. And I think that's the best form of imparting learning is when the child doesn't even realize that you're making them.

Sit down with a pencil.

And then, you know, I was sort of, of course, didn't want to burst a bubble and say, you're learning so much because I can see how her vocabulary has improved. Things like empathy, because at least with my child, who's three will be four soon, she often just wants to be one character. She doesn't want to be a boy. She doesn't want to be, you know, the mean character. Sometimes she doesn't want to be the character that speaks a lot because, you know, she's not that confident. Even when it's just her and me in a room, she'll say, I'm shy. I'll be the dog who doesn't. And slowly, slowly, with a little bit of encouragement, I can see how her confidence has increased, how her empathy has increased, her ability to put herself in the shoes of so many different characters and live their lives. Of course, her numeracy skills, her literacy skills. And as I said, and again, I connect with Shuger on this in that communication. I see how my ability to communicate has taken me far in life. Do want to encourage that in Anaya as well. I do feel that apart from what, you know, your ability to talk to people and connect with them and, you know, it's a very crass way of putting it, and I can put it with more finesse, but I can't right now. The ability to sell yourself, you know, in a way is something that I see very intelligent people lacking. And I do think that somewhere it holds them back. So those things that people don't emphasize a lot on and a lot of our educational systems also don't emphasize on that, you know, I think that those things are facilitated by books like, you know, the Power of Make Believe and by pretend play.

Right, no, that's very, very beautifully mentioned. And you know, one thing that I really believe in is that it's not about how much you know, it's how much you can help with whatever little you know. And that would only happen if you could effectively communicate whatever it is that you know. So, and the reason why I also agreed to moderate this is because I really strongly believe in pretend play. And I really believe that this, the best form of learning is through play. You know, kids should not really know that they are being taught and that's when they best learn. So that's very beautiful. And one really thing, one very important thing that I read in your book is that your child is sleeping from 7:30 in the evening till 7:30 in the morning. So what is it that you're doing? What's the magic that you're doing to make that Happen.

Many of my friends constantly ask me, what is the secret sauce? You know, how do you manage this? And I continuously tell people that it has. It has literally been early adoption of a very strict routine. And while I firmly believe in a routine, while I don't want to overly schedule so that I could, I stifle his creativity, at the same time, I also believe that a routine really helps a child. It not only helps them to know what's coming next and to be more secure and, you know, they know what to expect. And it just eliminates the power struggles and the negotiation that you can have as to bedtime or bath time and all of that. So if there's a routine that you're following, it has to be early adoption. I've been doing this since the time, you know, he was one, and he's just always slept at that time. So he's not had an option unless it's a weekend and then he's sleeping over with us or, you know, we're watching a movie or something. That's. That's something that we allow him to kind of stay up for. But otherwise he has a bedtime and he knows about it and he climbs into his bed. Of course, now, because he's older, it wasn't so easy when he was younger, but it has just been the establishment of a routine. And I think to a large extent, the whole. I mean, we do read. I mean, as both of you, I'm sure, do as well. You read before bedtime. We do read to him. We have a whole structured way of reading to him and winding down and downtime and all of that. And apart from that, I also think the whole adoption of pretend play from the time he was three, three and a half, till now, we do one activity a week, so he gets to think and talk about that activity the whole week. Because as working parents, which both my husband and I are, we get only the mornings and the evenings with him. So for us, that time is quality time. It's not, you know, I always say it's the quality and not the quantity of time that really determines the, you know, parenting. Because you're parenting 24 hours a day, no matter where you are in the. In the city or in the world. But basically, in terms of, like, the little time that you do get to really make it count. I feel that the whole process of pretend play has genuinely helped because he's so excited to go to the next activity. It was one, you know, big thing for him that, okay, now we're doing this Today we're going to do this tomorrow. I can't wait. Let me go to bed and wake up early. And I actually from the time he was one and a half till four, I have been telling him a made up story which has never ended. So there was one chapter every single night and the story never ended. So he was very excited to find out what happened and he knew he would only find out next the next day at bedtime. So it was a silly story with two animals. I don't know how I came up with it. And I would just keep making it up for two and a half years. And then once he was four, I realized I need to stop the story because it's been going on for really long. And that's when I started pretend play with him. So that literally it's a good routine and good books and that's, that's literally there's no secret sauce to it. Literally.

I feel the secret is your personal discipline as a parent, you know, for I feel that, you know, to get them into bed on time, we also need that discipline because with me, what happens if I go with him, he'll go to bed. If I don't, then it's, you know, it takes me a lot of time to actually put him to bed. So yes, of course that's there. And so my next question for you SOA is that, you know, like as parents we really influence our kids and this is a question that I get a lot from my parents, parents in my tribe is that in a joint family, like it could be sometimes very difficult to really bring up your child the way you would like to bring up your child. So how do you feel like what is the impact of a parent on the child when you are raising a child in a joint family setup? Because you might really want to discipline your child but there are people around you who might not want to do it the same way.

I feel like I'm going to get into trouble when I answer this question with my mother, my in laws, with everybody else. But let's assume they're not watching. Of course I feel I'm the best influence on my child, of course. And nobody can convince me otherwise. But my mother sat me down and said that, you know, she has to be exposed to other influence. She has to become her own person. She's certainly not hopefully going to be a reflection of you. And look at the way she looks at you. There's so much. She's looking for your approval all the time. You know, you may not recognize it but she's constantly watching you. Should I eat this? Am I allowed to do? Even now she knows, like the other day when, you know, Kunal came home after 25 days in Ladakh and she said, papa, let's eat ice cream, and immediately looked at me, you know, I was sort of like feeling guilty that, you know, like, he's also a parent, he should be allowed to make rules. But she knows that at least in terms of bedtime and nutrition, I'm the one who's the lawmaker. Of course, the older they become, the other people, the grandparents and, you know, uncles, aunts will come and they're not going to. I'm the youngest person in my family. My mother and my, you know, my in laws aren't going to listen to me beyond a point in terms of, you know, what they should feed their grandchild. They also have a right. So I understand that I have to take a backseat at certain times. I have told them and everybody knows because I'm very open about how I feel in terms of refined sugar, healthy food. Bedtime is a given no matter where we are in the world. 7:30, the lights are out. Nobody else is in that room and Inaya is in that bed. That doesn't matter. Then I will fight with everybody to maintain that food. I understand now because she speaks for herself. I mean, if there's going to be cake on the table, I cannot take it away from her. And I need her to now make conscious choices herself. She, even when she's away from me, should know that she should eat something that is healthy and she should eat things that are unhealthy. Once in a while, I need her to know from within. I can't be the person to enforce that all the time. And that is now the way that I'm moving forward, you know, so it is. It is difficult. The lockdown has been helpful because we've spent a lot of time alone and I've managed to have her to myself to, you know, do whatever I can. And now I sort of hand her over to the world as the lockdown eases. But I do think it takes a community to bring up a child. It's not just. And it is quite arrogant of me to think that I know the best, although I still maintain that I know what is best for her. But I have been told that other can also fruitfully contribute to her upbringing.

No, it's actually very nice that you believe that you know the best, because I feel that when you are very confident as a parent, you actually raise A very confident child. Because sometimes when we start doubting ourselves and we doubt that, you know, I'm not doing good enough for my child, that's also a problem area. So, yes, it's good to be actually confident about what you're doing with your child because that is actually going to reflect in her personality event that we.

Have to draw, make a distinction between confidence and being controlling.

Yes, yes, of course.

People just want to control. And I myself have been guilty of that, whereby I have to reflect and take a step back and understand that this is coming from me wanting my child to listen to me and I must sometimes listen to her.

Right, right, of course, of course. And you made that clear when you said that you want her to make her decisions consciously, which means that you're not like a controlling person.

Yes. To make the decision that I agree.

Don't we all?

Yes. So my next question for you, Sugar, is that you've spoken very beautifully about some conflicting situations that you know, which you see, like, you know, mostly parents go through with their kids, like bathing kids, not doing their homework. And you also recommended a few hacks to actually get them to do these things without going through a lot of trouble. So if you could just share some tips with us.

So honestly, parenting is just so much about various processes because everything has a process. Bath time is a process, meal time. You know, you have to get certain things ready. You want to make sure that there's no Maida, there's no Sugar, there's no this, there's no that. Everything is a process. So just sometimes we're so bogged down with the processes that we kind of forget to enjoy the moments. So just to make those high conflict situations, like not wanting to do homework or not wanting to go for a bath or, you know, just like throwing a tantrum because you're not getting what you want. All of those. All of those not so fun situations that we all go through as parents with our young kids, especially toddlers, it's just to make those moments more fun. So I just gave. I came up with a few hacks because my child did not like to go for a bath for the longest time. And I said I have to come up with fun ways to get him interested in having a bath. So I came up with, you know, fun things which I listed in the book, which kind of helped him overcome that whole phobia of me, of him not wanting to have a bath in about a few weeks of trying these different hacks. So that helped him. So I said, let me List it in the book. It's not a universal guide or, you know, may not help everybody, but it did help my son. So I said, let me list it. And then, of course, even with homework, homework was always a struggle because I have a son and my child wants to run around or, you know, do anything that's more, you know, stimulating to his senses than homework. So but. But that is a part of his life and that's a part of school life, and that's something that he does have to do. So in that aspect, I tried to find things, things to do, things that would make the homework part more fun. So I listed some of those. So you have to read the book to read all of those hacks. But they are just things that worked for me that I listed. But in general, the high conflict situations arise because we take them very. Read the book to read all of those hacks, but they are just things that worked for me that I listed. But in general, the high conflict situations arise because we take them very, very seriously as parents. And I feel like if we chill out a little bit about them and just understand that, look, they're kids, they don't understand. They don't know that this is really required, you know, that you have to do the homework, you have to do xyz, number of things, you have to know a few things to pass to the next grade, and then that's going to take you on in life. The whole trajectory isn't very apparent to them at this age, and neither should it be. So to explain that to them and have this communication and also make things a little bit more fun is where I feel the high conflict situations can become. There are less lower conflict situations.

It's beautiful that you mentioned that you've spoken about your experience and it might, might not work because I think kids are very unpredictable. So whatever, we, you know, we have to try different things with them.

But also, I feel like I'm not an expert at parenting, right? Like none of us are. We're all winging it one day at a time as mothers. And I don't think. And even the book in the very first chapter, I clearly say that I'm not an expert and that I have only listed things that have worked for me. And if they work for you, then that's great. And if you choose to do the pretend play activities in this structured format and if you find merit in it, then that's great. But they're not universal rules for parenting because they really can't be. It's such a personal thing. And there just isn't like a universal guide that says you need to do this to be the best parent. And your child is definitely going to be all rounded if you do XYZ or hit these milestones and all of that. I don't necessarily believe in any of that. So it's just like literally moments that you can make count with the tiny human at home is the reason I've written the book. And it's not, you know, some universal guide, it's just to help moms out who like Soha said, like sometimes you, you know, you're tired, you've come home from a rough day at work and you just don't want to think, okay, he wants to, he or she wants to pretend play. What can I think of? What should I remove? Where are the materials? Sometimes you just don't want to think about it. And you may, you may be superbly creative, but you don't want to sit and think about it because you're exhausted from your own, you know, whatever you've got got going on in your life. So this book just makes it easier for you to kind of pull out the books that you should read. I've listed, you know, books that I think cover a vast number of topics that one would want to talk about with their child and of course the pretend play activities just so that it makes your life easier.

No, and this is very true that, you know, it's very difficult to think what to do and it's not very difficult to actually do it. I feel it's the same with, you know, deciding the males. It's so difficult to decide what to make, but it's not very difficult to actually make what you want to eat. So I think it's an actually, a lot of parents in my community are actually struggling with this because kids always come up to you and they're like, you know, I want to do something, what should I do? What should I do? So, you know, if they have these ideas listed, it's so easy for parents to actually decide what they can do. So you've actually done so work for so many parents out there. You know, you've really simplified their life in so many ways. And I had one more question about the book.

And also pretend play is that, you know, your, your imagination is unlimited. And from a young age, if you introduce your child to the concept of pretend, then you can play anywhere. You can play in a five hour car journey. You know, if you're driving somewhere, you just need your face and your body and your hands and anything around you and you imagine. And from a young age, we used to do that with Inaya, which is why today, if we don't have what is required, she'll pick up something that, you know, she'll pick up a book and say, imagine it's a balloon. So I think that ability to imagine and think out of the box and be creative is something that if you encourage from a young age, it'll. That sort of word, boredom, you'll be able to fend that off.

Yeah, absolutely.

And also, when you give them too much information, I feel that information vaporizes. But stories always stay with you. I think pretend plays more like a story that you're telling yourself every day. So I remember I did like a picnic setup in my balcony with my son almost a year back. And just like a few weeks back, we had good weather. So we. I was doing a picnic setup again for him in the balcony, and he remembered exactly what we had done, like one year back. And he was like, you know, where are the sandwiches? I was like, what sandwich? He's like, remember last time we took sandwiches for the picnic? So they remember a lot of information once you make it more fun. So that's there. Also one beautiful thing that you've spoken about in your book, Sugar is like postpartum depression. And, you know, how can mothers really, you know, go through it? So if you could just slightly touch upon it.

So I just. I was. That was a chapter where I was writing about mom truths and mom myths. And I literally said that there's so many of these mom myths that, you know, you need to breastfeed for a certain number of years or months, and that's only when your child is going to get good immunity. And, you know, you need to do this and you need to do that. And all of these things that I was hearing even when I was pregnant and was like, adding so much pressure to a new mom, and I felt like none of those are true. And I did some research, which I even mentioned in the book, where none of those myths are really true. So I just tried to bust them a little bit. And then there was some mom truths, which I feel people just don't tell you when you're pregnant or when you have your child. Nobody tells you that. Postpartum is not just something that's going to happen to a few people who choose to talk about it. It happens to every single. There is no one who can tell you they haven't gone through some kind of depression or some kind of, you know, feeling low moments because all of a sudden your life isn't yours anymore and it belongs to your child and your entire schedule and life and your day is based on this little human that you don't even know yet, apart from breastfeeding them. So literally it is, it is a whole change. It's a 360 change in your life. Especially if you were used to a fast paced working life prior to having your child. It is a complete difference. So anyone who says that they haven't gone through it, and I don't mean clinical depression, I just mean going through a new phase of it, just suddenly it's such a big change that your body, your mind, everything goes through that. I felt like not enough people spoke about it, so I just wanted to like, you know, touch upon it. It's not what the book is about, but I just wrote that, you know, it is a rite of passage and I feel that almost every mother goes through something, some kind of feeling depression. I just mean going through a whole phase of your just suddenly it's such a big change that your body, your mind, everything goes through that. I felt like not enough people spoke about it. So I just wanted to like, you know, touch upon it. It's not what the book is about, but I just wrote that, you know, it is a rite of passage and I feel that almost every mother goes through some kind of feeling low moments and you know, talking about it and obviously, you know, speaking about it openly kind of helps other mothers to like move along, you know, and deal with it correctly.

Right, right, right. Yes, that's so true. And Soha, so the next question for you, and most of my questions are actually questions from parents, low moments and.

You know, talking about it and obviously, you know, speaking about it openly kind of helps other mothers to like move along, you know, and deal with it correctly.

Right, right, right. Yes, that's so true. And Soha, so the next question for you, and most of my questions are actually questions from parents is what is your view about view on co sleeping?

I have not spent a single night with my daughter. Neither have I with my daughter.

With my son.

I have not. And I don't. I mean there are times when I.

Want to is what is your view about view on co sleeping?

I have not spent a single night with my daughter.

Neither have I with my daughter. With my son.

I have not and I don't. I mean there are times when I want to and I want to cuddle her and I watch her on the camera when she's asleep and my husband is constantly saying, inaya, you know, come to our bed in the morning and all sorts of things. I'm just whacking him on the head with the pillow and saying, don't give her these ideas. And she's fully asking now, you know, when I turn off the light she says, lie down in bed with me for five minutes and I want to cuddle her and I watch her on the camera when she's asleep. And my husband is constantly saying, inaya, you know, come to our bed in the morning and all sorts of things. I'm just whacking him on the head with the pillow and saying don't give her these ideas. And she's fully asking now, you know, when I turn off the light she says, lie down in bed with me for five minutes. I get bad dreams at night when you leave I, you know, are you not comfortable in my bed? She's never once asked to sleep in my bed. I don't know when that will happen. But at the moment she wants me to sleep in her bed and I'm very clear and I'm all, I get bad dreams at night when you leave I, you know, are you not comfortable in my bed? She's never once asked to sleep in my bed. I don't know when that will happen. But at the moment she wants me to sleep in her bed and I'm very clear and I'm always say no. And sometimes it takes, you know, 15 minutes longer, you know, 7:30 and then I'm in and out of that door till 7:45. But I keep saying no, no, I'll come, I'll give you another kiss, I'll give you another blessing, you know, whatever. But you know, usually. And then because as, again, as Shugya said, we've been doing this from a very young age. She knows that there's certain things that the battles she's not going to win and there's certain battles that she may win but when it comes to having, like she has a tea and then I'm in and out of that door till 7:45. But I keep saying no, no, I'll come, I'll give you another kiss, I'll give you another blessing, you know, whatever. But you know, usually. And then because again, as Shugya said, we've been doing this from a very young age. She knows that there's certain things that the BA bath at 7 and 7:30, lights out. She knows that that's going to happen and it has happened every single night. So, you know, unless she comes up with, you know, hires a lawyer and comes up with a different strategy, then, you know, it's something that I'm very clear on because there are nights where I'm not there when I'm traveling. There are nights when I'm shooting nights, you know, I need her to be without me and I need to without her, you know, I will function better in the day. And so, you know, I think she thinks I go away at 7:30 and I come back in the morning. I don't know where she thinks I go. And again, she's young compared to your children. There will be a time where, you know, and I don't want to jinx it, she's never opened the door of her room after 7:30 to come out to see what is happening. She assumes that the world goes to sleep. When she does, she does still think. And there will be a time where she will see that that doesn't happen. What I've managed to do is, for example, because we can watch television and she can't. In the week. I used to hide and watch television. Now I watch television in front of her and I say, this is something that I can do, but something that you can't do, you can do it on the weekend. And now she's understood that maybe that's what I'll have to do. Obviously, when she starts opening doors and coming out and she sees, hey, my mother's not actually sleeping in her bed. But I will cross that bridge when I come to it. But at the moment I am against co sleeping. It's cute, it's great, it's lovely, it's cuddly. I know that there'll be a time where she won't want to go sleep. And people say you'll miss out on that phase.

And it's.

But I haven't slept a night with her. Apart from being on flights where I've, you know, slept next to her. Those are the only times I've spent nights with her.

Right.

And I think it's all about what I think. I totally agree. Because it's not just that, okay, you're going out, maybe you're going out with your friends or you're going out at night or you're going out to dinner. You may just be at home, but you need your downtime. I mean, that's, that's your time to like I tell my son, I'm like, this is adult time now. I gave you all my whole evening, my morning, and I gave my work, my Day. So now it's time for me to hang with papa and it's time for us to get adult time. So whether we're home or we're going out, we're just gonna be, you know, doing our thing. And that is. That's time for you. Right? Like, you need to unwind. So I think communication is always, you know, the way. And they. They do understand that at the end of the day, you need your time, too, and, you know, that's your time to do things that they're not allowed to do, like see television, you know, for example.

Yeah, right. And I think it's all about parent child training, you know, like how you train them. They get used to it, and there's no right or wrong to it. I think it's a very personal thing that a parent decides to do with their child. You know, just like we toilet train them, I think, you know, you can actually train them for every single thing. If you're a working mother, if you need to step out, I think it's very important to let them know in advance that this is what is needed for you to be comfortable in my absence. So I think that's great, actually. And the next question that I have, I have so many questions. You're running out of time, but I'm picking the ones which are important. And so my next question that you've really spoken about, something that I truly resonate with is vocabulary. I feel it's so important. And I've been doing, you know, five new words with my son since he was three months old. And I'm seeing the benefit now because everything becomes very, very easy. If you can actually improve their vocabulary, reading becomes very faster. Because when you teach them phonics, when they blend, they know what the word is because they've already been introduced to the word before. So if you could just tell us about these vocabulary boosters that you have mentioned in your book.

So, again, I mean, very similarly, I realized a really long time ago that having this, you know, like a good lexicon effect, like words that you can kind of throw out to explain yourself and express yourself, is so important to build at a young age. And books are one big definite way of doing it. But apart from that, I do remember when I was growing up, I did a lot of my mom, who was my main literary inspiration and would constantly make me read new authors and new books, also used to maintain this good words and good phrases file with me. So anything that we found sounded really beautiful, we would write it down. So that's something I started. I mean, I've listed in the book 10, 12 different ones that we, that we do together. But this one is a big one because it also helps him to improve his writing skills, which is something that, you know, we're working on for a while now. So it just helps overall to know a word is to write a word is to read a word. So, you know, anything that he hears that he really likes the sound of and he asks me for the meaning, I say write it down, you never know when you could use it. So the good words and phrases thing was something that kind of stuck with me that my mom did with me as a child. But also I came across when I was researching for the book and I was researching on pretend play, I also came across a few studies that indicated that basically there was this very popular study that was carried out that indicated that when your child is say 2 to 3 years old, it's the quantity of words that are really impactful for them, but as they grow, it's the quality of words that really impact them. So from three to say, four and a half, really the quality and the exposure. So where you take them, parental expressions and words that we're using in our day to day vocabulary also impact them. And they'll ask you for the meaning and then they get to use it in pretend play. So I read this study and I realized it's not the quantity over time, it's really the quality. So the better the words and phrases that you can impart to your child through play or through books, you know, they will have a richer vocabulary. And definitely, I mean, I think a richer vocabulary helps you with everything. It builds your confidence, it gives you self reliance and just that thing of like, you know, being able to walk into a room and knowing that you can speak with 20 people or 50 people and you're not going to shy away with say your child playing with an older child. They're going to be able to comprehend what they're saying without shying away or not understanding what they're saying. If they have a good vocabulary at hand. There's just so many advantages of it that I feel like it's the gift that just keeps giving if you can just do that, you know, if I could do one thing for my child, it would be that.

Right? Beautifully put in. Actually, I also got introduced to this concept like, you know, when I became a mother and I read something very beautiful that the only way to upgrade your child's vocabulary is to upgrade your vocabulary because sometimes you Know, we are talking to them, you know, and we say that the food is so good. So. And that actually that article mentioned that instead of just saying that the food is so good, you could say like, you know, the food is so tasty, it's so yummy, it's so delicious. You know, every time you're talking about the same thing, you try and throw in a new word and it becomes very easy for them to actually learn those new words. So very beautiful. And I love how we resonate at so many levels, like, you know, pretend play, vocabulary.

And definitely, I think they're all also kind of interrelated. And in fact, even with vocabulary, there's actually research that shows a huge nexus with people who have a good vocabulary with higher educational goals and higher achievement rates. So all of them all.

And I love how we resonate at so many levels, like, you know, pretend play, vocabulary.

Like, you know, all of us as mothers, we're all guilty of it, where we're all like, we hear these things that, oh, this is going to be a brain boosting activity. Let's go, you know, let's buy it or let's do it or let's enroll our child in it. I mean, the best way is really to read and, or talk to them with, you know, with your higher vocabulary. And that's really, you know, how you can help your child in their. And definitely, I think they're all also kind of interrelated. And in fact, even with vocabulary, there's actually research that shows a huge nexus with people who have a good vocabulary with higher educational goals and higher achievement rates. So all of them are early, early years because from age 2 to 7 is a huge age of, you know, improving your cognitive processes. It's where the maximum brain development happens. So if you can do it at this age, it's. It's ideal.

Right? Right. Okay, so one question for soha, like, soha, this one could be a little, I don't know, difficult, but if you were to describe yourself as a mother in three words, what three words would you pick for yourself?

Good grief. Oh, God, I don't know. Diet.

Impatient, Coffee, Hungry, mom full of regrets, who, like, you know, all of us as mothers, we're all guilty of it, where we're all like, we hear these things that, oh, this is going to be a brain boosting activity. Let's go, you know, let's buy it or let's do it or let's enroll our chance.

Sometimes I'm like, oh, God, why did I yell at her? And I'm feeling so guilty and how can I make it up to her? You know, it's, it's, it's, it's very difficult to come up with three.

I mean the best way is really to read and, or talk to them with, you know, in, in with your higher vocabulary and that's really, you know, how you can help your child in there.

But I would say that I am trying my best is three words.

Wow.

I'm trying my best.

That's beautiful actually. And so this is the last one for you. Sugar. Like why do you think no parents should really get your book? How would they really benefit? Like, we've spoken about it in depth, but if you were to tell them in a few words, why should they really get this book and why? How is it really going to benefit them? How would you actually do it?

So again, I like, I think I only early years because from age 2 to 7 is a huge age of, you know, improving your cognitive processes. It's where the maximum brain development happens. So if you can do it at this age, it's, it's ideal.

Right, Right. Okay. So one question for soha, like soha, this one could be a little, I don't know, difficult, but if you were.

To describe yourself, think about the book differently. I really think about it like literally, you know, all of us are doing this anyway. All, all of us are doing pretend play. We're all reading to our kids. This a more structured way of kind of looking at it. So when you're looking at pretend as.

A mother in three words, what three words would you pick for yourself?

Here is an exhaustive list of everything that you need. Items are mentioned. You know, this.

Good grief. Oh God, I don't know. Diet.

Skills that you engender through each activity are mentioned and of course you do it as for your child's preference so you don't have to do every single activity in the book. It's listed as for preference. There could be some that resonate more with a girl. There could be some that resonate more with a boy. There could be some that resonate impatient coffee, hungry mom full of regret.

Sometimes I'm like, oh God, why did I yell at her? I'm feeling so guilty. And how can I make more with.

A 2 year old and some with a 7 year old? So it's just based on really wanting.

It up to her. You know, it's very difficult to come up with three. But I would say that I am trying my best is three words.

Wow.

My best. Right?

That's beautiful, actually. And so this is the last one for you, sugar. Like, why do you think no parents should really get your book? How would they really benefit? Like, we've spoken about it in depth, but if you were to tell them in a few words, why should they really get this book and why, how is it really going to benefit them? How would you actually do it?

So again, I think, I think about the book differently. I really think about it like literally all of us are doing this anyway. All of us are doing pretend play. We're all reading to our kids. This is just a more structured way of kind of looking at it. So when you're looking at pretend play, here is an exhaustive list of everything that you need. Items are mentioned, the skills that you engender through each activity are mentioned. And of course you do it as per your child's preference. So you don't have to do every single activity in the book. It's listed as for preference. There could be some that resonate more with a girl, there could be some that resonate more with a boy, There could be some that resonate more with a two year old and some with a seven year old. So it's just based on really wanting to spend time with your child but not having the ideal format of how to spend time with your child in the few hours that you do get in the day and just to make it count and kind of give them edutainment, you know, which is what I say, rather than just entertainment, rather, you know, you would want to introduce some school concepts, some, some more educational, maybe some vocabulary, maybe some math. You can introduce, you know, shape, sizes, anything pretty much through play. So that's the reason for the pretend play part of it. But the books list I feel like is segregated by topics. And I think that's one of the reasons that, you know, that every parent should get the book is because I put a lot of effort into curating this books list of 120 or 150 books that I do recommend reading. And again, they're just books because I feel like books can really help you through all situations in life. So there's certain books for, you know, for example, nannies coming in and out of our lives and we're adults and we know this, but there are books that teach your child about, you know, separation from a nanny. So listed some of those books. There's some books where could help your child through a bullying situation in school. There's some books which can explain cultural diversity or racial diversity or you Know, having a friend in a class who has two dads or two moms. There's so much that can be taught through books, which sometimes are difficult conversations for us, which we would have anyway, how babies are made. I mean, this is something that's a difficult conversation to have, but the book explains it really well and really subtly, but still well. So these are all things that you can, like, discuss with your child through a particular book, which I find makes a parent's job little easier. So when you read the book and then communicate about it. So that's, that's another reason I think that parents should buy the book.

And it's so true, because just today I was talking to Inaya and I was inspired by the book and we were just having a conversation where I was asking her questions and looking for her to contribute towards the answers and problem solving. So I said, you know what if there are two children who are fighting, how would you get them to stop fighting? And she said, you know, you could read them a story about it. And that's as much as she said, but I just understood. And because we do read often together, that they are that telling a story and the recall of that and the interest in that and the edutainment, again, values of that are very, very strong. So I'm really appreciative of the book of the book list that you've curated, Sugar, because I think that they are millions and billions of books, but finding the right book, because often you pick up a book and then you don't read it yourself and you're reading it to your child, and as you read it to your child, you realize that this is not the book that you want to read to your child yourself first, you know, and vet it like you should with any kind of TV show as well. So it's great to have a list that is already vetted and, you know, curated by you.

Yeah, exactly. So I think that that would be one of the reasons that a lot of parents would resonate with the book as well, because literally there's, there's, it's. It covers a lot of ground. So. And it took me two years to kind of read and curate. So I think that's one of the reasons, you know, in addition to pretend play and everything that it has to offer, that the book list is something that would definitely help, you know, any mom, even, even a mom who reads excessively, like Soha.

So even if I could add that this book should be read not just by mothers, but certainly by fathers as well. Who often don't know how to play with children. I think they do, but they just don't. They don't push themselves often. And they're like, oh, it's quite boring to play with a child. And, you know, they want to do the same thing again and again. And, you know, I'm not saying mothers do. Some mothers also struggle and some fathers struggle, some grandparents don't know, aunts and people who come and play with your child. It's helpful for, because it gives them scenarios to enact. So it's very, very useful.

Right, right. It's beautiful, actually, what you've done. And the curator, your curation of the entire list is amazing because now we don't just get your book. We get 100 books after your book. You know, we have this whole list of books that we have to get now. But it's really true that, you know, sometimes when you're reading the book, like Soha mentioned, like it's happened with me that I'm reading the book and then I'm reading something, I'm like, no, wait, I don't want to tell v it this. I'm going to change the story a little. And then I tell him my version of the story. So it's so important to actually get the right book. And so my final question for you is that if you had to leave a message for the audience who's watching this and they'll be watching this one message for the parents, what would that be?

Buy this book.

No, that's my message to the audience. You want a different one from you?

I would just say that, you know, it is the quality of time that you get to spend with your children. So, you know, make the time, put in the energy and make it fun, because these are really precious moments and they won't be, you know, everything is a phase and it's over before you know it. And then they grow up and they'll be playing with other people. So, you know, while you have them, play with them and, you know, enjoy that time.

Right, right. Beautiful. So basically, make a lot of memories with your kids and have fun for as long as it lasts. And yes, and this is one very, very deep concept that you've mentioned that make memories, because that is the only thing that's going to bring your child back to you because this world is, you know, full of distractions and there's so much happening. So if you really want your child to be your child, eventually you have to create a lot of memories. And I feel stories are the best way to do that, you know, create a lot of stories with your kids. So thank you so much, Sugar. Thank you so much, Soha, for your time. It was wonderful hosting you both and having this conversation. I truly loved it. And I want to thank Crossword Book Bookstore and Penguin India for organizing this event. And for all of you watching this and who really feel that the book resonates with your philosophy as a parent, we're going to put the link in the comment section below. So just click on the link and you can buy this book. You must get it. I've been in the parenting space for really long, and I absolutely love the book. I love that you've actually spoken about your experience as a mother, you know, because when you speak from your experience, experience, your experience can actually be, you know, common to so many other mothers. That's how I started, you know, I started writing about my experience and I realized what I was going through. So many mothers were going through the same, and that's when you. When they start resonating with you. So congratulations to you, Shaghar, for your book launch so much.

Thank you, Soha, for being a part of this.

Not at all. Congratulations on the book and I wish it lots of success and it's always fun to talk about, you know, children and parenting.

Yes.

All right. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.