Talking To Your Vet | Dr. Lynda Loudon

Hi, this is Rita Hogan, and welcome to the Dogs Are Individuals podcast. I'm a clinical canine herbalist, and I've been practicing for over 20 years. This podcast is all about your dog through an herbal lens. So let's get to it and dive right in.

Hey, everyone, this is Rita Hogan. I hope you are doing great. I am coming live from Long Island, New York. I'm at the lovely Dr. Linda Louden's home. So before we get into that, I just want to say thank you to my book tour sponsors, because without my book tour sponsors, I wouldn't be here. I've got an event tonight. I'm super excited about it. Linda's going to join me, but I'll tell you about that soon. But goodness gracious, they are lovely sponsors of my book tour, along with Earthbuddy Anacel Pawdaga, which is an awesome online store, Innovative pet lab, Fido's Bone Broth. I have formulated all of their formulas, so check those out. Feline essentials. Yeah. Two crazy cat ladies, Dr. Ruth Roberts Rawsome, which is in Plainville, Illinois. If you haven't been to their website, check it out and also feed Real Institute, Raw Pets in Tampa and Largo. And stay tuned for some exciting news about a little collab that I'm doing with Raw Pets. You're gonna love it. And Coco Therapy, the Queens of Coconut love em. And then a special thanks to my little wee sponsor, Farm Dog Naturals, and my pet Carnivore. Okay, let's get into it. We are talking today about talking to your vet. Oh, my God. Did you just stress out? Because I did. Yeah. I am my vet's worst nightmare. And you know what? I regret my choices every time I do it. I am not proud of my behavior. I'm not proud. Really, I'm not. And I need to get myself together. And what better person to tell us about this than the lovely Dr. Linda Louden? Linda has the most amazing. Should I say. Aura. I don't know. She has the most amazing feel to her. She's calm, but she's got cojones. I mean, she can just literally tell you what she thinks, but in a nice way. And you don't even know that you're getting schooled. And that's what I love about Linda. Okay? And I'm gonna let her tell you about some special things that she does before we finish the podcast. But we are here and we're gonna talk about. So what do you say to your vet so that you can actually have a conversation with them instead of being a pain in the butt like I am. And how do you deal with. Well, I think a layperson might say a pet, a vet's ego. But I was talking with Linda yesterday, and she really made me understand a lot of things about being a vet. How many years have you been a vet, Linda?

I've been a vet for over 24 years now.

24 years. And not only is she a vet, she is an emergency vet, and she does euthanasia and grieving care. And, you know, she's in. She goes to people's houses to put their dogs and cats down and other animals. And that is a special skill. So tell us about yourself, Linda.

Oh, and Linda's the first person I've.

Ever had on my podcast because she's here with me.

So this is exciting.

Go ahead, Linda.

Thank you, Rita. It's so great to be here, and it's been so wonderful spending some time with you and having you here in my home. Yeah. So I've been an ER vet for over 24 years. It's been a. Just an awesome career. Beautiful, beautiful opportunity. And I also have a home euthanasia business, because if I can't save them, I really want to make sure their transition is just as peaceful as possible. It's really, really important to me. So. Yeah, and I also have my online businesses, my Dog Mom Society membership and Canine Experts Academy, because I love to empower other women in business around holistic care for their dogs.

And, well, you know, because as my listeners know, I need to say stuff like when I think it. How can you just quickly give us the information? So you have your Canine Experts Academy. Just tell them, you know, a couple sentences about that and how to get ahold of you on that one.

Yeah, Canine Experts Academy. And I also have my launchpad, which is just a mini of the Canine Experts Academy. That is where I really help anyone who has knowledge they want to share with the world. They want to change the way dogs are cared for. And I show you how to create an online business around it so you can make it a career. And so you can go to Dr. Loud and K9, the letter K and the number9.com and you can find out about Canine Experts Academy and the Dog Mom Society, which is my membership. And that's where I support Dog Guardians, really. And it's really a women's group because we also do women's health because I want to support the women who love the dogs as much as we support the dogs they love.

And every now and then, I Heard that Rita Hogan makes an appearance.

Yeah, she's awesome. I would love her.

Okay, Linda, tell us. Okay, so, so many people get completely and utterly stressed out about going to their vet. Even if they have a nice vet like that, they get along, they still get stressed out. So.

Water.

I, you know, I don't want to be cliche and say you're top 10, but just talk about that because I know we were sitting in the car and you were tell. Telling me about, you know, we were kind of going through how we can reword things. Like when you bring in an article or you bring a book to a vet and understanding how much time and effort vets are put into their. Well, their craft, their learning, their medical license. So can you speak about that?

Yeah. You know, it's all about approach and wording. Right. And when I. And I totally get the feeling, because I was at my pediatrician with my son this morning and I was nervous walking in there because I was like, I have to decline all these vaccines. I have to tell her I do titers and I have to tell her he doesn't drink milk and she's going to give me trouble about all of it. And so I totally get it. But I also get the other side. I get the being the vet who's worked really hard to get where we are and when we say things like, you know, well, I researched this, or I googled this, and people say, why do vets get their backs up on that? Well, I find it really almost disrespectful, you know, when we've worked so hard to learn and have the experience we have to dedicate our lives to saving animals and then we're compared to a Google search, it really can deflate us. And so it's just the way that you can approach it. Maybe instead of saying, I did some research saying, oh, I hear what you're saying, I understand why that might be. What's going on? Is there a possibility? I just was thinking, could it be this? Or you and I were talking about how important the guardian's input is and their observation that is invaluable and we need that. So how you share that is important. You know, if I go in and I say, oh, I do my exam and I say, I think it's back pain. But your intuition is, my dog has abdominal pain. I want to know that. But there's a way to say it, right? There's a way to say it, be like, no, it's not back pain. Well, you're going to annoy me if you just say it that way. Right. But if you come to me and you say, you know, okay, so you think back pain, I get that. Can I share some other symptoms that he's had that might also, you know, you might need to know he did vomit a couple of times last week and he did go off his food and maybe had some loose stool. Things that might make me say, okay, maybe this is abdominal. So that's really, really important information for your veterinarian to have. And that could change the way that your dog is treated and the diagnostics that are chosen. But the approach is so important so that we don't feel that we have. That we are dismissed. Because no one wants to be dismissed, especially when we're trying to help somebody.

No, I mean, you know, and what I love about you, Linda, is that, well, I'm here at her house with, she has two great big dogs. One's a German shepherd named Zane, the other one is named Parker, and he is a big dope of a golden retriever. And I see you interact with your dogs and you're so loving and caring and you really let them be self expressive, you know, with boundaries. But I love the way you interact with your dogs. Well, I love your dogs. And, oh, there's also a turtle and a bunny and some freshwater fish that I could stare at all day. But bun, Bun, the fun bun, oh my God, he's so fluffy and cute and the turt is just adorable. But I digress. So I think that you really have that experience of I sometimes have to take my vet to my colleagues. Right. I know that you schooled your groomer today about wanting to use a certain soap, but it's all the same thing. Speaking up and being an advocate for your dog. Like today, Linda had to school her groomer who came up in the van because the groomer doesn't like 4 Legger shampoo. Well, as you know here on the podcast, we love 4Legger shampoo. Linda loves 4Legger shampoo. You use the neem, right? Yeah. And we know that it's not gonna do anything nasty to our dogs.

And so she had to be very.

Firm and nice at the same time, which is her superpower. Superpower, folks. And just said, you know what, I get that you feel that way, and I understand that this is the soap you wanna use, but unfortunately, you know, you're grooming my dog and this is a soap I want to use. Right. And she gave her all the reasons and the rest is history. But it's the same thing about going to the vet. Like, you know, how do you give your vet the forever dog book without being disrespectful? How would that. How would you handle that? Linda, I.

And you know, every vet is going to be different, right? But if someone came to me, I think timing is really important, right? Like, you don't want to hand me a book while we're in the middle of a conversation and you just told me I was wrong about what I think is going on with your dog. I might not be so thrilled about receiving a book. For me to learn more, I think giving the book to a receptionist is a great idea because the receptionist would be more open to being like, oh, you know, you know, this is a book I'm really loving. Maybe the staff would love this. And that's going to circulate around the clinic and it's going to get to the vet. So that might be a nicer, easier route for everybody. And, you know, if you're building. I would build the relationship with the vet so that there's some comfort there. Not I wouldn't hand a book to them on your first visit. I would build that relationship, get to know each other a little bit and, you know, self. What is that called? You know, when you're just like, make fun of yourself. I think that's always really good. What's the word for that?

I don't know.

Shoot. But anyway, you guys know what I mean. But if you're like, you know, I'm crazy about using as much natural things as I can, you know, I found this amazing book. Would you be interested? Because I actually had got an extra copy when I ordered it. Would you. Would you want it? Something like that, where you're not being like, here, take this book. You need it.

Yeah. And I think it's always. I think it's always important to pay compliments, you know, like, you know, try to, try to focus on what your vet is, is good at. And if you can't come up with any answers and you need, then you need a new vet, right? If you don't have any compliments, like, you need a new vet, that's not going to go over well. If you can't think of anything good about your vet, like, you know, like, I worked with Dr. Kevin Brummett. He is a allopathic vet in Mount Juliet, Tennessee. I love him so much that he's one of the things I miss about not being in Tennessee, which, you know, is weird. But, you know, he was straight up allopathic but open, you know, and that.

Is a great phrase. Are you open?

Yeah. Are you open when you meet them?

Are you open to natural alternatives? Are you open to talking about whole foods instead of kibble? That's a really great lead in and a great phrase to use when you're getting to know your vet.

And, you know, the biggest thing is getting to know. Don't do it on the first visit, maybe not the second or third, but as you get to know this person, you know, and you can see how that you interact with each other, you might say, hey, are you open? And, you know, some of the things that I always say to people, not just vets, but, like, people I get to know, like, are you a science person? I mean, do you like the science? Because this is a book that has a ton of science. You know, they have an entire website dedicated to the science.

Like, you know, or are you as crazy about science as I am? Or obviously you're as crazy about science because you've made a career of it.

There you go.

You know, things like that. Yeah. And in giving the compliments, they're well deserved. Right? If you walk into my ER and I've got a full waiting room, every room is packed when I come in and I. If I'm, you know, made you wait a little bit, my first thing would be, I'm so sorry for, for your weight, you know, I want you to know you're. You're important to me. And, and let's give you the attention you need. Say, wow, you know, I see your waiting room is so full. You've got a really important job here or you're doing amazing. Don't worry about it. Things like that. Just notice how hard the vet is working and just say something about it. It makes us feel better that we're seen. Everybody wants to be seen.

Yeah, everyone wants to be seen and heard. And that also means your vet and suicide rates are huge in veterinary medicine.

Huge.

The stress alone, like, oh, my God, I can't even hardly deal when Linda tells me she's got two euthanasia appointments on Saturday. I wanted to go and sit and cry in my room. I mean, it takes a special. In my opinion, it takes a special person to be a vet in the first place. Someone who can deal with a lot of pressure and a lot of sadness, so much sickness. And always remember that vets are. Correct me if I'm wrong, Linda. Vets are sort of bound to tell you the worst case scenario. Like, you gotta remember that that's their job because that's what they see. They see. I mean, you don't go to the vet when you're not worried about your dog's constipated for a day. You go to the vet when your dog can't poop for three, four days, you know, and things are starting to go downhill. I wish people went to the vet more often for preventative things. And we all wish that veterinary medicine would move towards both emergency medicine and preventative medicine, but that's not where we're at right now. So usually you go to the emergency vet for an emergency and take from.

Your vet what you need at that moment. Like for my pediatrician this morning, I have to go in with the mindset is my child needs a yearly exam for school and I have to get that paperwork done. And that is all I'm going in there to do. I'm not going in there to change that pediatrician's mind about vaccines. I might plant a seed just by the way I handle it, but I'm not going in there to change her views about all, get her all over to my side of things. I'm just going in because this pediatrician is needed for a certain thing. And your vet, your ER vet is there to save your dog's life, to give them what they need in the moment, take what you need and then add what you want to it, right? And work together and let your vet know. That's an important one, too. Let your vet know that you want to be part of. Of it. You know, say, I really want to be part of the decision making for my pet's health care. Can you include me on anything?

Everything?

Because it is important to me. I. You mean so much to me. I. I really want to be part of it. And that's important, especially when you're in an ER and they want to take them into the back or they're hospitalized. I really want to know before any new medications are added, I want to know what the treatments are. I want to be part of the conversation.

And I really love that you said that, Linda, because being part of the conversation is so important. And you have someone that is trying to save lives, that is going 100 miles an hour, trying to make the best choices that they can. When you're at an emergency vet or even a regular vet where you've got a full, you know, you got a full waiting area, right? I mean, everyone's waiting. They all want a piece of you. So I think it's really important to make clear, concise communications to your vet and make sure they're listening to you. Like, make sure that you're establishing eye contact. They hear you, and you can even ask a question. Does that make sense to you? And so they say yes back. And did you hear that? I said, I don't want any vaccines. Or if you feel they need something, please ask me first. Like, I had a pug named Finbar. I brought him in for a dental. He was 17 at the time. And, you know, sometimes if you give antibiotics to an old dog, they don't last more than a year. I have found this to be consistently true over the last 20 years. And I did not make myself clear or known of what my wishes were. I brought him in for three teeth. And they're pug teeth. We all know they're ganked, right? He's 17. He pulled 16 teeth without even a conversation. But I never asked him to call me. But I just thought, logically he would, since we were going in for the two teeth that were keeping him from. Or two or three teeth that were keeping him from eating, the rest looked like. They looked terrible. He was 17 and he's a pug. So, like. But he decided to take all of them and give him a shot of antibiotics without telling me. And I literally, I would have taken the antibiotics home and prepared my dog's body for them and used them if he needed it. Right. I have ways to deal with that on my own, from my own experience. But he was dead within the year he died. He came home and his health just went right down the kisser. I mean, it was. But it was such an experience, and yet he was 17. I get that he was at the end of the funnel. I think he could have made it to 20. But, you know, he made it to almost his 18th birthday. But at the time, I wanted to blame the vet. And it wasn't the vet's fault. It was mine, right? I just logically, you know, in my head and my ego, right, Going, well, how could he not think that? Like, how could he pull 16 teeth? How could he do this? And how could he do that? And I got really mad at him and yelled. And I wasn't proud of my behavior, Linda. Not proud. I was afraid, right? And I got fearful and I went, but talking to you and looking back in retrospect, and now I'm not that person at the vet anymore. But it is so important to really, even if you give them a written document, like, to follow it up, to be like, I need approval on all antibiotic use. I need approval on all vaccines. I need approval on whatever, you know, and you guys can have a conversation about it.

Yeah. And I will tell you, from being a vet, if I have a client who comes in, asks no questions, is like, just take the best care of my dog. I'm less likely to give that call because I feel like they have all full trust in me, and any decision I make, they've kind of, like, let me take over.

Yeah, Right.

And there are those clients. They don't want to make any of the decisions. They want me to take the reins, and so I will.

Yeah, Right.

But if someone comes in and they ask me the questions, they say, I don't want antibiotics. I'm going to call them for every single thing I do. Right. So if that's who you want to be as your guardian's advocate, then make sure that that's who you show up as.

Yeah. And I think that that's. That's really good advice. And, you know, every single dog, and I think bunny, turtle and cat and whatever horse, whatever animal we have. Right. We learn so many things, and, you know, it's definitely at their expense. But we can only do what we have the knowledge to do. We can't go back in time and fix these things that we might think are wrong. I don't have any guilt or anything over, you know, Finbar. I think I have responsibility. You know, like, I have a responsibility to him and to everyone else that I come in contact with to be responsible for my behavior, because I'm the only one that's, you know, it's my behavior. Right. And I should have made myself clear. And instead, I literally did take it out on him. Like, I was not a good person that day. Right. And I can look back and go, I was really afraid of what was going to happen to Finbar. In my head, it was three teeth. You know, he showed me the teeth. They were awful. Right. But they weren't as awful as the three. And, like, even if you had at.

Least had that conversation and been part of the decision, you may have felt better about it. Right. If he had convinced you and said, these are the reasons I think the 16 should come out, maybe you would have said no, maybe you would have been convinced, but you've been. You would have been part of the decision making, and I think that would have made a big difference for you instead of the shock of what happened.

Yeah. So I think we all can learn from. Well, definitely your expertise, but what are some other things that, while we have you in the hot seat. What are some other things that you'd like as a vet, you'd like people to know or to understand?

I would say that I want you to be prepared. I think preparation is key and we talked about, you know, I really want to come up with some scripts for clients so for guardians so that they'll have those to go in with which I'm working on. But be prepared, be prepared for that emergency that's going to show up that you know unexpectedly because you don't want to walk into an ER clinic or into your regular vet with a problem and have no idea how you're going to handle yourself or what you want and don't want for your dog or your cat or your bunny, whatever pet you have. Know what are your absolute nos? I don't want these vaccines. I don't want this. This is not. And I'm just saying I don't want, I wouldn't use those terms when I'm conversing with the vet. Have, have a script that you're going to use to express that in a way that's not going to cause the vet to feel defensive.

Yeah, I'm not comfortable. Maybe what would be something I would.

Say, you know, I choose to only give vaccines that are absolutely necessary and that if they don't get them could end up with me losing my pet, My pet's life would be in danger. I don't do these other vaccines and get the information. Why wouldn't you give a Lyme. Get the information and know why. Know that it's a sucky vaccine and that it. That's not on the human market for a reason. Right? Yeah. Read my blog on every vaccine of why I wouldn't do those individual non essential vaccines. So be armed with that knowledge so that you don't feel that you're just combative because you just don't want it. Have a reason. And the another great reason for you to do that is so that when you share that with your vet, maybe that will plant a seed, maybe they will look up some of the things that you're mentioning instead of just saying I absolutely don't want it. But you have to decide how you're most comfortable. Right. But just coming, having a way around it instead of saying I don't want this, I want this, I don't want this. Like my husband's a general practitioner and he gets a lot of that where they'll come in with a list like don't do this in big, you know, capital letters and that Actually does trigger them, you know, when they're. They're. They talk to you like you're a bit of an idiot, and don't do this. Do this. We're not there to take an order. Right. It's a service. So. But you are absolutely and should be part of the conversation. So make it a conversation and not an order would be my. My biggest recommendation.

So. A little spoonful of sugar goes a long way.

It really does.

Versus the vinegar.

It really does.

Which is acidic and corrosive.

Right. It's about really getting good at those conversations. And I've used it for me, you know, when I go into the pediatrician, I leave those conversations. Said this morning, could I have done better? Could I have maybe not mentioned that? Because I watch her body language, and I watched what things she was fine with me saying, and I watched what she wasn't. I watched her tense or turn away from me when I mentioned functional medicine. So I was like, all right, I won't mention functional medicine again.

Or maybe you might. I mean, you never know, you know, but find a different way that maybe she doesn't turn away from you anymore. I mean, I think the biggest thing. I think the biggest thing, Linda, that you brought to the table, if we could pick one word, is conversation. Right? This is a conversation. Right. It is a service. And, you know, there are a few vets out there that are not open to anything. Right. And again, it's not your vet. It's not your vet. And I just want to say real quickly is that, you know, if you have to drive two or three hours for a good vet, then do it. I mean, I live in Olympia, Washington. There are some good vets in Seattle, but there's one vet that I love. Her name's Dr. Finn, and she is two and a half hours from my house. Okay, I get in the car, I put on the tunes, we go. I don't bring my dog to the vet very often, but it's important to me until I find someone that's near Olympia. I had someone, they retired. I'm gonna drive, and I have my emergency vet, who I love my emergency vet staff. An emergency vet is important. I happen to go to the emergency vet quite often, but I love my emergency vet. I love my regular vet. But don't be afraid to drive. I hear people saying, oh, my God, it's 40 minutes away.

Yeah, I drive to an hour. My pediatrician just retired, but I would drive an hour to her for my boys, because I trusted her. It's worth it. It's worth that leaving and feeling confident.

Yeah. So don't be afraid to drive. Well, I absolutely love this conversation, Linda, because it's really important, because we all do get a little verklempt when we go to the vet. Now, a couple of things. Rescue, remedy, adored beast, go to shove it in your mouth. It's gonna help you a lot to calm that nervous system down so that you aren't on the defensive. Right. Cause when we're afraid, we get onto the defensive. If I could have had a recording about my horrible behavior. Horrible behavior a long time ago with the man at Steamboat Island. I think it was Steamboat island vet and Finbar and I. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm not proud of my actions. However, I have learned from my actions, and I think that's most important. And, you know, I think it's those things that change us or that we might have some regret are the. They really propel us forward in our human evolution. And being kind, because I think being kind is. Is. There's no excuse for not being kind, in my opinion. And we need to have more empathy for the other side of the table. If we are asking for empathy, I think we need to have more empathy. So awesome. Linda and I are going to be doing an event tonight together here on Long island, but we're also gonna be Speaking together at Dr. Ruth Roberts conference in Kansas City.

Yeah, it's gonna be fun.

Yeah. That's in September, right?

Yes.

Yeah. So that's. We'll have more information pretty soon. I do want to mention. I promised you guys that I would mention a little bit about Green juju's new probiotic line and that we would go over them one at a time. So I just wanna go over one of the ones that I am totally excited about, and that is called Farm. Okay. The reason why I'm excited about it is because dairy in general can be very dampening. Right. It can add more damp, and a lot of probiotics can add damp when they are in raw milk form. So what I love about the farm product from Green Juju, it's fermented raw milk, but it's in a different medium. Okay. So you can get all the benefits of. Of dairy. Probiotics without the dairy. I'm like, come on. Yeah. Billy Hochman was telling me all about this because we are. We do book tour events together throughout the country. Here we got one coming up in. I think it's like. I think it's later this week. Oh, my God. I think it is. And he Just blows my mind with his passion for little bacteria, right? He loves it. And so the farm one is made from fermented raw milk and it supports digestion and immune function and gut health. And I am actually going to try these, the probiotics myself. One I'm going to see, hey, do they increase histamine? Because histamine producing probiotics have a negative effect on me sometimes. So I'm going to check that out. But you know, there's 2.5 billion CFUs in this per serving, right? And over 3,000 plus species. And the other medium is artichoke fiber. So it's not something gross. Right. When I say in another medium, artichoke fiber. Very excited about that. So it comes in a little white container. It's got a little scoop. Now, I'm gonna tell you that I would try a quarter or even an eighth of a scoop before you and work your way up to dosage and give it a try. And then, you know, right into the podcast. Let me know what you feel about it because I know, you know that I have been bonkers about their fermented mushroom product. I'm excited to get this in rotation because remember, we need to rotate, rotate, rotate. But what's really cool about these specific products along with the mushroom probiotic, is that with each batch now they have a little batch number on the, on the the container. And with each new batch, you're going to have a different set of species. I mean, how cool is that? I love that. And I love it about the mushroom probiotic, because mushroom probiotic is so good, like tear staining and different types of, I would say, leaky gut. In general, it helps increase IGA and glycocalyx, and I absolutely can get behind that. So I'm excited to try these, but this one is farm. And on the next podcast, we will talk about their next one, which is soil. But I'll give you some feedback as I try it out. And my other sponsor for this particular podcast is Real Mushrooms. Now, people have been asking, when is Daily Dog going to be back out? It's supposed to be back out within the next two weeks, so we will be stocking it again@canineherbalist.com and then our new sponsor, Pug and Hound, also I believe stocks the Daily Dog. You can ask Krista at her store, but we will be going over that again and checking that out, too. Special thanks to Real Mushrooms and Green Juju, sponsors of today's podcast.

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