The Security Guy and CIA Spy PodBroadcast

And welcome to the Security Guy and CIA Spy Pod broadcast. I am Robert Siciliano, and this is Peter Wormka from Orlando.

How are you doing, Robert?

Hey buddy, I'm doing pretty good. How about yourself?

I'm doing well, actually. I feel safe because I'm outside of that path of the eclipse today and all the crazy people that are following it. Not crazy people, but you know what I mean. So I think I'm going to be pretty safe, and maybe I'll just see them news. I'll see the same image on the news that a lot of people are going to see live.

That's a funny observation. Yeah. So as a matter of fact, my Uh, one of my business partners, he's heading 4 hours to Vermont, uh, to see it. My dad is heading 4 hours to Maine to see it.

I mean, I hear people that are coming from overseas, you know, from Europe and other countries also specifically to see it. That's the main reason why they're coming now.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, like, the last one was 2017. It wasn't really near me, so I didn't even bother. Uh, this year actually, 90— it's gonna be 93% covered between like 2-something and 4-something in the Boston area. So I do have my glasses, uh, that I bought in 2017, and I do intend on poking my head outside to take a look.

Well, I hope it's worth it. I think we're gonna get like 60% here in Florida.

Yeah, yeah, so it'll dim the lights a little bit. So, uh, tell me, what have you been up to? How's business?

Well, actually pretty good. I mean, I think, yeah, since we last spoke, I was in Brazil, and a lot of interest in Brazil. I actually came out last year, as you're aware, with my first book, Confessions of a CIA Spy: The Art of Human Hacking. It came out in Spanish and Portuguese, and that's really been fruitful because I'm able to take the book to these two, you know, Spanish-speaking countries, or in case Brazil, Portuguese, and people people, people love it, you know. And so that's been useful. I'm going to do more, uh, return trips to Brazil. Hopefully I'm going to be traveling to Mexico in the very near future. And there's a lot of domestic requirements I'm having also that are— seem to be picking up for conferences and trainings. How about you?

I just actually had an ask, uh, via a speakers bureau to do a program for ISC in, uh, Brazil myself.

Really?

Yeah, yeah. Uh, and I've spoke in, um, Bogotá Columbia, probably about maybe 10, 12 years ago at this point. The gig's not, you know, in stone yet. I'm probably one of like 10 speakers that are being considered. And, you know, I know that like the majority of the audience is going to be on a headset and it's going to be translated while I'm presenting. And, you know, like, awesome. Like, I hope I get the gig and all. I just wonder, like, don't they have Spanish-speaking experts in Brazil? You know, like, I, I would— yeah, go ahead.

They do, but there is an appreciation for people that have expertise that come from outside of Brazil as well. I mean, they seem to have the thirst for this type of, uh, you know, contact. I, I was— even when I was down in Brazil, I even had the press, they wanted to interview me. So what, what we can provide is not only that expertise, which some of the Brazilians of course will have, but also that particular, um, optic from outside of Brazil, you know, regarding what are the things that we're dealing with in the United States that maybe they're not dealing with yet or coming, you know, coming their way. And, and in turn, us going down there, there's a lot of things that we can learn from the Brazilians because they've had to deal with some of these things, uh, for a long time yet, which are just beginning to hit us here, such as the virtual kidnappings. Okay, one example that's been going on for for a long, long, long time in Brazil, and it's just starting to hit us here in the United States.

Right, right. How is your business, uh, post-COVID versus pre-COVID?

Well, there's a good story and a bad story. I guess the good story is that it's starting to pick up, uh, a lot better now compared to the year before, let's say, the year before that. But it's still far from pre-COVID in the sense of there's not as many requirements for people to come in as a speaker, as a keynote speaker, or even just to provide training. It seems like so much of it has converted over to virtual. And you know, even virtual prior to COVID, most of the virtual presentations, you had to pay a fee if you wanted to attend the virtual. But now almost all the virtual presentations are free. And so it's just kind of like— I was thinking about this earlier this morning. How much do people pay for education versus how much do they pay for entertainment? I think it's incredible how much more we pay for entertainment and how much we want to learn and how we value education at all levels, including security awareness. To me, it's kind of sad. But yeah, I feel like it's real, it's not where it, it needs to be.

Yeah. So, so when you say virtual, I think you also might mean e-learning too, like digital pre-recorded.

Yeah, I do, I do. But I guess what I, what I'm dealing with mostly these days is the virtual versus the pre-record. I, I tried to do the pre-recorded before COVID and I was, you know, it was, there's a market, there's definitely a market for it, but it's a lot of work, uh, and things keep on evolving so much, especially in our industry, that you constantly have to start updating these things. And so, yeah, I've been looking more at the virtual.

Yeah. So, so what I have noticed is that my speaking business has dropped probably about 40% since COVID Uh, without a doubt, over the past year or two, it's definitely picked up, uh, prior to '22, '23, and so forth. '24, you know, I've booked a lot of business in January, February, March. But without a doubt, free as it pertains to companies that offer phishing simulation and other products and services offer free e-learning as a loss leader to get butts in seats for their phishing simulation. And I think what's happening is post-COVID security awareness managers are just utilizing free e-learning and maybe phishing simulation as a form of compliance. Clients just to check the box so that they appear as if they are doing enough. And that's really all they're doing is good enough. And I don't really think there's a lot of, of change in behavior taking place with simply just e-learning and phishing simulation by itself.

That's right, because this, this training is not really, not really leading people far enough into critical thinking. It's sort of like, what's the threat of today? Oh, learn that someone might call you trying to get you to XYZ. Okay, I'm ready for that. And but they don't, they don't really get to the, the actual, you know, the, the foundation of these types of scams and how to, you know, how do you analyze them, how do you think about them, how do you react to them. They don't really train that.

Yeah. And the interaction between a facilitator or presenter, somebody like you and I in the audience itself, that interaction, that Q&A, that going back and forth, those questions that audience members ask and the response that the facilitator provides, and then the questions in response to that facilitator's answer. I think that's where all that critical thinking, abstract thinking is all fleshed out. That you really can't get that in an e-learning presentation that's just not interactive. It's just coming at you, whereas with the live program, you're actually getting like that back and forth that you really need to kind of flesh out various ideas and scenarios.

Well, I agree. And I mean, there's probably not all listeners can appreciate that, but if they can just imagine being in the situation of it being an instructor, right? And now you're, you're taken out of the classroom and you just dealing with the computer screen and you don't really even see the people typically who are listening to you. You don't know how many are there. You might know if the software tells you, but you don't know if they're, you know, how many are there, if they're looking at you, if they're looking puzzled, if they're looking at their cell phones while they may be listening to you. You don't see them and you might end up the presentation and maybe with only a question or two. And from a sense of being someone who likes to facilitate, who likes to educate people. It's, it's, I mean, you can make, we still make money doing it, but it's just not the same, you know.

Yeah. So I, I, for those who, who you are watching, you know, now or afterwards, once the video is provided, you know, look at, there is no substitute for live, on-stage, in-your-face learning. Uh, so if you are a check-the-box compliance, uh, security awareness manager, fine. But if you want more, really get the job done, change behavior, call me and Peter.

Okay, here you go.

All right, so Peter, uh, lots going on. Uh, let's talk about right here we have, uh, Stars and Stripes, which is, uh, the U.S. government's, um, military magazine. Cyber threat, uh, to U.S. power grids escalating as election approaches. Uh, we've long known Russia and China and others U.S. power grids are facing heightened risks of cyber and physical attacks as election nears, according to the nation's top reliability regulator. Uh, the increased threats come from state-backed— China, you know, uh, Russia— hackers, as well as the type of physical assault that happened at North Carolina substations late in 2022, if you remember that one. Uh, it goes on to say that, um, Jim Robb, chief executive of North American Electric Reliability Corporation, which sets the standards, we are anticipating a fairly active year on the security front, Rob said, at an Electric Power Supply Association conference in Washington on Tuesday. So Peter, what are your thoughts here?

Well, first of all, I feel like that's— that the title of this presentation is a bit— of this article is a bit misleading. I don't see really much of a correlation between this increased threat and the fact that we have U.S. elections coming up. I think it's more— I mean, this has been going on for a long time, that this has been an increasing threat Throughout the last several years, there's been a lot of probing done by these state actors, like by Iran and China, Russia, et cetera. There are plans on the shelf for when the time comes to actually attack these particular installations, to knock out our critical infrastructure, and the electricity is one of the big, big parts here. So I think probably to measure about the increasing threat would be more aligned with taking a look at what are the geopolitical events that are happening. And is it possible that the United States is getting more and more sucked into some of these, such as, you know, the escalation between Russia and Ukraine, and potentially, you know, the escalation, uh, in Gaza, right? So this is when, when, when there is going to be potentially a, let's say, an attack, it's going to be tied to something specific, a retaliation or part of a, uh, you know, to try to, try to knock us out of these sort of, uh, infrastructure that we have. I don't think the U.S. election one way or another is going to really impact, uh, our concern that something's going to happen regarding— this is just my opinion, right— that something could happen regarding the election. I could be wrong.

So I'm going to agree with you to a point. I agree with everything you said. I'm going to add to— I think that the spin on this, the reason why it's saying, uh, that the threat to U.S. power grid's escalating as election— as the election approaches is that China and, uh, Russia, I think, would love nothing more than to have Trump as president. And so by, uh, compromising our electric grid, electrical grid, to any degree, if anybody in this country is inconvenienced in any way and they can point the finger towards Biden And that means they vote in Trump. I think that's the motivation behind, uh, hacking the grid prior to the election.

Well, another question would be, if they hack the grid right at the election, is that going to— is that going to disrupt individuals being able to vote? And can it skew— right, can it skew the results? I don't know.

That is another possibility. Chaos, right?

Yeah.

All right, well, that said, Um, one thing that I've always said, you have to have a backup supply of water, you have to have a backup supply of food, because if the grid goes down for any period of time, that ultimately means that you may not get clean water or running water for that matter. It may, it may mean that all the food in your fridge spoils. It might mean that the supermarket shuts down because, A, they don't have electricity to cool the food, never mind lights to allow you to shop, and never mind cash registers to process credit cards and so forth. Okay, so you need to have a backup of food and water, and I think power too. I'm a big fan of dual fuel generators. And, you know, Peter, you being in Florida, which is like, you know, the epicenter of, you know, some of the most devastating hurricanes we've ever had, um, I, you know, I think that this is like a necessary tool Um, and I— dual fuel means it works off of gasoline and propane. Now I have a dual fuel generator, uh, and I have it plugged so wired such that I can— I have a switch on my electrical panel and it'll power up hallway lights, all of my kitchen, my mechanical room, and my office. So I have internet, I have heat and hot water, uh, even like air conditioning if I needed it, and also my refrigerator and my microwave and my stove and the lights of the kitchen. Uh, and so, you know, that dual fuel generator, I have never actually put gasoline in it. It primarily works off of propane because gasoline spoils like vinegar, uh, whereas propane lasts forever. And at any given point in time, I have 4 to 6 20-pound propane tanks ready to go.

That's awesome. I think there's some people out there though that have gotten solar panels, including myself, within the last few years, and there's a tendency— I think a lot of people think, well, if electricity goes out, I'm still going to have my power coming through the solar panels. But that's not the case. That's usually— unless you have a, a battery that's being charged in your home through the use of the solar power, it is not going to— you know, if you don't have that battery When the power goes out, the solar power is not going to really do anything for you.

Yep. And for those of you who might consider a dual fuel generator, this Westinghouse at 6,500 watts for $580 is a bargain. That's a great, great price for that with free delivery. Are you kidding me? You know, like, you should buy 2 of those. Like, that's an excellent, excellent product. Westinghouse is a good brand, and that's a great deal. Just saying. Okay. All right, next. Uh, new security footage shows Texas man successfully sneaking onto plane. Okay, Peter, I thought this one— I just like saw this and was like, wow, you know, like it's, it's not like crazy that something like this would happen. It just is a bit unnerving. And you know, you see this guy right here, 26-year-old, is captured photographing the boarding paths of fellow travelers. That's the guy right here. That's the boarding pass. That's the guy. He was actually— you know, you can see the phone in his hand, right? Uh, and look at— I think what happened was here is the guy got through TSA security. Right now, pretty much at most airports, all you need is your driver's license or passport. And once— you don't even need a boarding pass. Once your driver's license or passport is scanned at TSA then you get through. And they know based on your driver's license or, um, passport that you are flying that day. Okay. And it seems what happened was is this guy got through security but he missed his flight. And so he, instead of taking like the later flight that might have cost him some money, uh, through the airline in which he was already traveling he decided to get smart and snuck on a plane using somebody else's boarding pass that he photographed. And if you read the article, he actually had, uh, photographed a bunch of boarding passes, like, like that. They're saying like 4 to 6 of them. And it was like a, a minor underage girl whose boarding pass he successfully got on the plane with.

Yeah, I mean, think about it, uh, And prior to— I mean, several years ago, a lot of the aircraft had, had vacant, you know, they had extra seats, they had vacant seats. So it wouldn't be that hard for someone just to take an empty seat and sit there and not get questioned. But these days, almost all the planes are so full that if you don't have a seat, you might not be able to find anyone that's available. I thought he had also snuck through TSA trying, you know, doing the same thing, which I was like, how could he have done? I mean, I, I thought there was a correlation between traveling and actually your, your documents, and it would have been impossible. But, uh, if that's, that's how he did it, I can see that that is a vulnerability, right?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure based on the research I did that he had a functional boarding pass but missed the actual flight, and it was that functional boarding pass that facilitated him getting actually through TSA.

Well, now he's a felon. It's a felony.

It's a felony, and he's never going to get TSA Pre.

That's right, that's right.

Yeah, but just, you know, know that this is a thing. And, uh, you know, like, you see suspicious behavior. In this case, the guy was hanging out in the bathroom, and, uh, the flight attendant's like, what are you doing in there? And when they actually checked his boarding pass, they see an underage girl in his seat, and they're like, this is not right. So the flight attendants had a handle on it. But, you know, like, things happen, man. It's just like crazy is everywhere, you know.

You know what, I want to bring up, uh, something here. How safe do you feel the fact that people are using TSA Pre? I mean, does that mean that everybody that's there, they never have had committed a criminal offense, I suppose? But does it mean that they might not do— commit a criminal offense in the future, you know?

Yeah, so I know that, um, that TSA Pre— I'm approved for TSA Pre and Global Traveler, and I had to actually sit down for an interview for Global Traveler at the airport. And I do know that your Global Traveler/TSA Pre number, that information is in the system. And whether or not you— if you ever are convicted of any type of a felony, during the time in which you are, um, TSA Pre. I don't know that, uh, the airlines or TSA or the federal government would actually cross-reference that data with your TSA Pre. I don't know that. I do— I would consider though, uh, in the future, should your TSA Pre be renewed I would imagine that they're going to cross-reference that with, uh, federal databases. Because at this point, I know that like you can't just go out and buy a firearm without there being a, um, a federal check. Uh, and I don't know if, if that same federal check, uh, is connected to getting TSA Pre. I don't know that, but that is a good question because not every—

I mean, a lot of times there's, you know, if someone does something, uh, you know, I'm massive shooting or does something that's really bad, they'll say, well, there was an indication that there was something, there was something, there's a criminal record, but not always. I mean, someone, if you're going to have a criminal record, you start from somewhere. And so given all these problems that we have today, even with mental health issues, the fact that someone was able to get a pre-TSA approved and, you know, didn't have anything, a black mark on their record. All of a sudden, you know, something happens in their life, and, you know, there's so many getting this now. I mean, you'll see that it's almost— the lines are almost as long sometimes for the pre-TSA than they are for the regular, uh, passenger standard.

Yeah, I actually, I actually canceled my, um, what was it, what was that other service called? Uh, I canceled my CLEAR because often the CLEAR line was longer than the TSA pre-line. Yeah, and, and the number and the cost jumped like 30%, 35%, and I was like, why am I doing this? Uh, but I mean, I was a fan at the beginning. All that being said, I, you know, your, your question, it does actually, you know, uh, make me think. If you were convicted, say, of theft, why would that prohibit you from getting on a plane, you know? Certainly, it's a felony. It would definitely prevent you from getting a firearm. But why would it prevent you from getting on a plane? And should it prevent you from getting on a plane? You know, I'm not like making a judgment call here. I'm just curious, you know, maybe— or if it was a crime of violence, you know, a felony in general, should that prohibit you from getting TSA Pre? You know, I don't know. You know, I, I'm not making a judgment call here. I'm just curious if that is a consideration or not, getting TSA Pre. I do know with Global Traveller you do need to do an interview, and I don't know how deep they're digging into your actual background. I know that I don't have a felony, and I know that I got it, you know. Interesting.

Yeah.

Okay, uh, next, Peter, this is like craziness. Scams are becoming more convincing and costly, says HelpNet Security. Scams directly targeting consumers continue to increase in both complexity and volume, according to the— according to Visa, you know, Visa, MasterCard. Uh, with the use of generative AI and other emerging technologies, scams are more convincing than ever. Okay, consumers are increasingly targeted by scammers who rely on heightened emotions to create fraud opportunities. While the number of individual scam reports from June to December decreased, the total money lost increased, indicating scammers are targeting victims with more effective and costly scams. So pig butchering is capitalizing on holidays like Valentine's Day— loneliness— and New Year's Eve— loneliness— through leveraging social media and dating sites. Scammers lure victims into online relationships—

loneliness—

and convince them to invest in fake cryptocurrency trading platforms. Leveraging AI to create more convincing campaigns, pig booker— pig butchering scams have led to billions of dollars of losses to consumers. 10% of surveys of adults have been targeted in pig pig butchering scams. The AI aspect of everything is flipping fraud on its head. That guy's reinventing fraud so fast, it's really scary.

It is. I, I just read recently a script that is used to train in the— you know, a lot of these scammers, they're working for organizations, you know. It's not just one person out there doing this. You have organizations that have, it is almost like a call center. They got dozens if not hundreds of people that are working there. They recruit people to do this. Sometimes they might even traffic humans and basically not pay them hardly anything, but they have leverage over them. They train these individuals on how to conduct these interactions, how they approach people. One I read was like 5 pages long, script about how to, you know, how to do this every single call, what to say, what to comment, you know, how to react to, to a person, you know, based on what they say. And it's just phenomenal, phenomenal. It's really scary.

And that's human interaction, that via AI. It's happening instantaneously, instantaneously, and it's clean and it's clear. And through FraudGPT and other AI fraud platforms It's making, uh, artificial intelligence deepfakes so much more effective. We recently saw in Hong Kong, um, a money manager I think wired like $25 million, uh, out of the organization, and he had done that based on a Zoom conference that he was on with other money managers or others in the organization, uh, that was all AI-generated. All the video was all AI-generated. All the voice was all AI-generated. And he was convinced it was all legit. Yeah, $25 million.

And these are the ones we hear about. There's a lot of them going on where they're not reported, right? Because companies or individuals don't want to report a lot of times when they've been taken because it's, you know, they're embarrassed It hurts their reputation. And so there's a lot more of these going on. We're just, we're just seeing or hearing about the tip of the iceberg.

So right here, uh, D-N-E-Y-U-Z, a Mexican drug cartel's new target: seniors in their timeshares. The operation is relatively simple. Cartel employees posing as sales representatives call up timeshare owners offering to buy their investments back for generous sums. They then demand upfront fees for any—

for—

from listing advertisements to paying government fines. The representatives persuade their victims to wire large amounts of money to Mexico, sometimes as much as hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then they disappear. So it talks about, uh, this guy right here. Uh, I am old just like these clients, says Michael Finn, founder of Finn Law Group in St. Petersburg, Florida, which has represented thousands of people facing various forms of timeshare fraud. We tend to be trusting when someone calls chatting us up and selling these dreams, man. And they talk— it talks about a victim in here, right? Uh, this guy, uh, James, 76, and his wife Nikki, they received a call from a supposed real estate agent at Worry Free Vacations in Atlanta, and, uh, they ended up sending a ton of money. It went on— it goes on to say that, um Hold on. Uh, the couple said that they were depleted their life savings and now in debt, uh, that they then even borrowed $150,000 from their daughters and sold a childhood home. And the guy says, I'm sure that if I were asking them, they'd say, how could you be so stupid, James said of his daughters. Uh, and that I asked myself the same thing. I used to think I was fairly intelligent.

It, it's, it's really, it's almost Incredible, but it is true. And then so many people are taken by this, you know. I've— I never— fortunately, I never— or unfortunately, I mean, I never bought into timeshare. I, I feel it's maybe really great for some people, but I think so many people I come across, I regret that they actually bought it, and they're thinking, oh man, if I could sell this, it'd be great. And then so they're combining that, you know, people want to get rid of this asset in quotes, but at the same time, they're looking at the opportunity to make a lot of money, right? Like hundreds of thousands, not millions of dollars. And, and when you know the timeshare market, there's no— this can't happen. I mean, there's continuously timeshares on the market that people are trying to market and sell. And so this type of opportunity, you got to be really skeptical. And if you're sending out hundreds of thousands of dollars thinking that these are— this is what I got to pay out to be able to get a property sold that I'm going to get a million dollars for, I mean, it's just— I don't know, it's It's scary. Awareness, right?

Yeah, yeah. My wife and I, uh, all liquored up while walking the streets of, uh, Puerto Vallarta back in 2003. I got stopped by some guy who offered us like $150 to go to a timeshare presentation and to buy us— buy my wife, um, Ray-Ban sunglasses for another $150. So we were looking at $300 to sit down for a timeshare presentation. All buzzed up, never, you know, being approached like that before. We were like, yeah, and we did it, and we bought, Peter, we bought.

Okay, now listen, well, you know what, I want to, I want to interject something here because I know there are people that do it, and I've done it, and sometimes that, you know, that it's tempting— free meal, free airline ticket, whatever— but you got to come back at the end of the day when they're— you're pitched and they're kind of like, uh, you know, they're heavy-handing you, the response that I use that pretty much deflates any possibility is I say, I don't agree with the concept, or this concept is not for me. And when I use that, it's kind of like they give up. Otherwise, anything else you say, it's like they'll try to say, no, but this— no one— I just say, I don't believe in the concept.

Yeah, well, we bought, uh, we bought when timeshares weren't a whole lot of money. The salesperson lied to us up and down all day long. Uh, she, she definitely scammed me and my wife. And the way she scammed me was the interest that I had was, can I rent this out? And she said all day long, yes, for twice as much as your, um, maintenance fee costs. And I just believed her. And I could not rent it out once for that matter. I will say that we have made the timeshare work for us. Uh, I did actually try to sell it at one point, but we've made it work for us to the degree where right now our maintenance fee, which basically is like 2 weeks of the timeshare, is like $1,100 for a 5-star resort. Can you go anywhere for, for 2 weeks for $1,100 at this point? No, no. You know, like, anyway you go anywhere nice, it's gonna cost you $300 to $500 a night easy all day long. So we've made it work for us. It's absolutely paid for itself in the long run based on the amount of traveling that we've done. Like, we just did, you know, 10 days in Mexico. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm as tan as, you know, anybody in Orlando for the— that's been out in the sun on the golf course. Uh, so we've made it work for us. That said, I still get phone calls once a week from somebody trying to buy my timeshare, or they can sell my timeshare. And I know that they're all scams. I know every single one of them is scams. And my response to everybody is, oh, we sold that thing a long time ago, take me off your list. So, and I know that those who are employees of these timeshare companies are often, um, hit up to sell the lists of the members of the timeshares. That's how the lists get into the cartel's hands. So anytime the phone rings, anytime you get an email, just Hang up, say I sold it, you know.

Yeah, good advice.

Peter, uh, tell everybody where you're at, where you're going, how can they get in touch with you.

Well, the easiest way to get in touch with me, go to my website counterintelligenceinstitute.com and, uh, or my LinkedIn page. And, uh, I'm always available, interested in, in speaking with people about the opportunities to provide security awareness training. I'm— I'm, uh, April is a good month for me as far as being able to build up and change a lot of my update, my presentations, because starting in May I have a lot of presentations. I'm gonna be traveling quite a bit. And for those of you thinking about October, it's Cybersecurity Awareness Month, so I'm already getting, getting, uh, heavily— I mean, I still got some up, some openings, but if you're looking for good professionals like myself or, or Robert Siciliano, I mean, you better, you better Better look now because that month is very difficult to book speakers.

Yeah, me too. And check out Peter's book, Why Are You Messing With Me? Senior Survival Guide on Fraud, Privacy, and Security. And also see his book Confessions of a CIA Spy: The Art of Human Hacking, both on Amazon. We will provide links in the show notes. And y'all can check out me and my team at protectnowllc.com. And our cybersecurity employee training, both live and via Zoom and/or in person. And we also, of course, have e-learning if that's something that you want as well. So that's it. Peter, last words?

Be very protective of your eyes these days, as well as your pocketbook.

Yes. And be good and behave and be careful. And we'll talk to you soon.

Bye-bye.