Episode 131: Why Natalie Jill Removed Her Implants After 33 Years

Natalie Jill is a midlife expert who helps women simplify complicated health topics and redefine healthy aging. With the top rated podcast Midlife Conversations, two bestselling fat loss books that sold out in stores Everywhere, and numerous TV appearances on shows like the Doctors, she built a high seven figure fat loss business and transformed over 250,000 women's bodies and health. Over 50 years old herself, she has changed the conversations around age, potential and possibility. In addition to her midlife fat loss business, she helps founders, executives and CEOs skyrocket their sales and find more money through uplifting their vision, dialing in their message, expanding their brand online and fixing their sales and webinar conversion process. She used the exact method she teaches to grow her globally recognized fat loss and fitness brand. With well over 3 million social media followers worldwide, two best selling books, a top ranked podcast and recognition from Forbes Greatest several years running as one of the top health and wellness influencers in the world. Welcome Natalie Jill I'm Dr. Rob Whitfield, the board certified plastic surgeon specializing in explant surgery. Breast implant illness is a topic that is not often talked enough about, especially in the medical community, but is something that affects many women. In this podcast I'll be discussing the latest research, treatment options and personal stories of women who have undergone explant surgery in an effort to heal breast implant illness. In this podcast we'll explore the symptoms of breast implant illness and delve into the latest surgical techniques for explantation and the recovery process. Whether you are currently experiencing breast implant illness or are considering explant surgery, this podcast is a valuable resource for anyone looking to take control of their health and wellness. So let's dive in. Well everyone, I have Natalie Jill on Today. We've been trying to get her on the show for a period of time and as much time as I spend in her town you think would be easier. But now we're just going to do it remote because that's the easiest way to get her on and she has quite a complex history and it took her a period of time to wrap her mind around issues with her breast implants. And Dr. Ricky is her doctor who I know and he really helped kind of pave the way for her to get better. So I'm going to have Natalie explain how she had 33 year history with yes, it's surgeries and everything.

It's kind of embarrassing when I think back and that I was in that much denial. So I first got them when I was 19 years old and very young and it was one of those things I just always was self conscious about my chest. It was something I always thought about. I didn't even know implants were an option. I remember I was waiting tables at a restaurant and two of my friends there had them and they said, oh, you can get implants, it's easy. So I didn't really think much about it. I was literally 19 years old. I went to a consult, they told me they were safe. I got them in against my parents better judgment, but again, I was 19 already. I was an adult. I put them in. And that started a journey of 33 years, of five sets, lots of complications, and complete denial that they were actually unhealthy or hurting me or could be dangerous in any way. It's all I knew. So literally 33 years, five sets that I had them in.

Yeah. And we talked about a little bit offline. So my background, because I haven't chatted with Nelly other than briefly at a meeting, is in oncologic reconstruction. So I always got faced with patients who've had a lot of surgery and it was always, she's going to talk about capsule contracture, which she experienced. And like, her doctor was great in that he listened to her and tried to help her basically meet her where she was. She had problems with her implants and was having symptoms. And we can go through the whole of those. But the more surgery you have, the more likely you are to have a contaminant introduced.

Yes.

The situation that leads to a capture contracture, my opinion. And that sounds exactly like your situation.

Yeah. So the first set I had at age 19, I remember I had them in for about two years. They were the traditional original silicone before they were taken off the market. And what had happened was one of em became really hard and high up and the other one, you couldn't even feel an implant. And this was back before anyone was talking about BII or even ruptures or even silicone leaking outside of the capsule. There was no conversation around that. And I went to multiple surgeons and all I kept hearing was, oh, this one was a winner. We don't even feel the implant. And this one you have something called capsular contracture. So around and it started hurting the capsular contracture. So the surgeon at the time that I went to address it, silicone had just become banned. So this was the first time that silicone was banned. And he said, you know what? Silicone's been banned, it's taken off the market. Just to be safe, let's go in and just replace them with saline. I'll remove the capsule. Well, I woke up from that first surgery to the surgeon and my mom standing over me saying, the reason your one silicone felt so natural is the whole thing had ruptured. And at the time, they were not aware of, like, the whole capsule having to contain it. So I had silicone everywhere throughout my body. So they had to not just take that out. They had to take actually a liposuction to get out all the silicone that had ruptured throughout my body, and they couldn't get it all. So even till this day, this is from when I was, gosh, at the time, 21 years old. There's little hard silicone balls near my lymph nodes from that original rupture that was super disruptive. Now, what I don't. Didn't know then which have connected the dots now is I do have an autoimmune. I will never know if that original rupture is what started and triggered that first. That autoimmune that I got. So that was kind of my first red flag with implants. And I remember my. My mom at the time saying, I. I just wanted to tell the surgeon to take them out. These are so, you know, ridiculous. But. But they didn't. We put saline in, and I started a second journey of saline implants, which created another capsular contracture. Took a few years, but another capsular contracture, and I went on to replace.

What's that on the same side?

Same side first. That same side. It kept recurring, and so it would sort of live with it. It wouldn't hurt if it didn't look different, but I would, over the years, go and replace it when it would get bad enough. And nobody ever told me, you know, it's a bacterial infection. We've got to get that out. Each time they would just take out the implants, put a new set in. It would be okay for a little while, and then, sure enough, the capsular contracture would come back.

Let's pause there. So what Natalie's describing is, first of all, silicone was brought to market in 1960. A few years later, Cronin and Giroux published a paper about their experience with the first placement of these devices. And then Connie Chung basically ran a story. And in 1991 and then 1992, there's a moratorium placed on silicone devices, and they don't get reintroduced to the market until 2006. So during 92 to 06, unless you're running a study, you're getting a saline device now. It still has a silicone shell. It's just the filler is basically saline. And back then we did not use pcr. Now everybody remembers from the pandemic a basic COVID test, an antigen test, if it was equivocal, you know, you could do a PCR test and that would tell you yes or no. And so in 2019, I started exclusively using PCR testing and have the largest experience with that in the world for patients who are explanting because of breast implant illness. So I published the paper last year and my thought about what you're describing is biofilm or bacterial contamination that's very difficult to culture or find in the traditional methods. Have they used PCR testing or had that available back when you were having that issue, that would have been at least a more sensitive and specific method to identify what you're experiencing. All the things that I learned in training from a evidence based standpoint, are a little jaded because of the technique used to determine what was there, what wasn't there. And for those of us who believe the world is round, not flat, science does and is a thing. The PCR testing works and will show you what is there. So in 29% of the cases of explant specimens, I find bacterial contamination. What I don't know. And it would take larger centers or more surgeons doing surgery for capture contracture to clarify, like how many of these are specifically bacterial contamination. Because there'll be a percentage that are. Some of you had a hematoma, somebody who'd had. If you exclude everybody having multiple surgeries, there would be other potential plausible explanations. But that's certainly for me, like when you say you had a capture contractor, I immediately go like, yeah, they had a bacterial contaminant in there over that period.

Yeah. And I believe that very likely was true. I also think, and again, I'm not a surgeon, I'm not a doctor. I have this whole theory that while I would get capsular contracture, and we know now it's almost like your body's trying to push it out of your body. It doesn't want it there and you're getting this hardening around it. I think that that hardening that tissue maybe even protected me from some of the problems that implants show. Because I always thought I feel healthy, I feel great. I did have an autoimmune, my autoimmune celiac, that's a more mild one. But I always felt like when people would talk about BII or problems with how they're making them sick. I thought that was crazy. I wasn't bought into that. I thought, well, I feel fine. And I've had, I've had many sets other than capsular tractor. I believed I didn't have a problem. Where my problems really started health wise. And I didn't even connect until implants, until they were completely removed was when my final surgeon that had put them in and replaced them, she said, just like what you said, capsular contracture is typically caused by bacterial infection. What I wanna do is clean out that whole pocket, remove that capsule, seal that up. They were under the muscle originally. Let's clean all that up. Let's let that part heal. We're gonna create a new pocket over the muscle and we're gonna put them there and we'll do a textured implant, a gummy bear one. And that should stop the problem of capsular contracture. She also recommended a prescription for life which I never took, which was going to help apparently, so I don't get that infection again. I did not take it. It was some type of. I'm going to say the wrong thing. There was some prescription she wanted me to take that would stop your body from trying to reject it.

So was it an antibiotic or was it singular? A nasal spray?

That's what it was. No, I think it was like a singular. It was actually a pill though. But it was something along those lines.

For caps or contracture.

Yes, yes. So I did not take that, but I did not get cap. Capsular contracture again. But what's interesting is this kind of aligned with being in perimenopause and approaching menopause when she did that final set. I'm 53 now at the time of talking to you. And so as I started to have a lot of these problems like midsection weight gain and you know, I'm in the fat loss fitness industry. Like this is not something that, that I had experienced. Right. So I, all of a sudden I'm starting thick in the middle. I'm starting to get tired all the time. I'm starting to have these lots of pain injuries. I tore a bicep, broke a foot, I ruptured a disc in my back. Like lots of things going on where just put in the box of, you know what, I'm getting older, it's towards menopause, it's got to be this. I was not associating it yet with implants, I think.

And I listened to your conversation with Dr. Ricky and you mentioned and we'll go Back to this. But one of your main symptoms was joint pain that result after explant.

Yes.

And so when you have inflammation. And now we have a more cause and effect relationship. So patients who have bacterial contaminate. So we'll say that's what you experience if that's staph epi or cutibacterium. Staph epic epi is associated with production of a molecule called oxylipin 10 home. So a scientist has shown this now, and basically a cascade of events happen in the immune system to ramp up the symptoms, one of which can be joint pain or muscle pain, fatigue. And so like, you're talking about going through and experiencing perimenopause and menopause. I have a lot of patients who are just, honestly, Natalie, they're in their 30s and they think they're having this problem. So that's normal. 1. If you're listening to this, like in your 30s, it's horrible.

So what's wild is I still wasn't connecting the dots at all. I'm literally thinking, you know, I started hormone replacement. I'm thinking I just got to get tighter on my diet. I've got to be really strict. I got to work out harder. I was just doing all the things that I knew what got my attention, and there's a little bit of a journey here. So, so, so bear with me here. What got my attention is I started having a really bad blood sugar dysregulation, really bad one where I would eat B berries, for example, which are very low glycemic, and my blood sugar would spike to almost 250. So just a really interesting blood sugar dysregulation. And not only would it spike super high, I was starting to get really low blood sugar in exchange. So my family, we have a history of autoimmune in my family. My sister's type 1 diabetic, but my mom is type 2 diabetic. So I went down the whole traditional western medicine of am I approaching type 2 diabetes? Whoa, you just froze now, right? We started looking at that, tested for juvenile diabetes. I ended up actually in the hospital because of a massive blood sugar dysregulation. So still not connecting any dots here. But what happened was in my blood sugar problem and going towards a ton of western medicine, doctors. A good friend of mine, Laura Frontero, who, you know, who happens to focus in the gut health space, she said to me, natalie, parasites and bad gut health can cause blood sugar dysregulation. And I thought she was crazy. I'm Like, I don't. What is she talking about here? I really thought she was crazy. It was so foreign for me, but nothing was helping me. You know, I tried the metformin. I, I. Nothing was helping. My blood sugar problem here, the natural stuff, berberine, Nothing was helping. So I thought, what do I have to lose? Let me. Let Laura do her thing. So I did a test. I did a GI mapping test, which you're. I'm sure you're familiar with, and it literally showed parasites, which it's rare to show that sometimes. Usually those don't even. But mine showed it. So I thought, okay, she's crazy, but maybe there's something to it. So I went through an entire parasite protocol. So what does this have to do with the implants? Well, I'll tell you. I went through this whole parasite protocol for about four months, and right away started feeling better, started releasing a little bit of weight naturally, started getting focus and energy back. And I was praising Laura, like, this is amazing. You're a genius here. And she said to me, natalie, something's feeding it. Like, you don't just get parasites. Like, you could eat the same organic salad, the same raw sushi as somebody that doesn't have something feeding it. That person's stomach and gut biome will not let those thrive in there, and something is feeding yours, or this wouldn't have happened to you. That's what she said to me. So I started going down the rabbit hole of what could that be? Well, because I had maxed out my insurance, basically my deductible in the hospital stay, I thought, you know what? Let me just go do all these other tests. So I went and did a mammogram, and the mammogram came back that I had this rupture. Now, I had gummy bear implants that were not supposed to rupture, and came back that it had completely ruptured. I remember I called my surgeon, who's Dr. Kat in LA. She's amazing. And she said, there's no way. I mean, those are the gummy bear implants that shouldn't have ruptured. I flew to LA to have her herself look and do a breast ultrasound. She then ordered a breast mri. All confirmed that I had this massive rupture, which she said were the textured portin implants from textured gummy bear implant. It's like a card. Preformed gel. So not supposed to rupture. Right. So none of us believed it. Right? There's no way. I thought there was a mistake, but I did not just an mri. We did an ultrasound, two of them. I did a breast mri. I did all of it and the mammogram. So all confirmed it, which she then said, they've got to come out. Now, what's interesting is even the woman, the doctor that did the breast ultrasound, and other surgeons, I couldn't believe it. They said, it's okay as long as it's in the capsule. You can leave it. And I thought that was crazy. Like, wait, I have a ruptured gummy bear there?

Because I don't want this to go unrecognized. Because intuitively you knew that was a bad thing to be in your body.

Yes.

And this is something that is basically passed on as dogma, that it's okay to have a ruptured implant as long as it's contained. Now, the science that I referred to about Oxylipin 10 home shows that there's communication between your scar capsule, which is the sack around the implant your body makes, and the breast tissue.

Yes.

So if we're just following basic logic and that can happen from the bacteria on the surface of the implant, then by all means, when something ruptures and leaks into that sac, there's more ability to communicate. Because that scar capsule that your body makes is not impervious.

Right.

Think of it like something that's knitted or has openings or pores in it. It's not impervious. So there is always going to be communication. And intuitively you knew that was a bad idea to keep that. I want everybody listening to understand it is not a good idea to have something that is defective or broken speaking in your body. That just intuitively doesn't make any sense.

Which is crazy that so many people would say, even doctors were saying, it's okay, you can keep it there. Which is. I just knew that it needed to come out now. Then what happened was. So this started to make sense to me. And of course, Laura's thinking, well, this. I knew something was going on here, like something else is feeding this. So the question is, I don't know how it ruptured. Now, I have my own theories whether it was the mammogram itself that ruptured it, which is very possible, or whether it was my sauna, which I'm a huge fan of sauna. But when you think about it, I know you can't say this, but I will. Asana is heating you kind of like from your inside out. And I was doing that every day, thinking, this is a great thing. And I'M still to this day. I love my infrared sauna. I use it daily, but I don't know, like, if it was a combination or what happened there. But something happened to basically destroy this implant. So I go to multiple surgeons to get consults on replacing them. Not even in my head at this point to take them out. I have a lot of compassion for women that don't want to take them out because I was literally that person. I had them for 33 years. I was in the fitness industry. I was on the COVID of magazines. Like, this was part of my image, my body. People could say what they want, but this was part of me for 33 years. So it wasn't just an easy decision. Just go remove it. I'm thinking, still, let's replace them. I had multiple surgeons agree when I asked the question, they say, you'll hate how you look. It's not. Not. You've had them for so long, they're safe. Let's just replace them. Like, everyone said that. It wasn't until I went to Dr. Ricky Brown, who you mentioned out here, who was the first one when I went in and said, I want to replace them. He said, why don't you just take them out? And I got very defensive when he said it. It was like, what. What do you mean, take them out? Like, are you crazy? And I really give him a lot of credit for bringing that up because, you know, he puts them in still. He puts them in and takes them out. And he said, I think you should take him out. And when I asked why, he said, you've had so many surgeries, you've had health things going on. You don't know what these are causing. Just take them out. And if you hate it, heal first. If you hate it, we can always put him back in. But you don't know what's on the other side of this. So he suggested that to me.

Yeah, I think his interview with you is very good. So anybody listening could go back and go through Natalie's interview on her podcast with Dr. Ricky Brown. But this is where both. And we'll take it in two parts because I feel like. Like people who are young and get them put in like you did don't really understand all the ramifications because they're. I don't say younger, but it's more of a life experience thing. Like, yeah, have a discussion. And my discussions always revolved around cancer. The youngest person I ever operated on for breast cancer was 24. But there's instances of younger patients now that's a whole different conversation totally versus what you were experiencing where you're unhappy with the appearance and you wanted to change it. I always think of it this way. Like no matter what I tell you at that period of time in your life. Yeah. You're gonna take it and with a grain of salt and to change and that's fine. But you cannot get somebody that young who's focused on that change to change their mind.

Exactly. Yeah. And you couldn't have told me at 19 not to do it. I didn't read the paperwork. I didn't do. I just, I signed away. I was determined. Like I was a teenage. I mean I think of my daughter, she's 17. I can't tell her what to do. Like she's like, like, like I can tell her as her mom, but she's gonna, she's a teenager. You know, I was a teenager at age 19. I wasn't thinking consequence older sound seem far away. Like it doesn't. It wasn't registering. But what I will tell you is I had all the fears a lot of women listening to this probably have. I thought, well I'm gonna be like a negative a cup. I'm gonna be concave. It's gonna look terrible. This is gonna mess with my image. And you know, my husband was super supportive. Like when I was originally going to replace them, he was not encouraging either way. He just said, I know you and I want you to be happy. So if it's gonna upset you to take them out, keep them in. But as soon as he heard with Dr. Brown about taking him out, he was like me. We went down the rabbit hole together. We could. Neither one of us could sleep thinking about it and we both kind of agreed, like, hey, what do I have to lose? Like, let's just take him out, put him back in later. No, I will acknowledge I had a very supportive husband and I understand some women don't have that situation. They have. Whether they're single or they have a husband that's against them removing them or doesn't believe this. So I understand I have like a little bit of a privilege there because I definitely had a supportive husband that said it's fine. Like whatever it is, it's fine. So. And I just to. To kind of fast forward. I literally have nothing when people say flat is a board. When I see people saying that they're an A cup. No, I'm like a negative A. There is nothing there. And he did a lift to make it so it wouldn't just be loose Skin. But there is nothing. And I'll tell you what, the way that I feel now, I don't care because I feel like a different person. And it would never occur to me to put them back in now.

Yeah. I think if you go back to when you were 18, 19, and this is a very specific thing, I'm going to say you were not told about or probably couldn't have a fat transfer based on your body.

Yes. And it wasn't a thing then. I don't. I didn't know of anyone doing that then. And I weighed like 95 pounds when I did this at age 19, so I don't know where they would have taken it from.

That's always the rub. Like, people ask me, like, why didn't somebody discuss fat transfer with them? Well, there's multiple reasons. It could be the surgeon's experience is not, in their mind, good enough to sit there and go through it with the patient and give them the confidence about doing that procedure. Second is patient variable. Patient's too lean. They don't have enough fat. And they know that to get the patient expectation that an implant is basically the only way in that particular situation. Like when you are 18, 19 years old, they can do that when you're £90, and that's it. So I feel like that gets talked about now in a negative way because it wasn't explained initially. So that's a patient surgeon kind of situation.

Yeah. Even when I was removing them, I asked about that option and he was not against it. But what he told me, which I understand to be true, is that when you put fat in initially, you're going to lose 40, 50% of it over time. And he didn't say he was against it. He wanted me to heal first, and if I still wanted it later, to go back and revisit that. The reason I have not done a fat transfer yet, and I can't say I never would. I don't think I will, but I can't say what I'll decide five years from now. Right now, that's not on my radar. I have friends that have had fat transfer, and I hear the same thing from all of them. They have to take liposuction from multiple areas of your body. I don't have a lot of extra fat, number one. So I hear it's painful and there's a lot that they've got to take, and it does not all survive. So you go through all that for what? So I've decided at this point, it's more working on my own self and why I felt I needed these. And so I'm healing there. And look the farthest person against plastic surgery. I just had. I just had my eyelids done, and I was very public about it, so I'm for it. To me, it's a little different doing that versus implanting something or so I just have my own personal different journey thoughts around it. But I don't see at this point that I would be doing anything else on my breast.

Yeah. And it goes back to what Natalie's talking about. It depends on the patient and their body and what options are really available. So if you have somebody who really doesn't carry much in the way of body fat, it's always going to be a challenge to help them. And I will tell you, Natalie, you're not saying the quiet part out loud is I have a lot of patients who want fat transfers or taking Ozemp and Mangoro and.

Yeah, how are you going to do that? Like, yeah, you have skin, you have loose skin. There's no fat to take.

Y' all can't ask me to do a fat transfer while you're taking peptides like that. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how to explain that to a patient other than like, yeah, those things. Three to six months and have an appetite and have enough body fat.

Yes.

To actually help you. And then, you know, it's like, the concern over fat transfers is much to do about nothing. So butt lifts and facial fat augmentation and breast augmentation with fat all work.

Yeah, I had that under my eyes. I had a fat transplant in my eyes and it worked great. Yeah, yeah.

It's more about the space where you put it in the breast. There's just a limited area. It's kind of think of like the pocket on the front of a shirt. Once the pocket is full, you can't just keep shoving stuff in the pocket. Right. It's going to come out of the pocket, and that's basically the skin is the COVID And then below that is where you put the fat, because that's the fatty layer on the body. It's not. You don't want to put things in the old breast pocket. And we don't stuff things into the breast tissue because you make cysts and other weird stuff. You don't really want any of that.

You know what's interesting, I think of, like, I go at my gym now. I just think about this. A lot of women in their 20s, even early 30s, there's a huge focus on developing glutes and having a bigger butt for lack of. Right. Whether it's a butt implant or actually a lot of people like really building muscle. There's. Well, I want to share. When I was in my early 20s, that wasn't a thing. We used to hide our butts. Like we would wear literally a sweatshirt around it and it was like not. It was a body type that was in. And the body type that was in was super thin with big implants. Like that was the thing. So just like somebody in their 20s might not relate to this but they're building their glute muscles. It was literally that type of way. Like I don't have any friends, not one friend that did not get implants in their early 20s. Like that was a big thing for us. Us. So as much as somebody could say I don't get it, I would never do that now this was the thing. You almost looked funny if you didn't do it.

Yeah. I've interviewed patients and they've told me all sorts of things. Like Baywatch was an influence. Barbie was an influence. Magazines of course were an influence. Patients tell me that for modeling work. They were told like hey, you need to have bigger breasts. We can get you more work.

Yes, I was a fitness model. I was guilty of it. I mean I had big implants on fitness covers. I'm sure I influenced that in a bad way. But you know we, this was a different time. Like we grew up with commercials. If you can pinch an inch talking about drinking diet tab like it was body shaming was a real thing. If you were overweight and didn't have big boobs. Like this was a thing. So I understand when people say they don't get it but this was different times and we was really a lot of pressure to look and people commented, they would say things. It was like a tease thing. Like if you're flat chested. People don't really do that now.

No, it's a different time now. Now it's you know, more emphasis like you said on the. The glute region. And then it was fat transfers to the buttocks. There's been safety issues. People have been injured and passed away. Florida and California. And I wrote a safety paper about it for the. One of the societies. But it's shifted.

Yeah.

The. From the. The very done breast look totally hot. And then you know I have so many people and you talk about this a lot leading a more healthy, non toxic lifestyle and yeah how that no longer those things don't align. If you have breast implants. So there's always this thing with, you know, different influencers. One of which brought me up on their show the other day, which was interesting, talking about, you know, what we do. And, you know, we've tried to just make sure we help patients get well, whether that's, you know, with surgery or without surgery. We have a program that really helps. Just like you ran Laura's program program to help with that. Knowing that I love that instance. Can you actually manage like you found out? It's very.

Yeah, well, so what's interesting is nobody will change my beliefs around this now because of my actual experience and just to kind of fast forward what happened. I teach fat loss. I teach nutrition. This, I'm a licensed master sports nutritionist. This is what I do with women. Where this really helped in a whole nother level is this really has. I rethought all my programs for women after I went through this. And the reason why is £19. I'm £19 lower. £19 of. Without changing my diet or my workouts since this journey. Now why did that happen for me? I'll tell you why. Because I didn't realize how bad my body was at detoxing. I didn't realize how much all of this was feeding things. And it's my belief that the implants, that rupture in me had really been creating a big issue. And even before the rupture, probably creating an issue which was then feeding other things. So now I wasn't detoxing well. So black mold was going to be worse for me. Like everything was going to be worse. So what happened for me is once I removed the implants and started feeling so much better, I went on an extreme detox. I came back. The pendulum has swung back a little bit now, but to the point where I removed amalgam fillings, I was like, I want everything that is hurting me out of my body. I think the only thing I kept doing at the time was coloring my hair. That was it. But I stopped everything else and I said, I want to see what my body's capable of, of getting that healthy and learning how to open up detox pathways and get. Because we're always going to be exposed to toxins, right? But like I wanted my body to be a well oiled machine that it could actually get rid of things. So that led me to rethinking everything I teach. And it's not that I teach detoxing. What I teach now is being your own health detective. And when women say, hey, I'M just older. It's menopause. That's why I'm gaining weight. I say there's more to the puzzle. Like, yes, let's clean up your diet, let's clean up your mindset, let's move your body, and let's look at all the things that could be contributing. The answer might not just be hormones. It might not just be thyroid. It might not just be gut health. There's other things. And if we're not looking at all of it and being a true health detective, including your implants, then we're missing some pieces here. I don't know that everyone needs to go remove them, but we need to have that as a variable and have a conversation. Is this something contributing? Now, when I shared that recently on social media, I had a few people really mad at me and they said, you know, you really need to clarify if it's a medical necessity. And no, I don't. I'll tell you why. Just because you had a mastectomy and you had cancer doesn't give you a pass to put implants in. I understand psychologically why you want them, but I'm not gonna pretend like they're completely healthy for you just because you need a knee replacement and you're still gonna have leakage. Look, I have metal in my toe. I have metal in my arm from my. I'm not in denial. That helps me function and I'm still at risk for metal. Metal toxicity. So I'm not gonna give people a pass just because they have a medical necessity. Now, one choice might be better than the other, but we're fooling ourselves to act like we can implant something in our body and it's going to be completely healthy.

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They just like they're super sensitive to them. Them.

Yeah. And when they say he's sensitive, it's like if you don't understand things from a genetic standpoint, you can drink too much caffeine or eat too much sugar or take the wrong medication and have a really bad reaction.

Yeah.

And that's the genetic component. Like I always say, you can't pick your parents and you can't outrun a bad diet.

Mine show that genetic component, by the way, on my DNA. So it makes sense.

Yeah. So that's just a genetic component. And then we always do a talks test to look for mycotoxins, which I've heard you talk about on earth and heavy metals. And basically the biggest thing that we find is all the environmental toxins. So things like bisphenols and phthalates, glyphosates, things that atrazine, all sorts of chemicals that get into us from where we lived, where we worked, where we, you know, did an activity, you know, whatever it was, those things get into our system. And when your body can no longer cope with the amount of it, you experience what you experience. And then once you start clawing those things back, if you will, then you can actually get to a point where your body can handle then and provide balance is how I think about it. You'll be back in balance, which is what you are now done all these different things. And the dental thing, I've interviewed a bunch of biologic dentists. And that is such a big factor in patients who, you know, they'll come to me and, like, should I get my dental work done or should I get my breast implants out? And I don't. I'm not here to, like, decide that for someone. I explained to them, like, if that is the paramount thing, if you've always had a problem with a root canal, but being infected, yeah, by all means.

That's what you got to get that out of.

Yours was the opposite. Yours was a breast implant that had been probably infected for, you know, a period of time. And so that was paramount to you getting better. Now you're doing all these things now, and you make so much more in terms of gains now that you've gotten the big step kind of out of the way.

That's right. Yeah. So it's like the domino effect, right? It's all important. But what level. And I do believe women, we get to pick our toxins. I'm not expecting everyone to be perfect. So. So, for example, I color my hair. I'm not gonna stop. I'm like, I'll be 90 coloring my hair. It's my choice. But where the toxins from, that would've affected me more, probably when I was overloading my whole system. Another thing I didn't bring up was I had very elevated liver numbers. For years. We couldn't figure out why. And now I know that's obviously why. Like, my body was trying to do its job and clean things out. It was just overloaded. So I'm asked that same thing too. Should I remove amalgam? Should I remove root canal? It depends. But the things that are simple to fix, let's do do it. Removing an amalgam is not that complicated, and it's not that expensive, by the way. We should all remove those. There's no reason to have that in. Am I going to go remove my metal in my arm that's repaired my bicep? No, I'm going to keep that there because I need my right arm, and I want to be able to use that. But I'm also aware that I need to get my body really good at eliminating problems that could be caused from that. So it's just interesting that we're the first people to want to fix all these things that. But looking at breast implants, there's just still so many women in denial that this is a thing. And I understand why the defense around it, but it's naive to think that it's not contributing to some of our health issues.

Yeah. And you know, for everybody listening, I'll explain the breast cancer problem since Natalie brought it up. So I always worked in big medical centers. So our country is massive. Like, I live in Texas, Spain can fit in Texas. So let's. Part of the problem is sheer size of the country and then we don't have densely populated cities. Some people think we do, but we really don't relative to the rest of the world. And once you get outside of, say I'm in Austin, you can get 20 minutes outside of this place and be very rural very quickly. And so then that creates a situation where the most common form of breast reconstruction that's going to get discussed with you is going to be an implant based reconstruction. Because that's what they can do based on their facility, based on their nursing, aftercare, all the things that are involved in it. And so that's why you have this 80, 20 almost, if you will, if you're going to get reconstructed, we'll just say about 80% are going to be with an implant based reconstruction because that's what they can accomplish for you. And once again, that's after being explained all the options. And I did D flap reconstruction. So it was a totally different, you know, reconstructive ladder for me and I discussed all the different things. But if you're coming to see me, you had already decided you probably didn't want an implant and you were laser focused on using your own tissue. And I used to convert a lot of old implant based reconstructions to your own or an autologous reconstruction with a deep flap. And so when patients who have cancer and have been reconstructed with implants, you know, seek out advice from me, you know, I explained that to him and that's a, an option. But you have to find obviously then the surgeon that resonates with you that can perform that. And you may have to travel, obviously. I mean, people travel from all over the US and outside the US to see me now. But that's the rub. Like you have the right surgeon, they have to fit with you personally and what you want to have as an outcome. And that's a hard thing for some people to wrap them up.

It's hard. I did have not had cancer. So I, it's interesting for me to even say this because I'm not in the shoes of somebody that would, I think, and I don't know because I'm not in that situation. But I think if that is the situation and there is a cancer diagnosis that you would want to do every possible thing to clean up your body. So to me, putting an implant in it helps the vanity of it, which is a huge part. It's just not going to help the health of it. So that's where I feel. It's everyone's personal choice. Like I said, I had them for 33 years. I have compassion. I understand. I just. You'll never change my mind that they're healthy for us. I don't believe that they're healthy.

And that's the actual problem. Right. So you and I understand the other factors, and those are the things that people are not learning and understanding, you know, in terms of their own health. Like, we have this amount of environmental stress and toxins we have in our diet. We have our gut health, we have our hormonal balance. And those things are still not really easily understood by the layperson. So that's very hard for them to objectively understand and make a decision because they just don't know. They don't have that background. They're not getting that background overall, and that's part of the issue. And additionally, like, I have a lot of people that also seek out holistic oncology care and advice, and they use nature's program. So they're trying to clean up their environment, their terrain. So that's a big issue. And I have people, like, constantly tell me they're, like, not getting traditional oncology treatment because they don't want to it. They don't want to have traditional treatments or take a holistic option.

Yeah, no. I personally am not against Western medicine. I think there's a combination of everything. But when people defend implants and say they're FDA approved, it's like. But we're ignoring a whole big part of it, and that's the amount of women. The amount of women that have removed their implants and feel amazing and things cleared up. So we can't deny that. And. And I used to think, like, gosh, I used to think I was guilty of it. I thought the BII people, it's like a cult. They're crazy. They believe everybody has it. But I don't like me.

I can tell you that if you go on those groups, they don't like me either.

They don't like you, The BII community. Why?

No, because I don't think you should get medical advice on Facebook.

Oh, got it. Okay.

So, I mean, yeah, if somebody wants to know something. Had a patient, you know, just last week, asked me about 18 different questions from things in that group, and I was like, where Are these coming from.

Because I get it. You're a doctor. That's. It's not medical, but it is real. Shares. It is real. And I don't know that I'm not in the group, but like, that's. And I certainly don't give medical advice, but I do share. So it's just. It's listening and getting from real women that walk through it. It's important to at least be aware of it, I think.

Oh, yeah. I'm not talking about the sharing part. I get feedback. There's a lot of fear mongering about different things.

I see.

And that's not okay.

No, I get that. Yeah. The fear mongering. No, but being aware and understanding and listening. There's a lot of women that took them out and feel like a different person had results. Thyroids changed, Hormones change. Weight gain change. Foggy head. Like. Like everything that we've been told is just getting older. A lot of that has cleared up when we get to the root.

And I think. You know what, in your conversation with Ricky, I was like, because we have a detoxification program and functional practitioners on my staff running it, you don't really see the back end like we do. So worked with Laura, but we have multiple people in capacity, and currently we use cellcore for detox, so.

Yep. So of course. Great. That's what she. That's what we use. Yeah.

So we have all this kind of in and wrapped into our programs. And I know Ricky, so I'll say this. They don't know. Right. You don't see the back end and you don't know everybody's actually doing in recovery. Well, we do. And I don't have a group of quote unquote people who regret how they feel now. The appearance changes are real.

Oh, yeah. The appearance thing is shocking. Not. I'm not gonna lie. That's a hard one. I was definitely shocked the first time I saw it. You know, I will tell you this. Even though Ricky does not go and talk a lot about BII or any of that, and he still will put implants in because he's. He's gonna do what the patient wants. He did take his wife's out after mine, so that did happen.

I haven't talked to him about that.

I mean, he took them out, so I think his wife saw what I was going through. I became. I'm friends with her, so I don't know the conversation behind closed doors around it, but hers did come out and he did take them out after mine. So I'LL leave it at that.

So, I mean, I appreciate that there's people who are super against it. Then obviously our group has done thousands of explants and helped people recover. So we are very aligned with what people want to do. And then at least he's viewing it, you know, more in a balance, looking at both and understanding there's benefit in those cases that, you know, like yours and others he knows will do well with that.

Well, here's the thing. You know, every surgeon I went to said to me, besides the him you're not going to like how you look. But it was never a conversation about health. It was like, you're not going to like. So they're doing their job as a plastic surgeon, like, I want to help you look different. Right. And then when I would say, what about the health things? Oh, well, the FDA was like these little comments about it. But he was the first one to suggest it. And to me, if your surgeon's not at least having the conversation with you about it, that to me is the red flag. I'm not saying they have to say I'm not putting him in. But there should be a conversation that some women it just to ignore. It doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, that's not fair to the patient. So we just want everybody to have. In summary, like I've told this to everyone, anybody who seeks me, I'll just like if Natalie me instead of if Ricky, we would have talked about it. I would have said, look, you've had a lot of surgery and this is what is typically in this situation. Wrong. It's bacterial contamination. And then you let the patient, after understanding all that, make an informed decision, because that's really. That's our job is to help you make a better decision. I'm not.

Well, that's why I think you're great for that. And I do sing Ricky's praises because I think he actually really cares about patients. And that's the difference too. I think there's some surgeons that they don't. They're caring about the aesthetic. And then there's some surgeons that really do care from a health perspective. And I'll put him in that category. And that's why I think he was amazing for that. He changed my life. Like, he literally changed my life by suggesting that.

Yeah, well, that's a good place too. And because that's what's important, if folks want to hear Natalie's discussion with Dr. Ricky, she. They can go her show and then where can people learn more about what you do to help with their longevity and menopause health and all.

Thank you. Yeah. So, well, my podcast is called Midlife Conversations. So cover all the different topics. And then as far as my website, Natalie jill.com and then social media is Natalie Jill fit everywhere.

All right. You all need to follow her. We do. So thank you. Thank you for coming on. I'm glad we finally got this organized. We've been.

Thanks for having me.

Me been hitting missing but finally got it done.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining me today. I hope you found the information and stories shared on this podcast helpful and informative. Remember, taking control of your health and wellness is key to recovery from breast implant illness. If you're looking for additional resources and support, be sure to visit our online store, Dr. Rob's Solutions. At Dr. Drrobsolutions.myshopify.com you'll find a wide range of wellness products and supplements to support your journey to recovery. From specially formulated detox supplements to personalized skincare products, we have everything you need to aid your recovery. Visit Dr. Rob's Solutions today at drrobssolutions.myshopify.com thank you for listening and we'll be back with another episode soon. Remember, you're not alone in the this journey and together we can overcome breast implant illness. Take care.

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