Independent Podcast Conference 2023 - Live NOW

We got, what, 1, 2, 3, quite a few. Analytics deep dive? 2, okay. So sorry guys, I'll try to get into a little bit of that towards the end here. But for anybody who hasn't seen my channel, it's The Super Joe Pardo Show. I know, is it kind of hard to read? I tried my best to make it as easy to read as possible. But, um, but effectively it's a business education channel. Uh, I, I love helping people. I'm gonna stand up, um, I'm gonna stand up first. Um, okay, there we go. Um, so it's a business education channel. I love helping others, uh, understand. I hope that's recording. Hold on a second. Now that I'm thinking about it, Oh, it is recording. Okay, great, great. All right, so yeah, so it's a business education channel and it's something I've been very passionate about. In 2017, I won a Business Podcast of the Year award from thepodcastawards.com, which was like— I cried. There's a video of it on my channel. Um, it was, it was an emotional day because we just found out the gender of our son that same day. It was also my birthday, or I think it was my birthday. It was like right around the time of my birthday as well. It might have been my birthday. I think it was like, there's a trifecta. It was my birthday, we were finding out the gender reveal, and getting the, uh, the award that night, uh, which is pretty, pretty incredible. But anyway, um, one of the things I do is find ways to make education interesting. And, um, during, you know, COVID, I was watching a lot of YouTube, and there's a lot of reaction channels out there, and I'm always looking at other industries, other niches, niches, niches, however you want to say it. You said it wrong. Uh, and try to bring a piece of that to how I like to teach people, you know, at business. And, um, the reason I love business so much, uh, well, I don't know if it's the reason, but I've been around business since I was a kid. I grew up in a family business from the age of 6, uh, you know, sweeping floors, counting inventory, doing whatever I could, going up and up and up through the ranks of the company. Um, and in 2014, I decided to leave. I started a podcast. Yay! And then in 20— the end of 2014, I started the Independent Podcast Conference. Yeah. Uh, and so with COVID um, you know, I was like, oh, you know, me and my wife were watching a bunch of different reaction channels If you're not familiar with reactions, people watch content and they react to it. Some of it's really silly, stupid, but I, you know, there's a few, uh, players in that, in that space that I've really enjoyed and my wife would enjoy enough that she would tolerate it to be able to watch it with me before we fall asleep. So I was like, you know, I really would love to take this concept and bring it to the business education side. So that's when I was like, well, if I did it for The Profit, uh, which is a TV show with Marcus Lemonis, or Shark Tank, um, even like Judge Judy, or there was like, oh, Bar Rescue. Oh, if anybody's a fan of Bar Rescue, John Taffer, man, yeah, he's, he's no joke. Um, anyway, the, the thing is, is when I did that, I was like, well, let's, let's see if I can make it happen. And, uh, so I took my channel at the time, had like, I don't know, 200 subscribers or whatever. It's a lot of like content that was kind of all over the place. Um, back in 2017, I did 100 vlogs in a row, so it was 100 days. And that was— it was great. Like, I, you know, shot the vlog that day, edited it that night, and then posted it the morning. People loved it. It was really about business. It was like— it was a business lesson vlog. Every day, wherever I was, I would just find a lesson, you know, a marketing lesson or a process lesson, and I would enable, like, the, you know, I'm trying to take what I was doing throughout the day and try to mold it into telling that story of that lesson. So that was great, um, got a little bit of traction, not nearly enough traction to justify the amount of time that it took to do a vlog every single— and the vlogs were only, you know, 5 to 10 minutes long a day, but it's just, it's for anybody who was there Has anybody shot a vlog before? Oh, okay, yeah. I mean, it's a lot of effort, it's a lot of work, and to do it every day was a lot, especially with one kid, soon to be a second kid. It just was not generating enough traction for me to be like, oh yeah, this makes sense, I'm just gonna keep letting it roll. Reaction content. Uh, November is when I got the, the mindset that I was going to make this happen. But you have this little thing called copyright. Has anybody ever heard of copyright before? As I'd never heard of it before until this came up. Um, and YouTube has an out— like, they have their algorithm that checks for copyrighted material, and, and that makes it kind of difficult to be able to create content with that copyrighted material and enable it to, well, A, be able to be seen by people everywhere in the YouTube sphere, as well as be monetized. And the way I saw it was like, well, if I'm going to take the time to do this, I'm not going to— like, I'm not going to do it and like not make any money at it. Plus the videos would be squashed and won't be seen by pretty much anybody anyway because of the copyright issue. So I was like Well, there's plenty of big names doing YouTube, like reaction channels. I'm sure they're getting, you know, checks for, for ad revenue. So I'm sure that like they're not just doing it for the sake of doing it. Um, so I was like, you know, I'm going to, to figure this out. And it took like a month of shooting a video, like to a minute of video, upload it to YouTube, wait for it to either— the clock, like, and I was playing with format and the bit like the layouts to try to figure out like what are these guys and ladies doing on YouTube that enables them to be able to get away with this. What can I do? So I, I went through and, and kept uploading and uploading and uploading and uploading. I mean like 30, 40 clips a day trying to wait and just to see. Yeah, it was a lot. My wife was like, uh, Melissa, for any— anybody who doesn't know her, uh, she'll be here a little bit later today with the kids. I was like, ah, you know, maybe this isn't gonna work, you know. I don't know, you spend a whole lot of time trying to like just upload content to have it be shot down. I'm like, yeah, you know, that is true, but if I figure this out, it's gonna, it's gonna be a thing. Like, it's going to grow. Um, so it took, it took about a month of uploading almost every day, uh, like 10 to 20, 30 clips, some of them longer, some of them shorter, try different layouts. Uh, audio is also a big YouTube copyright problem, uh, so I've had to figure out how to get around all that issue. Once I got all that figured out, um, I want to say by like December I was like doing like a video a week. Um, by March I was like, you know, I, I want to take this serious. I, you know, it's— I've seen like a little bit of traction, you know, videos are getting like 20, 30 views here, 40 views. It just starts to like decline a little bit. Um, but in March, it was actually thanks to— has anybody used Google Trends? Raise your hand, anybody? Yeah. So google.com/trends enables you to be able to see what people are searching for. And it had never occurred to me in all the 5 months that I had been doing this, or almost 5 months I had been doing it, that like maybe I should be doing, you know, Shark Tank, uh, because Shark Tank was definitely by far getting the most views at that point. I stopped it with a profit, um, because it's just nobody was— nobody was searching for these, these things, right? It just wasn't going anywhere. So it occurred to me to go to Google Trends and then look up what the newest episode of Shark— you know, the newest episodes of Shark Tank is and where the search traffic is coming from. And lo and behold, the night it airs, it's through the roof. So I'm like, oh well, I need to produce these episodes, the new episodes, not like season 2 and season 3. They're on season like 14 this year, right? Um, need to produce it that night when people are actually searching for this stuff. So me and— shout out to Larry Roberts, anybody? Larry Roberts, yeah, Larry Roberts, he's a superstar now, right? I was like, Larry, let's— let's come with me and let's do, you know, kill your Friday nights and spend it with me. And we're gonna shoot 4 videos. So it effectively takes about 3 to 4 hours to do that episode. I shoot it starting right after the first pitch is over here on the East Coast. By the time I'm done and uploaded everything, it's just airing on the West Coast. So like 11, by 11 o'clock, generally speaking, I have at least the first 3 pitches up. So it's online before airing there. In fact, usually the first pitch is up before the show's even done airing here on the East Coast. Yeah, so part of that, I got to show some of you last night. I came back to my studio and I was showing the process and what I do to make it work. But effectively, I have Siri, which I guess I can still say that before they change. It's not, hey, the S word, um, and, uh, you know, film. And it changes all my lights, you know, the house lights go down, the backdrop lights come on, the front key light comes on, the camera turns on, uh, everything's set up to go. I open up— I use OBS and I use a Sony A5100, which I got for like $300 used on Facebook Marketplace. Shout out to that guy that I bought it from. Um, and You know, it's, it's so it's all set up and into a capture card, and it's, it's effectively ready to go with the Stream Deck so I can control OBS, which is the recording software that enables you to be able to, I mean, effectively do any kind of layouts and change it. So I do all that on the fly. Everything's shot in real time. I do not edit my videos with the exception of copyright. If it flags the video for copyright, I just go and I clip out that spot, those spots that it feels is overreaching, or whatever the algorithm thinks. I, I don't know. But, um, and, and that enables me to get a, a video that is, you know, raw and authentic, um, right off the cuff. Like, I don't pre, you know, do anything with the product or anything like that. Um, and I feel like it's— it has worked really well for for the people that want that kind of content. And I'll talk about the comments side of things in a talk that I prepared this morning at 5 o'clock in the morning for all of you later. But when it comes to, you know, figuring out what your niche is or niche and with YouTube, you know, you have to find ways to make people want to click. Because when it comes to YouTube, you're not competing with people most likely that are in your category, that are in your niche, that are— you're competing with MrBeast, you're competing with whoever, you know, they also happen to watch. Um, because majority of what comes through is on the home screen. I mean, who, who watches YouTube here on regular? Okay, so do you ever like go to your subscription box Like, I mean, very, very rarely. Like, if there's nothing in my home screen, I, I'll go to, you know, the subscription button over here is what I'm referring to. Um, I should use the pointer app. So yeah, so you got your subscriptions and your home right there. So you're competing with like 8 videos or 7 other videos in most cases to like get somebody to click. So, you know, while the thumbnail is super important and it's gradually becoming less important because of autoplay, as soon as you hover over it, it starts to play the video, which is really annoying because I like good thumbnail design and I'd like to see those thumbnails. I don't get to see them as often anymore because of the autoplay feature. But you, so you have to figure out what is going to make somebody want to click on that video and then just go really hard into getting them captivated so that they'll stick around for more than just 10 seconds or 5 seconds. A pro tip that I shared, I think it was with Nicole last night, is when I share my videos on like social media and stuff, I share the link to my website where the blog post with the video rather than to the actual link of the video. Anybody want to ask why I would do that instead of sending them directly to YouTube? Why would you do that, Joe? Ah, it sounds terrible, right? Like I'm missing out on the view, right? Like that's— it's doesn't make a lot of sense, but you're— when I share something to YouTube, I don't want people to click on it, watch it for 5 seconds, oh, there's Joe's face, and then click, they move, they clicked out, and they just told YouTube they weren't interested in your video. Watch time is the most, like, the most important metric that you can have with that. So you're always going to find that balance of, like, getting people to click in, stay around long enough, but not make it too boring, right? There's no thing too long, just too boring. So these are the types of things that you need to think about when you're creating your content and maybe come at it from a different angle. With that said, it's sometimes it's kind of hard to make interview content really captivating. You know, if you see— and I hate when— I'm glad that a lot of YouTubers have gotten away from this, that when you click on the video, they show like a 10-second like blurb of the video, like that's going to happen later on, but the video is only like 8 or 10 minutes long. So it's almost as if like I'm going to forget what happened. Like, it's like I was already interested enough to click. So like, why do I need to click, watch 10 to 30 seconds of the video and then go to the beginning? Like, because then they're like, oh, and this is how it started. And then they go back and show that same clip again. It's kind of like padding. I personally do not care for it. But so finding ways to craft your whether it's interviews or content, uh, so that it gets people's interest, keeps their interest, but doesn't reiterate itself over and over again. It can be very, uh, very tricky. Um, so yeah, find, find that, that niche that really, you know, matters to you and that you're willing to make that, that really passionate content about, because you're going to find other people that will. You're You also find a lot of haters that are like, got nothing, but you know, well, we'll talk about that later. Um, you know, but ultimately what it's led to is people, um, the people that I do the videos about, like the pitches that they're, you know, the entrepreneurs are coming on Shark Tank, uh, the call to action is, hey, reach out to me in the comments and we'll schedule an interview. Um, I wish I had more time to do, to interview all of them all the time. I, I have pared it down to just 1 hour a week. Um, that's 1 hour before game night with the boys. So I, I've already like— my kid duties and stuff is kind of already like taken care of, uh, by my wife on that night. And so I do the interview, and then, um, sometimes, sometimes I miss game night with the boys because the, the conversation goes and goes and goes after we stop hitting record. And those are the relationships that we, you know, Nicole, uh, was talking about earlier that are just so awesome to be able to get to have these great conversations, really in-depth conversations that sometimes I'm like, damn, I wish I was still recording. But, you know, here we are. Though they wouldn't say a lot of the things that they say with the recording still on. So give and take there. What time is it? So we got time for some questions before our next speaker's time is here. Is there any questions? Any questions that anybody has in the short term. What's up, man? So besides the thumbnail stuff in the beginning, you upload a video to YouTube, there's like 4 pages of options and different things you can add. What would you say are the most important things to make sure you're doing to maximize discoverability? There's not a whole lot. So I personally use, uh, TubeBuddy, which you can see that little icon right there., that shows you a lot of analytics based on the video which you're looking at. Um, TubeBuddy is great. I have an affiliate link if anybody wants it. I think it includes a discount or something. Um, but the, the effectively the only things that, uh, you know, I'll pull it up real quick. So In the backend— YouTube Studio. Can you all hear me still? Yeah. Okay. So in the backend, you— oh no, no, I have to verify that it's me. I was locked in that whole time. I mean, in the meantime, somebody like totally could have, you know, done a lot in my account apparently because I, I was scrolling through it, uh, quite a bit. So if we go to create, upload, I think I can probably upload I do this. No, that's an empty file. I don't know that I have a video that I can upload from here. Let's see, yeah, it's like the smallest file. So I'd have to download it. What if you click the edit button on a video that you already have up there? Oh, that's a good point. So yeah, I can do that. Yeah, thank you, thank you for saving me, Ross. Uh, okay, so like this video here, so the most— I mean, so what I, what I do is I— the description, um, you know, I have a template that, that automatically fills in that you can get from the settings if you go to settings and go to upload defaults. So I had a default thing and you'll see like, so it says like business strategist Joe Pardo reacts and gives his advice to the business. And I put like a little underscore pitch from Shark Tank, Shark Tank season blank episode blank. So that's where you're capturing your, your like Shark Tank season 7 episode 22. Um, when it comes to your title, you want your title to be less than 50 characters so that it can be seen on every single platform. Most platforms, like, it'll— I think it'll tell you by default, like, if you go over 70, not everyone will be able to see it. But it— but if you want to be able to capture every, uh, like, every platform that runs YouTube, it's 50 characters because some of them will truncate it. So you don't want, like, the most important thing to just not show up for somebody. Um, and then at the bottom I also put their, their link to the, the company's website, uh, as well. So that, um, so you got your, your thumbnail, you got your— so playlists I, I think are kind of important even though they're not like, at least in my case, they're not the most important driver of, uh, of, of traffic, but they definitely help, uh, for you to be able to share out like a whole playlist or add a playlist to your website which I've done, and then it also helps you like create, you know, your, your homepage, right? So here I have right at the top, I do Shark Tank interviews, and that's for anybody who actually— there isn't a whole lot of people that go to the homepage. I mean, how many people here go to the homepage of a YouTube channel? You, you should. I mean, I, that's, I mean, that's the place I go. Like if I want, if I find like stumble across a video that I like the first place I'm going is their homepage to see like what other videos do they have. Do I vibe with that content, or at least the descriptions or the titles of that content? And then I'll go and, uh, and either hit the subscribe button or I'll watch another video from that homepage. So then I have Shark Tank under it, and there's Judge Judy, and there's a, uh, a show that I, I shot and starred in. And then I did shorts at the bottom. And then my other channels, which has a whopping 7 subscribers. So I should have brought— why did I not bring my bell with me? Ding ding. Um, so yeah, so playlists are important, uh, for, for that kind of stuff. Tags. So this is what I mostly use TubeBuddy for, is it recommends tags to you based upon what you type in. So if I like type in bingo, it'll give me all these recommendations, um, of things and And then, uh, you can also do like keyword research in TubeBuddy, which is pretty nice. Um, it enables you to be able to see, are you a good fit for that video? Like, is your channel a good fit? Uh, and stuff like that. And then you also have— I'm sorry, do you use those for your title too when you get the keyword research? Um, no, because what I've found is it doesn't Like, well, keywords don't really matter. I think what's nice about keywords here with, with TubeBuddy though, is it tells these green numbers here, tell me where I rank. So this one here, Bango Shark Tank 2023, I'm number 1. Bango Shark Tank blog, I'm number 6. Bango Shark Tank now, I'm 28. And Bango Shark Tank today, 22. So I mean, that's— and then there's all these recommendations under here. So I don't even know that the description really matters because at this point YouTube is like tearing apart all of the dialogue and captioning it so it knows what's in the video. I've heard that it also is analyzing the video to figure out like, oh, this is a cup, and then that becomes part of, you know, like here's a bottle, and then that becomes part of the metadata that it uses to decide who should be viewing that content. Um, but yeah, I would say, I mean, it's funny, like some of the biggest YouTubers out there, like if you use, uh, TubeBuddy, you'll go to their, their site, like their page, and it'll show you that they're like, their SEO is zero. Um, and yet they, I mean, yeah, they have millions of subscribers, but subscribers is not the most important metric. Watch time really is. Um, and returning viewership is, is really the key, uh, the key to like, okay, is this, is this working? Is it not working? Because a lot of people won't hit subscribe. Matt, does that answer, uh, answer your question a little bit? It was really more like the, you know, second, third, fourth pages when you're uploading, which So, okay, so, um, maybe I have a video here. I do have a video. I don't have a, I don't have a quick way of getting it over to here. All right, we can talk about it offline. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that, well, the second, third— all right, hold on, I'll pause. What pages is it for kids? So yeah, yeah, is it for kids? Um, Chapters, is that important? Uploading transcripts? Uh, yeah, I mean, if you have a transcript, that definitely would help. But I mean, I don't know, in my experience, the auto-captioning is pretty good, um, at least as a starting point. Let me see here. Create, upload. Ah, okay, here's what I can do. So I should be able to refresh this page. Did it go to Shorts? I thought that was a separate— ah, here we go. So, okay, so, so you're asking about which pages— the ad suitability? Because I mean, I just breeze right down to the bottom, hit none of the above, and hit submit because I'm not any of the things there. Um, video elements, I don't do. I see that maybe this was a bad video to upload because it It doesn't actually show. It thinks it's a short. Let's see if I have another video right here. I do. Okay, let me upload this. There'll be cards that end screen of that page, right? Yeah, I mean, cards— I mean, how many people click on cards? Does anybody even know what cards are? Really? So, so I got 2 people that— and they— you both click on it? Sure, sometimes. I almost— I mean, I've maybe clicked on like once ever, um, personally. Uh, so you don't do those? I, I think in the beginning I did bother with it. Um, I don't, I don't really bother with it now. Um, so video elements, here we go. So once Uploading. So you got, uh, add subtitles. So if you had subtitles, you could. The one I do do is the end screen, um, and I can show— is this gonna load? It's processing. So in the meantime, let me go here. So with, uh, in regards to end screens, you know, I, I usually give two options. Uh, I'll let the, you know, best YouTube pick best for viewer, and then I'll have an option above it for people to, you know, that are— the video might be linked in some way, shape, or form. So like, if once I interview the person, I'll put that video there at the top. Then if, like, yeah, that would be the only— if it's, you know, other than it being related to that video somehow. And then the subscribe button off to the right. But I think in the analytics you can actually check. I want to say that the— like, it probably, for me, isn't even that big of a, of a driver. It's been a while since I've looked at it, but I want to say it's like 1% or less of people actually click on those end screens. I know I click on end screen cards. The one of the best things you can do though, and, and that I do, even though, you know, it's still like a 1% difference in getting people to watch a second video, which by the way, if you know the best way to get YouTube to know, notice your channel is to get people to watch a whole video, but really it's to get them to get to the next video. You get them on a second video, YouTube's like singing again. I'm just having my own thing, like, we got, you know, we got somebody, you know, roped in and, and we want to get them, you know, watching more of your content. That's really the best way— get them to the next video, whatever you got to do to like make it as great and as interesting as possible. Get them to the next video, then YouTube will all of a sudden start recommending your stuff so much more. Um, but yeah, these other cards, I do them, but it's, it's— I think, I think it's a very minimal, um, uptick in, in the channel. Um, but yeah, as far as that, I don't bother adding cards, um, because again, the, the click rate on that was really low too, and I personally don't I hope I answered your question, Matthew. What's up there, Rob? Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about your philosophy of having a channel that has multiple different shows in it that are, that are distinctive by the playlists and maybe podcast designations. Do you think that's a good strategy or should you just publish one show to one channel? And if you want to have multiple shows, create separate channels. How related are they? They may not be related at all. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Okay, it's— I mean, the commonality is that they're from the same person, so yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, it's tough because like I, I don't ever want to be like classified as the Shark Tank guy. Like it's right, business education first, and I just use Shark Tank as a vehicle to, to accomplish that, right? Um, so like there's other kinds of content that I've done. I, I think that as long as you're serving that same niche of people, uh, I think that's more important than, than like— because people won't necessarily see it as a commonality thing unless you're like, you have such a huge following that like, you know, I see a Rob Greenlee video, I click on them. Yeah, I'm that simple. I see it, I click on Right. Um, and yes, some people get to that point, but like, I, I would say, um, I asked my community, which is called the Super Community, and I asked them, I said, you know, how many of you, uh, would watch like, uh, video game streaming, right? That I— because like, I, I do business lessons while I'm playing video games. I, I like to multitask, and I've done it while I'm playing with my kids as well, because that's the time that I have in front of a computer that I'm like, okay, I can answer, you know, a business question or whatever. But like, I've had pushback from, from some people that are like, well, I don't really care about video games, or I feel bad asking a question because you're playing with your kids, and things of that nature. Um, so actually that's why I created that second channel, the, the Super Joe Pardo or Super Joe Gaming channel. Um, but it's just not— this doesn't have the kind of traction, um, that the other one does. Not everyone's going to make that jump. Yeah, because it seems like if you spread it up between two channels, then you're competing against yourself in some ways. In some ways you are, yeah. But, you know, if you make it for a different enough niche, then it's not the end of the— like, it shouldn't matter, right? Um, I think she had her hand up first.

I'll get to you, guys. Thanks. Okay, so I have a question. You're talking about your content. So obviously, you know, you want to have like this business niche, but you're seeing that the Shark Tank content is top performing. So where do you draw the line between playing to the niche that you really want to have but also just delivering on what you feel like your audience wants from you?

I really— I'm like, I'm so mad I should text Melissa and get the—

I struggle with this a lot.

Like, yeah, idea. Um, it is. So somebody asked me a very similar question not that long ago. Um, so the, the question being is like, how do you, you walk that line of I want to create said content but it's not doing the business that I would like it to, right? Um, to make it worth the time, right? Because So I, I always say there's, there's three— everybody has three resources: it's time, energy, and money. And to me, the importance is those— it's in that order: time, energy, then money. Um, yeah, I would love to make— in my case, I would love to make more Bar Rescue episodes, um, but they're just not going to do the views. Even the— these, these interviews, right?

Like, you—

I don't know if you can see it all the way back there, but like, most of them— I mean, the newer ones are only getting like 400 views right now. Some of them go up to 1,000, some of them go up to 3,000. But like the time investment, which is why I had to curtail and say, look, I can book one a week and here's the calendar, it's 7 o'clock on Wednesdays, that's it. Like, can't do it, I'll, you know, make some, um, concessions. But for the most part, like, this is that time, this is when I can do it. Um, and You know, especially once you start talking about like, hey, I make money off of this, which one, you know, what, you fall into that trap pretty quick. Like, you know, I can do this video and it might do something or it might not, but how much time am I investing into that, right? How much energy am I investing in that when I could be doing something else? Like, these videos will take, you know, an hour to up to 3 hours to do because, and I don't edit these. By the way, uh, because I don't have time for that. So I— unless there's a reason to go back and edit, like, oh, the dog was barking, you know, the person I'm interviewing, like, I'll just write the timestamps down and then I edit that backwards. Sure. So if there's a reason for me to go back, I do. Um, but when you're, you know, so it's like, okay, I could do this video, uh, you know, this hour to 2 hours of conversation um, and it'll do like 500 views, 1,000 views. In that time, I could produce like 4 Shark Tank episodes of videos.

And so why have you ever thought, like, just be the Shark Tank guy?

So you— I— yeah, I, I mean, I guess in some ways, to some people, I am, right? But I've done stuff outside of that. Like, um, an example of that was in 2022 for about 2 or 3 months, I was producing daily videos, or at least 5, I think 5 days a week. I was doing the Entrepreneur News. So I would take news articles and then I would just like relate them to entrepreneurs and like, how does this matter to somebody who's running a business? And like, what, what, how, what, you know, what can you derive from this and run with it? And that's— I'm— I like to think I'm pretty damn good at that, right? But the problem is is some things would get like, you know, a couple hundred views to 1,000 views, and others would get like 30. And the way I was recording it was at one time I was live streaming, then I would chop that live stream up into individual videos and then send those out throughout the day. So like, the problem I ran into is like, well, I got burnout, um, mostly because the news is really depressing and I was finding myself just getting like like really, really depressed, like going through these articles and trying to figure out like what I want to talk about. I was trying to narrow it down, like, can I just narrow it down to like 3 topics to talk about in a day? And then it turned into like 5, and then it turned into 7, because you just don't know. You're just casting this big wide net to see— oh, Evergrande, does anyone remember Evergrande? Yeah, like that was a big thing, and, you know, each video was like getting like 1,000 views. But, you know, once I stopped being a thing, it, it, like, it just started to, like, ride itself out. So it's, it's wrong. Um, I got— oh yeah, I was just— a quick comment. It seems like YouTube promotes individual videos, not channels anyway, right? Yeah, pretty much. So, so as long as you're putting content up there, it's whether or not YouTube thinks that this is valuable content that they're going to promote. Because if you're not getting promoted by YouTube, you're probably not getting very many views anyway, right? Uh, well, there's two ways. There's search and then there's, uh, the promotion through YouTube. And so why— I have a little bit of both. Some videos do better at promoting the channel, like promoting the video. Some do a lot better through search. Sometimes they can kind of cross over where it starts out search and gets over there, but not very often. So it makes it kind of tough because like everybody's searching for sharp, that, that thing on that night. And yeah, it's, it, it's tough. But, um, getting back to your— is it Isabella?

Isabella.

Um, I, I don't know that there's any right or wrong way to, to do it. I, I think you just have to weigh out every option of like, is the— is this going to give me a return on my time that, uh, that I'm looking for. And, and I think it is important to push the boundaries too of a channel, like constantly be looking to add stuff or, you know, different nuance to what you're doing. I, you know, but I, I mean, I, I've watched a ton of YouTube for a long time now, uh, and watching the YouTuber burnout videos where they're like, I'm quitting, or I'm right, just, you know, and getting to look into the those psyches and where they're at. Um, you know, I love tech, but like, I— and I was going to do a tech channel as well as this, uh, but then I started thinking like, I don't really want a bunch of boxes sitting around my house. Like, I don't— like, with people just sending me stuff that like endlessly feeling like I have to review it and I have to go through this whole endless like dredger, you know, turn something I love into something I dread. So I was like, yeah, I don't think that that's for me. So I mean, I made a couple of videos but never really pursued it because it's just tough. Did you have a comment?

Thank you.

Well, let me get the guy. Got him.

No, I—

You're welcome. So I mean, I don't know if this is useful for anybody, but just a couple of points. Most of my friends are at Google, so they're all at YouTube. So there are ways to actually hack and beat the algorithm, which may come into use. So for example, the like button is one of the most important components. And the frequency at which the like button is clicked after a video is put up over the next 24 hours determines to a very large degree how popular the video is going to do.

So, um, I've also heard though that the like— that your use of the like button is weighted. So if you click like on every video you watch, right, it's not as valuable as the person who almost never clicks on it. That's true.

That's 100% true. Um, so essentially one of the things— there's a great podcast, uh, podcaster and YouTuber named Mr. Ballen. Uh, you have to check him out because what he does is he's gamified the experience of people clicking the like, like button. He incentivizes them to do it, uh, and you can do it in any way. You can say that if you like what this guest said, hit the like button instead of saying if you like my video, hit the like button. You give them an alternative reason to do it. Um, Mr. Ballen, what he does is he's made the like button into a character in his own videos. So he keeps messing with the like button and basically talks about how he's torturing the like button or doing this. And that's how he gets people to click on it. And that's basically one of the main reasons why he's increased. Another way is transcripts are how YouTube searches for videos. So you go to Trends, like you said, and through the course of your video, you basically add the highest keyword ranking words within the course of your video, you'll automatically trend higher. So you somehow contextualize it into your video, you'll automatically rank higher. The next is you figure out the property that YouTube is trying to promote. So right now they're trying to promote Shorts and they're trying to promote podcasts. So you should put your content in Shorts and podcasts and automatically get 2 to 2.5x on a return on that. Um, and, uh, another thing is you should claim your Knowledge Graph on your Google SERP. Uh, on your search, when you type your name, um, it'll always give you an option to claim your Knowledge Graph, claim, claim that this is me. If you claim your Knowledge Graph, then anything you take out as a YouTube video will start to come on you on when people search your name. So it'll be coming on the first page of Search itself, which automatically drives up your search numbers on a monthly basis. So it indexes you in various different ways. Um, yeah, so I mean, there are a few others, but the last one I'll say is that if you have uptake in a video over the first 24 hours, uh, you'll probably upload 20 videos and one will do a little bit better than the others for the first 24 hours. Put money behind that video. And then that video will have leakage to the other videos, spillage in terms of the number of listeners or viewers. So these are small ways to just keep beating the system and basically, yeah, if that helps. That channel's Mr. Who? Mr. Ballen, B-A-A-L-L-E-N, and he basically works with people from YouTube, so Everything he does, he's just doing to beat the system. So he's had one of the fastest growing YouTube channels in history.

I don't—

I don't—

I think I, I think I was thinking of, um, uh, Patrick Boyle. I don't know if anybody watches it. Probably lots of Patrick Boyle. I've seen this stuff come across my search every once in a while. Super dry humor, financial humor. Um, but yeah. No, thank you, God. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I mean, there's always things happen. I won't bore you with all the details. There's a video from the Spiffing Brit that he just like broke YouTube because apparently if you open up the same video on multiple tabs, it wasn't counting it as multiple views on the live stream. But if you open it in a different window, it absolutely did. So he took his like 20,000 people that would normally watch it and said, hey, open up as many windows as you can., and then it went through the roof, and all, all of them were playing different, um, different ads, and nobody apparently— YouTube apparently caught up with it until he tweeted about it, and then they were like, oh, oh, we gotta, we gotta, we got a problem here. But, uh, but yeah, it's just probably— I mean, it definitely has been— he chose examples of where it's probably been used in other cases but not to the level in which he was doing it with his actual audience, like opening up 20, 30 tabs each, or, uh, Windows each. But, um, but yeah, any, any other questions?

Yeah, everyone.

Yeah, so obviously, you know, the ad revenue is up and down based on the video. Have you ever thought, uh, because I know you've done business coaching in the past, do you promote any kind of your own products in your videos? So, uh, time, money, or time, energy, money. Um, I don't have a ton of time to do like one-on-one coaching anymore because I'm at the shop every day. Um, so I don't bother promoting that there. Uh, what I do promote is my shop superjoe.com, which has like merchandise like hats and t-shirts and clothing and stuff. Um, I did promote this event So for what that's worth, um, uh, but I, you know, I, I don't, uh, yeah, I don't do the one-on-one coaching because of just time. Like, it would have to be paid so much to like— yeah, so I've had a few people come through, but like, like I said, it just isn't the time. That's just not feasible for me right now. Um, plus the other thing is, is I, I feel like I don't want to promote other people's products personally. Like, I don't— I've had only a couple people even reach out, so— and one of them was for fake money, and it was like super early on, like when I started doing Shark Tank. It was fake money as in like, uh, show money. I don't know what's up. Tim, what's the term? Sorry, cryptocurrency? No, sorry, uh, no, like you would do it in a movie. Acting just like, yeah, thank you. So, uh, and I was like, ah, that seems kind of silly. Like, why would I— they're like, oh, you just use it in the thing and then like, but, you know, put the link in the description or whatever. And I was like, yeah, I don't really, you know, go back to like the tech example. I don't really want to be beholden to like some company and having to like do that constant like hamster wheel of get thing, put put things in video, figure out how I can make things fit into video and do all that. So I, I'm trying to make it as easy for me as possible. And the way to do that is promoting my own merch, or, or if I had— I have a couple of courses on my site, but like, it's just not— it, you know, the— to me, the more important thing is, is ad revenue. While it does go up and down, it produces when I'm not doing anything, you know. Like, I barely have posted over the summer because I've been so busy, like, doing stuff with kids, vacations and everything, that I'm like, yeah, well, you know, sure, it's down, but I also haven't— I haven't been posting, so I'm not— I'm not super worried about it. Um, Shark Tank starts up again at the end of this month, and then I'll— then it'll go back up. Yeah, so it's, it's not, uh, you know, the— and there's plenty of episodes for me to do outside of just Shark Tank. Hear like new episodes. I have plenty of old episodes. I have every episode available to me. Um, and then there's other countries, right? There's Shark— I've had requests for Shark Tank India and the Dragon's Den in both Canada as well as, um, the UK and all the other ones. We're right back in time. But it's like, yeah, but it goes back to time. And then it's like, oh well, if I do this, like, will it really get that many views? And if it's it's not gonna get that many views, it's like, yeah, is it really, you know, right? If I had— if I was retired and had no kids, little kids at home, sure, you know, whatever, like all day, why not? What else am I doing? But yeah, so that's, uh, that's it. Was there any other questions anybody had? We'll be talking about comments later, later on. Um, and if anybody has any questions about analytics feel free to shoot, you know, come talk to me. Um, very much available. All right, so at this time we have a speaker. Let me just get this back over. All right, so, uh, at this time I'd like to introduce our next speaker here. So, uh, can I get some super claps for Super Steve? All right, thank you, thank you, thank you. Welcome, Steve. Happy to have you here.

Good to be here. Super gentleman. Thank you. Left my notes here because I forget a lot. And, uh, thanks, Steve Cooper. I host Cooper Talk. I did not play Uncle Junior in The Sopranos, so get that straight. No, Cooper Talk is a show I hosted, uh, it's been for 12 years. I have 973 episodes posted.

I interview—

woo, thank you— I interview a lot of rock and roll drummers, a lot of actors. I interview big guests. I've had David Duchovny on, Steven Van Zandt. I've had 30 members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I started it when I lived in Los Angeles. There wasn't a lot of podcasts going. I had the background, I was a stand-up comedian, from 1988 to '95. So I got some insight to the entertainment world. Then I eventually moved to LA. I did some comedy writing, I did some acting, I did some other things. I ended up in restaurant marketing because I think everyone in LA at one point works in a restaurant. And at a convention— well, actually at a conference, a business conference, one of those Chamber of Commerce things— I met a guy who ran an independent radio station and someone said it seemed to be good to have a show. I'd never done it. I said, well, why not? So I went to this indie station, internet station, and they gave me an hour show. 30 minutes was music, 30 minutes was guests. Well, I'd never interviewed anyone, but I said, you know what, I want to get good guests. So that's where I started. Now, what do you— constitutes a good guest? I want to be more interactive. What constitutes a good guest to you people?

Give me anyone. Someone who can like appeal to your audience's like emotions, what they're looking for from you.

And how, how would you find someone like that?

I mean, I like to like ask my audience questions like in polls on social about what they're looking for and then try to find people who based on what they've done kind of fits that feel. I like to use Instagram for outreach.

Okay, anyone else?

What constitutes a good guest? Good content is content that makes you laugh, cry, think, groan, educate, or entertain, preferably more than one at a time.

For me, I'll be honest.

Yeah, and also adds to your content strategy as a host. It's additive, not a replacement for, I think, your place as the host of the program, which people will more consistently tune in to hear you. So this guest needs to add to your philosophy and your content strategy, not a replacement for.

Is my— way in the back. Right.

I like to do something a little off the mainstream, so it's not what people can get kind of anywhere.

You know, I mean, so I got confused. These things turn around all the time anyway. You ever notice that? You walk around, you're like, holy shit, I don't know this guy's name.

It's backwards. Okay, right on the back. Well, somebody you're passionate about talking to, because if you're not interested, then how are you gonna—

and they're all great answers. And they'll see— and every host learns to be different. Like me, I actually ended up in a niche for a while of drummers. Okay, I was at a party in the Hollywood Hills of a drummer who I interviewed from a punk band called the Circle Jerks. Huge indie punk band, no lie. Now, people did not know that he's also a tax attorney. He had a $6.2 million mansion in the Hollywood Hills. So I find myself at this party, and he had done my show. So I asked him, I go, who here is good to be a guest? And he introduced me to somebody who became a very good friend of mine, uh, Rich Redmond, who was Jason Aldean's drummer. So from that, Rich started sending me drummers. I got Lorie DeVito from Billy Joel. I would get those. So my niche for a while was drummers. My other niche is character actors, because people don't like— people don't know who character actors are. You know what a character actor is? It's a person you know their face but you don't know their name. If you watch Better Call Saul— does anyone watch Better Call Saul? Okay, well, after the first season, the guy who plays Howard Hamlin, his name is Patrick Fabian. Love that guy. Well, I said, I want to get him on my show. So I talked to an actor friend of mine and I said, hey, get me Patrick. So Patrick did my show. No one knew who he was. No one was really interviewing those actors. Well, as the show has gone on, he's done my show 2 more times, and he did it after the season finale. So I went out and I just started getting people I wanted to get, and I did a lot of it through networking. We all know networking, right? Now, what, what do you consider networking?

Um, networking is meeting people that you may not have normally come across in your regular life and using their resources.

Yeah, it's true, because every guest knows someone. Okay, you go out, get any guest. I got the drummer from Blondie because I interviewed the bassist from the Sex Pistols and we hit it off. And I said, hey man, can you hook me up? And most of the time guests will say yes, because what you don't understand is celebrities or actors, they are people that they want to be heard. There's a reason why we perform. We're half narcissistic and we're half insecure. That's why I did stand-up comedy. That's what we do. Actors want to be heard. So they're the best guests because, one, you don't do a lot of work because you can ask them questions and they'll go on forever. So now, how is the way some of you have gotten— a weird way you've gotten guests? Because I'm going to tell you, there's always a chance to get a guest. Someone raise a hand. What's an odd— okay, what's an odd way? The man with my same last name. What's What's an odd way that you've gotten a guest?

I like, uh, powerful husbands.

But how did you, how did you book a powerful husband?

Uh, I cold emailed, limited to 2 sentences, and referenced some other famous person that gives credibility.

Well, any, anyone gonna guess an odd way? So I'm gonna give you 3 very odd stories how we got guests.

Anyone?

An odd way that's not conventional?

Okay, standing in line at a registration desk. And what happened? I overheard him talking about what he was doing with his wife and some of the activities he was doing. I think it was at a National Senior Game. He just sounded really interesting, and I introduced myself and got him on the show. I got it. I was at line. I was in line getting like continental breakfast, and I said, you know, something, something, something upstate, and the woman behind me goes, upstate? I'm from upstate. And I looked at her and I was like, bullshit, no one's from upstate. And she was like, no, I'm from Albany. Turns out she's like this big Forbes writer, um, and now we like create content and stuff together.

Yeah, you can find them anywhere. I got— there's an actor named Eric Palladino. He was on ER, he was recurring on CSI Los Angeles, he's been in— you know who he is— he's been in a ton of stuff. He was in Suits. And I got Eric, no lie, I got this guest, I was buzzed, leaving a happy hour. And I was walking home when I lived in Burbank. I'm walking up the street and I thought my wife— well, my girlfriend then, now my now wife— was gonna be pissed off at me because I was late. So whenever I went to happy hour, I ended up staying too long. And so I stopped to get onion rings because we were having chili that night. Now I'm waiting in line at this place called Foster and Freeze. There's a guy sitting there and I go, man, you look familiar. And he has his two kids running with him and we start talking. And I go, you I said, you're an actor. He told me who he was, and I asked him to do my show, and he did. And it's the way you can get guests anywhere. There's so many different ways you can get guests— Twitter, Facebook. You know, if you're trying to get celebrities, a lot of them are very attainable. Musicians are very attainable.

I've just—

I've had 30 members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on my show. Do we have any Springsteen fans? I've got 4 past and present members of his band. I've had Steven Van Zandt, I've had Nils Lofgren, I've had David Sanchez, and I've had Vinnie Mendez Lopez. All very attainable because what happens is musicians like to talk and they're always promoting stuff. So with musicians, how I learned to get guests was you go through a PR person, and PR people are basically found by going to their website. Now with actors, their PR people are a pain in the ass because they don't usually get back to you. But if you want to get a good musician, just reach out. That's the thing, you should always sit there. There is never a guest too big for you. Okay, no matter what you think, you have to be prepared. I interviewed an actor and his PR guy came in, and after the interview I said, listen, I said to his PR guy, I said, who else do you handle? And he sent me a list, and one of them was Ed Asner, the legendary Ed Asner. I thought, there's no way in hell Ed Asner is doing my show. But I asked, I said, I had confidence in myself, and I said, you know what, what's the worst you can do? You can say no. Next thing you know, a few weeks later, there's Ed waddling into the studio because I recorded in LA, and I got him. And that's the thing, so many people sell themselves short. Guests want to talk. And that's another thing, when you book a guest, always make sure that you're the host. Don't be a fanboy or a fangirl. They hate that. A lot of times I talk to young podcasters and they send me these letters they write. I go, man, you sound like a stalker. Don't tell them you're a huge fan. Don't sit there and go, oh, I love your work, you're the best, because they're going to go, is this person going to interview me, or are they going to sit there and actually just fawn over me? So always sit there, they're on your level, because the bottom line is it's your show. My show is called Cooper Talk, it's about me. And she had to talk about being a host, you know, it's not— it's a thankful position because you sit there, your listeners want to hear your guests. So you can sit there, you can get guests anywhere. The problem is a lot of people don't try to get them. And also with networking, I got a friend of mine who wanted to do comedy. His wife is a big character actor. Her name is Rose Abdou. Rose came on my show. She was involved with Second City in Chicago. Well, I said, you know, who are some of your friends? She ended up getting me Neil Barlowes, who wrote My Big Fat Greek Wedding. She got me Kate Flaherty from The Office. She got me Susie Nakamura, just because I asked and I was nice. And I said, listen, You know, don't be a pain. Also, when it comes to getting guests, who books a lot of guests here? Okay, how often do you follow up with your guests? If someone doesn't respond, what's your leeway of getting back to them?

Give them about a week or so and try again.

And now, how long will you do this? 3 times. Okay, and then you just say, to hell with it, right? I'm saying to hell with it to a guy from the Christian podcast, I apologize. No, so it's— but you sit there and you don't chasing too much. That's the thing, some guests will take forever. I've had guests I had to wait for. I just waited for a guest for a year and it was actually one of the worst interviews I ever had. I was very disappointed. And because he didn't want to talk about his band, The Replacements— his name is Tommy Stinson, who I love— The Replacements— he wanted to talk more about his solo album. I usually do an hour interview, I cut it off at 25 because there's really nothing to talk about. And that's the way it is. But I waited because sometimes you have to be patient. But you can't also— you can't keep bombarding them. Important. And give a good query letter. Who knows what— who has a good— who thinks they have a good query letter? How do you— how do you get your guests?

I ask, but I mean, basically, I heard you on this show, you have this expertise, I have people who need that expertise, and I make it fit like a glove. Like, it's, it's a no-brainer that you want to be heard, I have people who want to hear you, and they go, I only know one person that's turned me down.

Okay.

And that's weird because he lives 45 minutes from me.

Now, how do you start the letter? Do you always put, hey, hello? How do you go? Because I always wonder, because I never know. Because when you're dealing with PR people, you don't want to say hey.

Okay, so my thing to you would be, hey Steve, I heard you, uh, IndiePodCon, and I loved your talk about getting new guests. I have a ton of people who do interviews. I teach people how to podcast. And your expertise obviously is something that's been built on for years. I'm going to kind of butter you up a little bit, uh, and then say, are you interested in coming on my show?

That's it. See, that's perfect.

Now what were you gonna say? Um, so I reached out to like somebody from L'Oreal one time, and I— so I always start my message off like anecdotally. I don't like to be like, hey, blah blah blah. So I was like, literally just put away my L'Oreal mascara, had to reach out to you, need to you about XYZ, been using this since I was 8 years old. Like, I like to make it more of a narrative because that's how I'm also going to be with you when I'm talking to you.

See, that's good.

I always—

I start off, I'll be honest, I start a letter, I go, hello, again, my name is Steve, I host the show Cooper Talk. I always call it an organic chat. I never say it's an interview because everyone's saying I want to interview your clients. And I just go up there and I list who's been on the show, and I want to say I'd like to set it up with their earliest convenience. Now, the thing you have to know is You're gonna get a lot of non-responses, and you can't get hurt by it because when you look at it, there's 1,000 guests out there, more than that. And I do get bent— I mean, we get bent out of shape sometimes if a smaller podcast gets to act that you got turned down for it, but it happens. You can't worry about it. That's the thing, you have to have confidence. So come across and ask for guests. Get your guests, get the dream guest. No one's too small for you. I mean, given I've interviewed, as I said, 973 episodes, I've interviewed a lot of big names, but I'm not going to reach out for Bradley Cooper because there's no way— you know, the same last name— there's no way he's going to do my show. It's just, you know, there's certain things. But that's the thing, just be confident. Be confident for you getting guests and you'll do fine. Now how about you? How do you get your guests? I am just—

that's—

oh yeah, I'm going crazy. So anyway, I start talking, I get very passionate. It's from my years in the stand-up. I got to ramble.

I don't prepare. I can tell you how not to get guests.

Okay, tell me.

I get pitched all the time and it's, hey, I heard and love your show. So number one, I'm not an egomaniac, but I do say my name at the beginning of every show. So, hey Dave, would be good. Love your show. Great, which one? I have 4 at least. So already I know this person doesn't listen to my show. So at this point, I've almost written you off. All you have to do is prove this much that you listen to my show, which means you have this much of a chance of knowing who my audience is, which means you have this much than the person that just does freight impressions.

And so I have a guy pitch a submarine cap.

I do a podcast about podcasts, right? I'm like, so if you can prove that you listen to the show, you are miles ahead of anybody else.

That's funny. I actually had someone— this is no lie— I had a local local writer. I have nothing against local writers, okay? But the week he sat there and sent me— I knew he wasn't listening to my show because, you know, 3 weeks before, I had Kenny Jones, who was a drummer for The Who and The Faces. Next, I had Steve Smith, who was a drummer for Journey, and Simon Kirk, who was a drummer for Bad Company. This guy says I can promote my local book. I'm like, you don't listen to my show. It's nothing against— you have to be smart. So anyway, I want to take questions about getting guests because I like, I like to be interactive. Uh, first of all, if you message someone on Facebook, be polite. Always. You can get a lot of guests through Facebook if you're not friends with them. I've been lucky because I've interviewed a lot of actors. I'm friends with different actors who I don't know. But if you don't know someone, their letter or something goes into the other box. So give them a little time, follow up every few weeks. Does anybody have any questions about getting quality guests? Because I love to give you answers.

Okay, what's a good way to like I want the guest, but I also want to be on their podcast, is that an ask? Is that something I should wait and see how it goes and then ask after?

If you want a person who's going to be a guest on your show to be on their podcast, like if I want to, like if I want to be on other people's podcasts, you just ask. I mean, I don't really do that much. I don't do a lot of podcasts. I get asked, but I know people who just ask, and a lot of times people will have it if you have an interesting story, you know. Of course, like what he said, you have to know the guess you're going to ask to be on. I mean, you're not going to sit there and send Marin a message, which Marin was on my show when I did it just as an internet radio show, and that was when I first started out. I wish I had to record it because it was— he's a legend now. But you just ask. So anything— what were you gonna ask about?

You had your hand up earlier. How do you— what's the wording that you use if you're gonna send an email or even a Facebook message?

How do you, uh, sort of Facebook messages, okay, I would just say, hi such and such. And now I will say, I've noticed a bunch of our mutual friends have been on my show. Now I give a little explanation of the show. If I send it to the PR person, I have a form letter and I say in the last 2 years, and I put musicians. Now if it's for musicians, I have a musician letter. I only mess with musicians. If it's for actors, I have an actor letter. And if you're TV writers, which is, you know, they're great by the way, people think TV writers, which is a story about getting guests from anywhere. I got the creator from That '70s Show, Mark Brazil. What happened was I was at The Comedy Store at Robin Williams' memorial service. A friend of mine was a big comic, and we ended up sitting with Mark Brazil, and we started talking, and he was very chill. He actually bought us drinks, and because he's probably worth like $30 million, he sold that show. But he sat there, and he got back to me. I added him on Facebook, and I sent a message. I said, hey, listen, I met you last night. Some of these other commentators have been on. And he came in studio because I— he came— was in Burbank. It was an hour show. He came in and he said, I don't do these much, but you seem like a nice guy. And that's the thing also, when you're talking to people, when you talk to guests, always be genuine. You know, you can compliment them. Like, if I'm an '80s musician— I'm an '80s kid. I graduated high school in '82. I graduated college in '86. I am humbled every time Howard Jones has been on my show, or all these people. There's people I grew up with, and I'll tell them a story about one of their songs. I'm not being a fanboy, but I'll open saying, you know, you did this song, it meant a lot. I tell the story. Always be nice to your guests, always be polite, always thank them and ask them if they can hook you up. A lot of times they won't respond. It's just like you ask them to share your show, a lot of times they won't, but a lot of times they do. So just be genuine. I mean, I think that's the whole thing. If you're just genuine with your guests, it's going to it's going to come across. And a lot of times they will recommend you. I've, I've hit up actors I know and said, hey, can you get this person? And I've gotten guests I never thought I would have gotten. So just keep plugging away. That's the best advice I can have. And no guest is too big, but make sure you're ready because you have a big guest. I mean, I was intimidated. I've done a ton of interviews. I interviewed Steven Van Zandt from Springsteen a year ago. I'm a huge Springsteen fan. I also love The Sopranos. I also love his show, Loa Haber. I was intimidated. I sat there, he popped up my Zoom, and I'm like, holy, it's Stephen Van Zandt. And unfortunately, I thought it'd be funny, so I asked him a question whether it was Taylor Pork Roll or Taylor Ham. He's from New Jersey, and he's like, I, I don't know, I'm a vegan. And then I got shattered, but then I just rolled it. We talked for an hour and 10 minutes. And so anyway, any other questions?

Anyone?

No.

Oh, okay. What's up?

I got one. So I'm gonna flip the script on you here. How do you reject a guest? And the reason I asked this is because I have a guest that wants to come on my show, approached me out of the blue. I don't know how he got my name, but, uh, he approached me in my show and we've been emailing back and forth, and I have this Spidey sense, I'm gonna call it, right? That I'm not sure I want this guy in my show. I've seen him on other shows and he interviews well, but just the wording that he has, uh, shot towards me, I'm just like, I don't know if I want you on my show now.

There's a few ways. Well, one, I get a lot, and I mean a lot, of emails from music PR people, and there are bands I've never heard of, and I just sit there, and unfortunately I just don't respond to them. Because I do, if it's someone I know. But I don't, you know, you get— I get probably 20 emails a day from bands I never heard of. But when someone reaches out like that and someone's nice, you know, you want to reject them, I always say, listen, you aren't a right fit for my show. I do it very professional. I always say, you sound interesting, or I'll say to the PR person, they sound like they're interesting, but if you look at my guest list, I get this type of person, this type of this type. I mostly get people for 45 and up. I mean, that's my crowd.

It's the '80s crowd.

It's the actors. So if you're just polite, if they get that out of shape, then they're just, they're just being rude. Because you know how it is now, comic, you know, networkers and podcast networkers talk. We all talk and talk. And also, go out to other networkers. I'm saying networkers. Go to other podcasters, ask them if they'll help you out. I've helped many podcasters get guests. But the same thing, when you do that, Don't sit there and keep asking them. I get people say, hey, how'd you get this guy? I'm like, well, I've been doing this show for 10 years and I know him. They don't even say, hey Steve, how you doing? I had someone go, hey, how'd you get such and such? How'd you get Liz Bassi? I'm like, well, she did my show in LA. They don't say, hey, how you doing Steve? Yeah, what's up? Oh, by the way, can you guys— now if someone reaches out to me and says, hey, I want to get this guy on my show, I will say, all right, you know, I will give you— sometimes I'll give them the email, or I have a few actors that I will reach out to, a guy named Reed Diamond. Great actors. And then the funnest stuff, Reed will sit there and do any show I ask him to because we have a relationship. But if you just sit there and say, get me Reed Diamond, I'm not. But if you say, hey Steve, how you doing, I want to do this. So be polite, you know, but use other podcasters as a, as a tool because most of us will help each other out because we all started— I got lucky. I had a background in comedy. I had, you know, Paul Topples was a big guy. I got lucky with people I knew and knowing entertainers, and I met Cato Kaelin was my first big guest. All people might know who Cato Kaelin is. I met him at a comedy club. I was like, but I was enthralled. And then I'm really dating myself, I got Robbie Benson. I don't know, do you remember Robbie Benson? He was the heartthrob. And I just sent him a blind message on, on, um, Facebook. And his wife Carla DeVito, who's in the Meatloaf video, she said he'd love to do it. And that's the thing, when you get it— and that's the one thing you'll notice when you get a good guest I compare it to like when you're a kid and collecting baseball cards. It's that feeling when you open the pack and you get a good guess. There's, there's not a better feeling. So basically, just keep going out and booking and keep doing it. If you need, you know, I'll give you my info if you want to ask questions about getting guests, or I'll send you a copy of my query letter. I'd love to help any podcaster out because we're all in this together. So before I go, any other questions?

Yes.

Um, what would you say is one of your most memorable or favorite interviews that I really like—

there's a character actor named John Polito. I don't know who John Polito is. He's in all the Coen Brothers movies. Now, John always plays a tough guy, and he's very openly gay offstage, and I didn't know that. The first time I met him was the first— he was the first celebrity I met in Hollywood, and he came up and he— I smoked cigarettes at the time— say, hello, do any of you thespians have a cigarette? I'm like, oh my God, it's John Polito, you know. So he ended up doing my show 2 years later, and he's from Philly and I grew up in South Jersey, and we had the best conversations. He was so good. But you know, people ask me that— I've had so many good interviews. I mean, when you do 970, I forget. Like, I'll be watching TV and I'm like, oh my God, that guy was on my show. A lot of times I'll get guests. If my wife watches TV, she'll go, oh, you should get this actor on your show. So I do it. This is a quick story. Well, my wife— I started dating my wife, she was in South Jersey, I was living in Los Angeles. For a year and a half I was bicoastal and she would come out to see me and I would always try to impress her. She loved Seinfeld, so I got a Seinfeld writer on the show. Kate Flaherty from The Office. I would always get guests that made me, me look good because, you know, I'm a bald lazy-eyed guy and my wife's beautiful, so I had to make myself look good. But I always got guests to impress her and it's always like, it's something about— there's been so many guests that I, I— it's so hard to say.

I've had—

I've had any bad interviews. One was a big I'm not gonna say her name. She was an awful— she was nicest person, but we talked about an awful interview because she was a big partier in the day. I wanted to talk about her partying, but she just wanted to talk about being a drug counselor, which is fine, but that's not what my show is about. I don't get for the dirt, but I want people to talk and be genuine. So that's all. So any other questions? All right, well, I'm gonna give it back to Super Joe.

Thank you so much, Steve. The Ed Asner story, uh, got me. A friend of mine, um, uh, was at Disney— was it D23? And he was like there way at the end. It's like a convention for Disney nerds, way at the end. And he's wandering around and he bumps into Ed Asner and they have like this whole— ended up having like this whole conversation up until Ed's, uh, family came to pick him up. Uh, so yeah, really sad. Uh, rest in peace, Mr. Asner. Very, very big fan. Um, anyway, uh, the food is half here. Um, so unfortunately the, the caterer is running behind, so we have some of the stuff. Um, Glorianne, would you, would you be up I'm sorry, I said yes before. Yes, yeah, you did say that. Would you be up to speaking now instead of later? Um, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, you don't have to say yes. We could, I mean, we could take a break.

I mean, no, I mean, the first part of my speech was, um, you know, thanks for coming back after lunch.

Oh, okay. I can, I, somebody can steal that from you.

I'll take it.

All right, everybody give it up for Glorianne.

All right, so that just means I don't have to be nervous for, you know, 45 more minutes. So my name is Glorianne, and thank you for being patient as we wait for the of our lunch, right? That works. So, um, I don't know if you noticed that I came in around the 10 o'clock hour. Um, did you share what your podcasts were about? Could you just give me a quick, um, overview? You know, hey, my podcast is about, uh, history. I don't know where our history friend went to. Um, he's gone. I know. Um, because— go ahead. Okay. Um, so I host a podcast called the Pop Culture Retrospective, um, podcast, which I started after my sister, um, passed away. Um, she's a teacher and an artist and stuff, but she also struggled with mental illness, and that's ultimately what, um, took her life, unfortunately. So So I started the show about a year after she passed away. So I take a look back at all the stuff that we were into as kids and sort of research it and explore it more. I have guests on too related to pop culture. So I focus on the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s, and I've covered everything from Nirvana to extinct department stores to extinct restaurants to Tupac to whoever you I can think of anything that we sort of grew up listening to, watching, doing, eating. Um, that's what I cover. So, okay, yeah, great. Anybody else want to tell me what the heck they're doing?

Uh, I'm Dave Jackson. I run the School of Podcasting where I help people plan, launch, grow, and monetize their show.

Okay, great. Anyone else? So what, what do you do? What is yours?

Yes, I have 9.

So, okay, well, um, why do you have 9?

Um, because I work for the federal government, so I have 6 through them and then 3 of my own.

Okay, tell me about your own.

Yes, great. Create Art Podcast, which they helped me rename.

Oh, Tim?

Yes, me. That's Tim that we missed yesterday. Oh, sorry about that. So sorry, we got in late to Philly.

No work. I brought Okay, okay. So I got Creator Podcasts, uh, where I help my audience, uh, team their inner critic.

Wait, hold on, what about the inner critic?

Uh, tame their inner critic.

Tame their inner critic.

Yes, great. Um, I have the other one is Find a Podcast About, and that's where I help my audience beat the algorithm, outsmart the algorithm, and find their next pitch worthy podcast, and my newest one, which is called Cannabis Stories. I don't have a quick tagline for that, but if you know what cannabis is, then choke it up and have a good time with it.

That works, that works, right? Um, all right, so it's really funny. I'm here to talk about, um, centering the human in your podcast in order to, um, create those emotional bonds that keep them coming back for more, that make them want to share with their friends so that you get more listeners. And again, they come back for you. So is everybody interested in that, or should I change it? So I am going to do a little bit of changing. I don't know who I thought my audience was gonna be when we got here, but I typically speak to a lot of women, and I have this kind of touchy-feely story, and I'm still gonna share it because I think it's important, but I am gonna do a little adaptation here. So let's see, we did that, we did that. I said yes to this not realizing that in the end— I— well, it's not even the end, it's in the middle— that I'm gonna— I'm like super excited to reboot my own podcast, which was so much work, which is why I set it down. And my podcast is called Miss in Informed, and it's M-I-S-S as in Miss, Mrs., whatever, um, Informed. And so I want to thank you for inspiring me to pick that back up. I'm going to figure out how to put that into my schedule. It'll be okay, everything will be fine. So I have, um, no cards for a reason, and that's because I don't want to get off track, which obviously I have already done because, I mean, my first one was blank. So we, um, new program, new program. What is my new program? So, okay, I got it, got it, got it. Sorry, I had to get myself back here. Um, so I am Glorianne Jones, and, um, I help entrepreneurs rebalance themselves across the mind, body, and their soul. So I'm a mindset coach, basically. And I kind of set that aside because I'm probably more known for my locally world-famous chocolate tea line, which is Chocolate Escape. Self-care. So if you are in upstate New York, if you are in the Berkshire area, you probably heard about my teas. So that's cool, which is why I am locally world famous. So if you ask me for— the reason I'm telling you this is if you ask me for a business card, you will get a tea business card with all MIT information, but it is me and I wanted to connect the dots for you. All right, so why my notes? I already told you that I often go off on a tangent. I have 18 minutes, I think we have, and I still have not even started to talk about the points that I have for you, which is 10 of them. I've already used used 3 of them: empathy, inclusion, and normalization. So as you are sharing with your guests, as you are talking about yourself and what you want to bring, you know, the information you want to bring to them, taking these words— empathy, inclusion, and normalization— will help to connect and create those bonds that will keep your listeners engaged and coming back. So, do— who thinks that emotion is an important part in their work here?

Okay.

Do you do it intentionally?

Yes. Yes, I know. I don't force it. It happens.

It happens. Okay, another question for you. This is off script here. Your audience, is it mostly men or women, or do you appeal to everyone?

Mine is women. Men, probably 60% of that, 40%.

That's a good split. Yeah, let's get that. Okay, I've shared with you, um, that I'm using my notes because I have a bit of a weakness, and that is keeping myself organized, right? Um, and my superpower here— we had Super Joe up here, we had a lot of supers before names, right? Is adaptation. My first line of my talk was literally, hey, thanks for coming back after lunch. So that was an adaptation for myself. So do you remember when I spoke about emotional bonds in the beginning? Okay, you want to evoke in your audience a feeling that is, okay, wait a minute, I want to know what's coming next. I want to know. I'm gonna stay for this. You know, you're— the mind subconsciously is taking a tally of how you feel, and you know, maybe you're gonna be bored and you're done. And you're gonna walk away, no problem. Or maybe you're gonna say, okay, wait a minute, this is a little interesting, I'm not sure what she's gonna say, and maybe I should listen and I could incorporate this. So who here would like to know how to incorporate this a little a little bit more purposeful. Okay, all right, good. Um, so all right, you ask your friends, I ask my friends, you know, hey, what's on Netflix that is a comedy? I feel like watching some comedies, right? Um, or what, did you see that latest, um, scary show? I don't watch scary shows, so I'm a— yeah, by so-and-so. So you're asking people for what makes them feel good. I want comedy. I want to be scared. I want to feel. Everybody wants to feel. It is in our nature to have a— ooh, what's the rest of that? I'm on number 3. I'll go quick. Okay, so right, so now I— there's 5. I mentioned 5 of the tips, and I'm gonna list them at the end so you're like, wait a minute, what is going on? So we have the empathy— I don't know how I could forget empathy— empathy, inclusion, normalization, multidimension. So I have given myself a bit of a multidimensional feel to myself. I have strengths and I have weaknesses. I am an actual person. The people that are listening to you are actual people, and when you can inspire them to have the emotion that you want to bring out in your show, that you want to share with them, that's what we need to do. So A less obvious one, which is now number 5, is a nonlinear narrative. That's when I tell you something in the beginning and I don't explain it, but then I circle back. So it obviously is kind of like that hook. Everybody needs a hook. Confusion and a twist. Are you like, are you kidding me? How are we already on number 6? This is number 6. And I'm going to explain them all. Um, pattern and predictability— we need that. We need that. I already said, and I'm going to say it again because it's important, the subconscious mind that we are hardly ever aware of wants that pattern. It wants that predictability. It is taking the tally, and that is what is going to make people say or go or share. So this is kind of funny. I think that you are on the edge of your seat waiting for number 7. Seriously, who's on the edge of their seat? Okay, yay! Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. So it's tension. Tension is number 7. And if you are not on the edge of your seat, you're probably like, I'm not on the edge of my seat. You can't tell me to be on the edge of my seat. And it's like, again, all of the emotions that you are evoking, everybody is multidimensional. You want to interact with all of those pieces in a person. Okay. So, all right, number 5, you guys. Woo! We're almost there. Lunch is going out, I see it. Emotional resonance. Emotional resonance is, you know, people want to feel. Who are we without feelings? I mean, we're not robots. We are already— oh, AI is going to take over, and how does that make us feel, right? Okay, good, good, good. I got some plastic. Good. So again, is it going to be a stay, or is it going to be a go? Maybe I'm going to share with my friends. And that's obviously where we want to be. We want them to stay and then share. So we need to keep the human-centered emotionally within your talk, within whatever it is you're sharing. Because that's what's keeping them there. And I don't know how many times I keep saying that. I just say it a different way because I really want you to understand how important it is. And I just realized how fast I'm talking. How important it is to hook them in their heart. That's— you couldn't talk about I don't even know, all of these things, but I hear it feels good. Nostalgia, we have two nostalgia. That's another one, I didn't even say that one yet. So the 10 tips, the 10 things that you want to be aware of and naturally put into your talk. Box is empathy, inclusion, normalization. We're all human. I'm gonna take a breath because I'm going a little fast because lunch is up there. Um, multi-dimensional. We make mistakes, we fix things. Um, I am a person full of emotions. You are a person full of emotions. And I think guys have a bad rap of being unemotional, but I know, I know everybody here has a heart, and everybody here has feelings, and everybody here has that ego that says, oh wait, I'm hurt, 'Oh wait, I want to be here,' and that's all driven by your emotions. I talked about— we did nonlinear, out of order. We did it. I'm sorry, I should have spit out my gum. We did the twist or the conflict, sensory, making people feel feel the feels. It's okay to feel the feels. That's what we want. It doesn't always have to be happy. It doesn't always have to be sad. There is so much in between. Okay, tension, conflict, symbolism. We talked about superheroes. I even probably skipped the line where I said if you can get all 10 of these or part of these into your into your experiences, into your chats, then you can put that you've got this superpower, this superpower to reach in and touch people's hearts. And emotional resonance. Emotional resonance is the ability of your content to tap into universal human emotions. We all have them. Joy, sadness, empathy. All the feels. And nostalgia— that nostalgia is huge, and that is also part of the nonlinear story. And it touches your people in a way that makes them feel deeply affected and connected. And it's that connection that's going to keep them coming back, okay? Because I understood that maybe the subscribe button doesn't really always work. But if you have a name and you are consistent and you can connect, they're not gonna forget you because they want to feel that feel again. And if they know that you deliver that on a regular basis, they're gonna come back to you. So a few ways Few things to include: perspective. What is your perspective, your struggle, your aspiration? Does your podcast, YouTube channel evolve, or is it the same? So I like to use the example of a, you know, a high-rise hotel or residency. You have your foundation where everything is kind of set. You know how to get in, you know how to get out, and then each floor is a new sensory experience all the way to the penthouse. And, you know, maybe the penthouse is the last podcast of your season. But people want to take the elevator ride up with you because they know it's gonna be great. Communication. Joe talked about commenting to people and asking what they want. So that's great, but you don't want it to get out of control. So Give your listeners an A or a B. This is a little parenting hack. If you have kids, or I mean, I guess it's everybody's hack. If you want to give the illusion of control, but you still want to have it within your constraints, give them an A or a B. Ask, do you want A, do you want B? Do you— I just did this— do you want to have a chocolate and tea pairing on a Friday, or do you want to have it on a Saturday afternoon? Got lots of responses. I'm gonna have it on both days because it doesn't matter to me, right? But I had that opportunity to bond with my people, and they're excited, and they're, they're gonna show up because I made the extra effort to ask them what they want. So your people are going to show up to whatever it was that they picked because you asked them. And that is, wow, I've been seen, I've been heard. That's a connection. That is what's going to keep them coming back. That's what's going to keep them sharing. Hey, did you hear that Gloria is having a chocolate and tea pairing? On Friday. I totally said I wanted to have it on Friday. I'm so excited that she decided to do that. So, um, oh, values. Okay, so values are super important. I put values in a square. I have no idea what that means. Um, I like, seriously, I was like, oh, I'm going to be really smart and, and just do key things. It's a square. Whatever. Um, I align, support, share, understanding. You have a Christian podcast, is that correct? Okay, so I'm gonna guess that you kind of stay within a certain parameter of— yeah, right? So you might not all of a sudden— I don't know, what would be— what would be opposite of, uh, something that you would Plan Parenthood, right? Possibly. Okay, so maybe you switch your stance on something where you're always one way. All right, so that is kind of a misstep for your listeners, right? So when you talk about your values— again, I really wish I remembered what that square was for for. Um, is it like what we talk about with keeping everything within? Maybe, maybe the boundaries, your boundaries of what you are talking about so people don't get confused. Um, there was a question, do you do it under the same name or do you do it under a new thing and have several different— you have several different, uh, you have your work ones and you have your other ones, but I feel like your other ones are like a little bit tangentially touching on one another, so it makes sense, right? Okay, all right, so I am not gonna all of a sudden start talking about tea— I don't know, coffee. I'm only gonna talk about tea. But Isabella here made me go to a coffee shop, and I said, you better go online and make sure they have tea because I'm not going to go in there if they don't, because my brand is the tea. And how— what, what do you mean, Gloria, and you're at a coffee shop? So how long has everybody been— I, I think you are the longest of, uh, podcasting. Is that true? Is anybody in this longer than 12 years? 11 or 12?

How many?

18.

How many? Close to 20.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, OG right there.

Oh, this man founded podcasting, actually. No, I didn't. That's fantastic. Okay, so here we are again. We are connecting through a timeline that I started my podcast on a whim, and I was like, oh, I wanted to talk about things that— I wanted to talk about issues that women have misconstrued because of information they were given. Okay, so that is a little play on misinformed. Have you been misinformed? Are you now a Miss That Is Informed? So anyway, that was my thing. 20 years. 20 years, is that what you said? Almost. Almost 20 years. Yeah, that's wild. That's wild. Um, does anybody share their personal story?

Oh, okay. Especially to make a point. Yeah, not just like, hey, wait till you hear what Mr. Whiskers did today. He mentioned Robin Williams. When Robin Williams died, it hit me in the gut, and I wanted to talk about Robin Williams, but my audience wants to learn about podcasting. So it's like, here are 7 things you can learn about podcasting from Robin Williams, completely unique, blah blah blah. So, and, and I did the same thing when Muhammad Ali died, and I had people email me that like he was my I'm a MyChamp too.

Great, now I've got a conversation going with my audience. Exactly, exactly, very good. And they're going to come back even though you put a personal spin on this because it was important to you, but you still kept it within the container of what they want to hear. That square you were talking about. Yes, the square, hallelujah. Okay, good, we did that. Um, so I'm going to share my personal story, and I've never shared before because I didn't think I had a personal story, but I have a card 12 that does not have my personal story on it, so we're going to hold on that. So I'm up here.

Go ahead.

That's called a tease, right?

Yeah, you got me on the edge of my seat now, right?

She's working the room. Oh my gosh. Okay, so you guys are gonna hear my personal story for the first time. Like I said, I did not think I had a personal story because so many of the personal stories that I hear of the big speakers they have, you know, and it's not to take away from them, it's really to show that I felt like I did not have that huge, you know, phoenix rising from the ashes moment in my life. I didn't have, um, you know, okay, so I'm gonna share, I'm gonna share. I was in a coaching container where One of the other women was homeless with her daughter and she lived in her car. Heart, connection, empathy, human, multidimensional, right? She moved from her car got into a women's shelter with her child. And while she was there, she started a hair care line in which she now, and even when she started, gives a percentage of the proceeds back to the women's shelter that housed her her and protected her and her child. So when I hear that story, I'm like, oh, I don't have anything like that. I live in upstate New York, you know, just outside of Albany. I mean, do you people even know where that is? When I say New York, they're like, oh, I'm from New York City. No, I'm not from New York City. I'm a nice person. Um, Again, connection. And I do have a couple of nice New York City people, not a lot, but, but a handful. Um, so I have decided that my personal story starts kind of before I even remember, and It's a subconscious thing that has come up for me. I have an overwhelming need to make sure no one is left behind, and I never really understood that, but I was always, you know, the person that was corralling the, the last child at school. I was always the the one that was helping where I could so somebody just was not left behind. And it took me a really long time to realize that it's because of where I was born. I was born in an orphanage in the Philippines. I was taken care of by nuns., and, um, my bonds were with the other babies and toddlers that were in the orphanage with me. And I don't remember it consciously, but it's the story that I've been told by my adoptive parents. So one day I had to leave Oh my gosh, I had to leave these other children and these nuns that took care of me because I was adopted by an American family. Um, my parents are white. I am half Black and half Filipino. I had to leave left my friend behind, and it's always weighed on me. And I believe that's why I am always saying, let's— I'm gonna walk beside you. I'm gonna walk beside you so that you don't fall behind. I'm not gonna lead you. I'm not gonna push you. I'm gonna walk beside you. So When I share that story, maybe you're thinking, oh, well, maybe that is a bit of a, you know, Phoenix rising. But I never felt that way because I didn't really have a true understanding of the why in that. And I carried these really strange emotions about leaving people people behind, then I could not do it. Doesn't, doesn't even matter. Like, I will be the last person at a soccer game. I will be the last person at wherever. I cannot leave you behind. Um, which is why I am this kind of a mindset person for entrepreneurs that our balance, mind, body, and soul. Because when you're in balance, you can step forward on your path with purpose, and you will not be left behind. But if you are out of balance, we are going to walk together. Now, I touched on every single one of those points, those tips that I gave you earlier, and If we were in alignment, I bet you I would have all of your listeners on the edge of their seats wondering, huh, that, that is an interesting story. She's multiracial, multiracial. An immigrant raised by white people. Oh, I forgot to say I have brothers too. Um, I didn't have a terrible life. I had a fantastic life growing up. I basically— every, every one of my needs was met and then some. But that's my story, and everybody sat and listened listened, thank you very much, quietly, tell me how you feel.

Go ahead.

Connected. I feel connection with you as a speaker now. Mm-hmm. Go ahead. Lucky.

Because I was here the first time you shared that. Yes, yes, yes. This is the first time that I have shared this. How does that feel? Well, when I was going— when I was practicing my speech, and obviously this part is not on notes because this is my life, I don't need notes to know about my life. When I went over the first time, I got really nervous and I got a little teary and I felt vulnerable. So this is the multidimensional being that is me. Yeah, share that. Share that in your story.

Stunned?

Yeah, well, I know you, and that even made me feel— I don't know, you don't— you gotta feel like you don't talk like that a lot. Like, I see you as like Whatever this woman wants just happens. She thinks it, she puts it out there, it happens. She opens a tea studio, not even supposed to be a tea studio, just supposed to be manufacturing tea. I knock on her door, I'm like, we have to work together. Now she's opening another location because she's doing so well. And it's like, for just because it just happens when you work your ass off, but also like you're just, you know, right? You have a lot of luck in other ways. I have a lot of luck. I have a lot of luck. I do a lot of work. I'm gonna have to work a little bit harder to reboot my podcast.

Thanks a lot.

But you make your luck is what you do. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, you guys.

Yes, for telling your story the first time. Yes, you had the key ingredient, which is, well, what happens next? So I'm in the Philippines, got a bunch of nuns, great theater of the mind. So I got this, I got this white little thing and you're in the middle, a bunch of nuns around it, and I'm like, okay, what happens next?

And then so that was a great story. You want to hear a really cool story? I'm going to add to this, and I— this is adding— I actually met one of the nuns that took care of me um, and she met my children. She was in Boston.

My mom—

I don't know how my mother was connected and found her, I don't know, but we drove out to Boston, my mom, myself, my two kids when they were little, and I met her, and I was able to give her a sizable donation because I did not want to leave anybody behind, and she was still doing that fantastic work.

Yes, it feels like an intrusive question, but I really want to know, did you ever try and search for any of the other children or ask about them?

No, no, I did not, because, um, the orphanage is closed in the Philippines and they're back then. But I— do we have time? I don't know. Are you guys hungry?

I, I mean, we were definitely over time.

Okay, I didn't want to stop you. We could talk at lunch. Yeah. Okay. All right, do you guys want to grab lunch and I'll just tell you a story of my sisters, my biological sisters? It's good, you'll want to hear it. Yeah. All right, so let's, let's pray for lunch and I'll just chit chat as we eat. So, oh yeah, I'm Lorianne Jones. If you need any help with, uh, sharing your story, or, um, you don't want to have me on my podcast, I'd like to talk about tea, not coffee. We can talk about lots of things. Um, and if you want to be a guest on Misinformed, if you have something that is bothering you about the way women have been misinformed or treated and you want to make Space for a new paradigm. Let me know. And, uh, yeah, the business cards that I have for my key cards.

Thank you so much. All right, so lunch is in the back. Uh, we have sandwiches, cookies, we have a birthday cake because because it's, uh, our photographer's birthday.

And it's also my birthday in like 6, so, you know, that doesn't count for anything.

Next Friday?

Yes, Friday.

9/11. Yeah. Uh, anyway, thank you everybody. Uh, I guess we'll just form a lineup in the back, and, uh, there's, like I said, sandwiches, uh, potato salad, a dancing kid, uh, pasta salad, and other stuff. Happy birthday. Yeah, it's Saratoga. Yeah, but you've also had birthdays.

Yeah, I just missed that.

Which is not— uh, it's not his Pretty early to be doing it, but do it the day before.