LivePodcast Summit with Rob Greenlee - Oct 24th, 2023

Hi everyone, my name is Todd Cockburn. I'm the founder of Blueberry Podcasting, and we are proud to be a sponsor of the Live Podcast Insider and Sonya's work. But more importantly, if you're considering to become a podcaster, we want you to come over to blueberry.com. I'm going to give you a 3-month free trial for doing so, for trying our podcast services out. All you have to use is the promo code founder on checkout, F-O-U-N-D-E-R, and you'll get 3 months free with this. And I tell you, I hope you enjoy the event. Again, we're a proud sponsor of this. Again, my name is Todd Cochran from Blueberry Podcasting. It's blueberry.com, blueberry without the E's. Have a great conference. Hello, everyone. My name is Todd Cochran. I'm celebrating my 19th year in podcasting. I'm also the founder of Blueberry Podcasting. Blueberry was built by a team of content creators. We know podcasting. We use our tools every day, and we want to invite you to come over and become a podcaster. Get a free trial of our service and get in there and test and play around. Build your brand. Don't build some other third-party host brand where you have to build on their website. We give you a free WordPress site with every account. Come on over and try out Blueberry Podcasting and our hosting services. I know that you're going to enjoy it. We've got a top-notch support team that'll take care of you if you run into trouble. The only team that you can actually call and have a friend answer questions for you. blueberry.com. B-L-U-B-R-R-Y dot com.

Hi, hi, hi, good morning from Bali, Indonesia. So today you see me more fresh even though without sleep at all, all night. And then even at 3 AM I'm contacting the StreamYard team, uh, for the technical issues that I still cannot, uh, connect to Facebook group. So maybe I'm going to share from my personal profile or the page to our Facebook group. But again, welcome to Live Podcast Summit this month, and yesterday we had our distinguished guest and expert speaker, of course, Todd Greenlee, and he is the CEO of, uh, Blueberry and also Raw Voice, right? And yeah, I'm blessed with his support and also Blueberry support, uh, to make this event happen. And then, um, yeah, there was a bit technical difficulty yesterday and we are using StreamYard right now, but Today we have another distinguished guest speaker, and you know him already, and he was the first cover boy, the— how do you call it— the initial, uh, for Live Podcast Insider, of course. And I'm very honored to have him here again today to share with us about media diversification strategies for success because there are so many challenges today. Then I feel that we need to keep up and then also to update our information about social media and, uh, the strategies that we can apply. Of course, uh, we are going to invite Rob Greenlee on the screen. Hi Rob, how are you?

Oh, it's great to be here, Sonia.

Yeah, thank you so much. It's an honor to have you here again. Always thank you for your support. And now you are a columnist on Live Podcast Insider. Oh my God, thank you so much for the support. That is really, really great. And I cannot wait to see you on the magazine this week, right? And yeah, I got another article, 10 pages already, exclusive sharing from you about social media, about podcast, about live podcast, and, uh, the journey how to be successful in live streaming and Casting. So how are you today? And thank you so much for catching the time after being in New York. I don't know if there is for business or for honeymoon.

No, it was definitely for, for business, being, being down in New York. Actually, it was the National Association of Broadcasters conference that started today at the Javits Center, which is a big, big, uh, conference facility on the the Hudson River, um, in Manhattan. So it was— there's a lot of stuff going on and had some meetings down there. So it's— I, I rushed home. It takes a couple of hours to get, get back from New York. So thank you. So I just swooped in.

I'm very happy. Yeah, made it online like this. And I hope that you don't mind that you have late dinner, just like, uh, thought yesterday.

I'm, I'm very flexible and I'm used to working in all sorts of different time zones, um, all around the world. So it's, it's really normal for me to do things at odd hours. I've, I've done shows kind of like what you do to some degree at like 2 or 3 in the morning or something like that that are in a different time zone.

So let's leave this 2 days crazy because there are so many things to get done also for the magazine and also for our next projects with the book, with the— not only the book, the— what is it— the, the awards, like podcast awards. I'm very excited, but you know me. Yeah, and when my brain is active at 1 AM, then I cannot, uh, go to sleep. So no sleep at all still. Uh, would you like to share a little bit, uh, what you had to do on the conference? So maybe if you don't mind sharing it. Just a little bit.

Yeah, it was really just a couple of, uh, right, yeah, it was just a meeting, really, um, one main meeting with a, a new technology company that's building, um, some technology for audio, kind of advanced audio recording capability. It's, it's called an— it's called InSounds. It's out of, uh, the Middle East. Is where they're based, but they're trying— they built a very compelling kind of audio recording and audio processing platform that's, which is a little bit really in line with where I've kind of taken my career, is really working towards trying to support and promote kind of the leading edge or the cutting edge of the, of the audio or video recording platforms. Right, to, to get on that side of the business. I spent 10 years working in the hosting and distribution side. Yes, but it's also, you know, it's, it's fun to play on the content side too, which is what I, I really have a passion for. That's how I got involved in, in podcasting and whatever was doing my own nationally syndicated radio show I did for 7 years. So really, that's That's really my foundation.

Look at, um, is it almost the same year with Todd, uh, for 19 years?

Yeah, I started actually about, or more, or even more. Yeah, I started about 2 weeks before Todd did, so, so it was very close. So I started in December, right, right. So I started in mid- in mid-September, and he started in the kind of early part of October. So, right. So, but, and then, uh, yeah, across that timeline, it really doesn't matter, 2 weeks, we both about started same time.

Yes. So it's like a twin. But then, uh, Rob, what has been changing from the era into today's era? And then You know, when I see your debate with, uh, Todd about YouTube, blah blah blah. So I think it has been changed a lot, even though, uh, Todd said the content or the formula is actually the same, right? The marketing formula also, how we distribute our podcast, how, you know, to create the content, uh, are almost the same in my opinion. But what has been been changed since?

Yeah, I think the big thing for me as I think about it is just all of the tools that are available for content creators now to use to help them create content that are lower cost and more powerful at the same time. I mean, I mean, in the early days when I started, I had to use kind of music equipment in order to do podcasts, you know, software that was designed for a music creator and microphones that were designed for singers, right? Because they didn't really have a focus on podcasting back then at the scale that podcasting has. So I think, and that's what really gravitated me towards the more the creation side of this, is just the advancements of the tools like this. You know, I use a RODECaster Pro, the original version, but this thing is so powerful. I mean, if I had this back in 2004 or 2005,, it would've been so much easier for me to do the show that I did. So I say that's the big thing is that content creators now have very powerful tools. And especially now when you start adding in AI technology to this, it's adding a whole nother layer that we have to kind of sift through and understand and really try and, you know, visualize how this can help us and not cause more work. And I think that's the struggle in the AI stuff right now when it comes to being a content creator is that a lot of creators play around with these different tools that are available and some work good, some don't work so good. We're still not 100% clear on where the benefit is of these things and where it brings enough value to either invest our money in them or to invest our time in them. And that's, that's the other thing that I've been playing around with a lot and trying to learn as well as we move into this next phase of content creation, which is the AI revolution. And it's going to change a lot of stuff, but we're still kind of— I mean, Todd says this a little bit too, we're still a little bit in the early stages of this because we still don't really know where the value is.

Yeah.

Right. And it looks like, you know, the fungi, the mushroom on the rainy season. So there are so many new software, so many new apps, and how do you keep up with it? I asked the same question yesterday to Todd because I know that it's a very, very busy CEO, but also very punctual in his schedule. And then, uh, still he has to update all of the information with all of the technology. I know that he is not like you, he is a genius, but then How do you manage your energy and time for it? Even for me, I'm not that famous like you, but I already cannot sleep at night like this.

So yeah, you just have to pace yourself. It's like, you know, it's a— it's really, really a marathon run. Um, even from the role that I have in the medium today, it's, it's really got to pace yourself. You have to be as focused as you can. On narrowing down things that you spend time with and trying to sift through them based on what other people say and what other people recommend. And that's really how I do it. And I just trust my instincts too. Like when I see something new that intrigues me and I can kind of connect the dots on this. And I think that's the other piece of this is, Is it what, you know, like a couple of the technology platforms that I'm working with right now, um, you know, help solve a problem that content creators have? And, and I understand that because I am one and I have been one for a long time, and I've worked with thousands of content creators, podcasters, and I understand their pain. I understand their struggle. And a little bit, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing today, is that I want to throw myself into that and feel that pain myself. The, the, the work that it takes to be able to do a video show as well as an audio podcast and to make both of them work. I'm a, I'm a test case for that. I don't think that there's a huge amount of examples of people successfully doing this, though I think that there's some out there, right? There's some out there that are doing this convergence strategy, which is what I'm working with StreamYard on is helping them strategize about how they can be more useful and more appealing to audio and video podcasters. And then adding this layer on, like what you're doing here, is live, which is a whole nother dimension. And a lot of people are scared of doing live because it is more complicated. It is— there's a little more pressure there. You have to really be spontaneous and you have to—

just like what I had yesterday when the camera didn't work, you know, like—

and right, yeah, yeah. So you're trying to walk a fine line of trying to balance the technology with the content, and that takes multitasking, you know. And I learned a lot from doing, uh, radio, um, to multitask because I, I had to run the board at the radio station and I had to you know, take the calls and stuff because it was kind of a call-in talk show. So it was the same kind of skills, right? So I had a little bit of an advantage coming into this, but I've always loved live, you know. And this is the show that Todd and I do every week, is we've been doing for like 10 or 12 years. And it's like, you know, Todd loves live, I love doing things live. It's just more authentic, it's more real, and there's more opportunity to connect with other people and audiences. But like Rick says, live is complicated. It is complicated. I 100% agree, and not everybody's up for the challenge of it.

But, but it makes us happy, Rick, no matter what the challenges we have. Uh, yeah, uh, if I can tell you, the first time I did the live streaming with Ross Brandt at that time— oh, okay, by the way, uh, congratulations on your new role as like of evangelist for StreamYard. And then also you have, uh, you listen to me to have Ross Brand on the beginning on your, uh, premiere show, and it was really fun. And yeah, it is more complicated. What I mean is like to not be afraid with the technology. Everyone is learning by doing, I guess, even though no matter how perfect your equipment is, like what you have, like God has. And still, sometimes there is a mistake that we make, right? And sometimes we have technical issues that we cannot avoid. And but that's life, they said. That is the, the excuses to make it right. Like, that's life. But yeah, I'm happy with live streaming, even though it was very scary for me the first time. You know that I've been, uh, afraid of the camera since I was a child. And then The first time I, uh, interviewed Ross, the camera fell. So after that, people didn't know. I cried after that, but I'll say it is okay, people didn't notice. But I— it was really, really an embarrassing moment for me, you know, interviewing Ross at that time.

So yeah, well, and like, I, I did my first episode of the Podcast Tips with Rob Greenlee show for StreamYard, uh, last Thursday, and I learned something from that because I tried something new. I, I was playing like a, a background music with the, the show, and I've, I've been wrestling with that.

No, I know.

Yeah, that's why— I mean, that's why I want to raise it here is because it's an interesting example of trying new things, and if people don't like it, uh, people will let you know. Hopefully they'll, they'll let you know and not just stop listening. So I had a few people make a comment that, you know, that the background music was distracting. Okay. I, I take that. I tried something different. I was trying to make the show, you know, a little bit more like a, like a video game experience, right? Just, just from the standpoint of trying to, you know, appeal to maybe Mario Brothers games or something like that.

It is fun actually, but maybe it was too loud only. And then my Nightmare of Boston—

It just needed to be faded down.

Right, yeah, yeah. About the, uh, sound on the live streaming like this, there are so many, uh, professional content creators and freelancers who have nice music, but when I use it, I was flagged for the, you know, copyright, even though it was originally from StreamYard. And Wave, as, uh, Wave at that time was the sponsor, so I— now I'm scared to use the music, maybe a little bit trauma about it because I I couldn't change it. You know, when we have, uh, the flag on the Facebook, then we cannot change it, right? Just delete it or edit it. We cannot edit it like that because we don't know who, uh, who is the person on— the person who claim it. It's just like this, but we don't know how to contact them. Even though we tag them, it didn't work. So because of it also, Rob, that I don't want to use the music. And then maybe this is more peaceful because, you know, I'm an introvert, so Well, there's—

I, I agree with you, there's two ways of looking at this. And this is, this is something that I've wrestled with for many years in the medium, is how much music to use. I, you know, I had a radio show that had a lot of music in it because, you know, back in those days, back in those days, I could play, uh, I could play commercial music on my radio show. And so some of that back in the early days kind of did leak out into my, my podcast. So, you know, back in the early days of this, uh, most most of my listeners were on the radio side or they were streaming, right? And, and it wasn't, uh, as a podcast. That was back in the time that maybe, maybe 10% of my audience was downloading the, the episode via, via the MP3 file. So it was a very small part of my distribution. And then over, over a period of time, you know, that obviously grew. But, but now we've kind of moved into an era now where you You do have to be concerned about the music that you play in your show because you're correct, YouTube will put a copyright block on it or they'll say it's okay if you have it in your show, but the content creator is gonna be able to monetize it, but you can't, right? So those are the two things that can happen to you. It can either be a takedown notice or a fine, but more than likely, it's just gonna be monetized by the copyright holder. So you're going to be able to keep it up there. It's just that you're not going to be able to make any money on it. So if you're—

but I agree with you about the music and sound on the radio. It was more fun even when I was as a guest speaker on the radio. It was fun. I, I—

oh yeah, I had fun.

But I have like, you know, my own nationality song. I mean, my motivational song that has to be turned, uh, when I'm when I become a guest speaker on the radio. And radio made me more secure, you know, because I don't need to be in front of the camera. It's only the sound, so I can tease people, I can tease the host, I can make— you know, it's easier for me as an introvert also. And then, Rob, uh, what do you feel now because you don't work with the corporate as the, the official? I mean, like You know, I feel that you are more free in criticizing or give the feedback or your own opinion, and then you have the content creators or the influencers more freely than before because you brought the name of the brands before, right? Of course you are in StreamYard now, you bring the StreamYard brand, but then it seems that I see that you are, yeah, more free in, uh, giving your opinion about any, media or any software. And also, I don't know, what do you feel about it? That's, that's probably a person. That is my feeling now.

So, right, I mean, it's, it's definitely a perception. I was, I would say that it may not be as, as real as you might think. I mean, I'm, I have always really voiced my, my opinions, um, publicly. The thing that I have, to be quite transparent here is, is that there are things that I couldn't disclose because I was working for a company that had proprietary information, or I had to sign an NDA with, with like a Google or somebody, or an Apple, and I couldn't talk about stuff that I maybe I was working with them on. So a lot of those things were just restrictions on what I could talk about because of the business relationships that I had. Um, but you're right. I mean, I think, you know, not being, you know, a corporate officer, like a vice president or, or a leader at one of these companies, um, does put me in a situation where I can give, give a little bit more kind of opinion on things that— right— that can't be construed as disclosure of, um proprietary information, right? So, so, so if I do hear things now, I'm a little bit like a journalist now to some degree, because if I hear things about— but they aren't through like secure channels or whatever, or I haven't signed an NDA, I'm, I'm free to, to talk about things. But I still have to talk about things in a respectful way that doesn't cause people to feel like I'm maybe I'm slandering them or I'm trying to undermine their business or I'm trying to— and this is kind of a line that Todd and I have had to walk on the New Media Show for many years is how bad do we beat up, you know, a particular company for a bad decision like, like a Spotify or a YouTube or a Google or those kind of folks because we, we have been tough on companies in the past. And, and I think that, you know, depending on the attitudes of the company, that can either be taken respectfully or, and, you know, where they take it and improve, or they can take it as an offense and somehow retaliate against us because we had a differing opinion to what they were doing. So, you know, those are, those are the choices that we have to make and we gamble by taking a position. And I think increasingly these days as content creators, We're seeing more and more people take, you know, divisive positions on things, and they're being judged for it.

So, right. And then, uh, about the money— the money— which one is bigger? Which one is bigger, being an independent creator like this, or join with the big brand like before?

Well, my my perfect model really is to be a content creator that has some relationships with some brands that, um, offer like a, like a consulting agreement or, or, or a relationship that has some monetary connections to it but doesn't bind me down in the things that I can talk about. But it also creates this other relationship with those brands that I'm working with, um, probably don't tell me as much either.

So, so if that's the trade-off, give your own proposal, or the other brands, right? Totally different when you are the leader of the company, right?

So they're not going to tell me their really top secret stuff because they, they might think that there's a risk that I'll say something about it, and I guess, you know, if I'm not signed to a binding NDA contract, that it could happen. But I also am very respectful of companies' business interests, and I always have been. You know, I used to work at, at a big company called Microsoft, and I was there for 7 years. And if there ever was a company that was concerned about secrets, it was a company like Microsoft. So I'm very much accustomed to that culture of being cautious of what you share. And I've done other consulting agreements too where I have to sign things that say I won't talk about, um, you know, proprietary business information from other companies. Yeah, right, right. So it's, it's, it's a little bit of an ethics thing to some degree, is what I— I, I grew up in an era where ethics actually meant something. I'm not sure it does too much anymore.

And then, and yesterday, uh, you support us, uh, when, uh, Todd was here also about sponsorship, right? And then, uh, this time, uh, I didn't get another sponsorship, uh, but Blueberry as our ultimate sponsor, and I'm very grateful for it also because what you said that we really have to, uh, what is it, uh, to choose our sponsors also, even though there are some offers. And then I asked some people and they cannot make it, but then the other one they can make it, but I don't feel comfortable, you know, with the personal business or something like that, or their brand's quality that, yeah, it can, uh, I can't say danger my image as a woman also, not as a content creator, because they want the sexy thing, blah blah blah. There are some kind of people, uh, who put in into the wrong, I don't know, image or perspective when you support an influencer or someone, right? So yeah, I agree with your opinion yesterday. Only the thing is, uh, the risk is like what I have today. Only Blueberry, uh, will sponsor me this time, but then I'm— I feel really— because I don't need to accept the persona sponsorship that bring me the best image, and also the, the brands that are not, in my opinion, not reliable enough. What do you think about it, Rob?

Yeah, I think, um, you know, I do think that having Blueberry sponsor what you're doing is a terrific thing. I mean, you have to start somewhere, you have to build on that, and Blueberry is really great. And also Blueberry is a lot like you, right? You know, Todd and, and Blueberry is a terrific platform, and they've got a very valid product that's been proven in the market for many, many years. And I'm a big fan of Blueberry myself. You know, I've worked with a bunch of his competitors, which he, he is a little bit, uh, stung about over the years, quite honestly. So yeah, so I've been, I've been doing this, uh, show with him for like 12 years, but I've also been through like Spreaker, Lipson, Podbean, and those are all his primary competitors. So it's been a little bit of a, of a bumpy ride over the years with Todd, but, but that's, that's just because he's a competitor and I'm a competitor too. So I, I played— I don't know if you knew this about me, but I played competitive, uh, basketball for 13 years. So I played in college and, and some semi-pro, so I am a competitor at heart, but I also am a competitor that has ethics too and cares about one's opponent. And that's a thing that is sometimes a little lacking in the business world these days, where you can respect your competitor and you can you know, not trash them, right? You can treat them with respect and, and, and not have to give, give them a hard time. And that's, that's the line that I try and walk in, in all my business relationships. Because what it does is it maintains— it's, it's like this concept of not burning bridges, right? I don't want to burn any bridges in any relationship with anybody in the industry, whether it be the podcasting content.

Different with me. When someone is annoying, just I block it. Where if you are a troublemaker, why should I deal with you? Something like that.

You're talking— but it's walking that line. It's, it's really walking that line because you still want to be known as somebody that has an opinion about things, and you want to know people to know that you have thoughts about this and that you're thinking about things and that you're trying to help by sharing your thoughts. Now granted, not all that stuff is going to align with what other people think, but If you treat people with respect and you treat people kindly, that will come back to you in the long term. And I've always tried to support other people that are creating content or building platforms in the best way that I can at every opportunity without causing a conflict with the existing kind of business relationships or business relationship that I have or my job or those kind of things. So I have to walk those lines.

Right, yeah, agree. As long as they respect us. If, uh, they, uh, we lose respect to them, then it doesn't work anymore. But then I— yeah, talking about the basketball, I saw your picture at that time you showed me, right? You were very handsome as a basketball player on your outfit. But how— what changed your mind to be like a public figure like this? You know what I mean? Why didn't you become a basketball coach or basketball promoter or something like that.

How could you? That wasn't a different— today, yeah, that was a long time ago, and, and I think I learned a lot from it, um, but it wasn't something that I wanted to continue, uh, with my professional career. So it was just one of those things that, you know, it, it taught me how to, how to work with a team and become successful. And which in sports means that you're winning games, right? So that is a little bit different than winning in business. Yeah, you have to kill on the spot. Right, right. It's, you know, it's this win-lose relationship that happens in sports that isn't entirely compatible with with, with business, but it can have an element to it, right? Um, because usually even in business, somebody wins and somebody doesn't, right? So it's— there is some color, color area there. Oh, I see Tim is asking what, what kind of lights do I use?

Yeah, yesterday was purple, so not only LED light, so must be special, right?

Yes, I have a— I have 3 little lights that I, uh, panel lights that I got from Amazon, and they're basically— I think they're about like 5 inches by 8 inches panels, right? So I can position them on the front, right, on your table, uh, near your table. Yeah, so I have a tree profile. Oh yeah, yeah. So I have a, like, a pole that's behind my, my desk that actually holds 3 monitors and a teleprompter. Plus on top of this tree that has arms on it that hold my monitors at 2 levels, they're attached to the very top and they're pointed down at me at different, and at different directions. So I have one light that's pointed at the wall behind me, and then I have a another one that's pointed at me, like shining down at me, like right here. And then, then I have one in the middle that kind of shines a little bit down but also shines against the wall. So I, I'm trying to create this kind of shadow effect but not too bright. But it's like this color.

Yeah, cannot be seen on your Facebook banner, only your desk. So you cannot see the light there.

Yeah, yeah. So you can see I've published some pictures of my setup here, but these panel lights didn't cost that much. I think, I think I paid like $40 or $50 for them or something like that. But I can adjust the, the color frequency of the lights. Yeah, so I can adjust them to be kind of like—

right now, please change it into right now.

Yeah, I can adjust them to be like an amber color, you know, like a— it's got a, it's got a little bit of a reddish tone to it. But then there's also other lights that are like more bright white, um, so I can adjust that temperature of the, of the light to be more favorable to my complexion. So it brings out the more handsome, the natural skin tone. Um, that I have. I mean, a lot of lights, if you don't, um, adjust them properly or you don't even have the ability to adjust their temperature, which is their colors, um, it can make you a little bit washed out. So I think that that's a big—

yeah, thank you, Tim, for the question.

I don't believe in heavy lighting. Yeah, even though if you talk to Todd, he's got big panel lights in his studio.

I know a lot of mini on his table also, a lot of, you know, toys on on his table also. And yeah, it is fun actually. You have this—

yeah, it's fun to actually talk about these topics because it's, it's kind of fun. You know, I went through this process myself of watching a lot of YouTube videos and getting recommendations from others, um, about, you know, what is an inexpensive but effective setup. And there's all sorts of different perspectives on this. I mean, there's those that will tell you to get a big, like a round kind of umbrella light or something like that and put it off to one side of you and create this shadow effect from one side of your face.

Yeah, like the studio photo. Yes.

Right.

But it looks like more like on the TV setting that I have been, you know, when I was on TV because the light should be very, very bright. It is very, very hot on TV always. Is it the same with the home studio, uh, lightning?

Yeah, like, yeah, so some people will have, let's say, a light that shines, uh, from below up at them, right? And what that'll do is that'll light the, the kind of underside so you don't have this shadow that comes down from your nose or your, or your eyebrows. Down. So that, that's why occasionally I need to look up, because my lights are up like this height shining down on me, which can create shadows. So some will have lights that are underneath, and it also can be pretty annoying too, I have to say, being under, under lights like this.

Not hot like on TV.

Oh no, I always be sweating on the TV interview, you know, like Yeah, but I've done a lot of stage presentations where I have to get up on stage and those big spotlights are hitting you in the face and, and you can't see the audience that you're, you're presenting to or something like that. I mean, that's, that's the kind of thing it can be a little bit like. Um, there's some eye blindness there that can happen. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it even happens in my studio here if I have the lights turned up too, too bright.

And about media diversification strategies, uh, what kind of strategy do you have, uh, that you can share with us, especially for the people who is the startup? And then I mentioned on my, uh, Facebook today about that I'm still a baby, that I'm going to launch my podcast through Blueberry, of course. So, uh, but I also have some worries because you mentioned, uh, we thought on New Media Show that, uh, being too niche, uh, some podcasters are gone because of it because they don't have enough, uh, what is it, content or material to share after quite some time, right? But then, uh, Todd yesterday gave us the tips that of course you should talk about your passion that is way, but do you have any other tips for that?

Yeah, I think there's really two media, right? I think there's really kind of two big buckets of things that you, you should really think about on this. And these are things that I wrestle with too, and I'm certainly not perfect at any of these things myself because it's, it's all so, I guess, unique to each one of us about what our passions are and what kind of content that we feel compelled to contribute. Right, so that there's kind of two big buckets. There's ones, uh, that would be, um, more conversational shows, kind of like what we're doing here. And then there's, there's content that is very popular on platforms like YouTube that is very topic-focused, right? And, and, and you put that in your cover art or in your thumbnail saying, you know, this is the the topic, right? Kind of like, or, or it's, you know, what's happening on YouTube with the video side is that it's becoming more kind of driven by people's fears or emotions, right? Um, and those teases that are happening in those thumbnails and stuff are, are not really sharing what's in the content, but it's sharing the emotions that are, that they think as a creator are, will be the result of you watching the content. So it's almost like they're talking to your fears or your passions or your concerns, right? And they're gonna create content that addresses those issues. And I think it's a little bit of a different model with podcasting. Podcasting tends to be a little more structured, but yet it can also be very conversational too. Like this particular podcast is completely unstructured. And there's no outline that we created for this. This is, this is actually the kind of content that I love to do is ones that are just stream of consciousness, right? But some people will criticize this kind of content and say, well, it's not structured enough or it doesn't have, you know, key takeaways, right? Like, like you're supposed to give people like, what are the top 10 takeaways that they can go off and do tomorrow? Right? So that's a different kind of content. And, and I, I kind of oscillate between those two formats, right? I mean, there's more formats than that. But I would say those are the two bucket ones that people have to figure out. Do they want to be like how to make how-to videos?

Or do they want to do that too? So I haven't decided whether I have the guest speaker or not for the podcast, right?

Right. And should your speaker, like, like me being on, should I be putting up a presentation or something like that that has, you know, bullet points? What are the, the, the diversification strategies for success? You know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, right? And, and we talk about each one of those particular strategies or tactics versus what we are kind of doing with this show is really talking about kind of more conceptual ideas on how to get to those strategies, right? And, and, but maybe kind of straying into areas that maybe are different than your objective of this session with me too. So the, the listener has to be willing to go on a serendipitous journey with us of, of discovery of sorts, and some people just don't have time for that. So that's the, that's the juggle. Some people want to come in and get the facts, Jack, and then others want to come in and experience something, right?

I agree. And then, uh, with the diversification in media, you know, there are so many platforms that we can be on it. And then, uh, in your opinion, should we be on all of the social media platforms even though we have our own website, or we choose the ones that we feel comfortable with? Which one is the best strategy for our business? This is for the business, not only for the exposure or performance.

Yeah, this is also a very hard question too, because it's— it really, at the end of the day, I don't know that I can say, you know, one platform is the best one to go to, or, or if you should even use any of them. I— there's some people out there that just hate social media.

Yeah, just like LinkedIn. People are very successful LinkedIn, but people also hate it. Like, right, you know, like the Vegemite and Marmite. I hate it, but the people love it.

Yeah. So if you're doing a show, a topic that is really kind of business-oriented, I would say LinkedIn is probably your, your go-to property. Um, if you're doing something that's maybe has a slash personal slash professional, maybe Facebook is okay. And then Twitter is kind of like, you know, you know, open season. But it's, you know, podcasting tends to be a little bit more focused. It's, it's a little more genre-specific. Um, and so trying to— and this is what I'm trying to do with what I'm doing with StreamYard— is to create a model of sorts with my own show of a show that is straddling both the video world and the audio podcasting world. And there are very successful shows on YouTube that are doing that, though I would say that they're probably more successful on the, on the video side than they are on the audio side. But some are being able to do both, and that's what I would love to kind of be an advocate for, is working out that process, that workflow, the content ideas and coming at it from a digital-first approach and then coming up with an approach with your show that it will be successful in all your distribution mediums. Now, that may be too much to ask in hindsight, and that may be what I learned from going through this, is that you do need to be more specific to create content for individual platforms, and you can't really create one piece of content that's going to be ideal for all the platforms.

And then, uh, I got the, the email from Patreon. I would like to start the Patreon, and then now you can sell individual video or something like that. What do you think about it? Now it makes Patreon like a YouTube channel, right? Like, you know, that you can monetize, uh, your content. It's not only from donation or from your subscriber, but you can sell your products there also. So, uh, is there any other ways that we can monetize our contents, uh, besides like a new way like on Patreon right now or YouTube or the other platform?

Yeah, I, I tend to— I can only really speak for myself to some degree. I mean, there, there are so many different ways to do it now, um, that it really is really a matter of understanding the whole spectrum of what you can do, and then it's really up to you to decide what makes the most sense.

Because podcast is different, right?

It has advertisement too, and it's right, and it appeals to a market or a specific listener that maybe would be attracted to one form or another, you know, is kind of like what I'm doing with the content that I'm producing now. It's kind of really kind of a little bit branded podcasting is what it is. It's not so much advertising, it's not so much sponsorship, it's more podcasting built on partnerships. And partnerships tend to be shows that are more what I would call a kind of branded podcast, ones that are creating content in support of a brand. So I think that is a very valid approach too, but you do need to have a reputation in a particular genre or a particular market that has influence, right? That people trust what you say. And, and that's, that's where I get back to the show.

Yeah. Uh, to make, uh, what is it, the program, how the business, uh, professional, so content creators, uh, to to get the trust from the companies or the brands, and also, uh, the vice versa, right? And but you are also talking about the controversial thing now. What do you think about it? Oh, we—

Ross Brandt on his show, they— which, which, which of the controversies are you specifically referring to? Because there's multiple ones. You're talking about the controversy about the war, about everything, about—

oh, okay. Media, that one. Oh my God. So it's a bit deeper for me. Uh, what I mean is I, I will not take that risk, uh, on my puzzle of life, no matter how, you know, talking about politics, talking about such thing.

Yeah, it's very hard now to be a content creator and not get pulled into some level of political discussion. Um, like, I do a show every every Thursday at 1:30 with Ross Brand. It's called the Stream Leaders Report panel show, and it's basically a show that we talk about current affairs and current issues. And, and occasionally Todd and I will delve into some of that, but that's really the only other show that I actually do that. And then to some degree, Trust Factor has been in the middle of some, um, controversial topics. Like, I've, I've talked about aliens and stuff on the show before.

Yes, things like that. And back to StreamYard, what would you like to present after this, and what is the goal of the show on the StreamYard?

Yeah, it's to really build a program. I mean, I did for 4 years, I did a a live show on Spreaker, which is now owned by iHeartRadio. But I did a show called the Spreaker Live Show, and it was basically a, a show that was done with a co-host, and we, we talked about all the, the latest information about what's happening in the podcast medium and then talked about how, how the Spreaker tools work as well with the opportunities of Spreaker as well. So it was another branded show But to, to talk about all these issues, kind of like what we're doing here where we're talking about content creation issues that are maybe not as talked about, right? So those are the, the topics that I really, really like doing are the topics that a lot of people don't really talk about because they either don't have the depth of experience to be able to really dive into those topics, or they just don't feel comfortable talking about those topics for for, for whatever reason. Like, I've been spending a lot of time talking about trust in podcasting, and that's not a, a hot topic in podcasting to talk about how podcasters have a responsibility to build trust with their audience. It's not a, a common topic in the, in the podcast medium. So that's kind of what I try and gravitate towards, because so if I feel things happening in the world that, um will impact podcasters, I like to kind of get ahead of the curve on them and start talking about them before they're really kind of impactful, right? And kind of help people get, get a little bit of a lead-in to maybe thinking about things in a certain way that can help them be better.

Yeah. And Rob, but isn't it too risky to talk about such controversial topic because you are a public figure and we don't want, uh, you to have image like, oh, I am into this, uh, special political, uh, side or party, or you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I typically don't go too far down the rabbit hole. I kind of play around on the surface of these topics and talk about how we're being challenged in what we understand and what we can trust. And that's why I talk about trust, is because trust is a— is a— an element of this that everyone can associate with.

And I know, but that is a hard topic also for people today, right? Uh, to trust a brand or to trust an influencer if they really bring the good image for us, or You know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it, it's really core, I think, to, to all of us kind of being able to, to function and be human beings in our, our world today is trust is the number one thing that's under threat. Um, can we trust what we're being told in the news? Can we trust what we're being told by our doctor?

Can we trust what we're being told by You know, I agree, because every media has different, uh, view about something. Then yeah, on in here, of course, you know, uh, who we defend— I mean, the, the media will be, uh, different, will defend on one party, right? And on the other country, uh, it looks different. So you don't even know which one is the right one. I mean you know, who is the winner of the war, for example, or who is behind the war, for example. So, uh, how do you find, uh, the truth on the media that cover those kind of information? Because you deliver this information on your show.

Yeah, well, I think the big thing is, is trust your gut, trust your instincts, and do your own research. And Talk to other people, um, as, as much as you can. So sometimes it's not easy to, to do any of this stuff, and a lot of people don't have time to do a lot of deep research and to talk to other people that maybe have firsthand experience with things. Um, and all— but just be open in your mind to other ideas. And do those other ideas make sense to you? Do they, do they match up? Are you connecting the dots that can help you have a better clarity of understanding of what may be true and what maybe isn't true. And but be skeptical of everything that you read. Don't just take everything that you read as fact and truth just because maybe somebody said it. And I think that's where the trust comes in, right? Who do you trust that tells you things? Are they thinking about things? Are they applying critical thinking? And is there a motivation for them to deceive and to not tell the whole truth, uh, I think is the, is the ultimate, um, kind of measurement too, because everybody has an agenda, and that's, that's just a fact of life, and that's a fact of, of, um, having, uh, having an economy that's, that's really, um capitalism is that people have a vested interest in, in certain outcomes.

So it's difficult. And I would like to greet everyone, uh, thank you so much for the comments and questions. Maybe I cannot see them on the studio, but also like the love and the likes. Larry Boyer, Joe Pardo. And if you have any question or comment, please do while Rob is here, or if you uh, watch the replay later, you can do that also. But Rob, if you still have time, I know that, uh, you— it's been a long day for both of us, uh, about the social media in the future, right? Because there are so many changing with the AN and everything. Yesterday I asked about the authenticity, uh, because, you know, like Canva itself, you can, uh just create the content with, uh, ChatGPT and then just design it right away to Canva. Then the people wouldn't know if it is like, uh, it is from the ChatGPT or your own creation. Well, actually it is your own creation now because you create the design and you edit the words, right, based on your, uh, question and also comment on ChatGPT. What do you think about it? So what will change after this about the content creation?

Yeah, I think the integration of images has been a fun little development. I'm not sure that it really does any damage to anything, at least its ability to take a prompt and generate an image from it. I generally have felt, you know, very positive about that output that it gives because it, it adds another level of creativity that most of us just don't have the ability to create artwork like that. You know, I don't have like Photoshop skills that will allow me to create some of the stuff that these AI platforms can generate as far as visual images. So I think its ability to create art and to illustrate and to create kind of imaginary kind of visuals is really, I think, one of the most compelling things about that is maybe unless it's portraying something that we need to trust as being real, when it's just making things based on a concept that isn't representing something that is either controversial or something that can be deceptive, right? And that's the risk here, is that what is being created can create a deceptive experience. And that also applies to the textual content. And then increasingly what we're going to see is these AI platforms being able to generate videos that are not unlike what we see with the visual imaging that are coming out through the DALL-E um, was it 4.0 project or the 3.0? I think it's 3.0, but, but the next element is going to be doing the same thing with creating videos. And that— they're going to need to put some limitations on being able to represent, um, certain people or people in general. Maybe they're going to have to be just randomly generated people, not real people. Right. I think where the danger comes in is when this AI is used to replicate.

Right. Yeah. Now with the video also, it happens to the artist already, right? Or the other public figures. And it seems like it is like Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg will really speak on that. What is it? Video. But actually they are only AI. Unless if you see the lips movement, it is hard to differ actually, Rob. And that is the danger you mentioned, I think. But then, uh, we cannot stop it, right? And then, uh, you join it or you will, uh, what is it, you will not be able to actually fall behind social media. Yeah, not only for— yeah, fall behind, but also, uh, disappear from social media because of it if we are not careful to, uh, tell it for ourselves, right? And then, so will it change our personal branding, uh, strategies on social media with that kind of, uh, improvement or development on the technology?

Yeah, I think it can actually. Actually, if you should be able to use your own image or your own kind of media that you created with your real person, as long as you own it in the platform, right, you should be able to create new versions of things that maybe have different elements in it. So I think that there'll probably be the ability that some of these AIs will be personal AIs to us, and they will be able to generate things in support of each of us. And put them out there, but not allow other people to take our likeness and take our content and publish those as though it was ours. I think that's a dividing line that I think— and this is an issue for podcasters too. It would be great for me to be able to create a podcast episode and be able to import it into an AI tool that can generate versions of it in you know, 10 different languages.

Because I don't like my own voice, and then my— and also my English pronunciation, right? It might help, but then, yeah, it will hurt the work of our voice actors also. And yeah, right. I believe that, of course, there are so many, uh, works that will be, uh, replaced by AI, right? But then should we—

well, I want to be a voice actor. I want to be a voice actor. So I'm going to put my voice and speaking cadence into platforms and they can license me. Right, right. So they can license the use of my voice from me and then they can use it, right? But I think it has to be with approval of the real human because that AI voice could say things that I didn't say.

It needs to have like a— because we don't know, there are so many products out there that use our voice if you are famous, right? And then, but that is a good idea then, uh, for the voiceover. Then I need you to be my voiceover on my podcast so I will be more confident, uh, than my own listening to my own voice for the opening.

Yay, thank you! I would like it too because Yeah, I don't speak perfectly. I mean, it's, it's one of those things too. I make mistakes in my audio, and I know that there's others that are like perfect, you know. They, they're lucky they're able to speak without ums and ahs.

Yeah, I love Jodie Cranger for the commercials. She's an angel, and she can hypnotize people. She can hypnotize people to buy your products or or, uh, to join your program. I love her so much.

Yep. Yeah, she's awesome.

I agree with you. Yeah. Oh, time runs very fast, but one more question. Is that okay? I know that you need to get your schedule again, uh, for your rest, but I know you are a night owl. Uh, Rob, about social media, right? Today there are so many, uh, not only counterphrases your, uh, profiles out there, but it seems that the social media put the fake accounts, fake profile easily, while we are the true content creators often get the flag on social media. So how can we overcome it? You know, there are so many, uh, fake profiles, uh, that add us, and it is okay, but we report it doesn't, uh, what is it, against the rules of Facebook, for example. But while we are the true content creator, we, we get warning like, you know, uh, about this, about that. And some people are on Facebook jail and some people on YouTube, uh, what is it, cancellation even. So how can we overcome that kind of risk on social media? Of course we cannot make our own social media like Facebook Facebook, right? That's why it relates with the previous question, like, should we be on all of the social media so we know what to do after that?

Yeah, I mean, I'm on all of the, all the major ones to some degree.

I mean, the major ones.

Okay, right. I haven't played around too much with like a Substack or whatever. I, I do have an account over there and I do play around over there too. And there's other you know, um, other, other platforms that are out there too that I, I just haven't— you are on Rumble, right? I'm on, I'm on Rumble too, as far as, you know, I have an account over there. I don't publish much over there, but there is a way that you can synchronize your YouTube content with Rumble automatically, and it'll do it on its own. So I don't have to upload directly to that platform, but You know, if you start looking at all these platforms, you really can't be in all of them and you can't really participate in all of them at the same level because there's just not enough time in the day.

I mean, that's true. I think back when the software or apps that, uh, can schedule your posting, right?

I mean, yeah, I mean, I think you can do that and a lot of people do. I think the classic example of this was when Facebook rolled out their their Threads platform and how everybody that was on Instagram all got prompted to go over to Threads. And they're still kind of cross-promoting each other. But, but I think there's a lot of people that just felt like, like Threads was just, you know, just like over the edge on too much social media. I mean, if you had profiles in all the platforms and you were posting multiple posts a day to all the platforms and it was unique content, that would be your full-time job. I mean, that's all, that's all that you would accomplish in your life would be being on social media. And I think that's what all these social media companies want you to do, but it's, it's not how you can— you should live your life, I think, is the thing. So, so I do think you need to prioritize, and I do prioritize just a handful of them myself, um, and it's generally the ones that I've been on for many, many years. Like, I started on Twitter X back in 2007, and I started on YouTube probably back in that same time frame, back in 2006 or so. And, and Facebook I've been on since they, they launched. So, you know, these, these platforms I tend to keep using are the ones that I've been using for a long time, and I've carved out that time out of my life to make, make it possible for do that, um, to participate in those platforms. But I do think that there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of validity to being over on Substack and some of those as well. So I've been playing around a little bit more with, uh, Substack lately, but I haven't gotten into like Truth Social or any of those other kind of, kind of, uh, social platforms that are out there as well. So I just haven't gone there.

I haven't been there. So what is special about Substack and how is it different compared with Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, for example, or even TikTok?

Yeah, I would say it's kind of similar to Discord to some degree and a little bit like— which is another one of these platforms.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And then there's Slack and then there's you know, all these, you know, I could, like I said, I could spend my whole day, uh, participating in these platforms. And, and it just doesn't, doesn't, uh, make sense to always do that. I mean, who knows, maybe if I have an AI, um, you know, assistant at some point that can, uh, maintain my presence on all these platforms, um, it can be automated. You can just tell it what to do.

I can be your assistant. Put me in. Call me in.

Right. Plug you right in.

Then I will be on social media all the time.

Yeah. They call it a virtual assistant, right?

Yeah. Yeah, virtual assistant. I can do that. But then I will be criticized also. Rob, the sound is annoying.

Yeah, but I think AI is going to enable that. I think it, you know, I would like to have my own personal AI that can maybe answer my emails or maybe sift through my emails to find out what's important based on my priorities, right?

Yeah, it would be great to have such kind of secretary office for us, isn't it? But then, uh, Rob, again, with the social media, with the personal branding, uh, yeah, maybe we need to close, uh, this So after this, even though there are so many questions, but, uh, I know that you have a long day with the social media after this, after the AI, right? And then two people still believe, uh, about the course you provide, for example, you, or the course you sell. They sell about how to create content, to create book with ChatGPT, but you created with ChatGPT, right? So So can we trust those kind of, uh, you know, courses or something like that? And maybe we can create one also because it seems that they make money very, very fast. How to maximize or how to create content with ChatGPT. And even now, that is a very expensive course.

Yeah, I You know, I don't really 100% know how to answer that because it's— you're going to have to evaluate it and decide for yourself. You know, I'm not going to tell somebody that they, they shouldn't try and pursue learning, right? And, and try and take information that may help them streamline what they're trying to accomplish with their online business or what they're doing in their careers.. So I think that there's always something to learn from everyone. So there's value there. The question that you have to ask yourself is, is the, the cost worth the value you get for that information? There is a lot of free information out there. There's a lot of information that you can garner that, that may be just as effective, and you don't have to pay a couple thousand dollars to get access to it.

Yeah, because we don't know the quality or the outcomes after buying or after learning from it, right? We don't know. We don't know the quality until we use it, right? But if we use the free content all the time or the free thing all the time, we don't have enough commitment to do it, to do the work, you know, to That's true. To be what it is instructed or, uh, taught on the program.

And it does— there is something to be said for, um, paying for something tends to make you want to commit to it more, right? Um, and where when something is free, uh, it's optional. So, you know, I think that there's a little bit of that in the the content creation business now too, is that a lot of— and we've seen this play out, you know, with platforms that are free, right? There's a lot of people that come in and kick the tires and, and start shows, but they don't keep them going and they don't build anything with them because they didn't have to commit to, to paying something for it. But you just have to evaluate and make sure that what you're paying for is worth what you're paying for.

And that's sometimes a difficult thing. And about the future plans and project, what are your next steps?

I'm going to keep working with creation platforms, recording kind of next-generation technologies and how that intersects with AI is part of that and keep creating content and get better as a content creator myself. Be a better presenter, whether it be virtually or in person, or, and get, you know, keep expanding that learning on my part and helping startup companies and new companies to find their markets and use my— Yeah, I thought that. Right, to help them get there if they're willing to support me too. So it kind of goes— it's an exchange. It's a win-win relationship is what I like to create.

That's true. But you are also the co-founder for some companies already, right?

So yeah, yeah, it's true.

So you have to have our book forward and everything. Oh my God, there are so many projects that we have to get done after this.

Yeah, I mean, there's I mean, you do have to form—

I'm very—

form a business, right? You have to form a business and you have to operate it. And, um, it's— I've been doing that off and on for, for years, um, at various stages of my work career, different kind of businesses. And some of them work out, some of them I, I sell, some of them are, are, you know, like I ran a restaurant for 5 years, so just things like that.

And I sold that business, so, right? Yeah. And you, uh, told me that, uh, Bill Gates' father was your loyal customer, uh, at your restaurant at that time. Yeah. That's why you closed it.

I don't understand that.

Yeah, I sold that.

Maybe—

oh my God, it will be like MasterChef, uh, kitchen in the with that kind of—

I sold him spiral-sliced honey-glazed hams, of all things. So he would, he would come in, Bill Gates's father would come in and, and get hams for his family dinners at his house that was right down the street from my, from my restaurant. So, so we used to stand around and talk too.

Where you work, uh, did you work for Microsoft Already at the time when you owned the restaurant? No, no, it was before. Oh, it was before. Was it because of it that you work for Microsoft?

Oh, come on. No, no, it really was because of my work in podcasting and radio that got me that, that role with, with Microsoft.

And then even yesterday, I've just Yesterday or last night, yeah, I found that, uh, what is it, Steve Jobs called, uh, Todd on his podcast. And yep, I, I knew it from one interview. I should interrogate him more next time because there are so many things I don't know about Todd and you. That's why I'm very happy that both of you become our, uh, what is it, cover boy on Live Podcast Insider. And now you are the columnist with your special segment, Stream Gen News I call it. So, oh, so many things that you really need to share with us that we don't know about. Maybe on one platform or one social media, but not the whole story. There are so many, uh, stories on your journey in podcasting for the 19 years without us, right? Oh my God, yeah, that is interesting.

And Steve Jones sent, uh, um, Todd a, uh, a MacBook laptop.

So, wow, for free? Yeah, with the signature. I hope that he still keep it.

Uh, I doubt that he still uses it.

It was a long time ago. Yeah, not about the laptop, but it is like, you know, the museum stuff that it will has more value after years because it is from Steve Jobs.

All right, all right, can we put in a museum, right?

Of course not. Your, uh, glass hand, we cannot put it on your signature menu. Maybe, maybe the menu, but not the, uh, uh, glass hand itself, right? Uh, for the museum, the Museum of Podcasts, or the Museum of, uh, the Journey of Rob Greenlee, uh, how into podcasting from the very, very different background, from the basketball, basketball player, and then, uh, the famous restaurant owner, and then into Microsoft, and then into— whoa, I don't know how to keep up with it. Thank you so much, Rob, for sharing everything with us today. It's been an honor and a pleasure to to have you on our show again. Always support, uh, our Live Podcast Summit and also, uh, Live Podcast Media program. And I'm looking forward to see you soon again, talk to you soon again. And how can we contact you the easiest way, on social media or email?

Or— yeah, you can, um, I'm on X, Twitter, @RobGreenlee. Actually, it's really most of my accounts are, are my name. So, um, @RobGreenlee on YouTube. I'm also, you know, I've got a bunch of shows that are up on, on YouTube. Some of the shows I, I have on YouTube been around for 16 years, um, and, and so there it's really kind of an archive of the early part of the podcast era is what it is because I put up a bunch of demo videos of some of the early podcasting, um listening platforms that I worked on in the early days, like Zune and, and Mobilecast, which is— a lot of people have probably never heard of that one, but that was one that, um, integrated or actually was shifted from a music platform to a podcasting platform back in 2005. So I was working on that back then. So, and you can also send me an email, rob.greenlee@gmail.com. Happy to hear from you. And, uh, like I said, I'm on Facebook and, and LinkedIn as well under my name Rob Greenlee. So I'm pretty easy to find. Just do a search in Google and you can find all sorts of interviews. I've done hundreds of interviews like this on other people's podcasts over many, many years, and it's, it's really kind of quite a, quite a journey that you could, you could follow and And if you go to my website, go to robgreenlee.com. Actually, I've got a WebTalk Radio archive section of that website that has a bunch of links to my very earliest radio shows.

Yeah, do you record everything? How many episodes? All the people we interview? Which media? Which link?

Something like that? I only put up the full episodes. Like, I, I put up one of the, one of the handful of the very first radio show episodes that I ever did. This was back in 1999. I think it was February of 1999 is when I, I posted my first MP3 to my, my WebTalk radio, um, show website. So, and then I've, I've got a bunch of episodes in there too if you want to go back and listen to the early days. It's, it's a little painful when I was in the radio station back in those days. But, uh, they were fairly— it was a fairly entertaining show, I have to say. I think the crew that I had that did that show had a lot of fun doing it, and it wasn't all, um, straight-laced. It was— there was a lot of jokes and a lot of things that were going on on that show. It was a little bit like a, like a morning talk show, that kind of a vibe.

So why not now? You, you sound more serious in every show that I watch you. So why not many jokes anymore?

Maybe because of the life. I, I mean, it's a very good question. I've, I've oftentimes thought about that.

I've think, or because you are a leader of some, uh, big brand, so you have to perform differently, more serious, that for your charisma, for your performance.

But then, yeah, and it wasn't really entirely about me. It was I was kind of like the, the main host of that show that I did, but it was really the personalities of my co-hosts. So I had, uh, 3 co-hosts, and each one of them played like a, like a particular role in the program. Like, like one of the, the co-hosts that, that had— he had a show name, it was called Crash Test Mark. So he would always come, come in with, um stories about software or things that he was playing with online that would crash, right, or not work, or that there was some problem with it or something. So the critics— yeah, so he was like— yeah, yeah, so he was going out and like testing some of these new platforms and new software, and he was finding all the bugs with them and how things didn't work and things like that. So he was making fun of these things. So, and then My other co-host was kind of, kind of like, you know, like to talk about, um, other aspects of what, what was happening in the online world. Because the whole topic of the show was the growth and development of the internet and the web back in the early days, and all of the weird things that were being created. Um, not unlike what we see with AI today, there's a lot of mapping to a lot of creativity, a lot of new ideas, a lot things that people tried that just don't really work or don't really make sense. Like, like one example is the early technology that we talked about on the show was the ability to transmit smells over the internet.

Yeah, that will be great for the long-distance relationship, you know, not only the smell but also to feel when we meet our future to a boyfriend or long-distance relationship and we meet someone, it will be great, but it will be scary at the same time.

But for some reason it never made it out of the product development stage, right, where you could electronically transfer to someone else's like little odor emitter that's connected to them.

But it will be great for the cooking show or flower or something like that. Or maybe if you live stream F1, then you can really feel the, you know, the heat, you know what I mean? Like, it would be great, I think, right?

But scary. It was spun up and articles were written about this new technology that was going to transmit smells over the internet.

So, oh yes, please, so I can smell my man. Just kidding. No, I mean, at least my audience will know that I wear 1 kilogram of perfume today, you know, a half kilogram of powder, and, you know, 1.5 kilograms of lipstick to be pretty. It will be great. Then they will appreciate that women, uh, are pretty, you know, not only on the screen like this.

Yeah, but that's what's kind of unusual. And then I built the world's largest glass of orange juice too, so I, I talked about that occasionally.

But orange juice, what can you talk about orange juice?

Oh, I built the world's largest glass of orange juice in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Oh yeah, I remember that, I remember that. Oh, for that one, for that one. Oh, I thought that you talk about how to create oranges or something like that. No, I just actually had Tropicana squeeze a lot of them for me, so that's all. Yes. Wow, Rob, again, thank you so much. I know that we have to go. It's been a long day for both of us, but again, thank you so much for all of your support, always, for Live Podcast Media and also our projects. And yes, there are so many projects awaiting for us— the Live Podcast Awards, oh no, and also after that, our book with your Forward. Oh my God, I feel very honored to have you there. And also live podcast summit in Bali. And thank you so much for all of the support for me. Thank you for having me on. And yeah, my— thank you so much for today. I know that you need to have some dinner and rest, and I have to continue to my real life. No, just I'm kidding. Thank you so much for being here. And yes, I'm going to put this on our podcast on Blueberry now.

I'm very happy to have you here. Okay, well, you should probably, because Blueberry is supporting you, and that makes sense.

I will, I will. Because yesterday I didn't know, it looked very nice on the studio on my mobile phone, but when I put the reply, there were some echo, so I don't know. I haven't checked the audio quality yet, but on the video it was very, very bad. So I don't know if I would put it on the podcast, but for today's session, for sure I'm going to put it there. Rob, thank you so much, and I love you so much for always supporting me, and have a great evening there. All right, well, thank you. And talk to you at the summit, right? Thank you, and I'll see you. Bye-bye. So there is our distinguished guest Rob Greenlee, who has been supporting me and also Live Podcast Media in everything I do from the very beginning. Uh, actually, the name of Live Podcast Media is also our discussion, our ideas, uh, to change from anitasonya.com and also to Live Podcast Media so that I focus more on live streaming and podcasting. And don't forget to subscribe to our Live Podcast Insider because Rob Greenlee will share, uh, more than 10 pages of exclusive content there about, uh, podcasting and also live streaming, uh, on Stream Genius segment. And here is the link. The link is already on the screen. And thank you so much, Blueberry, uh, again for supporting me as our ultimate sponsor, uh, for last time and also Live Podcast Insider. And do not forget to join us again tomorrow with our another distinguished guest, and I'll see you tomorrow. Much love from Bali, Indonesia, and don't forget to share the love everywhere. So that, uh, the people will feel the love that we share. Thank you so much, and I'll see you.

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