Rob Greenlee argues that spoken words, not visuals, are what connect creators to audiences. He emphasizes sharp sentences, purposeful pauses, and authentic vulnerability, and warns against the trend of visual-first content. His Tesla narrative series shows how word-centric storytelling works.
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Well, welcome to Podcast Tips. I'm Rob Greenlee, and thank you so much for being here with me tonight. I appreciate you taking some time out to jump online and take a look at my live stream, or if you're watching this as a video podcast, I appreciate you jumping in and watching it on demand. Because this show is distributed in just about every way possible out there. But tonight I'm diving deep into the art of video storytelling, and but there's going to be a little bit of a twist in this tonight. Um, not a huge twist, but as I think about my path on this, I, I really haven't focused on video storytelling too much, even though you could probably take away from what I'm doing here is I'm telling a story every episode, every Thursday night of sorts, but that's kind of not how I've been thinking about it. So this is kind of a new direction for me as I think about this show. And have I thought about, I mean, I guess I have thought about, 'cause I spent most of my career not doing video. So the thought of ditching the visuals of sorts, which is a big part of doing video these days, is having visuals, right? You can see me, you can, you can get my facial expressions. But what I'm trying to refocus on tonight is really looking at our words. And how we say them, what we say. And I've been thinking a lot about this lately and thinking about, well, maybe it isn't all about the splash of the colors behind me or the lights or the visuals, the eye candy on my shelf up there. Behind me is a fireplace up there. So I guess you could kind of— it's not really burning, but You could kind of think that I got caught up in the whole visual thing too, right? But I do think that eye candy does have a little bit of a place here. But what I want to explore today or tonight, depending on when you're watching this, of going back to the basics. And I think elevating what you're doing in your audio or your video around storytelling. And the concept of storytelling kind of takes you down this path of being thinking or thinking about truly connecting with your audience, right? And being seen as their friend or a trusted person on a mental journey of sorts. And I know that we all live in this age of video graphics, attention-getting visuals. I mean, all you have to do is look at like a MrBeast or some of these folks that have, you know, really invested a lot of investment in visual explosions and fast-moving camera angles and all this kind of stuff. And I think a few months ago he was quoted as saying that, well, you know, maybe that's not really the path that I should be going down. And I think this really gets back to kind of him growing up a little bit and realizing that, you know, not everybody that may have an interest in watching his videos are teenagers, right, or young people that enjoy that explosions and fast-moving cameras and all that type of sizzle that is in his shows. And maybe he needs to focus on better connecting with his audience on his words. And not being, you know, yelling at the camera or, or doing crazy things and, and not really focusing on what the audience gets out of this, right? Versus just kind of visual stimulation of sorts. You know, I think a lot of creators get caught up in that, and I think that, you know, for the younger generation, that's probably an appropriate thing. I'm not so sure it's appropriate for, for me because I'm in the, an older demo class that maybe doesn't value that explosions and fast-moving cameras and things like that quite, quite as much. But I do think that there's a balance here. And, and while great visuals can enhance your storytelling, sure, and I think that that's being done Every day on YouTube and on the video distribution platforms that are out there right now, I think visuals kind of fill a different kind of a role, especially around kind of like reels and vertical videos where the— not everybody has their sound turned on. Right? So, I mean, as we think about each one of us and how we consume content on our mobile phones, I think we oftentimes like to consume that content without the speaker turned on because maybe we're in a room with other people. We don't want to flood the environment around us with sound. So in some ways, your words are more important on the vertical videos because those are oftentimes displayed on the screen as like almost like a closed captioning type of an experience. And so I think words become very, very important in a lot of different ways. And I think as we, you know, I could really spend an hour just talking about this, how important our words are probably going to be in the future when we're even talking to our AI-powered computers, right? It's going to do what we ask it to do. And that's typically going to be done with our our voice. So our ability to communicate via text and via spoken word is going to be a very, very important skill that we all need to hone and define. You know, like how to maybe even speak an AI prompt. Now I'm really getting off the pathway of talking about creating content, but fundamentally that really could be one of the core skills that you develop as a content creator is the ability to tell a story verbally, to tell your AI engine and what you want it to do. And it's probably helpful to tell a kind of a linear story with that. And that's what I'm trying to do better tonight myself is to get in a flow that's that's basically stripping me back to the fundamentals and imagine myself talking to someone without a camera, right? But, you know, that's obviously not what I'm doing here. And without fancy graphics. Well, in some ways, that's kind of what I'm doing here. I do have some fancy kind of visuals and things like that. But I also think that there's a balance to be struck here. And I think people spending time listening is very important to you, and it's very important to me to be able to listen to you as well. That's why I love the aspect of having a conversation here. And speaking of that, I have a comment here. It looks like Arena Freed Watts wrote me, and and made a couple of comments. Uh, one was, uh, spoken word, you know, and, and is happy that I'm talking about that because I think it is a very important part of what I'm trying to do as a content creator now is get better at storytelling. And I think, you know, I've said this for years, but I'm not sure I fully understood, uh, what it meant when I said this. But I've also had this perspective that all of podcasting is really fundamentally based on our ability as content creators to tell a story, right? And, and so you've seen kind of a spectrum of that kind of fostered and developed in the content creator community. And oftentimes it's kind of segregated to, you know, the storytellers or the true crime people or the the producers that produce a narrative storyline or an audio drama or something like that. And I think that there's important takeaways from that, you know, like, you know, removing the crutch of visuals. Now, if you came at this from an audio-first perspective, that's really the only tool you have. Is sound, right? And your voice. And to be able to drive that to make a deeper connection with your audience, an emotional connection, a relationship-level connection without the crutch of visuals. Now, if you can use visuals to facilitate that as well, which I think to some degree you can, you know, driving this this visual message as an additional layer to your audio message. And I do think a very large amount of very talented video creators are skilled at doing that. But I think as a creator, and I'm thinking, like I've said here, thinking about this more, every sentence should be sharp, should have a clear idea behind it. And every word is intentional why I'm saying this. And even that sentence that I just said is very intentional to what I'm trying to tell you tonight, is that every sentence needs to be sharp, crisp, needs to have a clear idea, and it needs to have an intention behind it, right? Why am I telling you this? It's because this is the type of communication that really connects with people and really helps you as a creator, um, make all this worth your time. And I think words alone have the power to create vivid images in your audience's mind, which means that I need to create that image in my mind so I can clearly communicate it to you. And to have you get a benefit from that and create an image in the audience's mind of what I'm trying to say. To also, if you can, and in some content it's hard to, and some people either have a talent or not, is invoke emotion somehow, whether it's emphasizing something or or being really honest and transparent, or just being really authentic and vulnerable are kind of the key takeaways from that. People can either like you or they can dislike you, or they can agree with you or they can disagree with you. All of those invoke an emotion. And I think that is a very powerful thing to keep in mind. And so it's important to build kind of a narrative arc, and that's kind of what I've tried to do tonight with this episode, is to tell a kind of a linear story that kind of— it's almost like peeling back an onion, right? There's different layers to this topic that, that we all need to, to think about, and Hopefully that stays, that arc or that context of what you're trying to communicate with them really has a lasting impact, right? And that stays with them long after your story ends, and that really reaches you at a deeper level and your audience. Reaches them at a level of meaning that is important. And I think I've had this tendency to just kind of like rush through my content and then also just not be very focused on what that content is sometimes because I will kind of throw in kind of like these, you know, experiential kind of stories that I have about things that maybe take the topic off track a little bit. And you can kind of tell from, from maybe if you're listening to my content, how I, I easily kind of get off on the sidelines and talking about things that maybe I think are contextually relevant but maybe take me off track, right? So, you know, just like what I've done right now, I've shared some some vulnerabilities. Um, storytelling isn't just about entertaining or, or giving somebody a fictional story or educating them about something. It's about connection. It's about you and me seeing each other for who we are as best as we can. And this, this medium is not perfect at that. You know, I do get comments like I got from Pete here that I'll pull up on the screen here quick. It says, for mature people wanting to do podcasts or video, your stories are your niche. Right. And that blended in with your experience and how you feel about those things. Is how you reach others. Now, you know, like I said, you know, you may agree or you may disagree with what I'm saying, but what I'm hoping to do is to just cause you to react somehow and to have a thought yourself that maybe wasn't there before, and that you will expand your awareness of what's possible in your life and how you impact others when you communicate to them. And I think that is something that I've really tried to think about a lot, especially over the last few days, if I— as I thought about what episode I was going to do next year for podcast tips. And, and what if I stripped away some of the visuals, which which I have to some degree, but I still think what I'm doing here is pretty bare bones to some degree compared to what a lot of other creators are doing. It's not so much easier to add a lot of visuals to a, a live stream. Now granted, you know, the tool StreamYard that I use has, has a lot of tools for that. Like I can switch between my cameras if I want to, and, and I don't know, that's really gonna dazzle you with, you know, a visual experience, right? I think the big visual experience here actually that you experience is that my main camera has a lot more color depth to it than my other cameras. So if I go back to my other camera, you can see, wow, that's deep, rich green colors going on. And my face is a is more kind of flush of sorts. And then I go over to here and I, I look like I'm basically, uh, haven't got enough sunshine in my life. So, um, so, but I like to bounce it around and kind of change a different view here just to, just to spice it up a little bit. But at the end of the day, this is, this is kind of an example of what I'm talking about, right, of of— oh, there's both of us there. Um, and what you're left with is your words, you know, your face. You can see my face, and— but all I have is, is, is really my, my words. And my words hopefully communicate to you something that's helpful, possibly for, for you. Um, also shares a level of vulnerability. Um, and that's, that's my, my humanity. That's, that's what I want to share with you that can help you better connect with me. So that's how I'm increasingly thinking about all the content that I'm making now. And that has taken some time on my part to get to that point where I think about this stuff dramatically different than I have in the past. You know, I've been a podcaster for 20 years. You know, this past year was my 20th anniversary of being a podcaster. But back in my early days, I was on the radio, and being on the radio is a lot different than doing a podcast or like what I'm doing now with a lot of, a lot of visuals. Now Don't make a mistake here and understand that, or think that, um, I'm against video in some way. I'm, I, I'm really not. I don't think I've ever really said that tonight, that I'm against video. I just think video needs to be thought about from a, a spoken word perspective. It needs to tell a story. The video needs to be augmented to your experience and not be primary to your experience. And I think a lot of what I've done in the past, maybe as your recent past, has focused on the video being kind of my primary focus. And I'm all worried about transitions and trying to look all splashy and all this kind of stuff with pulling up websites and visual imaging and things like that, which may add to the story. Like, but this story tonight, I couldn't think of anything that I could put up on the screen that would symbolize, you know, telling a good story. The only way you can symbolize telling a good story is to actually tell a good story and, and be authentic and be vulnerable. And, you know, and I do think a lot of creators these days, um, focus probably too much on style, uh, and especially in their, their videos, what they look like, what their background is. And lose sight of the substance of the story, which is why people are really here listening to this. It's what's the substance? Does your story resonate with it? I mean, I have a question for you. Does the, does the, the thumbnail of this YouTube video— was it compelling? Was it a question? That's a big thing that I'm wrestling with right now as I think about what I'm doing as storytelling, right? What What type of show do I want to, or what type of story do I want to tell? And then how do I package that into something, into words, words that are featured, promoted? You know, the words I use for this episode is want to become a master at video storytelling. You know, do you want to be a master at it? Do you want to think like that? And I think that is something each one of us have to decide for themselves, and it's maybe going to take a lot of practice. It's going to have to— it's going to take a lot of interpretation of what we're doing and make it applicable. Um, because the truth of the matter is, if your story doesn't resonate with people, they don't connect with it, they, they tune out, um, you know, it really doesn't matter how polished your video is, if the message and what the takeaway is isn't there, then, then I don't know that people are going to stick around. So there must be a way to improve on that. And, and I do have a couple of, uh, comments in here that, that's come in, uh, from Pete Georgie George. I would love to have a chat on my show with you. It would be great and an honor. Well, thank you for the invite. I would love to have you on. Um, you know, I do a lot of, a lot of different types of shows, and, and this kind of conversation is kind of like, to some degree, what I'm talking about here. And, and then Reena Freed, um, Watts also wrote, yes, I want to be a master of that. Which is storytelling. And Reena, based on what I know about you, you are a master at storytelling. You know, I know your background and I know what you've worked on in the past, and you were a— you were in front of probably one of the most controversial storytellers of all time for part of your career. So I think it's It's an interesting perspective that you have, and, and, and really why you're here is because I think you do prioritize storytelling. And, and Reen also writes, it does take a lot of practice. Well, yeah, practice as doing, I think, is the, is the key, because you need to get comfortable in your skin And, and also how you prepare, mentally prepare, and maybe an outline. You know, I do have an outline that I'm trying to follow because I did some preparation before the show that helps me, you know, stay focused and stay on, on a story track, right? Um, because it really doesn't matter how polished my video is I'm also starting to do kind of narrative stories about driving a Tesla vehicle and talking about my experience in the car now. And, and so that's coming into that content, and that content seems to be resonating better than it was when I was really focused on a lot of visuals and not really thinking about the content that much. So I think the thing is, like, like Rena has just said, um, as a, as a practical aspect of your content creation, this can be a challenge for you. Um, so I, I challenge you to, if, if you're creating content, consciously think about this. Um, you know, in your next piece of content that you're working on. And, you know, I think it's okay to tap around a little bit with these AI engines to, to help you, uh, craft something, and then get in there and massage it and make it you and, and make it resonate and, and make it have a, a really, really kind of impactful experience for your audience. And it doesn't matter really, this conversation applies to podcasts, it applies to video, it even applies to social media. And I think that's the next thing for me as I think about what I'm doing here is that I'm going to take what I'm doing with this narrative kind of flow of content here and translate that more into my text-based social posts as well, and that may help because I do think that people want to connect with that. Um, and, and Reena writes here, um, that's awesome. And Georgie George, or Pete Georgie George— that's kind of a tongue twister, Pete— um, writes here it may take practice if you are talking about what you are passionate about, and then the storytelling becomes second nature, right? So you have to start, I guess, organizing your, your mind about how you tell the story. I, I think oftentimes when something is— you're an expert in something— is that I think sometimes you don't tell a good story about it because you're tapping into shortcuts because you're experienced at it and you're an expert at it and you're trying to save people time instead of really kind of laying it out and really having a flow that goes from here to here in a logical path. And that's what I'm trying to do tonight. And I appreciate, you know, all of the comments here because you're, You're flowing with my story, and I appreciate that. And that may be one thing that I was missing in the past, was I wasn't flowing with the story. So you as the audience could not really flow with me and make comments that were— that rode along with this track, because you can sense where I'm going and you can sense the theme that I'm on. And, and that, that is really, really an important takeaway from this. Um, and I think, yes, uh, you have watched the documentary. Yes. And, and Reena writes also, really, where is that content? So I'm not sure which, what you're asking about, Reena. Uh, and she also I want to try an AI Daddy reaction. Okay, well, your show format, you kind of bring on a guest that has a topic, whatever, and then your dad listens to the interview and gives a reaction. So what you could generate is that reaction via AI, right? And then have it in your dad's voice as a cloned voice or something like that, which I don't know how authentic that is. That, that's the big question about AI right now is how authentic is it and how believable is it? And is your audience going to connect with that content? It's going to be interesting to see what the future looks like when it comes to AI and authenticity and storytelling. I think AI can help with storytelling. Um, but I think it has to be interpreted by a human in order for it to really hit the mark, you know, and be compatible with who you are. But as you look to the future as a content creator yourself, try and focus on your words. Focus on how you're presenting yourself. Are you giving your audience a chance to breathe a little bit and to comprehend what you're saying? You know, a good um, high-level talk show host on the radio taught me a really good lesson on this. There's a lot of big radio talk show hosts that do like 3, 4-hour, uh, blocks of shows every day. And you know what oftentimes is a common characteristic that I've seen with those folks? And, uh, is that they're able to, to use their words as as a tool of sorts to, to, to drive different emotions and feelings in the audience based on their, their words. They say something with emphasis, and then they back off a little bit, and they get soft again, and then they come at you, and it, it kind of, you know, takes you back a little bit. So, you know, see how you can push your storytelling to a higher level. Next time you create a podcast episode or do a video, bring some passion to it, bring a little excitement, bring a little bit of, you know, pauses, but make them intentional pauses. Make them pauses that there's a reason why they're there. And that reason is is it helps your audience really think about what you've said if it's impactful, right? If it's not an impactful thing, and I'd say probably half of the words that I'm using are not that impactful, but the ones that are, you know, give your audience a chance to absorb it and take it in. So let's, let's kind of jump to another kind of piece of what I'm talking about here and give a little recap on the main points of what I've covered here. You know, let's just to remind everybody of what I've covered here and get it, you know, embedded in your brain around, you know, going back to the basics. Think about your words. You know, offering very basic video, you know, and it's, it's one of those things that I've, I've felt this contradiction is that there are very successful YouTube episodes and channels out there that the creator doesn't care about any visuals. They just have a screen, right? And behind them is a blank wall, or there'll be a plant or something back there. Won't be any fancy colored lights like I have. But they have tens of thousands of people listening to them, you know. And you have to ask yourself, well, why is that? Because you— because then you go over to another program and, you know, oftentimes they'll have fancy backgrounds like I have and they'll have a lot of people listening. So I think at the end of the day, the, the message and the words and how they're crafted, how they're communicated is actually overpowering what the visual experience is. And it also is a good story to think about in regards to the power of audio podcasting. This is because audio podcasting is primarily a words and spoken medium. And if we think about video, Video should just be additive to that, not a replacement for. So that same message story that you tell that's compelling to your audience, it, it also needs to be in your video. You can't get lost in the exploding visuals and the, the fast clips in and out, right? I see this all the time in, in videos where they'll the AI will cut to a zoom in of the speaker, and that may add to the experience, right? So if the camera quickly zooms in, right when I say something impactful, then that might grab your attention and create a reaction, 'cause it's almost like, I can do things here without even having to have a zoom. I can just get close to the— the camera, but I don't think it has the same impact. But so the next point is vulnerability and authenticity to connect, right, with your audience at a deeper level. And don't let style overshadow the substance of your story. So, but I think style I think style with your voice, I think, is the most important thing. Maybe not style with the graphics, like the images up here and what's on my shelf back here is maybe construed to be a certain style, right? Eye candy of sorts. But is that eye candy kind of a distraction, or should the focus of this be on me, my facial expressions, my layers of telling the story should matter the most. And I think it, I, I think it does, you know. And I think that this all challenges us, like I said, you know, a few minutes ago, challenges us to refine our storytelling and to mostly rely on our words to say what's important. You know, remember, no matter the medium, the essence of your story is really what matters. And whether you're using text, video, or graphics, always stay focused on what you want your audience to feel and remember. And, and, and I thank you for being here. Let me, um, see if I can find a few more comments in here before we call it a night. Um, let's see here. Reena writes, comments must help with the flow. Yes, I, like I said earlier, I think that the comments, bringing them into this conversation, is really, really important, um, to have that flow. And I haven't always had that flow on this show, and I think it's disconnected with the audience. Um, and, and Reena also writes, uh, the Tesla content. Well, that's basically— I have a, a video camera that's mounted on the, the glass roof of my Tesla Model 3 that that's a 4K camera that points out the main windshield and also looks at my big screen on my dashboard. And I turn the car on full self-driving and the car drives me around and I just tell stories about Tesla and my experience with the car and with the software and how it works. What are some of its flaws and what's kind of going on with the company. So it's, it's kind of a narrative storytelling that's based on what's kind of happening with my experience with the car and then also what's happening with the market around Tesla. So, so, and I'm thinking about this, this topic of storytelling in the same way with that show too. Says yes, AI reactions could be fun. So As you're thinking about AI as a potential replacement for your dad in your podcast. Yeah, I can see that. And then Pete Georgie George also writes, you don't have to bring this on screen, but I am just about to do a show titled The Art of Conversation in a Digital World. Well, that's awesome. That's a good, good topic. Episode to, to do that maybe is a little bit, you know, similar to this conversation tonight. So, well, thank you everybody for being here with me tonight. I certainly appreciate it. And if you're watching this as a video and audio podcast, I appreciate you being here as well. And so if you wanted to follow me, I, I I do have some contact information, uh, rob.greenlee@gmail.com. I'm also on X, uh, at, uh, Rob Greenlee as well. It's up on the screen. And I do have a YouTube channel, so if you're watching me live on LinkedIn, YouTube, um, X, uh, any of the, the, the live streaming platforms, um, this is my, my YouTube channel that I have that Tesla content that I was talking about, and then also all the episodes of, uh, Podcast Tips. So, and then I'm going to be down in Orlando next week, so I'm not going to be doing an episode. And I'm the chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame that's going— that's being held down in Orlando on January 17th at 7 PM Eastern. And a video of the Podcast Hall of Fame induction, um, event will be posted online on, on a platform like YouTube on January 19th. So if you wanted to see the 11 inductees into the Podcast Hall of Fame, that will be available on YouTube, and I will share links in my, my X feed and other platforms to that as well. So, um, let me see. Looks like another Question came in here. It's from Pete Georgie George. Have fun at Podfest. Well, thank you. I will be very busy. I'm doing 3 panel sessions. I'm doing a live new media show on stage at the event, as well as having a couple of panels and solo session myself talking about what's the difference between being a creator and a podcaster. Is my, my solo topic. So I'm excited for that. I'm excited to get down to Orlando. I'm up in Connecticut where it's in the teens up here. It'd be nice to get back in the 70s again for a while. But, uh, thank you so much for being here with me tonight. And like I said, I won't be back next Thursday. It'll be after I get back from Orlando on the 20th. That, that I will do a new episode that following week. So thank you so much for being with me here tonight, and please send me some comments and thoughts about my topics and also what you would like me to, to talk about on this show and cover. And I would just love to hear from you. So thank you so much for being with me here tonight. So, and go, go subscribe to my channel if you can. That, that'll get you notified when a new episode is made available up there, or any live programs. So please, please do that, and have a wonderful evening. Thank you so much. Okay, good night.
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