#415 – Rob Moore – Progressive Property Investing — The Next 100 Days Podcast

Hello and welcome to the Next 100 Days podcast. My name is Graham Arrowsmith.

And my name is Kevin Appleby. Graham, we've done a few podcasts lately about property, property investing. So we've got Rob Moore with us today who might give us a slightly different slant on learning how to do this.

Yeah, it's a bit like, Rob's a man of many, many skills and talents and I guess property's just one of them. But Rob, welcome to The Next 100 Days Podcast.

Thank you for having me on your show.

Well, we're delighted that you've joined us, but I mean, first of all, you have your own podcast. Just remind us and our listeners what that's called.

Yeah, it's called Disruptors. We are around about 1,000 episodes in now. I think we launched January 2016. I've just interviewed Andrew and Tristan Tate, who are two of probably the biggest guests in the world right now. And yeah, I interview movers, shakers, game changers, and change makers.

Brilliant. That sounds like a far more exciting subject to talk about than investing in property.

It puts our 400 and whatever it is, 10 episodes to shame. There's not that many who've gone beyond us. And you are one of them. I mean, presumably you are, Doing what? What, a couple a week?

Yeah. Well, apparently the average podcast does 21 episodes, so you are exponentially further down the road than them. Yeah, I do 2 a week. One on a Monday where I interview famous mover shaker, game changer, changemakers. And then on Friday, we publish episodes where I'm being interviewed just because I don't wanna be left out. I'm not just an interviewer.

Ah, okay, that makes a lot of sense.

You, you, I mean, you sound like you got an English, um, accent there, Rob, but I mean, I can't quite, uh, apart from it being probably south of, south of Watford Gap, but whereabouts are you from?

Yeah, I don't know where I'm from. I have no home. I was born in Newmarket, which most people don't know, and then my mum and dad moved a lot through Mildenhall, Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough. So did they take you with you?

Did they take you with them?

Yeah, I always found them. I always found them when they moved. Boom boom.

Right, yeah, it's an easy one really. But, uh, but you, um, all right, so it's kind of, yeah, it's a, it's a good accent now. I mean, I mean, um, I've got my Dixie Dude, um, ranch. Um, if, if Dixie Dude had a ranch in the UK. It's probably going to be somewhere near Newmarket, I would think.

Certainly a lot of horses in Newmarket.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Is that something of an interest of yours then, Rob?

No, no. My dad owned a few racehorses. My godfather was a very successful jockey, but I don't bet on anything except myself. I've never really had any interest in betting of any kind. So, no.

Well, I mean, you're a disruptor. What makes you a disruptor?

Well, my show is called Disruptors. I don't know that I'm not disruptive in the sense of Uber who disrupted taxis or Airbnb who disrupted hotels, but I've always been a bit of a rebel. I certainly like proving people wrong. If someone says I can't do something, that usually is the motivation I need to do it. And generally when it comes to investing in business, one should observe the masses and do the opposite. And maybe those 4 or 5 things make me disruptive.

It's an interesting philosophy and it's one that I've heard several times over. I mean, particularly over the last sort of, I don't know, 9 years I've been listening to and following the works of Dan Kennedy in the United States, who's, you know, he's kind of got some very fixed views. He's maybe right of center, but a great direct marketer and he's created a lot of millionaires as well. So is that somebody that you are aware of? Is that somebody that you've followed in the past?

Yeah, I remember probably 16 years ago studying his No BS series, although it looks like knobs. When it's written on the books, he needs to separate the N-O and the B-S. But yeah.

That's probably written for knobs, isn't it? But at the end of the day, it is no BS. It's a bit like my postcode, you know, it's 0BS. I couldn't have asked for a better one. That's great. You know, it's something, a little-known fact, I actually created First Direct's postcode and every time I write a cheque, I look at that, I did that. I did that. Little known fact, but one of those things, hardly disruptive, but it made me feel good in the moment when I, you know, I will have that.

Okay.

But you clearly, you've done well in business, but was that always the case, Rob?

So December 2005, I was about 50 grand in debt, which, you know, with inflation, what it is now, 50 grand back then was a lot of money.

Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe, oh, maybe that's nearly 100 grand now if you actually see what inflation really is. And I had credit cards on credit cards and credit cards and a car loan, 5-year car loan, but I'd had the car not even 3 and I sold the car and I'm still paying the loan on the car without owning the car. And my dad had raised me to be an entrepreneur, but I think the school system and university caught me and got me trapped. And at age 26, I was still living in my dad's pub, working in his pub. So no, the $250 million in sales that I've done since and the 340 properties that I own and my 19th book coming out in literally 10 days and the 1,000-odd episodes and the 1,350 properties we manage and the 7 supercars and the yada, yada, yada. No, all of that was in the last 15 or so years.

What made you a rebel then when you were a kid? Were you a rebel at school? Did you upset your teachers?

I was good at not getting caught. So yeah, I was a bit disruptive. I used to put my hand up the girl's skirts under the table but never get caught for it. Um, I've never shared that on a podcast, by the way.

We'll have all these, um, all these people with me too. Oh, that was me, that was me.

No, I got consent, you know, I got them to sign a piece of paper before I did it.

Yeah, I don't believe that for a minute. But, uh, but yeah, no, no, well, that's, that's I mean, I recognize some of that and, you know, I mean, it's sclerotic, is school. You've got— you're almost forced down a pipe and it can get too much for creative people. And presumably you had a bit— that bit of creativity in you. I mean, if your dad's an entrepreneur, you're bound to have had— you're bound to have observed it.

Yeah, well, my dad taught me to be an entrepreneur. The school and the education system untaught that out of me. It bashed out my entrepreneurialism, enterprise, and creativity, and I had to relearn it at the age of 27.

Yeah.

So that kind of really to me put shame to the education system that I had to unindoctrinate myself and unlearn all the bad habits I'd learned from school and university. Yeah, it, it was, I mean, look, my dad had a nervous breakdown on December 15th, 2005 in his pub in front of all of his customers. He was arrested and beaten up by the police in front of them all. And I had been drifting in my life for more than 10 years. You know, sometimes your debt doesn't happen overnight. Sometimes it's like that slow water torture over 5 or 10 years. You only need to be at 50 or 100 pounds a month the wrong way, and over 5 or 10 years that compounds.

Yeah.

And then I got that rude awakening with what happened with my dad to do something with my life and take responsibility and not be a victim and not blame everyone else. And, you know, within one year I'd cleared all the debt, I'd made 100 grand, and I'd bought 20 properties with other people's money. Within the next year, I'd bought another 30 with other people's money. I'd sold some, I'd kept a good few, or still own 340 of them now. So yeah, you know, I took the bull by the horns when, you know, when I saw what happened with my dad. I also retired my parents and bought them a house and buy them a car every few years or finance the car that they want. So probably the worst day in my life, I would say December 15th, 2005, seeing what happened to my dad. But maybe it was the thing I needed the most. I think many people are living these comfortable, what is it they say? Quiet life of desperation. Things aren't bad enough to change, but they're certainly not good. And to me, I'll happily shake the, maybe that's why I'm disruptive. I'll shake up my own life and make it hard for a short while knowing that it can be much better for a long while.

The hardest thing in all of this, Rob, though, is, is getting started. No, once you've started making some money, money makes more money. But you've got that day back then, shook you up, knew you had to change. So what actually comes next?

Yeah, so I want to explore this a little bit, Kevin, because everyone says that the hardest thing to get is to get started. And I kind of agree. For example, you know the truck pull in the World's Strongest Man, you know, the strongest men in the world are pulling really hard and that truck is not moving. And then once that truck moves, it has really good momentum and the truck almost catches up with the strongman. And certainly business and life can be like that. You know, the law of conservation, there's an energy law which says, um, Body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest. Starting is a body at rest and so it tends to stay at rest. It's harder to get it moving. So from all those, I wanted to give wider context and not just say, oh yeah, it's hard to get started. It's a natural law. So every day you just start doing something prolific over perfect. Start now, get perfect later. Every day you move forward, you're closer. What I will say though, Kevin, is the first year or two were the best years. I was romantically naive. I thought we were going to take over the world. I thought I was going to own a million properties. I didn't know how hard it was. I didn't know all the challenges that were ahead of me. I would actually say that lockdown and COVID were much harder than starting. And I now have a lot of responsibility. I was saying this to my wife yesterday. I used to be so free and rebellious and used to do all these disruptive challenges and I used to go and piss people off and get everyone talking about me. And now that I have 130-odd staff and at times a million a month overhead, like tens of millions of debt for my property portfolio, maybe I'm not as bold. Maybe I don't take as many risks as when I used to. So it's not necessarily the hardest thing to do to start sometimes is much easier than when you've been doing it 15 years and there's a bloody lockdown. But to anyone who believes that it's hard or it takes money to make money, all I would say is just get used to being imperfect, messy success. You know, one foot forward, start now, get perfect later. Don't— your first property deal should not be your best deal. It should be your worst. Because if the second isn't better than the first, you're not learning. So you have to get the first deal out of the way. You know, we've all got an ex. You know, hopefully now we're happily married, but we've all got an ex. You have to kiss a few frogs. This is the nature of life. So don't take yourself too seriously. Be prolific rather than perfect. Embrace imperfection and enjoy the start. That is when you can be the most dreamy and the most romantic.

That very first property that you bought, sold, or at least you bought, talk us through that. I mean, that must have been a little bit trepidatious. It must have said, well, this is new to me, but I'm just going to do it. Like you said, you don't have to be perfect, but you just have to move forward. So, What was the property? Where was it? Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so I still own it today. 26 High Road, paid £125,000, put £12,500 down, borrowed the £12,500. It's definitely doubled, if not more. Although actually a lot of properties I bought in 2008 have doubled.

Yeah.

And yeah, I only, I developed 23 flats and sold them and then I flipped, I don't know, I maybe sold 350 and the rest I kept. So I probably sold half and kept half. I regret selling all bar one. Of those properties. It's easy to say that now, of course, you know, I wanted the money at the time and I would source for other people and get a sourcing fee. But no, I should have kept the lot because that would, instead of 340 units, that might be 800. So, you know, I have a little strategy: buy, hold, die.

Right. Are these properties Like many people, are they in the north or are they spread right around the country?

No, they're all very local to me. I don't spread around the country. I don't think scattergun works very well unless you want massive overhead and massive stress.

Sure.

I think that finding a local area, we get the tip off of the deals before they go in the estate agent's window. We know the best suppliers. We hear what's going on on the street for the people you shouldn't use. We know the values better than anyone else. We're able to negotiate well. Like, I have a few fundamental rules of buying in property. No new build, no overseas, no off-plan, no scattergun.

So Rob, with a portfolio like that and quite a buoyant company employing a lot of people, Cash is coming in nicely, but you've written several books. We've already talked about 1,000 episodes of a podcast. Why do that?

Because it's more enjoyable than dealing with boilers and tenants. You know, most people don't wake up when they're 7 years old and say, I want to manage boilers and tenants and gas and boiler safety checks and insurances and Section 10 this and 10 that.

He does, but no, no, no, he doesn't. You don't, do you, Kevin?

No, no, no, I've got no desire to do that at all.

No, no, no. But yeah, yeah, that's the reason you've got it. But you managed to get yourself like an A-list of guests there. I mean, I was just before we started, I was listening to a couple of things, just a little snippet of a couple of your guests. And they are, I mean, they're super fascinating anyway. And I'll take time to sort of dig them out and have a good listen because you clearly have a way with these people and 1,000 episodes in, you're doing pretty well. I mean, how do you attract the first few who were in that area? Did you just have to brazen it out? Right, I'm Rob Moore, come along and have a chat.

Yeah, the first, let's say, 30 episodes I did solo, and then I started reaching out to guests when I wanted to expand my reach. It wasn't that difficult to guess. It wasn't that difficult to get guests when I started.

Yeah.

Just because there weren't as many podcasts and I thought, well, as I grow, it'll get easier and it did get easier. But then when everyone else starts doing podcasts and people pay for guests, for example, it can sometimes make it more difficult. But yeah, I am, I'm creative. I write letters to them rather than just DM them on Instagram. And I'm consistent and persistent. So I get some guests after 2 or 3 years of nagging. I now, you know, I have 3 million followers across my social and my email database. So, you know, I've got some leverage there as well. I've got my own brand in my own right. And, you know, interviewing people and creating content and making money on social media and running, you know, we run the UK's largest property training business. It's more than 20 million a year in sales. The teaching, the training, the speaking and the interviewing and the content creation, that is the more enjoyable part than the tenants and the boilers and the operational and the legal side. So I have a letting agency that manages all my properties and I have all my staff that do the operational stuff because no one really gets into property because they love bricks and mortar. People want it because they want money or freedom or choice or flexibility or retirement or legacy. It's normally way beyond just the bricks and mortar.

Yeah, definitely get that. I mean, being in a similar business to you in terms of training people, writing content, running workshops and so on, that is very definitely enjoyable. That's, that's interesting. That's worth getting up for in the morning.

Very rewarding, very rewarding.

Yeah.

You know, properties, as long as I get my property rented out, that's going to go up in value. The rents are going to go up and it's not like I'm changing the world through this brick and mortar block in front of me. But when you help people out of the doldrums or out of depression or out of being broke and you know, you help them make money and you help them achieve success, That is one of the most rewarding things to experience as an entrepreneur for sure. I mean, I do it for the money as well. I make a lot of money out of speaking and training. I do have my own foundation, but I'm, you know, it's not a charity for people who say, oh, I don't do it for the money. I just did it to help people. Well, do it for free then. I like to get paid, but I like to feel that I'm doing good value as well.

Yeah.

Tell us about your books, Rob. I mean, you've written, did you say 11 books?

19.

19. So you've written 19 books. They cover lots of different subjects. So it's not just about property, is it? There are other subjects as well.

Yeah. Well, I started writing about property because that was the one thing I'd got quite good at that I knew about. Yeah. So we wrote Property Investing Secrets, Cash in a Property Crash, Multiple Streams of Property Income, No Money Down Property Investing. And I started going and writing all the property books. But then when I expanded beyond being a property investor to be an entrepreneur, I wrote Life Leverage. I wrote Start Now, Get Perfect Later. I wrote I'm Worth More. And then now really I mostly focus on writing about money. So I have my book Money, which is one of the bestselling books on money in the world. And then I'm just about to launch Money Matrix, which is beat the money system and build generational wealth.

And what's the sort of essence of that last book? What are you telling people that they probably don't know?

How the money system really works, what the money system doesn't want you to know about how the money system really works. And then once I've exposed it and taught you how it really works, then show you how to leverage it to your advantage. I'll give you an example. I don't keep that much money in the bank, um, because it goes down with inflation and they can lend and invest it and they make out it's guaranteed, but I don't believe the guarantee. So I'm getting a really low return while the banks are making record profits risking my money. I don't think that's smart. Most people don't know that. However, what I do do is I borrow tens of millions of pounds from those same banks to buy real estate, because they'll lend it to me to buy property. And now the banks are taking all the risk. Why should I take all the risk with my money? Yeah. So, you know, if there's some big— if the banks collapse and all the money goes, your money could be gone. Not much of mine will, because not much of it is left in the bank. But if the banks crash and they've lent me £45 million, well, they've got to come and chase me for that. Yeah. And, um, I'm probably going to benefit if the banks crash. So You know, that's one thing I learned. I learned to leverage the bank's money. And if you look at where the banks invest, so by the way, Vanguard and BlackRock are essentially banks. They're funds, but they're essentially banks because they control a massive amount of the world's money. And BlackRock just put about $10 billion into Bitcoin. Lloyds Bank want to be the biggest private landlord in the UK. You know, this fund's buying up masses of real estate in America. Watch where the banks put their money and put your money where the banks put their money because they made the rules of the game.

You come from a particular angle when it comes to this. You seem angry and I sort of have a huge amount of empathy with— angry is probably the wrong word, but it probably is true in the sense that the world's almost constructed to eat away at our opportunities. You've just mentioned the banks and the way in which they're operating. You could look at Bill Gates and his investments in land and agricultural land. I mean, why is that? I mean, there's a whole range of, shall we say, elitist investments out there, elitist behavior that are going to change and that are changing, have changed, the world. Is that something that bothers you and is it something that you think you can do anything about?

So in the last week, at least 7 people have said to me, Rob, you need to go and get a massage. You're tense, you're angry. And they're right. Honestly, I am angry that we got locked down. I am angry that VAT's 20%, corp tax is 25%, higher rate taxpayer on income is 45%. National insurance is what, 12%? And then there's the Employees National Insurance, and then there's business rates, and then there's all these regulations you have to pay for, which are essentially taxes. You're taxed on what you earn, you're taxed on what you spend. You buy fuel, you're taxed twice. You pay 80% in tax in things like cigarettes and alcohol and things like that. I'm fucking angry about that. I don't know if I can swear on your show, but I just did. I'm really angry about it.

It'll cut it out. Don't worry about that. I mean, you can say what you want.

It's wrong. You should leave it in. It's wrong.

Yeah, but we'll live in there.

I mean, people are so scared.

I'm the chartered accountant that believes that all taxes is legalized robbery by the government.

Yeah, well, but you're— I share— I know already I share many of your views. And so, but basically your view is that I personally feel that we've been attacked by forces without, and my job in life is to make their life harder to get to me. So, you know, I don't have the wealth that you've created, but in my own way, I will do what I can to avoid paying whatever I can to these people. And I certainly won't toe the line when it comes to sticking things into my arm because somebody says it's good for me.

Yeah. So, I mean, where do we even go with this? I agree that, you know, inflation is a form of tax and tax is a form of theft. There's an argument that we don't even need to pay tax because government create money. They just print it. Well, they don't even print it now. They just digitally create it. I don't mind paying tax if it's fair. Excuse me. I don't mind paying anything if it's fair. So I ranted this morning that it's completely wrong that HSBC made record profits of over 30 billion and it's because of increased interest rates when those increased interest rates are causing millions of normal, ordinary, honest, hardworking people to be repossessed. That is wrong. If a bank creates an amazing product or service that makes our life easier, like Apple Pay, you know, just the tap, or when Amazon made that one-click upsell order button, they're valuable things. People should earn money when they're valuable. But the banks and the central governments, they offer no value. We are the products. They just consume off of us. They take, take, take, take. Over the last 20 years, the UK has removed nearly all of the tax breaks and benefits for being an entrepreneur. So it's much harder to start to be one and you have to pay more tax. That's why everyone's leaving the country to go to Lisbon and Dubai and Kuala Lumpur and wherever else. They're ruining the country. They're systematically, the crime rate's through the roof, the stabbings in London, there's 3% conviction on theft and rape, 3%. And this is all a reality. However, you asked me earlier, what am I doing about it? I'm ranting about it and I'm geeing up millions of people to get them to take individual responsibility because with a voice with millions of us, we can change things. Individually, we can't. So I am kind of rallying people up. I'm writing my book, Money Matrix, which is, you know, exposing the system and then how to play the system at its own game and win the game of money.

Okay.

And I'm also creating, I am creating, well, I have my own education platform, so I have rob.team and I teach people how to make, manage, and multiply money. I teach people As an accountant, for example, Kevin, so much you now know in the real world of business and being an accountant that should have been taught in school but wasn't. The basic stuff was taught. But for example, I had an argument with an accountant because an accountant said to me that cash is an asset on the balance sheet of a bank. Because he's been taught to be a traditional accountant. But cash is a depreciating liability. The banks know this because they immediately lend and invest it out. So actually, cash is a liability to the banks and they turn it into an asset and then they have the income come in from the asset. This stuff isn't taught at school. It should be taught at school. You're not taught to budget at school. You're not taught how to do tax returns and handle your affairs at school. Why not?

Rob, I completely agree with you here because I think back to school, learned an awful lot of general knowledge, but 90% of it is of zero use in the real world. Yeah, okay, great. Henry VIII had 6 wives, built, lived at Hampton Court Palace, yeah, learned all about what grows on the plains in Canada in geography. So what? Doesn't make any darn difference to anything. And the one really useful thing I think I could have been taught at school at the time was how to type. Kids at the grammar school didn't learn how to type. That was for the secondary modern who were going to become secretaries and typists. Little did we know that the world was going to be turned upside down in the next 5 years and nearly everything you did was going to be on a keyboard.

Yeah, I learned to touch type. I think it's a valuable skill, but we're just, honestly, it seems like we're on the same page here. So where I draw the line is it angers me, it upsets me. I have a rallying cry and then I'm like, right, draw the line. How can I minimize my tax, maximize my income streams, invest in assets, get assets out of the into decentralized platforms, buying gold and watches and Bitcoin and things like that. How can I protect my assets and my wealth? How can I make, manage, and multiply money? This is the motivation from the anger. Maybe I should be grateful to the government because if they hadn't locked us down and if they hadn't whacked up inflation and yada yada, maybe I'd have got a bit complacent. I don't know, but I'm not complacent at the moment. I'm hustling. Because there's a war on entrepreneurs, there is no doubt, but there's a war on everyone.

Have you ever sort of considered why the things are happening around us that, you know, the, you know, they call it in America, the lawfare that, you know, the things that are happening to Donald Trump right now in terms of, I mean, he's a property expert, but you know, the the sort of efforts they've taken to try and trap him and entrap him with ridiculous arguments. But, you know, the law is constructed in such a way for that to happen. There are things like that that really hack me off. That it's, the idea of the word fair just doesn't come into it. It's an unfair system that is driving certain behaviors and one side think, yeah, we're getting the bad guy in their eyes, but through means that are, I don't know, illegitimate. Is this something that bothers you? I'm sure it must do.

Yes and no. So, yes, it bothers me when relatively innocent people are cancelled or deplatformed or imprisoned. Yeah, that really bothers me. Well, I say relatively innocent because I'm sure Donald Trump's got a bit of a checkered past, as have most powerful people. But essentially, there's powerful people that run the world, and because they're powerful and they control the world, the world is their playground and they make their own rules. There is no such thing as law, by the way. There is just a set of rules that are convenient to people who make the rules. And then when it's not convenient to them, they'll change them. So there's no such thing as law. There's, you know, like gravity is a law.

Yeah.

But anything that's passed in Congress is just a convenient bendable rule. But here's the thing, and I think about this and I try and be really honest, chaps, about this. If I owned the world, would I be any different? Well, my morality likes to think I would be, but I'm told by many people that power corrupts. I wouldn't say wealth has corrupted me. I'd say I'm probably more generous and more honest now I'm rich. But I'm not, you know, I'm not Putin level of rich. And maybe if I got that rich and I knew the power that I wielded, might I write the odd law that might favor me? Probably. Might I write a few anti, you know, just get rid of a few of the competition? Maybe. I like to think I wouldn't make people ill like the pharmaceutical industry, you know, seems to have ulterior motives. And, you know, I don't like industries where profit incentives are based on not making people's lives better. Now, okay, drugs can extend life, but really they're just things to be addicted to. So you own a company, you make the rules of your company within the rules that the government allow you to make. I own a company, I make the rules. So it's human nature because this country is run by humans. I just wonder if they've lost touch with reality or with the people. The problem I think I have is they see people as a product and not as a person. So I should shut up, pay 70% of what I earn and what I spend in tax, get loads of debt and pay interest for the rest of my life and not question anything and then die and give 40% of what I've got left back. If I feel like a commodity or a product, that feels wrong. I want to feel like a person with rights. That's what I think has been forgotten. The banks and the governments have forgotten that we are people with rights and they see us as products.

Hmm. If I could say to you, right, okay, your words are now going to really impact a whole bunch of people who are about to become entrepreneurs, who are about to make a change in their life to make their lives better in some monetary way, what would be your— and you only get the sort of length of a long lift escalator, if you like. To sort of explain to them your 3 things that would basically help them. And you're thinking, well, if they just took on board these 3 things, there's a decent chance that they might actually do well. What would they be?

It would be to honour yourself enough to find out where you can be good to great, where you could turn your passion into your profession, your content into your cash flow, or what you already know into cash flow. And be honest with yourself. Don't think you're better than you are, but don't think you're worse than you are. But there's that thing we've all got. Tap into it, number one. Number two, find out how to create a product or a service or something linked to that that could help a lot of people. So for me, it's better financial education and knowledge across the globe. And then number 3 is you've gotta figure out how to get that in front of as many people as possible, which means you've gotta get good at getting attention. I'm here on your show cuz you're 400-odd episodes in and I might reach a new audience with you. And so I exchange my time for that. So I've got much better at getting attention over the last 10 years with, you know, the millions of followers that I have. So honor your uniqueness and greatness, turn it into a viable product or service that helps people and get it out to as many people as possible. That is the 3-step formula to success.

I don't know about you, Kevin, but that's awesome advice.

It certainly is. It certainly is. And Rob, you actually answered a question that I had waiting to ask you. I've got a page open on your website that says, hire Rob as a speaker or a guest for your podcast or YouTube media inquiries, hire as your mentor. And it goes on to say, I'll probably say no unless you give me a good reason below. Now, we didn't even approach you to be on here. You approached us. So I was going to ask you exactly that question of why would you come along when you're saying that to Graham and I to be on the next 100 days?

Well, to be quite frank, as you are frank, it was one of my team members that reached out because I'm launching a book in 10 days called Money Matrix, and I'm prepared to give my time for the next month to as many shows as possible. I have some criteria which you hit. I want them to have more than 100 episodes. Don't want them to be a new show just because of my time, not because I'm elitist in any way. Yeah. I often help people get going by supporting them when they start. But yeah, I've got my book Money Matrix coming out and I will do, I'll do 100 shows, I'll do 500 shows. Obviously, you know, we know you. But yeah, I want to get, I want, I want a million copies of Money Matrix shifted in a very short amount of time, at least.

You know, that, that actually fits into one of my theories about how do you get yourself into that disrupting position and make a noise? Well, I actually think guesting on podcasts is a very good way to do it. It's for very little effort. And okay, an hour at a time for each show, you can get onto a lot of shows. You might have an email list, you put things out in your email list, you tend to hit the same people every time. So if they didn't buy last time, Why are they gonna buy this time? Probably not a great reason. But you're there in front of our audience this time, somebody else's audience tomorrow, another person's audience the day after. People don't know Rob Moore. I've heard some interesting things. So I really do believe that guesting on podcasts is a very, very powerful way to get yourself out there in front of people.

You know what, Rob, we did a few, a couple of years, 2 or 3 years ago, we, a lady used to work for me, I asked her if she would do an analysis of every guest that we've done for the last 100 guests at that time, and have a look where they are in our show was in, you know, when you search for them on Google. And it was something like 85% were on page 1. And if you added page 2, nobody goes there. But if you did have page 2, then it went up to 96%. So in other words, we basically— and all we were doing was creating this hour-long, give or take, content, and then sticking it out every week and doing a little bit of promotion on things like LinkedIn and various other places. And that was it. But for some reason, Google loves it. And it ranks it all the time. So I'm not with you. I think it might be damned difficult to get onto page one for you. But the because not many people are like Rob Moore. But at the end of the day, we serve people in that way. I don't charge anybody. We come along, they come along as guests, and we celebrate them. We have a bit of a laugh and we have a bit of a chat, not scripted. And hopefully, at the end of the day, listeners get something from it that, you know, at the beginning of the conversation, they had no right to know. But you told us a few minutes ago, a really, really good way of starting up in business, some things that people can hang on to. So, you know, I think that's the important thing. Podcasting does work and you've obviously made it work as well.

Yeah. Only 0.000482% of people do a podcast, I think. It might, I might have got one of those noughts slightly wrong, but it's a small number, whatever it is. It's a very small number. And so being a podcaster, being a podcaster is a great way to get your message out there.

Yeah.

Going on shows is a great way to get your message out there. People often say, well, what would I have a podcast on? Or, oh, why would anyone want to interview me? But as you know, doing 400-odd episodes, it takes a lot of logistics to get guests. And, you know, it's probably helpful when people reach out if they're half decent, because it's a bit easier. You don't have to do the same amount of work. And like you said, you're ranking in search on every one of your guests. So there's, that's 3 ways of leveraging content. And by the way, this can be repurposed into Shorts. So another reason I'll go on shows is because I've got 2 cameras here. I'm in my studio. And so my editors can take Shorts of this. So, you know, the, the 3 ways to be successful that I mentioned, that'll be a short. My little rant on, you know, the system will be a short and they'll go on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. And often those shorts get me millions of views.

You can say what you bloody like about TikTok, cuz I'm never on there. I mean, I did have a TikTok, but it, somebody said it was something to do with the Chinese and they're gonna take you and take your data. And I'm thinking, nope, that's the end of my TikTok. Um, but, but they get you in different ways, don't they?

I mean, I, I actually think some of your podcast runs would be quite good on TikTok, right?

Well, maybe. Yeah, I, I've thought about— I just don't know how to do it. Maybe, maybe the guys who are filming this for you, then maybe— well, who always tell us how to do it.

But, um, who worked out how to put a podcast together in the first place, Graham, when there was no experts around selling courses on how to do it?

No. Well, there you are.

Just ask your co-host and he'll probably work out how we put stuff on TikTok.

The one, the one thing about you, Rob, though, is that you are, you are air league when it comes to to podcasting and to the value you've brought to our guests, our listeners. And I would just like to say on behalf of Kevin and I, thank you for joining us today on The Next 100 Days Podcast.

Well, you can see why Rob is a disruptor.

Yeah, yeah, very much so. Yeah, he's A true Renaissance man, isn't he? He's got lots, lots of different streams of business, and, and, um, um, he's getting some fantastic guests on his podcast as well.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's gone really into it, into the A-League, hasn't he? So I, I suppose Rob is probably, from that point of view, one of the highest profile guests that we've had on this show.

Yeah, he's made himself that way, and, um, it's interesting how, how his his start in life almost tripped him up, but that horrible day that, you know, his father took ill, it changed his life. And I think a lot of us are a bit like that, you know, when things happen to the people around you, it does change your life. And I think he's really, he's shown us what you can do if you're in that pivotal moment. And as you know, he's— he'll make use of that piece of collateral from this podcast on his channels.

Oh yeah.

So, you know, it's— for me, um, what we can do together for the world is keep interviewing people like Rob, push the envelope a little bit, and ask a few other people who I'm sure we can learn from. Whether the Tates come on to talk to us or, or other people that he's, uh, he's spoken to, don't know. But the end of the you know, we can, we can pick and choose the people that we invite. Um, but many people turn up at our door. I mean, for instance, this morning we, we recorded an episode with a wonderful Australian lady, and we basically, um, I was just chatting with her, and, but her specialism is in the sales area, and we learned so much from her. And, you know, we've got future guests going to be talking about gold, we're going to be talking about all kinds of different things. We might even have a future son-in-law coming along to the show as well. But we're negotiating on that very point right now.

He's met you and he still wants to be your son-in-law?

Well, he's asked permission, it's been granted, and she said yes. So, so that's the, that's the breaking news. And so we, Yeah, we're looking forward to a wedding later on in this year. So, so yeah, that's going to be fun.

You're going to have to make some money to pay for that then, Graeme.

Well, that comes to mind as well. So, but yeah, so on that very happy note, I've been Graeme Arrowsmith.

I've been Kevin Appleby. Goodbye.

Goodbye.