How to Grow the Startup Ecosystem Across Australia

Hello everyone and welcome to our webinar about startup ecosystems across Australia. And I am very fortunate today to be joined by one of the leaders, Ben Chong. Before we begin, if anyone has a question that we don't get to cover in our discussion, pop it into the chat. We're going to try and address people's ideas and questions while we're together here. And other than that, if you're thinking of becoming an ecosystem leader, I'll bring this up a couple times, but you can learn more about how the Founder Institute can help you by going to fi.co or founderinstitute.co, fi.co/lead. This is where we talk about how to become a local leader of your ecosystem and work with the Founder Institute Institute. And speaking of local leaders, let me just tell you my view of Mr. Benjamin Chang and then let him introduce himself. He's been a local leader with the Founder Institute for a number of years, approaching like 7.

It's been a number of years.

A number of years. We've become very good friends over those years. So I know a lot about him. But the best thing about it is that he's really helped the Australian ecosystem grow. And so rather than me espousing his amazing biography as a founder and an investor, Ben, why don't you say a few words about yourself to open it up?

Sure. Thanks for having me, Adair. I'm really glad to be here in Palo Alto, deep in Silicon Valley, at the home of the Founder Institute. And I'm very fortunate over the last 20 years to have been through the process of having started built, bought, and sold technology companies, not only in Australia, but abroad. So I've been very fortunate to have been through that journey as a founder. And in 2011, I came across Adeo Ressi. We were introduced through a good friend of mine who was due to take part in the very first semester of the Founder Institute here in San Francisco and suggested that we get in touch because at the time, 2011, we realized in Sydney that we needed an organization like the Founder Institute to help founders connect with mentors who had built companies before and to assist those founders through that process of developing their ideas, turning those ideas into reality, and later scaling those businesses hopefully into global enterprises.

Yeah, and you know, your career has been amazing. Let's go into Australia a little bit here and I'm gonna pop open Seoul. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, if you have questions, pop them into the chat. I have an associate in the other room who's monitoring the chat and he'll pop them up here for us to address. So, Ben, earlier today we were talking about some numbers in Australia that you had seen coming out from a number of different organizations, the Australian Venture Capital Association, etc. Maybe, why don't we start off there? What's going on down under, so to speak, with respect to startups?

Well, I think since 2011, there has been a huge increase in the number of startup activity across Australia, not just in the capital cities like Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, and Perth, and so on, but even in smaller towns and regions across Australia. So I'd say over the last 5 to 7 years, there has been a real increase in the number of activity. Been an increase in the number of corporates, large companies, who have recognized the potential disruption that startups may have on their businesses. So they have made efforts, they've made initiatives to try to get ahead of startups, or in some cases to support startups by investing in startups themselves. So what I'd say, as a whole, there has been an increase in the amount of folks who are starting businesses, who are starting businesses that could go global. And at the same time, there has been some positive signs from government recognizing that technology and technology-enabled businesses are going to be a larger part of our economy's future.

So let's talk some specifics. So one thing that I've seen is that like there's this superannuation funds in Australia, which are enormous, right? For those of you who don't know how big they are by comparison. I don't think there's any other program of that scale anywhere else in the world, and it's a relatively small country, and there's raw dollars in superannuation are enormous. So there's been some talk over the years about opening up superannuation funds, and I believe that's begun to happen. Is that correct?

That's right. So some of the superannuation funds have made a move by backing some venture capital firms, including ourselves. So by night, I'm with the Founder Institute trying to help founders build their dream company, and by day, I'm a venture capitalist at Right Click Capital. And we do have some money from superannuation funds, which are the retirement savings of many Australians. So what has occurred over the last probably 3 years have been a number of superannuation funds perhaps the more courageous ones have decided— because they're fairly conservative. They have been conservative in the past, but they've recognised that, I think, over 10 years ago, if you looked at the top 10 companies in the world by market capitalisation, there was only one, Microsoft, which was a technology company. But if we look at any gauge of market cap of companies today, you'll find that on any given day, maybe 5 or 6 of the largest companies that are listed are technology companies, and they're people who make product, whether it's Google or Apple or Microsoft, that we use every day of the week. And I think because of these changes, the superannuation funds, as well as folks who have long been longtime investors in entrepreneurial activity, people like family offices and high net worth individuals, have decided to back more venture capital funds, which I think is a wonderful thing. So you've got 3 things happening. You've got people who are wanting to start businesses. We've got folks all around the country, as you all around the country, right? You've got folks like us who have been entrusted money to invest wisely, new investors, new investors. And then there has been a proliferation of organizations like the Founder Institute, who I think are enabling those who have the dream to help make it a reality.

So that's the perfect storm for greatness. John was asking, and please, if you have questions, pop them in the chat, you know, ask Ben about his views on the Australian startup ecosystem compared to those of other countries which he's familiar with. So you were talking about those three great things, right, that are happening in Australia. But like, how does that compare to other markets? I mean, you're pretty familiar here and a variety of places, I mean, bar here, right?

I think what is interesting about Australia is because the market is not so large, Australian founders have over time had to realize that to grow a big business, they need to go overseas. And one of the wonderful things about Australia is that a little bit like the United States, it is a very multicultural society. There are people who have come to Australia from many countries, many nations. And that means there are linkages, there are languages, there are understandings of different cultures that can be used as people are building these businesses to come up with a product or service that can serve people not only locally, but people abroad.

So as an investor, I understand that when you take money from superannuation funds and other things, you're limited to investing some of that money in Australia, but you're— which is okay, there's nothing wrong with that— but then you're looking at those Australian businesses to go outside of Australia because 25 million people or 20, 30 million people, even if it's wrong by an order of magnitude, is not a lot of people.

It's not a lot. By the time you segment a market, how many people are left-handed who will buy left-handed scissors, who will cut ribbon a certain way, and who buy gifts that the ribbon gets attached attached to, it's very small. And therefore, we like, at the Institute and in my day job, we love founders who have an ambition, who have a desire to serve many thousands, millions of customers around the world.

So when— so, right, so really you would say what big difference in Australia, and going back to John's question, is like other markets, it's got some great pieces the talent, the money, and the programs.

Yes.

Right. One thing that makes it more positive is that because it's not a very big market and it's multicultural, you're thinking global from day one.

Yes.

Right. And so that's a big bet. Trust me, a lot like in the US, you don't think global till like you're maybe ever in some cases. Right. And yeah, in Albania, you don't have the talent necessarily, the multiculturalness to think global, but in Australia you do. So that's That's definitely a big benefit. Are there any other benefits or negatives of Australia compared to other countries? Because right now, I think, candidly, just let me add some context. I think Australia is sort of like on this— it could fall or it could rise. And really, I think it's not determined which way it's going to go. So any other positive or negative?

Well, I think, first of all, we need to acknowledge it's a very competitive world out there. So you've got governments of Singapore, you've got governments in Malaysia, you've got governments of New Zealand who are very supportive of entrepreneurial talent.

And aggressive.

Very aggressive, not only with their funding but being able to—

Incentives, yeah.

Yeah, enroll a lot of the government sector, whether it's through education or immigration, to make conditions that are more conducive to growth. But I think one of the things that Australia does have, apart from The—

so you're in— so technically you're in an aggressive region, right? Because you just brought up— so like Jakarta and Indonesia, a lot of people in Indonesia, yeah, being aggressive. India likes to think it's the startup hub, though if you look at like Flipkart, it was actually started in Singapore. Singapore is beyond aggressive, and Malaysia as well. That's right.

And it's now owned by a large American corporation.

It starts with W. So, yeah, so what you were about to say—

So, what I'd say, one of the great things Australia has is that we are a continent. We're not just a nation. We are a continent, and we have a 3-hour time zone difference between the East Coast and the West Coast. And this is important because I would suggest that something like 60%, if not more, of the world's internet population can be serviced by that time zone.

Oh wow.

And therefore—

You mean China, India, Indonesia?

Oh, exactly. Wow.

I never thought of that. That's a great point.

And of course, when we wake up on the East Coast, we're able to service a lot of the West Coast of North America. It is coming up to just past midday on the East Coast in Australia, and it's just after 5 o'clock here in the afternoon. So I think there's the opportunity for Australian businesses who are chasing global dreams to look after their customers, to look after their clients all over a large part of the world.

Wow, I never thought of that. That's great. Bipul was asking, we work with many startups that are pre-revenue, but getting seed funding is a big challenge. And you know, you run seed funds, so I'm sure you know. And he's essentially asking, how can Australian startups get competitive seed funding. So you run a seed fund and I mean, you've told me, and I don't know how confidential this is, that you don't see a lot of great deal flow across Australia. I mean, maybe it's a factor of the continent size or whatever else. I mean, so is it a matter of just like these founders need better preparation and handholding to get ready? Or what do you think could get— I guess the question is, is it a deal flow problem or just a funding problem or both?

My view is that money is very fluid.

Well, there's a lot of wealth in Australia. That's another benefit you didn't bring up. The superannuation funds have more wealth than I've ever seen. Plus the mineral wealth has made people so— I don't think that— So you're saying capital is there.

I don't think capital is is the main issue. I think a lot of the issue—

I would agree—

people is being able to get founders into a position such that they can present something that is compelling to investors.

Right. Well, and you have some investors that are not— so I know this about Australia, there's a large number of investors that aren't as sophisticated as you. So you have, maybe from my perspective, and correct me if I'm wrong, You have a large group of unsophisticated investors. Nothing wrong with that, by the way. That's great. But you might not be able to pitch the same thing to Ben to them because what Ben understands is like complex. What they understand needs to be comparatively simple. And then conversely, you have a smaller number, but a growing number of sophisticated investors. And I think what you— so it sounds like a lot of the companies don't can't get sort of pitch market fit in that they're not really good at pitching the unsophisticated investors and they're not really good at pitching the sophisticated investors.

That's right. And therefore, I think the opportunity to spend time either with investors or with people who have raised money before and can provide those pointers is critical. What I'd say, people, one of the big reasons why we say to founders at pre-revenue stage to perhaps spend a bit more time with the customer is to generate more of what we would call a product-market fit somehow.

With the investors? Investor-market fit?

Well, I'd say you'll get more investor-market fit if the founder has more product-market fit, right? And the more that there can be a demonstration that the founder's customer wants to buy the founder's product, even if it's a rudimentary version of the product, then I think the less risk that you are asking the investor to take on and perhaps less of a leap of faith. Of course, investing in early-stage businesses does require a lot of backing of the founders, but I think the more things that a founder can do to de-risk, if you will, the investment, the more likely it is to be appealing to an investor.

So Lisette has a question and I want to get to it in a moment, but I just want to talk about the de-risking. Derisking statement for one second before we— Lizette, we're on it. We're going to get there. So you see a lot of deals in Australia, right? And so, you know, you made a couple of comments that I want you to unpack, like de-risking and product-market fit. So are you seeing companies come to you kind of too early or they haven't de-risked or—

Oh, look, We are, so at Right Click Capital with my day job hat on, we'll invest as few as a few hundred thousand dollars as our first check-in to a few million dollars as our first check-in. And we're happy to invest in businesses that have no revenue as well as those that do have revenue. I'd say that for businesses that don't have revenue, the most important thing is the quality of the team. Have they had experience before? Have they worked well together? Do they have demonstrated record of making stuff happen, right? Like, there are acronyms for this that are well known, and we like founders who have a demonstrated ability to get things done. And I think the more that that can be shown, the less of a risk it is, right? And of course, the risk— that's what an investor gets excited by.

So programs like the Founder Institute could theoretically help with that across Australia to get some of these competent teams to demonstrate further traction. So let's go to Lizette's question, which is, what do you think the best motives are for investing in Australian startups besides country pride? You brought up the opportunity to service 60% of the global internet population. That's a good reason, but what are your reasons?

I think it's a good thing to do. It's a fun thing to do, but ultimately we're investing superannuation money. We're investing your retirement savings. So the reason why it's good for us to do is that we believe, based on our track record as well as our current investments, that it will make a strong return. Right. So at the end of the day, it has to, it has to make a return. And while there can be some government incentives, while there can be certain benefits, I think in the long run it has to pay its own way and it needs to make a strong financial return.

And right, just to put that in perspective, on the average fund, every single investment, I don't know if it's the same, you kind of have to have a vision of how that one deal will return the entire capital.

Exactly. Of the fund.

Of the fund. Now, if you think about that and just work backwards on the math, you might own 20% after some diluted rounds and maybe some pro rata participation. So your order, or maybe even less, so 15% to 20%. And you might have, what is your fund size now?

We don't talk about that publicly, but we—

Tens of millions of dollars, right? Let's just say, is that fair to say? Tens of millions? So now you've got this relatively small thing in a little company and it's got to return tens of millions of dollars. So it's technically you got to sell for hundreds of millions of dollars? That's right.

Hundreds of millions of dollars. And that's why I think it's a competitive market out there. It's important to know how to pitch well and to position the business well, but also to have a business that has the opportunity to become significant, to become large.

There's another big benefit though that you forgot to mention, which the es— DAX, right? I mean, that's a, that's a, it's the probably the most innovative stock market in the world today.

I would say they have been very keen to attract listings of high-quality companies, including technology companies. And there have been a number of technology companies from the US without crazy amounts of—

so as long as you have a good business, right? Because in the US to list, you need to have of, you know, lots of revenue, hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue. But ASX is flexible, right?

They have a lot more flexibility, and that's great.

So that, that creates liquidity options. Okay, I want to move on to— so, so how to create strong starts. So we talked a little bit about the ecosystem. Is there anything you want to add on the ecosystem that we didn't cover? Maybe, you know, uh, we had mentioned you'd seen some of the numbers looking a little bit down on investments or volume, or it does go up and down a bit.

I know that there was a of surveys that came out just a few weeks ago from Startup Muster, from the Victorian Startup Association, as well as the fintech groups, and the numbers were a little bit different. Startup Muster said the numbers were a little down. The Startup Vic said the numbers were up significantly, whereas the fintech association was saying that the fintech numbers were positive. But what I would say is that you've got to treat all of these surveys with a little bit of salt, recognizing that they are targeting slightly different groups. But I would suggest, generally speaking, the direction is going in the right corner.

Right. Well, that's because, you know, if nothing else, more money is flowing than before. So Ben is— John is asking about your fund, Ben, which is what percentage of investors are overseas?

And like most of our investors, John, are Australian.

That's great. So essentially you're able to get capital from Australia and repurpose it into Australia. Well, so talking about just the startups themselves, right, and building great startups, what are your thoughts on the, you know, you see some of the best companies across Australia, you've been involved in some of them, like maybe what are some, and we got all ecosystem people on today and all ecosystem people watching. And possibly some founders as well. So what is the thing that makes an Australian startup amazing in your mind? Either ones you've invested in, been involved in?

I think first of all, it's founders who are terribly passionate about something that they've decided to quit their day job or about to throw in the towel of their day job and put their life's work into reality. I think that is a terribly captivating and magnetic a very magnetic quality that, that we love seeing in founders. I think the other thing is being able to show that this problem that they're trying to solve has a large application, even if it starts off small, right? Start off with a single customer, but recognizing that it can have many, many customers in future. And I think the other thing that gets us excited are people who have a real desire to learn. None of us can be experts in everything. We can only be experts in a few things. And I think when there is the humility of a founder, or at least the eagerness of the founder to want to soak up information, because you see them at this event, you see them at another event, you see them trying to make contact with a mentor or someone who has done it before, that to me is very exciting because they're wanting to stand on the shoulders of others and not necessarily make the same mistakes and then to hopefully go on to some level of greatness.

So I'll tell you a couple of funny stories to that. But before I do the story, you know, I obviously work with thousands of founders, like, so I can't stand it when a founder is like, you're like, here's some advice and they start arguing with you, it just shows such a bad, you know, at least they could say, hey, I don't agree, but thank you for the feedback. But like, because, you know, being able to learn is so important. But one of my favorite stories to that effect is I had dinner one night and one of the, the CEO of Slack was there and we were chatting. He's like, My product sucks. He literally was just like, my product's terrible. I was like, you know, I kind of agree, but like, you know, you have a lot of users, so it can't be all that bad. But I mean, he's like, I just—

but doesn't that got to show you he does have, uh, he has a hunger and humility to, to, to, to call it out, but he knows that he's got to improve it. And, and, and what a wonderful position to be in, to have, I don't know how many hundreds of millions of users using that product and then to recognize that there's this huge opportunity for improvement. It's pretty cool.

Dave was asking, has Ben's funds invested— and you have more than one fund, is that correct?

Yeah, we're investing out of a second fund now. Right.

But you have more than one. All right, we'll come back to that later. Has Ben's funds invested in many West Coast companies? Like, what's the opportunity in Perth, etc.? Which is actually the next—

You must have read our run sheet beforehand. That's a great question.

And in fact, can I broaden it to all of Australia? So not just, but go start with the West Coast and then go.

So I do like Perth. I enjoy Perth, but we have not made an investment into a Perth company yet. We would love to. We've made investments into companies in Adelaide, into Melbourne, into Sydney, Brisbane, as well as New Zealand. Yes, we've been into New Zealand and Singapore.

Okay.

So we've made investments. So at Right Click Capital, we invest across Australia, New Zealand, and Southeast Asia. We dearly love to invest in Perth, and we do see a number of presentations from Perth founders. We just haven't invested in one yet. So if you've got any suggestions, Dave, I'd love to know.

So, so, so with that said, you know, you're missing Gold Coast and you're missing Perth, right? The other cities are pretty much all the big cities. And, you know, one of the topics, number 3, is what's the strengths and weaknesses of different cities? Do you have a— so obviously you're in Sydney and in many ways Sydney is the number 1 market, or what's your view? How about that? Let me not judge.

Yeah, I would say that I would say that we're fortunate in Australia to have lots of beautiful cities. And I spend a lot of time in Sydney, in Melbourne, as well as Brisbane, and a bunch of time in Auckland too. And that's where the bulk— the survey suggests that that is the bulk: Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, that arc has the bulk of startup activity in Australia.

But there Is it like 70/30?

Yeah, it's more than 70% easily.

Okay, more than San Diego, that sort of arc.

But we like going to Adelaide. And one of the reasons that we like going to Adelaide is that I suspect there have been less investors who have been visiting of late. And there are some great universities, two wonderful universities in the city of Adelaide, being the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide. Two very good universities, as well as a real push by the government to move towards high technology and defense-related industries because of the departure of a number of the large manufacturing companies from, from that state. So there's been a real push by the government to, to push things towards innovation. I would suggest that in Brisbane there have been a number of great—

this is another big city—

a great a great number of medtech companies that we've come into contact with. So that's pretty cool. And then in Melbourne, we see a whole range of businesses, but I would suggest Melbourne has a wonderful array of software businesses, software as a service businesses.

So what about Perth and Gold Coast, which are the other sort of big markets in the country, if you will, by population?

Yeah, on the Perth Perth side is very well known for being the mining capital of Australia. Yes, mineral wealth. That's right. And we've seen a number of marketplaces as well as technology-related businesses that are trying to service and support the mining industry. And then on the Gold Coast, we've seen a whole range of businesses from marketplaces to software to e-commerce.

So, I mean, it seems like, I mean, let's be candid here. If you're a young person or our sweet spot at the Founder Institute tends to be, let's say, 27 to 40. So, maybe young wouldn't be the right definition, but you're in this sort of professional point in your career and you say, okay, I want to go start something. That's happening everywhere. It's happening everywhere in the world, every city in the world. And like what you're indicating, which is something that we see in other parts of the world, I'd love your views on, is that are some hubs for things like clearly Perth is a mineral town, if you will. And so if you can start a business that can play on the strengths of the city you're in, that gives you a bit of a competitive advantage in getting going for finding talent, finding the first initial customers and things like that. And you brought up the specialization of the different cities. Do you think, you know, It's better off like if you can do something in minerals, you do it in Perth than in Sydney or doesn't matter?

I think being close to the customer is really important. So if your largest customers are going to be mining or mineral companies, then being in Perth is probably going to be easier than being in Timbuktu. And similarly, if you're trying to build a business around financial services, or fintech, then being in Sydney, I'd suggest, or possibly Melbourne, would be cities that you want to consider. And the reason, the reason is that you have the opportunity to be close to some of these fintech hubs. You have the opportunity to be close to your customers. And I think the point you were bringing up before, Adeo, about serendipity, I think that's really important. Being able to network with people trying to meet with folks who perhaps have made the mistake that you're about to make. And if they tell you beforehand, you can anticipate and hopefully avoid that little pitfall. I think those things tend to happen in clusters. And that's not to say you can't build a great business if you happen to be out of one of these capital cities. That is definitely possible. But I think your chances of success tend to work better when you are at least spending enough time with people who are motivated and who also can provide you with insights that you otherwise wouldn't get.

Close to the cost and error, serendipity. A friend of mine, Tony Say, likes to call that collision ergo the collision conference.

Whoops, we did it again.

Right. Well, so on that front, Mike, let me ask you about, you know, so this is a bit of a tricky question. Do you think Australia can dominate the region in terms of startups? And I mean, I obviously think you believe something like that, otherwise you wouldn't have started a fund in the area. But you've been investing now for a while. You've got heavy competition from places like Singapore, you had brought up. Malaysia, another one. Indonesia, to a lesser extent. You've got massive markets available to you in India, English-speaking, also somewhat Commonwealth-y, if you will. You know, blunt, what do you think? Can you do it? Can Australia do it?

I think the opportunity is ours. The opportunity is ours. There was a period where Australian swimming, for instance, dominated when it came to the Olympics and It wasn't because we had the world's largest population. It was because there was a generation of folks who invested in Australian swimming and coaches who were not only motivational, but they knew how to drive performance amongst those athletes. And I would suggest the opportunity is available to Australia should it choose, and it's not the choice of one or two people. I think it's the choice of many people. Of these people, yeah, to get together and to work in concert with the unified goal to support each other, to build companies that wish to go global, and to benefit from the experience of those who have walked before.

Well, I mean, look, so the raw ingredients are there, better than in many of the countries around you, right? The rule of law, right? That you are among the best in the region. Maybe Singapore is equivalent. Capital, right? You certainly have capital or as much capital as any other market in the area. And it's highly concentrated as well in many cases, which is not like India. Capital's there, but it's all over and in lumps and difficult to access and corrupt and all this other stuff. You've got talent, educated talent. And you've got a relatively decent-sized population, which is saying, let's say Singapore or doesn't have. You have an interesting home market, not big enough, but enough to maybe get started.

That's right.

So you have the raw ingredients for sure. I love the fact that people need to band together and start work. So like, you know, look, FI believes in Australia. That's why we're there. I mean, maybe like since we have some ecosystem leaders here and we're going to have a lot of them watch, What would you say to them? Like, say, okay, we need to do this in order to make it happen. So you brought up the swimming and the coaches and the trying. Like, what can Australian ecosystem leaders do, banding together to help be like the coaches that made swimming amazing?

Well, I think if you're interested in being part of the movement, it is to step up and be a leader. Now, maybe being a leader is considering joining the Founder Institute, perhaps as a founder or perhaps as a leader, and that is to look after the relevant chapter of the Founder Institute in your city. And what I love about the Founder Institute is the opportunity not only to meet with people locally. So I've had the opportunity to meet with great founders as well as co-directors and mentors in Sydney as well as Melbourne and Perth, the other cities that we've been in Australia. But I've had the great benefit and good fortune to meet with Founder Institute leaders worldwide.

Right.

And I've got friends now, whether I'm in Canada, whether I'm in Istanbul, whether I'm in France or Japan, I can call my Founder Institute leader friends and they'll give me advice they'll hang out with me and I'm able to learn from them.

Well, that is a good— I mean, we have a ton of people right now, for example, at Web Summit. They had a whole big dinner there. If I wasn't working like a crazy man, I might go. But yeah, no, that's a beautiful point. And like by stepping up, you know, maybe being a Founder Institute leader, but just taking the initiative is 90% of the battle.

That's right.

And then the second thing you alluded to, so, you know, take a first step. And try and help, right? And then the second thing is collaborate, right? Which you alluded to with knowing the different people and talking with them. Because you can't be competitive and in this bunch of— and that's happened in Australia. There are some people that don't play well with others.

That is true, but I'd say that Founder Institute folks are those who do want to play well because we know the great value that we play within the ecosystem, but we also recognize that we're one cog in a large machine. And if that large machine is to perform well, and that is being creators of world-beating startups, then we need to work closely with others, whether we're talking full-time accelerators or full-time incubators or providers of money, or other folks who are within the ecosystem?

Right, I mean, it's really, we believe one of our core values at FI is collaboration, and we say it takes a city to raise a startup, right? And maybe in this case, it takes a country to raise a regional winner. I mean, the great irony, like Flipkart, one of the biggest companies out of the Asia-Pacific region in recent memory, was out, quote-unquote, out of India but incorporated in Singapore, right? So why weren't they incorporated in, you know, Australia? And why can't you have in Australia your own flip card? I mean, so let me, like, maybe before we go into like anything else about— and don't be shy with questions, by the way. I'm watching. Thank you for the nice compliments, Lisette. But if You got questions, we're here to answer. But let me ask you, like, is there a company like a Flipkart that you're particularly excited about in Australia that you're seeing? So one that's come out of New Zealand, Xero, right? Whoa, look at that. Now they have their HQ is in Australia, right? So there's a win for Australia.

Well, they have a— they are listed on the ASX.

Right. And they moved their They've got a large office in Melbourne. Right. So is there any other, maybe, you know, let's just look at Australia, not, but if there's one in New Zealand moving to Australia, fine. Is there any other company like Xero?

I think you brought up Xero there. One of the interesting announcements that took place last week is that the former CFO of Xero has announced that he is joining a company called SightMinder, which is an Australian company originally from Surry Hills, not far from Central Railway Station in Sydney, as CEO. Wow. And he has been a public company CFO for a number of years, previously at Virgin and then at Foxtel and then at Fairfax before that. And after his time at Xero, Some people are asking the question, could this SiteMinder, which is a software that enables hotels to manage all the channels that the inventory is distributed on, so it might be this internet booking site or that internet booking site or—

I just had a nightmare with that this weekend, by the way.

Yeah, it's not nice to have a collision when you're making an online booking. But yes, they've managed to attract a very high caliber. Individual to lead that business. So it'll be fascinating to see how they go. I think they've got some 600 people who have been employed. Same owner? Yeah. Wow. They've got operations around the world.

Well, that's a great business idea. I literally booked a hotel this weekend and then they called me and were like, no, no, no, you didn't book it. I'm like, what? So, uh, that changed my weekend plans a little bit. Uh, you know, it was okay. There was massive smoke in the area, so But that's a great idea. So like, okay, well, that's one. Any others maybe earlier that you're excited about in the Australian world? Because it's gonna be online for a long time.

I know. One of the companies that I've been really fortunate to have been a part of, a very small part of, is a graduate of the Founder Institute. They took part, I think, in 2012, maybe 2013. It's Gophar. Danny Adams and Ian Davidson from Gophar. Have created. So Danny is a former rocket engineer. Oh, he got a Bachelor of Engineering in aeronautical, aeronautical engineering at the University of New South Wales, and he came up with this great device that you plug into the car, and it's got a special algorithm that is able to decipher all the information that comes out of the car's onboard diagnostic port. So it's able to reduce the fuel consumption of the car, it's able to make sure you don't brake unnecessarily, and it's also able to work out where you go and how many kilometers or miles you spent going there, which means that it can save on your taxes because it's got a logbook for you. It's able to save on your brakes, save on your servicing costs, and also save your fuel. Yeah, which is pretty cool. And these guys, what's impressed me about them is that it has come from years of research. It has been a passion project that has turned into something that is in production now. And the results after speaking with customers is really, really strong. So it's been such a privilege to see that.

Checkbox is another one.

Exactly. Evan Wong, he's come through the Founder Institute program and Evan's a great pitcher. He is a wonderful pitcher. He won the StartCon pitch competition last year, which is the largest pitch competition in the region and he's gone on to the startup.

And he raised a few million.

He did, he did raise a bunch of money earlier this year and he's a great hustler. He's out there, he's got the connections with the customers.

And it's a B2B product that essentially helps you automate like complex document workflows.

Exactly, a lot of compliance and workflow.

Right. So if you're, for example, like a DMV and you need people to fill out 15 forms, he can put that all online in a few clicks and make it really easy.

Very intelligent.

Yeah, it's great. I mean, any like insurance company, any, anyone that has complex form processes, it's like very simple.

Very cool. Founder Institute grant.

Yeah, he's doing great. Yeah, no, I think there's— I see a lot of prospects across Australia. So, so So, maybe let's spend a few last moments just talking about FI and the opportunity there. So, like being a local, one of the things, and maybe I can talk here and you can comment. So, one of the things that I've tried to do, at least with being a leader, is make it so that you can do whatever you're doing now, right? So, if you're an investor or a CEO or you're running some sort of program, maybe it's a coworking space or something like that. You can also lead the Founder Institute chapter nights and weekends, right? So it should be about 8 hours a week and allow you to contribute to the ecosystem in a meaningful way without sacrificing your other activities. And let's start there. Has that been true with you?

Yeah, I think for me it's been wonderful for 3 reasons. I've been able to meet so many wonderful founders and to hopefully give back to them. I've had the opportunity to stay in touch and meet with many mentors, and both the founders and the mentors have become friends. And then I think the third thing has been part of the Founder Institute network. And as I said before, meeting with the Founder Institute directors in other parts of the world, plus the Founder Institute team here in Palo Alto in Silicon Valley has been wonderful. They've been a real support. And I think those three things have been wonderful, at least for me.

I love it, by the way, how the Mac takes your text, even if it's not on the phone, and still puts them up. That could be good. Sorry for the binging there. Yeah, the other thing, and I love your comment. Well, thank you for that. The other thing that I've been, I hope to accomplish is, and you know, this isn't it. You're not the best case of this because you are already a very successful ecosystem leader. But my dream is to help someone who's up and coming in the ecosystem because of the 3 things you mentioned, right? Spending time with founders, spending time with the top CEOs who are the mentors and then, you know, spending time with the global network to become really amazing top leaders within their cities. So, so like Jeffrey Payne starting, you know, really started with the Founder Institute and then launched Golden Gate Ventures and then Andy Zane in Jakarta. You know, has, I think he's on a $150 million third fund. It was like 50, 80, 150. And like, before FI, he was like a CEO kind of hanging. He was actually a mentor.

He was a mentor.

Yeah, I think, I think in—

very high scores.

Yeah. So like, I don't know, has it helped your career?

It's, to be honest, you know, it's been wonderful. It's allowed me the opportunity. Of course, it's great for deal flow. I get to see some deals before other investors, so that's been wonderful. But it's helped me stay in contact with a whole bunch of founders as well as mentors. And I think within the startup ecosystem in Australia, it's allowed me to have linkages to government, to have linkages to other organizations, as well as being able to advocate on behalf of founders and the startup ecosystem at large.

Yeah, you know, and one of the things I want to do at FIHQ is get some dedicated government support to the field so that we can come in a bit stronger. Because at this point, you know, in many cases, we focus just to take a step back about what we do. We, you know, and I'm super happy to hear it's been happening helpful for your career. And what we've seen is like people who take it seriously, their careers go, go up. And if a lot of times if they can keep their career aligned, yeah, right, then it's, it's ultra value, right? So Andy and Sergio in Canada and Sunil in Toronto and all these guys, these, these men and women have made leaps in their career. And I hope we've been helpful But we focus on that very early stage, what we call zero to one, because that's where there's a lot of need a lot of times.

Exactly.

Because to your point about you can't pitch or explain the business, you know, you can, it's much easier to fix that early on than later on. If you're coming into a company and they already have employees and a burn and customers and you're like, oh, this is, you can't explain your business.

A speedboat is much faster, isn't it, at changing direction than a cruise ship. And I think the wonderful thing about the Founder Institute, Ado, if I may, is that it focuses on the founder. So the business is important, but the founder is critical. And I think without the right ingredients in the founder, without the perseverance, without the ability to pitch, without the being able to take in different ways of thinking and to synthesise that and unpack and then repack and being able to share that with other people in a way that is coherent, then the chance of success, unfortunately, is reduced. And that's why at the Founder Institute, I am so excited still about the programme all these years after, is all these years later is because of that focus on the founder, right? We're trying to provide founders with building blocks, with foundational building blocks that great companies can be built from. And we love it. We love it when we see founders who are perhaps on to their second or third company because of the Founder Institute. It's extremely rewarding.

I'll tell you a funny story that, in fact, and Bitbull has a comment I want to get to. So, you know, I, uh, I want to host dinner with mentors and friends. In fact, many of the mentors have become my friends, sort of echoing. And like, that's great because I love founders and to just spend time with them and become friends with them. So, um, uh, I invited them all to a dinner and, uh, I wanted to host it and like, I didn't want to have to pay for everything, so I needed a service that could— and I found this service and it was amazing, like popup kitchen. And I was like, well, let me write the CEO. And I'm like, I want to host dinner at your thing. And he's like, I want to thank you. And I'm like, ah, for what? And he's like, I was a founder in the Founder Institute in 2010. And my business failed, right? And then I learned all these lessons and I started this company and it's going amazing. And I was like, okay, I wish we were Like it was a beautiful thing. Yeah. And so we ended up really helping this person build an amazing business. Of course, I'd always like to have— we talk about it sometimes. We'd like to own the equity in the future. You know, we'll come up with solutions to that.

That's right.

So Bipple was talking about one thing. So we'll wrap on, which is how are we doing on time? A couple of minutes left. So on the side of talent, he was mentioning, you know, in a Brisbane, you know, about the talent pool. And, you know, it's a good point, you know, how do you— I mean, FI kind of makes talent, right? We take people off the street and turn them into entrepreneurs, and it might take a cycle or two, but then they become mentors and others. So in many ways, like, I wouldn't worry so much if there's a ton of talent or not, because I think we make it. But what are your views on that? I mean, Brisbane has pretty good talent.

I think it's got great talent. And I think in Brisbane, if there are enough leaders there, I'm confident that we can support the team there with other contacts that we know in Brisbane to help build an even more thriving ecosystem there. There are some wonderful initiatives that have taken part in Brisbane, of course, the River City Labs, as well as the more recent Fishburners with their branch in Queen Street Mall in Brisbane. I think they've been wonderful, wonderful pillars of the community there, and I know that there have been some wonderful programs that have been run, but wouldn't it be great to have another program that helps bring people from that zero to one, as you say in diotico?

No one really does.

Give the skills and I think to help polish those gems.

Yeah, so no one really does 0 to 1. It's a— some universities do, some governments will fund 0 to 1 type things, but they're, you know, unfortunately they don't do them very well. They're not commercially oriented most of the time, so they're like Oh, learn how to go from 0 to 1. Oh, you don't want to take it seriously? High five. You know, so we, we take it seriously, right? And it is sausage making, right? So we're like taking someone who's pretty damn bad and we turn them into something that's pretty damn good in the course of about 3 and a half months. It's a bit of a labor of love.

Sometimes we like gourmet sausages. We like the organic free-range, grass-fed sausages. Yeah.

And they come out surprisingly well. I mean, you'd be blown away because sometimes I watch the before and after videos and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, these were terrible." And then, we've had billion-dollar businesses that came in the Founder Institute like Udemy. You could not understand the founder. When he first came in the program, he had a very thick Turkish accent and you It was gibberish. And then, you know, now he's on to— he hasn't sold U2Me, but he's left the company. The company's potentially going public from what I hear. And he's on his next company. And that's, you know, fast pacing to $1 billion, you know, and the guy started out, you know, barely able to speak English in a Founder Institute program here in Silicon Valley. So, dreams can be made real, and we're here to help. So, thank you so much. Thank you, Adair.

Thank you.

All right, so listen, everyone, fi.co/lead. We didn't say it very much, but we love leaders like you to join our program if you can, and hopefully open your city or participate in the operations of a city. Thank you all for the questions.

Thank you for the time.

I hope to help you launch a chapter in your neck of the woods.