How to Launch a Startup with NASA Technology, with Kimberly Hines (NASA Ames Chief of Tech Transfer)

Hello and welcome to the Founder Institute How to Launch a Startup NASA Technology online event. So if you're coming into the room, you're in the right spot. So we'll just give a couple minutes for people to join and then we'll get right into the agenda. So for people that are wondering why I'm sitting in a car, just to fill a bit of the time, if you're unfamiliar with kind of the innovation in the partnership that NASA has had with Corvette and General Motors and Chevrolet. That's kind of why I'm sitting in an old Corvette. So they used to give, starting in 1961 with the lunar landing, Corvettes to a lot of the astronauts, or they made like very lucrative and affordable lease programs at a dollar. But you can kind of even see it if you've been following, um, the Corvette C8 on the new launch of what they call the mid-engine. So instead of the engine in the front, it's in the mid component of the car, actually kind of right behind the driver's seat. A lot of the influence of the cockpit, a lot of the influence of the design, a lot of, um, just the overall details of the car really were influenced by, um, the, the history that NASA has had with Corvette. And so that's part of the reason we're broadcasting. So hopefully my internet cooperates, but I think we should be okay. So yeah, we're just kind of again waiting for people to come in the room and then we'll, we'll get started immediately. So we'd like to thank everyone for attending. This is the Founder Institute session with the Ames Research Center, also known as NASA Ames. So we'll introduce the speakers, a bit of the agenda. We'll then hear a partnering presentation from NASA Ames as to how to work with their office and kind of some of the services that they do, and then we'll have time for a Q&A with the audience. And then some of you are on lunch break, especially if you're on kind of Mountain Time, so we'll try and keep this to an hour. So I'm Jordan Jokis, Director of Founder Institute. So Founder Institute is the world's most proven network to turn ideas into fundable startups and startups into global businesses. So since 2009, our structured accelerator programs have helped over 6,000 entrepreneurs, raised over $1.7 billion in funding, based in Silicon Valley with chapters across 95 countries. Our mission is to empower communities of talented and motivated people to build impactful technology companies worldwide. And the NASA Ames, our major research center based at Moffett Federal Airfield in California, Silicon Valley, founded in 1939 as the Second National Advisory Committee of Aeronautics Laboratory. So we invite people to partner with NASA Ames Research Center to maintain American industry as a world leader in technology development, maturation, and utilization. So working collaboratively alongside some of the really the brightest minds in the world, Ames Research Center, you'll be able to literally access and implement NASA technology. So that's pretty cool. So you can think of like Casper mattresses as an example wouldn't be possible without some of the research, polarized lenses. A lot of technologies that are used in automobiles like what I'm sitting in. And so really cool. And you can put those into your product line to further develop specific technologies to create new products. So by forming an alliance to leverage resources and expertise, both NASA and your organization can collaborate on some of the coolest, most intelligent, high-performance, reliable technologies proven and tested in space. Not a lot of people can say that. So based on AEM's workforce skills and physical assets, the center's core competencies are enhanced by broad range of collaborations along with other government organizations, industry, and academia. So it's a pretty cool seal of approval. So today our mentors are the Technology Transfer Office Chief Kimberly Hines, Technology Portfolio Manager for the Technology Transfer Office Jay Singh, and the Program Specialist Technology Transfer Kimberly Manafa couldn't join us today. She had something unexpected come up at the last minute. Last minute, unfortunately, but our thoughts and prayers are with her. And at this time, I'm going to hand it right over to the team at NASA Ames to kind of talk about what they do. But big round of applause before we get into it.

Woo!

Woo!

Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate that wonderful introduction for NASA. Jay is going to pull up the slides for us, and we'll both trade off on presenting this so you don't hear just from one voice. But we're talking about how to leverage NASA technologies for your purposes. Next slide. You guys have heard of NASA, but I wanted to illustrate for you that NASA is across this country. We have 10 different locations, and so you'll hear about launches from Kennedy Space Center, and a lot of the manned space operations come out of Johnson Space Center, but we also have research centers, and NASA is one of the primary research centers. So we actually do— of the 15 different technology domains that NASA holds patents in, at Ames, we have technologies in 14 of the 15 domains. So you might go to one center that does primarily engines and propulsion, but NASA is known for— Ames is known for its IT, its supercomputing, computing. It's air traffic control and aviation research. We also have science research, both Earth sciences and space sciences and life sciences, the non-human life sciences. So it's a really rich, wonderful collaborative center right here in Silicon Valley. Next slide, please. So what does a technology transfer program do? Well, we ensure that the innovations developed for exploration and discovery are broadly available to the public. So we actually start with collecting information on technologies that are developed, vet them for commercial potential. Some research we funnel directly towards publication because that's the most expedient way to get it in the hands of the nation. And again, when I'm saying the nation, I'm talking about the US. If you have a company outside of the US, the best way to do business with NASA is to be incorporated within the United States. Priority is absolutely given to those companies that have a US presence and intend to develop and manufacture and sell within the United States. Technologies are available outside, but it's also— there's a more significant review process for that. And why would you want to take a license for NASA technologies or to use NASA technologies? One of the beauties of taking a patent, whether it's from NASA or anywhere else in the federal government, is that you can leverage what's already been developed. And TRLs vary from low technology readiness level. You have a really good concept. This is really pushing into an advancing state of the art to something that's really tried and true. It's already been demonstrated. And if you have your own business use case, your own technology you're developing, it could be that you don't have to design absolutely everything, especially with things that might be more complex. Being able to fill the technology gaps, it's always worth checking out patent searches and looking at potential solutions that you can leverage and literally not have to start from scratch. I'm going to turn over now to Jay to hopefully entice you on some of the other technologies. Jay, take it away.

Thanks, Kim. So here are some very cool things that have come out of NASA. The first one is the anti-icing formula to prevent train delays. So that was used for de-icing on various NASA missions, and now it's used on railways, or you'll see it on airplanes and things like that to prevent any icing delays on structures. And the one on the right, the mineral analyzer, is also a very interesting one where that was created for the Mars Curiosity Rover. And what it does is it takes a sample of soil in situ. So in the situation, takes it, brings it into a chamber, uses X-ray diffraction to see what the mineral is, and then it gives you a readout of what the content is. So that's really good if you want to do any geological exploration because you don't have to take the sample and then bring it back to the lab. You can just do it then and there. In, in the environment that you're in. So now I'm going to just go over how to find technology and then how you can license it. So our main website is the technology.nasa.gov website. So there's two ways you can do that. You click on the patent portfolio, which is highlighted, or you can use a keyword search. And so if you go to the patent portfolio, you'll see all of our 15 different categories. And so you can look at it through like agency-wide to all 10 different centers. Or just through NASA Ames or through Johnson Space Flight Center, whatever it might be. And again, our center has 14 of 15 technologies, and other centers may have different technologies that you're interested in for whatever your product is or wherever you're trying to commercialize. So let's just kind of walk through the instrumentation category. So once you click on the instrumentation category, you'll be brought up to the patent portfolio. And you'll see highlights of what the technology is, kind of just a quick overview of it, the name of the technology. So let's just click on the real-time radiation monitoring using nanotechnology. So once you click on that, you'll be greeted with this more detailed page. So an overview of the technology, why it was kind of created, the benefits and the application. If you have any questions, you click on the question link and it'll go to our a licensed concierge who will direct you to the right people to answer your questions. And you can also download a PDF fact sheet so you can send it to people offline. And the fact sheet is just everything that's in the, um, on the web page. And so you have the benefits, the applications, and then the patent numbers and things like that. The one very important thing is to look at the patent for whatever technology that you want to use. So Once you click on the patent, you just make sure it's the right patent number and the patent will give you the abstract of what's claimed in the description. And it's very important to review the patent description and claims because that's what you'll be practicing is the art of the patent. And so after that, you know, you go, okay, we want to license this technology. You either click to apply for the license or you can go to How to License, which is under the Resources Guide, and in the How to License area, it'll give you the different licensing types, what kind of the processes, things like that. And if you click to apply a license, you'll be directed to our Atlas page, which will allow you to go through the process of submitting a licensing application. And again, as Kim had mentioned, your company must be legally formed and be incorporated in the US to apply for a license. And so after you click on the, uh, apply for a license, you'll be greeted by our ATLAS page, which is our automated technology licensing application system. Um, there's gonna be a new one coming out on October 1st, uh, but this is kind of the portal that you'll need to go through to apply for a license. And, uh, Kim will talk about the licensing agreement types.

Thank you, Jay. This slide basically gives you the overview of what types of licenses NASA will engage with. So an evaluation license, if you just want to kick the can and figure out, is this the right technology for my company and is this something I can use, I would point you towards an evaluation license. This allows you to prototype and really figure out if this is the best fit for your commercial opportunity. Again, any use of a NASA technology and the patent requires a license. And so an evaluation license is for a limited period of time, typically 1 year. Some people will take it for 6 months. Some a little bit longer depending on the complexity, but that's kind of the sweet spot for what can I do with this technology. Now, startup company, a startup company may be eligible for a startup license. The expectation though is still that as a startup you have a really strong point of view, you have a technology development plan. You know who your customer audience is going to be. You have a clear marketing plan. And if you're ready to hit the ground running and this technology is going to— you're confident this is going to meet your needs, then a startup is a low bar, frequently no cost. But depending on the demand of the technology, there may be some upfront fees. A commercial license is Again, requires that it might be a more mature company, or you're not just strictly in your startup phase. But with the commercial license, working with the government is not difficult, but there are upfront fees associated with it and running royalties typically for the use of the patent. There are at times exclusive commercial licenses available. And that's when it's really clear that this technology is going to be owned and used by one company that is going to use it in a deep and broad way and make, make a high impact for that use case. Next slide. So, oh, NASA also— I want to mention that we have a software catalog, and because so much of what NASA does is in the IT realm, many of the software products that we have don't necessarily get licensed, but they're still of high value, and they are available literally for no cost whatsoever. So I just wanted to make mention that this is a great way to not have to reinvent the wheel. And I would recommend that you go to the software catalog and look at what products might be available and code that's already been developed that can be adapted for your own purposes. One is circle— I just wanted to circle back on the patents. In terms of using the patents, it's really the responsibility of the company to have their clear, strong point of view for what they want to develop and what they want to market. And so in part, you know, this, this is a license from NASA. In some instances, there is PI support in the event it's a complex technology. It is possible that you can take a reimbursable Space Act Agreement and pay for that inventor's time, that subject matter expert's time to help you learn and share know-how. There's always that if we have the inventor still working for NASA, there's always that opportunity for Q&A. And we certainly do our best and our PIs are certainly generous with their time, but it's not NASA's responsibility to develop the commercial products. We've done the technology development. The onus is on the company to actually take it that final mile to the commercial success. But if there are things that need to be adapted for a special use case, again, we are able to put you in touch with the innovator, and there are frequently ways to partner with the— a reimbursable Space Act Agreement. Okay, thank you, Jay, for going back there. If we can advance the slides. And next slide. So these are many of the resources available. Feel free to take a quick screenshot and explore if you want to understand many of the— the Success stories spin-off publications are beautiful. So example, Jordan talking about the car industry and Corvettes and, and layout. The success stories are published every single year, so you can find out how other companies have benefited and brought products to market leveraging NASA technology. So These are just some fun links and make it easy to explore. Many of the questions that come in via our concierge for companies that are looking at specific technologies, they route back to Jay and to myself, and we were kind of behind the scenes, behind the curtain, providing as much support as we can. to make companies successful. So with that, we can open it up for questions.

Yeah. So let's take some, uh, questions from, uh, the audience. I mean, maybe just to start, I mean, you kind of went over it a little bit, but, um, outside the TypeScript, um, you know, what do you look for in an applicant? Uh, what makes a successful applicant?

You know what? Thank you. That's an excellent question, Jordan. Um, It's, it's really easy to get excited and come to the table and say, I want to do something with this technology. I want to work with NASA. But you have to do your homework first. You have to have a clear point of view of what you might want to do and, and what your product is. And, and take the time to have already not only looked at the top sheet and information available on the NASA Technology Portal, but, but look at the patent, understand what it is that you might be looking for. And with that, again, for an ex— for an evaluation license, if you're just in the ideation phase, you could easily take 2 or 3 different evaluation licenses. Don't come in and ask for a dozen because in reality you're not going to have the time to actively vet 12 different technologies at one time. So come in and be intentional and selective with what you're asking for. The, you know, again, there's search tools online and that helps you kind of weed out and focus on things that might be a benefit for your application. If you believe you're past the evaluation stage, you know, you've got a clear point of view with what you're developing, then make sure when you fill out the application you provide sufficient information. One-line answers on what your tech development plan isn't going to get you through the gate. So, you know, be— you can be concise but still be thorough. And when asked for more information, make sure that you are a credible company. And because that's what's going to, you know, the more complete your application is, the easier it will be for us to process, review, and get the legal feedback on.

Yeah, maybe just building off that question, seeing a lot of applicants that say are independent US-based companies. In terms of, let's say, researchers at other higher educational institutions that want to be able to leverage the technology for commercialization purposes, you know, what does it look like working with higher ed?

The approach there would be with an evaluation license, so we could do that for a longer period of time. It would totally make sense for, you know, it could be new technology development, could be physics research, it could be an engineering institute that's advancing state of the art in a particular domain. And if it's with a research institute, we can definitely find a way to create an evaluation license or a way to partner so you can actually practice the art of the patent. So thank you for that question. It's, you know, we'll do everything we can to make sure all of those pieces line up for academic purposes.

Very cool. So, yeah, we have a question from Esteban. So how well can a US company work with NASA with founders residing abroad? So we kind of see this sometimes where you know, maybe they haven't incorporated as a Delaware C-Corp or a US-based company somewhere. You know, the team's overseas. They plan on coming to the States. So, you know, how can that relationship typically look?

It is a challenge. Certainly apply. But the— if you're— if you are incorporated in the US and have a clear point— again, it's having a clear point of view. Do you have a business plan where you were going to do the research and you are going to do manufacturing in the US? If that is your plan, then it will be easier for us to discuss what the specific use case is and advocate for that license because it's more than just the local office making that decision. When international partners are involved, it does go through to international trade reps for evaluation. And that when I say that is if your parent company— we back up— if you have a parent company outside of the US, that's going to take additional review and evaluation. So it will— you'll still have to provide all of the background information for any of those other International Holdings if it's— if that's the parent company.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's an economic development play in a lot of ways too, right? Okay, so we have a question from Mark. Are there opportunities for development support for battery and solar thin film? So this is kind of a vertical-specific question. But of the 15 areas, do you know specifically?

There are some items related to batteries and thin thin films, and we can certainly— again, that's— I don't have it at my fingertips, but we can go search that portfolio. So you can always send us the question directly and we'll make sure we, we point you in the right direction on the technologies.

Very cool. So, yeah, another question, kind of almost like an open source question. Are we able to make technology broadly available to the public with the help of NASA? So maybe, I don't know if we— an easier example, this could be like from a software perspective, let's say.

We do have open source. There is significant open source software available online. And so that's available. You know, you go in, you enter, and you can download the open source. There are links directly to make that.

Yeah, and that's the code.nasa.gov, probably, link, right?

Yes. Yeah.

So, um, Eli, if you can post that in the chat, um, people can see a link to that as well. Uh, okay, so I'll pull another one. Um, um, yeah, I guess other, uh, volunteer remote opportunities. With NASA technology? So, um, you know, the way that people can get involved without necessarily working for NASA, let's say.

So in terms of other ways besides, um, licensing directly, there are many opportunities, uh, solicitations that come out, um, ROSES and INSPIRES. If you're doing research or technology development, um, you can apply read the solicitations and pitch your ideas for proposals for NASA funding. That's a way to work with NASA. SBIR and STTR, that's Small Business Innovation Research, a beautiful way if you've got a new company and you're not sure, you know, you're looking to work with NASA. A solicitation is run every single year and you can apply Proposed for, again, a Phase 1, which kind of is a conceptual demonstrate that your idea might work for a NASA purpose. And then it goes through a Phase 2 review, which is a 2-year period of performance where you can actually build out and test your technology ideas, and they will be available to meet NASA needs. One of the beauties of SBIR is that if you have developed a technology with the SBIR program, your technology can be adopted or procured without going through competitive procurement. So because you will have already gone through full and open competition twice if you've been through the SBIR program. And so that will— and that— sorry, I haven't talked about SBIR program in a long time, but that applies across the government. So if you've developed a product for DOD and NASA sees it, we can go directly to that company and buy that product. If you've developed it under a NASA solicitation and DOE or DOD could use that technology and buy your product. Again, it doesn't have to go through competitive procurement but can come directly to your company. So it's an advantage for small companies.

Very cool. So we have a question from Vameek. I think my understanding is that it's a reverse question. So you come up with a lot of these technologies, you secure the patent, you make them available. And people can license them. From the reverse, so can people leverage their technology for NASA purposes?

Well, if it's— if your technology can be used in support of that NASA solicitation, then yes, it would be part of that technology solution. You'll still own your own IP. You'll still be developing it. In a shared collaborative way based on those NASA funds. And again, I would read the SBIR solicitation. I just caught a question regarding the being a US citizen. That's a requirement that to my knowledge can't be bypassed, that you, you must be US owned. But in terms of— most companies that are SBIR companies own their own technology. So—

Okay, we're going to get in the weeds a little bit. So a question from Antonio. If we're awarded a license, we will have access to the full schematic of the technology or the full explanation plus demonstration of the proof of concept? So what kind of support are license holders given?

It depends. It depends on what is available. Remember that what you're licensing is the right to practice the art of the patent, and that patent is written out and available online. In some instances, a technology may have schematics. In others, it won't. So there's not a guarantee. We can always ask. But typically, the use cases are going to be different for a commercial application than whatever the original space application was. Let me give you an example. We have like a synthetic language, kind of a data crawl that was It's called MADA, but it's a software tool that was patented, and there's significant detail written up in the patent. The use case NASA had was specifically with Earth science data, but we have multiple licensees who were taking that technology that that, um, architecture that was published in the patent and applying it to, to different domains. So again, having the code specific— and we didn't— and code was not released, so it was demonstrated under earth sciences, but other companies are taking it for other applications. And their software developers look at the patent, they're like, oh, okay, there's enough information here, I developed my own code for my own purpose. And so again, if it's a— it's an it depends. If it's a mechanism, the details are typically already in the patent and you would be adapting it for your own purposes.

So, okay, perfect. In terms of advice that I got, it kind of relates to this question. I know a startup founder of ours that works with NASA on different things, and their original business model was like solely hinged upon collaborating successfully with NASA. And I think it was too much of a risk, and then they realized that they needed to prove themselves first. So they went out to market and they onboarded customers and they started building relationships that way. And then eventually that, that proof of concept and proof of customer and customer market fit, I guess, was what helped them secure eventually a contract with NASA. So on that, you know, how long does it take to process the licensing with NASA Ames?

Again, it depends. An evaluation license, we can probably turn around in 4 to 6 weeks. Again, and it kind of depends on what we have in our queue. We usually have, you know, 20 or so applications in the queue at any one time. If it's a commercial license, you know, we— it, depending on the complexity, it could take a few months. If it requires international review, we could be looking at a 6-month window. But typically within 1 to 2 months, the licenses can be put in place.

Yes, yes, positive. Okay, this is maybe an FAQ answer on the website, but if a company has already developed the technology outside SBIR, how would they still work with NASA?

I would look at FedBizOpps or beta.sam.gov. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the web links, but NASA routinely puts out requests for information, and if you have a technology that you believe has a specific application that NASA can use, the best way to approach NASA is through the more formal channels. Either an RFI or an RFP, meaning request for information or request for proposals. So if you've got, you know, the tech transfer office, our job is to make all of the patent information, the software information, queue it up and make it readily available so you can search it and access it. Our hope is that companies truly are successful with their commercial endeavors. But NASA doesn't do the technology development for you. NASA doesn't market it for you. But again, if you have a question, you're interested in evaluation license, if we have the PI available, you've done your homework, we'll ask you to say, send us the questions, and we'll queue up that meeting with the PI. So then you can say, this is our idea. Does this make sense? Does this seem like it's going to be the right fit? And it may be that you need to study it a little bit more for your application. So I know it seems— my answer seems so high and so general, and it's— I wish I could have a one-on-one with every single one of you to, to hear what your wonderful ideas are and what your interests are. But the, the place I'd start is with the NASA portfolio of patents. There are typically 1,000, 1,100 patents at any one time that we have active across the agency. And at NASA, specifically 100 to 120 at any one time. So there's— they are a limited, a limited life item, but you have a few decades to use them. And hopefully some of this piques your interest on on how you can access and leverage these investments that have already been seeded with taxpayer dollars.

Yeah, very cool. Maybe just on that, kind of a personal question, you know, what are some of the coolest use cases that you've seen of NASA patents and technology, like in the commercial world?

Gosh, you know, I still go back to memory foam. You know, it was, you know, used for cushioning for spaceflight, and it just took off and went into other products. Let's see, security. We've got other, like, security algorithms and video and The, um, we don't have— I will, I will mention, uh, more recent patents are for fluid lensing and for, um, looking at, uh, FluidCam, which would look at a camera that will look down through the water and remove the waves and distortion so you could actually see centimeter scale images under the water. And so this helps look at coral reefs. This is one of the newer technologies designed at NASA Ames. Ved Chariath was the inventor, and he has since moved on to the University of Miami. But I see future collaborations for people that might want to— looking at climate change and the health of our planet, that would be one, one technology that might pique someone's interest.

Is that like using millimeter wave technology?

It's actually a video process and removing, removing the distortion. So it's, it's artifacts. So you've got a camera that is The technology of the camera itself and the details, it is high-resolution imagery. And so it's like taking a bunch of, you know, your— any video is a bunch of individual images, but it's the algorithm that gets packaged with it to remove the distortion. So it's, you know, there may be other land use cases for that technology and imaging. Again, it's just one idea that's out there. In terms of other— again, I would— I didn't do my homework on my favorite products. I still go back to memory foam.

And yeah, I think everyone's got a memory foam now. Yeah, yeah, change the world.

Um, baby food is another one because, uh, that's, um, we literally have influenced baby food because of nutrition supplements for astronauts.

So yeah, that's really cool. Um, how do we get NASA to evaluate our patented SaaS solution?

I'm not quite understanding your question.

Yeah, I don't know if I can get a bit of clarity. I guess maybe, you know, so let's say they apply. I mean, eventually you're going to have to test out the software to make sure that it's something that— that— well, I know what you mean there. They're typically licensing your technology, right?

And I point you to— I'm seeing Rolf had a question. How would one approach NASA if one has a material to sell to NASA? Again, to sell to NASA, the— to get your proposed solution reviewed would be to apply to a solicitation. Inspires is one. Inspires and the Roses Call. If you want to develop technology solutions specifically for a NASA application, you're going to have to look for where NASA is asking for technology solutions and propose it there. I will say it's very difficult to cold call on NASA. You know, it's because it becomes other duties as assigned for people to look at and evaluate your technology. But if you, if you seriously believe that what your technology does will meet a NASA need, and if you apply, whether it's through, again, SBIR, and you've already have one solution that you can build on, or through any of the other NASA— it can be a request for information or an actual solicitation that would, you know, you would need to then apply for that and send the proposal in. And that's how your technology is going to get reviewed. Again, another way to propose it might be if you go to AGU or Space Photonics, going to some of those conferences. That's also— we have NASA researchers and technology developments participate fully in all of the different professional organizations. And so if you're presenting your work in those venues, it's likely to get noticed there as well. And so that would be, you know, for more exposure, if you will.

Yeah, no, I think that answers it. That helps a lot. So Bruce says, I have a mechanical patent in power transmission/motion control. Does NASA leverage outside technology from current patent holders? Um, so I mean, that's kind of relating to what we just talked about, but I guess, um, again, if it's, if it's going to be—

NASA is not likely to be exploring all of the patents and looking to take a license from somewhere else. The way NASA does business with the public is through procurement or solicitations. And so if it's procurement, they will advertise that NASA is looking for a particular technology solution for this mission or this project and request people to share what they might have available. And so then you would reply to that query. And it's again, it's going to be a request for information or a request for proposal.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a theme here where I mean, it's a great feather in your cap to be able to work with NASA, but I think it's a good example of like municipalities. It's like they have a specific project, they're doing a new road, they need someone to reply to the RFP to build a new road. They don't need to build an airport.

Yeah.

Okay. So yeah, no, that helps a lot. So I think, I mean, a lot of the questions are much of the same that we have left. I mean, we have one, for example, um, are there more resources for quantum technologies? So like, are you guys moving into quantum?

Um, we— there is quantum research that goes on. Uh, we do have a group at NASA Ames, and, um, I know that there's quite a bit in terms of algorithm development. We have the D-Wave at NASA Ames, and so exactly what their research activities are right now, I don't know, but I'm sure if you look up quantum computing at NASA Ames, or if you don't find the link, you could let me know if you have a more specific question.

Yeah, we'll find, you know, there's some questions about like the RFQ and RFI resources online, so we can find some of those in the, or you can We can search them up. Yeah. Another— well, we kind of touched on this a little bit, but Archie asks, is NASA technology geared more towards established companies or can startups apply?

Startups can definitely apply. Yeah, we actually run something called a T2U where entrepreneurial business classes can take a patented technology and then do a commercial assessment to go see what markets that technology might be used for. So, yes, again, NASA does such a wide range of technology development. Some are very complex, cutting-edge nanosensors, and it's going to take some significant work to get it off the ground for a particular use case to other software We do air traffic control tools. So for aviation and flight planning, we've got patents out there that then get used by— and technologies that are adopted by the airlines and FAA. Again, that's a very specialized— if you have a business, you know, where you're product-oriented, you're probably not going to take an aviation software tool. Again, it's— so it kind of depends on what your, what your need is and what your interests are and what you want to grow into. And it's not just about, you know, keep in mind that you may need to partner with other subject matter experts. So you may have a really strong business point of view, but you may need some heavy hitters in computer science or data science to use a software product. It may be that if you want to do a medical instrument, you're going to have to have some electrical engineers or chemists that can understand the technology to help you evaluate it and, and carry that forward. So you can have great ideas, but you may need to partner with other, other founders in other domains to make your use case successful.

Very cool. Yeah, thanks, Dennis, for putting the link in, because TTU stands for Tech Transfer University. Yes, we thought. Okay, perfect. So maybe we'll do some, some quick ones in the last couple of minutes that we have here. Well, some fun ones. I guess first of all, I mean, I'm sure a lot of people would love to have your job. You know, how did you get your job? How did you get into the industry? And then how do you kind of climb your way up?

Gosh, I, I was in my first round in graduate school at San Francisco State, and I took an internship in the training department. I was at the time, I was getting a degree, a master's in industrial organizational psychology, knew that I wanted to work in an R&D environment because I had done that for a couple of years in Arizona and wanted to be part of the business solution that kept the monkey off the back of the people that were really creative and, and had the insight for, for design. And so that was my first internship. First time I was asked, I interviewed for a permanent job. They said, can you guarantee you'll be here in 5 years? And I said, I don't know. And that was 30 years ago. So I didn't go away.

Very cool. Go Gators.

Yeah.

And then I guess maybe, you know, there's a lot of news about NASA right now with Artemis I and, you know, going back to the moon. You know, what's the energy like around NASA right now?

It's exciting. It really is. It's You know, it's like most of us have spent our, you know, the people who actually were around in the era of going to the moon first time are mostly retired and not part of the current technology development, but that the excitement is palpable. The fact that women are going to the moon is exciting and It's just to, you know, when things launch, we learn so much. And I had the privilege of working life sciences engineering for many years with research and payloads that went on the shuttle and with Mir. And that was exciting. And when we were doing our international, you know, just being part of those international collaborations. Space is one of those areas that everybody can come together on and find the value added and really understand that, that going into space is not just for the sake of shooting off a rocket, but that research comes back and helps us here on the ground. So one of the studies years ago was for— with a commercial company looking at drugs for osteoporosis. Because microgravity can mimic the effects of aging on bones. So again, it's just NASA's research opportunities are rich and wonderful, and Artemis is going to just help us take, take us into that next generation of what's possible for in situ utilization. What they're going to do is not just go collect samples, but have a presence for just learning more and doing more and practicing operations on the surface of the moon. That's going to be really exciting.

To the moon! I love it. Now, my dad had the opportunity to golf with Neil Armstrong for the day. And I remember a mentor of mine was one of the first ministers of science and technology here in Canada, Dr. William Weingarten. So he was there for the launch with Roberta Bondar, the female astronaut. So yeah, a lot of excitement, and I know everyone's really looking forward to it. On that, you know, is there any speculations of kind of what they may find up there? Like, I know people that think that the Moon is just a big thing of gold covered in dust, so I don't know. Is there anything that you hypothesize that we may find?

No, I'm not making bets on any of it. It's gonna— it's— I think it's always going to be full of surprises, and the more we can study, the more we're going to learn. You know, just the fact that, of course, we know that there's— it will be interesting to see how we can actually harvest and make use of of what we see to be rocks and sand and access water. Just learning more about the minerals and resources there will help us, you know, decide what to and how to process, you know. And by going back to the moon, then that's going to be that next stage of deeper space exploration.

Yeah, so gold investors are worried that maybe the price of gold will go up or down depending on if it's just a big gold nugget.

No, I'm not going to make— I'm not going to make changes in my investments based on—

just kidding. Okay, a final thought before we leave. You know, is there anything that you want to promote? Anything cool you're working on? Anything that we should be knowing that we don't already know?

Gosh, excellent question. At the top, off the top of my head, I don't have a Are you guys accepting job applicants other than just patents? Right. You know, there's always some— there's always internship opportunities, and especially for students during the summer, there are always internship opportunities and jobs pop up here and there. Remember that it's not just NASA, but every NASA center has many contractors and contract opportunities. I myself was a contractor the first 10 years of my career. So when I was doing the, you know, I came in through one internship and then ended up working in astronaut crew training and with a project management and a mechanical engineering group and leading designs of spaceflight hardware. All of those activities I did, I was a contractor for NASA, so not working directly. I was then— the civil servant opportunities are fewer, but there is also something called Pathways. So Pathways, especially for students in science and technologies and engineering domains, you might be working on a PhD somewhere and you take a Pathways job and you can finish your research at NASA and That's definitely an excellent entry point to NASA. Eugene Tu is our director, and he started with NASA as a student years ago and was able to get his PhD. And, you know, his whole career has been spent at NASA Ames, and he's a beautiful example of of coming to NASA early. Some people come later in their careers depending on when subject matter expertise is needed. And so it's— it is a wonderful place to work, and it's exciting to celebrate the work of our innovators and to support them through tech transfer. So there's many paths. The NASA website, I again, nasa.gov, looking for job opportunities, looking for internships. Those are excellent ways to connect with NASA.

Very cool. Well, thanks for sharing that and also sharing the fact that, you know, you're not an overnight success where you just got the job right away. You had to work your way into it and kind of build your trust in. So I think that's good advice. For everyone. So again, thank you for your time. Huge round of applause. Appreciate it. So again, a lot of links are here. You guys will get access to the video for this afterwards if you registered through the portal. In terms of Founder Institute, for anyone interested in helping launch their own startup or their business idea, you can apply online, fi.co. We have constant cohorts around the world at any given time. You can also check out our events. Um, so fi.co/events where you can attend more things like this. Um, yeah, and just really excited. Um, so yeah, we'll wait, uh, fingers crossed for a successful launch with Artemis 1. And, uh, yeah, I really appreciate your time. And for everyone, um, keep looking up because, um, it's a brave new world and it's really exciting. I, I was just finishing, um, The Three-Body Problem, um, sci-fi books. So if you guys have ever read them, they're fascinating. But, um, yeah, just, uh, I think space is making a big comeback, and I think, uh, it's a great time to be alive.

It is, it is. Thank you so much for inviting me, Jordan, and, uh, um, I look forward to our next event.

Absolutely. Okay, thanks everyone. I'll see you guys, uh, yeah, we kept it to an hour, so, uh, enjoy the rest of the day.

Take care, you guys.