Moonshots and Design - An Interview with Milan's Startup Experts

Welcome back to the Founder Institute podcast. My name is Rachel Shephard. I'm the Global Marketing Manager here at Founder Institute. Joining us today at our Founder Institute headquarters office in Palo Alto, California, we have Maria Matlub, Service Designer for GAAP, and Peter Lazu, Venture Builder and Advisor.

Welcome.

Thank you very much. Lovely to be here.

Yeah, awesome. So In addition to their wonderful work in the startup ecosystems that they participate in, and various ones all over the world, both Maria and Peter are local leaders for our Founder Institute Milan chapter. So we're very excited to have them in our office today. We kind of just wanted to chat a little bit about your guys' backgrounds, what you work on, and just startups in general, startup ecosystems. So you guys both work together on the Other Dots Foundation. Share with me a little bit about that cause and its journey.

So the, the The Avadots Foundation really is a global initiative providing financial freedom or financial inclusion and freedom to 2 billion unbanked around the world. It's the first ever social impact fund on the blockchain. The goal is really threefold. One, to build, to moonshot and build 5 disruptive startups, to generate great returns for investors who invest in our fund. And the third one, which is key, is really improving the lives of billions of people around the world. And that's what the initiative is all about.

It's basically a program, a studio, and a fund. And it's the core thing around it is it's all based around human-centered design. So we want to understand what people need, and this is how we're gonna make this impact, right, over time.

That's wonderful. And you have a deep background in design and specifically user experience. And so how has that sort of played into what you guys are building at Otherdots?

So what we wanted to do initially was to merge different mindsets, so corporates and startups, but this became, quickly became a buzzword if you want, and what we wanted to do around it was specifically in one region and try to get those startups and corporates to work together, but most importantly get the ecosystem around to understand that there's not one way of doing things like go find this job, but Some people can do much more. And it's give this opportunity and create this understanding around it to push people, to push forward those individuals who can make a difference in the world. And this is how it really started. In terms of design, it's something, it's a buzzword today when you say design thinking, user experience design, whatever. But in actual fact, it's really needed because we don't go build stuff if we don't understand who's gonna use those things, why, how, and and on the long term, the value it's gonna add. And this is how everything came together when I met Peter a few years ago. We started discussing and—

Yeah, 'cause one of the, you know, I've been venture building, investing for 25 years. So one of the things for me that I've always seen has become very apparent is we have all these accelerators and incubators around the world. We have a lot of competition, startup competitions. And it's great for us all in the developed world. And it's great that we have these, all these events and places to go where people get funded, people win competitions. My pain point has always been what happens to them who don't? They sort of like just disappear. And, you know, some people win competitions because there's a connection with maybe one of the judges or whatever it may be in the sense of, you know, they like what they're doing. But there may be someone else who didn't win, but they're just as great. And we sort of lose that focus. And the other more important thing for me is that in the emerging world, the only time we see um, if we like, um, you know, inspirational stories is from the news or from World Economic Forum. So for me, it was a case of, well, how can we go around the world and find these amazing people who don't have that opportunity to have social media, don't have an opportunity to, to go to a competition? Um, how can we bring them to the forefront? How can we find all these other amazing entrepreneurs, uh, who haven't won anything or haven't got funded and build something from scratch together. And that's really, really where over the last year and a half we've been working on a really cool initiative to try and solve that problem. So, you know, it's very exciting. It's the first time something like this has ever been done. So there's going to be ups and downs in doing it, but that's the essence of it. Yeah.

I want to add, like, this got cemented in a way. I met a couple of years ago, I met an Egyptian guy in Milan So I'm gonna give you the story really briefly. He was born in Egypt, raised in Egypt. At 6 years old, instead of going to school, he started working. So he was climbing on palm trees to create those baskets to sell them, and some other jobs. And at some point, he started fishing in the Mediterranean. And at some point, they just stopped in Italy, and they said, that's it, we're not going back to Egypt. So he was 14. He had— well, he had no choice, right? He was there. So obviously at this age they didn't ship him back. He went to an Italian family, stayed in Sicily. Then at 18 he decided he wanted to work, whatever. He made his way up, so from Sicily to Bologna, then to Milan. He also worked for Egyptian people where he was not paid for 2 years, working 24/7, up until he got really sick. But When I met this guy in a pizza place, he was a waiter. He's really wise. When you talk to him, you feel that he can do something. But what he knows is that he needs to find a job and that's it. He doesn't know that he can do more. We started talking and you feel that some people, these are the people we want to reach out to and try to get them involved, mixing them with people from developed countries. Many developed countries might say nothing today, but it's where people have more opportunities. Putting those together and great things can happen.

Absolutely. And you guys touched a little bit on blockchain too, as well. We've seen a lot of that with our startups around the world, specifically in the countries we operate in that are a bit more remote and financial inclusion is not a given, right? They're still building the technologies around that. And blockchain really plays a large role in that. And so is that something you guys see, you know, as really the foundation of what you guys are building and also sort of how do you see blockchain, you know, sort of growing within startup ecosystems worldwide?

You know, the blockchain for me is again, one of the reasons for doing it is not only for the transparency as well, but what we want to do is create an environment where even from an investment perspective from the fund, when you're investing today, when you, you know, investors invest, they actually take, it takes forever to invest in one startup, never mind about doing 5 or whatever. The whole process. And then once you've invested, you really are invested for 5 to 7 years until you can exit, if you exit. What we do with the blockchain is we provide the investors an asset base. So we've got a security token. Initially it's just a security token where you just invest in the startup using this token, but you can sell that token on the open market whenever you feel right. So you're not, you're not stopped in anything. You, you can just come out of it at any point in time. And, uh, also with regards to the blockchain, for us it opens many opportunities in different sectors, different verticals. Our verticals that we're focusing on is fintech, but we prefer to call it financial inclusion and freedom, but also AI. And our focus on AI is security, personal security, as well as education. Um, and we've been very fortunate to, to have some really amazing geniuses on the AI side, for example, where we can link all of this to together that again, ultimately loops into the whole blockchain environment. So we're very excited by that, you know, the opportunity it brings.

The good thing as well about the blockchain for us from another perspective is that the investors are investing 1 in 5 startups. Usually they spend so much time to find 1. In this case, it's 5. The other thing is that they can sell their tokens at any point in time on the open market. So if they want cash back, They just get it whenever they want.

Right. It's more liquid that way. That's awesome. And you mentioned too, AI for a bit, and I know we've, um, you've sort of talked a lot about AI in design and how does that play into what you feel like is the future of user experience and overall design for startups?

So, um, so what we're doing now, we're going to build a few startups focusing on fintech and some others on AI. But the way it's all going to come together is the beginning. So I'll take a step back. So we have a 10-day program where we will go through all the process of human-centered design, the approach, the understanding, and this can be applied in different ways. So it's just the way of thinking behind it plus the tools. And this is what we want to incorporate in the mindset of participants. When it comes to AI, It's since we're talking about security and education, uh, we're gonna go deep into understanding what are the needs of humans in the sector of, or the industry of education, security, understanding meanings, going there, observing, trying, speaking to people, and then testing over time. We're gonna have this quick iteration, a bit like the sprints you do here, you know, like talk, talk, talk. And then this is how we're gonna be building the product. I don't know if this answers your question.

It does, it does, because it's interesting how there's this, you know, AI is such a good technology, but it does require the human component, right? And that research at the human level and making sure that the machine itself is constantly being fed new data points so that it doesn't become biased or, you know, single-viewed or something like that within the AI technology.

So, so, so, So we will be teaching the— so AI comes from people, so we have to teach AI. It's like a little kid. So this is where the way we're going to do it. So it's going to take time, obviously, but we can have a strong foundation at the beginning if we do it the right way.

And one of, one of the— just, just to reiterate now, one of the, um, the issues today with AI is that it's all driven by, um, if you like, um, programmers. So, um, a lot of the big corporates here who are focusing on AI they don't have a real deep understanding of human emotion. They don't have an understanding of, as we talked about, the security, for example, or, or education. They literally— it's all about coding, and AI is not about coding. It's about understanding the, the human learning process. So you have to— just like Maria just said, it's like you're teaching a little kid, you know, how to read and write. So if you think about all the different subjects you had at school, you You've got to do the same for AI. Nothing, nothing changes. The rules are the same. But if you can teach that process within the AI infrastructure, then it becomes more intelligent. So which is why there's all this thing right now about will AI overtake people, humans, and create, you know, take our jobs away? For me, the answer is no. It's not. That's not what AI is. It's not about creating robots.

So it's about looking in a different way at it, changing the perspective. And this is how we can— AI can help and support.

And one good example, just to finish off on this subject, is when you think about a child studying, think about the focus on the non-focus. So how do we know whether someone is really focusing on a topic? You know, if they're not focusing, why are they not focusing? Is it because they don't understand what's there in front of them? Is it because they're distracted by something that's happening behind the scenes that we don't know about? Is it Are they, are they not well? What is it that it is? And you can teach AI to understand that. So they— so AI can actually understand, well, this person is focusing, so we don't need to worry about them, but this person is not focusing, and these are all the reasons why they're not focusing. So now we can then drill down and use that intelligence to really help them. So, you know, we find the patterns.

Yes, yes, right. So we're, we're lucky to have some good and genius advocates with us because alone we can't do it. Single-handedly. We're 4 in the foundation, but we have a good network of geniuses like our AI. Min Lee is a genius in AI, so he's going to be supporting this part.

That's wonderful. That sounds awesome.

That's a long-winded answer for you.

That's wonderful. No, we definitely want you guys to be the majority of the discussion here for sure. So one other thing I wanted to ask you is that you're known for working with moonshot startups. Can you define what moonshot startups are for everyone, and then tell us what's the right amount of sort of crazy idea that a founder, that you look for with a founder.

Yeah, one of my pain points is, again, I've lived on 4 different continents, so I've seen a lot of different things over my years, but one of the things that I've also come across in the startup world is everyone sort of like has an idea, takes an idea, and then maybe puts a bit of paint on it to make it look different, and then suddenly everyone's an entrepreneur, a startup, and we continue. For me, the reason why I use moonshots is because— I use the word moonshots because it's all about the impossible for me. So think the impossible and how we can bring people together to make that a possibility. So everything that I've tried to do in my ventures is if people say to me, you know, that's a waste of time or that can't be done, I'll fight that and argue that it can be done. You just need to find the right people to make it happen. And one of the things within OtherDots, if I bring it back to that, is this is what we want. We want people to think the impossible but make it possible, because it is. Because it's only impossible to you, but not impossible to a collective of people. So, um, the people we're gonna—

sorry to interrupt— handpick are people who would die to do what they like, what they want to do with OtherDots.

Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it.

They're all in.

That's it. Yeah, absolutely. And these are the people we're going to find from emerging countries um, as you said, from a few from the developed country, we bring them together. But they have to have this— they have to be ambitious, they have to have this passion, this desire that this is it, you know, and I will, I will die for what I'm doing here. Um, and so anything that I've done in the past has always been— and, you know, I've been, I guess, successful in some of the ventures that I've, I've built and exited out of, um, where they really have been moonshot ideas back in the time um, but they've really, um, been pioneer, uh, pioneer things that, that have happened. So, um, I'm not someone who just builds a startup, wants to build a startup for the sake of it. I think that's an absolute waste of time. So anything that, that we do, even with other dots, has to really be meaningful. Um, so I'll give you an example. So, um, if you were to go to the remote areas of Latin America, um, Coca-Cola is everywhere, right? So And you have corner shops who sell Coca-Cola. The biggest problem with Coca-Cola is that they lose money big time because it's all cash, all right? And cash goes missing. So for me, it's about how do you now take that opportunity and spin it in such a way— and it's not just about creating a credit card facility or a mobile phone, it's about really understanding what the pain point is, all right? And how we can connect that corner shop to the rest of the world, but also to Coca-Cola too. If we can reduce 3 to 4% of Coca-Cola's cash issue, then you can do it. So that for me is about trying to figure out, and you're talking about dangerous areas here.

And so do you feel that when you work with people who have just this strong sense of mission and value in what they're doing, that that drive just becomes so much greater when they're really trying to solve something that's world-changing, right?

Yeah, I think it does. I think it also needs, I mean, You know, for me, I know I'm a really passionate, emotional guy when I talk. And I'm not saying emotional as in a tearful guy, far from it, but I'm very emotional and I get very emotional in what I do and I get very passionate. So even when I'm mentoring or I'm advising or I'm asked to talk, I talk with such impassion and enthusiasm that I hopefully that can instill in others that that's what you need to be successful. You really do. You really need that thing and you really need to believe in it no matter how many obstacles you have, no matter how many times someone says to you, you're wasting your time don't do. And I'll give you a really good example, um, and this will go back to the '90s where, um, I had this venture that I was building from scratch, um, and the, the, the momentum was, Pete, just focus on automotive and stop worrying about anything else, keep focusing, focusing. But I knew that this massive security company had a crazy— had a massive issue with money, uh, with hijacks, money going missing. It was costing them absolutely millions of people's lives. And I was— I knew that what I had could solve that problem. And I was saying to Securoco, it took me 7 months to convince them. And I said to him, you need me, believe me, you need me. And why do you need me, young man? You tell me. And I was like, give me a chance. And for 7 months I was banging on that person's door. And one Friday afternoon he gives me a call and said to me, is that Peter? And I said yes. And he goes to me, how the— can I get you to stop harassing me? And I said, easy. 'Let me come and see you and I'll tell you why you need me.' Um, that turned into a massive, you know, £5 to £6 million deal, all right, um, where we took, um, the risk of hijacking from, you know, 90% to literally zero, um, by really understanding their pain points. So that was me with my passion. I knew, but I had to spend a year in there understanding the whole business and applying what I knew was an issue for them. So, that's the moonshotting part. That's the, you know, the doing the impossible, making it possible.

Right. That's incredible. And just identifying something that seems impossible to fix, but it's very much so possible.

Absolutely, yeah.

That's wonderful. Well, I don't want to keep you both. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Frances. We had a great time.

Yeah, it's lovely actually being here.

Yeah.

I've seen the photo of the building from the outside.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Thank you so much.

Pleasure.

Thank you.

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