Storytelling for Products, with Connie Kwan of Product Maestro

Welcome everybody to our very first Founder Institute VIP networking summit of this month in October. We're now running these new private networking events regularly, about twice per month. These are closed to the public, so they're just for you, for meeting others from across the FI network, whether that you're an alumni or a currently enrolled founder, as well as we might have some mentors or directors joining us. But everybody, yeah, welcome. Thanks for being here. If you joined early or you've used Airmeet before, you've probably already been networking in the lounge, which is what we'll be doing most of today. So let's kind of get right to the kickoff AMA portion of the event, and I'll just go over a quick agenda here. My name is Dustin Betts. I'm a community manager at Founder Institute. I'm calling in today from Pennsylvania in the United States. But FI is a very global network and we're expecting to have founders join us from all across the world today. So please introduce yourself in the chat. Let us know who you are, what your name is, what your company name is, and where you're calling in from so that before we switch over to networking, we can kind of get a feel for who's here with us today. Yeah, so the agenda for today is basically we're going to have a short presentation and we're going to talk about product storytelling with kind of some question and answer with our featured mentor today, Connie Kwan. And then part 2, as I said, we'll switch over to networking. We have a new kind of optional worksheet that you can download if you go to bit.ly/vip-networking. We'll share that link in the chat so you can just click it, but it basically has some best practices on online networking. And there's different options here on Earmate. So there's one-to-one speed networking, randomly matched, or you can join group video chat tables based around topics or geographies. Yeah, one just final housekeeping note is about Airmeet. It's a great networking platform, but it really works best on Chrome or Firefox from a desktop or laptop. So if you're joining us via a phone or iPad, like a mobile device, we recommend that you use Airmeet's own mobile application and download that because you can listen to the presentation, but some of those interactive features in the networking portion won't work for you on mobile unless you have the dedicated app. Oh, I'm getting some weird feedback. Maybe we'll just take turns, Connie, if you can mute yourself. Okay, yeah, and then, yeah, I'll mute myself then when you're presenting as well. Okay, yeah, so without further ado, I want to introduce our guest today, which I'm thrilled to introduce Connie Kwan. She's a product marketing executive with 17 years experience building teams that are delivering product excellence. So her experience spans a number of different industries: blockchain, enterprise SaaS, on-premises software, consumer applications, digital health, energy, and semiconductors. Currently, she's the fractional chief product officer and chief storyteller at her company Product Maestro, where she advises executives on the product strategy and coaches product managers on crafting powerful stories that resonate with their customers and teams. Connie, so excited to have you join us. Would you like to say anything else at the top before we turn it over to you, please?

That's excellent. Thank you for the introduction, Dustin.

Great. Well then, I'll let you screen share and I'll go on mute for a while, and then we'll switch over to the AMA portion after you're done and ask you some questions.

Excellent. Can you see my screen now?

Yep.

Good. Very good. All right, everybody, really great to meet you and welcome to this session on storytelling for products. My name is Connie Kwan, and there's a code here. If you'd like, you can go and do the storyteller type quiz. There's only 5 or so questions in there, and you can find out what your storyteller type is. We will use that information later on in the presentation. So go ahead and do that, and then I'm going to go forward here. Since this is a storytelling session, I would like to start with a story. This is the Movement Hotel. And if you look at it just plainly, it looks like every other cramped hotel room in Europe, except there are some interesting differences about this room. Are folks able to speak during my presentation, Dustin? Or they can unmute and speak, right?

No, just you and I.

Just you and I? Okay, but they can type messages.

Yeah, they can type in the chat and Veda will help surface those questions to ask you.

Okay. So yeah, question for the crowd, and please type in your chat. Do you notice anything unusual about this hotel room? If you notice anything, type it in the chat and it'll get surfaced. I think as direct messages to me. Okay, I don't see anything yet, but I imagine it's being filtered. I'm going to give you the answer. There's some bars on the windows, and there's of course the word freedom on the wall, because this is no ordinary hotel room. This is in fact a pop-up hotel that is run by refugees in Amsterdam. In a former prison. So this was a prison room before, and that's why there are still these prison bars on the window. And they put the word freedom on the wall because it represents the run from conflict areas of the refugees to their freedom. And if you stay at this hotel, you're not just paying for a night, you're really joining a movement because you're supporting refugees who are working at this hotel, you're supporting the idea of freedom, and you're really a part of a movement. So you get to stay in this special cell for a night and experience what it would have been like. Um, not quite a prison cell, but you know, you get the idea. And what I want to stress here is, um, a product isn't just something that solves a problem, right? A product isn't just, hey, you need somewhere to stay, here's somewhere to stay. A product is much more than that. And the greatest products in the world evoke strong emotions in their customers. So these are some of the things that a customer of Movement Hotel may walk away feeling. They can feel important being a part of something much bigger than themselves. They feel proud to be a supporter of refugees. And they feel so fortunate to not be in an actual prison, but to get to stay in a beautiful refurbished hotel room. And because of these feelings, the customers of this product, of this company, tell their friends and tell their peers about this experience that they have. So, how do you take what this concept is, which is generating strong feelings, about your product with your customers, and then using story to generate those feelings. That's what storytelling is about. So we're gonna go explore that. But before we explore that, I want to share a little bit more about why I became a storyteller. So as Dustin mentioned, I've spent 17 years in product, and product is an interesting role where I work with a lot of different stakeholders. I work with sales, I work with engineering, I work with marketing, Unlike most functions may focus on their specialty, but as a product person, even from very first day without being a manager of a group, from the very first day as a product manager, you're working across the groups. And so, you know, through osmosis, it's become extremely important for me to become a really good storyteller because what I say to sales and engineering can be different, but it's sharing a similar vision. And being able to do that allows me to rally stakeholders and enable product launches. So thousands of stories delivered in order to launch these products at all these companies that I was at. And now I teach storytelling class for product leaders and do product coaching and workshops with teams to help them harvest their product stories. So what I want you to do right now is think about a product that made you feel something. Okay, just go back in your memory and think about the last time a product made you feel something. What was that product? Name that product in the chat. If it's not an obvious product to us, please describe what it is. And then tell us how it made you feel. Dustin, if I'm in messages, I can see direct messages for me, but there's no group chat, is there?

Yeah, click that white X at the top, and then that should— dump you back to the group chat. Yeah, got it. So yeah, so please let us know. Okay, AirPods, somebody says they made them feel useful, hip, and cool.

Hybrid car, part of something. Yep, good one. Podcasting platform. Okay, feels like magic. That's a strong feeling, right? Here are some other feelings. That might be floating around out there about products. And it's no, it's deliberate that frustrated is in the middle there. Too many products make us feel frustrated rather than all the other special things that you're saying, right? These are very positive examples you're giving me, but I'm sure you can think about another product that gave you a negative feeling. So it's extremely important to understand what that feeling is that you're evoking with your customer, because feelings are so powerful. Maya Angelou, who is a civil rights activist and a poet, she said this: People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Brax gives you— I'm seeing some other quotes. Yeah, who agrees? Yeah, it's so true. When I read this, I realize, you know what, it's true. You know, some people I recognize them and I have a positive feeling about them, and some people I recognize and I have a negative feeling about them, but I don't remember exactly what happened in our interaction. I'm just left with that feeling, and the same thing happens to your products. So it's important to manage the feelings that your customers might be having about your products. So how do you manage that feeling that they walk away with? It's through stories, right? Stories, they give meaning to the facts. So if you think about it, things happen and those are the facts, right? The facts happen, but then how people translate those facts into feelings is through the stories. So the stories give these meanings to the facts, and then out of that meaning, they get an understanding. And from that understanding, they get a feeling, and then the feeling is actually what becomes a memory. It's like a multi-stage process from when story happens, from when facts happen to a memory, right? So I'll give you an example. So let's say you slap me in the face. Okay, if you slap me in the face, I'm gonna be like, okay, you're trying to do me some harm. I'm going to register that as a negative feeling, and the next time I see you, I'm gonna walk away, right? But let's say you do this, you slap me in the face, and not too hard, and then you say, "Oh, I'm sorry, Connie, there was a mosquito on your face." Okay, so now I'm gonna actually register that as a positive feeling. I'm like, "Oh, you're looking out for me," right? So next time I see your face, I'm gonna associate that with a positive feeling, and if I see a mosquito on your face, I'll know what to do. Okay, so it's very important that inflection from when facts happen— slap in the face, facts— to when I interpret what that means to me and register that as a memory for me, there's a moment where you get to influence that with the right story. And the truthful story, right? I don't want people to be telling incorrect or unreal stories, inauthentic stories. But there is that moment, and it's important to understand that if you don't If you don't take advantage of that moment, you're not going to be able to make sure your customer walks away with that positive feeling. Okay, so we just talked about feelings and stories and how that's all interrelated. What I want to do now is shift gears a little bit to the storyteller type that I seeded you with earlier. If you didn't get a chance to do the quiz yet, go ahead and take this quiz now. And I'll tie this back to the story and the feeling concepts that I talked about earlier. So I'm gonna take a quick pause and let people do the Storyteller type. And once you find out which one you are— yep, Sage. Yeah, Tamara shared that she's a Sage. Go ahead and share your type when you find out, please.

I put the link also just in there, so if you didn't type out the URL, you can just click that. Hopefully that'll open up for everybody to take the quiz quickly.

Yeah. Jason, I'm so curious about your experience with Brex, cause I'm a user too. And I actually have a positive feeling about them. So it's interesting how it can be different. Sage, wise neighbor. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Keep sharing it as you, as you take the quiz, like not working. Um, www.productmaestro.com/storyteller. If it doesn't, if this one doesn't work for you. Some browsers, sometimes there's some cookies or browser issue. The slash.

Yeah, I put this one that has the HTTP, so the second link I just shared should be definitely clickable.

Yeah, got it. There we go. Thank you. All right. So now that you've taken it, I'm gonna share with you what's behind. What are the types, right? You're probably wondering. So there are actually 6 different types of storytellers. And this is a system that I co-created with an actor. And a professional theater director, looking at the different types of characters there are and different types of storylines there are, and really boiling that down into different types of storytellers, which are spread across an emotional spectrum. And this is the set of storytellers that we have. We've got on the left evangelists, which is the highly emotional, all the way to on the right, professor, the highly logical. Okay, and everybody else is on that, on that spectrum. What that means is you're one type, right? You took the quiz, you're like, okay, I'm a wise neighbor, I'm somewhere in the middle, or I'm a sage and slightly to the left, more, more emotional, right? What that means is if you're talking to somebody who is on the other end, far away from where you are, there's going to be a challenge in terms of how you interpret each other. Because the very logical professor is not going to receive the message the same way as the very emotional evangelist. Okay? And you've seen this happen in your life, right? How many times have I taken the same pitch to my head of engineering, got the head nod and the agreement, took the same pitch over to my head of sales, and just went completely like this, right? Didn't get it. So those are your common archetypes. People self-sort themselves into careers where they get to hang out with a lot of the same types as them because communication's easier. So a lot of engineers end up, a lot of professors, engineers or professors, and they end up in engineering careers because of the logic, kind of that's the language, right? And then a lot of sales folks end up in evangelists. They deal with working with people and accessing the feelings, and that's an important part of their job. So they're very good at that, right? So understanding which type you are really helps you access and know what you're missing when it comes to storytelling, right? If you're on the evangelist side, you're trying to access a professor and help him or her understand what you're saying, you really need to speak their language and access the feelings that they care about. So this is a flavor. These are some of the feelings that are positive for that particular storyteller. And these may be the feelings if you, for example, sell to a set of engineers, you probably want to access the feeling of fascination, right? I'm fascinated with this product. It's so cool, right? It's technically so cool. If you want to access a group of sales folks, Right? Then passion would be an important aspect of the feelings you want to evoke. Right? And that's just one, and there's several dimensions. In my class, we go deep into like positive ones, negative ones, different ways you can present your product. But here's a moment of kind of inspirational example for you. So I, for example, am a visionary. And for me, inspirational messages really hit home for me. So if you look at this and you look at, you know, who you are and who your audience is, and it's helpful to understand, okay, well, my product's trying to sell to sages. I'm over here in a truth teller. Maybe I need to shift my message. My default message isn't going to resonate with them as well. Any questions on this before I move forward? I guess we'll catch some questions at AMA at the end, right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll take a time as soon as you're done to kind of address all questions. So yeah.

All right, then I'll wrap up here. Stories give meaning to facts, and the meaning then leads to understanding, and understanding leads to feeling, and the feeling is actually what we register as a memory. So if you want to be a product that people talk about, you need to make sure they remember it. So you need to make sure you tell a story that helps them evoke the feeling that you wish to evoke. With your story. And with that, I'm gonna wrap up here. We'll have a storytelling class coming in January for leaders. Half the class is usually product leaders and the other half are other functional leaders, that where we go through 6 weeks together and we have live sessions as well as recorded material to get you to take a specific example and work through and build the story for that example. Could be a product, could It could be a resume, could be your idea that you haven't yet hatched. And I'd love to connect with you, so please reach out.

Perfect. Thank you so much, Connie. Yeah, I found that really fascinating, especially the part about the feelings and the connection to memory. I thought the background picture that you had for that slide with people sitting around a campfire was really interesting because, yeah, when I heard about the history of storytelling, it is about before we had writing, even before technology, we were verbal storytellers. And so that's why those feelings are so critical to memory and stuff. It's like we really are a species of storytellers. It's kind of what makes us different from the rest of the animal world, I guess. So yeah, that was really interesting. Yeah, so before we're kind of doing the AMA now, but I just want to encourage people, don't be shy. If you have questions for Connie about products and about storytelling, please put them in the chat. And now is the time to ask them, and we'll pose them here directly. I have a couple of kind of questions that I want to ask about, and basically the first one is just sort of like where you see mistakes in product storytelling, and not just in internal marketing, but if there's a role for storytelling as part of company culture, or storytelling with like internal teams, you know. Are there places that you see mistakes? Yeah, not just with the external storytelling, but mistakes that founders might make with their internal storytelling?

Yes, yes. That's a really good question. The story needs to hold together, and that's really hard. You know, if you run into it being hard, you're not the only one. Because once you start building a product, you start selling different customers, they experience your product differently. And then you gather these stories and you have all these different stories. That are not quite hanging together. And so one of the exercises I actually go through with my workshop clients is we fragment. We're like, okay, we have a story that we need to write for investors. We have one we need for external customers. And then we have one for internal, like our employees, our team. So those three is your triangle. You have to have a story that ties together. Like there's a core of what that is. And that could be your mission, your vision. That has to be the same for all three. Otherwise, you're going to walk around looking a little two-faced. So the mission vision has to be the same for all three, but then the details of each, it's going to differ. Your employee's going to care about quite something else, different questions bringing to the table than your investors and your customers. So we have a story wheel system where we break that all down. And it's very important to look at it as three different inflections of the same story. So that you can be very crisp when you tell the story.

So the 3 sides of that triangle, just one more time, it's, yeah, it's your customers, your investor was the second one, and then your internal teams. Those are like the 3. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. That makes sense. Okay, well, please people, don't be shy in the chat. Yeah, ask your, post your questions and we'll ask them. A question here is, do you, this is sort of about content, which I guess is getting to the nitty-gritty, like marketing of the external storytelling, but I mean, is there, how do you think about the different mediums, I guess, for potential storytelling? Is there content, audio, visual, and video, the classic, like written word? Is there a way that storytelling links to content or a way that you recommend founders, like systematically think through the different options available to them as like mediums and platforms?

Yeah. Every platform will have a different audience. So it's like real life, right? You have different audiences. So I would think very carefully about what each of those platforms care about when you form that story, right? So let's say I'm presenting here at Founders Institute. I thought hard about, right, a lot of folks here are founders of newer ideas, and what do you care about, right? And so I customized what I'm talking about to that context. So it's very important to understand your audience when you do storytelling, so you can tell the right story. In certain groups, there may be language that they use, right? I was at a conference called SaaS-ter last week, and everybody's talking about product-led growth, right? So that's the keyword. That's the keyword that people want to hear in order to be like, oh, okay, you're doing something interesting that I care about. So what are some of those keywords? Similarly, so those are words, you also have images, right? What are images that people connect with? We actually break down the images into different types in the class and talk about different, you know, photos or icons. Like, there are different types that have different emotional value versus logic value, and depending on your audience, again, you want to pick the right image or photo in order to evoke the right emotions with them. So yeah, there's a lot of complexity when you do it. And I think being conscious and being aware that one, you know, there's an audience that you have to make sure you're talking to. And then two, being able to adapt your message, whether that's verbal, whether that's audio, video, images, whatever medium you're using, being able to cherry-pick the right things to connect with them is super important.

Yeah, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, like tying it back to the audience and the emotional things that you mentioned before. There's one question here I definitely want to ask. So this is from Gabriel, and maybe this is proprietary information that you can't reveal, but he's asking out of curiosity about the breakdown of these different storyteller types, or maybe like even just the distribution since there's 6 different ones. Is there, for founders, like, do they tend to weight towards one side or the other of the diagram? Or what does that look like from your research asking that question?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the bar on the bottom here is not an accidental rainbow. It is actually a graph, a bar graph of the percentage of each type based on the input data that I have. Now, keeping in mind the input data I have skews very heavily towards product leaders and CEOs, which are the group I work with in my class. So, you know, they are heavily in yellow and green because they work across the spectrum, right? So they have basically trained themselves to be able to speak the evangelist language and to be able to speak the professor's language when they're doing storytelling. And what we can do is be more deliberate. Like, my students and I, we learn to become more deliberate about the images we choose, about the language that we choose, about the emotion that we're choosing, right? We have basically these choices that we learn about, and then when we plan a presentation or a pitch, we make those choices, and the pitch comes out much more appealing and connecting with their audience. So it's like, if you were like, I'm not a good storyteller, Don't feel like you can never be, because it's completely learned. We can all be really good storytellers. It's about understanding some of these concepts that are core to storytelling. Different narratives that exist, different ways of presenting that information, different ways to emphasize parts of the sentence, for example, in order to connect with your audience more fully.

Yeah, I like Veda's comment that that's a secret data rainbow. Yeah, it was already built into a slide, like we'd already seen the answer to that question, just didn't know it yet. So yeah, that's cool. I find it pretty interesting, but like you said, it's skewed towards, yeah, product and executives. So I don't know if you can extrapolate it to the whole general public. Those are obviously special kinds of people, but interesting nonetheless. Yeah, really cool. Um, the question here is kind of a role for like the external, the stories that are told about you? And maybe the answer is like, you just can't control it. But I mean, this is not just like the media or the press writing about like your company's story, but it could be like, you know, customer reviews that are public on review sites or your website, if you allow reviews, or like what an influencer would say about you or what your competitors say about you. Do you think about that in the context of storytelling, like the stories that other people say about you, or is that kind of like, outside.

Oh, yes, yes, absolutely. From a brand perspective, those are probably the most important. When you do B2C, it's about reviews and kind of the chatter. When you do B2B, it's selling through champions, right? You're not able to sell directly. There's a committee deciding whether they're buying your product 100% of the time in a B2B setting, right? So you need to make sure they're all getting the message that they need, the information that they need. In order to make a positive decision in buying your product. So you're selling usually through one person who is now playing telephone with your message. They'll hear what you say, it does, and then they'll interpret it, and then they'll say it to, you know, the committee. So being able to manage that, manage that well is going to be very important. For B2C, negative, unfortunately, we're in a world where Negative reviews are extremely loud. So you can have 300 positives, but one negative can really damage your reputation. So managing those, right? Going the— there's a book on this, and if I recall, I'll send it out through Dustin, that talks specifically about B2C and its written by someone who managed hotel chains. And what she did was she realized the power of negative reviews when we started having online reviews. She realized the power of that, because it's all about your TripAdvisor rating. And she said, okay, so what I have to do is just destroy all negative reviews. If I just do that one thing, I'm going to be successful. So what she did was created these programs at the hotel where there's a lot of touch points with their customers, in order to catch possible negative reviews in the future, right? So she would have happy hours set up. She would, you know, train our staff to greet and always ask, hey, is there something else we can do, right? And so as part of basically tackling future negative reviews, she put in a lot of programs that allowed them to keep a really strong pulse, making sure everybody walks out happy. And sometimes you just have to, you know, compensate folks that are really upset about the experience. In order to make sure that you stay positive in the chatter, right? So that's super important to manage for sure. And then in the B2B setting, you know, you're trying to train somebody to tell the story for you. So to the extent you're able to help that person be successful, you know, help them understand, okay, when you're talking to— you're the CFO, when you're talking to your sales leader, here's what I would like you to say versus what you would naturally say, right? Like things like that. If you have access to your champion in that way, that's actually gonna be super important. Like, don't just leave them out to do it on their own because they might just fail and then you're not gonna get the business. So yeah, it's super important to control it to the extent you can, right? Like the story, your story, what other people are saying is your story, et cetera.

Yeah, I find that B2B example really illuminating because yeah, I mean, I've personally never like sold a product through a B2B channel. Like as a startup founder, I've always sold B2C, but yeah, what you talked about, the having the champion and then they have to be the one who relays the story onto like these other financial decision makers. Yeah. That's such an interesting insight for how you have to think about it. It's like a meta level of storytelling.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very interesting.

Yeah. So storytelling through telephone, through the game of telephone. Yeah. And there's strategies for dealing with that, but it's hard. It's like expert level.

Yeah, a question from Mario here in the chat is, what are the top feelings? I guess there was different feelings associated with each of those different 6 types, but top feelings, he says, that will ensure people remember the product, what makes that emotional connection. Are there some feelings that have statistically worked better than others?

Hmm, so I shared on this slide A few select feelings that are there. I cannot statistically say there are top feelings, right? I would need a lot more sample size than that, but it really depends on your product. So I don't think it's super relevant what the top feeling is, but it's super relevant what the right feeling is for your product, right? So empathy, for example, is that even a feeling that can be associated with your product. Like if somebody mentioned AirPods, I have AirPods, can I evoke empathy? That doesn't really jive, right? So I think it's more important to choose the feeling for each of these storyteller types that is your audience based on that intersection with what makes sense for your product so that you can have the most impact. So the, you know, the top is less important than the fit.

Perfect. And I want to be cognizant of time here. We're running a little bit over before we switch to networking. So I'm just going to ask one more audience question from the chat here, which is from Fiona. And she's asking, do you think creating a communications narrative is important to ensure consistency in messaging? And I think what she means is, as it regards to, like, other team members who are a part of your, like, overall storytelling. Process? I don't know about communications narratives, kind of a vague term, but how much do you try to systematize, I guess, this among the rest of your team, like sharing the load of the storytelling, whether that's, you know, with the marketing team?

Yeah, yeah, you've probably heard of brand guides, voice, brand voice guides, right? Like if you have a team of 10 people, all being your product, right? Speaking as your product representative, then they need to speak with a common language, common tone, common kind of personality. So that's gonna be important. You can't micromanage every communication that goes out, but having guidance, having a north star for what that should look like is gonna be key. And you know, that's, Getting the team involved. I mean, there are agencies that do this. I do this with my clients where we figure out what the voice should be, what the message should be. We unify that message. We coordinate across, you know, 20, 30 marketers and understand— and marketers, but also product leaders, right? Because the product leaders are sharing that message internally. You know, they're the ones who are rallying the engineering team to build, and then they're the ones who are actually deciding what feature gets built. So, you know, if you're out there saying, oh yeah, we're the, we're the leader on, let's say it's a dating site, oh, we're the leader on connecting 20-somethings to meet each other, and then you build a product that isn't catered towards that age group, right? Then you've got some disconnect there. So it's very important that the team that's building and the team that's communicating are in sync in terms of what the message is and what's the key kind of voice that you're going out with.

Perfect. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I just want to say thank you so much, Bonnie, for your time for this presentation. I'm going to stop your screen sharing because I want to throw up my own slides just really quickly here before we switch to the open networking. So bear with me just one second. Skip, skip these ones we've already seen. So, okay, here's the final explanation here before we move over. So, yeah, Airmeet reminders, already mentioned these things a little bit. You're gonna wanna be on Chrome or Firefox if you're joining from a desktop or laptop, or if you're on a mobile app, you're gonna wanna use the Airmeet mobile app. We have this worksheet that you can download and we'll make sure to drop this link into the chat. And so this is optional just to kind of give you best practices. Basically, brevity is really important, more so than the in-person networking. With these online networking. So, it just gives you some good prompts to connect with other people here. Yeah, please be respectful of everybody's time when you're networking, especially in the group tables. So, yeah, try to be concise and take turns speaking and asking questions. If you meet somebody here in the networking portion that you do want to further connect with, the pro tip here is to don't lose them on Airmeet. Look up their name under the attendees tab here and send them a direct message. Make sure you either exchange contact information or social media links so that you don't lose one another when you, when you leave, uh, Airmeet. And then, yeah, the final slide is just, um, we hope everybody, uh, has fun. Uh, yeah, we're excited to host these private networking events for the FI network. And, um, yeah, we hope that you enjoy the time after this to connect with others. And just want to say, um, once again, thank you so much to, to our guest today, Connie Kwan, for speaking with us.

Thank you. Thank you, Dustin.