The Art of the Pivot: How to Quickly Steer Your Company to Revenue, with Paul D'Souza

Hey everybody, welcome to this Founder Institute webinar. My name is Jonathan Grecian, co-founder of the Founder Institute. I do know that we got a lot of people joining today from the Americas. I know it's, it's pretty early there in Asia, and I know we have a lot of people joining from Asia today as well. So, so welcome. Today we're going to talk about a very prevalent topic that's going on in the world, and that is the art of the pitch. Pivot. You know, I think pivoting your startup is important at any given time if you're not hitting the right tones with the customers, but definitely in times like these when we're sort of in an economic downturn. And we're excited today to have a great speaker to talk about this. His name is Paul D'Souza. Hello, Paul.

Hey, how you doing?

Good. So Paul, and a lot of people don't realize this, but in the Founder Institute, right, we have the people that go through the program, the founders, the entrepreneurs, the startups, like we're rating and reviewing reviewing them every single week to see their progress. But the mentors also get rated and reviewed by the founders. And if a mentor doesn't get rated and reviewed well, they're not invited back. Well, Paul is, is literally like in the top 1 or 2% of ratings for mentors around the world. He's been mentoring us for— mentoring with us for a very long time, multiple cities, multiple countries too, I believe.

Yeah, exactly.

In Mexico and a few other places, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

So, well, in Atlanta and— yeah. Awesome place in the country. I have a funny story about that. I had lunch with Adele, my gosh, maybe 2 years ago. And the first thing out of his mouth is like, damn it, your ratings are higher than mine. You know how he is, right? Like, boom. I'm like, okay, whatever.

That's the beauty, the beauty of gamification, right?

Right. So yeah, really happy to be here. Such a timely topic, man.

Yeah. And Paul's worked with hundreds, if not thousands of companies from small startups to large corporations. And I Paul, maybe if you want to introduce yourself real quick before we get started.

Yeah, for sure. Hey, thanks for the opportunity. Hi everybody, Paul D'Souza. Nice. What can I tell you? Author, you know, speaker. Okay, I'm going to date myself, right? This is not my first bad market. I went through the recession in 2008. That's when I wrote this book, The Market Has Changed. Have you— market has changed again. I mentor startups, I turn businesses around. I'm a sales strategy consultant. My primary offer is Chief Revenue Officer as a Service. So I help companies with doing zero revenue, founders that have got an idea, they want to put a model around it. I stop at $25 million or maybe $50 million on a good day because after that, business gets kind of political. And I'm just straight up, man. Let's get to revenue. But in a nutshell, I'm that guy. Some people call me Paulie the Prophet. P-R-O-F-I-T. Nice.

All right, well, I see, yeah, we got over 130 people live now. I see people from Brazil, LA, New Orleans, so this is great. Just a quick note before I give it away to Paul to give the presentation. So the way this is going to work, Paul's going to go through a presentation now about 20 minutes or so, give or take, and, uh, but if at any given time you have questions, please don't be shy, throw them into the chat right here, okay? You know, there's plenty of videos on YouTube that you can watch, a static video if you wanted to learn something, right? The whole point of these webinars is that we can interact with you, the audience, and that you can ask questions to us. So please, if at any time, throw your questions into the chat. We have members of the FI team in there, and once Paul's done with the presentation, we're just going to go through those questions one by one and have a really interesting discussion.

Exactly.

Awesome.

Hey, thank you so much. Uh, for everybody out there, hello again. For my Brazilian friends, tudo bem? I am from the other Portuguese town in India, from Goa, so y'all are my favorites. Uh, and with that, I'm going to start, uh, following what Jonathan said. Please ask questions. I'm going to give you practical tips and techniques and ideas that you can use today to make a difference and get revenue tomorrow. I'm going to give you examples of companies that are making the pivot right now that I'm helping, 6 companies or so. All right, so please be in, please participate if you would. So yes, the market has changed. All right, the pandemic has affected several market segments. All of us, we're all at home. It's changed. So that's there. Now the question is, when in quotes the market comes back, it may not be the same market. I guarantee it's not going to be the same market. You're going to have new normals. And I'm going to say, offer ideas and suggestions on how there is a market now, even though we are in a bad market. The market is still there, right? So the question is, will you have the same customers? Will you have the same products or services? Will they be relevant? Will your business model be the same? Will you have to change, right? So these are the questions I want you to start thinking about for yourself. How has this market affected you? Right now, when you look at the market, what I'm seeing is there are 3 types of companies. Once you have the startups that, you know, they say, hey, we've, we want to, we've got to get going. The timing was crazy. We're ready to launch. The market, this change, what are the opportunities? Maybe we can create a solution. I'm finding people that are creating So designing new solutions to serve, like startup from the ground up. Then I've seen companies that have been affected tremendously with the market, right? You take the restaurants as an example, travel business as an example, enterprise software, if you would. But then there are other companies that are actually growing. I'm working with a lot of companies right now. One of my clients is in the logistics space, the 3PL, third-party logistics. We are rocking. I'm signing up a client every day. Every week. And this is where, because when people are at home, they are buying different kinds of things, you see. Even though we are sheltering in place, it's written here in California, we have, you know, Governor Newsom has said transportation is part of essential services to keep the wheels of the economy moving. You can still buy products, you can buy toys for your kids, you can buy exercise equipment, and companies like one of my clients in the logistics space is actually delivering them. So there's tremendous growth opportunities for some types of companies in the market today. Question is, where are you, right? You've gotta locate yourself. Now, the question is revenue, and we'll shoot for revenue today to keep the business going. If you can make a profit, that's even better. But the fundamentals of revenue basically are around that you've got to solve problems that people can't solve themselves, right? That's the key, right? So are you solving problems that are big enough? Are they complex enough where people are going to ask for help and say, no, no, I need a professional to help me with this, I can't make that myself, I've got to have somebody make it for me, I've got— I need a hack, I need a service, I need a product. So you've got to address issues like that. Uh, recently I was reviewing a business model and there was a problem It wasn't a problem anybody would pay money for, right? As founders, I want you to think about that. Those are really hard questions you gotta answer. Is this somebody— a problem that somebody will want to solve? And then the other problem with today's market is, can you deliver, right? I have clients that have sold products on Kickstarter, but they can't complete manufacturing in China. So, or you know, you've got software, you can't deliver it because you people are sick, or you know, you even though they're sheltering at home, the delivery process is you can't fulfill on the promises you make. That's very important. You've got to complete the transaction before you get paid, as an example, right? So think about those kinds of issues. Now, You also got to think about, hey, where are the opportunities, right? And the, the opportunities really are in the healthcare space. They're in keeping people safe. They are in maybe surviving this new market, surviving these market conditions. So obviously you've got the personal health, you've got the personal safety products, you've got the health and hygiene products. Helping companies survive may be like, I just got a letter of intent from the enterprise space, from a large company, a logo that we'd all recognize, helping them with employee engagement. They want to monitor and they want to make sure, they want to support their employees while they're working at home, right? So we're helping them survive in the market today. And then there are opportunities where you can thrive. I've got a company in Mexico that was, had, 20 products in shampoos and soaps and stuff like that. I'm gonna talk about in the case study. They are not in the survival, they're in thriving mode. They've been asked to shut down all the other shampoos and just focus on hand sanitizer. And they are rocking, right? So again, down markets still have markets. And you've gotta find that, you gotta sniff out the opportunities for yourself. And I'm gonna show you how to do that. Again, guys, if these things that I'm talking about are triggering ideas and suggestions, thoughts, put them down in the chat. Put your thoughts down and we'll get to them. If we don't get to them on the show today, we can get to them a little further down the road. But put them down because— put your thoughts down, put your hand up if you would, ask questions, because I want this to be useful for you right now. If you're a startup You've got to find a problem worth solving. You've got to find problems that people cannot solve themselves, where they need extra help. And you've got to make sure that they are valuable problems to solve, right? We all live with problems, but the question is, are they valuable enough for people to pay you money for? So I sort of come up with a value chain around problems, right? There are problems we live with, and be very sensitive to that. Right? I say, I just don't solve problems, I solve funded problems. It's a huge distinction. Subtle, significant, right? Then you've got to be clear about, hey, this problem, can it be solved by myself? Or I live with it or solve it myself? Or can I solve it with a little bit of money? Because if you've got to know from your customer's perspective, is this something they'll give you money for? This is the difference between a nonprofit and a for-profit, and we've got to be very clear about that, right? Or is the problem you're trying to solve something what people will pay a lot of money for? And in times like this, when you're in a tough market, the fundamentals are what you anchor on, because it's the fundamentals that will drive you. If, if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. That dog won't hunt, right? So when I mentor students, I look at that. I look at, hey, that's cool, I love the tech, but is it something that people cares about? If people don't care about it, if they're going to give you money for it, it is irrelevant for the market. It may still be a good idea, but it is irrelevant for the market. And in today's world, you've got to make sure that your concepts and ideas, the stuff you're going to put your soul and heart behind, is market viable, is that people would pay you money and you can deliver because infrastructure is kind of challenged right now, right? So I want you to think about that. Now if you're a company that has been losing market share where you were rocking before March and you thought you had your whole business model, you know, you were gonna hockey stick in June, July, you had launched, you're in the early stages and you were going well and suddenly, ooh, We took a left turn, right? We did the COVID-19 thing. Now what? Now you go through this and you say, hey, what is the essence of my offer? What am I really good at? What is the core value that I'm presenting to the world, right? You need to anchor on that because man, you're striped the way you're striped, right? You are who you are and you've got a set of skills or product or IP or what have you that you have which is unique to yourself. And through what you can put together through your circle of influence, right? So you have to be very clear about the essence of your offer, the essence of your fundamental capacity to act, right? You've got to be clear about that. And then you've got to say, who needs that? Who needs what I have to offer the world? And it gets very, very, very, very personal at this point, right? Once you're clear about that, then you can figure out, hey, can I make an offer? Can I design an offer And can I develop revenue models that people can live with in today's economy, right? You can't charge people an arm and a leg. It's a great opportunity to partner with your clients and then really make money, but not too much money because it will not come across well. It never does, but you've got to figure out the revenue models that make sense for you as well as them. And then again, guys, I'm in the space. Can you deliver? I'm actively involved with one of my clients in logistics, so I'm very familiar with infrastructure. Flights have been canceled, cargo ships have been canceled, prices are— the schedules are delayed. They're making extra stops. It's not easy. Prices are going up. There's a logistics company in Hong Kong charging 50% of standard pricing as a COVID-19 surcharge, right? Delivery and the ability to deliver on a promise is really paramount. I got my laundry done the other day and the sheltering in place, she's functionally open but only 3 days a week or 2 days a week, right? Everything, every business is going through a different tempo, a different capacity to act, a different timeline. So make sure you can deliver, right? So that's another thing to look at. Now if you're a growing company, you have a different set of challenges, right? What products are selling? Like my company in Mexico that is at 20-something products, shampoos and horse shampoos and dog shampoos and all kinds of things, they have shut everything down. And they're now selling only, or they're manufacturing only the hand sanitizer, right? And they're going up to 30,000 gallons a month. They've never done 30,000 gallons a month, right? So that the whole cross-sell, upsell value is about, no, just selling what needs to be sold. But you might have a cross-sell, upsell opportunity. You may be in with a client, with your customers, and hey, I can actually do XYZ. I can actually cross-sell and upsell. I can add value here. I can add value there. So think about that, right? Again, can you deliver? And then if you need to scale, how will you scale? I've got like the logistics company where we're doing added value, added service. We're connecting them now, our clients, with manufacturing companies and assembly plants because guess what? China's and other places are not being able to produce like they did before. You've gotta think about, and I would say think about how you can partner with your clients, right? Your customers to add bigger value. You may need funding. Right? You might have orders now if you, if you're growing and thriving in today's world, but you might not have the funds. So I've actually got relationships with funding sources and private equity. My private equity contacts are buying companies now, right? Because they're going in and helping them with investment dollars needed for growth. So again, in the down market, the market is still there. That may be my tagline for today. All right. Now the biggest value-add in the art of the close is really, art of the pivot is, it's personal, it's leadership. I think that's the biggest value-add for today. It's the most needed offering, if you would, or requirement. Leadership, I'm seeing companies where people really, leadership is so important to keep employees engaged while they're sheltering at home. Your customers want leadership to know that you can take care of them if you're still taking care of them from, even though you're working at home. In the logistics space, we're seeing that. I've got a restaurant, a high-end restaurant that I've been coaching. You know, their customers, they typically never had a delivery service, but now they're starting a delivery service because they're offering leadership to the customers to take care of them while they're sheltering at home, right? You might need to redesign narratives. You need to increase collaboration. You need to help people not be panicking and in negative mindsets of being a victim in this market. Who cares what the government did or did not do? Leadership, be optimistic, clear, and decisive. Right, focus on a better tomorrow. Be there and take care of people's emotions. This is so, so, so, so important. And start with yourself, right? I mean, that's where it all starts. I mean, you've gotta start with yourself. You've gotta hold a narrative of power. right? A mindset of— I call it a mindset of joy. That's my happy place, right? My core value is really a value of joy. I mean, I stand for helping people live in harmony by having moments of joy, being anchored in your passion, being anchored in your clarity of who you are and how you can serve the world, right? This sense of service will then trickle into your business narrative. So how do your personal narrative impact your business narrative, right? And then you've got to start to prioritize. In a challenging market, we don't know if this is 1 month, 2 months, 3 months, 9 months of sheltering in place. We don't know. So you've got to prioritize and say, hey, how much resources, how much resources do I have? When's my, you know, drop-dead date in terms of my cash flow for the business? What proactive steps can I take? You've got to prioritize. What technology do I advance? What solutions do I build out? You've got to prioritize what's important for yourself and what actions you take today can actually lead to revenue and growth as soon as possible, right? For yourself. And then, I mean, for all of us that are sheltering in place, take this time and create the space for you to reinvent yourself. I reinvented myself. In 2008, when I wrote this book, I actually went from doing a lot of sales, and I was actually a sales consultant to start with, but I went into from consulting and sales and being a full commission salesperson for companies, I really stepped up my game and I started doing strategy work and training and coaching around helping companies get their revenue from strategic perspective and bringing in technology. So Reinvent yourself. Right now, I'm reinventing myself again during this downturn, right? I'm getting aligned closer with private equity money, and now we're buying companies and improving value and then going to exit with them in a few years. So take the time to reinvent yourself in this market. It's a huge opportunity, right? And really, you know, I'm a big believer in dreaming, right? In dreaming about the future you want. What separates us from the apes, right, is our ability to think. So being able to think about who we are and what we want to do and create the future we want is the first fundamental step. So reinvent yourself and start thinking about the future that you want to create when we get to the other side of this, or while we get to the other side of this. Again, check in with you guys if this is making sense, if it's perturbing you enough to think about a question or a situation for yourself. Please capture the questions down, ask the question, we'll get to it. If we don't get it on this session, we'll get to it as a follow-up. But I'd love for you to actually use this information to make some significant changes in your life today, right, and in your business. Now, a market like this is constantly moving. Every day you read the news and it's a different reality, right? So you've got to be very aware of the situation. What are you gonna focus on? What are your customers focusing on? How are you best suited to help them? I'm all about designing valuable offers that help your customers. Start collaborating with them, right? What are your customers thinking of and how can you partner with them, right? And how can you collectively go through this pandemic? And I'm gonna tell you this for sure, all business is personal. It's one of my taglines. Right? How do you— and how you help your customers now is going to make a huge impact. It's going to be a foundation for success in the future with the same people you try to help today. Be kind. Be benevolent. Pay it forward. Serve. These are your fundamentals. This is the art of the pivot. All right. We've checked in. You've got questions. Write them down. Let's rock and roll. I want to get to case studies. Okay, so we've— I've talked about the 3PL. I've got 4 or 5 case studies and I think we should be done. I'm not keeping track of time that well, but, um, right. So you've got— I'm working with a 3PL, one of my clients today. Typically, you know, they're doing freight warehousing, order processing, inventory management. But now with China freaking out in terms of shutting down, first with the tariffs and then with their, uh, with the, with the, the virus Their manufacturing has gone way off the cliff. They're not doing much. They finally started coming back together. But guess what? Market's still there. People are buying product. People are buying product on Amazon. I've got product companies that can't get their products manufactured. So guess what? I extended and I am bringing in parts from China and I'm introducing them to assembly plants in Mexico. And finishing the product in Mexico and then bringing it in the US and selling it on Amazon and Shopify, WooCommerce, and all that else and moving forward. Again, closing deals because I can do that. Closing deals because I can bring in a product from Busan in Korea or from Estonia in Europe or from Thailand, not just China, not just Shenzhen, not just Hong Kong, right? This is what customers want. I never pulled product much out of Hanoi before. I am now, right? So we've had to pivot by extending the places we can pull product from, building more relationships, staying on top of freight, and then finding assembly plants in Mexico which are still running and getting product assembled in Mexico and then shipping them to the US, right? This is what they're doing. This is how they're pivoting in today's market. Trying to find the right button here. Ah, my VA team. I'm working with a VA team in the Philippines. I put them on hold being like, hey, I gotta be conservative, right? They called me and said, we care about you and your business and we would like to offer you 50% off the original rate for a month as you ride this out. And then she went to explain that how people are at home and they're still checking online and they're still trying to plan the future. And they actually offered me, me, offered me support and said, we'll partner with you. What do you think I did? I doubled down. I said, sure, let's go. And instead of working 4 hours a day, I'm— I now have a VA that's helping me with, with online marketing and my website and this and that, 8 hours a day, full-time, because they partnered with me. I want you to do that with your customers. Go partner with them. Say we are in this together. What a phenomenal approach. Amazing, amazing people. Oh, if you want a good virtual assistant Reach, find me, right? And I'll hook you up. Good people, good people, right? This is from many years ago. I was working with a 3D animation studio, but I love the concept of what we did. It was very— it's what I talked about earlier. Find the essence of what you're doing. They were making 3D animation studios to sell high-end luxury resorts, you know, like a walkthrough, and you can see the rooms and stuff for that. That market tanked. Real estate tanked in 2007, 2008, right? We ended up selling training for Patriot missile training to the military. We gamified 3D, 3-ring binders. The new soldiers are Xbox kids. So we brought in gamification and 3D animation through binders and boring material for training the military on how to use weapons and things. I remember the Patriot missile was one of the things we did.

Right?

Again, anchored in on the essence of their value. They were storytellers, 3D storytellers with animation. And we went from selling luxury resorts to games and training for the military. So that's what I'm talking about. What is the essence of what you're doing and who has budget today to help solve those problems? Right? This was technology, it wasn't product. Right now, I have a gentleman who had a successful Kickstarter campaign on with backpacks. He had a really special type of backpack. And he's in Hanoi. Hanoi is a capital for fabric. That's what they do there. It's not like Shenzhen in China, which has a lot of components, electronic components. There's a lot of fabric coming out of Vietnam. He's there at the moment. And he called me on WhatsApp the other day, middle of the night, and said, hey, can you airlift cartons because he's making face masks and going to sell them because that's what people need today. He's responding to the market, right? So he's got a store on Amazon and he's gonna be selling face masks. I'm gonna be bringing them by the container load, by the pallet load, maybe airlifting them. We haven't got to that stage yet, but that's how people are moving. They're responding to the market, right? He knows nothing about face masks. He's a military, ex-US vet, ex-military guy. Who like to bicycle and have these really cool backpacks for bicyclists, as an example. This is how someone's responding. So how are you responding? Think about that. This is an enterprise software company that has, like you have, you know, Hey Siri for the phone, they've got a conversational tool where you can talk to enterprise data. Much better than ThoughtSpot and Tableau and people like that because they're going straight to the data. They had a tool, the solution they were selling for the CRM space for Salesforce data, and guess what? That market's not there today. So we designed an employee engagement tool and actually got a letter of intent yesterday. Yeah, yesterday I got, I got verbal for that. We did the presentation last week. We made the pivot, made the switch, and they said, yeah, we actually need to take care of our employees at home. We want to know what's going on. How can you help us do that? Let's put that together. And they signed the NDA and the LOI, right? So again, enter— it's across the board. Solve problems that people have today. That's the pivot we went because no one was interested. They weren't interested in the CRM solution, but taking care of employees, that struck a note. They had budget. They are concerned about that. Solve problems your customers want to solve. Stop selling stuff that you want to sell. In fact, I say stop selling, start supplying solutions, right? 5Ss. All right, I just got a couple more, Jonathan, over here from the case studies. So here I got a brew— a brewing company, a beer company in Tecate, Mexico, right? They're between San Jose is the office, the brewing company is in Tecate. They sell to restaurants. The restaurant market has died. It's gone away. It's on hold. So we're helping them finish production and filling up their stockpile, if you would. They gotta keep it fr, you know, 31 degrees or whatever, the right amount. But now they've got production lines available. Remember that I was talking about the hand sanitizer company? They don't have the bottling system. So we're gonna bring, make 1,000-gallon batches of the hand sanitizer. And then we're gonna have the beer company. Do the bottling. And then with a little bit of product upgrade, we actually give equipment upgrade, we're going to start making hand sanitizer in the brewing company because it's alcohol, because they're much bigger, you see. Again, they're pivoting that way. They're taking their core, what are the core essence, they know how to produce alcohol. For beer, it's very little percentage. With a little bit of added-on equipment, they can get hand sanitizer. Same core industry, same core function. And they're pivoting and offering a very valuable service in today's world, right? I've got a high-end restaurant, a $3 million facility in Wrightsville, Pennsylvania. Huge. They do banquets, pizza places, parlor, all in the same building. Amazing people, but very high-end. They really never did takeout and delivery, not as a huge part of their business. But as soon as this thing happened, we were talking. I meant to have been mentoring one of their chefs for many, many years, good friend of mine. And we talked about this, this was 10 days ago. And he basically got his, he had to lay his waitstaff off, but then he brought a few people back. They redesigned very quickly, redesigned the fancy menu to 7, 8, 10 items that would be very convenient to be packed up. And they're doing lunches and dinners. And they brought some of the waitstaff and they trained them how to do delivery, but with protocols around hygiene. In safety and things like that, both for themselves and their customers. Very highly valuable. And they brought the prices down to be relevant for today's market, not luxury, right? Again, being of service, being of value, keeping the wheels turning, pivoting as the market changed. I hope this is making sense for you. I've got a few extras, but Jonathan, before I go there, how are we doing with time?

Oh, we're, we're great, man. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm encapsulated, so please, uh, feel free to go over a couple of minutes and we'll get to the questions. Great questions coming in too, please keep them going. But yeah, but yeah, Paul, please keep going.

All right, good. Thank you, Jonathan, because I got a few things I want to share with you guys. This is the extras around me thinking about some of my secrets, right? Some of my core fundamental ideas that'll be very useful and very helpful. Right, so again, what's the psychology? What's the linguistics around, about, around how you need to engage with your customers today? Right, so please talk to your customers about how they will benefit from your offer. You know, uh, Adele used to say, stop throwing up, stop showing up and throwing up. Nobody cares about who you are and what you can do unless it makes sense and can benefit your customers. So I'm saying don't even speak about what you're doing, what you can do. Speak about how you can help. Speak about how they can benefit from what you can do. Make a huge difference, huge difference, right? Now, when you're trying to sell, and this is fundamental, I don't care what market you're in, these rules never change. Good market, bad market. In fact, in a bad market You've got to be really sensitive about these rules. You've got to build rapport. If somebody doesn't like you, they're not going to trust you. Once you have the trust, which is the second piece, now they're going to say, hey, I trust you, you have integrity, you're a nice guy, we get along, you understand me, let me share my problems with you, let me show you my dirty laundry. All business is personal. Nobody is going to talk to you about their problems if they don't like you and they don't trust you. Right, this is key. Once they start sharing their problems with you, if they like you and if they trust you, then I suggest— this is the art of the pivot— you collaboratively, right, design a solution that they like, that they will comfortable with, that they say, that's safe enough for me, right? Try to get their input. It's It could be a survey, right? It could be a phone call. It could be, you know, uh, getting on a Zoom call and designing something for them where they say, I have this problem, and say, maybe we can help, and you'll mastermind it together, right? And then you got to present the solution in a way that they will buy. You can't just arbitrarily pick a model in your head and say, this is worth $50,000. It may be worth $80,000. It may be worth $5,000. The customers will tell you how much they'll pay for it. That's what it's worth, not what you think it's worth. And then your negotiation should be very simple. I've got a graphic I'll explain to you. I've got this explained. You negotiate and close. The negotiate and close is 3%. 3% of this entire value chain. The 1, 2, the rapport and trust is 40% of the value chain. I'm explaining to you, I've got a slide just for that. You cannot skip these steps. This is important. If you win a deal, you can actually sell them something else. If you lose a deal, you want to see where you broke down. Did you break down in designing a solution? You just try to shove something down their throat? Or did you not identify the problem well enough? Or did you not even have trust, right? So you might have to go back to where you think you need to go back. Now another important thing is Guys, in today's world, the sales ecosystem has changed. And if you go to my LinkedIn profile, I've written about this. I've written 30 articles, 40 articles. The new sales team is anybody that's touching the customer, anybody that's contributing to customer experience. So it could be you guys in product development and design, innovation. In the old days, dating myself, used to call it R&D. Right? People who are doing marketing, business development and pre-sales, sales, solution design. If you're in IT, you've got solution design architects. They sometimes have much better relationships with customers and prospects than the sales guys do because they're talking sense, right? They're talking science, they're talking, you know, business. And then your customer support, the delivery piece. I once was helping turn around a printing company here in Silicon Valley. And I realized my drivers that were delivering, that were supporting the customer with the prints for large buildings, large format printing, had better relationships with the customers than my sales, fancy sales guys. So I put the sales guys in t-shirts and jeans and Dockers and sent them to the site as tagalongs and riding shotgun with the drivers and carrying the rolls of printing. They were meeting the estimators. Anybody that's touching the customer is your sales team. That's the future. This is the new business, right? I've gone through this before. Let's skip through this, you know, find a problem solving. Step 2, design a solution. Define your new target market. This is— we've talked about this. Build rapport, build trust, right? This is coming, right? Understand their business, gather requirements, do this collaboratively. Design a solution. Sell them something they have participated in actually putting together. Collaborate. They'll tell you, hey, you know, if you stay with below $50,000, I can sign for it, or below a quarter million dollars, I can sign for it. They'll tell you that. I was trying to get a letter of intent the other day. She said, if it's certain things, I can sign. If it gets too complicated, legal's got to get involved. Collaborate around things you want them to do for you. Negotiate and create a win-win situation. It all— you have a much higher chance of closing the deal, right? Deliver the solution and then cross-sell and upsell. I want you to get to— you sell once and you never lose that friendship, you never lose that trust and rapport, and you can keep servicing that account, keep selling them whatever they need next because their problems will always keep popping up, right? It's the revolving door, but it's anchored on trust, anchored in relationship. Right, you can collaborate. Now, this is the slide I wanted to get to. The building trust and rapport is a huge part, right? All the way down, I put it 80%, because you don't have game until you have trust. You don't have game, because if you have trust, not just they like you, then you can— when they have a problem, It goes very quickly because they trust you. They know you're a leader in your space. They share their problems with you and you can very quickly design a solution that makes sense. And the close is irrelevant because they'll say, hey, Paulie, we can't afford that. Why don't we cut this here? We'll do phase 1, phase 2, phase 3. Almost 100% of the time, my customers are telling me how to close them if you build trust with respect. It's all about integrity, all about integrity. All business is personal. Just a few more tips. The old, old customer engagement model, you know, customers would come and talk to you, and now what they basically, they want to collaborate with you, right? So I would say engage with your customers very quickly. And make sure that they're involved in the process, right? And we'll get to this. We can get to this over and over again. It's variations of the same thing. Communicate, communicate, collaborate, collaborative, stop selling, and design the future with your customers together, right? I think that's about it that's relevant. Jonathan, you know, my— people want to know who you are. They want to know what your why is. And my final comment on this would, for everybody, is, you know, my why and why I get excited at what I do is I help people find their joy. In fact, I have a nonprofit called the Wado Institute and we help people find joy. That's what I do. How I do it is I do this by helping people align with their business strategy and their personal goals. Right? We just bought a ranch in New Mexico. We're gonna have, when we can all start flying again, come to the ranch. We'll do retreats over there. Right? We'll ride horses, we'll play polo, and we'll get into your personal headspace. I want you to— you have to be— you have to offer yourself to people. And what I do is this: speaking engagements, coaching, consulting, private equity. I have these vehicles that allow me to do what I do, which is bring joy. But to you, right, to your customers, you want to be clear about what your why is and how you're going about doing it. And what you do in the market has got to be in alignment with yourself. Right? This is integrity. This is self-integrity. And guess what? It comes out. That's what your customers buy. So find the art. This is the foundation of the art of the pivot. You've got to offer yourself as a resource to help people. With that, I'm done, Jonathan.

All right. That was awesome. And yeah, we have a ton of questions in the chat too.

Oh, good.

So great job by everybody in the chat. Now I want to start, before I start getting into everybody's questions that have been submitted, and there's still time to submit questions, all right? So, you know, I know a lot of people just sort of like to digest it and then get into questions. So please don't be shy. You know, Paul, I love your mindset and your energy on this kind of stuff. There's a lot of doom and gloom going on right now, right? And I love just this idea of like, look, it's Yeah, it's a down market, but it's still a market. So, you know, people are still buying and selling. It's just a little bit different, right?

Yeah, it's a lot different.

A lot. Yeah, a lot different. Fair enough.

I mean, I really want to acknowledge how tough it is. It really is. And it breaks my heart to see how so many industries and verticals and people— I mean, we've got 6.5 million people applied for unemployment. This is tragic. You know, but there is, but you're right, there is a market.

Yeah, yeah. It's, and I think that's a, it's a great message to any entrepreneur, right? And even if you're at the idea stage, right, then it's like, then it's an opportunity. Yeah. But even if, you know, for all the companies, I mean, Founder Institute's one of the largest in-person event organizers in the world. I mean, you know, none of us have slept in weeks because we're moving everything online, right? But again, it's like, You know, it's, you don't have a choice, you just gotta do it. And it's still a market, there's still people there. It's just about learning kind of their new language, right? Of how to solve the problems that they have.

Exactly, exactly.

All right, so I'm gonna start getting to the questions here. So Suver asked, just sort of on this positivity front, right? Especially, you know, you were talking about being a leader and how it's important in a situation like this to not go that doom and gloom route and just be like, hey, it's just different, we just need to figure it out. Like Suver asked, how important it to have a positive attitude towards sales escalation versus being tempered down towards, you know, the actual revenue that's coming in, right? Like, numbers are going down for people, right? So how do you kind of keep that positivity in a way where you can shift it towards productivity, right?

I think the focus is on productivity and being real. The last thing you can do is be hyper about BS, right? I mean, I was talking to somebody, a VC, and they just across the board are slashing projections 50%, just straight boom. I'm getting feedback from prospects, hey Paul, I love what you're doing, but please come back to us in October, November, December. That's real. So, but if you're not doing your due diligence to find the market, you don't have the right to be positive about a fantasy market. You got to be very clear about the fantasy market, of your market, and make sure you're not in fantasy about the market. So again, it's, it's, this is the time to be like, you know, super focused. It's not, not like, oh, it's gonna be great, we'll get through this. Yeah, we will, but what are you doing? Have you found the pivot, right? Once you find the pivot, rock and roll. But until you find the pivot, focus, right?

And on the situational awareness front, right, the all business is personal, I love that just as an overarching quote on that. And I know, you know, giving people discounts and things like that and understanding the problems that they're going in, you know, Nandini asked, how important is it to keep connected to your usual market, right? Because you may be moving some stuff around, you know, while, you know, while you may be pivoting towards a new offering when things are moving so quickly like this.

Again, you got to be realistic about— you can't serve two masters. You've got to focus on the market you have. If your current customers may be customers in the future, you just put them, you know, treat them like an ex-girlfriend or an ex-boyfriend, right? You'd be kind, but you stay away from them because you owe it to yourself to go after revenue. And this is discipline, you know, but again, you know, benevolence and kindness. Those are my building blocks, right? But you— we're here to make— in business, in business, we're here to make money and we're here to make profit. There's no other purpose of business. You can— because without that, you don't have a business. Now you can add a social value if you want to. You can be— say, I want to be kind, I want to be nice, I want to add value, I want to serve. Yes, but if you're not making profit, you won't have sustainability to serve, right? So when you're going after a new market and you say you had clients, be in communication and say, I would love to help you when your market comes back. And focusing on this right now and be very personal about it. People love to share stories. Everybody wants you to be successful, but you've got to be super clear about how are you going to get the next check. That's what I'm doing. I'm literally talking to one client less than than before because they didn't have too much of an opportunity. With another client, I actually gave them the pivot and closed the deal. And I'm not talking— I got him. I followed up on 16, 17 people, and most of them said call me in Q4. 5 seconds, man, I'm gone. It's Q4 time. I'm not going to really check in much because I know they don't they're not going to make that offer. They're not going to purchase that offer. Now, as I get clear with this new offer in employee engagement, I'll go back and say, hey, is this relevant? But I'm not going to try to sell something they told me is not going to be relevant until they hit a new level of stability.

Right.

Yeah, that's a collaboration piece. For me, it's all collaboration. I don't have any— I'm very, um, You know, my mind is very clear. It's very— there's no disturbance because I get excited about an opportunity when I get validation from a client that says, hey, I've got an idea, can you help me with this? Yep, right. My closing statement, or my, you know, I get— I create a space of possibility when I ask the question. Not— I don't ask I don't say, I got this to sell, you want to buy? I almost never say that. I create the space of possibility and say, hey, how can I help?

And it's a related question here Bill asks. And I think Bill's question is, have you changed your ask for the close in this environment? And if so, how? Right. And I guess it's sort of related to the situational awareness, right, of saying, hey, the world, the world has changed. So is your sales process— has it changed at all?

The— yes, it absolutely has changed. And the way it's changed is by being super sensitive to solving my clients' prospects' problems today. I never— I don't have— I never ask for the sale until I've proven I can add value, and then I design something called the opt-in close. I really— I don't ask for the sale. My prospects opt in and I'm watching that. Obviously, I sometimes say, you know, I really, I very often say, I really look forward to working with you. I'd really love to earn your business, but not until I made it super clear that I'm going to add value. And 9 out of 10, they're opting in before I even get to that, right? Right. Okay, that's the opt-in close, and that's the ethics and the integrity and the value I want people to have in terms of them saying yes. I'm here to help. And if you don't, if you really can't help, walk away, because your customers don't have the bandwidth, the energy, the resources, the money to stomach a bad deal with all the challenges. That is sacrilegious. Please don't do that.

Yeah, you mentioned that in the talk too, was that in a time like now, the fundamentals, right, are even more important because people just don't have the time, the budget, like nothing. Right.

That's highway robbery. Don't do that. Don't steal a deal when there really wasn't supposed to be one.

Right.

And with, you know, the old days of natural NLP and posturing and stuff, you might get people to close. Those days are gone. And even if you do do it, that's blood money, not in today's world.

So a couple people here talking about actually very specific examples, right? So you're kind of going to be the pivot doctor here a little bit.

Please, please. I have found my purpose, guys. I'm good at this.

You're, you know, PhD, different kind of PhD, a pivot doc. But yeah, so let's see here. The first one is Nandini, right? What would a pivot look like for a custom catering and events company? And I know a lot of people in this space too, among the hardest hit. Right? A custom catering and events company. It caters to private and bulk multicultural parties, typically groups of 10 to 300, right? Obviously their core offering right now is not gonna, not gonna check many boxes, right? So how for them to find the essence to kind of move, like what would your advice be there?

Oh my gosh, are you kidding? I love this. Please follow up with me later. I'll rock this thing. We got this, right? I mean, it's a natural— the essence of what you do is make food for people. Just make food for people and serve it in individual boxes and go deliver it. Everybody needs you. I had to go to the store today in Tracy to go get lunch, right? So be a genius. Start making 300 meals for lunch every day and go tell— go on Facebook and go to the people around you, go to your neighborhood, put flyers on doors and and say, I can deliver and here's our protocol, we'll be having gloves, we're gonna do this, and you get a whole system around how beautifully clean and hygienic your food is gonna be and how you're gonna deliver it in a healthy way, and/or get a store on DoorDash and they'll pick up. Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? You're 90% already there, it's a small pivot, it's the smallest pivot you're gonna see. You should be rocking and rolling, but put your service hat on. Go serve people. Literally serve people. Come up with $7 meals and make 30% profit. Figure that out. Use DoorDash if you don't want to get the infrastructure of things and just focus on marketing. Oh my gosh, contact me. This is easy. I mean, you could actually launch a whole different model business with this right now. 'Cause you got the infrastructure if you can produce meals.

Right. So similarly, Leanna asked, my value-add was helping investors create emotional connections with their investments. Right now, not so important, I guess, right? The investor's got bigger fish to fry at the moment. So, you know, should I continue to educate people to help drive demand, or should I look for another proposition altogether?

So two bad assumptions there. I'm currently working with an investment team that is making about 4 or 5 different offers right now. We're buying companies right now. So there's a segment of the investment community that absolutely is not waiting, or, you know, they're busy, busy, busy. There's financial investing companies that, that give loans to businesses between $3 million and $300 million that are actively looking for deals because this is the time they shine, right? Bridge funding and things like that. So one idea could be find people who might in that sector of investment, right? So all investments are not, all investment groups are not the same. There are people that absolutely were investing now because even in a down market, there is a market. So that's one idea, right? So don't, please don't have the assumption that all investment community, the whole investment community is hiding. They're not. Find that group. The second idea is I would go back to, you might have to redesign your offer in reference to the entirety of what you did was to work with the investment community to create stories. And I'm assuming, to me, see, that doesn't make, I don't know exactly what you do. Maybe it's videos or what have you.

So that, yeah, value add was helping investors create emotion emotional connections to their investments.

Yeah, I'm sorry, man, that you can't— I can't even wrap my head around that, you know. Is that operationally, what is that? Is it stories? Is it video? And just say that because that's how people buy. There is no budget for we need to create emotional connection. There may be a budget for marketing dollars or for a video or a book or a podcast or what have you. So be more specific because once you're clear, you make that offer clear, you got to figure out who in today's world might might need that. I don't know. The third level where I'd want you to focus 80% of your effort in is what else are you good at doing as a person, and how can that help people today who might need help that they're willing to spend money for? That's the key, right? And I don't know. And you— and that's where you might want to spend your time. Again, it starts with who's spending money, And how can I help them? Well, what are people spending money on, right? I mean, I'm still going shopping at Costco. I'm still buying dog food. What else am I spending money on, right? I bought some games from Amazon, right? I bought a roller for my back with a pain from Amazon, but I'm buying products. Again, again, and I don't know the answer to that. And people are not spending money on too many things. So be careful about that space of possibility. But we don't have a choice. We have to go there. And I'm very respectful of living in the US and where we can, you know, turn on the spigot for $2 trillion. There's a lot of benefits and things like that. We have a lot of services, but it is a tough time. And I don't want to belittle that, but the space of possibility is Exactly, like, you know, what are companies spending money on? Like, companies are spending money on employee engagement. Maybe you can tell that I'm masterminding this, right? I didn't think about it before, but maybe companies are spending money on gamification of videos or service videos to keep employees engaged, right, and happy and connected and things like that. There may be a video of the day you can sell a company on, say, hey, this video of the day will go to everybody in your department. I don't know, but think about that because they want to create emotional connection with the employees while they're sheltering at home. This is the power of the mastermind. Get a group of people together and start thinking about ideas. You asking the question got me thinking and I'm still not clear about the essence of what you're good at. And start speaking in practical terms. Personally, don't take it bad, but what you said, emotional connection, that to me is not something I can wrap my head around. Because what you want, your decision, again, imagine your decision maker will want to know, are you going to create a video a day, a blog a day? That's it. You can say, you know, I create emotional videos, 30-second videos every day to engage your employees. Guess what? Managers might buy that.

So how, just generally speaking, I mean, in a lot of these cases, right, it's It's getting into the core of the essence, as you said, of what people do to figure out a pivot, right? And then before, after that, I do want to get in, there's a lot of questions on some of, you know, the more opportunity mindset here of what are the types of things that people, you know, are going to need and that kind of stuff. But, you know, is there a normal framework or just set of questions or something like that that you usually give to people to figure out, okay, what exactly is the essence of what you're doing? And to allow them to kind of, you know, plant that one foot in the ground and execute that pivot?

You know, a simple tool, that's why I ended up with the Simon Sinek's, the WHY framework of thinking. So go through that and try to figure out what your WHY is. Why do you exist, right? What is the value of what you do? And then do it for the company. What's the WHY for the company? That's a great, because you know, There's a lot that goes into that. So that's one answer. So use that because that's in the public domain, right? You can go to Simon Sinek's work and figure out, go through some exercises that he might have. Yep. My way of finding out my why is actually really simple. There's a couple of ways. Like, oh, your core essence, right? The core essence of who you are. Another way to say that is, what's your brand, right? Your true brand. And so one way to think about it is, who are the last 3 people that gave you a check and why do they give you a check, right? That's one way to look at it. And then you might have an answer there. Like if you really understand, why do they really do business with me compared to somebody else, one of my competitors? But a totally different way of maybe identifying your core strengths is, where's your energy at, right? But I'm a huge believer of emotion and energy because There's a fundamental truth of who we are. And if you look at the last few deals you closed or the last few customers you served, which relationships that really brought your energy where you said, I was going to use a different word, but damn, that was good. Right? It made me feel good. That was my best work. Right? And this is when I said create the space to reinvent yourself, right? It might take some thinking. It might take some thinking, but, but try that out and see what feels right in terms of your strength.

I have one more question for the pivot doctor here. So Greg asks, I think that's going to stick. How would you pivot a mid-career management job search platform, I'm assuming, to fit the current environment? Any ideas?

See, you know what mid-level managers have, and that I sort of resonate with it, right? Except that I've been unemployable. I've not had a job for decades because nobody knows what to do with me. So I'm gonna consult it. My mother said, ah, I don't know what to do with you, you know, nobody like me neither. So I've consulted, boom, you know. But what you do have as a mid-level manager is you've got experience, right? You've got management experience, you've got business experience. Experience. And you should have also one or two domain, domains that you worked in, domain experience. So I would hash those out and then figure out who needs that. In the Bay Area, we have something called LinkSV.com. You can go to LinkSV.com and check them out because they have a list and they can— you can very easily get to which companies got funded in specific domains with keyword searches and areas, sectors, and then maybe— and all their leaders are listed there on LinkedIn. You can reach out to people and say, hey guys, do you need this person or somebody with this experience? Don't sell your resume, but sell your capacity to act. Sell your ability to solve problems or leads, because a lot of these startup guys are funded and the people running them have zero experience.

Yeah, they're very, very, they're very tactical. And I think times like now, more so than ever, is when you, you need kind of your traditional management, right?

And, and experience, right? And now, yeah, force multiplies because he says, guys, I can keep you in the swim lanes. I've been through this, right? I can keep in the swim lanes. I can accelerate your growth. I can, and I can avoid you making mistakes, zigging and zagging. Because I've had experience. You hold on to the vision, you hold it where you want to go, I'll get you there faster, right? And this takes confidence, right? This takes— because, and once you anchor on your strengths of who you are, please, you are not your title. You are a beautiful divine creature with tremendous capacity to create and invent and design from nothing, right? Be that. Yep.

So I'm going to wrap up here, and I know there's a lot of questions that we didn't get to. Tons of questions, which, which, you know, would suggest that people liked what you were talking about, Paul. I liked what you were talking about.

I also liked what I was talking about.

Just following the, following the, the indicators here, right? Um, but there were, there were obviously a lot of questions related to you know, you had a couple of examples, right? So you said like employee engagement, right? Like there's gonna be the market. It's a different market, still a market people are buying. Like what, you know, are there other examples of just areas that you think, you know, are now becoming, you know, sort of these hotspots where the market has been moving for people? Because I also think, you know, that there's, there's has been over 100 people on this line the whole time. Everybody's got different types of companies. Um, you know, if they could see some of those trends, maybe, uh, it might, it might help them, uh, you know, use the Pivot Doctor's advice to see where they may, they may want to.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. Hey, but before I go there, can you flip, uh, the last slide of the presentation back on? It has my contact information. I don't know if that's appropriate, because if there are a lot of questions, I'd like people to just reach out to me. All right. Yeah. And then The last, there should be one more. Yeah, there we go. Okay, that's a good way to, that's how you can find me. Oh my gosh, my personal cell phone is there.

So it's gonna, and well, I'm gonna, I'll shoot this off in the, uh, everybody's gonna get, and this has been a common question as well, which again is not a terrible indicator as to how, uh, how informative it was. A lot of people have been asking if they're going to get the, the video. Yes, uh, we will be sending the video as well.

Awesome.

As long as you didn't register with a fake email or something, uh, you'll get the video in your real email account, but Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, so, yeah, so, you know, just look at the market today, right? If everybody's sheltering at home, you've got people that are 6.5 million people that applied for unemployment. We know, and it's not being talked about enough, that when the market comes back, I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be the same market. We're gonna act differently, right? So we, I mean, you'll listen to this video, I mean, you've listened to this webinar, You're already taking proactive action. I think it's a huge opportunity to create a different future. And create a future anchored in what's real. Go back to the fundamentals. This is what's working. Keep people safe. Keep people self-expressed. They're stuck at home. Even when they come back, they wanna be able to do things, but they'll have to do it carefully. I don't think we're gonna walk around hugging people for quite a while, right? But still, you know, people will not be able to travel, but they might want to experience things. So put yourself in your customer's bubble 6 months down the road, right? And start figuring out— so I think on-site restaurants, it'll take a while for them to really bounce back. I think delivery services are gonna take off. I think employees are gonna stay at home more than go back to the offices. I think there's gonna be a huge shakeup with employee management skills, coaching, helping companies keep their employees engaged. I think there's gonna be huge demand in logistics and delivery, right? I don't think there's gonna be much demand for air travel and cruise ships anymore. I think you can buy cruise ships for a song in the future, right? What's gonna happen to all the hotel spaces? I think there may be opportunities there to convert them Apartments and rentals, cheap rentals. Yeah. So the— my brain keeps going really crazy about all the opportunities that I'm seeing in the future. And the future is not going to be like the past. We're going to be a much more educated customer base, right? And self-directed customer base. And they'll be wanting to— I think there'll be greater sense of independence. So if you can offer services at-home coaching programs, helping people define and live quality lives by themselves, where there's much more independence because they realize, oh shit, man, I gotta sort of be a sort of prepper wherever I go because this shit can happen anytime. What's the next virus gonna look like? What's the next war gonna look like? So I think there's huge opportunities, but the way you identify them is by thinking about what do, when people are isolated at home or gonna spend more time by themselves and not want to travel to the office, What will they need? So some of the types of investments we are making through the private equity company is beer. People will drink beer. Cannabis, they're gonna smoke cannabis. Home delivery, they're gonna do home delivery. Logistics, they're gonna do logistics. Equipment, personal training equipment, they're gonna need that as a simple example, right? One of my clients is, like I said, employee engagement, right? We're talking, you know, voice technology for the enterprise because now you have people in the enterprise, enterprise employees at home. They don't have the business analyst down the road. They don't have large printer, you know, color printers to do reports and look at them. They want to just ask a question because they're talking to Siri and Alexa the rest of the day.

Right. I think even Like my wife, for example, right? She loves to do yoga and she was going to a local yoga studio and obviously that's not going to happen anytime soon, right? And she was paying a monthly subscription. And yes, there are other yoga studio, you know, live online things through all these different services. But no, like this yoga studio just started doing their live yoga things on Zoom. And yeah, my wife hasn't even thought about canceling her subscription to the monthly yoga studio, right? Because the essence is not that, oh, it's, it's online yoga. No, anybody could do that. It's that, no, this— it's this instructor that I love, and it's—

let me take that back. Let me take that, Jonathan. Great, great feedback. Let me take that back to what I said. Yeah, your wife has trust and rapport with that studio, right? Yep. Right. Remember the slide? She has the rapport, she has the trust, she likes those people. And why, why change that? She's just taking it online. But that's the leadership the yoga studio is offering. These are the fundamentals. Thank you for that. These are the fundamentals that will not change.

Awesome. Well, the feedback's been great in the chat, and yeah, I learned a lot there too, Paul. Thank you so much for that. Thank you everyone for joining. It was great answering your questions too. As I said, if you are going to receive a video copy of this as well, if you If you want to meet Paul again, I can't say more positive things about him. Well, I can. Again, he's one of the top rated mentors and FI always uses a 360-degree. Every single local leader and every single founder rates every single mentor every single time they come in to mentor in every cohort. And if they suck, we can see it and they don't come back and Paul doesn't suck. So there's my— that's my official endorsement. Paul doesn't suck.

Yeah. Hey, thank you. And guys, hey, I'm available to help. Please go to the CRO as a Service, Chief Revenue Officer as a Service site. It's my services page, croaas.com. And listen, I've got programs designed for individuals and companies, so I'm here to help. And please remember, if— don't suffer. Ask me a question. I literally— I take calls all the time. Right, just again, don't suffer. This is very personal for you and your customers. Let's hold hands together and support each other through this process. I keep paying it forward, and you please, you do the same.

Awesome. All right, well, again, thanks everyone for joining. You'll receive that video within about next 24 to 48 hours. We just got to render it and all that good stuff. But we have also a lot more online events coming up. You can see them either at fi.co/events or onlinestartupevents.com. We bought that for $9 about 2 weeks ago. So there you go again, just going to where the market is, right? So onlinestartupevents.com, we were able to buy really quickly and just start putting events up there because that's where the market's going. That's where our customers want to be. All right. Thanks everybody. Have a good evening, afternoon, or morning wherever you are. And I hope we'll see you soon.

Bye, guys. Take care. All the best.