Unfiltered Ep. 5: Reviewing Transportation Ideas, Med-Tech Startups & More

Welcome to our 5th episode of the Unfiltered Podcast. I'm Rachel Shepherd, Global Marketing Manager here at Founder Institute. I'm joined here by Ryan Micheletti and Mike Supravici. You guys want to introduce yourselves?

Hi everyone, I'm Mike, commonly referred to as Coach Mike these days.

Coach Mike?

I lead the Alumni Success Group here at the Founder Institute, and our role is to help all of our companies that finish a program take their business to the next level. And we do that in a variety of different ways: introductions to the network, other alumni programs, and all of the above.

Hey everyone, my name is Ryan Micheletti and I'm Director of Global Operations for the Founder Institute. Although I don't have as cool of a nickname as Mike, I really love working here and working with all the different companies and ideas that we see across each city we operate the program in. We're excited to get going and see what company ideas you have today.

Alright, so we're going to go through all of the startup ideas that we've received. Thank you to everyone who submitted their ideas. And we're going to give some honest feedback. A warning: it's going to be brutal, direct, and unfiltered. Let's get started. Matt from Melbourne says, "My company, Array, is developing a property management software solution for the independent living retirement sector to help staff reduce their manual paper-based tasks." tasks. Our competitive advantage is that we have written the front end in a language they understand and have cut out all unnecessary features to make it easy to use.

I'll jump in here first. Um, first, I, I like the description. I, you know, it's pretty clear to me what you do. This is a huge market opportunity. I mean, baby boomers— and obviously you're in Melbourne, so it's a little bit different, um, you know, there probably is a baby boomer generation for you, but Massive market, but I don't think your competitive advantage is based on a feature of making it really simple, right? Anyone can go in and do that. That's not a real competitive advantage. This needs to be something around like your go-to-market strategy, right? How, like, because this is a growing market and there's also a lot of competition, how are you going to outmaneuver them and capture a lot of these independent living facilities as customers? So I think really your secret sauce and competitive advantage should be built into your go-to-market strategy.

Yeah, I'll say careful with the real estate, dropping the real estate in there. That's actually kind of confusing. The way I understand your pitch, and again, this is just from hearing it, is that you're more or less managing, you know, these retirement homes and things like that. There's some sort of like SaaS type of platform that helps manage these retirement homes. And I do agree with Ryan that this is a big market opportunity. The hardest part here is more about just how do you basically get them to use it. You're right that a big part of it is making sure that the people that work there and everybody that's involved in the entire value chain can use it, but just getting them to adopt it is also very important, right? Like, so I would say like, think more in terms of return on investment on this for the customer versus like the actual product. If they're spending all this time on paper-based stuff, then you should be able to build a case that by doing it digitally, it's much faster. Now, it's a pretty tricky case to make because that would require you to basically encourage them to lay off employees that are basically pushing the stuff manually. And so that's a kind of a delicate dance that you basically have to play. But ultimately, you know, it still comes down to return on investment. So what I would do with your first customer or potential customer that you're piloting, I would try to go in there and before you even try to sell them something, I wouldn't even ask them to sell them something. I was like, can I just like, you know, try to do a return on investment analysis, right? So understand exactly what it is. And then once you're in the account, you can start talking to people figure out exactly, okay, this is how much time Becky is using to go and move files from one place to another. This is what's involved in the value chain and things like that. Try to kind of add that up in terms of a cost dollar amount, and then you can basically say, okay, well, our software costs this. Because it might be that your software— you might be underpricing your software, which is usually the case in these types of operations. Um, and so just, just think about that as the next step.

Okay. So next step is ROI analysis for Matt. All right. Moving on. Ryan from Quebec says, my company Lightning Futures Exchange is developing an anonymous and decentralized futures exchange to help individuals speculate on the price of assets or the outcome of any event. The exchange is a protocol, so there are no doors to kick down and no off switch. Our competitive advantage is we've figured out an algorithm that allows traders to safely and anonymously perform these trades.

So it's the— is the point of this to basically make money? All right, like, is this like a trading kind of like platform? And if so, okay, that's cool. What's the— just, you probably want to explain kind of like the value of like the entire— like why, why it's important that it's decentralized, why it's important that it's anonymous. Like, I think one of the challenges that we see a lot, particularly with founders that are in this kind of space let's call it like the blockchain space and things like that, is that they kind of start with the tech and then they kind of work backwards to the problem instead of going with the problem and trying to figure out if the blockchain or whatever makes sense. Like, so is what's the value of it being decentralized? All usually decentralized is bad, right, from a user experience perspective, not from a necessarily from a data management perspective, because when it's decentralized, there's just more steps so that the user experience is a lot slower. But it can— if it in some cases is worth it because of the value that it can create. So, uh, I don't know, if I were you, what I would do is I would try to figure out kind of like, I would start with either the problem or really just like the opportunity. I think this is more actually, not— I think about it more, more of like an opportunity like that you're trying to go after. Like, and what is it exactly that, that is trading? Is it, is it, you know, was it crypto assets? Is it other type of financial products? What— or is this just kind of like a betting platform to think, oh, this thing is going to go up and this is not? I don't really know what that is. So that was the first place where I would start. And then you can kind of actually build out a better pitch for this entire value prop, I think.

Yeah. You know, looking at what your competitive advantage is, you know, you mentioned that you allow them, traders, to safely and anonymously perform these trades. But I mean, like, why does that matter? Like, what— you have to sort of explain, like, what is important about that? And is it so compelling that people would rather use your platform, which is less validated than, let's say, using other futures exchanges that already exist? Exist. So it's almost like, yes, you're using cool new technology, but you have to really drive home like the value and why that matters, um, especially in, in a, you know, quick elevator pitch like this. I also think that, you know, I think you're probably like a technical, uh, founder, which is great, especially for something like this. You know, talk about the business model. How do you make money? Like, it's kind of like futures is, is a huge market. Anyone who, who has a little bit of experience knows that. So, you know, the market size and all of that, it would would kind of come into play a little bit later. But, you know, how do you, how do you make money and why is this a big opportunity?

All right, awesome. Moving on. Bob from Cincinnati says, my company Kenko Health is developing a mobile web-based solution to help families and elder care facilities better monitor the health and safety of older and disabled individuals. Our competitive advantage is our wearable medical devices, aggregated medical history, and prescription monitoring to give caregivers a real-time view of their patients' status.

So kind of interesting, another, you know, elderly care health tech type play. Um, this is more focused on patient care, um, which, which I think is, is also, you know, a growing industry. Um, you know, it— I'd be curious to learn a little bit more about like what kind of where you're at, what the usage is of this. Um, there's tons of monitoring devices out there, and, and so like, you know, getting real-time view, that's kind of standard with this. So I, I almost like— I almost feel like, is there something more? Like, is there something else that, that you're doing that really sets you apart to make you 10 times better than other wearable medical devices out there. Prescription monitoring, that's big. There's some solutions out there, you know, but it's— I kind of see this as, um, are you doing prescription monitoring or are you doing sort of vital monitoring, um, you know, and kind of focusing on, on one as your initial go-to-market.

Yeah, the monitoring is key here. And also, uh, there's this other thing that's key, it's called the FDA, and you're probably going to have to go through that if you're going go down that path, right? And that's okay. You know, the FDA is not— is not— is also an opportunity, right? Because if you can actually get through the FDA, that creates a pretty nice moat around your business and makes it actually kind of hard to copy. But you have to have something that, you know, it makes sense for you to go down that path, and you have to raise a lot of money to be able to go through it. So look, I mean, um, I agree with Ryan on the use case. You know, monitoring is too broad. I think for you to become like the default brand in monitoring in the health tech space, you basically have to own one category and do that really, really well. You know, one way to kind of get around the FDA and start to create some revenue right away and not have to deal with that is to go into these patient care facilities and deal with like, you know, like patients that are like leaving the site and premise and things like that. And you could use that, do some, you know, some, some, some sort of GPS type sensor. And then that could help some of these facilities, you know, better, better manage it, maybe even try to get some revenue. And that maybe it helps you create the next feature, which is like, you know, vitals that are actually— they can go to the doctor or something like that, right? So that's number one. Number two, really think through— you should map out the entire, like, like, value chain and how you make money. Um, you know, it's likely that the way you actually make money is from insurance companies. And so in a way, you're kind of solving their problems, and you're also solving the clinic's problems to a certain extent. So you kind of have to map out what that is, because if the— if those aren't in alignment, then you will have a hard time making the sale, right? Because you gotta get the influencers on board. So possibly elderly care facilities, possibly doctors. And then on top of that, you have to get the hospital groups, the CEOs, the COOs, and things like that, right? That's a whole different thing that they care about. And then the entire reimbursement structure and how that works. And is there a medical code for that, right? So just map that out and try to understand kind of where to start.

All right, awesome. Next up, Ismael from DACA says, VIOS is a healthcare platform that connects patients to private practice doctors for on-demand medical consultation in person at the doctor's office. It's a connectivity tool that uses geofencing to tell patients when a specialist is in the office, along with their qualifications and testimonials. We'll connect the patient with their chosen doctor and let the patient leave a post-appointment rating.

So there's a lot of companies in the space trying to do this. Um, there hasn't been a company that has broken out, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, but it's probably more really a more good thing for you. What I would try to test out with this problem, with this, with this essentially this marketplace or whatever, however you want to look at it is, is that does the geofencing even matter? You know, I mean, if you're, if you could argue that you could do this over video and things like that, you know, I don't, I don't have a super granular understanding of the healthcare system in DACA and how it works. But if the problem with geofencing is you're essentially— you, it's going to restrict your growth, right? Because if somebody opens the product and they don't have anything in their area, then they will have a really bad experience and in turn take their, your app off their phone, right? And so it's really— that's why it's really difficult for any hyperlocal business or product to actually scale, because it's just really hard to provide this incredibly good experience. The one way people have been hacking around this is to kind of own like an area, like own like a city, for example, and make sure that that's really well populated. Once that works, replicate that playbook to another city. Uber is a classic example of this. But, um, you know, it's just difficult, right? And so what I would do if I were you is, is, is really think, uh, try to validate if the geofencing is really important, right? And so the way you do that is you try to either Use advertisements, or you can actually literally talk to people or possibly doctors. And don't lead with the questions like, how important is geofencing? Or something like that, because they're going to be like, oh, it's important, it's very important. But a good survey question says like, you know, how many, uh, how often do you go to a, a doctor within a 30-mile radius? Or whatever. That way you can kind of understand how valuable that, that, that information is.

Yeah, and I think you should also be very clear as to who your customer is in this equation, right? Because like The way that this is positioned, it looks like the value is for the consumer to book an appointment on demand with the doctor, right? But I mean, is that— but if the consumer is not paying, if the doctor's office is paying, then you're really creating a service for the doctor's office. And if that is the case, then do the doctors have a problem with like excess time that they're sitting around their doctor's office without patients? So you wanna make sure that whatever you're building is solving the problem for the customer or the person who's actually paying you for the service. And something tells me, you know, if DACA's medical system is anything like the US's, you know, doctors don't have enough time in the day and most of the time they're overbooked, not underbooked. And this seems to be a solution that would help a doctor's office gain more customers and more appointments. So I'm not exactly sure if they're feeling the pain to pay for this, but if you're gonna charge a consumer and maybe there's some kind of like specialized doctor's offices that are smaller practices and private practices, then I actually kind of like going in that direction 'cause now you're getting a little bit more niche. Maybe this is a premium product where it's like for like the wealthy people in DACA who wanna pay a super premium to like get this like expert niche specialist on demand. And I think that that could be an interesting go-to-market strategy for you.

Awesome. Okay, Elias from Buffalo says, my company Cubed Root is developing an indoor farm incubator to help urban farmers maximize their efficiency and profitability by minimizing all overhead costs and barriers to entry. We provide rentable indoor plots outfitted with low-cost vertical hydroponic units in a warehouse setting, and we utilize a coworking business model.

So there's a lot of moving parts to this, so I just wanna make sure I, I understand this correctly, but it sounds like You know, you basically are getting a warehouse, you've got these indoor plots as you're calling it, or like, you know, coworking space for like the plants to grow, and you're renting that out to urban farmers. So they can basically have sort of like this renting your farm to create produce. So, you know, at the high level, I think it's kind of interesting. I would put in some data here that suggests that there's a problem for this, like, How many urban farmers are there that like are actually looking for like a lot of extra space where they'd go out and they'd rent it? Maybe it's something where like you have people who maybe they're not like, you know, urban farmers in the sense of like they're not making a business out of it, but they're just consumers who want to do this, but they don't have space in their apartment, but they'd be willing to pay 50 or 100 bucks a month to like rent out like some dirt in some warehouse around the corner from them and like grow some tomatoes. So, like, kind of figuring out, like, you know, the mechanics behind it and the economics, I think, would help provide some clarity. And then also really dialing in and using some data information that shows that, you know, there are urban farmers who want to pay for these extra indoor plots, as you call them.

It takes just as much effort for you to build a small business as it takes for you to build a big business. You know, Elon Musk works just as many hours as the local restaurant owner down the street from you in Buffalo. And so what I would encourage you to do with this idea or this business is to think big, right? Because, you know, honestly, the probability of success is the same, and yet the outcome could be much larger. I think you can, you know, so how do you think big with this? You know, this is your company, not mine, but, you know, it's like maybe creating a movement, right, around this idea of people like growing their own food, right? Or getting food that they've grown somehow and it's fresh and things like that. And that way, like, you know, you're basically making an entire like change in like society and things like that, right? Versus just like, there's like this, you know, like, you know, a warehouse where, you know, just some people locally can do it. You know, we've seen some examples, although, you know, WeWork is like kind of a bad example from like a PR perspective, but you can tell that they've at least been able to scale to a certain extent. But it's a difficult, it's a difficult, it's a difficult, it's a difficult business, right? Mostly because, you know, the costs are so fixed. Like, I don't know how much it costs WeWork to get a desk, but it could be like $300 or $400. That's fixed. Like, it just is. Yeah, they can charge $800 for it or whatever, but it's still fixed, right? And so with this thing is like, how can this like— think, think like, how can this scale, right, beyond just kind of like this warehouse and this huge real estate play and you know, like replacing the community garden this way, right? Can you make this more of a thing that like consumers want maybe more than just the urban farmers, right? Even if you're going after a different demographic like cannabis or something like that, you still want to go after the largest amount of people that can do this, right? So that you can actually build a very large, very scalable business. And right now, I worry that this can be a small-ish business that would be very difficult for you to run just because of like just the economics of it, you know, of how you're thinking about the unit economics on this product.

All right, awesome. Okay, Ben from Atlanta says, my company Dynamic Keyboard is developing a lightweight electronic musical keyboard under 100 pounds for pianists. With the touch and feel of a full-size grand piano. It features real-time software simulation of a piano action for each key. Our second product will provide a grand piano with an electronic action to offer greater sensitivity and dynamic range, as well as keystroke recording and playback.

When you say under 100 pounds, it doesn't sound lightweight. Yeah, that's my first reaction too. So that's the number one thing, you know, I'm not like, you know, I never played music, so I'm gonna kind of default to Ryan on this. As with the previous idea, if you can build a brand around like learning music, then I can kind of buy how this can get big because you could argue that the piano is a very good starting point for like learning music, right? So I would say with you, just kind of think like that and think think bigger with this, right? And then also kind of talk a little bit about the differentiator, right? Like, assume you're talking to, like, someone like me who has, like, no music education whatsoever. And so when you're telling me about this piano keyboard and I'm like, well, yeah, but there's all these other piano keyboards at, like, Target or whatever, like, what's the difference here? And they can, like, got the little songs and they can teach me how to do it, right? Like, what's the main thing? It can't be just, like, feel, because, like, someone like me wouldn't understand, right? And so you want to say like, okay, well it does this, this and that, and it helps you kind of put your fingers in the right place or something. I don't know. You know, you know what I mean? Something like that. Brian?

Yeah. You know, so, so I have a background in music as well and I thought the exact same thing. Under 100 pounds makes it sound heavy as shit. I mean, my, my daughter has a keyboard and she's 2 years old and it's like 20 pounds. So that thing is massive. I couldn't put that in a backpack and go to Central Park and play it if I wanted to. And so I think like, you have to— there's a little bit of a positioning thing here where maybe what you're building is not coming across correctly. This also seems pretty niche. I know there's a lot of people that play piano, but it almost seems like this is for like pretty serious pianists. And I think that if you're going after that market, like maybe they would love it. Maybe they're, you know, you can kind of create this community around it where it's like, hey, like I really want to play the grand piano, but I can't haul that thing out to Central Park. right? But I can roll this thing up and throw in my backpack, and then all of a sudden, like, I'm like jamming and it's like this grand piano in, in, you know, the middle of the forest or wherever. And so I do think that there's, there's some value there, and you could probably, if that is the case, you could probably create some interesting content, um, and videos around that as like a way to kind of, you know, tap into the market and sell. Um, but, you know, so I— but you just have to be a little bit more clear on what the, what the actual product does and the, the value there. I don't know what your costs are to develop this, but this seems like a pretty capital-intensive business. And so I think with any kind of hardware, it's important to kind of outline the market size, because maybe the market size for people that want portable pianos is massive, but I wouldn't necessarily know that. And so my overall thought is like, this could be really cool and niche, but you want to define the market a little bit more, the business opportunity.

I encourage you to think around like experiences and what the experience is. Okay. A very good role model for you that's not in your space but is in a space that's relatively competitive is like Peloton, right? Like, okay, it's a bike, right? There's a ton of bikes and there's been bikes for 50 years, you know, but what did they do, right? They created this incredible experience with like the live as well as asynchronous and do it on your own, whatever. So how do you think big, right? Like, you're gonna be like the Peloton of music, or like people that play music. There's a lot of people that like want to just play music for fun, right? And have had music education. And maybe you lead with this keyboard, right? And that's how you get in, and that's how this has an actual potential for you to build $100 million in revenue type business. And that's the level where you like, you kind of how you should think about this business. How can I build something at that scale? Because like, as I said, like, you're gonna put just as much time into doing this as you would in another company that's like smaller, and the risks are no different. Because if you think about it, at their core, a business is a collection of people and contracts, and that's it, right? And people are unpredictable. You may be predictable, but you may bring somebody on, you may take on an investor that's like, you know, there's all sorts of things that can go wrong. So the The probability of failure for a small business is basically just as high as for like a high-growth startup that's designed to become a multi-billion-dollar publicly traded company in 10 years or less, right? Just like Peloton, right? And so think big, right? How can you be like the Peloton of music, of learning how to play music?

Yeah, I love that. I love that analogy.

I will also weigh in here because I do play the piano and I like this idea of going for maybe be somebody who's more of an urban customer. So the, the feel of a grand piano is super important, but how many people have access to a grand piano or even used to that to begin with, right? Um, I couldn't lift a piano that's under 100— that's 100 pounds, um, and carry it around. So that's important to note. And I think that would be, um, making, making it so that a lot of people couldn't carry it around. But I do like the idea of an urban customer. Part of the reason I don't have a piano in my house right now is because I don't have a way to get it in. And so, and so, and like, and I live in a 900-square-foot house because we live in the Bay Area. So it's important to understand your customer. And I think I totally agree with both of them. Just think about ways that you can scale and make maybe piano playing much more accessible for a lot of people who want to learn to play the piano or who know how to play the piano but can't get a large heavy piano in their home. And yet it's something that's better scaled and maybe a much better experience than the keyboard I can go pick up at Target, like Mike said. So awesome. Okay, moving on. Shaquille from DACA says, my company Chronico is developing an AI-based platform to assess, monitor, and prevent chronic health conditions. The unique feature of Chronico is that it assesses and alerts users if they are vulnerable to any flare-ups in the future.

Lots of health tech in DACA today. I love it. Um, well, so, you know, AI-based platform, I have no idea what that is, right? I mean, is this like mobile monitoring? Like, you know, I could kind of make some assumptions here, but you don't want me to make assumptions. You want me to be super clear. So I, I actually don't really know how this works. Um, you know, if it's just an AI-based platform to assess, monitor, and prevent chronic health conditions. Um, how does it, how does it do that, right? Just because you put AI there doesn't mean that, you know, that's gonna really be like the, the secret sauce to solve the chronic health condition problem. So I, I would get a little bit more specific. If you go to fi.co/madlibs, there's a really, really good one-sentence pitch format that I, I would recommend you kind of use for this, to just kind of be a little bit more specific with with the product you're building. And then, you know, you go on to list some unique features like assessments and alerts if they're vulnerable to any flare-ups. So it looks like there might be like a specific type of chronic health condition that you could start with, right? And if you could really like dominate and capture that market, whatever, whatever that is, I think it could be compelling rather than trying to solve all chronic health conditions at the same time. Like start with one and if you can nail it and get super credibility there, then Maybe the expansion is to then go on to other types of chronic illnesses that, that need to be monitored as well.

And build it on, on top of a use case that can actually be monitored. I mean, this is a really difficult problem that you're trying to solve, right? Because you've got, so, you know, with startups, you know, you can only, you're only basically allowed one miracle. Like if one miracle, you know, works, you might be able to overcome. If there's like 3 or 4 different miracles that you have to overcome, then there's just no way the startup is gonna work. So in your case, it's like, Okay, I gotta get the data. Where am I gonna get the data from, right, to even know? Then the consumer might actually have to input that data, like, or might have to do that information. That's not— then the miracle, the AI can actually accurately predict when this is going to happen. It's like third miracle, right? Like, there's just like too many miracles in this one. So I would like try to boil it down to like one miracle that you can do, and then you might be on to something. I think, um, to, to, to kind of to resolve some of this. So start on a use case around a chronic condition that can potentially be tracked. So maybe you start with carpal tunnel, right, that a lot of people have. People are on their computers a lot. This is how they get it. So you can— I guess, I mean, I'm just making this up, I don't even know if it's true, but you can argue a case that the camera can go and watch what's going on and how much you're typing, and based on that, it can send like a notification on this, or something's going to happen. And then, you know, then you can— and that could work, right? Or you might be able to plug it into Apple Health, assuming that the person is actually using Apple Health, which is a big thing. Then you can actually kind of maybe take some of that data. But this is a really difficult problem to solve, right? You know, prevention is hard for a lot of reasons, right? Because one, you have to change behavior, which is hard to do. Not that you shouldn't try to do it, it's just hard to do. Um, and so, you know, maybe you try to— in your case, I would actually take a step back. Like, the overall vision to be the, the prediction, like the preventative medicine, uh, the default preventative medicine platform for chronic diseases is, is pretty nice. It's a big vision. But I would go back and try to start with a use case that could actually— like, that's big enough that could actually— you can actually implement on. Right. So think about behavior that people are doing and think about what's around them so that you can actually get the information.

Awesome. Brian from St. Louis says our company Unleashed is developing a prop tech platform to connect prospective tenants and multifamily operators. We provide short-term lease options to a transient generation of renters in collaboration with operators rather than disruption. We give the tenants the flexibility they want while maximizing rent premiums for the operators in true collaboration.

Well, so, you know, when I, when I hear multifamily, I think of like duplexes or things like that, not like apartments. And I think if, you know, you say the transient generation, you know, the transients are probably looking for apartments more than multifamily houses. Multifamily houses would be, you know, I would assume like smaller families that like can't afford to buy a house yet, but they're like working locally and they're probably not very transient. So I would almost figure out like, you know, can you put in like some information here that shows why the transient generation, who's your go-to-market customer here, why they're— why are they transient? And then show some information that they're interested in these multifamily homes. And if it's not, you know, if maybe multifamily is like the wrong word there, then I would fix that to be clear. But to me, it doesn't seem like you really have like the right kind of, you know, a fit with the product.

So careful with like the buzzwords and with making up words as well, just because, you know, you might talk to people that don't understand what you're doing, and then you don't get your message across, which means that you won't get an additional question or potentially a meeting. So you're better off kind of being on the safe side and not making this salesy, right? You want to just be very direct about what you do. Okay, as far as the actual company and the business, start on one side of the market with this, right? Either you start with the landlords or however you describe them— I forgot the actual term you used— or you start with the renters, all right? And see if you can solve the problem from their perspective, right? So if the landlords are not getting enough tenants, then, you know, try to go get him some tenants. Same thing with the other, with the other land, with the, with the other way around. This is a product that should technically be built without a product initially. Like, you should be facilitating these transactions manually, kind of running the entire process manually, and kind of figuring out end to end what's the issue and what the, what's the optimal and best experience. And when you can no longer facilitate these transactions manually, then you hire an intern and you have the intern help you do that. And then when the intern breaks, then you go and add a little bit of tech to go and make sure that the intern can do their job a little bit better. And then when that breaks, then you go out and build a little bit more tech, right? So that's how you want to kind of build out this entire, like, you know, uh, marketplace and kind of figuring out if there's an actual need there as well.

Alright, awesome. Well, that was our last idea for today. Thank you to everyone who submitted their ideas, and we'll see you guys next time.

Alright, take care.