Universe Signals - Mindstorm Podcast Video Episode

Hi there, welcome to Mindstorm, the podcast about awakened and aware entrepreneurship. My name is Adeo Ressi, I'm CEO of the Founder Institute. I'm joined here by Josh.

Hi everybody, I'm Josh Whitton, founder of makesoil.org.

We try and talk about real things that don't normally get discussed when it comes to entrepreneurship. And we're gonna go on the more unusual side of topics today to be talking about listening to signs from the universe about what you should do or the direction that you might want to go in. And, and, you know, signs from the universe is probably a term that may not resonate with everyone who's listening. So another way is sort of cues from the world around you that you might be doing something right or you might be doing something wrong.

Feedback.

Feedback, you know, force. You can have positive force that pulls you or negative force that pushes you away from something. So a lot of times as human beings, especially as entrepreneurs, you get an idea in your head and you're like, I'm going over there. And the universe, so to speak, uh, this sort of feedback mechanism might be saying no, right? Like, no, no, no. And then your job a lot of the time is to navigate, you know, is that feedback that I should stop? Maybe it's feedback that I should work harder. And interpreting the signals into Action is really challenging, and that's why I wanted to talk about it. Now, you said you're feeling kind of blank on this subject today.

Well, I am feeling a bit blank on the subject today, but it is quite often a part of my life and is actually part of my normal way of navigating reality. So even in my feeling flat about it, I I think I can still draw on something here.

Well, the reason I brought that up is because I think I was like, well, let's jump into it and something will come to you. And that was a feeling that I had with no absolute guidance. There was no, is this right or is this wrong? It was just like my gut feeling. I'm like, I bet if we got started, something amazing will flow. And that was again, It made no sense, right? A lot of times the feedback you're getting, the conversation you have, is senseless, right? It doesn't— logically, it's kind of useless, right? If you try and apply logic, well, what— why did you have that feeling? I can't explain it. So a lot of times the feedback you're getting is completely illogical.

Yes. Okay, so let's back up a little bit here because we might be leaving some people behind. The whole reason that we're going down this path is because, in our experience, as two well-reasoned guys with tech backgrounds, right, we know how to write code, we know what logic is, blah blah blah, and yet we've had an experience of a larger intelligence at work in the world, things happening, coincidences that happen so intensely that it just defies probabilities. So that's why you've got— that's a little background. You got two guys with that conviction who want to optimize this connection with whatever this larger force is, right?

Or communication. So I would— so I think that you used a phrase that I now use all the time in this podcast called communication with reality. And it's not a one-way communication, but it's a two-way communication. And What I've learned with that phrase and thinking through it is that this dialogue you have can be very interesting. Like, you might get feedback from the universe that going one way is wrong, but you could still go that way if you want, right? And so that your response to that feedback could be like, no, I'm gonna still go that way.

Yeah.

Now, the universe, so to speak, this larger intelligence, may throw another obstacle in your way, and you can still go through that as well.

So, for instance, this morning, and you said off camera you think I'm a bit off lately, but this morning I was also off. Like, I had this— I told— there's this co-project we have that I said was my third priority, and I'd get around to it today. And whatever my first and second priorities were, man, they kicked my butt. I got nowhere with them. You know what? I beat my head against some— weird neuroscience equipment that I've been messing with because I just— I've got this curiosity about something. And 3 hours later, I had nothing to show for it, you know? Like, I'd plug it in, and this thing and this thing in, and I'd get one result on the screen, and I'm like, okay, this is what we know. These 3 pieces work together. And then I plugged them in, 10 minutes later, I was getting completely non-deterministic behavior. And I had the thought during it, this is just not what you're supposed to be working on. But I kept— I did not let go. But, you know, the dog is still hanging on to the car bumper or whatever. And it was a very unsatisfying morning.

Well, you know, so, so it was the opposite of flow, right? So, so great case in point, right? And meanwhile, there was very little things that we had talked about that I'm sure if you did would be super fulfilling, probably important and timely. Yeah, relating to the podcast, man. So, so, so, but that's a great example, right? And I think we all experience this where we're like, wow, there's something I need to do. You start doing it, nothing works. It's almost like universally telling you to stop, and yet because we're stubborn or we put our logical mind on— and what I've been finding lately that's really been effective for my mental well-being and, and actual productivity is that what I would call an overall patience. And what that means is like, let's use your morning example. Okay, I'm working on this thing, it's not working out. Okay, part of me has this urgency that I want to work on it, I want to see results. The reality is I'm working on it, I'm not getting results. So I have to be patient Right, step back from what I want and say maybe there's a reason right now it's not working. Maybe I should come back to it later and then say, what should I be doing right now? A lot of times something fills that void, that void created by the patience, and is much more productive. And in fact, if I think about this, I'll give you— I can give hundreds of examples actually.

Let's finish with this example first because you just made me think of something, which is When I was wondering if I— I had already come up with a false premise, which was I needed to figure this thing out by tonight so I could give this equipment back to this person so I could hop a flight tonight. Okay, but if I really stopped, if I were to take this as a conversation with the universe, not in flow, things are not working, I had the idea, wait a minute, I think this guy just might let me keep this equipment for a lot longer. I came up with the idea that I needed this done tonight. To give it back to them. I don't really have a plane ticket yet tonight. I tend to buy them right before I get on the plane. So do I really know that I'm even leaving tonight? I don't know. I've had the universe overrule that before too. So there was a flawed premise to begin with in which I constructed my priorities. And quite often, if the universe is not allowing things to flow and you're like, but I've got to, it's no, maybe you don't. Maybe the whole premise you've started with is wrong.

Well, I'll give you a great example. So I have my kids tonight, and I've been invited to a dinner of changemakers who are all in the environmental space like yourself. I bet that if I wrote my friend and said, hey, can I— I haven't seen my kids in a little while because I've been traveling for business. Can you do Do you mind if a very qualified fellow entrepreneur took my spot and I'll join you for drinks later? She would be a hard yes on that, and now you would actually meet some people in your direct line of business, which is— So maybe that— so right there, you know, case in point.

And I've got a second meeting in San Francisco that I've been blowing off, and I thought, well, it's just not going to happen now because I don't have the time to get up there from flying out tonight. And now there's like another vote that like, maybe—

Right, so let's go back and let's unpack this a little bit, right? So you did the classic entrepreneur mistake, which is you created a mental model which might have even been right or wrong at the time, but let's say it's wrong, right? And most mental models are wrong. Now, instead of when you're getting feedback that that mental model is wrong, like maybe you don't need to return it, maybe you don't need to leave tonight, right? So this metal model is wrong. Um, now on top, but you're continuing to force it in the world and you're getting this feedback that the model's wrong, that maybe it's not right, that's not fulfilling for you. And, and the, the, you know, the two questions that come up that every entrepreneur faces is like, you know, when do you know What that feedback is, and then what do you do with that feedback? Because a lot of times, you know, we're all doing hard things, right? So I'll tell a story of my own in this, and to emphasize this point, but just to finish the point first. So like, we're all doing hard things, and negative feedback is expected, but you know, when is it like so negative that it's like, okay, time to stop? And a story that I had is, so I was raising a fund and we ran into the holidays. And then we kind of came out of the holidays and I was like, I would try and be like, I'm gonna pick it up. And for one reason or another, it didn't happen. Then I'd be like, God, I'm, ah, like I need to do it now. And then it wouldn't happen. And rather than just pushing through, I would be like, okay, it's not happening, right? Don't complain, like, wait till it happens. And then one night on a boat, I looked up this stuff. I'm like, man, it shouldn't happen by now. This is wrong. I'm just gonna do it. I wrote it, sent it. It was like the heavens opened up, Josh. We had the highest converting email I've ever seen. It's almost 20% of people that see the email click the link. Okay, that's unheard of. On top of that, we got wires were coming in, like, we're gonna close the fund in days. And it was like, I'm sure if I had rushed it or done it a different time, I would never have gotten those results. It was like the right time came when the right time came. But like, how do you know Right, or even you and speaking. We're going to be speaking together at 4 Years From Now, and I had all these other speakers, and then I was like, it's a fireside chat, let me ask Josh. You're like, yeah, let's do it, I want to improve my—

it was like, well, and I had just canceled two other speaking engagements. And again, using this principle, I think what our listeners can begin to see is this is how Adeo and I think. We're in conversation with the universe and looking for little things to happen, right? So signals, signals. So, so for instance, when I was thinking about bailing on these other two speaking opportunities, I wrote each one and said to the organizers, essentially, for a number of reasons, you know, I would, I would like to not come if I can still not come, if it's not going to put you guys in a super hard position right now. They— think of all different responses I could have gotten back, like No, we've already signed off the thing, like, you're screwing us, like, you're gonna blah blah blah, you know, you are obligated. There could have been a lot of responses, and instead they said, we understand there is another speaker who's local that we actually are interested in giving a try. You wouldn't have to come in for it, blah blah blah. It was smooth, and I was like, well, that's interesting. I said, great, let's— and I asked a couple more qualifying questions and just decided, yeah, what— it just didn't— it never felt like it was the right thing for me to be doing at that time. And I saw the universe kind of say open the door. Yeah, hit the little etch-a-sketch, shake it up. And then it was hours after that that you and I decided to go do this talk together.

Yes. So that's so— so, and, and I had something similar happen with a speaking opportunity, and which they— this guy's like, would you like to speak? I'm like, yeah. And I went to change my flight and they gave me $200 back. Who the hell changes flights and gets money? So I was like, well, that's Pretty easy. I made money by staying for this conference.

So those are the signs we're talking about, right?

But like, again, so let's— you— why didn't you listen this morning?

Because I was— I also think I ate like some, some something I have a food allergy to. Like, I felt my consciousness plummet for a little while.

So you were in low—

I was in a low consciousness state, and so I thought Okay, I feel so awful. If I can just get one thing that's been nagging me off my list and it was this hardware stuff, right? I'll just start with that. But again, I'd already— because I was in a low state of consciousness, I couldn't step back and see that my original premise was not true. Maybe there's a reason I wasn't meant to solve this whole hardware situation in the next hour the way I thought I was going to solve it, right?

Yeah. So, so I would—

and there's a higher priority, which is like our other thing, right?

So the best way that I could describe it, because look, when, when I opened this conversation, we didn't come in here with answers, everyone. Like, this is not like, oh, we're gonna give you the answer. I was like, he's like, why do you want to talk about this? And I'm like, Josh, here's why I want to talk about it. I don't want to get better at it.

I told you why I didn't want to talk about it. You said that's why you need to talk about this.

I'm not that good at reading the signs from the UR. I could certainly be better. So, so the best way that I can describe it is like breadcrumbing. Like when you're listening and you're hearing the feedback, you're getting like positive reinforcement and you find another little breadcrumb and it's like positive reinforcement and you find another little breadcrumb, positive reinforcement. Conversely, when you're in the wrong direction, which by the way, I think There is no absolute right and wrong, but there are cues from the universe that you're going directionally wrong and directionally right.

Call it an efficient path or a really inefficient path.

Right. And, you know, there's the bigger question is to what end, and I want to get to that in a moment. But you start seeing like little problems like, oh, you know, my hotel, uh, get, you know, didn't book me on the right dates and like Oh, you know, the flight comes in at a weird time and you're like, "Oh, something's not just right." And like, "Let me try and fix it." And then that fix doesn't— like, you're on hold for an hour and a half and you're like, "Wait a minute, nothing is flowing." Right?

It's not like we're saying the universe is saying you should stop working hard and doing important things and go order a pizza and just watch Netflix for the rest of your life. It's quite often there's another important, impactful thing you could be doing instead.

Right, in alignment with your— so this goes back to a lot of times we— and in fact, do we were also talking, we kind of covered some of this in the manifestation talk, where, you know, manifesting is saying I want to achieve a certain thing or see a certain thing in the world that makes the world more beautiful. Right? And you don't necessarily have a straight route to that thing. It's not like you wake up and the thing just happens. But so this is sort of like a guidance system of your intentions, and then sort of the, the universe created by you and others to get to your intention. And a lot of times it's not a straight path. So if you sit there and you're like, I'm gonna get this device working And for whatever reason, you have some other intentions at play. The universe has other pieces of feedback. Maybe, you know, I'll give you— let's play your, your machine hypothetical out very simply. From what I hear, there could be two other things at work. One, you might need to stay a bit longer because there's an untethered or untended to opportunity. And two, maybe it's not the right time to return the machine.

And what's weird is the way this stuff came to me. It's pretty obscure hardware, you know, we're talking, you know, brainwave reading equipment and of high quality. And I was in town. My set of this stuff is several states away. I wrote a buddy. I said, do you have this stuff on you, you know, at your place? Yes, he has the stuff. I said, are you happy? Are you coming to Palo Alto anytime soon? I've actually got an appointment there this afternoon, right? Like, so I— and like, within a couple hours, I had this obscure neuroscience equipment in my possession. So that's what— that's the flowy part, right?

Right. The— so, so, so, but how do we be more caught— like, and I guess the topic is how do you listen better? So that's a great example of you listening well, like, oh, I need it in intention. Guy who has it, oh, he has it. Oh, he's coming to San Francisco. You ask the right questions, you unpacked, breadcrumbed your way to it landing in your lap. But I can tell you from vast amounts of experience, there's many times where, you know, I'm not having that flowy experience. And so that's sort of what the thesis is here. How do you get better at it? Right.

I've also been missing my meditation a bit, not hitting it like I'm used to. And I think the goal of things like meditation is to give you that separation between impulsive action and the meta perspective, right? So this having— it's kind of giving yourself a timeout.

Patience. I think patience is really the— so if you don't feel—

patience without escapism though, you're like patient and paying attention. And that's rare. Yeah, people can be patient as long as they're like numbing themselves out and distracting themselves, right? But patient and attentive, not a common combination.

So patient and listening, right? Because what's the cue that, you know, and I think that's really beautiful. Like, you know, can we not— and we talked about this yesterday when it comes to problems, like sort of not jump right in with an answer. But sort of wait. And so if you're feeling resistance on something, right, either internal or external, right, well, exactly, either internal and external, don't be like, oh, I'm gonna like jump in and do whatever I can to break through. Maybe just wait a moment. And similarly, if you're feeling a pull towards something and you're not sure why or what, Give yourself a moment to let it reveal itself.

Yes, and I know it sounds paradoxical because you also spend a lot of time helping entrepreneurs to not give up, but that's, that's a slightly different context, right? You don't have to give up on the big vision or the intention.

Hey, I don't know, I'm not talking about, you know, a lot of times the, the patience I'm talking about is measured in hours, right?

Days, right?

Not talking about months, years, and, right, and decade. That's right. Yeah, it's not like, oh, in a decade I'll return.

It's like patience is not giving up for years and packing it in.

I might even say like it's giving it space to reveal itself, what, what really the right next step is. And then, and then being— so, so like, I think the, the— a great example was you and I and speaking at this conference, because I had all these people on a target list. I'm moving through it. A few people were like, oh, I can do it like this, right? And I was— I had a feeling because I was like, oh, I could just lock it down. And I was sort of a day late anyway when they wanted me to lock it down, which isn't that bad in the whole scheme of things. So I could have locked it down. I'm like, let me just, let me, you know, I didn't love the option, right? And I'm like, let me, let me give it some space, even though there was a lot of pressure. And sure enough, it worked out. So I think like, you know, not feeling like pressure or, you know, discomfort, but allowing it to resolve.

And if you think about kind of a bit more of the magic, a glimpse into the magic of that moment there. The conversation came up on the way to breakfast because I didn't know about this opportunity you had.

Yeah, I think we should tell everyone the exact story. So, Josh is staying over at my place, and I came down for breakfast and overheard him, I guess, talking with your advisor about speaking.

Exactly.

And then I was giving you thoughts on, you know, the speaking circuit on a conversation in a car ride to breakfast, at which point I'm like, oh, wait a minute, we could do this big speaking thing together that would be very high profile. And it was like—

and if you— and if, if you hadn't overheard me talking to my guy, and if I— we hadn't made time to go to breakfast, and if we— it's weird, like, we might have been Two ships passing in the night, not connecting on this, right?

Well, that happens a lot, and I think that happens a lot when you're not— So let's try and make this super practical because we now, we have a bunch of entrepreneurs that are listening and they're probably like, oh my God, there's some magic here. I know, I feel the call many times. Like, how do I turn this into a practice of being mindful and aware and listening to feedback. The first thing that I would say is that understanding that there are sort of almost an inexplicable force that's giving you feedback and that feedback is conversational. Just being aware that that's happening rather than ignorant to it would be super helpful for most entrepreneurs.

That's the premise, and then there's the skill. But you're right, we're never— we're oftentimes not taught this premise to begin with. So how much practice are people really getting? But we're saying this is a skill that two seasoned entrepreneurs who, you know, we've got a formula for how to do things, we've got a map, we've got experience, we've got grit, we've got all that, and we're saying Hey, this is an important skill.

Yeah, and it's counterintuitive, right? Because a lot of people are like, paint the chart, you know, go that way. And a lot of times it's quite like, it's like, listen as well. So I think the awareness is step 1. Then step 2 is sort of— so what I find is your feelings are really helpful here because, as you mentioned, you were feeling really frustrated this morning. Conversely, when I feel unsettled about something, like, "Oh, I don't know, this doesn't feel right," like, don't do it. Really, stop, because if your feelings are saying no and you can point to little things that aren't working right, so again, then you're going to start to— you have these negative feelings and you have some sort of small negative externalities, I would say at that point it's a sign to stop.

And to not— and to stop and not just do the reactive opposite of the thing you're going to do is really— that comes out of that patience you're talking about.

Yeah. And then give it the opportunity for the right thing. Now here's the other thing that I found in that moment, because we should also talk about the right thing moment. But so let's say you're trying to do something, you're Feeling a little weird, you're getting some external negative signaling, stop, right? That would be my second piece of advice. Third piece of advice is then be patient, right? Don't jump into the first thing that comes along or the opposite thing. And then my follow-on piece to advice to the patients, the fourth piece would be, B, it's not often like obvious what the next thing is, right? 'Cause a lot of people have a checklist. So they're like, okay, well, this isn't working. So the next thing on my list is to do this. But in fact, the universe, so to speak, might be giving you feedback to do something totally different, like go on vacation. And you're like, so I think you, if you stop and patient, then you need to be very open.

Yes. And it could be something totally left field, and it might become obvious, but there's that period where it's not obvious. There's no— nothing to fill the vacuum, and you've really just gotta— you gotta make the space like you're talking about.

Yeah.

So maybe, um, because it became obvious when you said, oh my gosh, I've got— I need a co-speaker for this thing, and we're talking about this, and I overheard your thing. Like, it became obvious, but there was this period where I had to sit sit with, no, these ones don't feel right, I'm canceling them, right? I don't know why I'm canceling them. I'm supposed to be doing more speaking, not less speaking, right? There's this uncomfortable period of patience there, and then it became obvious, right?

And then, and then, so then let the universe show you what the next step is, and it may not be the obvious next step. And then, you know, outside of that, I want to look on the positive side. So that's sort of the negative externality path, which I think most entrepreneurs just totally ignore. But I think most entrepreneurs also totally ignore the positive side. So like, things are flowing, things are working. I actually have a term for this, which is the magic. And it's entirely possible that you can fuck the magic up, right? And I see people do this a lot when things are flowing really well and they're like, almost like, whoa, like, you know, and they try and stop it because they think maybe they don't deserve it or what. Like, it's like a self-destructive impulsive reaction, and you can break the magic very easily. Like, when things are flowing and decisions are going well and the team is making everything work and every problem just goes away, yeah, Ego mind really screwed up. Yeah, so it can be immediately thwarted if you lose that flow. So I think if you have the magic and you're on, you're following the breadcrumbs, being— the first thing that I would say there as a piece of advice would be realize that it's happening.

Yes.

Right? And then, because most people don't even appreciate it.

It's a good time for gratitude. Yeah.

It's a good time for gratitude, exactly. And then instead of fighting it, like try and follow it as best as possible. And if it leads you in some weird places, as long as things keep going, I would say keep proceeding. Like I'll give you an example with the starting of the Founder Institute. Like, we tried to make the Founder Institute virtual because we didn't want to— you know, it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And offices, real estate.

Yeah. All the things we did failed. Yeah. Meanwhile, people were knocking on our door. Oh, we want to bring the Founder Institute to San Diego. We want to bring the Founder Institute to Singapore.

You can't, it's virtual, right?

And then we're like, okay, let's try that. And then it just took off, right? But it was— if I had stuck with no, only virtual, like, we'd probably be a total failure today. But meanwhile, we're in 200-something cities with operations in all those cities because the— you— I was being led to do that, and I didn't fight it. Nice. So some of the things that you're led to do may not even make a lot of sense. And may not even be in your plan, but if things are flowing and growing and working right, don't fight it.

Yeah, absolutely. I don't have anything else to add, but this is a constant conversation that I feel like I am having with the universe. I don't always get the memo. Sometimes it has to show up as a buddy to tell you, you know, hey, stop and take a timeout. But let's get better at this skill, 'cause this is how you go from startups that, many endeavors, but startups, they don't need to kill you, right? Like, you team up with the universe, you listen for the feedback, you learn how to be patient and listen. It's still gonna be tough, it still might be the hardest thing you've ever done, but it doesn't need to destroy you and ruin your health and drive you crazy. There's a more elegant way.

I think the word team up with the universe is really beautiful because I think when you're getting those signs of the direction to go in, right, and those signs lead to flow, what's happening is you're bringing the resources of the wider human consciousness, life on the planet, etc., and they're, they're supporting you.

Yes.

Right? And so I love that concept of teaming up because it really isn't a solo journey when you're in this conversation and the dialogue is flowing and everything's moving. It can be very, very beautiful.

And, and just a final point, if any of this sounds a bit new agey to listeners or whatever, realize that this phenomenon has been discovered by sages throughout time again and again. This is This is— and other people, other philosophers might call this the life force. You know, we're just— we're allowing the life force to flow through you in a beautiful way. You're harmonizing with the Tao, this fundamental force of creation in the universe. But this— whatever language you need to couch it in that allows you to embrace it and play with it a bit in an open-minded way, please make that language switch. We've done the best we can here.

Well, and help you team up with it.

There you go.

Thank you very much, everyone. Have a beautiful, beautiful day. Here.