Vaibhav Namburi: Acquiring your first 10 customers, what is outbound marketing, and more.

Hey everyone, how's it going? Thanks so much for taking the time and joining us today. My name is Zeyhan, I'm the head of global growth for the Founder Institute. We have a pretty exciting webinar planned out for you folks. This is our first time doing it at 6 PM Singapore time, 2 PM Dubai time, and I think different time zones across Europe and Asia, so really excited to have different audience members coming in from there. Please let us know in the chat where you're coming in from, it'll help us just get a better understanding of who you folks are. We have a very, very exciting webinar planned out for you folks. We have Mr. Vaibhav. He's the founder of Smartlead. I've known him personally for the last, I would say, 7 to 8 months. Great guy. He's built some great products. He really knows his stuff when it comes to outbound. He's been very grateful for joining us and explaining his secret recipe to outbound and how he's built his, I think, like 3 or 4 companies. So really, really excited to have him on. Awesome, we have people from London, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, Berlin, Cham, Switzerland, Dubai. Awesome, really, really good, good stuff from Nuremberg, Amsterdam. Really, really excited. We had about 470 people sign up, so I was expecting around 100 people to join. We're at about 82, so We'll see people join as they come. In the meantime, Akshay in the back, can you bring up Vaibhav so people can see who he is and he'll do an intro? While he's doing that, everyone, I just wanted to give some housekeeping. You'll see a Q&A button on the right-hand side. Please use that because we'll do question and answers at the end of the event and we'll bring up questions and Vaibhav will answer them. Once the event is finished, you'll see all these virtual tables. Please stick around, network with each other. You have all different types of entrepreneurs, founders, marketers, salespeople, uh, different, uh, individuals. So just go and network and talk to each other and just learn from each other, right? We have some people from the FI team there, we have some grads, so you can really really learn from each other. Um, all right, babe, whenever you're ready, just turn on your video and unmute yourself. Uh, and then while he's doing that, folks, let me run about 109 people. Yeah, as you can see, there's some emojis here at the bottom, so please use that as a means to give us feedback or of like how the presentation is going so far. Vaibhav, you good?

Yeah, just a second. I'm trying to get my camera to run for some reason.

While you're doing that, I'm gonna run a poll.

Yeah.

Well, let us know. We're about 114 people right now. Are you currently doing outbound for your business? Is it, you know, like it's either yes, no, or you've tried it but you're not good at it. This will help Vaibhav get a good understanding of how the, who's in the audience today.

There we go. There we go.

Awesome. Hey, Vebab.

What's up everyone?

Hey, so we're at about 125 people live. I think we should get another maybe 10, 15 people. So, okay, you have a nice split between people who've done outbound and they've not done outbound. Okay, it's starting to come in now. It's still good. So I hope this is useful for you as you give the presentation, but it seems like majority has not done outbound, which is why they've joined this webinar today.

Yeah.

All right guys, I'll leave the poll open. It'll be in the poll tab. So if you wanna contribute to it later, you can, but I'm gonna hide it from stage. We have Vaibhav here. Vaibhav, do you just wanna quickly introduce yourself and then?

Yeah, for sure. Are we waiting for more people or do you wanna kick off straight away? What do you wanna do?

Yeah, let's start to kick off now. We typically see, we're at 1:31, so I think, yeah, why don't you do the intro, then kick in and let people come in. Awesome.

Great, great, great. Awesome. Awesome. Hi everyone. My name's Vaibhav, go by V, whichever is easy for you to pronounce. I'm based outta Sydney. I've known Ayan, had the pleasure of working with him through some of his businesses as well over the past few months. So in short, I've run a few companies in the past, but the two 2 sort of winners for me have been something called 521, which is a software development company. Grew that to 50, 60 people, added a bunch of clients, built a lot of fintechs across Australia. And while doing that, we've effectively gone ahead and built an infrastructure where we've learned how to do outbound effectively because that's one of the main ways we grew that business. So that brings me to the second part, which is Smartlead, which is Effectively an easy way to go ahead and send out emails that will land in your lead's primary inbox so that you can close deals. So we've grown that to over 5,000 businesses, a bunch of people using us, a lot of cool revenue that is being generated by some of our customers. And I'm more than happy to share about all the things that we've learned being on the backend, reviewing the data that we get. So to give you context of scale, we send about 6 million emails every day right now. Sorry, uh, 4.5 million emails every day right now. Cool. Um, Ayan, is there anything else or should I just jump straight back into it? I don't know if Ayan's even there, but, uh, I can kick off otherwise. Um, sweet. If, uh, there you go, we've got Ayan back. Is he saying something? We're good to go. Can I kick off? Right, uh, you're muted there, Ayan. Okay, I can kick off. Cool. Great, so what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna move my screen over here and I am going to start sharing my tabs. So we are gonna try keep this in an educated way. So what I'm gonna do is just go through some slide decks very quickly and then after that jump into very practical approach of trying to understand, how you can actually use tools to effectively go and do ad band. Um, it's about 20-30 minutes, so I'm going to try to go through this as quickly as I can, and there's a lot to cover, and I'll try my best to get through as much as I can. I try to keep these things as analytical— sorry, as interactive as possible, so please throw your questions in the chat support— in the chat section. I'll be more than happy to answer them as we go through it. Great, so I will just Click the start right now. Give me a second. All right, great. Uh, please tell me when you can see my screen. Oh, no audio. Can, can people hear me? Uh, if you can hear me, please say yes. Or— okay, you can hear me. Great, great, great. All right, cool, cool, awesome. I'm going to share my screen, and I'm going to share the whole screen, so I've made sure I've hidden all the fun stuff. All right. Great, um, you should be able to see my screen right now with a few tabs on the top right corner. Alrighty, sweet, great, looks like you can see my screen now. We've got nice little thumbs ups, we're gonna kick off. So I've done the introduction, so I'm not gonna bore you with that again, so we'll jump straight into the next piece, uh, introduction. And effectively what I'm trying to do over here is Explain what outbound is. Outbound is effectively using lead generation techniques to bring in revenue predictably. The reason why I love outbound is simply because of the fact that you don't need to depend on any algorithm or any technique or pattern that is at the helm of someone else's business model to go ahead and help you generate revenue as to Facebook ads, social media in general. As much as people want to say email is dead and LinkedIn is dead, for outbound it's really not. We've got thousands of people making money every single day, and I want to walk you through how you can do the same thing, at least give you an overview of how to do that. Sweet. At any point in time, like I said, if you've got any questions, please, please, please. I think Jean-Robin cannot see the screen, but I'll let the team sort of discuss that with yourself if necessary. But we'll jump into it, try to get an understanding of how you can use AdBound in an effective way to go ahead and build you add— yep, add and build your particular business. Cool. So the overview that we're going to go through right now is a few steps. I will try to cover as much as we can. The first thing is actually market research. How do you find a customer? Who is your customer? The second thing is how to find high-intent leads. We'll go through one or two tools over here based upon the time that we've got. We're going to talk about an effective outbound campaign and what that actually means when you're creating a campaign. It's not just getting a bunch of emails and sending it out there. I'll walk you through how you can actually do this. And then we'll— if we have time again, we'll go through some challenges you may face when you're trying to close deals and how you can overcome those obstacles when you are trying to solve those things for your particular customer or yourself.

Cool.

So far so good. Throw me a thumbs up and I'll make sure that we are good to go. Great, I've got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and all right, all right, we got a heart as well. Awesome, you all are fantastic. Cool, all right, let's go, let's go. Sweet. Now when you are going ahead and creating any sort of ad band, when whichever stage you are in a business, how much of a revenue you're generating, one of the main things for you to work out is these particular points over here. They are going to help you decide your customer's ideal existence, where they are, what they're doing, and how you can create create, or what people refer to as an ICP, to effectively position your offering so that you can close a deal with them and sell them something that makes an enticing offer on their side. So the first thing you wanna ask and find out is where are your customers making buying decisions? And by the way, we'll jump into each of these options very quickly. And if you've got any questions, I'll try keep them at the bottom right in the Q&A section. We'll get them answered towards the tail end as well. So where are they making decisions? And what I mean is not literally marketplace, but We want to look into different areas as to what is the locality or what is the, the ecosphere that's causing them to make a decision? Where are they finding trusted resources to make a purchase, that purchase decision? Now, second thing is to work out what matters when they're making a purchase. What are the key things that they look for when they're trying to buy a particular product or service? I'm going to— this is product or service agnostic. Then the third one is to actually quantify the pain that is costing them. The main thing that you wanna understand over here is if you quantify how much the pain is costing them, that makes it very easy for you to go ahead and sell that value. Because what you're trying to do over here is something becomes expensive when there's a difference in the value you provide and the cost of your service, right? If your value outweighs the cost, then effectively it becomes a win for you and it's an easy deal to close. But in a situation where your cost of service is higher than the value you provide, that's when the attribution or the delta becomes a negative for you. So you want to work out what that cost is. Then we move on to the next piece, which is how much are they valuing their pain? Now we can have two sets of people where we have a company that's perhaps burning $5,000 a month on petrol fees for their sales reps, and there's another company that's burning $50,000. Now the company that's burning $50,000 they don't care about that 50 grand. It's actually, they don't care about that pain at all, right? But the ones that are spending $5,000, they care about it a lot. So you need to understand whether this is a top priority problem for them to solve, because every business has 1,000 problems, right? So how do you measure their pain points? We'll jump into that very quickly as well. Then we go into the next thing, which is what is the solution they're using at the moment? It, everything is a replacement for something else. You can— there's nothing in the world that has not been solved for. It's just someone that's solving it better. So every single thing that you introduce to the market, a product, a service, whatever it may be, is replacement of something else that people are using or doing. The last one is we want to do competitive reviews, which is a very obvious thing to mention when you're doing customer research, but we'll jump into that as well. Uh, cool. A quick upfront question: you mentioned outbound via email, but is 'Is your proposal compliant with—' Yes, actually, great question. So I'm not a lawyer, but the premise of GDPR effectively applies to end consumers or end users. So you can't sell to individuals or consumers, but you can definitely sell to businesses. And it's basically the premise of anything outbound or business development oriented. So of course, when you're selling to EU, especially Germany, you want to be a little careful in the way you want to position yourselves, and we'll actually go through that part. However, if you're doing a business-to-business relationship where you are providing a value point to the customer, which is another business, then it is GDPR compliant from what we are aware of. So of course you can't spam them. There's a lot of things to follow through. But to your question, you are fine in a B2B. Yeah, exactly. In a B2B context, this is what this entire pitch deck is about. None of this applies to B2C. Please do not go ahead and use outbound marketing for B2C. It will get you into trouble. This is only for B2B. Cool. All right, do something nice. All right, all right, cool. So let's jump into it. So let's go into the first topic of question. The first topic of question is around decision cycles, which is the first thing I said is where do people make decisions. So this is actually a very crucial part for you to figure out where authority is being created. If you're selling an end consumer product, maybe you're selling products that assuming you're selling to, you're selling baby gear, right? One of your products is in the kids wear. You want to be part of these Facebook groups where there's moms and dads where they're making these decisions. There are people speaking about reviews. Those are the places you want to be. You want to speak about, you want to speak about joining WhatsApp groups where people are making conversations about cold email or outbound. That's how one of the ways we grew our business is we joined these dark groups that were having active conversations about about this particular problem. Now, where do you find this? That is obviously a tough one. With Facebook, it's easy because you can search just by going into facebook.com and search based upon the intent. However, with WhatsApp as well as other platforms, it is a dark social engine, which means that you want to go ahead and have the right audience or the right person to find you. In this case, you can definitely join some paid groups. There will always be someone on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube selling something in these paid groups, and that is a great way to get in. It's a curated engine. Now the second thing is Reddit and forums. Reddit is one of the many forums. There's a bunch of other forums. There's Whirlpool, there's Reddit, there's a bunch of forums that exist. These are great ways to become an authority in the space. There's a lot of people, including ourselves. Everything I've mentioned over here, by the way, is tried and tested. I am not hypothesizing anything. This is every single thing that we have actually done as a business to grow to 5,000 users, 5,000 businesses, total about 10,000 users. So when I say we want to speak about forums and Reddit, that is actually one of the ways we acquired our first few users is because we would actively join communities, areas where people were posting about problems they were facing, and we wouldn't just go pitch them what we were solving for. We would simply go ahead and offer direct solutions. And with the value of ChatGPT, this is— I feel like I'm speaking in an old age. I didn't have ChatGPT back then, right? 3 months ago. But now that we have ChatGPT, you can you can easily use that as a, as a value mechanism to go ahead and offer value to your customers in that space and then become an authority. Now let's go to the last option, which is influencer purchases. Even till this date, whether you're a service-based business or product-based business, influencers are the fundamental easiest way for you to acquire your first set of customers. It will mean sometimes you want to set up a deal with them. You might go with a heavy discount, but it does not matter if it is a loss leader because guess what? A loss leader is very, very crucial in the early days to go ahead and bring in those first set of customers through which then you can go ahead and then create more inbound revenue because your customers are selling for you. But all of this includes you having to reach out to these people. You can search on YouTube, you can search on Twitter, you can search on LinkedIn. All these places are where influencers are sitting, selling products and building an audience curated around the service or product that you're selling. Cool. All right, let's, uh, let's go into the next one. Um, uh, so Ayan, just while I'm over here, do you want me to be answering questions, uh, that are showing up at the, at the bottom right corner, or do you want me to wait all the way to the end? You can type it in, but I will continue on. Um, okay, we can wait. Awesome, great, awesome, cool. Um, those forums and groups require approvals, otherwise the post would be Tried to be specific. Continue. All right, cool. These are great questions. We'll definitely have answers for all of those because I've, I've been banned a few times by Reddit as well. So you're not wrong in throwing that question. Cool. Now let's look at the next thing. What matters most? This is actually very crucial because all of what I'm showing over here to you is, by the way, important when you're creating your outbound campaign. It's a lot of that prerequisite homework that you're doing because what you need to do is figure out what matters to your current audience. If they care about pricing, if they care about a certain feature or pain point that's missing, they care about reviews that exist on the internet, they care about this person influence, this person backing this particular product. All these things matter because then when you do your outbound, when you do your outreach, you can simply position it based upon that particular experience that you've seen other customers face. A common, a common story is when you join your competitor's Facebook group, there are common questions as well as common issues that you will see being posted. Very similarly, so you would want to create an offering or service that is around that space and simply reach out to the same people who have positioned themselves as someone who requires this particular solution. You can also go ahead and offer services to companies that are struggling with a particular problem as well, and they've posted about this. So these are what we call high-intent leads because they have actively positioned themselves as people who require this assistance. And you're not just spraying and praying over here, you're reaching out to them with a clear offering that is matching the problem they're facing. And this is part of that copy that you'll be creating. Great. All right, now, pain point pricing. Uh, we will, we'll move on quickly because I know we're, um, we're running cautious of time. Uh, this is the point where you want to work out how much this this problem is costing your customer. It's as honestly as simple as trying to speak to a few people. You'd be surprised how many people would be open to having a discussion with you on this. Just message someone that is your ideal customer. Maybe let's just say you are a marketing agency trying to sell short-form videos. That's a really hot area right now. You can simply go ahead and message someone who's creating videos manually. How? Just find them on Twitter or Instagram. Just send them a DM. I get hundreds of them every day. Ask them, hey, Are you doing this yourself? How much is this costing you? It's very simple, right? That will give you a general understanding of how much it's costing that person to create these videos, and then you can offset that maths. Cool. Now let's go to the next thing. Every single solution you create, like I said, is a replacement for another solution. So you need to know what solution you're replacing because that is again going to be fundamental to part of your copywriting and your advanced structure saying, I know you're using this software, or are you using the software? Are you using this technique? Like, uh, Do you hire salespeople every single time you want to go ahead and increase your revenue? Because guess what? I've got a better system for you. Because once you know what you're replacing, it's easy for you to find out what angle you want to come in with. And then more so, it helps you understand what existing pain points are there with that current solution. If we take this example of each time you're growing your team, you need to hire a new salesperson. Your positioning can be simple. Instead of saying, go through the pain points of having to hire a salesperson, try test them, interview them, then go ahead and train them up. We give you pre-vetted, pre-qualified salespeople that will plug and play into your business and start generating revenue from day one. So that is the angle that you can take there. Cool. All right, sweet. Um, let's go into the next one over here. Now we jump into, uh, yeah, all the slides will be emailed to you, by the way, so, so not to worry. Um, finding high-intent leads. Uh, we can jump into some tutorials, but before we jump into these tutorials, I want to maybe walk you through the copywriting techniques. Then we'll jump into the tutorials of these softwares. I'll just skip that over here. All right. So I want to actually speak to you about how you create outreach copywriting techniques that actually close deals. Now, a lot of this over here is not a framework or a system or technique. A lot of this is about how you can go ahead and do best practices to ensure your emails have high deliverability. Before we jump into what deliverability means, you create a, you create an email sequence. You have a bunch of people you want to email or send LinkedIn messages to, DM on Twitter or DM on Instagram, whatever it is, you want to make sure that you've built yourself in the right way so that you actually land in their primary inbox and you actually gain their attention. Because if you land in the spam folder, it doesn't matter if you've got the best value, it doesn't matter if you've got the best product, they're not going to grab your attention and they're not going to go ahead and actually click on your particular email. Cool. Now we'll jump into this over here. These, this is a checklist that I've basically created over here, but I will obviously share this with you. Step 1, you may be inclined to go ahead and add a nice grippy image or something within your first email trying to tell them to grab their attention, saying, hey, look at me, I'm interested. Don't do that, because when your email-to-word ratio is too high or your image-to-word ratio is too high, that tentatively gets picked up as spam. And what your job is, is to ensure to get the first email in your lead's inbox. And obviously We run SmartLead. We allow you to do that in the best way possible. But what you want to do is ensure that you've got a plain text email the whole way through. And with that plain text email, you want to ensure that you can get into that lead's primary inbox. And then once you're in the primary inbox, then you can send any follow-up emails like your first reminder, second reminder, third reminder with all the fluff that you have there. But the goal is to get into their primary inbox to begin with. So that's step number 1. Cool. And make sure you check your spam folder. Cool. And a link for the first email is fine. We'll jump into this very quickly. Um, so while perhaps we'll answer this question, but I'll sort of run through it as well. A link is good, but you don't want to add many links. It's probably just one link, and probably the link to your actual business itself is what you want to add over here. Many links, especially nowadays, are being picked up because what Google does, especially I'm just talking Google and Outlook, they do have an index score where they have spam scores based upon the website. So if your website has, for whatever reason, a high bounce rate, your reputation's not good, that intent also ends up affecting your email's reputation as well. So that's a fair point over there. Calendly links are perfectly fine. You can put a Calendly link. Just one link is more than enough, to be honest. Don't add more than that. The second thing is keep your email short. You do not want to go ahead and have emails that are greater than 150 words. It's a busy, busy, busy world. I mean, I just, while I was creating this slide deck, Ayan, thank you for answering that. While I was creating the slide deck, I realized I had 190-something emails that I got just today. It's almost impossible to go through all of those. So if you want to capture my attention, which by the way, 2 or 3 cold emails did capture my attention, you want to keep it short, snappy, snappy and to the point, right? Uh, this is an actually very simple trick that I would recommend everyone to do when they're doing ad band is use something called the Hemingway app. It's basically a reading difficulty application. It's free to use. It's online, just typing Hemingway. And what that does is it simply goes ahead and highlights the grading of your copy to let you know if it's actually too complex or too easy. You want to keep it simple. You want to keep it straightforward. You want to keep it absolutely dumb because people don't want to think. right? So that's what you want to do. Now here's the thing, and this is something that we picked up more recently based upon the terabytes of data that we're going through with Smartlead, is you want to avoid spam trigger keywords. You want to be very careful because originally what Google, Outlook, and Zoho cared about was the technical setup, something called the DKIM, DMARC, and SPF records, which we'll jump into very quickly. But nowadays what they care about just as much is the NLP engine that they're building. With the advent of ChatGPT as well on top. So what you need to do is be very careful about the copywriting systems that you built. You do not want to capitalize your subject lines. You don't want to add bold letters inside there. You don't want to put random numbers saying I will give you $30,000 or $40,000 or $80,000. You want to, if you want to show a metric number, you can 3x, 100%. You want to quantify that as a percentage or relative cycle instead of actually absolute numbers simply because they get picked up. As spam filters. As I can say, you can sell, that's the whole point of cold emails, but just don't sound like the Nigerian prince, right? That's all we want to make sure that we avoid. Oops, sorry. You can definitely use ChatGPT to get the Hemingway thing for sure. Yep. Let's just jump on to the next one. Great. Now this is the most common mistake I see people make. We sent I don't know how many, like I said, 4.5 million emails go out every single day. And I can tell you, it almost irks me whenever I see someone tell, send a message saying, do you want to jump on a call at 3 o'clock or 4 PM? Whichever cold emailing course you've seen that from, absolutely dump it in a fire. That's not what it is. The goal of a cold email is simply to get a positive response. The goal of the positive response is to get interest. The goal of the interest is to get a conversation. The goal of the conversation is to get a demo. The goal of the demo is to sell your product and the goal of your product is to convert the customer. It is a longer sales cycle and sometimes it's easier or faster. But remember, if you're doing cold emails and you're selling something for $99, cold email probably might not be for you. The general essence of cold emailing is a more higher ticket experience because it is a volume-based game. So cold emails should always, always, always read as conversations, not as sales pitches. So just keep that in mind when you are doing your outbound systems. All right. Counter to popular belief, do not add HTML emails. Guess what? Every single time you go ahead and— I'm sure you receive these subscription emails from Domino's, Shopify, whatever it might be there. I don't know how many of you open it up, but I personally don't because the second I see it as a promotional email, it just drops out of my vicinity or my eyesight. So what you need to do is focus on making it look as normal as possible, as conversational as possible. No one wants to be sold to, and especially when you send an HTML email as a template, they know that is not personal at all. So you want to make sure that it is not a mass message email and you want to personalize it as much as possible. So a lot of people do follow-ups, and the common question I get asked is, hey, how many follow-ups should I do? And the second question is, what do I actually add in my follow-up? Now the number of follow-ups really depends upon your niche. We tend to keep it to about 3 to 5. And the reason why 3 to 5 is that magic number is 3 so that we don't— it's a busy inbox. You wanna make sure you capture their attention. And 5, because after 5, if they're not responding, you probably want to stop because every single email of yours that doesn't get opened by them inherently reduces your deliverability of your mailbox as a whole. So you want to be very particular over there. Cool. And then what you want to do is you want to angle it. So the first email is your pitch, right? You want to go ahead and speak about, hey, how you going? Throw a compliment, which is a personalized compliment. Then you want to speak up a quick case study. We've helped XYZ achieve this, and we've done this particular system to help them achieve that. Can I send some more information? Very soft CTA. Second email, if you're going with this particular strategy, is simply going and telling them, just so you know, this is what we've done for this person. So it's a buildup of your first email, pop-up, pop-up, right? right? Then third email, you actually just go ahead and send them that playbook or that, that Loom video or whatever you might be over there. So that actually adds that value proposition very upfront to the customer. Fourth email is a reiterative case study, which is you're telling them, so in the meantime that we've spoken, we've actually helped this other customer achieve Y as well, and I'm pretty confident we can do the same for you. Let me know if this is of interest. Fifth email, it's up to you. People have different ways of it. You can either do a breakup email saying, I understand this is not the right time for you. But another thing that I do that has worked really well for me is in the fifth email, I simply say, if this is not of your priority or this is not for your responsibility, please point me to the right person and I will have a discussion with them directly. So that is the right way you want to go ahead and do that. Cool. Now we want to speak about some technical copywriting techniques that you want to implement over here, or technical systems you want to implement in your ad band. 5 email. Yeah, so 5 is actually a very common pattern that a lot of people do end up following. Like I said, 3 to 5 is the usual example that people go with. So now this is 2023. You should not fundamentally ever be cold emailing from your primary domain. If your company is called smartly.ai, do not send emails from vaibhav@smartly.ai or sales@smartly.ai. You need to be sending emails from something called complementary domains. Simply go ahead and get these domains from Google Domains is what we recommend because it comes predefined with a bunch of stuff. Their higher reputation. And you want to set up complementary syntaxes such as use Smartlead, try Smartlead, get Smartlead, it Smartlead, or whatever it might be there. And the goal over here is because you want to diversify your email reputation or your domain reputation. Because if your primary domain gets spammed or blocked as spam or marked as spam, what ends up happening is you end up affecting your overall domain's response, like deliverability, and that affects your core engine. This way you're diversifying as much as you can. Cool. All right, now let's go into the next thing. Do not use alias accounts. As much as people want to feel tempted to use alias accounts because they are perhaps a little cheaper, do not do that. It does not serve any value in your actual outbound systems. It does not serve any value in your outbound strategies because it— the way cold emailing works is the reputation of your primary domain that you are aliasing from will end up having the same ricocheted effect into it. So it does not actually warm up your domain. It does not actually diversify your, your, your danger cycle. Cool. Um, let's go into the next one. Spintax. Now, not many people know this is what I've come to learn about. Um, I'll answer what an alias account is very soon, uh, during the Q&A. So spintax is something that's coming as almost a manufactured problem as a result of doing a lot of cold emailing in the market these days. And what that means is you want to ensure there's randomization in your copy. Now realize email is a product. Gmail is a product just like any other product in the market. Gmail, Outlook, Zoho are products, and they're trying to create the best experience for you as an end user. Now if you end up having someone send a lot of emails in quick succession that all look very similar, then there's a good chance that if one person in that bunch of emails Mark that email copy as spam. What Google will do is, again, because they're the NLP king and queens, is they will look for associations of similar copy sets with the same signature. And every single time the same copy set and signature is found in any other email that's sent through in that framework, in that network, it will automatically be sent to spam even if that person is interested in that email. So you want to be very particular. So how do we do this? One very easy option is A/B testing. Right? A/B testing is a way for you to go ahead and create different variances of your copy. But another more, well, unknown system that you can actually do is called, it's called Spintaxing. Spintaxing looks like this. You can say, hi, hello, hey, what's up? Now you might say, what's the difference between Spintaxing and A/B testing? A/B testing's job is to test different angles. Maybe you're selling a different offer, you're trying to do a different copywriting framework, you're trying different, Subject lines. Spintaxing is simply saying the same thing, just using different synonyms. By saying, hi Vaibhav, hey Vaibhav, hello Vaibhav, what's up Vaibhav, you're bringing variances into your copy. Because remember how I said if Gmail finds that same body of copy and the same signature, you get blocked. What you want to do is you want to take that signature, that body, and put as many spintax systems inside of it so that you end up getting 80 to 90 permutations of the same email. So then that increases your diversification and reduces the chance of getting picked up in spam. Cool. All right, now warm up your domains. What does warm up mean? It's, it's very simple, right? Um, you can't— I made this mistake a few years ago where I first got into this, this thing, uh, 2013, 2014, whenever it was, and, uh, 2012. I was like, all right, cool, I'm gonna buy a bunch of domains and I'm gonna go ahead and send emails. Now that works, that worked fine 11 years ago. Nowadays you can't just go ahead and do that. What you need to do is effectively warm up your domains. Warming up is a way of programmatically emulating an experience where you're sending natural conversations between the mailboxes that you own and the mailboxes that are owned— this is other network. So, um, SmartLead allows you to do that. You can join SmartLead or any other of this bunch of warm-up tools where you can add your mailboxes into their warm-up pool and programmatically emails are sent out. You want to be careful with this warm-up pool as well because you want to have natural conversations that go through Again, we do that at Smartlead. Other tools might be doing this as well because you don't just have random lorem ipsum text. The goal of this is to protect your email reputation by default and by nature of cold emails. You have low reply rates and you have low, relatively low open rates. 70 to 80% is what we want to aim for. But the goal is to offset that natural reply rate that you have with cold emails because that's just how cold emails work, their mass game process by emulating a warm-up infrastructure where you're always getting a response back programmatically. You're not doing anything over here, but it is being done for you by the software that you're using. And it almost battles, right? Like, this is dropping your reputation because you're getting maybe a 3% or 5% reply rate, but the warm-ups are getting 100% reply rate, right? So that is the way you want to go and do this. Yeah, cool. WarmBots is another example where you can, you can check that out as well. Sweet. So let's go down. Um, unsubscribe text instead of links. Someone asked me about GDPR over here. So depends upon who you're targeting. If you're targeting Germany in your, in your data set, definitely add unsubscribe links. But otherwise you can easily get away nowadays by just using the text, just telling them, say, not interested, or reply with not interested, right? Because what you want to do, you can do this as SmartLead. You can simply just put a system saying stop sending follow-ups when a reply is received, and then it picks up the reply and stops sending the follow-up messages, and it will pick up any reply. So But the good thing is when you end up getting these people responding with not interested, it's actually even acting as a two-way game and improving your deliverability because you're getting a response. Albeit it's a negative response, and we're going to give Google a bit of time to pick up that there's negative and positive responses, but you are getting a response. And right now their nascent algorithm, where it is at this moment— I don't want to sound obnoxious by saying nascent is actually, um, advanced, uh, algorithm, you can simply just go ahead and have that assist you with your delivery cycle. So that is just another way you can go ahead and ensure that you stay away from, uh, you know, you boost your deliverability and also ensure that you work in a better place. So that's that. Cool. Um, then we have something called custom domain tracking. Now what custom domain tracking actually means over here is, let's say So the way open tracking works for those who care is most email service providers attach a tiny little image. It's a 1x1 pixel image that does not exist. And what that does is when an email is opened, right? What ends up happening is that triggers a request to our servers in the case of Smartlead, and that is registered as an open. Now I tentatively ask people not to worry about open rates at all because it's not a measurement that actually works ever since 2020 or when Apple iOS 14 launched, to be honest. Because what happens is 48% of all email traffic goes through Apple's IP infrastructure or their proxy network. And what they do is, A, they bar network requests going from beyond that IP pool that they own. But the second thing is they actually go ahead and pre-render all your emails so it looks like someone's read your email when they actually haven't because it was done by a bot. So where does custom domain tracking come in is in a situation you still want to track your open rates you would be using Smartleads image, right? Now let's take Smartlead or any tool that exists in the market. There's millions of emails going out. So any email service provider will pick up that there's this one single URL that exists across millions of emails. So there must be something happening over here because there's good replies, bad replies, some bounce rates happening, and it will automatically start descaling your reputation or descaling your deliverability simply because of the existence of that URL. Remember how I said When you're putting links, you want to be careful with the links you put because the reputation of the link also matters. What custom domain tracking does is just a nice way of masking that link from ever even showing up, and it sort of helps pretend or fool these email service providers from knowing that that is actually being used for tracking. All right, and the other thing that we want to speak about is using something called the Do Not Contact List. If you do not have one, you should definitely start building up one. A DNC list is simple. All it does is it ensures that you're, when you're doing outbound, you're not messaging people who clearly don't want to be messaged. Maybe your company's previously interacted with them, they're your existing customers, people who've unsubscribed or bounced. So this is just part of just protocol that you wanna follow and you wanna make sure you can do that. And then what you wanna speak about is something called avoiding personal emails. Now this comes to that same question. Even if you're selling to B2B businesses, right? If you're doing B2B outbound, do not just, because let's say you feel like, oh wow, I found someone's personal email. That is not a place for you to send out emails to because personal emails in general have a higher reputation cycle. That means they usually have a stronger NLP engine to filter out emails and push them to the secondary, the promotion tab or the spam tab. So you want to ensure that if you're doing outbound emails, you're using it to professional email addresses. And that is a nice easy way for you to work through that. And then let's jump into the last one, which is inbox rotation. What inbox rotation means is you don't want to be using one single mailbox to send out thousands of emails. Now Gmail allows for 2,000, is their upper limit. Outlook allows for 1,500. Zoho allows for 1,200, something like that. But you do not want to be sending more than 50 to 100 at tops. Actually 50 is what I would recommend. So inbox rotation is an easy mechanism to have a bunch of mailboxes and scale horizontally. So you're using a bunch of mailboxes to send about 40 to 50 emails per mailbox at max, and you're sending emails out and the rotation cycle is handled by the software, Smartlead being one of them that does that, or you have a bunch of other tools that do that as well. So what this does is it lets you go ahead and scale very quickly so you can reach thousands of people very fast in a single day without having to worry about landing in spam, hurting your reputation, being worried about will you actually build this domain's reputation, will you lose this mailbox, et cetera. Just by horizontally scaling, it's a very, very, very easy way to reach to thousands of people extremely quickly. Um, so yeah, that's, uh, that's kind of what I wanted to walk through over here. I do know that, yeah, from different, uh, from different email IDs. Um, that's kind of what I want to walk you through, walk through over here. I am happy. Um, Ayaan, how are we going with time? Is there anything, uh, can I sort of carry on a bit, or, um, do you want to jump into questions? Because I know there's a lot of questions.

Hey, Vipabh, yeah, so we're at about 40 minutes, so we have about 20 minutes left. Okay. Do 5 to 10 minutes and I'm going in and trying to answer some questions as well just so.

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, cool.

I think it'll be helpful for the audience to see how all these tools work together. So if you wanna. Yeah, okay, cool. Do that. Yeah.

Cool, cool, cool. Let's do that, let's do that. So I'm just gonna go with Apollo, which is the easiest option over here. Now I, Usually don't recommend using something very generic like Apollo. You need to go ahead and have that intent, you know, driven. So what I usually tend to do is I use, let's just say an intent signal would be LinkedIn, right? So you want to go to LinkedIn job ads and find people who are hiring for that position that you're filling or service that you're filling for, maybe sales reps, right? Let me just try open something up over here and just give me a second. Give me one moment. And you want to do jobs. I'm sharing my screen in a second, sorry. All right, I'm just going to share this over here. Great. Now obviously I put sales, you want to be a little more careful in the terminology that you're going to use, but in easiest way over here is for you to go ahead and use something like this where I can see sales in Australia, there's 22,000 people hiring for this. This is one of the many ways as intent signals that you can use. You can use something called Findymail. So Findymail is a tool for you to go ahead and scrape LinkedIn. There's also clay.com is a way for you to go ahead and scrape LinkedIn. And we also have another tool for you. I'll show you very quickly over here, right? So as you can see directly, it's gone ahead and shown the job listings over here. If I see the rows, I can see all the LinkedIn, I can see the title, I can see the company name, I can see the location, I can see the company's LinkedIn URL. All of it's just shown for me over here. I can export that into Clay and easily go ahead and find the CEOs of these companies very quickly. So we can actually try this on the fly. It's, I did not practice this, so I'm sorry if this does not work out. We can actually give this as a quick shot. So let's go over here, maybe, actually no, let's not do that. We'll, we'll skip this. So assume that you have a bunch of these, these people, right? You have their LinkedIn profiles, etc. What I can then do is actually go ahead into Apollo, and in Apollo you can go to their search module. Apollo is actually very affordable, it's $49. It's, it's a great sort of engine. And then what I would do is I go to company as a filter, and then I'd say include/exclude companies. And then let's just say I have 5 companies that showed up in that list. I'll put in Facebook.com, I will put in LinkedIn.com, I'll put in maybe, I don't know, Clutch, Clutch.com, and then let's just find a random company that I have over here, Canva, right, Canva.com. Right, and then what I wanna do is I wanna Save the search, and then once I save the search, you will obviously have a bunch of results show up, but we don't care about that. What we then want to do is find people. This is where we talk about intent in the ICP. I want to go ahead and search for maybe hiring manager. Sorry, in this particular case, I'm searching for salespeople, so I say sales manager if there is someone there. So we found 172 sales managers across LinkedIn, Facebook, etc. And then you can export to CSV using again Findymail, or you can export it just using Apollo itself, you can select the max number of people. I'll select 200, and then I can just— max number of people per company is 1 so that you don't send to multiple in the same company. You can if you want. And then you just apply selection, and then you can export because then that will go ahead and export the CSV for you with all their email addresses. So we've gone ahead and fetched that. So that's one quick win. We've now got a bunch of leads who— from companies that are actively hiring, right? We know they're hiring. We've got the sales managers over here because guess what? They're hiring for salespeople. Great. So we're going to pull that down. We'll pull that list. We're going to come into a demo account over here within Smartlead. I'm going to click on add campaign. I have that CSV with me, right? And I'm just going to upload that CSV. I'll do this very quickly. Like I said, there's a global block list and a bunch of other stuff you want to worry about. We'll move into that next. I'll do email. And then something for you to be focused on is these variables that would come through over here, right? Like their LinkedIn job URL and a bunch of stuff. I will actually add that as a personalized value, and I'll show you how to use that in this copy that I'll create. So I'm just going to say this LinkedIn profile, just let's say, let's assume the LinkedIn URL is the job URL that we have here, right? So I'll just put that as a custom field. So once that's uploaded over here for me, I'm going to come in and I'll just say, uh, notice you're hiring, hiring, and first name. I obviously didn't map it, but let's say I have that first name there. And I'll say, uh, now see, here's the thing, right? If you actually look at someone's inbox, you'll see 1,000 people saying, hey, first name, hey, first name, hey, first name. You want to stand out. So I try not to use hey, first name. I'll say something like, um, uh, noticed, um, saw that, um, checked in, uh, checked out, uh, that, for example. I checked out that then I'll say company name is hiring, or then we can put position, right? Because we have all these variables stored in that CSV, then we can simply go with that example that I have over here. We've helped, um, all right, so notice blah blah is hiring for this position. I can say then we can go maybe perhaps into a quick case study, um, We've helped, you can put in a standard client of yours or something. We've helped, I'll just put in software company with a ready-to-go sales team. Sweet. When I say just last week, you wanna put in a bit of relevance over there so they understand that this is something that's happened recently. It's not happened, you know, a few months ago. So we've helped software company with the ready-to-go sales team just last week. 2 reps have already locked in 8 meetings. Now these, you don't want to bullshit, you want to actually have data behind this. I'd love to see you share the playbook we used for them. That might benefit you. So as you can see, I'm just very soft call. I'm not asking for more. I'm simply saying that we've done something for them and we use a particular playbook. We're driving insight, we're driving intent, we're very excited for them to see, okay, I'm keen. Yeah, sure, send it across. That's all I'm trying to get right now. What I can do is when I send this across to them is I can then go ahead and send them a link and that link will capture their email address and then that can go into a sales funnel, right? Where I can get one of my sales reps or my SDRs or my appointment setters to then go ahead and reach out to that person. Or I can simply send them a PDF and that PDF is riddled with everything with my company, with a get in touch contact cycle and so on and so so forth. So can I share that? So that's one piece. And as you can see over here, I've done spintax, right? That's a nice way. You can add A/B testing if you want. We just skip that. Now the second email is where I said you want to sort of jump into, just so if you missed that, if that's the last one, here's what we did to help software band 8 meetings. And what you want to do is you want to say predefined find, you know, personas, etc., whatever your system technique is over here, right? Um, etc., etc., etc. Uh, you want to sort of add that in there as a breakdown of what you've done for them. Then the third email is you want to go ahead and jump into perhaps another case study. Here's how another person has successfully, um, hey, uh, so since we last spoke, we not— so since we last spoke After B, he has added another 8 meetings with, you know, and then you can even sort of share a case study where they added meetings with someone which was high-profile customer or high-profile client that you can share across with your NDA. So that's just a nice little flow that we've got over here. You don't wanna do one day, you wanna do something like about 2 days and then you wanna do with a 3-day gap. And obviously you want to ignore weekends and stuff, so we can do all that piece. And then go save and next. That's just one second. Great. Then you want to set the time zone of your leads. So obviously if you're pulling people out over here, I have searched in Australia, so I am going to select Sydney as my time zone. And I'll select a certain time cycle. This is where I said this is the magic of the product that comes in place. You can say I want to send emails at 20, every 20 minutes. So let's just make it every 10 minutes. 54 is not a lot, but guess what? If you attach 10 mailboxes, That's 540 sent out in one single shot. Save and next. You can actually see all the variations over here. Now ignore that there's no copy because I actually don't have company name or position and all those variables actually mapped in. But you can see all that show up over here. And here comes the magic moment. You want to go ahead and simply select all your mailboxes just like that. And now you've diversified your entire outbound sequence and you've ensured that you've got high deliverability as well. And click save and then simply start your campaign and that's it and you're good to go. You can see the results pour in, you can show your meetings pour in and then more importantly you can actually go into your master inbox and you can actually look at the positive replies that people send back to you. You can allocate that with revenue and you can actually ensure that you've got money coming in. So yeah, that's an easy example over here. We've got someone, we've got a 51% outreach that can be obviously done better. If we actually click into the campaign, let's look at this. You can see we've got a lot of replies over here, 30%. We've got a few bounces. And then you can even look at your email account performance. This is the thing that I like doing when I go a little technical, is I want to understand which mailbox is performing better for certain campaigns, because that's just something that ends up happening. Internet's running slow here, but yeah, there you go. So you can see, um, SmartLead SEO is clearly doing good. This one's doing good, but this one's not doing good at all. So that's something we probably want to drop very quickly. So, um, so yeah, this is a general breakdown of actually how you do ad band at scale. Um, there's This is how we see a lot of our customers do it at scale as well. And then there's a lot of other cool stuff you can jump in, but I won't waste your time on that. We'll jump straight into the questions. So Ayan, do you wanna roll in and maybe throw in a few questions? Should I stop sharing as well, by the way?

Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, thanks so much, Vaibhav. Folks, if you've enjoyed Vaibhav's content, thumbs up it. My colleague in the chat also mentioned if you thought it was good, please share on Twitter and social, tag Bebop, tell him he's awesome, he needs support on Smart Leads side. Yeah, Bebop, let's just kind of jump into questions because we had a bunch. I jumped in and started answering some, but let me remove your screen. And all right, so I'm gonna start putting up some stuff here. Based on what people are thinking. So some people are asking about like, you know, how does outreach on LinkedIn? I think, I don't know if it's ready yet on Smartly, don't wanna give too away, but like how is the LinkedIn integration and how can you incorporate LinkedIn with your outbound? Yeah, good to get your thoughts. We had a couple questions in the chat about this.

Great question. So I would use LinkedIn as a buffer. So omnichannel is very, very important. You can't treat email as a vacuum nowadays. You need to have a social presence, you need to have LinkedIn presence, Twitter, YouTube, something, right? say, oh, great email, here's my credit card. You definitely need to have some sort of an omnichannel approach. So what people tend to— this is in beta with Smartlead, but your first email can be an email you want to send out. The second email can be viewing their LinkedIn profile so they know that they get notified. Third email can be a connection request. The fourth email, uh, fourth thing can be an email follow-up based upon that. Um, the fifth point can then be a message sent to them on LinkedIn saying, yep, look, I've reached out to you on email, this is what I have to offer. By doing that omnichannel approach, you're just You're not being a pest. There's a, there's a very delicate game you play over here. You're not being a pest, but you're simply going ahead and letting them know that they are busy, but we're letting you know that we're trying to speak to you. I believe the stat was back in the day, in the early 2000s, you needed 7 touch points or 17 touch points. I don't remember. And nowadays it's actually in the 20s to 30s of touch points. So you need 30 different touch points before someone is actually activated as the, what, you know, as, as what's referred to in consumer consumer purchase decision behaviors. So you want to make sure that they actually know you top of mind, top of sight. So with LinkedIn, you can add multiple LinkedIn accounts if you want to go with SmartLead, similar so to adding some multiple mailboxes, and then that auto-rotates and lets you scale and go past LinkedIn's limitations.

Awesome. Can you— I don't know if you talked about it, but can you like just tell people what SmartLead is and SmartWriter and like everything? Because some people are asking.

Yeah, for sure.

What cold email platform do you use? And I told her—

Fair enough. So Smartlead is my tool. So for those who are asking, maybe I did a— I try not being too oversalesy and pitchy because it feels like I'm trying to sell you guys something. So Smartlead is our software. It's a cold emailing tool. You can add a bunch of emails which you want to reach out to. You can add your mailboxes that you want to use and then send out emails to those leads. We ensure that you've got the best deliverability possible and we ensure that you there's a good chance for you to land in your lead's inbox. So that's SmartLead in general. And then you can also use LinkedIn, like we mentioned, we've got that coming in as well. So SmartWriter is another software that exists. SmartWriter's job is to basically create personalized emails. Personalization is a very, very important part of anything outbound because you don't want to sound like everyone else. You want to look like you've done research. It goes on the very core fundamentals of influence, influence in general. Which is reciprocity. It looks like you've done some work, you spend some time researching into them, and they feel obligated to then respond back to you. So, um, yeah, that's that.

Uh, perfect. Let's do a couple more and then we'll wrap things up. But, uh, since you just talked about reciprocity, let's do this question. What works best before you kind of jump into the meeting? Like, how— what's a good transition? I know you briefly talked about when you were doing your demo there in the copywriting, By the way, we hit about 200 people live at one point, we're still at 100. Yeah, that's great. So what's your thoughts on this? Like, do we just jump? Like, I know you said we don't jump straight into asking the meeting, but what's a good alternative?

So it's definitely a value-based approach. So I do very soft calls. So a technique, maybe I'm sort of exposing myself here by speaking in front of 200 people, but a strategy that's working really well for us is simply a playbook approach. Like, hey, we've done this with someone else, We've done it using this strategy. Can I share a quick video on how we've done it? That's all, right? It is. And it's not a, it's not a, you're not recording a Loom video for every single person. You're simply sending a generic video and all you're doing in the generic video is then almost pitching them your service, your product, and how you've achieved that with that, right? So that's all you're doing. And if they don't respond to that, then you can do a quick follow-up email with the techniques and strategies that you've used. Now, If they then go ahead and want to do what's the pre-homework you want to do before they jump on a call, walk them through this, give them that upfront value. It's a very give game. And then the last ask is to go ahead and get a demo, right? Or a meeting. That's all you're doing over there. So the way we've seen it work really well for us and for some of our customers, it's simply just been, here's what we can do. Here's a very soft approach. Here's all the data laid out, of the rest of the conversations. And yes, if you're interested in a phone call or meeting, here you go.

Oh yeah, that's a great, some sound advice. All right, let's do a couple more then we can wrap up. So I think Delabar is asking like where do you go to learn about cold emailing on the B2B side? I know, Summar, you produce some content, but— Yep. Yeah, like some other places.

Yeah, for sure. Recommended resource for creating content for cold emailing, right? So if you want to speak about creating content, so yeah, we've got a guide, guide.smartly.ai. It's pretty much a free cold emailing course that's used by all our customers. It's quite popular. Otherwise, Twitter is a great place. LinkedIn is a great place. There's someone called Jesse Ouellette. Check him out. He writes a lot of interesting content about deliverability and so on and so forth. But in general, Twitter, just type in cold emailing and you'll find a whole bunch of people write a bunch of stuff. You should check them out. And then LinkedIn, Jesse's one of the core people that I can sort of recommend that does great. And then you have these WhatsApp groups that I spoke about, these dark groups that do really well. And another thing you can actually do is join Slack channels. So we've got a Slack channel with Smartlead. I believe Lemlist, who's a competitor, they also have a very popular channel that's rolled out. and you can even just simply search for cold email on Facebook and you can join different groups where people are sharing tips, tricks, and strategies. Just don't pay for stuff. Everything's free.

Yeah, I heavily recommend that folks, like go on YouTube. Like I think also YouTube is a good place to go and check. Yeah, YouTube's great.

Yeah.

There's just so much, like someone that both everyone knows, Alex Berman, he's created a bunch of great content. Yes. So, and he has other stuff.

Yes, but yeah, Alex Berman is a great example. Go check him out on YouTube, 100,000 subscribers, absolutely crushes it. Really solid content there as well, all free.

All right, I got a good question for you. You're gonna like this one. Mailchimp versus Smartlinks.

Yeah, okay, I want— so look, the goal of Mailchimp is it is an opt-in software. That means you have gotten consent somehow to go ahead and send this person an email. It's for list building, it's mainly for newsletters, and it's for an audience that has already interacted with you before. Cold emailing is to go ahead and send out emails to someone who's never interacted with you in the past or has maybe heard of you but have not interacted with you or not given you their email address. Very different infrastructures, very different systems. When you use Mailchimp, you use templates, you use these pretty HTML templates here. Here's a discount, or here's a coupon code, or why haven't you come back to the application in the past few days? That is absolutely not what Smartlead is for. That is a cold emailing platform built to get your mails into your lead's inbox. And the core of that is not to send HTML emails or do list building, is to get a sales message across to the customer.

Okay, awesome. I think that's a good way to end things, folks. Thanks so much for joining. We're just at the top of the hour here. What we're gonna do is we're gonna end this session momentarily. Everyone, please show Vebab some love, give them thumbs up, add them on LinkedIn. We're gonna be sending out the deck after this. He's gonna share it. We're gonna also share out his LinkedIn profile and a recording of this session. So please, he actually dropped a lot of great content in there. So please make sure you do review it when you get a chance and just constantly, just I guess, perfect and iterate on your outbound skills. Yep.

In the meantime, I will send the slide deck as well. Sorry, Ayaan, I'll send the slide deck as well for you.

Okay, perfect. What I recommend also, sorry, just now folks, 'cause everyone's here, we're gonna end the session. You're gonna see a bunch of tables, go and network with each other, talk about what you've learned here. There's some people I saw, some FI grads and mentors and local leaders and directors there, go talk to them. And just cross-pollinate your knowledge. With that being said, enjoy the rest of your day. Appreciate you all joining from, I guess, mainly Asian, on the Asian side. This was our first 6:00 PM Singapore event. So we're planning to do more of these. So hopefully you can join those. And we host these events about twice a week, usually 10:00 AM PST, which is a little bit later for everyone, but we'll try to do more Asia-friendly times. But with that being said, thanks everyone. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you. Have a great day, and appreciate you having me on here, Ayan.

Yeah, thanks for coming, man.

Cheers, man. Bye.