Venture Funding for Female Founders: An AMA with Cat Lee (Maveron)

Hi everyone, welcome. You're here for the Venture Funding for Female Founders. We're hosting an AMA today, which is an ask me anything with Kat Lee from Maverin Ventures. My name is Rachel Shepherd. I'm the Global Marketing Manager at Founder Institute and the co-creator of the Female Founder Initiative. A little bit about the Female Founder Initiative really quickly before we introduce Kat is the Female Founder Initiative is powered by the Founder Institute, which is the world's largest pre-seed accelerator. We're here to help women start, launch, grow, and fund their companies. And we're here to do that worldwide. So we work with women all over the world in more than 65 countries and 180 cities. And we, we support them and their— the growth of their startups through our newsletter, Slack channel, partner resources, office hours, and now our webinar series. If you're interested in learning more, you can go to femalefounderinitiative.com. And if you're interested in learning more about Founder Institute, you can go to fi.co/enrolling to see where we're enrolling for our program around the world. But without further ado, I want to introduce Kat Lee, who's a partner at Maverin Ventures. and we're so honored to have her here with us today. Kat, do you want to share a little bit about yourself?

Yeah, first, Rachel, thank you so much for having me. I am truly excited to be here and to be the first one to kick off the webinar series. So hi everyone. I can tell you, I guess my path to venture is probably a pretty unique one that I never really intended to find my way here, but I eventually did because of one stat. And I'll get to that story, but I started my sort of career here in Silicon Valley. I was born and raised in Santa Clara. I followed in my dad's footsteps. He was a physics major turned engineer. And so similarly, I majored in computer science and became a software engineer at the company that he had spent 40 years at, which was Lockheed Martin. I very quickly realized that I wasn't passionate about the defense industry and sort of broke out on my own to really figure figure out what was I passionate about? What did I really want to do if it wasn't to do what my parents wanted me to do? So I went to grad school and I knew that I wanted to work on products that I used every day and products that I felt people were using and that were really improving people's lives. So I interned at Google and in that internship, I loved the product team. The people that I had met, loved working on things that I used every day. But obviously Google was such a huge company, and that was in 2007. And I saw a speech, I mean, Sheryl Sandberg spoke to us interns, and she talked about why she joined Google, and that she joined because she knew that it was going to become a rocket ship. So I kept thinking in my mind, what's the next rocket ship? I looked, of course, all around at the products that I used every day and the people, what people were using around the classroom, and it was, Facebook. And Facebook, of course, wasn't coming to recruit MBAs. So they were recruiting engineers at Michigan. I crashed the pizza party, introduced myself to the recruiter, got the offer to join Facebook. And when I said I wanted to join, they wanted me to drop out of business school. So I talked to my professors to help me graduate early and started at Facebook in early 2008, was there in the 4 years leading up to the IPO. And so saw that crazy growth. In various roles as a product marketer and developer relations and program manager as Facebook grew from 400 people to 4,000 people at the IPO and wanted after that point to do it all over again. So I joined Pinterest at 35 people as a third product manager, had the opportunity of starting and leading our growth team Helped us grow to 100 million monthly active users, then stepped in to lead our partner marketing team. And then my last role over the course of 6 years was as reporting to our founders as head of culture and scaling Pinterest across 15 offices. And by the time I left, Pinterest was 1,500 people. So seeing that growth from 35 to 1,500 people over 6 years was such an amazing experience. That I really had to think about what did I want to do for the next chapter of my career? If you know me, I am the type of person that likes to push myself to do the uncomfortable. And at that point in my career, I had felt really comfortable at Pinterest. So I saw the stat that was published in Fortune Magazine that said that out of all the venture capital funding, only 2.2% goes to all female founders, companies that were started by all female founders. And I was shocked by that stat and also wanted to see what I could do to make a difference in changing that ratio. So I started angel investing and I angel invested at first by enrolling in YC, which is Y Combinator Startup Investor School. Then I applied and got into First Round Capital's Angel Track. And lastly, I was scouting for Sequoia. And through that process, I met a woman named Aileen Lee who led Cowboy Ventures as well as was one of the women who started the AllRaise movement. And she told me that I should be a venture capitalist and made a lot of introductions to different firms. And that's how I met the Navron team. I just truly truly loved the team's culture, their focus on consumer and improving the lives of consumers and really investing in accordance to their values. So that's what led me here.

That is wonderful. And thanks for sharing that with us. Lesson learned: crash pizza parties where you can. Could be life-changing. But that's really incredible that you've made these decisions in your career. In order to help women get their companies funded, because that's incredibly important. And I know you put on your, on your bio that the goal is to get to 50% in the next 50 years, right? And hopefully we can do that sooner. And ideally, we can come up with new ways to get there faster and get more women funded, right?

Yeah, definitely.

Awesome. So Cat has generally provided, generously provided her time for us to get the most pressing fundraising questions answered. Answered. And so we had questions submitted from all over the world. And right now we have an amazing audience joining us from, from Berlin, Brazil, Chile, Montreal, Argentina. So people are all over the world with us right now. And we're going to talk a little bit about the following categories of fundraising and preparing for fundraising. We're going to talk about preparing your company for your first round of funding, how to get and prepare for VC meetings, and how to stand out and showcase your company's fundability in those meetings when you get those opportunities. So we'll start at the top with some of the questions that were submitted in advance, and please feel free to ask questions as we go through this webinar. We want to make sure that we're helping as many female founders as possible today get a little closer to get to closing that next round of funding. So we'll kick it off to start. Supriya from Luxembourg asks, How do you know when you're ready for funding?

And specifically venture funding?

Yes, exactly.

So one of my partners uses the analogy that venture funding is like rocket fuel. Um, and that's what, because when you accept funding from a venture capital firm, uh, you are signing up for riding a rocket ship. And there is a certain amount of expectations around building a multi-billion dollar company in a short amount of time. And when you know that you're ready, it's when you not only have that ambition, but also a little bit of a plan in terms of how to get there and what you want. And again, how you're planning to get there and knowing that this is the right partner to achieve that vision with.

Awesome. And so then to, to, to follow up on that really quickly, let's talk a little bit about finding the right partner. So you were mentioning, you know, how do you know that this is the right venture capital firm to work with? How do you identify, or how do you suggest founders identify which of those VCs, how to find the right VCs to work with?

Yeah, I always think that it's, it is a long-term relationship. And a lot of the analogies I feel like people use are very similar to the world of dating and marriage, where you want to find a person that is really aligned with your values, your principles, and the vision and how you want to achieve success together. Because in some ways, your success is truly aligned and you want to find the person that is aligned with that. So I always say that it is a matter of really getting, spending that time and getting to know people. One of the ways in which I have done that in terms of figuring out which firm I wanted to join is doing references. I like to ask, when I talk to the different firms, I asked, and you can ask any of the VCs that you speak with for references of founders that they've worked with, where the outcome turned out very successfully. And also founders in which their companies may not have been a success. And I often think that when you talk to those founders, you'll hear specific examples and stories on how that, person has either supported or didn't support them throughout that journey.

That's an incredible piece of advice right there, is to really go and talk to the founders instead of just looking at the investors themselves. That's, that's a great, great piece of feedback. So next question, Surya from Dhaka asked, what steps can you take to build a proper business plan for your company?

I think the plan or the exercise of putting together a plan is just a forcing function and a framework for getting you to think through how you want to achieve your vision. And the elements of the plan that really matter is, is thinking through what is that unique consumer insight that you have that may or may not be obvious, that gives you an advantage of achieving the outcome that you're looking to achieve. And I would say, depending on the stage, that sort of changes the way in which you construct the plan. Of course, at the earliest of stages, it is much more about the team, the insight, and maybe even just like a rough idea of how you plan on achieving that vision. But as you get further and further along in growing your company, it matters more in terms of showing that cauldron of consumer passion, showing why people can't live without the product or service that you're building, and doing that both anecdotally and through numbers.

That's awesome. Wonderful. So the next question, and this one's really interesting. Sarah asks, when you have a business that is women-oriented, and, and by that, I believe she means, you know, women are the target market for consumers. Consuming this product and, you know, most of the investors you're going to meet with are going to be male, are there any things you can do as a female founder to sort of position your company in the best way and/or prepare for those meetings?

One of the things that my partner, my partners have really taught me is that two things. There's really two questions that we have to answer as VCs. One is, is this a good investment? And the second is, that they tell me is, is this a Cat Lee investment? And I do believe that when making these decisions, there is a little bit of an art and a science to making these decisions. And so for the first question, which is a little bit more academic around the science aspect of things, it is like fundamental, like fundamentally, do we believe this is a good investment? Do we believe what are the chances that what needs to go right in order for this to be a multibillion-dollar outcome? And we look at everything from the team, the insight, your kind of go-to-market and your approach, the market itself and how big that market is. And then in terms of the art piece and is this the right investment for that particular partner? I think in some ways it is being prepared and understanding, does that partner have a thesis? What investments has that partner made that really, and what has that partner shared both in terms of Twitter, blogs, in all of their sort of speaking events that may or may not be aligned with the vision that you're trying to create. And so in preparing for conversations with people who may or may not be aware of the core audience or may not intuitively understand it, it is also helping them understand it through the stories that you have and the research that you've done with your core customer that kind of brings them along your sort of vision.

That's a great point. We've heard that from, from other investors as well, that it's, it's less about, you know, the product itself, it's more about the person and then also about their portfolio. You know, can your company enhance their portfolio or somehow support and fit in in the way that they've already made their investment thesis, right? So that's, that's wonderful feedback. We're getting great questions from the crowd, so I want to encourage everyone to keep them coming. We've got some more on preparing for your first round. So Mirja asked, would you recommend to achieve cash flow first before attempting to go to VC for funding?

No, it's not. I mean, obviously with any of these answers, it's It's, there's never a one size fits all. Um, and I do think that it probably depends on, uh, the business that you're trying to build and how you want to, like I said, how you want to achieve that vision. So there's no right or wrong answer on whether or not you should achieve cashflow positive or be cashflow positive ahead of a conversation with an investor. In some ways it's just a matter of What type of business are you building? And do you, you know, what proof points do you need to have the confidence to know that you are ready to commit to a timeline to building a multibillion-dollar company in the timeline that an investor is expecting?

Okay, awesome. This next one to sort of next question relates to one that Joanna from New York submitted, and Deepti has the same question. Are geographic boundaries a concern for investors in considering funding a startup? So where the location of the startup itself?

I do think that it varies by investor. We are primarily US-focused. We have some investments in Canada as well, and for us it's just because when we think about the partnership or the partnership with you as founders, we want to be we see ourselves as an extension of your team. And one of the, the ways in which we can truly add value is to be there for you whenever you need. And so I've hopped on planes and many, many times to help our, our founders either close a candidate, hire candidates, help them with any sort of operational need that they, they have, or be able to introduce them to a lot of our network and our network of experts and founders and advisors all happen to be within the US. And so the geography constraint is really more dependent on us being able to achieve the type of partnership that we want to have with our founders.

And a follow-up to that, Ayesha from DACA asked, you know, how can female founders create relationships with VCs in the US if they live outside the US? So similar to that network question, right? That's so— that's such a big part of it. How do they sort of break in and get in front of VCs when they live far away?

Yeah, I think it's in some ways many VCs are pretty accessible through a lot of these new platforms. I mean, Rachel and I met on Alpha, and for those of you who don't know, we— it is a platform for— it's a community for women in tech. And a lot of times founders are, I mean, most VCs are completely open. DMs are open on Twitter, Instagram, and in any of these sorts of events, we try to make ourselves available to, to help and really give back to other founders who may not have the same access. I'm very conscious of making sure that we're, we're accessible to founders who may not have that access to the small network of people within Silicon Valley.

Yes, that's, that's excellent feedback. Okay, great. So we're going to move on and to talk a little bit more about preparing for VC meetings, because I know that this is a— getting and preparing for them, because this is a big topic for a lot of founders. So similar on that same thread, we were just talking about how to get in front of VCs. We want to know— Rochelle from Orange specifically said, you know, we touched a little bit on how to identify investors and the best ones for you. Is there any, you know, tools or tips you can give on how to go about sort of searching through the wide array of investors that are available?

Yeah, I think the best thing to do is I mean, there are many investors that are out there. First and foremost, it's about thinking about the stage of capital, what stage you are at as a company and finding, uh, first, I think one of the biggest filters is filtering by stage, uh, you know, whether that's looking for angel investing, seed stage or seed investors, uh, Series A and beyond, um, that will help narrow that down. Second is to really look at investors who have invested into, who have either stated that they are interested or looking for companies that are, that match what you're building. A lot of the platforms, a lot of partners have put that sort of call for companies out there on their own platforms, whether that's looking up what they've been writing about on Medium, what they've been saying on different podcasts. Twitter seems to be a really good platform for a lot of investors. And then, of course, looking at their investments themselves. And I often find even as you start to mention that ask to the ecosystem, like even just putting out there on Twitter that you're looking for investor, good investors to speak with related to what you're trying to build. People are pretty helpful in redirecting and recommending people that you should chat with.

That's a great tip. Yeah, that's, that's exactly how we met, just like you said. Yeah, awesome. So Brianna from Vancouver wants to know, what materials should founders share with VCs prior to meetings? And then how can female founders keep VCs in the loop if they've had a meeting but did not yet receive funding from them?

So I think one of the best ways is by sending an investor update. I mean, I think that a lot of companies do either— there's so many different templates for this, but I find them to be really helpful. Just like a monthly newsletter, or even if it's like a quarterly update of just what you're focused on, what your goals are, and any asks and ways in which people within the community can be helpful. It really helps to build the relationship over time to see who are the most helpful people, as well as on the flip side, as an investor, It really helps me to understand how you're thinking about driving progress within your organization and how you're thinking about your roadmap.

Right. And we're, we're copied on a lot of those too at the Founder Institute. And I find the most interesting ones to include something about them personally. So something that they're working on or doing and showcases them as a, as a person. And those are the things that sort of draw my eye. In addition to, you know, a very well-structured update. So that's great feedback. And then one other thing is Joanna from New York wanted to know, should you build relationships with VCs before you're ready to raise? So, you know, a lot of it is preparation to raise and then the actual fundraising process, which is quite time-consuming. So what are your thoughts on that?

I think as long as you I mean, it's really more of a trade-off on time. And I find that it is just similar to overall networking and overall getting to know other people within the ecosystem. It's always helpful to build, start building that relationship ahead of when you need that relationship. But I do think it's much more of a personal preference. I personally prefer getting to know someone ahead of when they're looking to fundraise. I think that part of that is due to the fact that one of our values at Navron is SHIPS over ACTIONS, which is short for Relationships Over Transactions. And that's because we'd love to think about this partnership as a, as a long-term relationship versus a transaction. And like I said, that's more philosophical. And I also think that hopefully by building that relationship early, you do get a sense of that person's, you know, how that person or investor is thinking of making that decision. And I do think that, like I mentioned, there is a bit of a science to it, some shared knowledge on how people look at, or VCs look at investments. But at the same time, a lot of it is art and getting to know how someone, one makes that decision ahead of when you're raising, I think is always really useful to know.

Perfect. And then Barbara has a question. She said, warning, not, not necessarily a PC question, but she wants to know, What are your thoughts about bringing a man to meetings just to break the woman barrier? I am a strong woman, but I've noticed that investors seem more at ease when I bring a man, even if he says nothing.

I, I don't know. I guess that this is much more of a personal preference in terms of, you know, I guess, would, how would you feel if you worked with an investor who did, did feel more comfortable when you brought a male co-founder in, or I don't know. I mean, like, it's one of those things where I can speak from how I chose to work with the firm or how I chose to join Maveron. I wanted to be myself and I wanted to be— one of our values is being unapologetically non-normal. I think to a certain extent it is You want to work with a partner who gets you and who understands you and who knows what your superpowers are as well as where you need help and where you are looking to develop. And you want a partner who, I think, you have that strong psychological commitment that they're there for you regardless of, versus I think somebody who you have to potentially put on a facade for or come across as someone you're not.

Yeah, that's a great point. And that's a great value that Maveron has as well. Unapologetically. What was it again? Unapologetically.

Oh, unapologetically non-normal.

Non-normal. I love it. Yeah, that's a great value.

I mean, ours are those four: unapologetically non-normal, ship-sober actions, Profit and purpose. We believe that there isn't a trade-off between the two, and we look for businesses that achieve both and win the right way. It speaks to sort of how we work as a team. When you— when one of us invests, you get all of us. And then the way that we think about working with you is, is being an extension of your team and winning with you.

That's awesome. And Maja asked, how do I know that investors investors' values align with mine? So kind of similar to this, when you're looking for an investor who is well aligned with you, how, how can you sort of evaluate that as a founder?

I think as this is having the conversation around it, it's like, you have to know, I mean, all of you who are building companies, I have so much respect for what you do, because I know it's incredibly hard. It's a lot. Of coming to terms with who you are, why this matters, why is this so important? And of course you're, you're signing up to achieve something that's incredible and really, really hard to do. And when you meet a partner or when you meet an investor, I think it's trying to have that conversation around, are you aligned in what you are looking to achieve and who you are and why you believe that you're the right person to achieve it? And in trying to figure out that alignment, I always just say, be direct. Say that this is, this is what I, this is what I'm looking to do. Here are the values that I have and here's what's important to me. You know, what's important to you and what are you looking to do as a venture capitalist? What are your goals? And I think having that conversation upfront helps align the two of you on those values.

Awesome. Elle had a couple of questions. She wanted to know how important is it for an investor to take a seat on your board, upsides and downsides to that?

I think it depends on the stage and also the fund. So Madron, we are sort of core, what we consider a core investment is 3 to $3 to $8 million bet, we'll, we consider that the Series A. We typically lead the round and we take a board seat. And part of that is why I explained that we think about this partnership as a long-term relationship and having the, having an investor take a board seat, of course, this means that they are truly connected to you and connected to the business that you're trying to build. And And I think that they play a much bigger role in that success, the success of the business and that partnership. I think earlier on when you are raising sort of early-stage capital from angel investors or seed investors, I don't, a lot of times there probably isn't even a need for the board because you're instead looking to just get going and get to product market fit. So I really think it's about asking yourself, what value do you get of creating a board today? You know, a lot of the board is there for helping you stay. It's a forcing function and framework for helping you stay accountable to achieving the goals that you set out. But if it's too early for that, you probably don't need to create a board, and it probably doesn't mean that— it probably makes sense to try to raise money from investors that aren't looking to do that. But of course, there will be a certain stage where it makes a ton of sense to make sure that you are continued— that you continue to be aligned with the investors that have put in capital to your organization.

Perfect. Wonderful. We're going to move on to another section now, and this is how to Stand out and showcase your company's fundability. We're going to start answering a couple of questions from there. Colleen from New Jersey wanted to know what metrics should founders share with VCs in order to convey traction and engagement? And in this case, I think it's best to answer it from the consumer early-stage perspective that you guys are investing in at Maveron.

Yeah, and I can speak to— we do seize opportunistically as well. So At the seed stage, really what we're looking for is, you know, in some ways it is a lot about the team. You may or may not have built a product yet. You may or may not, you might have had a prototype, you might have really done a lot of customer research, but any sort of financial projection or any sort of, a lot of times we know that a lot of it is a projection and a lot of it is unknown at the seed stage. So we look for what are some indications that you have a unique insight into this consumer and what you're trying to build. Is there— one of the maveronisms we throw out there all the time is, is there a cauldron of consumer passion? And one of the ways in which you can show it is, of course, Have you built an audience that has shown demand for this product that you're trying to build? Is there a following that you've, you know, shown an engaged audience on any of the social platforms? If you've built a product, are there reviews and are there early sales that show that people really, really want this and that they can't live without it. And earlier on, you might not have a lot of the financials, but you may have indications like NPS or what we call sort of a— there's two ways to ask the NPS question or the Net Promoter Score question with your consumers. One is, would you recommend this? But another way to ask is, would you be sad? How sad would you be if this this product went away. And so just showing those examples and ways in which you have that call to consumer passion is incredibly helpful. And then of course, at the Series A, we're looking for product market fit. And, and what that means is that it's clear that there's something working. And really what you are looking to do is scale that business. And of course, that is when we do dive into by cohort, can we start to see, you know, evidence that there is strong engagement? So if you're building a social app or if you're building a consumer experience, when people sign up for this, are they continuing to be engaged after a month, you know, and long-term, what does that look look like? You know, what percentage of your customers continue to be engaged? And similarly, if we're looking for— if it is the e-commerce business, we're looking for, do we see repeat customers? And do we see them continuing to engage with your brand and your products long-term?

That's very, very helpful and detailed. That's wonderful. I think that'll, that'll help. Hopefully, Colleen, that answered your question. And the next question is from Linda. So she said, you mentioned team a lot as a critical factor for selecting a startup that you want to work with. How do you assess the quality of a team?

I think it— we look a lot for— I mean, in many ways, like I said, we first try to get to know you and your history and why this matters, because you are signing up for an incredible journey. And, you know, we want to really understand that underlying motivation, but also what insights you have on why this matters and why you uniquely are positioned to achieve that outcome and that vision. I also really try to get to know your level of self-awareness. How much do you understand your superpowers and the types of people that you'll need to hire to complement that. And then also, you know, a lot of investors speak about this as like founder market fit. So that, that is one. And then the other is like, given the hires that you've made so far, if you have, you know, what is your ability to continue to hire great talent? Because at the end of the day, for any of the businesses that we look to invest in, like I said, a multibillion-dollar outcome, you will be hiring hundreds, if not thousands of people and building an organization that, that can scale. And so to what extent can we assess early on that you have that determination and the raw talent and skill sets to evolve to do that?

Wonderful. And Nikki had kind of a related question to Linda's as well, which is If you see, how do you perceive solo founders versus small teams? So you're working in that the seed and Series A stage is where they're just starting to get going. And so is there a way to strengthen the appearance of being a solo founder or is there a bias at all?

I think, you know, to be honest, like there's been multiple examples of successful outcomes with solo founders, although there are a lot more examples, I believe, with multiple founders. And so there isn't obviously one path to success. I think it's trying to truly understand, like, if you've made the decision to start a company as a solo founder, just getting a better understanding of why and how you're thinking about that going forward. And and, and the sort of support and team that you're going to need to build around you.

Yes, and so Genevieve asked a similar question related to that too. Do you have any tips for acknowledging those obvious needs, right? So if you're a solo founder, you're obviously going to need to hire, you know, co-founders and a team at some point. When you're pitching, is it— how do you go— how do you best present yourself as a founder and also know that you have some various obvious needs, whether it be team or growth, to address?

I think it is a matter of, I don't know, I guess like I prefer that this is all about just understanding what those needs are and being very self-aware around those needs and around what you think you'll need and then communicating those things. In some ways it is more around your conviction on, given what you've learned and how you're thinking about this, this is what you think is the right path, but you'd love any sort of recommendations or advice given other people's perspectives. I mean, one of the things that I have learned over time, both in working at the startups that I have, as well as what I'm reminded of when working with my partners today, is a lot of it is in terms of growth is having strong opinions, weakly held. And when thinking through how to share what your superpowers are and where you believe are the biggest areas or challenges or where you need the most support. It's about having an opinion about it, given what you know. And then at the same time, making sure that people are aware that you're open to any sort of other insights related to that opinion, given other people's perspectives.

That's, that's really great feedback. And that's, I'm sure, a fine balance for founders, right, is making a clear ask, for example, or doing what your path is, And being able to defend it clearly, but at the same time, be open to feedback and insight from investors, advisors, and other people. So that's excellent advice. Yumi has a very—

Oh yeah, actually, on this in particular, I will like, just to be totally transparent, I think this has been a journey for me too. I mean, I think as a woman, it is, I think casually, like when we, you know, I was going to say, like, in terms of, um, there are two ways that I've sort of evolved on this. Like, one is, I think as a woman, I used to tend to present myself in, well, here's what I think, but I don't know, and I'm not sure, and I really don't know if this is the right answer, um, which is true and authentic, but at the same time, It also, I mean, one thing I've learned, in some ways it gives away your position of power. And it's important for you to come to the conclusion and conviction that you have an intuition, you have an opinion, and you should present it in a way that you have strong conviction about it. For me, for example, I, like a really, really tactical, tangible example is I have been thinking a lot as an investor, what is my thesis? Like, where do I want to focus? And I do have two areas of focus. And really it's coming to the realization that there's no right or wrong, but this is my opinion at the moment of where I think there is a big opportunity for multibillion-dollar companies to be built. And one is in the underserved needs within a woman's life. This is looking at all aspects of a woman's life. And I do believe that is underserved and underinvested in. It's looking at things like menopause, fertility, products and solutions for busy parents, products and solutions for girls at puberty. That's one. And then the other is looking at the future of human conversation and connection. Online and offline. I believe that obviously there's been tremendous platforms that have been built, but I do think that in any given online or offline platform that brings people together, there are many groups of people and segments of customers that are underserved and truly don't meet the need of human connection that I think is something that we all look for. So like I said, I could say that and I could also throw in, which is my natural inclination to say, well, but I'm not sure. And of course there's many other opportunities and possibilities in ways in which you can create, you know, outsized outcomes as an investor. But I think as a founder and especially as a female founder, Leaving it as stating your opinion and waiting for someone to react gives you— I mean, that would be my recommendation in terms of owning up to what you believe in.

Right. And not just disclaiming it right away before anyone has a chance to react. Yes, I'm guilty of the same. So I can definitely empathize. And I think that that's great advice for any woman listening on the call today. Okay. And so the next thing you actually ended up answering Yumi's question and sort of starting to answer it, which is what is the most important factor in a company that makes you want to invest? So you talked specifically about the types of companies you want to invest in. Is there an X factor in the company or you talked about superpowers that founders have, anything specific that sort of catches your eye very quickly?

I mean, I think it's the insight. It's really, really understanding the consumer. And it may take a while for you to get to that insight because especially if it's early on, there's so many unknowns, but it is about prototyping. It's about doing like that, speaking to the consumers and the audiences that you are building or working for. And, seeing what their needs are and potentially like having an insight that isn't obvious to many people as to why this is the solution.

That's wonderful. And then Lee Jay had a question too, which is, how do you change? And I like this question because it comes up a lot, specifically within the Female Founder Initiative. How do you change the perception of investors of your business if it's a lifestyle business, and how do you change that perception to make your business seem fundable?

I mean, I do think they're two different paths, right? I mean, nothing— there's a— I would love to kind of get some clarification on if you are building a lifestyle business, you probably don't need venture funding and you probably shouldn't take venture funding. But if it truly is sort of a venture-scale business, which is, like I said, within the 5 to 10-year window, you want to build a multi-billion-dollar company, then I think it is trying to convince, you know, write out a plan on how you want to get there. And, or taking these steps to showing that there is, incredible passionate consumer growth in a short amount of time. So it's almost like running a small experiment window where you're showing that, hey, like in this amount of time, I was able to achieve this much growth. If you just extrapolate that to the next, you know, couple of years, I'm going to continue to run at this pace. I'm truly showing that there is like something here. I'd love the opportunity to prove that I can get there.

Agreed. I know in the, in, in terms of fashion and beauty products specifically too, I think sometimes it's a, it's a matter of changing the founder's perception of their own business as well. And so sort of looking at it as what technology can you include in your company that could make this a venture scalable business? You know, like, you know, like ThirdLove or, you know, Warby Parker, these bigger companies that, yes, they sell consumer products that are, you know, in the clothing category, but they're much, much larger businesses at the end of the day.

Oh yeah, I was gonna say, like, I guess I don't ever— I actually consider a lot, like, what is— maybe it's coming back down to what is your perception of a lifestyle business. There are several venture-scale businesses that are in clothing, fashion, and beauty, and especially in our portfolio, like Allbirds, Everlane, Imperfect Produce, Dolls Kill, a lot of that stuff. I mean, there are so many companies out there now that have grown to venture scale, Glossier, Rent the Runway, that are in these specific categories.

Yes, I bring that up only because occasionally I'll have conversations with female founders who are, who are creating these types of companies, and they do the, the disclaim right up front, right, that they that there's a lifestyle business and therefore maybe there's— it's not tech-enabled. When I think that there's a way where you could think about it as being tech-enabled, and that's a great place to start if venture funding is a path you want to take, which is, which is really a fun and interesting conversation to have. And so we're going to— this is kind of a different question a little bit, but I am glad that it gets brought up. Do you believe in crowdfunding campaigns, Kickstarters, GoFundMes? And if so, what platform do you think is the best? Hmm.

I think that it is one way in which to show that there is consumer demand for your product. It's not a necessity, but it is a potential path to get started. I know that the Allbirds team started by running a Kickstarter. Uh, I don't know enough to give you a recommendation in terms of which path or which platform is the best one. Um, I would say that one way to work backwards is to look at out of all the companies that have achieved that sort of venture scale or venture size successful outcome. Many of them probably have started on these earlier crowdfunding platforms. Just reaching out to the founder to get a better sense of how do they make that decision.

That's a great, that's a great piece of feedback. Go directly to the source, right, and see which one is the best based on their experience. And then one other question to sort of Tangential to that is, do investors appreciate founders' previous fails as an opportunity or an opportunity of growth rather, or do they see as another risk of failure specifically for women founders?

No, I see it as everything in your life is actually part of who you are and what makes you, you. And I think that all of us have learned from all of our experiences collectively. So the, you know, the fact that you have seen what that, the fact that that was part of your journey and may fuel like what you are thinking about as the next step, it actually speaks to some of your superpower and some of the experience and knowledge that you have that will contribute to your grit in building sort of this next company.

Awesome. And then Verónica asked, when you talked about numbers, you said that it's— that you— when you— they provide numbers, when founders provide numbers in their pitch, they're subjective in the sense that there are some are actual and some are projections, right? And so she wants to know, how do we convince venture capitalists that the numbers are correct and that they've done their research in a succinct way?

Oh, well, before I answer that question, one more thought about the last one. I should mention that, I mean, to the point of failed companies, Pinterest, Ben Silverman, the CEO and co-founder of Pinterest, this, that was his third company. The first company that he did was through YC, that didn't work out. And then he did a second company that was sort of focused on mobile shopping, but that also didn't work out. And Pinterest was sort of the evolution of that.

That's a, that's a great point.

Yeah. I think a lot of times it does take a couple times before you can actually get it to work. And I think that's totally okay.

Yeah.

Oh, sorry.

I was gonna say, as a founder, it's really been about to just making sure you're showcasing those learnings, right? So like, what did you take away from that? That'll help you in this company.

Mm-hmm. And then in terms of showing the validity of your numbers, I think in some ways it is, just walking through how you came up with those numbers. You know, I think many investors know that especially early on without seeing like who your customers are and what their sort of engagement patterns are, it's really hard to extrapolate and come up with the right forecast. So I actually don't think it's, it's more like understanding what assumptions did you make and understanding why you made those assumptions. And as long as you have kind of a good understanding of what those assumptions are, I generally think most investors are, are okay with that because what, or at least that is what you want to share. Because in some ways, when they make the investment, I mean, we always say that we're investing in you as a founder, as well as we're aligned on the hypothesis and the assumptions that we're— you're making on how you want to achieve this vision. And then when those assumptions or the hypothesis changes, I think that is— those are the types of things that you want to keep your investors updated on to make sure that you're— you continue to be aligned with how you're building the business.

That's great feedback. And then Carolyn from Sacramento wanted to know, if you get a no from a VC, how do you get— how do you get them to sort of tell you why they didn't move forward with the investment? And I think what she's looking for too is actionable feedback as to why, right? So not just the, the no, but maybe later, or it's really great, but no, something that she can take and move forward on to her next conversation.

Yeah, I think it's asking. I think it's just, I've had founders sort of write and say, I, you know, I really appreciated the conversation that we had, would love to, if you're open to it, schedule some follow-up for feedback. Knowing that you're open to feedback is very helpful. And if, you know, if you're looking specifically for tactical feedback, I would just ask, like, this is one thing that I'm a little bit concerned about. Do you have any sort of tactical feedback around how to, how to discuss it?

That's great. And then Aaron asked, have you noticed different pitching styles between men and women founders pitching to you? And if so, is there something you think that women could do more or less of when they're pitching to give themselves a little bit more of an advantage and to try to just improve their pitch ever so slightly?

I don't, I guess like I don't see that there's a huge difference. I do think, More stereotypically, we do tend to see a lot. I mean, this is like the research that we've seen in the workplace where I forgot if it was Harvard Business Review that did a study that said that men overestimate their capabilities and women tend to underestimate their capabilities.

Yes, I believe I read that this morning. I think it was, it was HBR in 2014. That study.

Yes. Uh, so that similar effect tends to be true when we see people pitching. Um, a lot of times, uh, founders, male founders tend to be overly confident in terms of their projections and, um, women founders tend to underestimate what they can achieve. And we've actually seen an example of this within our portfolio of, um, women that we've invested in have actually continued to outperform, but they kind of under-promise and over-deliver. And I think that, you know, in terms of just being aware of that, and maybe even stating what you believe the range could be, because at the end of the day, projections are truly a range of outcomes that you're looking to hit. Could potentially help because I understand the struggle. I can totally relate. Like I know when speaking to a lot of women who have started companies, they want to ensure that they can achieve those goals. And they usually have shared that like, look, like this is what I know I can achieve. And there are studies that show that women kind of make sure that they're overly qualified before they apply before they sign up for, you know, or apply for that job or ask for that raise. And so just knowing that and being aware of that, potentially like ask yourself if you're doing that and see if there's an opportunity for you to push yourself or have a set of friends who can push you. That's my sort of hack. I personally, I personally struggle with this too. And I have a group of friends who I'm very thankful for that continue to tell me to just, I mean, one of my friends likes to always say, and it sounds very crass, but sometimes I need to hear it. My friend says, "Kat, you need to grow some balls." Just like, go do it. Don't think about it. You like, you don't need to think about this. And it sounds so silly to say, but I think that a lot of times as women, you need that cheering squad, or at least I need that cheering squad.

I don't want to speak for all women, but I need that cheering squad.

And so if you do too, and you're like me, I think finding that ahead of your conversation with an investor can be helpful.

100%. I have my work allies too. People, sometimes you just need to reflect things off some other people, right? And make sure, is that right? And then sometimes they can push you a little farther outside your comfort zone, right? Which would be tremendous and very helpful. OK, so we've got 2 final questions for you, and then we're going to have to wrap up because it's already been almost an hour, which is incredible. So the first question I have is, do you have any book recommendations? So for founders who are going to walk away from this today feeling like they've learned a lot about funding and want to learn more, do you have any book recommendations for them?

Yeah, I really recommend this book, Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke. It really speaks to, I think, in some ways how you make decisions with a lot of given unknowns. And I think it's helpful as a founder, as well as even for me, especially as an investor, you are going to make a lot of decisions and you want to make those decisions very thoughtfully without a lot of information.

That's a great recommendation. And then the last question I have is, do you have any final closing tips for female founders raising funding?

I think be you. I think be you, be the best version of you. And then there is In some ways there you will find the right partner.

That's great feedback. The right partner in venture funding or co-founder or both?

Well, I mean, venture funding in terms of, uh, in venture funding in terms of who you hire, understand like what your superpowers are. And by truly knowing yourself, you will Stay true to your North Star and build the right team around you.

Perfect. What a, what a perfect way to close it up as well. So, Kat, I want to thank you so much for your time, for giving us an hour of your time to answer these questions from, from female founders all over the world. We really appreciate you being here.

Thank you so much.

Yes.

And if anyone has any follow-up questions, I am open. My email is on Mavron. So it's like kat@mavron.com. So you can always email me.

Wonderful. That's a wonderful resource. And thank you again for your time. Thank you to everyone who submitted questions. We couldn't have this conversation without you, so we really appreciate it, you submitting them in advance and also joining us here today and submitting questions in the chat as well. Everyone will get a copy of this webinar in the next few days, and this is a recurring series, so we look forward to sharing the details of the next webinar with you as well. And I want to thank everyone for their time. Have a wonderful day.

Thank you.