Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't: A Conversation With Ryan Diess

So you got companies losing money. So a couple years ago, if you don't do something, everybody's going to hate you. Your employees are going to walk out, your customers are going to walk out. Now you do something, everybody's going to hate you. Your customers are going to walk out. Seems to me like if you're a business owner, you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

How much more successful would you be if you had lunch once a week.

With insanely successful entrepreneurs who share their biggest secrets on how they think and achieve success? Grab your seat at the table because this is Business Lunch with Roland Frazier and Ryan Deiss.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Business Lunch with your hosts, Ryan Deiss, which is not me. And me. And I'm Roland Frazier. We are here today to talk about fun and exciting stuff so that you basically get to join in the conversation that we would have if we were having lunch together. So, Ryan, how are you doing today?

I'm doing exceptionally well. And if we're talking about what I think we're going to talk about, I think we can officially title this the Roland and Ryan get canceled episode.

Yes, the Roland and Ryan risk cancellation show for sure. However, I'm feeling very survivally because I just survived a hurricane in California, in San Diego, where we had the first tropical storm watch we've ever had. It turned out basically to be light rain and my glass, my windows steamed up from the humidity. But other than that, there was, I guess some people actually got hit with it. But it was really interesting how, how scary they were trying to make it and then how non scary it actually turned out to be.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, I mean, I was, you obviously were not panicked. I was panicked on your behalf, as you all know.

Well, you, you went through like, hey, it's all going to be okay. And then you had no water. So I get.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, growing up in Texas and having, having a place on the Texas coast, you know, I've been impacted by hurricanes a number of times and they absolutely do suck. And they will definitely come and just take everything away. You had a house, but now you just don't. I don't think it's quite as cruel as a wildfire. You think about what some of the other folks are going through in different.

Parts of the world.

I think that, I think wildfires are the only thing more cruel than a hurricane, but they both just absolutely suck. And so, yeah, when I, when I saw there's a hurricane going up The Baja Peninsula.

I'm.

I'm worried because I'm like, man, all these Southern Californians, they don't really know how to do hurricane. And I know you, you know, you. You play a wealthy Californian on tv, but you grew up in, you know, Virginia. Virginia's got hurricanes.

We. We had tornadoes where we would go down into the shelter. Like, there was like, group shelters we had to go to down. And I remember sitting there thinking, you know, why do people live in this area? But anyway, but, yes, so, But. But most people have not. And Don, my wife who grew up here, she. She was like, I don't. I just have no idea what to expect. So, well, and so down. Got already, you know, turned our umbrellas and our stuff down and, and all the things that would fly about the yard with a heavy wind gust. And, you know, we got light rain. So it was kind of interesting.

I think part of my concern was Emily. My wife is talking to me. She's like, you need to talk to Roland. Because I'm texting with dawn and she doesn't seem to, like, know what a hurricane, like, how to prepare for hurricane. She's never been in it. And so basically, Emily felt like my wife. Felt like your wife wasn't adequately panicking enough about the situation. And so it was vital that I panic enough to make up for her panic and the lack of your wife's panic. And at the end of the day, a delightful summer shower is what you got.

Yes, yes. But the good news is we were prepared. So had. Had. Had we not had water. We had, you know, but we always have hundreds of liters of water sitting around anyway, because I'm. I'm like, I've been through some stuff and I'm always ready for. For that. But we generally just leave as, you know, like, they're like, there's a fire coming your way. I'm like, we're leaving. The power is going to be out. We're leaving. You know, this one I kept looking at, and I was just like, I just don't see that it's going to be enough of something. Even if it had been everything that they thought it might have been that it would cause, because it was also only for a day. Right? It's like, it's for a day, you know, so it seemed like it was not going to be a big deal. But anyway, let's see if we can give some actual value to the people who are.

Well, I mean, I will. I will say at business lunch, it's like, if they were sitting with us, you know, over lunch, and we were having a conversation. We'd be talking about the weather, but now we're through. That what I would want to talk about next, if we were sitting at lunch and I kind of meant what I said, I think that this episode has a chance of maybe getting us into trouble, depending on how it goes. But it is a conversation that entrepreneurs I know everywhere are having, but almost nobody's having it in public and out loud because everybody's afraid of the same thing, which is getting canceled. So I'm going to set this up, right? I'll give you the setup, and then I want to hear your take on it. I want you to go first so that when you ultimately say the things that get you canceled, I can just go, I disagree with all that, and then leave.

I can't believe that he said that. Right, Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

I have your voice clone. I refer you back to our AI automation.

That's true. All right, then we'll try to keep it classy. All right. So I met, just through happenstance. I got connected up with another entrepreneur here in Austin, where I live. And we were chatting and at a. At a school function. Our kids go to the same school and just talking about business. And it turns out, like, he owns this donut coffee shop that I've actually gone to a number of times. I think it's a great place. I was like, oh, cool. I love, you know, love your place. How's business? Kind of what any entrepreneur would ask anyone. And the nice thing about entrepreneurs is generally you meet another entrepreneur, and somebody asks, how's business? You kind of look around. It's like, do you want the real answer? You know? And it's like, yes. We had a real conversation, and this guy was really struggling, and I think he's gonna be fine. Like, things are on the upswing, so this isn't a sob story. But he's like, man, he's like, everything was great. And then Covid happened, and I was like, yeah, Covid sucked. He's like, no, you don't understand. It wasn't Covid. We were doing okay. We were making it work. But I had, like, a complete staff revolt. What do you mean? He said, well, I was trying to keep business afloat. I wanted to keep everybody employed. I didn't want to just furlough everybody.

So.

So we had it set up. You know, we're trying to be ultra safe. One person in the kitchen at a time. Everybody's masked up, making donuts. We were still selling. We were selling outdoors, we were selling in parks. Like, I'm trying to do everything that I can, but the people that work for me are saying that I'm not doing enough, that I'm not taking it seriously, and that I just need to shut down the whole business and pay them anyway, right? So they're already mad at me. And then you have the George Floyd protests go down. And now they want me to make this big statement about kind of as a company, our stance on that and, and, and Black Lives Matter and all this. And you know, my response was like, yo, we're just like, I care about this. And by the way, this is not some, you know, Trump flag flying, right wing person. I mean, this guy is, is definitely on the left early side of things. And he's like, let's, let's just make donuts. Let's go try to make people happy. You know, we make the greatest thing in the world, donuts at cost. Like, what if we just make donuts? And they were so upset with this entrepreneur that a couple of his employees actually attempted to stage a walkout. Did succeed in staging this whole walkout, but they had this plan of taking every donut they made that day and throwing it on the curb, you know, out of protest. And he obviously had to lay a bunch of people, you know, let a bunch of people go, because you can't just do that. And it basically messed up his entire business. So it reminded me of that time because I remember it, I remember, like the pressure, you know, of, of you need to make a statement. But then fast forward to today and I was reading an article and again, I know this is an incredibly long setup. We're going to get to the discussion. Bear with us, listeners. But you know, news article, I saw it in Bloomberg, bunch of other ones. Anheuser Busch, Target. Kohl's lost a collective 28.7 billion in market valuation beginning in April amid a backlash of basically taking political and cultural stances on everything under the sun, right? So you got companies losing money. So a couple years ago, if you don't do something, everybody's going to hate. Your employees are going to walk out, your customers are going to walk out. Now you do something, everybody's going to hate you, Your customer's going to walk out. Seems to me like if you're a business owner, you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't. And it just, you know, as somebody who feels primarily, you know, for entrepreneurs, I just want to know, like, let's look at this. Let's try it as best that we can to remove the politics, to remove the cultural issues, to remove religion, to remove hate. Like, let's do the best that we can. And I know you can't. I probably already got canceled by that mere assumption. But trying our best to do this. Thinking about the entrepreneurs, Roland, first principles. What do you do? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There is no winning. How do you win?

Well, I guess it to me a general comment is that I see. I think it's. We are an interesting species because of the things that we do to control one another and this need that we seem to have to have other people have to share our views or they are bad or wrong. And I think it's sad because that's not really what we built the whole country on, the ability to have freedom of speech. So I think that first principles. I start with everyone has the right to freely express themselves and their opinions. And then it comes down to do you want to support those opinions and beliefs or do you not? It is sad to me that we have so much bullying by people who have views trying to force other people to either suppress their views or to adopt the views that they do not currently have. And so I guess, like, that's, that's where I start is, is I believe in the Constitution that we have here in the United States that says that we all have the right to free speech and we should be able to express ourselves. I think that that is coming ever increasingly under fire when you say things that people don't like. But at the same time, people get to vote with their feet. And so if you don't like, if you don't like what the donut person does or you don't like target supporting what target supporting or Bush supporting what Bush is supporting, then you have the right, as you should, to vote with your wallet. Right to vote with your feet and leave. To vote with your wallet and not patronize that business. So I guess in terms of like, how do we, how do we remedy the situation? I'm not sure that you can fix human nature, but I do believe that.

I mean, certainly not with that attitude.

Yeah, exactly. You didn't even believe you can. Or whether you believe you can't, you're right. But I really do think that, that if you, you know, I guess it would just be maybe a campaign of tolerance that we say, you know, hey guys, this is, we're all out here, we all have different beliefs and thoughts and we all have the right to express them. And isn't it wonderful that we do have the right to express them? Because if we didn't, we. We would live in a totalitarian state where they come in the black masks and cart you off and throw you in jail for, you know, definitely questionable claims against you or crimes. So that's such a gift that we have where we live. Could we perhaps embrace tolerance more? Because all of the people that are bullying one another, the people that the employees that were bullying, to me, the guy by saying, we're gonna hurt your business. We want. We don't want to just express what we think and share that thought with you.

We want to hurt you.

And, you know, you would say that.

Throwing a bunch of donuts on the curb does not qualify as legitimate free speech.

Oh, no, it does. It absolutely does. Right that. But at the same time, it's like, you can. I can say, ryan, you look like crap. I think you're a horrible person. But why would I do that? Because that's like, what's. To what end am I doing that?

You know, so should the person who threw out the donuts or wanted to, like, conspired to do that, should they not have been fired?

Should they not have been fired? I believe that you have the. You should have the ability to have the people work with you that you want to work with you. And so if somebody is working against your business, I don't think you should be required to continue to employ them. But in. In terms of, like. Because I remember when you and I were talking about it during several of these things, and we were talking about, you know, should the company take a stand? And honestly, I. I don't like it when companies take stands. I. I feel pressured by them to do something when I'm sitting on the airplane. Even, you know, this is. This is a more innocuous one. But it's annoying as heck to me. When I'm sitting on the airplane and they're trying to sell me a credit card, and they're broadcasting it over all of the televisions and audio that I can't turn off, and they stop everything else that they're doing and make me listen to their message. That annoys me. I feel that I'm being bullied into supporting the cause that they've got when I'm at the register and they say, you know, will you give a dollar to this or a dollar to that? And I think to myself, you know, is that okay for them to ask? I'm annoyed because now I feel Like a bad person. But I also maybe don't want to support that cause or, you know, I have my other things that I already support, and so am I now obligated to support all of that? So it's a difficult question. I think if we could just get to the point where. Where we are, we. We do tolerate and say, you know, hey, look, donut shop example. Hey, look, donut guy. We don't feel that this is fair. And so we are concerned about our health and would like to have the ability to not work. I think that donut shop guy probably ought to respect that from those people if they approach it respectfully requesting. But if it's just mass mutiny and I'm donut shop guy, I'm kind of mad. I'm kind of like, you're trying to hurt my business and my family's living. And so that's really not cool. You. You went about this in an unprofessional, unkind way. So, you know, you want to take my things that I create to try to bring joy to people and smash them on the street. I feel like that's disrespectful. And I don't want you to work for me, although you do have the right to go out and do that. I disagree with that as the way that you're going about it. And I just feel like that's kind of. It is just if we. We understand that we all have these rights, they're necessarily going to conflict with the thing, like the things that people use in expressing themselves, like burning a flag. You know, I'm not a flag burner, but should somebody have the right to burn the flag according to the Constitution, freedom of expression? They should. But then there's a whole bunch of people who are like, you can't burn the flag. We believe in that. And everybody gets into a fight about it. But I guess just, man, going back to thinking about what is the foundation of the Constitution and our system of government that says that everybody should have the right to express themselves. All of these people should have the right to express themselves. And if the public says we disagree with that and don't want to support you, and that costs you $28 billion in market cap, then so be it. You get to decide how strongly do I feel I need to express myself and am I willing to take that risk? And if you are, then you should. And if you're not, then you might want to ask yourself about your convictions, about the things that you believe in. But it's, I guess that's kind of where I, I don't know that there's anything actionable on that other than could you be kind, could you not bully people and, and respect the amazing right. That we have to express ourselves. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I mean, I think as, as business owners, the solution really has to come down to what are your values? And because you said like no business should feel coerced to do something they don't want to do. What you're basically saying is you shouldn't force me to say something is valuable when I don't necessarily think that it's valuable or I don't necessarily think it's valuable in this business context. So for me, and you know this, I'm a religious guy, like I'm a Christian. Right. I'm a God fearing man, go to church on Sunday kind of person. Like that is who I am. I don't feel like somebody absolutely has to believe the same thing I believe. To work for me or to be a customer or a client.

Yeah.

Now there are other people who do you take Dave Ramsey, for example. Dave Ramsey doesn't necessarily require that everybody, you know, a Christian, but to work for him or to be a customer. But he's going to be very overt about those beliefs. And in saying, if you're aligned with these values, then we're the place for you. If you're not aligned with these values, then we're probably not. Now, I don't think that that makes me any less of a Christian or Dave more of one. I think it just means like this company, this is a vehicle, like what do we want to do? What do we want to paint? You know, what color do we want to paint the vehicle? Who do we want to invite to join us on the ride? That's the values of a business. And so I think as long as you, if you want to say no, we are absolutely a company that prioritizes and we are going to espouse certain values, then when there is an opportunity to do that, you absolutely should. But if you haven't, and if you don't, then to pretend like you do because it might be politically advantageous, culturally advantageous to me is a bigger fraud than saying nothing at all. At least if you say nothing at all, you're like, I don't have an opinion on this yet. You could argue that I should.

I don't. Right.

I'm sorry, I just freaking don't. But I think it's good for companies and I believe that we've been given A playbook. Do you remember you familiar with like Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase?

No.

So Brian Armstrong, who's the CEO of Coinbase, you know, you probably know what Coinbase is. It's generally irrelevant.

Yeah, no, I just don't know anything about him.

So what he did, and I thought this, and he did this at a time. It was September 27, 2020. Okay, September 27, 2020. So I mean, you're talking about being in the thick of all of it. He came out and basically said, look at Coinbase, we're going to be a mission focused company. And so his thing is provided a couple of principles that, that I think now really is the playbook because they're a couple of years into this and it seems to have worked. He caught a lot of heat and a lot of flak early on, but they were able to weather the storm. A lot of people left, a lot of new people joined, but I think it came down to values. And he said, you know, we've decided we're going to do a couple of things. Number one, we're going to be company. We're going to be company first. You know, we're going to, we're going to put the company's goals ahead of any particular team or individual goals. Just that I think is so important. Just saying we are a company, this company is in business to make money. Yeah. Now we're going to do that by serving our customers. But like, I love just the acknowledgment of like, we're going to make decisions as a company based on what's best for the company. Not any single individual, not any single team, and definitely not any third party constituency. Number two, we're going to act in service of the greater mission. But this is critical. You have to define a greater mission. They said they've united as a team to try and accomplish something that's different, that is in, you know, kind of the crypto space. Now you can completely disagree with that mission, think it's completely stupid. And that's fine. That's simply saying that probably not a good fit for you if you're bought into it. But they're saying we're going to align around this mission, not that mission over here. And it doesn't mean that other mission doesn't matter. It's just that's not our fight is basically what he's saying. We're going to default to trust. So we're going to assume positive intent. That goes to what you were saying. Let's assume that somebody didn't mean to make me feel mad. Let's focus on what unites us, what unites us, not what divides us. And let's sustain high performance. Basically, kind of let's, let's act as a team. So he essentially came out and said, we're not going to take a stance on this. Our stance is we ain't taking a stance. We will only take a stance on what is our mission. I think this is a pretty tremendous gift that he gave to entrepreneurs by going first that I've seen more companies adopt. So that when somebody comes along and says, hey, what's our stance on this political thing or this religious thing or this cultural thing? You could say, as a company, we have none. As an individual, if you want to do that, we support, you know, you in doing that. I might support it as an individual, but as a company, we're not. And I think just to the entrepreneurs out there, I would, I would say don't. It's your business. Don't feel pressured to make your business say something that you wouldn't have said on your own.

Of course, is then, are you abnegating your social responsibility, which assumes that you have one. Are you abnegating your social responsibility to use the position of the company and the reach that it has that the individuals behind the company may not have to actually give back and do some social good in addition to doing the mission of the company? And that's. That's the challenge, right? Some people think that it should, some people think that it shouldn't. Some people agree, some people don't. In this case, the interesting thing is that a few people that make the decisions at Anheuser Busch and Target are making decisions about their personal convictions that have a tremendous adverse impact on the shareholders of the business who didn't get any real say in that at all. So then it's like, well, so you're going to take your views in this department that is responsible for handling this, and then what's the process for determining what is the company's view? And since the company isn't actually a person, can it have a view? And, you know, if it does, do we need to reconcile that view with the mission, which is what he was saying? But then also, what about our duty to the shareholders? Who are the people that we're ultimately supposed to be serving? Does it serve the shareholders of the company to have the company take potentially controversial positions? And that's a tough thing to answer. You know, I don't know that there is a right or right Answer. But I definitely know that there's some pension funds and some people who were counting on the value of that stock to support them that now don't get to count on that. And they may or may not share the views that the company shared, and they're nonetheless responsible or ultimately suffering the consequences of what the market views, the decisions that the company that those owners have made, which to me makes it very complicated and argues towards, well, maybe the companies should do it the way that the Coinbase guy said, right? Maybe they should be agnostic, socially agnostic, and the people at the companies can do what they want and the company could make, maybe the ability, could make opportunity, could create opportunities for the people at the companies to connect with one another, to advocate their causes on their own time, doing their own thing. But, but I do, you know, I do lean towards divorcing those two things because I, you know, my personal experiences is just don't pressure me. I, I want to buy a cup of coffee. Don't make me take a stand on something because I want to have a cup of coffee. I can't go there because that coffee shop believes in this. And I can't, you know, but I'm gonna go here because this coffee shop believes in that. It's like, why do I have to make those decisions? I don't want to. I want to get to decide on my own, you know, And I guess then the other side of that is. But you are deciding on your own, Ryan and Roland, because that coffee shop is a vote for that thing, and that coffee shop is a vote for that thing, you know, so it's a very complicated. I don't know that there is a good right or wrong answer.

I'm going to suggest, and again, this is probably going to get. Get me canceled. I'm going to suggest because you said, like, how do we use, you know, should we use this power that we have as a business, as a company, this platform? You know, aren't we obligated? Don't we have a responsibility to use it for the forces of, you know, of good? To me, this is like Spider man morality. Right? With great response, with great, you know, strength or with great gifts come great responsibility. Sure. But who decides what you're responsible to? I think ultimately it's the owners of the business. If it's a solo enterprise, is the business owner, it's the shareholders. They should approve the vision, mission and values of that company. And if it aligns with that, then by all means, full speed ahead. But if it doesn't that doesn't mean it's bad. And it's this bind. It's this simplistic binary thinking that if you're not, like, 100% for us and on our camp, and if you're not doing this, then you're against us, that I just reject. And I'm going to suggest to other entrepreneurs out there that it's okay for you to reject it as well. I don't think that because I don't force our collective companies, you know, Roland, to have overtly Christian themes in everything that we do, that that makes me a bad Christian. It means the job of the company is to do something different.

Yeah.

And so. And if another Christian were to say that to me, I'd be like, no, shut up.

You can't have that.

I don't give that to you. But we do it with other things that we feel like have greater political influence and power over us. Right. We'll let them have it. Not because they're right, but because we're afraid of them. It's what you said. It's being bullied. So I just think, as a business owner, if you wanna guard against this, protect against this, be really crystal clear on who it is that you're fighting for, and I'm gonna encourage that. You make it your customer, your client. Right. That you're advocating for them. Bud Light advocated for a particular type of beer drinker.

They did.

And they did it well for a really long time. And then they didn't just swing the pendulum the other way. They actively said, we don't want you. Which is the thing that really pissed. I mean, I know plenty of Bud Light drinkers. They didn't get mad about the transgender thing. They got mad when they came back and said, well, we don't like those drunk rednecks anyway. That was what pissed them off more than anything. So I think just being clear on, this is who we are. This is who we serve. There's other costs that matter. That's great. But we can't be responsible for everything. That's why there's lots of charities that, you know, there's governments. We can't do everything. And because we can't do everything, we have to pick. We pick this. And if it ain't this, we may not get on board publicly about it. I think that has to be okay. And I want entrepreneurs and business owners to collectively, as a group, decide that that's okay, and to band together if somebody picks on our own.

Yeah, I like that. And I think also it would Be fair to have a disclosure that we are a cause company or we are a mission company. So if we're a cause company, then understand there's some risk that's inherent. Like if I'm thinking like an attorney even, or an investor, it's where is my risk in this company? If I'm going to decide to put my money into a company as an investor, as a shareholder, whether a small one or a large one, then do I have a voice in that? I probably don't. Because unless I'm a controlling shareholder, your vote is going to be aggregated with a bunch of other people. And so you have a little bit of a voice, but not much of one. But what I should know going into making the investment and risking my retirement income and portfolio is I should know, is this a company that is going to take up causes and therefore creates a risk that there will be a dramatic devaluation or, or increase in valuation as a result of one of the causes the company takes? Or is this company cause agnostic and focused on the business of the mission of the company and therefore it runs the risk of being accused of not being socially responsible, but it doesn't run the risk of being on the wrong side of a cause and having some huge devaluation take place because of one of the positions that it takes. Because to me, like, that's a real risk. And so when we go and say there's $28 billion of value that just evaporated because of how someone at Bud Light decided to respond to the situation that happened, that's a pretty significant risk. And I haven't ever seen it warned of, despite the fact that we're supposed to warn about all possible risks. So even from a legal standpoint, I wonder, would there be a cause of action that the shareholders of Anheuser Busch would have against management for not disclosing the risk that they're going to take these positions. Right. That, that. It's an interesting legal question too.

I think, well, we may not have solved the issue, we may have gotten ourselves canceled. But if nothing else, we gave tort, you know, and legal, the legal profession opportunity to go and sue some people. And I think at the end of the day, if we accomplished that it was worth it. Was worth it. Yeah.

Yeah. If we can create some class actions out there, then I think we're adding value to the world. Right.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Earth. Oh, geez. Should we leave it there?

I like it. Yeah. If you guys enjoyed this, then we would love to hear about it. If you didn't, then we would prefer not to. But if you did enjoy it and would like to share it, we would appreciate that. If you would like to leave us wonderful reviews. We're all for that and we really do. To me, it's a, it's an interesting discussion and so we'd love for you to hit us up and let us know what you think about this particular topic and this how you want to deal with this with your company. But I do think the one thing that we, we brought out seriously would be thinking about do you want your company to be a cause company or do you want your company to be a mission company and understanding the risks of each of those things and then you go with what you believe in. But I think having that be a conscious decision you make instead of being bullied or bandied about by the media and the pressure of people around you. If you know where you stand, then you can respond. Look, we're a mission company and so we're not going to deal with that or we're a cause company. You're right. But we fall on the other side of the cause. So we're not going to support what you say. We're going to say what we say or whatever. But let us know what you think and thank you guys for listening. Ever wonder how some people build real wealth through acquisitions while others just sit on the sidelines? Well, I'm here to tell you it's not about luck. It's about having the right system, the right deals and the right guidance. And that's exactly what we give you in the EPIC Deal fast track. If you've been thinking about buying a business, but you keep getting stuck, whether it's finding the right deal, structuring the financing, or negotiating with sellers, you are not alone. Too many people waste months, even years just thinking about acquiring a business while the real opportunities pass them by. The EPIC Deal fast track is not another course. It's actually an implementation program. And it's designed to get you from the idea to the acquisition in just 16 weeks or less. We work with you one on one to help you find, fund and close your first or next deal. And once you do, we're going to plug you into our elite EPIC board community so that you can keep scaling through acquisitions. We install three powerful systems in your business. The first is the deal flow engine so you always have high quality off market deals coming to you. Number two, we give you our offer and funding system so that you can structure offers that get accepted and fund them creatively many times with no money out of your own pocket. And number three, our closing and integration system so that you don't just buy a business, you actually successfully run and scale it once you have acquired it. Plus you'll have direct one on one support from an epic deal advisor every step of the way. And that's people that have actually come up through this system and done these deals themselves. That's the only way to become an epic Deal advisor. And if you're serious about acquiring a business this year, don't just sit on the sidelines. Just text I'm in to 334-458-9034 and we'll get you in. So text I'm in to 334-458-9034. We'll get you in. No fluff, no wasted time, just real deal making from people that are actually out there doing deals right now.

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