From Side Hustles to Software Success: The Entrepreneurial Journey of Robin Alex

That's cool. And I think going through what you went through too, you can relate so much more. It's, it's just, I do think that's good for kids in terms of choice, not being forced down one of those paths, you know, is, is definitely going to allow you to be able to be who you want to be much, much more, which is really cool. So I am very, very excited to have you here today, guys. High Level is one of the coolest platforms that we have. And I get it mixed up, Robin. Is it Go High Level or High Level?

The actual company is High Level, but domain is gohighlevel.com it's a lot cheaper.

So when we're talking about the product, do we say Go High Level or do we say High Level?

Whatever is easier for you to remember it. I mean, at the end of the day, we want you to put your own brand on it and call it whatever you'd like to.

Okay. I always say go because, I guess because that's the thing. But so I want to first introduce you. We have a little intro that goes. So people have already seen that, but I'd like for you to kind of introduce yourself, tell your story a little bit, and then let's dig into the entrepreneurial journey.

Yeah, yeah. So my name is Robin Alex, one of the co founders here at High Level. We are an all in one AI powered CRM platform tool. And really what we've done is taken all the different software applications that most businesses need and use. And we said the biggest problem is you have 15 different applications. Not only do you have to figure out how to glue it all together, but now you have to maintain and monitor all that. So what we've done is put it all into one place, made it super easy to use, and then we allow you to put your own brand on it. And you know, many people who typically set this up are marketing agencies or digital, you know, citizens in many ways. So they're out in the world actually representing the software as their own, which it is, and they're able to monetize against it.

Yeah, and we do that. So we, we've got a whole iteration for people who want to acquire businesses. And we call it Epic Business Suite. But it's, you know, it's, it's High level all the way in the back. And it's been really cool to watch because maybe. Well, actually I have so many things I want to ask you. So first let's talk about your personal entrepreneurial journey and then let's talk More about high level. How did you get involved in the world of being an entrepreneur?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there was anything special to like dip my toes into it. It was just something that was born in me, I guess, in bred in many ways. I mean, I was the kid, you know, selling candy to all my neighbors when I probably shouldn't have been, you know, selling CDs for friends, you know, with music and stuff like that, which is totally not the right thing to do. But you know, 15, 20 years ago, that was the thing. But you know, over time, I started a company at the age of 17 selling game servers online. So games like Counter Strike, you know, battlefield 1942, I actually created a decent sized business and actually I ended up selling it because my grades weren't that great at university. So my parents pressured me to sell it or really to close it down. I ended up selling it, not realizing that was an acquisition that someone took on. And crazy story about that is the company that bought it actually was acquired by a company who then sold it to Rackspace, who's not a publicly traded company. So it's cool, you know, tangentially to be like, wow, that's your baby, right?

I mean, yeah, that's super fun.

Two or three degrees of separation from that. And being 18, 19, 20 years old, you just don't really realize there's a bigger world that's out there. It's just kind of in the mode of I just need means to an end.

How did that go in terms of with the parents? Because I think that's a big thing these days is that the world has changed from go to school, then go to college and then get a degree and then go get a job. There's so many more opportunities and so many things you can do. And, and I think a lot of parents have had a hard time adjusting to that. How did that work out for you and how did they kind of end up dealing with it?

Yeah, so it's definitely tough. So, you know, I come from an immigrant family. You know, my parents both came from India and came to the United States and you know, they come in with a typical immigrant mindset of we came over to the United States to make a new life for our kids and to give them opportunities that they didn't necessarily have. And, you know, that really comes down to, you know, they're going to have, you know, my dad was a mechanic and my mom was a nurse and they worked extremely hard and they just looked at it and saying, you know, I want our kids to succeed. And by them succeeding means you got to get a degree. They need to be an engineer, doctor, attorney, you know, basically that professional degree. And that's success to them. And so when they see me not only going to college to, you know, in their mind pursuing these things, but here I am actually in the dorm room running a business. It's, it's counterculture to what they've thought. And even in their circles and friends and community, that's the traditional path. And that's actually what I grew up in as being Indian. And so that was why there was a lot of pressure in me selling it. But, you know, I think the challenge that I had even when I sold it was I'm still an entrepreneur at heart. So I kind of felt like I was running this, you know, two lives in many ways of like, I still want to make my parents happy, so I'm going to have that, but I'm still going to always have something on the side and, you know, still going to try pursuing both. And that's honestly what I did from that point on. And it wasn't until, you know, probably 15 years ago where, you know, I still graduated college just to check that off of my parents bucket list to make sure that I did that. But at a certain point they just realized that he's always going to have a business, like there's nothing that we could do to deter it. And then once they saw that I was actually able to produce substantial income and take care of the family and things like that, I think they realized that it's not as bad. And I do think that the culture of the world, having different opportunities, different businesses, has shifted quite a bit to where it's very mainstream now, where if you honestly don't even have a side hustle, what are you doing in life? Which I think is also bad. Right? Like, and that's the problem with the world that we're at.

We always shift to the extremes, grind, grind mentality, right. Where you always have to be doing something. No days off. It's. Yeah, that's not necessarily good either.

You know, it used to be that, you know, there are certain people that are business owners and then it's also great to be an employee. And we used to live in these extremes of like two different things, but now it shifted to the other side, where if you don't have a business, if you don't have a side hustle, if you're not opening up eins every single day, you, you are a failure. And I Think that's horrible as well. Right. Like, it's just, it's funny how the world shifts in that, in that way.

It always swings back and forth. Now, do you have kids?

I do. I have a son who's seven, he's about to turn eight next week, and a three year old daughter.

Okay. And you're driving them to be doctors or lawyers, right?

No, I'm kind of, I'm open to anything and everything. We are, they're young, so it's really hard to tell and their things that they enjoy shifts daily. But you know, we are watching what kind of toys they play with and what do they like to do, you know, know, just through normal conversation, I think my daughter actually might get into something in the medical field. She's, she always leans into the toys where it's like, oh, let me check your heartbeat and stuff like that. And my son, you know, he's into music and you know, beat making and stuff like that. So maybe college is not the right answer for him. But you know, I'm open to any and all ideas. I don't think there's a one size fits all for everybody.

That's cool. And I think going through what you went through too, you can relate so much more. It's, it's just, I do think that's good for kids in terms of choice. Not being forced down one of those paths, you know, is, is definitely going to allow you to be able to be who you want to be much, much more, which is really cool. Okay. So yeah, you sold your business. Now you are businessless and in college not really loving what that's like, what happens next.

I definitely had an existential crisis at that point. You know, I needed to figure out how to get my grades back up because I was on the academic probation list and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, let me concentrate on that. But then I just felt like I was not doing anything productive in life at the same time. But by luck, I had a friend there who was saying that they got a job at a company and they were looking for interns and they heard about me selling this company and so they really wanted me to join. So I was actually an intern for them and developed a piece of software that, you know, helped grow that, that business and it was actually a part of Oracle. I'm sorry, it was under SAP and we were doing Oracle third party support and stuff. So I got to learn big business culture and it definitely gave me exposure in how businesses actually run. Not kind of from the startup Perspective, but more established businesses. And then unfortunately, the software that I was building and things like that created a large lawsuit. I mean, when you get Oracle and SAP fighting, it doesn't end too well. And so unfortunately, that company folded, which led me back to being a true entrepreneur again. And this is where I got into IT consulting. And in IT consulting it, you know, I typically leaned on small businesses. That's what I really understood. I could talk to a business owner, really understand their pains and needs. And at that time, businesses were spending an absorbing an amount of redoing their IT closets, servers, equipment, things like that. You know, they spend north of six figures in adding that infrastructure and at the same time they're spending exorbitant amounts in new websites, their digital marketing landscape and things like that. I would typically lean on helping the business on the IT side, the technical servers and things like that. And because they had a trusted relationship with me, they would get these quotes and bids on the digital marketing side saying, hey, you know, technology, can you review this and just give us your opinion? And I would just look at these and basically say, you know what, they're charging that much money, I could probably do it myself and probably do it cheaper and it'd be a great win. And that's where I started getting into digital marketing. And that's when you start learning about scope creep and all the different challenges associated to that when you take on a project that you probably shouldn't have. But it gave me a lot of exposure and a lot of battle scars along the way. And I learned about feast and famine, right? You pick up a big project, you get the scope creep and all that, but once the project is done, you don't have anything else coming in the door. And so immediately I shifted into, well, how can I keep helping the business there? And that was of course, recurring revenue some sort of way, which I knew how to do on the IT side, but on the digital marketing, how do you do that? And that's where we got into more performance marketing, right? So digital ads, Facebook ads, Google Ads and all that. And it's really, how close can you get to the revenue line? If you can really help a business grow, they want you to stick around forever. And so through that transition, that's where I spun up a marketing agency. And we ran that for about eight years or so, grew to about 25 people around the world representing about 200 or so customers. So decent size, but this is actually what kind of led us into high level today, where it's the problem That I always had was I can walk in, help a business and generate them a ton of interest, whether it's leads, contacts and appointments and, you know, all the typical things there. But the problem is the business owner was always going to be the business owner. You know, the dentist is always going to be the dentist. The flower shop owner's always going to worry about flowers. They're not going to call people, they're not going to try booking appointments, they're not trying to close over the phone. That's just not them. And it wouldn't matter how much effort our team did, we did incredible work. We would still be the person on the chopping block saying, I signed up to you. You're supposed to give me money or make me money. And we're looking at it as saying, well, we gave you everything up to the 90% mark. You're supposed to get the last 10% to make that happen. And it was just a weird crossing. And so I was sitting at a crossroads of how do I grow the business from here? Is it, you know, we just need to get aggressive with sales to make up the difference there. So I got to hold bunch of fireworks going on. But on the other side of it, it's, can we solve this as a problem? So my team actually mapped this whole thing out on a whiteboard of, you know, when you generate a lead, how do we automatically do text messages, how do we do campaigns and things like that on behalf of the business? So it could be on autopilot. And we mapped it out, you know, four or five hour jam session. Then we're like, wow, it's a lot of work to build this. Let's sit on it and we'll get back to it later. And we just, it just sat on the whiteboard for a couple of weeks and. And then by complete chance, I had a customer reach out to me saying, hey, there's these two guys are launching a new software. They need access to things. I don't know, I'm the business owner, I don't know how to give them login and passwords and things like that. Can you talk to them? So I gave them a ring, gave them access, and then we were just talking about the software of what they're doing and things like that. And I was like, hey, can I show you guys something? So I ran into the conference room, took pictures of it, and showed it to the two guys who are actually Sean and Varun, my other two co founders today. And they looked at it and said, actually give us a Couple of days and we'll get back to you. So when they said that, I just kind of took it as they're just brushing me off, like, you know, you don't know who your time tunnel. They could be working for megacorp for all I know. And it's just a project manager. And, you know, they're just like, whatever. We'll just say we'll call them and we won't. But three, four days later, Sean calls me. And I remember this clearly. It was like 8am in the morning. I was driving into the office and I just get a call and I was like, who is this? What do you want? I just thought it was a cold call. And it was like, hey, it's Sean. We spoke the other day. I want to show you some cool things that we did. And I was like, okay, yeah, give me a little bit of time. I'll be in the office in about 20 minutes. Get to the office and completely forgot about it. Getting my coffee, talking to the team. He calls me back around 10 and like, hey, you told me you're going to call me back. What's going on? We need to get on right now. Jump on a Zoom call. And they had actually reconfigured the software that they created to kind of follow in the flow that I needed. And that was kind of the first genesis of High Level and what we see today and took it. I was. I was just amazed. Loaded it up to a couple of customers that we had in the agency. Immediate success. And then I went back and I was like, hey, I. I want to buy this. Can I, you know, I want to pay you money for the software. Can I go ahead and get it for a lot of our clients? So we ended up doing that. And then I was just so grateful where I was like, guys, you guys did something that I didn't think that could be pulled off in this short amount of time. Can I get you access to more people? And so I just started making phone calls and giving them introductions and things like that. And, you know, from there, that was kind of the genesis of High Level that it is today. And then Shadow of Ruin were like, hey, you got to jump on board with us and take this to the next level. And so from there, it's. We still kind of hold the same model. And here we are at year six now doing kind of the same thing that we've always done, serving about 60 to 65,000 customers around the world, 500,000 small businesses. That's growing team of close to a Thousand people around the world. The numbers are crazy and shocking even as I say it. That's why I'm slow to saying it because it just doesn't even feel real. But we're doing some incredible things and just helping as many people as we can.

You really are. It's very cool. And it's been cool to see that you kind of talking about feature creep. There was a lot of talk as you kept adding features, like, man, these guys are going to blow up. How can you keep adding all this stuff? But my goodness, it all seems to be. It all works out. So it's really amazing what you guys have put together. So you've kind of did one of the things we teach, which is a consulting for equity deal. I mean, you got the. The marketing and the. And do you do coding or anything like that? Or is it.

Well, you know, I've done development in the past and, you know, when you create something and then go through a lawsuit, it kind of tames your capabilities a little bit. So I don't tell a lot of people that have a development background, but I know development and, you know, definitely on the product calls. Definitely trying to. Trying to help push the company forward.

Forward and all that, but helpful background, right. Even if you're not the one that's actually sitting in, you know, and you apparently have to wear a hoodie when you're coding, but.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, my other two co founders, they're far better than I am. And Varun, he's the best developer you'll ever meet in the world, you said.

So they're. They're far better at that. But, but basically. So you generally help drive. Drive biz dev. They basically their primary lane is product dev, right?

Yeah. So those three co founders, I mean, we're definitely unique in how we've grown the business. We don't necessarily have, like, true dividers in what we do. We call it. We have a founder's office. It's just kind of us three, our hands are on everything, all three of us. Product calls every single day. We're trying to make sure that the product is being pushed forward. All three of us handle customer calls. You know, we're talking to customers every single day. We're all on executive calls, figuring out financials and things like that. Now there are some things that we take ownership and accountability on, but we kind of look at it as there's no one else to pick it up. So if somebody's busy, I'll go ahead and jump on that landmine. To see if I can take out that problem there. But, you know, we're definitely all hands on everything as much as possible.

Okay, that's kind of cool. And then what would you say are some of the biggest challenges? I want to get to the news that you've got, that you talked about when we got on, but. But just to kind of help folks see as part of this journey, what were some of the biggest challenges that you feel like you faced and how did you deal with them?

Yeah, I think in the space that we're in, there's always people looking for a story and a narrative of why we're doing something or, you know, is there an ulterior motive and things like that. And I think that's very unique in the digital marketing scene where more than traditional spaces. And so that was always a challenge in making sure that we just kept our blinders on in the sense of, look, at the end of the day, we're as legitimate as we can. We're just developers. Just let us build product. The storylines and the narratives or people trying to create drama and things like that. It's just interesting. I would say that was always an interesting factor in how we've grown the business because what people are trying to do is trying to direct you to being typical, to what every other company has done in the past. And we always wanted to carve our own lane in the sense of we want to do something so unique, something so different. Even the way that we do our development roadmap, it's community driven. It's something that we ask our communities to do. We don't want to have to reinvent the wheel or try to create something, you know, try to predict the future. It's Roland, just tell me what features that you want. And if you can also get hundreds of other people saying the same thing, well, of course we'll build it. Why wouldn't we build that? You just told me the answer, right? Like, I don't have to do it. And that's very unorthodox. And so constantly trying to make sure that we create our own lane and not trying to get boxed into what every other person has done historically is always something that we've always had to fight against.

That's really cool. And anything in terms of like staffing up, you say you've got about a thousand people, both remote and non remote. I'm guessing you're hybrid, is that correct?

No, actually we're 100% remote as a company. We do have an office in Dallas because the larger that we've gotten. People want to know that there's a physical address somewhere, but no one wants to come in. For the record, no one ever comes in. They just want to know that there's a true mailing address. So when they get a paycheck, is there a corporate office? But we are 100% remote. We've been remote even pre Covid and Covid actually just helped us on that side because then it became just more mainstream. But yeah, I mean, it's a thousand people, all direct hires. We don't outsource, you know, staff or anything like that. Everyone is a true high level employee around the world.

Okay, and then what. Have you run into some challenges in terms of a management structure for that? Just. And if so, how do you, how do you handle managing a thousand folks without having a thousand calls a day or 10?

Yeah, so, I mean, we have an incredible staff. I mean, I think we wouldn't be here without the team that we have and how we built it. A lot of it comes down to just understanding the basic technologies. We live on Slack and we live on Zoom. And everything is 24 7. Everything is readily accessible. And making sure that you just have open lines of communication to people is really the hardest thing, but easy for us. That I've seen. When I talk to a lot of other companies and organizations out there, they're just shocked with how large that we've grown and we're still remote and we just kind of. We're in shock in the sense of like, why do you require people to come into the office? And the feedback that we get is, oh, well, you just can't get that collaborative face to face. And then when you drill into it, you know, what we've done here is my whole team around the world, they're literally on Zoom 24 7. And we kind of simulated that office. When you wake up, you log into the same Zoom room and there's hundreds of other people in there and teams are split out in a breakout room. So you can actually shift into another breakout room and start talking to someone or ping them on Slack saying, hey, virtual office. Right? Yeah, exactly. Right. So it just depends on how you look at it from that frame of mind. But you know, from how we've grown, we've definitely created hubs from a hiring perspective just because I would love to hire anybody and everywhere around the world. But the bigger that we're getting, there's legality and taxes and things like that. So we've had to put structure in place. But you know, it's. Once you get a good core team, it's more about making sure that the culture and ethics translates down. And when you empower those leaders of what the core foundation of what, you know, what you want to build, and it's embedded in them, it makes it easy for them to continue channeling that down. So the faster that we're hiring, we're making sure that that's a part of our model and making sure that we have great talent joining onto the team.

That's really cool. Now you have all these things to help businesses, but it's mostly marketing. Do you see getting into a zoom or slacky kind of thing?

In the future, we'll touch into some of those things. Like, on the slack side, one of the biggest features that we get is can you tag internal team members, like, from a note or something like that? So we're gonna dabble our way into that foray. It's always this weird balance of, is it worth trying to take over, you know, the slacks of the world? Like, is that worth the fight? Or just integrate and play? And we'd like to play on both sides in all reality, but we just listen to our customers. If they keep asking for more and more and more features into it, maybe we'll land there. But right now, that's not.

And you've got a great base to start with, so that.

Exactly. Right, Exactly. So, you know, like I said, we don't try to predict the future. It's just if our customers are asking for that and we see a. A real reason of that being a need, we'll go down that path and we'll build it.

Okay, cool. So now tell us about the kind of the going forward, the big news that you've got, and what's happening from here with high level. Yeah.

So, you know, the larger that we've grown, you know, between Shawn, Vernon and me and even our team, we don't have a lot of expertise, you know, playing in the big leagues, you know, whether it's going IPO or, you know, strategic acquisitions and things like that, at this large of a scale. And so we've been fortunate enough to bring on a another minority investor, who's General Atlantic. And so General Atlantic is one of the premier, largest private equity firms in the world. They, you know, Airbnb, Uber, TikTok, all those. That's them. And they're the. The backers behind all those. And so having that validity, having that brand name join us, is huge for us. And the fun thing about it is because we're so unique. We've been a profitable company since the beginning. We're still profitable today. Nothing has changed, Nothing is changing in the organization. They just want to join and be a part of the ride and really provide that backend help along the way. We're super excited about it because at the end of day, Shawn Ver and I are still the largest shareholders along with our team. And so a lot of times when people hear this news, they're always scared that the team is breaking apart, the foundation of the business is breaking. But in reality, that's usually when a business is kind of falling apart or kind of on the downswing. And for us, we're on the opposite side of things. So that's what's exciting about it for us.

I love it. And congratulations too. That's really cool. What would you say? Just a couple more questions. What would you say is the best business advice that you get, that you give to other entrepreneurs, that they come back and say, oh my God, that was a game changer for me.

There is no magic sauce in business. It honestly comes down to grit and consistency. You know, it's always interesting when I talk to people and you know, people always ask me for advice and consulting and stuff like that. And it's like, look, I built up a decent sized business, I have X amount of customers. We've kind of figured this out. But you know what? For me to get to the next stage, I gotta redo everything. And when I listen to it, it sounds like they're just restarting, they're putting the reset button on their business. And I think as business owners, we do, as entrepreneurs, there is this side of creativity in building something from scratch. And when you feel comfortable cause you built something to a decent size and you start talking about what this next stage looks like, it's almost like this thing of like you're getting bored in a certain way and you almost have to snap your snap out of it and saying, no, just do what you're doing and just try to 10x, just multiply what you're doing, don't change the model. Figure out how to scale that model and kind of keep that same essence there for as long as you can. Because that's actually what grows businesses incredibly fast. You know, that statement of what got you here today is not what's gonna get you there. I, I don't think that's actually a true statement. I honestly think what got you to the first milestone, figure out how to double that milestone and get to the next One. And it's funny, I get a lot of business owners, like, man, you caught me. I was going down this rabbit hole and, you know, restarting my whole business effectively, I was gonna fire all my customers and try something new. Yeah, exactly. And talking people out of that is fascinating, but I do think that that's one of the biggest things that I could tell people every day.

I love that. My last question is, I agree with the what kind of what got you here won't get you there isn't necessarily correct. I do. In my experience, I have found that who got you here won't necessarily be the people that can get you to the next level because they. They just don't have the skill set of. Having seen that in terms of management, how. How do you feel about that and how do you deal with it?

Yeah.

My take on that is people leave the company for one of two reasons. One is they've outgrown the management or the management and leadership. And the company in many ways has outgrown the individual. And to that point, there are sometimes individuals who are trying to push the company forward and are accelerating faster than the overall company can go. And. And that's usually when you see great talent leaving. And, you know, for us, we've definitely experienced that. And it's unfortunate, but we also want, you know, we understand people have careers and stuff, and so we want to make sure that we support them. But on the other side, once the company has outgrown that individual skill set, that is something that you have to acknowledge and understand. And I think the piece is once you understand and acknowledge it, it's more of a timing effect and trying to figure out how to move out of it. Because the other thing that I don't play well to is kind of that fire fast mentality. I definitely understand it and understand the approach to it, but I also think there's a time and place to make large moves because you're running a business, right? The bus is moving at 100 miles an hour. You're not going to pull over. Right. And I think that's always a bad move. So it's really like, how do we change the wheels on this bus? Actually, we use NASCAR's analogy. How do you pull into the pit as quick as possible, change the wheels in under 10 seconds to get the car out? Right. And so really that's what I mean of like, once the company acknowledges and understand it, you have to start game planning and saying, how can we make a swift move here? That's not going to Impact it and also make sure that you create a great environment for that person who's the company has outgrown that individual because you don't want to burn that bridge either. They were a part of that journey in getting there. And so you're going to make sure that they have a safe landing, whether it's inside the company or outside the company. You also also want to make sure that you take care of that as well.

That's awesome. I love the pit crew. That is absolutely how it is.

Right?

It's like, how fast can we get the change done and get the thing on that we need, but not lose the race. Right. Or not fall too far behind 100%.

I've seen other companies trying to make drastic moves with executives or management leaders and stuff. And all they're thinking they're more focused about exiting the individual instead of looking at the holistic picture of when is the right time to exit the individual or move that individual to another team. How do we find a replacement? Let's build that whole strategy first, because it is. You have 10 seconds to go, because if it takes longer than that, your business can fall apart very quickly.

So how would you like for people who want to find out more about what you do, either individually or as a company, to get a hold of you?

What do you think are some of.

The best resources for them and that we can leave them with to go find out more?

Yeah, definitely. You know, I'm on all the social channels, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, DM me. I'm ready, accessible. But you know, if you want to learn about high level, check out gohighlevel.com tons of information out there. We actually have a little chat widget. You can talk to a team. We're staff 24 7, so there's a team member always available. And you can always ask, hey, can I ask for a demo? And we have a live zoom room that you can jump into with the staff ready to go and they'll give you a full demo the application and help you get started and see if it's the right fit for you.

That's awesome. Thank you so much, Robin, for being here today. I think great story. Great places that you're going, great places that you've been. Just really a pleasure to chat with you.

Thank you so much. Roland.

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