Generational Dynamics: Seasoned Insights for Young Leaders

My. My wife is. Is. She's like, I am absolutely dead. So we had John and Maria Assaroff over for dinner the night before you came into town when all that stuff started. So that started then. And then, as you know, we came home from the event after meeting with Daymond and then Kim. Two of our friends, Kim and Pat were here, and we had dinner, and then they were here the weekend. So we did, you know, all kinds of stuff, including brunch yesterday as like. And today. Today I'm just like, man, I feel like. I feel like there was. There's been no weekend. The weekend is gone for the last two weeks, and then I head out of town tomorrow, and you go into a bunch of stuff, too. So it's like one more week of crazy, and then hopefully some. Some. Some form of a weekend. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Business Lunch with your host, Ryan Deiss, and me, Roland Frazier. Ryan, crazy week last week. We are back from lots of cuddle time together, but lots of business. It was busy. It's nice to be back. Did you get a day or two to recover over the weekend?

Man, barely. Yeah. So we had. For those of you who missed some of the past episodes, we had two days of our founders board mastermind, two days of another combo at the same. Not combo, because that would be efficient. Simultaneous rise Mastermind, and then epic, epic board. So for people doing the business, buying and selling. So it was four straight days of bananas, hanging out with client insanity. It was great. But, man, yeah, I was to. And then I got back, and of course, my children, who I love very, very much, just wanted all of me and my time in the space, which, again, I missed him a ton. It really was great. But to say, did I get any time to just sit there and do nothing? No, no. It's been nuts. It's been nuts.

But, yeah, it's. My. My wife is. Is. She's like, I am absolutely dead. So we had John and Maria Assaroff over for dinner the night before you came into town when all that stuff started. So that started then. And then, as you know, we came home from the event after meeting with Daymond, and then Kim, two of our friends, Kim and Pat were here, and we had dinner, and then they were here the weekend. So we did, you know, all kinds of stuff, including brunch. Yesterday, I was like. And today. Today I'm just like, man, I feel like there was. There's been no weekend. The weekend is gone.

For the last two weeks, it's gone. I woke up this morning.

And I told my wife tomorrow, and you go into a bunch of stuff too. So it's like one more week of crazy and then hopefully some. Some. Some form of a weekend.

Yeah, I feel like I lost a fight. You know, I like, feel like sore and a little bit defeated. But it was all good stuff. All really, really, really good things.

Well, speaking of wisdom, how do you like that for transition?

I actually had.

I was like, speaking of being, like.

Old and sore and defeated.

No, I wanted to.

I did have a chance to kind of catch up on some reading and stuff like that. There was an interesting article in the Harvard Business Review that was entitled why Wisdom Work is the New Knowledge Work. And it was actually written by gentleman named Chip Conley, who ran the. Like, had a big group of boutique hospitality businesses called joie de vie. I believe he sold out and did a whole bunch of consulting for Airbnb.

But it's this idea.

Do you remember that scene from Dumb and Dumber when Jim Carrey's character is, like, asking the little lady on the cart to, like, watch his stuff for him and she agrees and he's like, you know what?

Apparently, despite what everybody says, like, old.

People can still serve a purpose.

That I felt like was basically the.

Subject of this, you know, of this article. It's essentially saying that in a time, in an era where knowledge is infinitely available. Right. Especially when you think about AI, this concept of being a knowledge worker that was introduced by Peter Drucker is actually getting replaced. Like now, being a knowledge worker, having access to the knowledge and being able to implement the knowledge, everybody has it. It's all readily available. And so everybody can be a knowledge worker, which is access to some basic tools. What's really in demand now is what they're calling wisdom workers. So people who have actual experience and I just love this quote. I felt like it summed it all up. He said, according to Harris Interactive, 38% of Americans reported to a younger boss. And the Department of Labor suggests the majority of Americans will have a younger boss in the near future. Physiologically, 60 may be the new 40.

But when it comes to power in the modern workplace, 30 is the new 50.

And so they're basically talking about how power has shifted away from tenured legacy employees who maybe they've got some wisdom, but they don't know how to use all the cool tools towards younger employees who knew all the new fancy tools, and now they're kind of suggesting a shift back. So there were some tactical recommendations that I'd love to get your take on, but just initial thoughts, feelings.

Hey, Ryan Deiss here, co host of Business Lunch.

And before we get to the show.

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So the reason that they're Saying that it's because of the tech, basically just because of things that are coming along, that maybe folks who are older aren't aware of.

The shift towards tech and all these tools are what rendered a lot of older, more experienced workers at a disadvantage. But what they're realizing now is that all of this tech, while valuable, absent actual like wisdom and experience, isn't always deployed properly. And so organizations are starting to realize that, hey, maybe we do need some of those old people back. Maybe we can't just knowledge work our way through this. We need actual wisdom around. So the pendulum in some organizations is shifting back to where some companies wait for it or even hiring people over 50 gross. Right. Can you imagine?

Goodness, you know, so I had the benefit on me. I had the benefit of. And I think you, you probably experienced this too. I had the benefit of growing up always being the youngest guy in a bunch of older people because I was always, you know, when I was selling real estate and securities and all of those things and when I opened the law firm, you know, it's like we ended up partnering with, we would look for what you call gray hairs, which I still, I saw that term used a couple times in some recent, that, some recent content that I was consuming that it's good to bring those in. Usually that's done in reference to. So you can have credibility because you're too young to be taken seriously. I think that depending on the market, like I think it's industry specific because if you're in AI and sas, then you know, like the oldest I've ever felt in my life was sitting on the top of Facebook headquarters in the nine acre park with the grilled cheese stands on top of a building where they planted an entire park with the 23 year old who had sold his third company to Facebook and was bored because he had been there for 16 months and wanted to get away. I mean that I was like, I'm a loser, you know, so I think. But you know, he had started when he was pre born. But the, the thing is, is I think that now it's. You want the gray hairs not just for the, the appeal to other people, but you actually value them in your business. And I think even before, like when we ended up partnering with a person that was maybe 20 years older than me and my business partner in the law firm, we were just straight out of law school. So I think that puts us about 26 years old and, and we're going for big accounts and things like that. Now that person did bring a Lot of experience. That was helpful too. And so I think it's, I think it's just the same old thing, you know, that it makes sense. The studies have shown that having a diverse age spread and a diverse group of ethnicities and gender identities in your, in your business is pretty much always going to result in a better company. And so that these people who are significantly younger realize that, hey, we don't have all the experience that we need in the business maturity and maybe the networks that have been developed. So let's bring that in and get, and take advantage of it. The difference I guess would be saying that it's going to be more that, that those people are in charge. But I mean we were in charge when we were doing it back then. So I think it's interesting and I think it's true in terms of, it's valuable. But do I think it's like a revolutionary shift, like, you know, like the Great Resignation was or something like that? Probably not. What do you think?

It seems to be a somewhat revolutionary shift, at least this article would suggest it at a lot of, call it Silicon Valley type companies, like at a lot of companies that really value tech and they really value, you know, that, that level of understanding, it's a bit of a rediscovery. And that's why I say, I think it's a pendulum shift back because same like when, when I grew up, I mean, and granted I, I only had a real job for, you know, about six to eight months, but I almost instantly sought out mentorship of people who had been there longer. And not only did I seek it out, but it was readily offered, sort of baked into the culture at the company. And I don't think you see that anymore. I think what you have seen is it's this notion of like the okay Boomer concept. Like okay Boomer, I don't need to listen to you. Okay, what do you know? You know, you, you don't even, you know, you don't even know how to.

It's a re respect for the, for the knowledge and experience is what you're saying.

It's a re respect for the knowledge. Yeah, because again now what they're realizing is oh my God. And I think where it's happening is it's happening with the 30 year olds because the 30 year olds are realizing, holy crap, these 20 somethings are just as smart as I am because they got access to the same tools, but I don't have that much more experience. And so if you're sub 30, some of these recommendations I think can provide a really good path for you to get the experience that you need and maybe to seek out if you're operating within a company as an entry level team member. If you're over 50, I think that this is going to provide a possible path, a second mountain for you to climb within your same organization or even others if you're in that middle. Certainly if you're in some type of leadership capacity, certainly if it's your company looking to implement some of these might make a lot of sense. So there were a number of recommendations. There's three that I kind of plucked out and highlighted that I'd love to get your take on. The first was encouraging legacy leaders to act as internal coaches. So essentially getting your legacy leaders to take off some of the day to day work and beginning to have them go through a coach training program. And you know, there's a billion of these that are out there, but it's, hey, we would love for you to expand, to expand your role to include coaching up and you know, even mentoring some of our, you know, up and comers and creating an expanded role, if you will, you know, on that and getting them some of the, you know, additional training. I know that's nothing that we've ever really done, not in a formalized way. Have you ever seen that, that done where when you reach a certain point, you actually got cross trained in coaching consulting type deal. Have you, have you seen or heard of that?

I haven't, but I'm in a weird spot. I mean like I'm not in that world much, so I don't know. And in, in our world we, I feel like we already cross every, you know, like we don't, we're all interested in improving ourselves so we're all in programs like that and teaching programs like that and that's, that's our entire business. So, so I think it makes sense. So I have to, it's hard for me to get out of that also. It's, it's like if you keep up with things then you still, you know, you're still plugged into everything. And I feel like we're all very much on the front edge of keeping up with things, so.

Well, I think this is less about maybe the owner. Like think about some of our other holding groups. You know, you think about like prime or something like that. I mean they've got, they've got younger leaders, then they've got, you know, more experience and they've got some older ones. Right. So is there that formal Coach.

So I thought that was interesting.

And the idea of the way we do it, like.

Like I am, you know, I am no longer the youngest person in all the companies I'm in. So in that one in particular, since you mentioned it, like, I have a regular meeting that's scheduled with several different executives that's just one on one, basically, for coaching, you know, so it's basically, let me add what value I can. Tell me what you're working on. How can I help? So, and that is a formal scheduled meeting, even though it's not a formal program. So, yeah, I guess we do have that.

Yeah. So there you go. That was kind of the first suggestion. The second one, which is, it seems obvious in retrospect, but when it comes to process documentation, so obviously something that we're pretty big on at the scalable company, typically the way that process documentation happens is the person who's uniquely accountable or responsible to it, they build the process. This recommendation was, when you're doing process documentation, make it intergenerational. So get somebody who is like the youngest person on the team and get maybe the most tenured person on the team, let's say, to also be involved in the process documentation. Because younger people are going to suggest ways to, you know, optimize it using tools that maybe, you know, older folks might not. And older folks are going to suggest certain recommendations that others aren't. So I know a lot of times documentation just is who does it cool. You document it. This idea of who does it cool. When you do, like a field test on this, when you're looking to optimize it, ask a younger person, hey, what tools do you know about that could make this even better? And ask somebody who's more senior, what did I miss? Like, what are some pieces? So I thought again, just being intentional about putting that in the process documentation phase. Any thoughts?

Yeah, I like it. No, I mean, that sounds. That sounds great. I like it.

The. I think the hardest part about that would be, hey, you're old, so we.

Want you to do this thing.

I think figuring out how to message that in a way where somebody isn't necessarily, you know, maybe you're the most tenured person on this team with the most experience. We'd love to have you involved in this project.

I feel like it's easy if. If you just say, look, hey, we're looking for some extra perspectives on this. And I think you would be. I think you'd be able to add a lot.

Would you.

Would you mind helping us out by taking A look and seeing how you might, how you might improve it or if you think there's anything missing or lacking that that's, I think it's like if you're just asking for help generally instead of saying because you are, you.

Know.

Old, you know, female, a minority, you know, those, those are less, less good frames to put that in than. We think that we value your opinion and would love for you to have a look at it and see what you think. But I, I, I do think that that's an interesting one. I, I, because I think that when we're doing processes, you, you do have the person who's doing it document it, and then you have the managers who are usually older than the person who's doing it to review that. Although if the managers were younger, they would be younger people reviewing it. So how would they get an older perspective? And would that perspective add anything to it? You know, would it be, you know, back in my day, we used to, or would it be, you know, and.

There'S going to be a ton of.

That, right, that you move to paper and pen accounting systems. A less good, a less good thing. It's interesting, but I guess it's just different.

I agree.

I mean, so even on the other thing I was saying, I didn't mean to be critical of it. I just, I feel like in our companies, and we are certainly far from perfect, that the age thing is much less of an issue because we work with people from, you know, certainly 20s to 60s, if not, you know, if not more, and certainly then when you add in the clients that we work with in portfolio companies, because there are a lot of people who have, you know, who are at exit stage, they might be, you know, older as well. So, so we're getting a pretty broad swath of those things all mixed together. But, but that said, I think that.

Makes us way better.

I think that's one of the reasons we are able to be successful and happy and have good cultures and, and all of that stuff. And, and, and if that is not the case in a company, then it could definitely benefit from it.

So, yeah, I mean, I know for me, when I started my first business in my early 20s, I benefited mightily from seeking the advice of people who had been there, done that. I'm not always sure, but I guess that's the point. Like, it sounds so obvious to us, but let's be honest. Like, I'm, I'm now, you know, I'm a lot closer to 60 than I am to 20. Right. And you know, you may or may not be on the other side of 60. I'll let 40, you know. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's one of those things that's more obvious for us than it might be for some of our younger listeners, if you will. The third suggestion, this one is. Is really interesting.

And again, I think a lot of.

These, if your company is really, really, you know, if you're less than 10 people, this probably doesn't apply to you. This is as you're beginning to scale up and you're, you know, bringing on more folks in your organization. He recommended developing a mentorship program. And a mentorship.

It's a combination of internship, working with other men.

I don't think that's it. No, it's mentor and intern, but it's a mentorship program because essentially what you would do is you would put together intergenerational team members. So you'd put together somebody in their 50s, somebody in their 20s, and they.

Would essentially flip off who's the mentor.

And who's the Internet. So, like, this week, I want to learn everything from you, and I put on my mentor hat, and next week we're going to flip roles, and we're going to do this for a season. Switching off who's the intern and who's the mentor. Kind of giving permission for the old guys to dispense wisdom to the young guys without sounding like some dude telling kids to get off their yawn, you know, their. Their lawn or, you know, back in my day, we'd walk uphill both ways in the snow to get to school and eat our shoes for lunch kind of thing. It's like, no, no, this is my job. But also because I know that.

Wow.

I know, right? I mean, I didn't tell Adam I got it for one day, and then lunch happened. It's like, well, damn it. I think. I think it's almost more important to give the frame for the younger people to give advice and suggestions to more. More, you know, tenured senior people. Because what's unique about, like, you, you said you're like, I never stop learning. I'm always trying to, you know, figure new stuff out. When the AI stuff happened, you were the first in it.

You were in it earlier and deeper.

Than anybody else on our. On our team, earlier than me, and certainly earlier than any of our team members who are much, much, much younger. You were driving that initiative. I don't know that that's typical of everybody who's been in business for, you know, multiple decades. Right. I think that that you're a bit rarer in that especially when you get into organizations and people are more, a bit more corporate.

Like, I also, I mean, I learn regularly from, you know, from people who are 30 years younger than me because that's on my team. I have, you know, I have my son, one of his friends and other folks like that. And so I am, I am learning from them and they bring stuff in the environment that we've got is really, it's basically, I'm, you know, we're not equals. We're equals in learning and we're equals in, in getting things done. But I'm going to prioritize because I am the, you know, the manager basically. So, so I think we kind of have that, like, that, you know, the formalization of something like that sounds, you know, I have to get past my initial bias of, you know, that sounds like a writer trying to coin a phrase and get to, and get to like, what would a formal program look like? And I think about, you know, with me, I could formalize that and say, you know, hey, teach me something, you know, in our weekly stand up or something like that, you know, teach me something this week that, that I don't know about AI or about, you know, about anything or whatever, you know, and, and, and then I go back and say, you know, here's some cool stuff that I've learned this week as well. So, you know, I think that, that formalizing, that exchange of information is definitely healthy. How would you go about that? Let's say that, that your task today was create a, a mentor, mentorship program in scalable. What would you do?

I think it's got to be opt in. Well, and scalable specifically, I think scalable maybe to, you know, scalable as a company, you know, this. But for context, for our listeners, it's only about three years old. Like, so scalable still is a baby. Yeah. So at dm, because I do think there needs to be some time there and also some size right, for, for there to be enough people. The way that I would roll this out is I would, I would, I would share this concept and I'd say, I think that, that there's a lot of knowledge to be gained cross generationally. I think the younger folks have a lot to learn from the more senior members of the team and vice versa. And sometimes that communication doesn't flow at all. And sometimes it only flows one direction, which is the, the. Because the classic mentor, mentee relationship is, you know, old guy, young guy, you know, or gender, you know, Non specific. You get what I'm saying? Saying we want really the learning to go across the board. And so we're going to have this, we're going to be doing a program, it's fully opt in, you don't have to participate in it. But here's how it's going to work. We're going to pair up two folks who want to participate and you just switch off and basically it's like meet, grab coffee, grab lunch and it's just share the issues and challenges that you're dealing with and seek out advice from the person who's acting as the mentor that week. And you're going to, you're going to rotate, you're going to flip it off. I think it's got to be opt in. I think you try to force it, it's not going to do well. And I would look to pilot it with people who I knew were interested about doing this kind of thing, who I knew were open minded before I rolled it out to the company as a whole. So I'd try to find two people, older person, younger person, and again, could, could be male, female. I, I don't think, I don't, don't think it matters. But try to find two people, run it as a little pilot, see, see what they like. And if it works, say we're not going to roll this out across the company and if you want to participate, you know, in this, you can throw your name in the hat and we'll look to pair people up based on that. That's probably how I would look to do it.

Okay, I like it, I like it. Very cool. And so did they have any other pointers or thoughts or comments or anything?

I think the big, I think the big thing is we're about to see.

There'S, there's been a lot of, lot of laughs. You know, the government can say all day long that the economy is, you know, is super strong and that, you know, that, that you know, the, whatever the unemployment rate is high. Although they, I don't know if you've seen, they keep downgrading it. Every time they do a look back.

They'Re like, oh, we added all these jobs.

And then they do a look back 30 days later and like just screwing with you. We didn't, they just had to do a 30% downgrade of the new, of the jobs report.

Like so like we had all these jobs.

No, we didn't.

So there's a lot of people who.

Are sitting on the sidelines and a lot of people have Got my neighbor just took, he's in his late 50s, maybe early 60s, just was one of the 18,000 people who took an early retirement package from Intel. And you're talking about somebody who has tremendous amounts of wisdom and he doesn't need to work. He's good, saved well and has done well in his career, has a big pa. He doesn't need to work, but he wants to work. And I think that there's a lot of companies right now, we talk about picking up talent on the sidelines. I think there is a tremendous amount of talent to be had in people who are more tenured, who are over 50, who, while, you know, hiring managers can say all day long that they don't discriminate based on, you know, age, race, things like that. I do think that ageism, more than anything, more than even race and sexual orientation and gender, I think that ageism is one that still more times than not, feels like it's almost accepted.

It's just, oh, we need to get.

Some youth in here. It's almost accepted that you're not going to hire the more tenured person. My hope is that this article and this discussion makes people look a little bit more at some of those folks who do have a bit more wisdom and adding them to the organization.

Yeah, it's in other cultures. They respect it a lot more. I don't know if that's, you know, changed in Japan, for example, or China, but, you know, it's. There's something to learn from everybody and certainly experiences the experience, the version of me, and I bet the version of you that there are right now versus the version of us 20 years ago, you just know so much more. You know, it's, you know, hopefully you're always improving and learning. You're not just frozen in time. But if you, if you are then bringing those people in and then just even the networks they've got, if they've been around for longer, they're going to know people you don't know. You're going to benefit from that. And so, yeah, and I do really, I mean, I strongly, strongly, strongly believe that having all of that diversity on, you know, age, gender and, you know, demographics, it's, it's, it's definitely helpful. It's, it's where great ideas come from, those teams collaborating. So I like this. To me, it absolutely supports that, you know, that which we, which we know. It's just that it gives a couple of ways to formalize it and put it into, you know, into practice in your organization. So I Think it's pretty cool.

And old dogs learn new tricks all the time if they want to. I hate that expression. You can't teach an old dog new trick. Horse crap. They learn them all the time. I think that's what you want to screen for is, you know, you're looking for people who are still excited, enthusiastic to learn new things.

Yeah. And that's, that's it. When I think you and I talked about it with interviewing on, on one of the podcasts. But when I'm interviewing, I want to know. So I interviewed a 50 year old, 50 something for a CFO position not long ago. And, and as I was going through and I was getting people probably from their mid-30s, you know, into late 50s, who had applied and what the team cared about when we were interviewing was not the age at all. Not the age at all. Maybe if it was 80 something, we'd be like, I don't know, how long can this person stay? But my dad's 90 and still practices tax law, so I have that benefit of seeing that as well. And I think that what we were looking for was did they have the experience that was necessary to do what we were going to ask them to do in the position? And then the soft factor was, I told you this, this is a, so what do you, what do you study? How do you keep up on CFO stuff? And if the answers were, I mean, you know, I, I, I go to events. What events do you go to?

The good ones.

And I read blog posts. What blogs do you read? And they couldn't answer to me. That's a, you're not hungry. You're in a different phase in your mind of your life. You're in the phase of, I'm either staying the same or kind of on my, on my off ramp. I am absolutely not that. And we don't want that in any of our companies. So, you know, the person that was enthusiastic, whether they were 25 or 65, that said, oh, I go to this event, that event, that event, I'm on the chair for this. I've written 16 articles about that. I can't get enough of Finance Times when it comes out. And CFO Daily, I read, you know, I mean, that's the person that we want because that's the person that's plugged into their life and into their job and they're on the improvement track, not the stay the same or down track. I think that's like, that's what, that's who adds value to the company. And if you get people across different age groups that do that, then better still, because of network experience, you know, the experienced person is going to know a whole lot of ways not to do things that you don't. They're going to definitely have failed more times than you have. So I think it's a really, really good direction for things to go.

Completely agree.

So what's the action steps for, would you say, if you're our audience taking away this.

I think an easy one that anybody could do is if you have. Is to start as you're building out your processes to just pull in different perspectives. Don't just have the person who does it do the whole thing, but bring in different perspectives and say, I think you'll bring a unique perspective to this. Can you go through it? So when you're field testing your processes, that that is an easy and a low risk one to do. I do think being open to hiring more experienced folks as long as. And I think the tip that you gave there, asking that critical question, are they still learning, you know, are. Are they the old dog, you know, and that's it, or are they, you know, the experienced dog who's, who's actively learning new tricks? Give me that person all day. And perhaps introducing some type of formal cross intergenerational mentorship program at your company. And if you don't have that within, you know, one of the things that came up in, you know, one of the masterminds is equipping your people, especially if you have young leaders on your team, equipping your people with an advisory board that you can get, that you have access to. We were talking, one of the questions we had when we were hanging out with Damon John is somebody said, you know, Damon, you're a million ideas a minute kind of guy. How do you and Ted. So Ted's kind of his number two who has to intake and implement all these things. How do you deal with that? And went through a lot of things. And one of the takeaways that Ted said is anytime there's an idea that I'm not sure of, I know that I've got a list of people that Daymond respects that I have access to that I can get their opinion on of. So Damon has essentially provided access to mentors, provided access to advisors, provided access to people that he respects for his younger talent. And so I think that that's something that everybody can do. Oftentimes we go to masterminds, we go to events, we form these relationships, and then we hold these relationships, you know, super close. To the vest. And we don't make them available to the people on our team. To the extent that you're able to, that's something I would absolutely do. Don't just seek mentorship for yourself. Seek it on behalf of your younger team members.

Exactly. I love it. Well, if you guys take some of this stuff and it helps you to diversify your workforce with folks of different wisdom levels, which here, wisdom and age are tied together. They aren't necessarily tied together, by the way. So assuming that you get someone who has more experience, wisdom, age, et cetera, it will definitely bring additional perspective to your company. And if you are a younger person, it really can. You've got to find people though, who are older, who are also who feel like they're your peers. Because I think there can be a difficult awkwardness of a very young person. And I've been in the role on, on different sides, so I feel like I can speak to it pretty well when I am brought in for my advice. I feel, I feel very, very respected and good about that. If I was brought in just because I was the old person, I probably would not feel as great about it. I don't really have a problem with people who are younger. There are younger people who do have the boomer attitude. I don't run across them in. I haven't. That I know of run across them in, you know, in my personal business. But it may be because I generally have an authority position and they wouldn't say that to me. I do see online a lot of disrespect with respect to age. That is seems actually part of the culture. And I think that's really a shame because it's not. And it's not because I'm older. It's because I've always sought advice from anybody who can give me advice. And usually they are people who have more experience, therefore they have had more time on the earth, therefore they're older. But I think that as a younger person, being aware that there might be an awkwardness, the person who you're talking to, if you have a higher authority or status position as founder or boss, then it may be awkward for them. And so I think you need to think about sensitivity with how do I deal with that to. To make that go away so that that's not an issue. And I think generally I forget, I forget where I saw this study wise, but it was always the best way to talk to somebody is to ask them for their advice. And if you ask for the advice, then the rest of it kind of melts away and you get into the subject matter instead of the position. So that's kind of my, my thinking on it. You.

I love it.

Yeah, I love it. And if you're going to do that kind of cross, you know, mentorship type thing, that should be the question. Like, hey, I want your advice on this because yeah, I think wisdom crosses all ages, but it is hard to replace to acquire wisdom without some degree of experience.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, hopefully this was helpful to you.

If it was, please share it with.

Somebody and feel free to hit us up on the media, social socials. We're always happy to talk about this stuff. We'll see you next time on the next episode of the Business Lunch. Ever wondered how some people build real.

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