Investing Advice from John Lennon and Elsa

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Business Lunch. I am your host, Roland Frazier. And beside me, but not physically beside me, only virtually beside me, is the inimitable Ryan Deiss.

Literally nobody knows what that word means. I cannot be. Oh, wait, no, I think I do. Does that mean I can't be imitated? Inimitable.

There's no way to know. It's just. We're gonna have to let that one just sit out there and kind of percolate around in people's minds.

Yes, it does.

So the thing. I got a couple things I'd like to talk about today if you're into it. The first is kind of fun because it's a battle between doing nothing. John Lennon.

Okay.

And the Disney franchise, Frozen. You think about that.

So basically it is John Lennon versus Elsa or Anna or both.

I think it's Elsa.

Okay, so John Lennon versus Elsa. Elsa. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dude.

I had two daughters when that thing was hot.

Because that guy cannot fight for crap. He's always coming apart at the. At the snowballs.

So I will tell you, this is really. This is really important and relevant. I had two daughters. Young, very. Like, they were young, but old enough to sing incredibly loudly. And anytime I hear Frozen, that movie, I can just hear, like, from the back of the car, just little girls screaming, let it go. So that's one story. Story number two, flying back from Australia, our flight got delayed. Got. Was in the. The first class lounge. And it was. Who. Who was the voice of. Of Anna. I cannot remember her name. Very famous actress.

Stuff. Definitely Adele.

It's definitely not Adele. Anyway, I'll listen to her. Her husband's Dax Shepard. Who I didn't know. I didn't recognize any one of any of these. Figure out who.

Voice of Elsa. Elsa. Kristen Bell.

Kristen Bell.

Thank you.

Okay, so Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard were in there with their daughters. And I didn't know who they were, but Richard, who's with me, he's like, oh, my God, dude, that's Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard. I was like, I don't know who these people are, but he told me. And I was like, that's awesome. And their kids were playing with Anna and Elsa dolls. I was thinking, how cool would it be to be the voice of the movie and have your own children playing with basically you? I think that would be kind of cool. But then I realized something, and we will at some point get to the show, but I think this is way more important and you'll appreciate this. But then I realized who Dax Shepard was. He was actually flying to Austin because he's got a big. A big podcast himself. So I've heard. Armchair Experts. He was flying to Austin to do that. But I didn't know him from that. I knew him from Idiocracy.

Best. One of the best movies of all time.

And so I didn't want to talk about like Frozen or any of that stuff. I was like, Idiocracy. And so we instantly kind of like bonded, waiting there because he's like, man, yes, somebody. Finally. So anyway, that is two completely worthless stories. What we're actually talking about is none of this stuff or me having my brush with celebrity. We're talking about John Lennon.

John Lennon and the Beatles versus Disney and Frozen. Right? And doing nothing.

Got it. So.

But it's fantastic.

I'm with you.

It's actually a stress match. And by the way, if you haven't watched, Idiocracy is just one of my all time favorite movies. So here's the end. And kind of predictive of where we're going.

Accurate.

It really is prescient almost. So here's the deal. There was study about anxiety and how can we let anxiety go. And I think it's timely because there's a lot of anxiety around, oh, hundreds of billions of dollars being wiped out in crypto. People committing suicide because they've lost all of their money. The stock market is down 70 odd percent depending on where you look from Super Peaks, and real estate is the most expensive it's ever been. So what the heck is going on? And what do we Do. And how do we cope with all of this stuff? And just generally, when challenging things happen, how do we deal with that? And, oh, we're also headed towards a recession while stagflation and all kinds of other bad things that we don't know what are happened. So to kind of soothe yourself from this, they did a study and they.

Said, well, I know, but for the record, I know I'm stressed out right now. It's fine. Going into it, I told a fun story about meeting Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell, and now I'm stressed out. So I hope that we're gonna have a solution to this.

That's what we're here for. We're here, right? Good marketers. We stir up the salt in the wound, and then we give the sav. So here's. Here's the three things that they said you could do. My favorite, of course, doing nothing, just time pass. I don't know how you do that, because that would tend to drive me into probably a worse state if I was stressing about something, if I was anxious. Just more time going by.

Who is they? Who is they? Who said that these are the options?

Oh, my God.

What do you want?

What do you want from me? You want to know who did the study?

I want sources. I want to know.

Now you have to do an interpretive dance while I find out they just.

Some dude on Twitter. No, this was like a real study.

That's an actual real study. Yeah. Let's see who they. Yeah, there you go. Who's they? New York Times.

Perfect.

Okay. It's the New York Times. All right. So anyway, they did this study, and they said, when you're anxious, what is the best way to decrease your stress level and anxiety? And one of the things was just say, you know what? I'm going to. I'm just gonna let some time go by, and it'll be okay. And so that was the control group. And just having time pass, you know, time heals all wounds kind of theory, resulted in a 4% in the. In this group, a 4% reduction in anxiety levels. And then the Disney advice, which is what?

Well, Disney was let it go, let it go.

Right. The Disney advice of let it go from Frozen was also something that they had people repeat to themselves. You know, just let it go, let it go, let it go.

And so option one was do nothing and just let time pass. So I'm gonna have no. I'm not gonna. No mantras, no therapy, no nothing. Like, let's just, like, just basically denial almost. I Guess it's not denial necessarily.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

It's just let time pass. Right. This too shall pass. Okay, okay.

But.

But then they had another group that had.

Can we call that one the Reverse Gandalf?

The Reverse Gandalf.

Gandalf, you shall not pass, but in this case, you absolutely shall pass. So you've got the Reverse Gandalf.

I want to say that's a reach, but I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to give it to you.

Thank you. All right, we got the Reverse Gandalf. We got the.

Elsa did the Reverse Gandalf a couple times. Threw my back out the last time. Anyway, so let it go is what Elsa says. And if you were to repeat Let it go, Let it go, let it go, as they instructed these people to do, they had a 24% drop and anxiety, which is actually surprisingly good. Right.

A significant, dramatic improvement over 4% over the reverse Gandalf.

Yeah. But the clear winner was John Lennon by a mile at 45% effectiveness. When people said let it be. That they were able. When they were saying, just let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be. That was 45% effective in reducing stress. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. And why do you think that. That that was the case. And why is Let it be better than Let it go? I think it's clear why either or almost anything is better than just let this pass.

Yeah. I mean, dealing with it in some way, shape or form.

And. Actually, let me go back to your Gandalf comment. If I'm going with wizards who don't want to let things pass, I'm going to go with Tim the Wizard in. Was it. Which one was it? Holy Grail, Monty Python? Who said none shall pass? Tim. He was the one.

So the Reverse Tim. Okay, that doesn't sound as good.

Some people call him Tim. Yes.

Okay. Sometimes we drink at lunch. Y' all need to know that anyway.

And yet we haven't.

Yeah, I know, right? This is just us, stone cold sober.

What do you think? Why do you think Let it be versus Let it to go?

So I'm not an expert in stoicism, but my understanding of stoicism is like, basically in life, there's kind of everything falls into two categories. The things you can control and the things you can't. The things that you can control, you look to optimize and do the best that you can. The things that you can't. You want to both acknowledge like, usually we don't want to go into denial about them, so we want to acknowledge them, kind of hold them, but then also just say, I can't control this. So that's a little bit of let it be, I think, you know, let it go is trying to pretend like it's not there anymore. And so there's a bit of kind of active denial in that. Doing nothing is kind of passive denial. None of those. I could see why you're active denial. At least you're bringing something to it. But, yeah, I mean, I think it really would probably go to some form of. And again, not a stoic, but I think there's something to be said for it's. Here it is. I'm going to acknowledge reality and then basically say, in light of this, now what? I don't know. What do you think You're. You're more stoic than I am. I'm the emotional one of the bunch. I'm the one you got to talk down off a ledge half the time.

Here's my theory. So. So my thinking is, number one, nobody likes to let anything go. You want, you want. Like, you can release things, but letting go implies loss. And so even if it's something, even.

If it's a bad thing, even if.

It'S a bad thing, because a lot of the bad things we hold as comfort, we hold anxiety to be people that worry, get something from that. There's a payoff from any behavior that we do. Otherwise, we wouldn't do it. If there was a better thing that we could do that that worked for us more, that we valued more, we would do that thing. So. So I think that's one thing. I think the other is that let it go requires an action. It requires an activity of releasing something, whereas let it be is acceptance. It's. I don't have to do anything. I just have to understand, as you said, and you know, towards the stoics, is just let it be, because what is is. And there's nothing that I can do about it, assuming that there isn't. So I think that's it. Like, let it go is I'm going to lose something that was giving me some sort of comfort, even if it was in the term of being crazy, anxious. Let it be is much, much more pacific. You know, to me, it's much, much more. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna. I understand. I'm gonna let that be. And now I'm just gonna go about living my life. Right? That's my thinking on it.

That is, I. I never thought about. And this is probably like, I don't know, psychology 101, maybe. So people are probably like, ryan, you're such a freaking idiot. But I never thought about. Which is fine, by the way. You'd be right about most things. But I never thought about holding on to things that are knowingly, like, bad for. And they're not even, like, bad for us, but they're like, they're an addiction necessarily. Like, we don't really even want them. Like, we acknowledge that this is bad, but not wanting to let go of that thing because it's still something that we have, like, this ownership bias, which we've talked about, this concept of ownership bias on, you know, the show before in terms of, like, in sunk cost bias. And this idea of, like, I don't want to let go of this thing because I put so much into it. Even when this thing is a business that literally had lit two and a half million dollars on fire. Right? Even when this thing is a member of your team that has kind of blown up and caused you enormous amounts of grief and HR stuff and legal issues. Right. We don't want to let go because of. Yeah, but look at all that I've put into it. So I never thought about that. And yet, if you just say in all these things, like, okay, I need to let it be, but let it be doesn't necessarily mean and therefore do nothing. We said that was the first one, right? In this case, it is. And I think the implied thing that makes it all work is it is. And therefore now what. I think that is the biggest piece of it. If you let it go. Also, if you succeed, which I think to your point, most people won't, but if you succeed in quote, unquote, letting it go, you're not only just giving up something, but you're also releasing your ability to have any sort of impact, you know, in the future. So you're also releasing some of your power and authority and agency. And so there's something to be said for it is here and now.

What.

And I think that's a really powerful position to be in.

It's abnegation versus acceptance. Right? Abnegation. I can't. Versus, okay, this is how it is now. What?

Yeah, yeah, right. No, that's. I think that. I think that's really, really powerful. So whatever you're going through, and I'm sure there's plenty of people who are going through some stuff, obviously neither of us are, you know, you know, medical psychiatrist or anything like that. But yeah, if you're going through some crap, maybe sit there and just say, you know, okay, it is and it will be. Now what? And see where that doesn't get you.

I like it. Okay, let's take a brief pause and we will go and come back and talk about something completely different and interesting.

And now for something totally different.

Hey, business lunch listeners. We're going to get right back to the show, but Roland wanted me to invite you to a brand new training that he's doing on acquiring businesses with no money out of pocket. It's something that he's talked quite a bit about on the show, but he's doing a free training where he's going to walk through the entire process. So if you want to get access to that, go to businesslunchpodcast.com epic that's businesslunchpodcast.com epic and you can get signed up.

Okay.

We're back after our break talking about Let it Go and Let it Be. And can't for the life of me think about what else we were going to talk about. Do you remember?

No, no. But I tell you, there needs to be something because we started out on like an emotional high. I mean, I told a story about meeting Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard. My daughter's in the backseat blaring out let it go. I mean, this is a, a positive and inspiring thing. And then we just swam through some crap and, and ended on kind of a down note going into a sponsor break. I hope that wasn't one of our ads, although it probably was. And so now we're coming out the other side. I think we need to redeem this with something that is a little lighter.

So what do you have? It's so funny because I had it right on the tip of my tongue. And then we got into the discussion, which I really enjoyed, by the way, and, and I, I can't think of it.

You said you were going to tell me a story. You said you were going to tell me a story. Do you remember the story?

Oh, yes, that did help. Thank you. That's it. Okay, so a buddy of ours, Joe Polish, sent me a video from Simon Sinek who was presenting. And this is amazing how good a good story is. And he was relating the story of a general. And the general was at an event. He had been the undersecretary of defense. And I don't know if you've seen this. Maybe you can, you know, let me know. But so in the video, he says that the general comes up and the general's getting ready to give his speech, and he's got his prepared notes, and he's got a cup of coffee in his hand. And he looks. He looks out at the audience, and then he looks at the cup of coffee. And he thinks for a minute, and then you can tell he totally goes off script. And he says, so this is not the first time that I have spoken at this conference. I spoke here before when I was the undersecretary of defense. And it was an amazing experience because I flew out on a private jet that was paid for by the government. I had all of my assistants who saw to everything that I need. They planned out the schedule. My bags mysteriously, magically went from my home into my hotel room. When I arrived at the airport, there was a car to pick me up and somebody waiting there with my name on a placard. I took the limo to the hotel where I was met. When I arrived, and they had already checked me in, they took me up to my room. I had a great night's sleep. It was sweet. I went the next day, the car again, and a person to meet me in the lobby took me to the car. The limo took me to the auditorium where I was delivering the speech. I was greeted there, walked in, given a ceramic cup with the coffee that I drink in it. And I came out on stage and I delivered that speech. And now I'm here again. And I flew out on a commercial jet, and I flew coach with everybody else. I had to schlep my bags. I had no one met me at the airport. I had to take a cab into the hotel where no one was there to greet me. And I had not been checked in. I was in a regular room. And then the next morning, I had to get up and go down and figure out how to find my way to another cab to find my way to the auditorium. And I walked in and no one greeted me. But I came to the back and I asked if I could have a cup of coffee. And they pointed me to the machine that was in the back, which represented what I put where. It was where I found this paper cup that I put the coffee in. And it brings to mind why we should be humble. There are many reasons we should be humble. But one of the reasons is that none of that was for me. It was for the position that I held. And so all of us, as we ascend through life, through all of the different things we have, and we find that people want to offer us things and do things for us and perks come our way, be aware that that is all because of the positions that we hold and none of us deserves any of that. What do you think about that?

Well, I wanted to end on an emotional up note, and now I know. No, I know. No, I'm joking. No, man, that's powerful. And it's a really good reminder also.

What a crappy host at that event.

Well, yeah, I mean, so there's a couple things I was thinking about in terms of if you're going to have a keynote speaker come and you want to take care of them a little better than that. And so I'm going to hope for his sake and for the host's sake that, that he was hyperbolizing a bit to make the point. But, but assuming all that. No, I think, I think the point of, you know, of, of humility and understanding that, that, yeah, it is, it is rarely you. And it is always kind of this thing that you stand for if you even think about celebrity, right? You and I have, for better or worse, worked with a, a number of, like, real celebrities, like, not like Internet celebrities, like, like real, like a list type folks. And they're all paranoid because all of them know and they've seen it happen with friends and people who are there before them. You get knocked off the thing, you fall down really far. It's not like you just go from like A to B, like you fall all the way down. And I do think it's a good thing to remind yourself of. I think it's even more helpful as an illustration for founders, for entrepreneurs who are on their second go round. Because I know for me, you know, you and I were starting new businesses all the time. And the thing, the lesson that I seem to have to learn and relearn over and over again is when you start a new business, you don't get to start where you left off, the old one. You go right back to the bottom. And I believed that on a lot of these businesses that we've. That we started, you know, coming out of COVID we kind of paused a lot of stuff and then just came out and went nuts starting some new things. And I, I forgot that lesson and it was, now I get to just show up and all this, all these things are going to happen and we get to hire this team and invest in all this expensive software because that's what we had before. And I think it's a good reminder that no, one of the things that we teach, we've done episodes on, at the seven levels of scale, right? Level one, sell and serve 10. Level two, build your growth. Flywheel, automate the growth. Level three, build your operating system. Level four, you can begin really focusing on level four, you can really begin focusing on profitability and take home bankable profit. But the sequence matters. And believe that, okay, we can start right at level three, you know, jump to level seven. And it just isn't how it works. And so to me, it's a good reminder for that for multi founders. And if you're doing it again, just remember that it also really applies to people that you hire. Be really, really, really careful. Hiring a quote unquote undersecretary who they were an undersecretary in their previous role. Maybe they work for, like, a really big company, like a. You know, we've done this. You hire somebody who came from Google or Facebook or Salesforce. Oh, yeah. And they're like, where's my team and where's all this stuff? It's like, hey, we're kind of a bootstrap startup, bro. So, yeah, there's a Keurig over there. You know, please, you know, fill the water tank up when you're done. And not everybody adapts to that. So be humble in your own self if you're starting. And make sure when you're hiring, especially from folks, look for people who are willing to take that commercial flight and take an Uber instead of a limo. So that's what popped into my head. What about you?

I liked it. So he sent it to me and I responded. So I'm going to read you what I responded. I said, interesting. I think we all deserve the ceramic cup so long as we provide value to others. So the real lesson here for me is that the people that you want to be in business with are the people that recognize the value of the person beyond the position that they hold at any given time. And the general and the undersecretary earned their way to the positions that they had. And the people that they are inside is what got them there. Their drive, their beliefs, their service to others do not fade when the position changes. But most people reward the position and not the person. I always aspire to do business with those who recognize that it's the person and not just the position that has value and that deserves the ceramic cup. So that was kind of my take on it, as I, I. He was saying, and I get it. It's like Obama got a lot of flack, and I'm neither. I'm agnostic as far as the political parties go for the most part, because each of them have good and bad things, in my opinion. But he said something along the lines of, you didn't do any of this. You who are successful, you who have built businesses, it's all on the backs of everyone else because you have roads and freedom and things like that. And so people are like, the heck I didn't. I built this from scratch. Which is true. And it's not that you did nothing. It's that you did a lot and give credit to all the other people that are there. Right. But I think that. I think we all deserve the ceramic cup and that a lot of it is, are we. Are we presenting value as ourselves? I mean, his was just. To me, it was a very interesting story, but I think that it just spoke a lot. Maybe it was his way of passive aggressively getting back at the promoters because he's up on stage at their event going, you guys basically treat me like crap because now I don't have the, you know, the uniform and the stripes on or whatever. But. But I do think that it tells us that people are thinking about that too. So on both sides of that, number one, treat everybody based on the human that they are not on what you can get out of them. Don't be transactional. Is the. The big thing. And then if you are the person, you deserve the cup. I think you do deserve the cup and so demand the cup. When you are negotiating your way through life, be sure that you are rewarded in the way that you should be rewarded. All the stuff that he had achieved that caused him to be valuable to them, to speak and give back to them is still there and nothing changed except he was or wasn't in this particular position. But I think it is good also humility wise to know that there's a lot of people out there that don't see the person and only see the position. And we should avoid those people as much as we can.

But when you are handed a paper cup instead of a ceramic cup, I think you should still be a pro. Still be a pro and still do everything for the people that were there. Sometimes people have screwed up.

Let's say, for example, Brian, that you were at an event and you had a session and I know where this is, didn't get announced, and you walked on stage in a room that was designed to hold 6,000 people and there were 4, 14 people there. You should still deliver the same way that you would deliver otherwise.

Yeah. Backstory, because I was going to tell this story and. And. And again. Yeah. In a recent traffic and conversion summit. So one of our, one of our big events that we do every year, Traffic and Conversion summit coming up again in September. If you don't have your tickets, you should send your marketing team if nothing else. Yeah, there was, we'll say, a scheduling, you know, mishap, like a honest error. Somebody, somebody messed up. And yeah, Roland's session just did. Didn't make the agenda. And so he had this session that he was going to give, wasn't on the agenda, so nobody knew to show up for it. It was a multi track event. So there were other stages. Basically everybody was in other stages except for this one, which happened to be.

The biggest empty room of all.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, main stage. And there were 14 people in that room. But you know, and I remember the team was there, they were like panicking because they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we did this to one of the founders and he's going to freak out. And yeah, to your credit, you were like, it's fine and went and did your thing as though the room was filled with 6,000 people. And that's what you're supposed to do. Because sometimes you get handed a paper cup because you're dealing with people that you shouldn't work with anymore and you'll figure that out. Sometimes you're handed a paper cup because some well intentioned person just screwed up. And knowing the difference is wisdom and important and their response to it. If they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry versus like paper suck it, you know, it is different. But I think no matter what, for the sake of everybody else involved, be a pro. Be a pro.

My son Ryan just said, sometimes Ryan, you don't get your mini trampoline in the greenhouse.

This is true, right? Yes, yes.

Or Rich doesn't get his sugar free. None of that. I have to tell the backstory before we leave. It's really funny too how your team tries to please you and I don't know, I don't know even the story of the mini tramp, but at some point there was that there has to be a mini tramp for Ryan enough that I made a joke. I'll tell you the story. One just to put in his in my guest room so that when he came here one time there was a mini tramp and then I had to throw it away because it was a giant thing that was. I couldn't find any place for. And the same thing happened with Rich. And to me the rich one's even funnier. And Ryan and I being the people that we are, because at some point, maybe Rich asked for a sugar free Red Bull or something. And then the team is like, you've got to have sugar free Red Bulls for Rich. Oh, my God. We don't have any sugar free Red Bulls. And so now we, like, everywhere that Rich goes, we fill the refrigerator with.

Sugar free Red Bulls.

And he's like, I don't even like these. It's like, it doesn't matter. You have to have them. We know how you are.

It's a joke.

But how did the tramp on the mini tramp store?

We'll close it. Yeah. So I was so, yeah, we were speed. We had an event going, and I spoke at a Tony Robbins event, like, the year before, and I saw that Tony had, like, these mini trampolines, and he would get on them and like, jump up and down to get himself pumped up. Well, if you've ever seen me and you've ever seen Tony Robbins, you know that we are different. I'll just say he's taller. He's a little more amped than I am. I'm reasonably amped, but I'm not Tony amped. So Tony needs a mini trampoline to bounce around on. And I like. Tony's mini trampoline is probably a full size. It's hard to tell proportions. Get out of whack when you're backstage with that guy. But I came back and I was like, tony has a mini trampoline. Where's mine? Completely joking, by the way. Try to lay the sarcasm on ultra thick. Next thing I know, there's a mini trampoline. People are like, we got it for you. And then they were, like, expecting me to jump on it. And I feel bad now. Like, God dang, they went through the trouble of getting me. So I'm like, starting to jump on this trampoline and my microphone's falling off and I'm starting to get sweaty, and I'm like, this is terrible. So I finally had to tell him, like, guys, that was a joke. And I really appreciate you going the extra mile to get me a mini trampoline, but I don't actually want that ever. So, yeah, sometimes being a diva, jokingly, you know, you kind of get what's coming to you.

Sometimes you get the ceramic mini trampoline, sometimes you get the paper cup, and sometimes you get the mini tramp.

It's all. It's a good life. It's a good life. I love it.

Well, thank you guys for hanging out with us today. It's always fun to chat, Ryan. It's always fun to chat with you as well. And if you guys enjoy this, we'd love for you to see us on a regular basis so that we're kind of going steady now. And that means you click the subscribe button. And then in addition to that, we would also love it if you like this to leave us a five star review that is very much pretty appreciated and we'll see you on the next podcast.

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So text I'm in to 334458, 9034. We'll get you in. No fluff, no wasted time, just real deal making from people that are actually out there doing deals right now.

I'll.