Leveraging Relationship Capital, With Jeff Fenster

Sometimes you're lost. Right? Like, that's why I believe prior experience is the most overrated prerequisite for starting a company. Because when you have too much experience, you're doing things the same way the industry has taught you. When you come in with no experience.

And just don't know it can't be done that way.

Exactly.

Yeah. Huge, huge value in that.

You're listening to Business Lunch with Roland Fraser. This is your seat at the table. Hello and welcome to the show. This is the producer, Darren Clark. Today Roland talks with Jeff Fenster, who, like most of our guests, is a serial entrepreneur. Jeff is the founder of the rapidly expanding Southern California based superfood brand and now franchise Everbowl. This is a great episode, so be sure to share it with your business minded friends. Jeff and Roland talk about his entrepreneurial journey, the takeaways that can help you and your business, the power of relationship capital, personal branding, disruptive thinking, and so much more. Before I hand you over, would you please take a second to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode? So thanks for joining us today and here's Roland.

Hey, everybody. This is Roland Frazier with a new episode of Business Lunch and I'm very excited to have my guest today, Jeff Fenster, who is a serial entrepreneur and also now a speaker and a founder of the Everbowl franchise, which is a series of restaurants. Welcome to the show, Joe.

Thank you so much, Roland. I'm so excited to be here. A huge fan of your show and really appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you. And for everybody that's listening, will you kind of give them an idea of where things are now for you and then we'll go back into the entrepreneurial journey and evolution?

Sure. Yeah. So Everbowl, we have a chain of craft superfood restaurants we are franchising. So if you're interested in a franchise and have visited Inevitable, we'd love to hear from you. And then kind of repositioning myself more into speaking and giving back to entrepreneurs and trying to provide the value and insights that I've learned over the last 15 years and help others on their journey where I can and provide as much value as possible.

That's awesome. And you built that from scratch over a pretty quick period of time. Because I know we just had lunch or breakfast or brunch and. And you were telling me, yeah, I've done all of this stuff and the last time that we met, you did not do all of that stuff, so that was pretty quick too, right?

Yeah, it was October 2016. Was when we started Everbowl, started it with an idea that I could reinvent the quick serve marketplace and really provide an opportunity for people to eat healthy without having to break the bank and utilize the fact that Americans eat fast food 3.8 times a week. Really, it was a couple of different ideas and some stuff that we'll probably get into today, but utilizing an approach that I've honed over the last few years, a vertical integration of multiple startups to solve business problems. Because I'm an entrepreneur. And when you're an entrepreneur, go towards your strength of, you know how to start a company, right? And so building them seemed to be a big choke point. It was costing too much money, and it was taking too long for me to utilize.

I want to talk about that, but I want to get.

Slow down.

Yeah, let's go first. Just so everybody that's listening cannot think. Step one, build a franchise thing to start with. Tell me about what was your first entrepreneurial endeavor.

So it actually happened by random circumstance. So I went to law school to be a sports agent. And when I graduated law school, my job at the sports agency was there. But I decided I was about to have a baby, and I didn't really want to pursue that career, so needed to make some money and got a job at adp, the payroll company. I was there six months, was fortunate enough to be the number one sales rep in the country and made president's club and made a Pinnacle Award, and my company owed me a $17,000 bonus. And so it was January, and I went to my boss and said, I'd like my $17,000, please. And they said, sure, at the end of the fiscal year. And I said, okay, when's the fiscal year over? And they said, June 30th. You'll get it the third week of July.

Oh, my gosh.

And I said exactly that. I said, wait, I'm in sales and I have law school debt. I'm about to be married. I have a baby. I need the money. And they said, no problem. You can wait till July like everyone else. And I said, nope. My ego and my bravado at the time said, they're not going to let me quit. I'll quit if you don't give me the money. And a big company like ADP said, there's the door.

Now, I have a question for you. Just as lawyer to lawyer, so we can't get this to happen. So I apologize to anybody that's listening that doesn't like this, but if you are owed a 17k bonus. And this was in California. And in California, I think if you quit, you have to be paid everything pretty quickly. Was that kind of a hack to get paid that 17k immediately?

It was definitely in the back of my mind. Yes. I knew that if I quit, I was gonna get it. I also thought that being that I was the number one sales rep, they might just pay the $17,000.

Right.

It was trivial for a company the size of adp. Right. And hard sales reps is hard to come by. So I felt like, hey, you know what? Look how good I've done for you. Gave me my simple bonus. You're gonna give it to me anyway. And I even offered to take on a whole nother quota and start over, and they said no. So my ego, when I made the threat, and I kind of was one of those moments where you were talking and later you're like, why did I say all the things that I just said?

I think it was kind of good, though, because they were being jerks.

They were. And it was a big bureaucracy. And they were in New Jersey, the corporate office. I was in San Diego. And I moved up the chain, yelling and screaming and trying my best. And so I threatened to quit. They called my bluff, and I quit the very next day.

But you got your money.

I got my money. And I got to go and be an entrepreneur. I got to literally move my fiance and daughter into my mom's house. Started my very first company the very next day, a payroll company called Ichecks. And my goal was very simple. Kill every. Kill AEP and take back every client I ever saw.

Mission and anger.

Revenge.

Inspired entrepreneurialism. I love it.

Yeah. Because I was never really thought of being an entrepreneur. I mean, back then, it was 2007. Entrepreneurship wasn't sexy.

Right.

It really wasn't what it is today. It was everyone's like, are you crazy? You're actually really successful.

I will tell you.

It's just the people you're around. Because I think most people get the feedback still that you're crazy. So anybody that's listening, you know, your family and friends will frequently tell you when you. When you switch from what they understand, which is being an employee, to what they don't understand, which is being an entrepreneur, that you're crazy.

Sure.

But now you surround yourself probably with entrepreneurs.

Yes.

And so you would never hear that.

And I think I've had a couple successes along the way. So now it's.

They have a track record.

I have a track record. He's crazy. But it was, I mean, truthfully, like with a law degree and I wasn't practicing law and a college degree in regional development and I wasn't doing that and I was just doing outside sales and being successful. My mother and family was like, are you literally crazy? And I kind of was like, well.

You know what, did that make you second guess yourself?

Not really. Because I had two confidence things that I think most people need to look inside and realize is most jobs that you're working will be there. If it doesn't work, they're not going anywhere. ADP always needs good sales reps and they have competitors. And if I prove I can sell one of the product, I can go to their competitor. Paychecks tomorrow.

It would have been really funny if you'd quit, got your 17k and then applied again at different places. I like that.

That would have been kind of fun.

And now you actually were then kind of. It sounds like you had a plan that was pretty smart because you were reducing your expenses as you got into this new entrepreneurial thing, right?

Correct. Because I had no money.

Into your family, into your parents house, was it?

Yes, my mom and dad's. Yeah.

So was that a conscious kind of. I know I'm going to have to hunker down for a little bit while I get this thing kicked off.

Absolutely. And I think one of the things that I learned early is if you want something, you're going to have to make some sacrifice. I mean, I went to college and law school, so I sacrificed my fun and enjoyment. Deferred gratification. Deferred gratification.

Because you can't possibly have fun in college and law school.

Well, college, yes, law school is tough. Law school is tough to have a little bit of fun. I will say I had too much fun in college, not enough in law school.

All right.

But yeah, no, it was definitely I had, luckily I had a support group like my family who would let me move in.

Yeah, no kidding.

Not everyone gets that freedom. So in that privilege. So I was fortunate there. But yes, I just literally just bought a house. Four months earlier. I was getting married, I had a little baby and I went home and I actually told my fiance. I just threatened to quit adp. They called my bluff. I want to quit. And oh, by the way, I want to move in with mom and dad and I want you to come and I want to get out of this house we just bought. And luckily she was my fiance because.

She said yes, that support is really important. Now she nervous about that or kind of.

Yeah.

You got this.

You know, she never made me feel like she was nervous about it. She was definitely like, whatever you think is best, I support you. Let's go. And that was really powerful because I can understand that if she was drawing against it and my family was against it and I was trying to venture off alone, it would be kind of alone. But as an entrepreneur, you got to have a vision. And at the time, my vision was simple. I sold so much payroll and I built so many relationships doing it. They bought from me. They didn't buy because of adp. I could have sold them any of the companies. Right, right. So recognized that I had kind of already done the entrepreneurial thing by being an outside sales rep. I was like, all I gotta do is go back to them and get them to come with me.

Yeah. For the same service.

Yes. And save them some money and we'll both win.

So coming out of law school, did you have sales experience before you went to adp?

I. So yes. My biggest mentor growing up was Dave Meltzer and David Meltzer had a handful of companies and I learned solution based selling kind of when I was, you know, earlier in life as an intern for him. So I had some, you know, not like a full. Like that was my only real job.

Yeah.

Was six months. So I didn't have a ton of track record. But I did realize the power of making friends. And it's a business principle I live with today to. To. To making friends and having fun.

Yeah.

And I realized that if you make friends with people, that's all that matters. People like to buy from friends. Yeah. And they'll buy because you're providing a solution. And if you really understand and dig into their problem and, and what they need, if you can provide them a solution, they're going to do it because you built trust. And so I built all my clients that way through trust and leveraging relationship capital. So I felt very confident that I could go back to them and they would come with me.

So step back in time. How long ago was this now?

2007. 2008.

Okay, so step back in time to that moment for a minute and break down. How does one become the number one salesperson for adp? Because I think a lot of entrepreneurs have a challenge with selling. And you went into your first entrepreneurial venture selling with sales experience, being the top person in the country for a pretty big company that was highly competitive and in the same vertical that you were selling, the same product that you were selling. So you really had the odds stacked in your Favor for. For people that aren't that don't really understand solution selling or how they might do that. Could you break that down for them a little bit, how it might help them?

Absolutely. So it starts actually even before that. And I have always, luckily, my mentor, Dave Meltzer, stressed early when I was a teenager, relationship capital. Relationship capital. And what does that mean? And that means that you build relationships and you make deposits consistently into those relationships. So when the time is right and you need something, you can make a withdrawal. And it's not forced, it's not fake, it's real, because you're always providing solutions and value to people. So. So now explained a little more in detail. What that means is if I met you right, and it's how can I help? That's the first modality when you meet someone is what can I do to help them? And it's not what can they do for me today? And it's not, you know, all about me. It's come at it with, what problems are you dealing with and how can I help? And if I can, I will. So if it's volunteering your time, if it's making an introduction, if it's providing a service that you might have access to or know someone who's having an access to. So I did that all through high school, and I always had this modality of I'd rather learn than earn in high school. So I was always interning and always surrounding myself with people that are further ahead in where I want to be. So that way I would have that relationship capital. So when I got the job at ADP, well, I was 24 years old. Well, most business owners are much older than me. So I couldn't walk in with my young face and just say, hey, you don't know me, but I'm selling ADP services. So what I did is I reached out to my support group, the very first thing I did. So I reached out to Dave Meltzer. I said, dave, I just got this job at ADP. You know a lot of business owners with one to 50 employees. Would you do me a favor? Would you make a warm introduction and let them know that you are making that introduction on my behalf and that you do or don't trust me, and then they'll take the meeting. Well, I went to my entire support group and said, please make those introductions on my behalf. And I had these 300 warm leads that I could then call on and say, hey, Roland, I know Dave Meltzer introduced us. I'm here to sell you payroll Services. I'm sure it's not something that you want on your plate today, but let's get into, who are you with today and are there any pain points? And if there are no pain points, can I just save you some money and will you support me? I'm a young in my career, but I promise to work tirelessly for you. And if it doesn't work, I'll help you get back to where you are. I'm just asking you to bet on me. And so because I had those warm introductions, I didn't have the barrier that most people walk into when they go in and start selling.

Knock on the office door and it's.

Just like, you know, cold calling doesn't work.

Right.

So if I didn't have that relationship capital, because I ran through that pretty quickly. Yeah. How did I keep going? Well, from there I started to say, well, let's think about this. Who are the gatekeepers for payroll services? Accountants, bookkeepers, bankers? Because anyone who has a business has an accountant, a bookkeeper, or a banker, or all three. So I started making friends with them, I started going to them. What kind of clients would you like, Mr. Bookkeeper? Then I went back to my relationships and said, do you have a good bookkeeper? Because I know a good bookkeeper. So I started actually selling bookkeeping services and accounting services.

Even though you were making any money from those things? That was the pre sale.

But you make one sale for a bookkeeper, accountant or banker and you all of a sudden they're like, wait, this ADP sales rep is bringing me business. Then they open their entire book for you and you get another 40 or 50 leads. And so I really started to strategically look at how I could move and sell once and get 50 sales rather than cold calling 500 to get 50 sales. So it was really just abstractly looking at the process and leveraging relationship capital and making deposits where I could and using my relationships to empower others. So then in turn it would return back to me.

That's awesome. And thank you for breaking that down because I think that's really helpful. So the next thing was Ichecks.

Ichecks. Yep.

Was Ichecks. And so now you've opened the doors on that. It's your first entrepreneurial venture. What do you do? How's it go?

So it was actually me and a buddy, Brian Hanson. So the two of us were sitting in my mom's kitchen and we came up with a name I checks. And we looked at each other because he was actually an outside sales rep. At adp. And one of my best friends and I got him to convinced him to leave ADP and join and do it with me. And we realized that, well, it's one thing to sell payroll services, it's a whole other thing to actually process payroll and figure out what you're doing. So we made the decision that he was going to run the operation side and I was going to continue on the sales side. And he figured out how to service the clients and I went out and sold. And we grew it really quickly, obviously stealing a lot of our clients back and leveraging all the track record that we had built at ADP. And we got approached from private equity, some PE groups and we ended up taking some PE money in 2008, at the end of 2008, changed the name to Cana phr and really started to become more of a technology company and realized that this is when the Internet was actually really starting to take some shape into the corporate world. And back then it was a very antiquated system. So people would have paper applications, then you'd have one system for payroll. And then if there was an HR file, it was in a file. And if you moved or changed your address, nothing was connected. And there was no self service portals. And there was a few companies that were starting to come up with this SaaS based. So we licensed one white labeled it, made it our own and kind of came out with our own HRIS platform where we were able to go upstream and upstream meaning number of employees for customers for our clients and then started selling actually all in one fully integrated HRIS platform which was unique and disruptive. And so now I had the benefit of going back to my existing customers and upsell them. So that allowed us to grow. And then I also had the ability to go to new customers. And so we ended up growing that, opened multiple offices, scaled it nationwide, and then sold it to a company in Florida in 2000 at the end of 2011, beginning of 2012.

So two sets of questions then come to mind. One is takeaways on your first entrepreneurial venture there. What would you do different if you were starting there today?

So I made a big mistake and my first big mistake was I raised a lot of money when I wasn't knowledgeable in understanding how that all worked. So I actually got part of my company stolen from me in the sense that we raised money and we stayed in control, but we then were spending money at a same parallel line that we were bringing it in. So we eventually ran out of money again and the private equity groups were willing to put more in, but because we didn't have our piece to contribute, we got diluted. Diluted until eventually we lost control and we ended up selling the company at a time when we didn't want to.

Right.

I jokingly say I got my MBA through the school of hard knocks, as.

Many of us have.

But you know what? I learned so much. So, number one, I would have been a little more thoughtful on the amount of money we were raising and our deployment of those funds and had better controls as to how we were spending.

So specifically, just because that's not. And I don't want you to give the actual numbers in your situation. But for people that are listening, that are thinking, wait a minute, how do I do that? What does that mean exactly? What specific things should they be thinking?

Sure. Is when you raise. So we ask for a certain amount of money.

Let's do a scenario. Let's say that you're starting a company and you think you need $100,000.

Sure. So if I need $100,000, let's map out where that a hundred thousand is going to go and what it's going to be used for. Specifically. We didn't really do that. We earmarked enough that we thought was going to carry us for about 18 months and we were going to grow into a point where we didn't need more money.

Right, right.

Which is a common mistake most entrepreneurs make is we won't need another round. You will need another round, whether it's for strategic acquisitions, whether it's for a whole new business model that comes up while you're growing.

It's funny you say this, because I literally had a phone call on the way over here to meet you where I was told, and we won't. This is the only round we'll ever need. And I was thinking to myself, it's not because you can't ever know that.

It might be the only round you need.

If nothing changed and all of your assumptions now are valid and you don't want to go past this one point, but you're probably going to need more money. Yeah.

Interesting.

It's just funny that you said that because I literally just. I was like, I just heard that.

And it was a mistake I made. You always think, oh, I'm not gonna need more money. Well, you don't know that. Exactly. So knowing that, you don't know that, you should always raise a little more than you think you need. And secondly, have a plan for when that money runs dry. What's the next dilution event gonna look like? And what does that. And how does that position you? So learnings from then till now is back then it was, we were all equal, and that's what it was. Today at like, Everbull, there's two types of stock in our company, and I'm the only one with voting shares, which allows me to get down to a tenth of 1% under the current structure and still maintain control. Because as an entrepreneur, the next thing is people don't invest in companies so often. I mean, occasionally there's outliers to this comment, but they bet on the jockey, they're betting on the entrepreneur themselves. Exactly. And so you need to recognize that you are the secret sauce. You're the decision maker, whoever you are out there doing whatever you're doing. So recognize that you need to protect yourself because no one's going to protect you for you.

Right.

And no matter how friendly or how nice or how incredible the people you work with are, no one's protecting you except you. So I would have protected me and my partner. We would have protected ourselves better.

Would you have done that through a voting share kind of thing or.

Yeah, Okay. I think so. Knowing what I know now, yes.

That's the easiest way to guarantee that you're good no matter what happens.

Or at least a mutual agreement. Like, I would have put in some terms as far as how we can sell the company even if we are no longer in control. Or at the time when we raise that next round, I would have had more knowledge and expertise and I would have protected myself. I just didn't. We came along for the ride and it was a great ride. I wouldn't change anything because I believe that you learn so much from successes and failures. And I don't look at it as a failure because we sold the company, but it was a failure in the sense that it wasn't the end the way I wanted it to be an end.

Right now you brought in private equity. How did you do that? Did you just call the private equity hotline and say, we would like some private equity money?

No. I'm going to go back to my common theme, which is utilizing relationships. So my accountant, who's been my accountant forever, Larry Delson, he had a bunch of relationships. He knew the. He knew so much about our business because. And I'm going to stress this, and this is. It goes for every entrepreneur and anyone in any walk of life. Everyone should have a mentor, coach, or advisor who they lean on all the time. And anyone who thinks well, they don't know my business. Okay, I'm going to use an analogy in sports. Tom Brady has a coach, LeBron James has a coach. I guarantee you their coach can't play football or basketball better than they can. That's not what a coach or mentor advisor is there for. They're there because having someone who can provide insight for you can be a soundboard for you and force you to articulate your problems, challenges and issues sometimes solves the problem in and of itself or just their relationships, their investment into you. So people, entrepreneurs who don't have that, that's a mistake. And I've always had one. So I utilize them in these situations. We knew we needed to raise money. I've always shared my business with my mentors, advisors and coaches. And you know, my accountant, Larry Delson was an advisor to me as well. And so he understood the state of the business and we were growing and we wanted to make investments into this HRS technology. Well, we weren't just selling payroll anymore. I didn't have the money to do that. And this was expensive back then. So how are we going to do that? Well, we've proven we have a successful business. We know we can sell the product. Now we recognize we're trying to skate to where the puck's going to be. So we had a compelling case to go raise money. And so utilizing his relationships, he set up meetings for us. And we got the opportunity to meet a bunch of different PE firms and individuals and family offices. And luckily we had offers and we were able to pick and we picked the one we picked.

What level of sales in say today's dollars were you at about that point?

So we were doing about 1.1, 1.2 million run rate.

So it wasn't like Giant, but you still got interest from these larger companies. Was it a spin towards the tech angle that got them interested?

I think it was also speed. We'd been in business about a year and we were already 12 months forecast and now had a million dollars of annualized revenue. And keep in mind, and that's recurring revenue. Recurring revenue. And in the payroll space with 50 and under employees, my average, just to give you size of number of clients, like our average customer paid $100 a month. So you can think about how many customers we had. And now you realize being an entrepreneur, what else that means? What upsells can you start developing? You know, we started selling HR human resource posters because there's compliance that you could sell and that's $3 a month. But if you have a thousand clients, that's $3,000 a month. Right. And all these ways that economies of scale start to pick up.

So you sold the posters on a monthly thing.

We did. That's awesome. Yeah, labor law posters.

That's pretty great because you just kept them updated. Of course, three bucks a month, we'll give you the.

Because you need them, it's a law. And they update two, three times a year and you forget. And then you're subject to California, you know, labor law issues and then you have HR phone support right where you can. And so there's just understanding that you're your business and you're trying to be a viable business. And the number one hard part for most startups is clients. Well, we solved that. We proved we could sell and get clients. So I think that was very enticing to the outside money that says, you know what, they can close business, we can always find something to sell that is going to add value to these customers. And you're also owning a huge part of this company, which is the human resource side is that's every company has that, that's not a niche. There's not a company in America today that doesn't, that has at least one employee that doesn't have payroll. HR and labor law issues.

Yes.

So, so the good news was we weren't such a niche based industry where it's like, well, is that going to take like. No, it's not going anywhere. Giant business. It's a giant business.

So now you sold that when, what year?

2011. 2012.

Okay, great. And what did you do next?

Well, so while I was there, I recognized a challenge that a lot of my clients were facing, which was we were in the middle of a recession when I started the business because that's the one piece we didn't really talk about was I started my company height of the recession, which was also told to me repetitively, you have a good job and this is a recession. What are you doing?

What a great story though, to let people know that doesn't matter. If you've got the right mix and the right offer and the right people, it doesn't matter.

And actually recessions are times of opportunity.

Yes.

You know, when everything's going well, it's less opportunity because everything's going well.

Right.

When nothing's going well, people are looking for new, different, and if you can disrupt that's opportunity, you know, like that's where the time is to actually think about this is where we should make those jumps. But they were Having trouble getting employees because people with jobs weren't leaving. They, meaning my clients. I always ask. So again, relationship capital. If you're my customer, I'm not just selling you something. So I call you and I'd say, hey, Roland, I just want to check in. How's everything going? Any issues you're dealing with today? Anything I can help you with? And the common theme was, we can't find good talent. People with jobs aren't leaving because of the recession. And the field of people unemployed is so big, we don't have the people to sift through it. So my ears peaked up after I heard this enough times and started a recruiting agency simultaneously. So at the tail end of Ichecks Canopy hr, I started JFIN Recruiting, whose sole purpose was to find and source good talent, knowing that if I could help my customers get more employees, they would have to buy more paychecks from me. Secondly, they would pay for this service. Right. So I started a recruiting agency. So that kind of was still going after I sold out my interest in the company. And then I realized I don't really want to do that for too much longer.

Were you doing that or did you have?

I had. So I sourced again. Luckily, there was a big pool of unemployed people. Recruiters. Right. And I had a buddy who was actually in the industry who wanted to start his own. So he didn't really want to be an entrepreneur. He just wanted to sell more. But he didn't like his company. So we made an agreement that said, look, I have a built in Rolodex of customers who will need this service. If you can find the talent, I'll make sure that you get paid. And it worked out really well for a while. And then sold our clients to a big recruiting agency in 2013, because that was an industry that was a side. That was basically a side hustle to serve my main business, you know, an ancillary business. And that was 2013. All right. Yes.

Now we're only three years away from the Everbowl adventure.

Yes.

What happened after that?

So, well, 2012, 2013. My youngest was born November 2011. Okay. And I realized the computer wasn't going anywhere, and I wanted to work from a computer. And so I was like, okay, I don't know anything about computers. I'm not technical. So I reached out to a buddy of mine who has a website called Smart Passive Income. His name's Pat Flynn, and I went to high school with him. And he was really successful utilizing a computer for money. I said, pat, I want to pay you ten grand a month to teach me how to use computers. And Pat said, I have a smart passive income business, so I don't really do that. Remember the middle word passive? That's not passive. But you should meet a guy named Neil Patel. I said, who's Neil Patel? And he's like, well, you should probably learn who that is because he's a rock star in this industry and he's co founded these technologies and he's really amazing. I was like, okay, great. Do you mind making that intro for me? Because again, warm intros is where it's at for sure. So he said, sure. So he set up a meeting and then I didn't want to just call Neil because I think everyone else does that. They just call, hey, I got this intro. And I'm like, well, I got to stand out. I got to be different because I need Neil to understand and want to talk to me. He probably gets a thousand of these calls a day.

Right.

So I went and did what I do, which is I sold a six figure digital marketing client on the auspice that I was going to bring Neil Patel in and they were going to pay us on success. Pay me nothing. But I was prepared to offer Pat 10 grand a month for a year. So I was going to pay six figures. Yeah, yeah. So I was going to take the six figures and I'll pay it to Neil. I'll get a customer who will buy into the fact that he's a rock star and I'm going to bring him over and we're only going to get paid if we're successful, which is an easy sell. So I was going to take all the risks. So I did. So I closed a six figure digital marketing contract, did my call with Neil.

Before you even had a part?

Before I even called Neil.

Which is awesome.

Yes.

You did a Hollywood deal.

I did a Hollywood deal and I said, neil, I'm gonna pay you six figures. And I already sold our first client. And he's like, who are you? But fortunately it was, that's an exceptionally.

Good way to meet Neil.

It was right. Because now I stood out. Yeah, he's gonna remember that. And at least he was. I mean, Neil's an incredible human. He's one of my, one of my very good friends today and we met and he ended up working with me and allowed me to do what I do, which was selling and use my, my relationship capital to grow an enterprise, leveraging his expertise and his team. And then we built out a team and sold digital marketing services and actually that's how we met. Yeah. Many years ago. And really helped clients that way by taking a we will only get paid on success model because if we're not going to help. So we ended up doing a lot of stuff for free. But what was great about it was because that was Neil and I would never jeopardize his reputation and I didn't need to sell just like, just to sell like it was truly like, can we add value where we can. Let's share in the upside.

Right.

And leverage this growing market. So that launched in 2012, 2013, did that till about 2015, 2016, beginning of 2016, a couple things happened. I got tired of doing it because I have entrepreneurial add. I'm a three to five year guy. And secondly, we were getting older and there were kids. Technologies changes so quickly. There's 15 year olds who literally knew more about the Internet than you know, we would ever. So Neil continues in that space because he's a rock star. But for me it was time for something else. And so sold off our rest of our clients in 2015, 2016, spent about six months driving my wife and kids crazy until they said go do something. And that was when Everbowl launched.

Now how did the idea for that. How did you decide to do Everbowl? Because you said it's Kraft Foods. But would you give a little bit more like what it is? Just for people that want to know.

It'S acai bowls, Pitaya bowls. Basically our tagline is made from stuff that's been around forever. It's real natural food made from nature. We don't currently sell any animal products. So it's a vegan restaurant. I mean we have honey. So it's not technically vegan, but it's vegan. You don't have to have that. You can be vegan very easily, but it's a create your own style where we really kind of take what you've seen in like the Blaze Pizza Jersey, Mike toppings in front of you. Craft your own bowl for one price, unlimited toppings. And really have some fun with superfoods. And it's a very small footprint and it's kind of a fun way to eat healthy. Okay. And the way I got there was just personality. You know, I think as an entrepreneur you got to recognize who you are. And my two biggest passions besides my family are startups and healthy living. I believe it's easier to prevent illness than cure it. And the way you do that is through your lifestyle. And so I created a Lifestyle brand called. And I created a word, unevolve, singular and trademarked it. And it simply means to move and eat the way you were meant to live actively and eat stuff that's been around forever, move your body and eat real food. Very simple. And then I said, okay, so easy. Why doesn't everyone knows this, right? Like, don't smoke, it's not good for you. Exercise. Everyone knows no one does it. Why? So I took a minute and I said, why is everyone not eating healthy? Why do we all choose the fast and the fried over the health and wellness? And I broke it down to four main excuses people make. And whatever they say, it can be funneled into one of these four excuses. And it either it costs too much to eat healthy, it doesn't taste good, it doesn't leave you full and satisfied, or you can't get it, but if you can give someone something that is affordable, filling, delicious and accessible, they will normally choose the healthier option over the less healthy option. Especially today.

Right?

And that was the birth of everyone. I was like, you know what? I can do this. I don't know anything about restaurants. I don't know anything about growing a.

Restaurant chain, which is awesome for everybody that's listening that has something they want to do.

Yes.

So what do you do?

So I literally was actually.

Let me guess, you may have leveraged your network.

I did. I did. Yes, I did. So first thing I. Well, second thing. First thing I did was I signed a lease, had no name, had no menu, but I saw Smoothie King was going out of business. The guy. I went in to get a smoothie, and the guy was actually taking away his equipment. And it was July 22, 2016, and his lease was up August 1, and he was retiring. I'm talking to him and I'm. Because I make friends and have fun. So I made friends. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, well, I was trying to sell this. It was the last. And fun fact, it's the last Smoothie King in San Diego County.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. It was Poway, California. And he's like, I'm retiring. I tried to sell the business. I was selling it for too much or no one wanted it. So I'm closing. I was like, do you mind giving me the landlord's number? Sure. So he gave me the landlord's number. I called and I signed the lease August 2nd. And I chose that location without a plan. But I figured, you know what? I'm going to do Acai bowls. I knew that and I wanted to do a bigger menu. And I'm like, smoothie King was here for 20 years. He already did all the research for me. Yeah, he was successful for 20 years. He told me he was successful. He was retiring.

Right.

He wasn't dying. He was retiring.

It's as an aside, it's really interesting. There are, I think it's like 780,000 businesses a year that will just be shut down because the number of baby boomers who are at retirement age are retiring, but they can't sell the businesses because there aren't enough buyers to buy the businesses that are going for sales. So the average multiple for sales of those kinds of businesses in the United States has dropped to 1 to 1.5 times EBITDA, meaning 1 to 1.5 times profits. And if you think how small those.

Businesses are, there's not much money, so.

Those people then try to sell them. And he's a great example. And for the people that are listening when I talk about buying businesses, the reason it's so easy to buy businesses for no money down or no money out of pocket is that there's so many that are gonna just. The guy's just gonna close it.

Yeah, right.

And you found one like that. Not that you bought it, but I'm just an interesting aside. Okay.

No, but. Yeah, but I think it's exactly what you just said. And a lot of times I like to. I have some business principles, but another one is I like to be the dumbest guy in the room and surround myself with smart people. Well, the man was in business for 20 years, doing what I want to do.

Yeah. Selling the same kind of product to.

The same market, which exactly he already has. He's already done all the hard work for me. He already sourced the right location. He's already built a fan base that have come and supported. So I was like, all I got to do is provide a fresher, newer, same thing to the same people. So I was like, I'll take smoothies as well. We weren't going to, but because he was a smoothie King. Yes.

Okay, good.

It's actually less than 10% of our sales now. It's about 7%. But the only reason kind of made sense, though. Yeah. I figured I'm going to get people in, come have a smoothie, and let me earn your trust to try something else. Right. And if not, I'll sell smoothies.

Right.

Because again, you always have a plan. But I'll be nimble.

Right.

You know, I'm not going to Beat my head against the wall. Right. So signed the lease and then now I had to come up with a name and a menu and actually run a business. So I had to figure all that out. So I leveraged a friend of mine who was great at branding, Eric Purcell. And I came to him and I said, do you mind helping me figure out how to name this thing, brand this thing, design this thing, make it look like something that can actually be. Because I can't do any of those things. I don't have a belief that you need to have experience to start a company. I think it's the most overrated prerequisite to starting a company is prior experience. Yeah. And too many people. Wait, I don't have enough experience yet. That's a bad idea in my opinion. Because if you have too much experience, you're gonna do it like everyone else. Yeah. And you don't stand out.

Right.

So I wanted to stand out. So I had no restaurant knowledge. I'm like, well, I'm just gonna come in, I'm gonna use smart business acumen. I'm gonna use grit, hustle and effort and we're gonna make this thing happen. So we did launched it.

So as far as. Because I know you have the vertical integration idea, did you have that idea at that time?

So I honed that with the recruiting. So what happened was when I was recruiting.

Tell us what that is first.

Sure. So basically vertical integration of multiple startups. So to solve business problems. Everyone has business problems as you start a company or as you have an existing company. And we always look to who is out there who can solve it. The problem with that fundamentally is everyone has to make money. So there's always another layer of cost. And if it doesn't help the core, if it's something small like I need plastics, I'm not going to start a plastics company to provide plastics for ever. Bull. Because I'm not going to grow it to the scale. But if you are going to, if you can self scale this same enterprise like my recruiting agency, I had thousands of payroll clients that needed employees. If I had 100 clients for a small boutique recruiting firm, that's a good number of clients.

Right.

I could self scale this thing. Right. I didn't need to pay a third party recruiting agency to help my clients so they pay more. I could give it to my clients at cost as a value add and use it as a loss leader to sell more business. Oh, you need recruiting services. Great. We'll do it for free. As long as you take on Our payroll business. So there was a way to vertically integrate the two companies and solve a problem that I was having, which was I wanted my employee, my payroll clients to grow.

Right.

And I. And in turn, I needed to build this. So I used my skill set as an entrepreneur to do it. Fast forward to Everbowl. The first one cost me two hundred plus thousand dollars to open.

This is the smoothie King one.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And was what was most of that cost? Was it re retrofitting construction?

Construction. And I didn't know what I was doing. And I needed a. I needed a painting company and I needed a flooring company.

Did your branding guy do the planogram and that kind of stuff?

He did. He designed the way it was going to look. And we even hired his son to do a lot of the work. But I had to hire third parties to do a bunch of the more MEPs, the mechanical, electrical, plumbing, and all this other stuff. And it was like, okay, what does it cost? Yep, yep, yep. And. And because I was just doing one, it made sense. Right? It's like remodeling.

You've got an eye to your integration thing. As you're doing that, you're kind of looking at saying, okay, well this seems like it's going to be. If I'm going to open. Did you think you were going to open more than one?

Yeah. So the fourth problem was accessibility. I knew I was going to have to open a lot and I looked at Subway and I'm like, okay, I need to open thousands of these. So that was the future. But I had to open the first one to learn.

Right.

So while I was going, I was taking copious notes. I was paying attention to what is duplicatable and what is a one off. Because one offs are one offs, but anything that's duplicatable becomes scalable for me. So I said, okay, we're going to build this. And when we built it, it was with the idea that this was going to be our look and feel. But let's test it. So we built the first one, paid outside people and learned. I had to learn one way. Then it was like, okay, we know we like this, we like this, we like this. I would have tweaked this next time. So then the second one we kind of did internally with a little outside help.

How long between first and second?

Six months.

Okay.

So opened October 2016, May 2017, the second store opened. So it was a little more than six months, but six months from when we signed.

So that was your Learning period.

That was our learning period to craft our hone, our menu, our messaging, what we were going to offer, how we were going to offer it. And then from there it was another four or five months. In September and October, I opened three and four.

Okay.

And that was when we build, which is the name of my construction company, was formed and started to really rebuild Ever Bowls because I knew I was going to scale them, right? So I was going to. I don't need outside anything. I don't need to make money on it. I need to just cover my expenses. And let me tell you, paying a third party construction company to build your restaurant or paying yourself, the savings is worth it. Just there. As long as you're gonna build more than one or two, right? And so that was how I was gonna vertically integrate. I was like, I'm gonna solve my problem that I can't build them for. It's costing me so much. I'm gonna build them like this. And then what was awesome about it was I was able to actually start something kind of cool to where third parties are now asking us to build for them. So now this business has legs of its own. And who knows, maybe one day we build's bigger than Everbowl.

So not being in the construction industry yourself, how did you go about finding the people to do that?

Well, I leveraged my relationship to find someone who knew what they were doing. Okay. Brought him in as an advisor at first and said, look, I'm going to give you some equity in the company because he had his own gig.

And so what were you looking for? What did you ask your network for?

I asked my network for someone who had construction knowledge and disruptive thinking. Those are the two things because I didn't want to do it like everyone else. So when his name's Eric Hanson, he's now our chief operating officer and with us full time. But at the time for Webuild, for Everbowl, Ever Bul and Webuild, Yeah, both because they're together. But at the time he had a job and he was working somewhere else. And I was like, look, I'm going to give you equity in the company. I want you to be. And he actually was joined while we were building the first one, knowing that we were going to get to this point. And I'm like, this is what I want to do. IKEA figured out how to build furniture in a box. And it's not that hard. We're not doing rocket science here. This isn't nuclear fission. This is a smoothie. Shop. So the base, the guts are pretty simple. Let's figure out how we can use Tetris to where we can build these things off site cheap and economically and get them installed really quick. And so with his knowledge and not mine, his expertise there to look at and challenge our thinking as we go, he was able to develop this and hone it. And then, you know, we had to make a capital investment in the equipment which was a one time capex up front to scale 25 stores, 30 stores.

What kind of equipment did you need?

All the construction stuff, which I wouldn't even be able, you know, stuff, I don't even know how to say. Okay. But like we have a big, we have 4,000 square feet construction facility.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. With like real estate tools, stuff that does stuff. Yeah. More than a hammer.

Okay.

Let's just say. Because I'm not. Yes, exactly. Yes, we have one, we have a couple of those. Okay. And some fun toys that construction people know how to use. But it was great because he's now invested into this fun disruptive thing. And you know, I, I'll also stress entrepreneurship doesn't necessarily just mean you start a company. There's different kinds of entrepreneurs and it's kind of like being a doctor. What kind of doctor are you? Are you a gp? Are you a heart surgeon? Are you a anesthesiologist? Are you an oncologist? Like what kind of entrepreneur are you? Eric is an entrepreneur. He's just not the guy who's going to start the company.

Right.

He's going to get into the startup with someone who started a company and he's going to disrupt and create innovation inside the company operationally, operationally. And so surrounding yourself with entrepreneurial minded people who can do the things that you're not good at because there's no reason for us both to be good at the same thing.

No kidding.

We're redundant.

Well, not only that, you end up at odds, different philosophies even though you're good at the same.

Correct. And I know you've done it incredible job of surrounding yourself. And one of the things I learned from you, Roland, early on was to help that. Right. And really go to what, do what you're good at and find people who believe the same vision but are good at other things and partner. And so it was great because now we have our cfo, Matt Delson, he's phenomenal. And Larry Delson's son, who used to be my accountant, is now our cfo, Eric Hanson, who has been an advisor since the beginning is now our Chief operating officer, Brian Augustine, who does our chief development officer. He was with trader Joe's for 14 years. His job is to build our culture, develop our team, train our staff. Everbowl University. Because make friends and have fun are our two rules. But I don't know how to train people. You know, I barely can get my kids to do what I tell them to do.

Right.

But he's phenomenal at that. And he's a disruptive thinker and an entrepreneurial minded individual. He just needs to join a startup company where he has the freedom to be that. And so I like to surround myself with smart people and these guys are all smarter at what they do than me. And so I'm the dumbest guy in all these areas. But I can hold everyone to the vision. And that's my job as the CEO. Right. Is to corral the. Corral all the animals to go in the same direction. And we do it together. And so vertical, that was a long winded way to get back to vertical integration. But by having good people around you, you can start to think, what can I do to vertically integrate more little companies inside of what I'm doing here, which don't need to necessarily make a lot of money? If it saves you money or it speeds up your throughput, that's value. Right. It also makes you a little bit more dynamic as a company because if Everbold doesn't hit the way I want it to, we build could. Right, Right. It gives me another thing.

Yeah, for sure. So and these are all under one company right now. All right, so then when you. When did you decide that you needed funding for this?

So self funded. The first couple was never going to take outside money. That was one of the things I was like, oh, you know, this one's more of a passion play. I'm going to just do this myself through profits. But it hit a little faster than I anticipated. And there was so much interest from the outside world that there comes a point where I just couldn't stop saying, I couldn't keep saying no to outside money. And so got a local restaurant group who actually knew something about restaurants who wanted to join us when we had four. And I thought it'd be great to finally bring someone in who actually knows something about running a restaurant.

And did they reach out to you?

Yeah. So through. They ate in our restaurant and then.

Asked to meet because they've got similar kinds, just different. Right?

Yeah. And I think that they just saw the line and they saw. And he's he wanted to meet me and it was great and I wanted to meet him. And it was like. It was awesome. It was. It was. And so when he joined local friends, family and local investors who had been asking to participate, we let them in. And so that was kind of our first round. And then raising money when you need, it's never a good time, so. And also it's always better when the money comes to you. And luckily, with Ever Bull, we then raised private equity capital. A few years later, they came to us and approached us and we had turned them down. And finally we partnered with them and they're franchise experts, so they're going to help us as we transition to franchising. So it was more strategic money than it was money. But at Everville, we've turned down over $10 million of capital that has asked to come in. We've raised a total of about five, five and a half over the years and turned down more than we've taken because the money is not what you need. It's the right money and the right relationships. And as far as lesson, I mean.

That'S a really important thing for people to hear.

Yes. Sometimes you feel like, oh, I just need money. I would say the most important capital any entrepreneur has is relationship capital. And if the money is just cold, just blank money, whatever problems got you into the position you're in that you think you need money as opposed to want money, will still be there tomorrow because you're going to use the same thinking to spend that money. So bringing in smart people around you or expanding your network and then having strategic money, well, they might be able to just adjust your sales just a little bit to where $1 from smart money is equal to $10 from just money.

And so you brought in the PE money to kind of help the franchise funding.

Correct. So these are franchise experts out of Toronto Suruya Private equity. And they have between all of their companies that they are the parent of about 18,000 franchisees in 60 countries. Nice. So it's a small number of. I think they kind of figured that out. Yeah.

Now you. You negotiated with them based on your knowledge of what happened with Ichecks. Can we chat a little bit about that and.

Sure.

You were dealing with a private equity company that does things the way that they do things, and you said no, which is kind of interesting. Can you share a little of that story?

Yeah. So when we first met, they were interested in participating and I was interested based on their expertise. So, you know, at first I was like, I'm not really raising money, but I'd love to meet. Loved what they had to say. They're a great group. So happy to have them as part of our team. They're phenomenal partners. That being said, they wanted to do a traditional PE deal. I didn't want it.

What is a traditional PE deal for.

People, Traditional PE deal is where they're going to put in money. They're going to get some controls inside the company. You're going to probably have to utilize some of their internal services. They're going to charge you monthly fees for things, so you're kind of spending some of the money you're receiving. They're going to have controls to make sure that if things don't go exactly the way you tell them on this moment, it's going to. That they're going to have ways to pull more of the company internally to their side and kind of drive the boat until eventually experience, which I've experienced. So I didn't want that. I don't want a backseat driver or a side driver like bet on me and the company. Phenomenal. If you don't, it's okay. We're okay. We're not in a position where we need it. And luckily, I think that they saw what we were doing with we build and our disruptive nature and knowing that what their expertise is. And since we hadn't franchised yet, we were a natural plug for them to vertically integrate another franchise into their franchise portfolio and leverage all the fact that they have like 18,000 franchisees who'd probably like to buy. Inevitable.

Right.

Or some portion would. Yeah, sure. And so they actually use, whether they realize it or not, they're using a vertical integration approach. They've already built scale. Now they just have to funnel more stuff through it.

Right.

And so now did they ask for.

All of those normal things or did you?

They did not as directly, but through conversations I kept saying, look, this is the only deal I'm willing to take. Okay. I'm the only one with voting shares. I don't have a board. I'm not doing this. And not because I don't believe I need the help. I actually take advice.

Yeah.

But I want to have the freedom to take advice, not be forced into advice.

Not orders.

Correct.

Yeah.

Because unless you're going to roll up your sleeves and be with us 50 to 80 hours a week to learn what we're doing. A lot of times private Equity flies at 30,000ft and they fly down to get a quick hour meeting and want to tell you what to do, but they don't understand everything. And I couldn't explain it all. So it's just a combination of all those things. And I'm at a point in my career where I understand what the company needs or I believe I do. And if I make a mistake, I'll make the mistake. And that's what it's got to be.

So did they take a majority of stock interest or minority or did they have a preference? It's forget the voting, just the actual percentage ownership.

Let's say they're very small.

Okay. So they just basically came in as a minority interest kind of to get their foot in the door to see what might happen later.

Correct. Yeah. And I think that they were. It was a small enough investment on both sides where it was a palatable, palatable deal. And I think they like what we're doing.

How did you decide how much you asked for?

Well, there was.

I know last time you had the right.

Yes.

So I'm just looking for the growth lesson.

Yeah. So I didn't need money, to be honest. We were not under capitalized at the moment. But not knowing what I didn't know, I basically mapped out what I thought it was going to take. And we thought we were going to need about a million and a half. So we 2x'd it and asked for 3 million. Nice. Yeah. And figured, okay, if I'm 100% wrong, let's protect against that. I'm still good. And so that's what we raised. And we raised 3 million in the end of 2018 from them. And we're finally, our FTDS are complete literally as of this week. And we're really excited to bring Everbowl everywhere.

And you have a wait list also because you've got lots of people.

We do hundreds of people reach out, which is when we knew it was time to franchise. We've never mentioned it. This is literally the first public anything I've mentioned. Franchise.

Right.

We put the word franchise on our website and we're getting inundated with, oh, I want everybody here, everybody here. Now how that's going to work and how many people are going to get it and how many we're going to sell. You know, we have to work through all those kinks and details. But I'm excited about it and I think we have the right partner for it. They know so much. And this is where strategic money is important. Also with private equity, they're always going to want to deploy more money. And that's the other thing most entrepreneurs think they need to ask for as little as possible because it sounds like a lot of money, but for a lot of professional money, they can't take small deals. Yeah, that was a challenge.

We had enough.

It's not enough. We spoke to a few groups that were really interested, but they wanted me to take $15 million. And I was like, well, I mean, I can't take $15 million today. But that's the smallest investment they could make. So understanding that you're gonna have to take more money than you think is actually a strength because it's going to open you up to more eyeballs who may be able to make that investment. And just for those listening, the reason is because the amount of effort that a private equity group has to do to manage their investments at a million or 5 million or 15 million, it's the same. And if they have a big enough fund, they can't invest that kind of effort for a million dollar investment if their minimum is 15.

Right. So two related things. When you got into the we build, you, I think you said you went to China to look at the materials or you got them from there. That's how you're putting them together or what?

No, not China. So we build, we do it here.

You build them here.

Correct.

But how did you, what did you do research wise to. I know you went to Brazil for the sie.

Yes.

I thought that you also did something.

Like that to kind of get to the lowest cost on the we build stuff.

No, what we did was we started to work, understand what we were buying and we started to buy it in units and then started to buy it in trucks. Okay, but no, we didn't go to China for that.

Okay, so you're sourcing that from locally. Locally. Okay, so then. But so that was how you got the cost down on the build and you took it from the couple hundred that you spent there to now you can do a store for as little as.

So we're going to be offering. Oh yes, we'll actually be offering a full. Your store franchise is open if you pick the right location on the low end, including franchise fees, trainings, the whole 9 yards for 75k.

Yeah.

Which means we're building it for a lot less than that because our franchise fee is 20k. Right. Great. So that means 55k or less. We're planning on saying we're going to be able to build your store, get you trained, get you open and do all of that. And that's because of our ability to take, you know, an assembly line Approach to what we're doing.

Okay. So then with the product itself going down to Brazil, again, reach out to the network who knows anything about how do I do foods down there kind of stuff.

Well, when I started, my cost for acai was very expensive. ACAI, especially in 2016, there wasn't a ton of us out there. There's a lot more today selling acai, and it's imported from Brazil, which means it's got to stay frozen. It's got to come all the way from Brazil on a boat. It's not cheap, and it was very expensive. And I'm like, well, how do I get my cost of goods down? It's not a banana. So there's not a lot of options. So luckily, the company we were working with at the time, I picked his brain. I said, listen, help me. He's like, look, this is the reasons why it can't be cheaper.

He's the guy you were buying from at the time.

And I asked him, help me make this cheaper. Right? And he's like, I can't. Here's all the problems, right? Well, when he says problems, I see opportunities. So I said, well, I want to go down to Brazil and I want to see it. So I went down to Brazil with him, and we went to Brazil and met the factory, and I started realizing, wait, you're just middlemanning my direct relationship with the factory. The only reason why is the guy.

You were with was.

Yeah, yeah, because I'm surprised that he.

Went down there with you, because that's what I would have thought he would have been concerned about. But okay.

But truthfully, his view was the same, which is, unless you buy a container which is 40ft worth of product.

Right.

You can't get it out of Brazil.

Right.

And most small, mom, you know, I only had two stores. I can't consume that.

Sure.

So he's not worried about it. He doesn't know my long tail plan, which is, I'm gonna have 100 of these right. Where a container won't be enough. I'm gonna need a couple of those.

Right.

So I was just investing upfront the research and saying, okay, let's go establish the relationships. I went down to Brazil, met with the factory, realized how much savings I could get if I just buy a container, came back, researched holding costs here and freezer space and built a commissary and built a freezer and said, you know what? Wayne Gretzky has a famous saying. I don't have to be fast if I skate to where the Puck's going to be. So I'm like, well, I know we're building the stores. We're building, we build, we're doing this. We have the money, we're going to do it. Let's get a container. So we bought our first container of acai and stuck it in a freezer in our own facility where we were paying rent anyway and consumed it down and realized, wait, look at that. Our cost of goods went literally down 40% on ACAI.

Okay, that's crazy, right?

It's crazy.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, when you think about on a bowl, at the time we were selling an eight dollar bowl and I was paying, you know, call it a dollar round. These are not real numbers, but call it a dollar for acai to go down to 60 cents for acai. I just made 40 cents a bowl.

Yeah, yeah.

Without changing anything.

Right, exactly.

Except a little cash up front. Right? Yeah. So that all of a sudden, again, vertical integration. So I started Real Happy Foods, which is the name and brand of our acai. It's real acai, real pattaya, where we bring in our own product and make sure that we're controlling the supply chain and making sure that our costs are down and it's sustainable. And then from that, amazing other things happened, right? Which is you meet the locals, you also learn about acai seeds and bracelets and jewelry and all these fun things that happen. And it also creates a moat around what you're doing because a lot of like for example, investors say, well, Jeff, what's the barrier to entry? Can't I just go open an acai bowl and copy you? Yes, you can. But until you get to scale, can you build it as cheap as me? Can you source it like I can? You do all these things that we've done, which means sure you can and please try.

Right?

I'm okay. You know, a rising tide lifts all boats. Build the industry.

Right.

Find good locations and then we'll come up and near you and we'll see or we'll partner. Right, Right. There's so much opportunity, but we're continuously to. We're continuing to build a moat around what we're doing, which means no. Now I can say with integrity. I've been to Brazil, I know the process. I work with the locals. We source high quality ingredients, we bring it back. We care about our builds, we build them ourselves. We're doing all this. We are really invested in this business. That's why you should go to Everble because we truly care about every piece of what we're doing, we didn't just throw our name up on a wall and say, hey, guess what? We're selling the same product. Everyone else is just come buy us. So we've really created that kind of attraction and that loyalty to the industry where in turn, I think customers should and feel. They feel it when they come in.

Right. You know, what have you learned about branding that. That you think is something that would be valuable for people that are listening because this was your first brand, you decided you wanted to really build a brand. You had companies before, but this time you've got. You're wearing the clothes, you've got the backpack, you've got.

Yes.

You don't have the hat today, at least.

No, I do. It's just tone on tone. So I learned a lot about branding on this one. And I give all the credit to Eric Purcell, my chief branding officer and my partner. He taught me what I just never realized before when I was building companies, which is, that's a mistake. You should always be building two things, your company brand and your personal brand. You know, and the best lesson for that is actually right now, and I use Tesla, Elon Musk. He just literally sold 190,000 trucks that have never been built. Pre sold them all simply because of his personal brand and the Tesla brand. But the CEO of Audi couldn't do the same thing. If Audi came out and said, please pre buy 190,000 of our electric trucks, no one would buy them.

Yeah.

The main difference was the brand. And the brand is what. It's not just the logo, it's not just the name, but it's what you stand for. It's your why. And the fact that we have unevolve and that's our why. And everything stems from that. The look, the feel, the vertical integration, how it all ties together. This overall encompassing thing that says, I, Jeff Fenster, and I ever bull am all things this. And if you want to get involved with us, you know that we are fully committed to this. And I wear the clothes every day. Why? Because I love the brand I'm going to wear. I mean, what. There's a stat. I think we see 3,500 or 35,000 logos a day. The average American just walking around and you don't remember most of them. It's just, you know, slow. But if you really believe in your brand. Why would I wear anything else?

Right.

Who's going to who? I don't know who's going to see me today. And I could be walking through an airport. And someone says, everbore, I've been there.

Right.

And then I get to have that conversation. You're the guy. Yeah, yeah. Or they say, do you work there? And I get to say yes.

Yes.

Because I like to say yes. When someone asks that, I just say, yeah, of course I work there. Oh, I love it because I get real feedback.

Right.

If you're the owner, they always try to tell you something nice.

That's true.

You know, but sometimes you get really good constructive feedback.

Right.

But I also want my employees to know that I'm all in. I'm not one foot in one foot. I am 100% all in on ever bowl. This is who I am. And what's fun about this one is it's my passion. So this is truly a outward manifestation of who I am. I live an unevolved lifestyle. I want to help others do the same. Whether you eat it, ever bowl or not. I mean, I prefer it, but you can go to my competitor as long as they do it right.

Right.

Be healthy, be your best self and know that we're supporting you and we're supporting you through all of this. And then I also get to be an entrepreneur, which, you know, at the time I didn't realize I wanted to be. And, you know, I have entrepreneurial add, at least that's what some people dub it. But I use it towards a strength so inevitable now. We just launched our super fuel coffee, which is the world's first acai infused coffee mixed with other superfoods. And why would you choose ours? Well, two reasons. Number one, our USP is, our unique selling proposition is you drink coffee every day, but you don't always drink eat superfoods. Why not drink superfoods with your coffee? But secondly, once you make the decision to do that, why you choose ours is we're really the superfood team. We are invested in superfoods. So now I have this whole option of coming out with third party, not even third party, first party products, but to sell outside of our four walls that are consumer packaged goods that are all things superfoods and partnerships that we can do where a coffee company can come to us and we'll put our superfoods in with their coffee. Why? Because of the Everbowl name. The Everbowl brand should be synonymous with superfoods and all things superfoods. I've been to Brazil. I'll go there as many times as I need to continue to make sure that we're sourcing the highest quality ingredients. We're all in. And I think entrepreneurs, once you commit, burn the boats and get all in, don't have a backup plan. Your backup plan should be you're going to figure it out.

Right, Right. I like that. So what did I not ask you that you think would have been good to ask that would help people out?

Well, I think we kind of hit on it. But about entrepreneurship, having a coach, mentor and advisor, you know, going to conferences and listening to people who've done it speak, even if it's not on your respected industry.

Right.

Because industry agnostic entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

You know, and some of the best.

Things you learn that for me, the most creative, best things I've learned and the best way to be creative and disruptive is that you're aware of lots of things, not just your industry.

Correct.

Because the innovations typically don't come within the industry. They come from within without.

Correct. It's disruptive thinking. Right. And know that like, I love going to listen to entrepreneurs and I'll listen to and reach out to entrepreneurs of all kinds that inspire me. I don't care what industry they're in, because they have a way of thinking and problem solving and having a vision and executing on it. That to your point, that's where innovation comes from. So. So I would say that I'm mentoring and advising a lot more and speaking a lot more. And so would love anyone who's listening and wants to talk to me, please reach out. I love to talk to aspiring and current entrepreneurs. If you have any suggestions for me, I'm all ears. But also just the power of that and make sure that you do find coaches, advisors and mentors. And if it costs you money, pay it, because I invest that money all the time. And if you're not willing to invest in yourself, why would anyone invest in your business? Why are you investing in a business?

Right.

The most biggest return you could possibly get is yourself. And it's a joke. It's like the plumber joke, you know that I don't know if anyone's heard it, but the screw.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's like you have backed up plumbing and you're trying everything and then you call a plumber and they come with their wrench and they hit one little spot and it works. And they say it's a hundred dollars and you say, how can it be $100? All you did was hit right there. No, I knew where to hit.

Right.

And if you can save time because you surround yourself with people who can give you perspective and sometimes you're lost. Right. Like, that's why I believe prior experience is the most overrated prerequisite for starting a company. Because when you have too much experience, you're doing things the same way the industry has taught you when you come in with no experience and just innovative.

Don't know it can't be done that way.

Exactly. Yeah. You don't know.

It's a huge, huge value in that. Yeah.

And there's so much that is learned. It's like the four minute mile, you know. I don't know if anyone reads this story, but ryan ran the 4 minute mile or was the first to do it. It had never been done. And when he finally did it, it was done like a thousand times since because people had the composite can be done. Yeah.

Fosbury Flop. Same thing with the high jump, right?

Yes.

Nobody had ever cleared something that high and now everybody does that.

So you're going to go over it backwards. What? It's crazy. Nobody does that or Tony Hawk and it's incredible. But I know a lot of people are aspiring to be an entrepreneur and you're always giving yourself a. I'm waiting for this milestone, for me to make that jump. That milestone is not the right milestone. When you have the right vision, the right plan and you have thought about your life to make sure that you're in a position to last more than 35 days in that location or whatever. Yeah. And you're properly capitalized. Not just in money, but in circumstance. Yeah. I had to move in with my parents to make that happen. I couldn't do it.

That's so smart.

And trust me, it was not fun. It was not cool to tell your fiance to do it. But I realized that a short term sacrifice, 18 months later I moved out and bought a house.

Right? Yeah.

So it was an 18 month sacrifice for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

That's peanuts.

So you're speaking and available to help people more in the mentoring and whatnot. What's the best way for people to get a hold of you?

So on Instagram it's fensterjeff. My last name, first name and it's.

F E N S T E R J E F F. That is correct. Okay.

LinkedIn as well. A lot of great conversations I've had on LinkedIn. Jeffverbowl or connectfenster.com are both email addresses that can be used. If it's anything Everbowl related, I recommend the Jeff at Everbowl and if not connect jefffenster.com and my website, jefffenster.com will be up soon.

All right. Thank you so much for coming here today. I really appreciate you sharing with everybody.

Of course. And thank you for having me. And this was, this is amazing. And I love your show and I love what it's doing for both the current and future entrepreneurs of America.

Thanks.

You've been listening to Business Lunch with Roland Fraser. If you're enjoying the show, let us know by subscribing and leaving a review. And for more information, go to businesslunchpodcast.com thank you for listening.

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