Roland's Sales and Profitability Growth Matrix
2 Feb 2026 · 0 min
Transcript of a Business Lunch podcast episode (Roland Frasier with Ryan Deiss) presenting a practical growth matrix for scaling sales and profitability. The framework organizes growth into three leverage pillars—acquiring more customers, increasing transaction size, and raising buyer frequency—each with associated KPIs (e.g., CAC, dollars per lead, viral coefficient, AOV/immediate customer value, gross margin, churn, LTV/LCV, MAU, product innovation rate) and tactical levers (paid ads, partnerships, earned/organic channels, SEO, joint ventures, M&A/asset or stock purchases, licensing, affiliates, upsells/cross-sells, bundling, subscriptions, buying/borrowing recurring revenue). The episode includes concrete examples (partner deals, acquisitions, viral plays, product bundling, subscriptions), exercises (traffic channel grid, M&A grid, 585 exercise), and a promotional closing for an Epic Deal Fast Track acquisitions program.
How much more successful would you be if you had lunch once a week with insanely successful entrepreneurs who share their biggest secrets on how they think and achieve success? Grab your seat at the table, because this is Business lunch with Roland Frazier and Ryan Dice.
Now, this is one of my favorite things, and one of my sons calls it the leverage growth mind blank. Because every time that I teach this, the people that we're teaching it to go, oh, my God, we're just missing so many opportunities. And it, it really changes things. So here I'm going through leverage, customer acquisition. So this is taking. Jay Abraham did a great job of saying there's only three ways to grow a business. You can get more customers, you can get them to spend more, or you can get them to buy more often. Right? You can get them to spend more each time they buy, or you can get them to buy more often. So to me, I wanted to say, how can we leverage that? So how can we leverage customer acquisition? How do we leverage the ability to get customers and our KPIs that we would track here? Our key performance indicators are typically customer acquisition cost, dollars per lead, and the viral coefficient, meaning how frequently does a customer tell somebody else without us even asking? Right, that's the virality coefficient. So those are the things we're typically tracking here. Our goal to get more customers could be to add an entire new channel. And that's something that we can do by paying for advertising space. We can partner with somebody who's got the customers that we want, or we can basically earn our way in to owning a channel. And that's something we call $0 traffic. We going to do it, we can do it through ads, partners and organic. And earn also means earned media, which would be public relations or content marketing. Okay, so. And that could be SEO as well. So ads are paid. This is our means. Partnerships and organic traffic, that's how we add channels and then traffic channel grid, the tool that we just looked at is one of the things we would use. Networking and content. Okay? Those are the things we need to make that happen. If we want to acquire customers in bulk, we can just acquire another entity or intellectual property. That's a stock purchase agreement, sba, an asset purchase agreement, apa, or a license. And what we need typically to do that is either we're going to pay for that, so we need capital, or we're going to go and have some financing, in which case it's debt, or we're going to do $0 out of pocket. And then to aggregate eyeballs Pre aggregated eyeballs is the other leverage sales thing. What we need here is COIS stands for center of influence. So people who already aggregated the attention and eyeballs of our ideal customer market and then tapping viral trends. So if there's an icebox challenge or something like that, how can we go and tap into that hashtag or that trend so that we can use that to blow up our customers? And then we're typically doing a joint venture or strategic partnership or we're going off of social hashtags here. We need centers of influence or trust agents, just people that other people trust that have their own followings and then social media. Then we go into leverage transaction size. And we say, okay, well how can we increase the size in a leveraged way of each transaction that customers have with us, and how can we use that to enhance our margins? So our KPIs here are immediate customer value, which is pretty much the same thing as average order value. It's only a little bit different. And it's just how much do we actually receive in terms of dollars now as opposed to our average order value, which might include payment plans and then our gross margin. Those are our KPIs we're looking at here. We're adding other people's products and other people's services by partnering, using an affiliate relationship, or acquiring those products or services. Okay, that's what we're doing to add other people's products or services. And it allows us to, to expand our value ladder and get more money upfront each time we make a sale. We're also putting these into what we call a super funnel, which means that we're just keep adding things on that we think our customers would like so that they have the opportunity through upsell and downsell offers to spend more money with us and get more value. We also could try to get just generally bigger orders. This is where we offer selling in bulk or wholesale. We do bundling where we put three or four products together into a kit or we offer the ability for them to buy more than one at a time. And these are really simple things that can dramatically move the needle. We also, the means for doing this is upsells and cross sells. And we needed to have offers inside the funnel and possibly resellers. And then how can we expand the value chain? So this is vertical or horizontal integration is what that stands for. And this is a quarter acquiring through stock purchase agreements, asset purchase agreements, or licenses, other people's products and services. Here you need capital debt, or you can do zero dollar out of pocket deals. And then last but not least, our third way would be leveraging how often people buy. Leveraging buyer frequency and our KPIs. Here is what is our churn rate. How many people are falling off every month that aren't renewing on a continuing recurring revenue basis? What is our lifetime customer value? This is also sometimes lcv. And then what are our number of monthly active users? That's another KPI because inactive users tend to churn. So how can we increase the number of monthly active users? And PIR stands for Product Innovation Rate. How often are we creating new products and services to sell to our audience? So the three things we can do here is we can add recurring revenue or we can buy it, or we can borrow it. To add it, we simply do something like say let's do auto ship or let's create a rebuild opportunity. And some of the means for doing that would be subscriptions or software. As a service, typically you just need to find some sort of consumable or renewable thing that will be of value to your people or that already is a value that you're not. Auto shipping, auto renewing, subscribing. You can buy recurring revenue by acquiring existing monthly or annual recurring revenue. Again, a stock purchase agreement, an asset purchase agreement or license agreement, capital debt 0 out of pocket is how we do that. And then last but not least, you can actually borrow other people's recurring revenue by outsourcing through partnerships, affiliates, or licenses to get other people's products that are recurring that you can add into your value ladder. So that's like also something that you could spend a couple of hours going through or an entire day. I mean really, if you broke down each of those three major categories with each of the three subcategories, nine subcategories under each of those. And then all of the method means and need in these boxes. It's a lot of stuff. It's what 3 times 4 is. 12 times 3 is 36 different things that we could work on here. And some of those things have different subcategories, right? So you could do a whole day with just this matrix. Okay. I give them examples to help them see the kinds of things that we do. So basically add a channel that you could do a channel partnership where you're partnering with somebody that already has a channel. We've partnered in the past with Salesforce, Entrepreneur magazine, Microsoft Keep. So like, what are those partner opportunities to get customers in bulk using stock or asset purchase agreements or licenses. We acquired DIY projects We acquired a webinar company called Event. We acquired a manufacturing company called wedogo and a thing called Platform University. So, so we all of these had a whole bunch of customers that were already there. And that allowed us to add a lot of sales immediately and then centers of influence and aggregated eyeballs. This is for us taking Business Lunch podcast and partnering with Apple to feature Business Lunch Podcast. When we had Richard Branson on it, they wanted an exclusive. And then we talked to him about that with some of our other larger people and in exchange for that, we got featured on their homepage and we picked up a ton of subscribers. When we had Richard Branson, we did several things. We brought him in to sell tickets to TNC and we're just finalizing a deal with a really big name to do that again. And we've done it with Martha Stewart and Magic Johnson and Tim Ferriss and a bunch of other people as well. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Marcus Lemonis. You can do shout outs, which are paid typically to social media people and then their TikTok challenges that you can start or participate in. And then for the last. And these are examples of what we've done. Right. So we've, we have participated by paying shout outs and we have participated in TikTok challenges. Now for the leveraged, adding other people's products and services. Partnered with Damon John on a Shark Tank deal that he funded called Spy Escape. That was our first deal with them. And now we're doing more and more things actually with Damon, which is really cool. And Damon's a great trust agent as well. And then there was a company called Survival Cave that we sold their canned meat products to our survivalists and eventually did a deal with them to have a deeper relationship in getting bigger orders. For our bath bomb company, we started offering Bath Bomb supplies and the ability to buy in bulk. So we sold to wholesalers. We did certificate bundles at digital marketers. So instead of just buying the copywriting certificate, why not buy the digital, the certified Digital Marketing professional bundle? That's all of our certificates, right? So Instead of spending $500, spend significantly more. And then allowing people throughout several of our businesses where we were selling T shirts to buy just more than one. That was a, that was a big breakthrough for us. We found that the average person bought about three to expand the value chain. When we wanted to add physical products to the products that we were selling online and the dealers wouldn't let us have a license to sell their stuff online without having a physical store, we bought one and we Bought it for no money out of pocket, called Banana Bay Tactical. When we wanted to add additional opportunities to sell to people who have different dog breeds, we acquired the Docs of Love and a whole bunch of other Facebook groups that were specific to dog breeds and people that like them. And then we bought Real Closers, which is the second largest real estate agent group on Facebook. All of these helped us expand our value chain. And then to add recurring revenue, we did a thing called the Family Protection Association Buyers Club where people could buy at a discount. We started Digital Marketer Lab, which was a monthly recurring thing that's relatively inexpensive for people to have the ability to find out the cool things and the tests that we're running at Digital Marketer and then our continuing education, we certify people as certified partners to. But they have to renew every year now so that that becomes a recurring product as well. And then buying recurring revenue, we purchased truconversion.com, which is a analytics platform that is a SaaS. And so we acquired that. We got all the customers that they had and we were able to add another recurring revenue product to our value ladder. And then last but not least, borrowing recurring. This is just recurring affiliate offers. So we would go to other people that had affiliate offers to that were recurring and we would offer their thing. And that was everything from meet to software as a service offers and things like that. Okay. The action steps for adding a channel with a channel partner is they go through the traffic channel grid exercise that I showed you just a minute ago and the channel partner list, like listing out all the channel partners. Then they go through for customers in bulk. There's an M and a grid exercise for aggregated eyeballs. They're just making a list of influencers and a list of celebrities for the adding other people's products and services. The goal is to brainstorm and test the affiliate offers. When we were brainstorming those lists earlier in the consult for them to do that. Now we're going to start testing those and partner with the people that are the best. Right. Then to get bigger orders. Can they wholesale. Can they find wholesale buyers for their products or services? That's a big opportunity. Usually. Can they expand the value chain? Well, then we're going through the mergers and acquisitions group, which is basically the acquisition wheel that you guys got in the last consult, the growth consult. And then leveraging buyer frequency, adding recurring revenue. We have, I call it a 585 exercise. But there's a exercise that will go through here for monthly recurring revenue in this console. So that's. You'll have that tool as well for buying recurring revenue. That's just the companies that we want to buy off the acquisition wheel. And for borrowing it's affiliate offers. Okay, so now we're going to do an exercise to scale our profit centers and we're going to look at what are the quick wins that we could have. Could we expand internationally? Could we manufacture stuff in house to increase our profit margins? Could we buy our competitors? Are there suppliers that we're using that we could buy? Can we buy our clients or our partners that allow us to leverage the business? Could we acquire a profit center or create one? Can we turn a cost center into a profit center? Right. Can we turn expenses into profits? And we went through an exercise for that in the growth console. Can we buy media that is complimentary? This is acquiring traffic, traffic channels. Can we franchise our business to other people or could we license our brand or our products to other people? Are there strategic partnerships and joint ventures that we could create? Can we license other people's brands or products or services? Could we go out to our customers and clients and crowdfund funding that we need to do something? Could we get debt or equity? Could we issue debt or go out and get some additional people to invest in our company to provide funding to expand? Could we borrow somebody else's salesforce or rep network that's selling complementary but non competitive products? Could we outsource or offshore functions that we're doing right now to be able to save money and increase profits? Could we add services to our digital or physical. Excuse me, could we add services or digital products to our physical products that we're selling or could we add physical products to our digital products or services that we're selling? And could we do some bolt on businesses which there's an exercise here for you. So this is a really cool fast way to spot a whole lot of opportunities. Then we're going to say, okay, let's talk about five strategies to leverage sales. You can leverage sales in each of the profit centers that you've got right now by focusing on pricing, market penetration, meaning getting more deeply into the market, getting a greater share of the market, geo cloning and infilling. So that if we see that we're doing something well in one place right now, where are we not doing it where we have potential demand? Let's go get the big places first and then we'll infill from there and go after the smaller ones. So this is something that Walmart did when they Went out and found locations that were geographically diverse from the big cities and much less expensive. And then you watched over the years they've infilled all the way into the city. So they went from the least expensive to the most expensive sites. We do it with events. We have Traffic and Conversion Summit in San Diego and California in the United States. We've done them in Australia and on the east coast and. And we're now looking to expand internationally once, once Covid gets done. We actually had Amsterdam and Singapore. That won't happen for a while now on the. We had agreements with people in those territories to go and do that. And then Covid happened and so we had to stop. Verticalization is how do we go and acquire up and down our supply chain and then licensing. So that's. This is just looking for opportunities around each of those things. So we go through an exercise where they brainstorm, how could they increase what would happen if they increase their pricing 5 to 7% and what prices could they test? How would they further penetrate existing markets? How could they actually do that? We're brainstorming with them. Where could we geo clone and infill? What are the additional verticals that we could expand into? If we're selling right now to a particular audience, are there other audiences or other people who might be interested in what we're selling? And is there an opportunity for us to sponsor or license for our existing intellectual property to other people? Then we do go through leverage, discovery and distribution discussion. So here we're talking about other people's platforms and we're saying, you know, eBay was the platform by which PayPal launched itself. So they actually said, well, these. If we're going to do a payment solution with PayPal, let's go and provide that to a place that really needs it. Because ebay didn't have it for the longest time. When Tim Ferriss released his book the Four Hour Chef, he knew that pirates were going to knock off a lot of his books. So he partnered with the biggest piracy organization, BitTorrent, that was likely to steal this book and give it away for free. And he said, hey, BitTorrent, how about we cut a deal? And he created a bundle so that they give away a significant part of the book for free. But then there was an upsell and a special bundle of products that Bit Current could make money off of. And Tim could do that. So that was really, really smart. I think airbnb launched off of the back of Craigslist, right? Facebook was the platform from which Spotify launched and then Tinder launched by going around with Whitney Wolf, who then founded Bumble. Tinder got founded by going around her going around to all of the Greek fraternities and excuse me, sororities, where the girls were and showing them the app and getting them on it. And then once the girls were on it, they would go to all of the fraternities and say, hey, if you want to date with the girls on campus, they're all on here. So pretty smart use of other people's platforms. And this is the actual one of the first Airbnb back in 2009 Letters or postings on Craigslist just so you can see like that's a giant company, multi, multibillion dollar company launched off of a simple Craigslist ad. So One listing built $36 billion company. And I don't know what the value is now, but last time I checked it was 36. So successful virality plays Dropbox did this. Also Uber Harry's which is a shaving thing. Groupon and Blue Apron, they all use bribes. So Dropbox said, hey, when you sign up for here and refer, somebody else will give you more storage space on Dropbox And Uber and all these other companies did the same thing. OnePlus did it with phones. Naked Wines does it. Gmail all did this. Facebook did it with waiting lists so that you had to get an invite to be able to come in and and be a part of the product or the service. Etsy, Udemy and Tinder used live events. Facebook, Lyft and Yelp used geographic launches with data informed expansion. They saw where the biggest waiting lists were and they opened up the top territories each time one of those waiting lists came about. So the question is, can you use some sort of leverage virality like that and then have a brainstorming session with your client about all the different ways they could do that.
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