Strategies and Secrets From Sara Blakely, Billionaire Founder of Spanx

Foreign.

You're listening to Business Lunch with Roland Fraser. This is your seat at the table. Thank you for joining us today. This is Darren Clark, the producer of the show. And you're listening to Business Lunch with Roland Fraser. We've been rolling out some extra special episodes this month, celebrating 250 episodes and a whole ton of downloads. Our guest today is none other than Sarah Blakely. Sarah took on a declining industry and ended up changing the way women dress. She's the billionaire founder of Spanx and was named by Time magazine on their list of the top 100 most influential people in the world. Pretty cool. But before I hand you over, there's still time to enter our giveaway to win iPads, AirPods, iPhones over@businesslunchpodcast.com contest.

And.

And for extra entries, the secret word is epic. E, P, I, C. Also, do us a huge favor and hit the follow or subscribe button on Apple Podcasts. All right, let's get stuck in. Here's Roland and Sarah Blakely.

So for anybody who doesn't know, Sarah founded a company called Spanx. Just so everybody kind of understands the. A little bit about the story, would you share kind of how it started and kind of how it came to be? Where did you.

Yeah, sure. I mean, I. I see a lot of men in the room, which is always really fun and interesting. And being interviewed by a man is also really funny.

You were going to distribute Spanx to all of the attendees. And then it was like, that just could be awkward.

So I got interviewed by Coach K from the Duke basketball team, and he spent 40 minutes interviewing me trying not to say the word panty. Like, he was so uncomfortable. And finally I just turned to him and I'm like, panty. It's okay, you can say it. He was bright red. It was really funny. So anyway, yes, thanks. What happened was I actually just took an idea in an industry that was very established that had been doing things the same way for a really long time. So hosiery had been being made to be seen on the leg and it was in a double digit decline, this industry. So the industry and what they had been doing for many, many years was no longer really serving women as much as it once was. So for me, showing up and saying, I just want your material and I want to make an undergarment out of your material that nobody can see was so confusing to them. I mean, it's almost like on autopilot, like, no, we don't understand. I was like, your material will change the game. If you can help me figure out how to make it so that it's underneath the clothes and completely invisible. I don't even want to see it on the leg. But I knew as a consumer that hosiery material was so lightweight, it was like second skin. It wasn't going to make me feel like I was wearing workout clothes under my beautiful slacks or dress. And that if we could. If we could figure it out, we'd fill a lane for women. And that's exactly what happened so well, with Spanx. You know, I never had a business plan. I was very interested in creating a product that I knew I could sell. I actually wrote this in my journal when I was selling fax machines door to door. My life was pretty depressing. I was being kicked out of buildings almost once a week. I had people ripped, rip up my business card in my face at least once a week. And I was trying to sell $20,000 worth of fax machines in four zip codes in Clearwater, Florida, a month. So all I did all day long was cold call. And I pulled over the side of the road one day and I just started crying. And I just remember thinking, I'm in the wrong movie. Like, this is not my life. Call the director. Call the producer. Cut. This is not right. And I went home and I started asking myself, what am I good at? What could I possibly be good at? And the only thing really in the good column was sales. And so I started saying, well, what do I like about sales? I like providing things for people that they need or that they didn't know they wanted but can change their life. And so I thought, wouldn't it be cool if I could sell something that I actually created or really loved? So I wrote in my journal, I want to invent a product that I can sell to millions of people that will make them feel good. And two years later, I cut the feet out of my pantyhose. And so I. The minute that that happened, I thought, this, this might be the idea I've asked for. So I wasn't going to squander any. Any idea but scaling. And after the product happened, I got all of my ideas from customers because I was always standing where they were. So, you know, I'd be standing in the department store and they'd say, sarah, you know, I don't like the shaper shorts because of this. And they have a leg band. So SP Spanx holds several patents. The footless pantyhose was the first one that got my foot in the door. But we have Many, many patents. And we've created undergarments and products that have never been made before for women. Like, our second product was our best selling. We were the first to ever create a Shaper short that had no leg band on it. And before Spanx, every Shaper short had a leg band to keep it down. And you could see that through a woman's slacks or dress. So it didn't really solve the problem. It got rid of the panty line or the marks in the back, but put a big bulge here on your thigh. So, you know, I kept saying to the manufacturer, let's create a Shaper short with no leg band. They'd say, it can't be done. I'd say, we put a man on the moon. And they'd say, well, you know, let's get. And it was always like that. So it was. It's been really fun to provide product. I've been very product focused. I'm so interested in how to differentiate myself and what is it about my product that I'm offering that's unique and that's where I like to play.

One of the things that I thought was really cool was I read that your dad early on gave you a Wayne Dyer product called how to Be a no Limit Person. I think it was. And you listened to it so many times that you had basically memorized the whole thing.

Yep.

How did that affect, like, when was that in relation to when you came into the Spanx thing and were hanging out in your car and feeling that way and all that? And how did it help you move along in this journey?

Well, I was 16 when I was. I had a friend who was run over by a car and killed in front of me. And then a few months later, my parents split up and got separated. So it was a really hard time for me. And one of the things that happened when my dad was moving out is he handed me this cassette tape series from Wayne Dyer, an inspirational motivational speaker. And it was called how to Be a no Limit Person. And it just happened to be the perfect storm for me. I think most 16 year olds may have thrown that in the closet, but I was so hungry and so sad at that time in my life for anything that may have. May turn my life around or help me feel better and get through it. So I listened to it so much that I did memorize all 10 tapes front and back. And it became a joke. In high school, no one ever wanted to be stuck in my car. They were like, she's gonna make you listen to this shit. And, and you know, what happened is so funny. Like 15. I don't. I think it might have been 15. 15 years or so later I end up on the COVID of Forbes and I got so many texts from my friends from high school and they just wrote, damn, should have listened to that shit. But I've been, I've been listening to motivational. I mean, I spend so much time as a door to door sales rep. I listen to Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar, Wayne Dyer, Tony Robbins, Brian Dice. Yeah, anything. Yeah, anything. Anything I could get my hands on. I'm a believer in that.

So what would you say? Like, is there anything in particular that stood out in there that you think really helped you or was it just the generally the who mindset, listening to it over and over?

Well, it was the first time that I felt that anybody was teaching me how to think instead of what to think. So I'd spent a lot of time sitting in school all day, every day being taught what to think, but all of a sudden have someone talking to me about how to think and how to process the world around me. And the power of positive thinking and visualization, manifesting things in your life. The law of attraction was really powerful and I believed it wholeheartedly and still do so. But you know, at that age in particular, and this is a life journey thing that I work on is not caring what other people think about me. And I believe in order to do something that hasn't been done before, you really have to work on that skill because everyone is going to tell you no and they're going to laugh at you and you will be ridiculed. Usually that means that you're, you're breaking ground and if you haven't practiced that, it's difficult. So I still practice that. Working on that. That was a real gift that he gave me thinking about that. And just, you know, I visualize things often before they happen. I'll take a mental almost, I call it like a Polaroid picture of where I want to end up. And then I let life fill in the blanks to get there.

That's great. So that was about 30 years ish ago.

Yeah.

And now you're where you are and have had all these experiences. Like what would be different now if you were going to go and create that tape, set yourself like, what things might you say differently than you remember hearing back then when you were listening to it?

You mean if I were to do it, talk to someone about it now or listen to it, it'd be Very similar.

Would it?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's kind of the same thing.

Yeah.

Still good?

Absolutely. Yep. There wouldn't be anything. I mean, you know, my dad, when I was growing up, used to encourage me to fail. So he would. He would ask my brother and me what we had failed at that week at school, and if we didn't have something to tell him, he'd be disappointed. So remember coming home and saying, dad, Dad, I tried out for this, and I was horrible. And he'd go, way to go, and high five me. And what he was doing was just reframing our definition of failure. So failure for my brother and me stopped being about the outcome, and it just simply became whether you try or not. So the only failure for me is not trying to. And that was such a gift, because fear of failure stops a lot of people from trying anything new. So I hope to instill that in my children. My children. I have four children, so I think my oldest, Laser, is here, and I have two nieces here, Kelton and Peyton, sitting there. But I've got a little bit of time to figure it out for them because they're still very young, but that was a big gift.

So now, speaking of the Forbes magazine, as I recall, you are in suit and you're sticking your tongue out. How did that. How did that come about?

Well, I don't.

It's a great picture.

Thank you. I don't really wear suits, and so they requested that I did.

Okay.

So they said I had to wear a blazer. And so I stuck my tongue out at them during the photo shoot. It just made me feel better. And then they ended up using one of the skin boards. I was like, wow, I didn't think you'd take that one.

That's a great shot.

Yeah.

Okay, now we have a bunch of questions that folks have submitted. Okay, the first one is, what are your top three most effective channels for acquiring new customers? And have those changed over time?

Well, I mean, for me, in the beginning, it was. It's all. It was all wholesale. So wholesale has been an amazing way for us to acquire customers and the boutiques and of course, dot com and now, you know, acquiring customers. There's so much more to think about with social media. And Facebook and Instagram have been the biggest opportunities for us in targeting and acquiring new customers. But, you know, we. I still am a huge believer in pr. My second employee was someone who I had dedicated to calling the media all day, every day. I've always kept PR in house, and Spanx has Never advertised. So we became a word of mouth brand that became a household name around the world with, you know, I started five with five grand. I own 100% of the company still. And I've just been self funded from the start. So I grew very organically in this process, but without, without advertising until just very recently. We did a very first print ad just to see what, what would happen. And also came with the whole digital package. And we're really interested in obviously doing that now. Cool. Yeah.

And you're in, is it 30 countries?

60.

60 countries. Okay. Expanding into those countries. How, how did you go about doing that? That's just a big barrier.

Yeah, yeah. Very similar to what I did here. I got on a plane with my red backpack and I flew to England. And I still have it. Yeah, of course, framed at Spanx, but I made sure they made the back so that I could access it. And I went to England. I started in countries that spoke my language a little easier and cold, called Harvey Nicks, Harrods, Selfridges, Fenix, and got into all of those accounts. And then with the same formula, I wanted to do press pr. So I started calling all the local TV channels and radio and I used humor throughout all of my marketing. I mean, the word Spanx. I mean, my category couldn't be more boring. It's shapewear and undergarments is what I started with. Now we've branched out into many other products, but by naming it Spanx and naming the Shaper Short Power panties and all of these things, we got a lot of free press as a result. Because people wanted to laugh about it and talk about it, especially celebrities on the red carpet, you know, they'd flash. I'm wearing Spanx, which is always great for us. But when I first got the press in England, I'll just tell you, this is how my international expansion went. I got a chance to be interviewed by the BBC. And halfway through the interview, the gentleman's like, so, Sarah, tell us what Spanx can do for women in the uk. And I was like, well, it's all about your fanny. It smooths the fanny, it lifts and separates the fanny. Yeah. And so I had no idea, but apparently fanny means vagina in England.

That's awesome.

So I was like, okay, this is off to a great start.

How did you discover that?

Well, the man lost all the blood in his face and he lost. Looked like he'd seen a ghost. And I knew I had done something terribly wrong. And the funny thing is, I don't say fanny. I Thought fanny sounded very British. So I was like, all of a sudden this word just came out and I was like, it just smooths your fanny. So. Yeah. So you can imagine, you know, my expansion was a little bumpy at first. I just told England, all of England, I'm going to smooth the wrong part of their body.

So I've heard some people say, and my wife disagrees with this, but some people say that it's a one kind of like a one time purchase. So how do you, how do you maximize lifetime customer value for something that's kind of a one time purchase?

Well, Spanx. This is the thing about Spanx is we make bras, panties, leggings, activewear, we even make men's. And so it's important for us to target our customers and let them know that just.

That there's other things.

Yeah, absolutely.

And do you know, like, I'm sure.

You and our products are good. They last a long time.

Okay.

They. So I, you know, they really do. But. But because it' more of an everyday item, people buy more than one usually.

Okay. You mentioned in the early days that you had friends and family buying things to kind of drive demand.

Yeah.

Are there any other bootstrapping grassroots kind of tips that you would give folks that are kind of getting started?

Oh, my gosh. I mean, where do I start? I'm still bootstrapping it. Yeah. It's just like in me.

What are you doing bootstrapping today?

Is it.

Is it grabbing the backpack and going to the countries or.

I mean, the first thing that popped in my mind is I just joined Instagram like five or six months ago. I'm the last one probably on the planet to do that. But I joined and I was asking everybody, okay, how does this work and how do you get followers and what do you do? And so the first day that I joined, I happened to be flying somewhere for business.

I saw you in the airport.

Yeah. So I'm in the Atlanta airport and I ran around the airport and asked everyone to follow me. I was like, hi, I'm Sarah and I just joined Instagram. And people were like, what is going on? But that's just. So that's an example.

How do you. That was great. I remember the video and I videotaped.

It and that's my first post. And it's hysterical because people are like looking at me and the reactions are hilarious. I literally made an announcement at a gate. I said, hi, everyone. And literally everyone looked up and looked back down and just like, could have cared less. They're all doing whatever they're doing. It's funny.

So as you get bigger and bigger, how do you compete with other humans?

This goes back to the not caring what other people think about you, for sure. Right. It was a great video. I like to do things, too, to embarrass myself often, you know, So I put myself in embarrassing situations because I think it diffuses it and keeps me feeling like I'm in control of the fear of caring what other people think of me.

What is your favorite example of an embarrassing situation you put yourself into intentionally?

Well, that. I mean, that one was pretty embarrassing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Running around the airport, making announcements at gates in front of everyone to follow me on Instagram. But I just.

I thought all you had to do is say, I'm with United, and they.

Would have been like, yeah, exactly. So I just. I don't shy away from it. I don't know. You know, I'm just. I think when. When you get embarrassed and you live through it, you're like, that wasn't so bad.

100%.

So it just starts to lose its steam. Yeah, yeah. Or its power over you. I did an improv comedy group for a while, and they would put us in unbelievably embarrassing situations, like skit comedy with a. Well, we would just walk into a restaurant, and we'd all have to walk in and stand on chairs and sing the national anthem and then get down and leave. You know, just really random things.

Now, how long ago was that?

That was right before I started Spanx.

Really?

Yeah.

That's really cool. So as you get bigger and bigger, you have other brands that might kind of encroach on things that you're doing. Victoria's Secret and some other companies like that. How do you address that or deal.

With that through product? Just make better product.

Makes sense.

I really focus on the product, and I haven't ever worried that much about the competition. In fact, I don't think about them very often. I'm really interested in seeing the white space of what I can provide a customer that doesn't already exist.

How do you decide? And that might be this. That might answer this question a bit. But how do you decide? Because you're doing several things now beyond what you originally started with, what to go into as you continue to expand.

Based on what I want as a consumer, based on listening to my consumers. Like, I went into men's, not because I did any market research on men's, but because I saw my husband and my brother and my dad struggle with their undershirt. And so I thought, okay, I did a little bit of research and the man's undershirt was invented or created in 1918 and basically no one has paid any attention to it since. So I find it fascinating things in society that evolve very quickly and iterate very quickly and then things that don't. It's like, well, you know, so I saw. I went into men's about eight years ago and just added a little bit of Lycra to the cotton undershirt so it didn't stretch out and tapered in the waist. So it wasn't this boxy thing under these dress shirts that men were wearing. And I've got different versions of it. I've got the tank version and regular V neck and crew neck. But that's an example. I mean, it's really just based on need and listening to people and hearing where I see opportunity to make something better.

That's cool. How would you define success? Like, when you hear the word success, what does that mean to you?

I mean, for me, defining success is following your own passion, really doing something that you feel very alive in. And if you can help other people at the same time and make other people's journey better, that's success to me.

When you think of that being true to yourself, if you were to think of a person or a couple of people who you think would be you would consider successful, who. Who might some of those people?

Well, I mean, I'm in a business group called Yeo, which is now EO, with 10 guys. And they put me in a forum with these 10 guys and I've been meeting with them once a month for 14 years. And they're basically like my brothers now. You know, I mean, we, we meet once a month, we talk about our businesses, we're very close. And then every year we go on a trip together. So it's me and 10 guys that go to all these different exotic places. It's quite interesting. And I like to say that I feel a little bit like Jane Goodall, you know, like how she got to observe chimpanzees in the wild. I've really been able to observe men in their natural habitat because they completely forget I'm there. And it's like, wow, this is really interesting. But I would think of them, they come to my mind and the reason is they have great marriages, they're fantastic fathers, They've each started their own business and they're very focused on the community. They give back to their community in some way. So they come to mind, and they're all in great shape, so that kind of hits a lot of the buckets.

Nice.

Yeah. And then there's Warren Buffett.

And who you got to paint his belly for?

I did. I did. I got to paint Warren Buffett's belly for my belly art book. He's the only man in my belly art book.

So you want to tell him a little bit about the project?

So I. Three days before I delivered my son Laser, who's back here, I woke up in the middle of the night, and I saw my belly, and I thought, oh, my God, my body's amazing. I can't believe it can do this. I don't know if my body will ever be in this state again. And I saw my belly as a canvas. And so I wrote down I wanted to turn my belly into objects. And so I wrote down on a piece of paper, watermelon, beach ball, basketball, and Mr. Potato Head. And then I went back to sleep. I woke up the next morning, I called a friend. I'm like, can you paint these objects on my belly and turn my belly into these? And he said, sure. And we ran around town all day, and he painted a watermelon on my belly. And I went into the grocery store in Atlanta and bellied up to the watermelon display. And you cannot tell the difference between my belly and the rest of the watermelon. And I did that with a basketball. I turned my belly into a basketball. And I went to a local park, and these guys were playing basketball. And it turns out none of them spoke English. I didn't know that, but I then just started miming all this stuff. I was like, can you look like you're passing my belly? And I think they thought I was a crazy pregnant lady. So they all stopped their game and posed with me and acted like I was in the middle of the game. And my ball was. My belly was ball. And so Warren, I was sitting next to him at a lunch, and he asked me what I was up to. And I go, well. And I pulled out my phone, and he belly laughed for, like, five minutes. When he saw the pictures, he goes, this is hysterical. And he goes, I want to be in the book. I was like, okay. You know, I said, well, Warren, you're not pregnant. He grabbed his belly and he shook it, and he goes, are you telling me you don't have enough hair to work with? I was like, no, no, there's enough. I mean, no, there's not enough there, but yes, you can be in the book, I was like. So about seven or eight months later, I emailed him just because I thought, was he serious? I mean, I can't close this book out without at least circling up with him. And I emailed him and I said, warren, Sarah, I don't know if you were serious or not, but I'd love to have you in the book. You know, here are a few objects that we could paint on your belly. That's left. And he emailed me back and said, count me in. So two days later, I got on a plane and flew to Omaha and we painted a yo yo on his belly because it was one of the last round objects that we hadn't already painted in the book. And he was hysterical. He was such a trooper. But, yeah, Warren. I feel that Warren is a real interesting picture of success in many ways, too. Yeah. I mean, he's so wise, and the way that he lived his life is fascinating. It is, yeah.

What book do you give other people or books the most as far as just generally gifting?

I mean, I like to give the Wayne Dyer. I've been giving the Wayne Dyer how to Be a no Limit Person series, which is no longer cassette tape. It's something else now. But I give that as a present. I've been giving that out for 25 years to people when they go through a breakup, when they get a new job, and for any occasion, really, their birthday. That's what I like to give.

That's great. What is your favorite documentary?

My favorite documentary? Well, the one that pops into my mind is this one called Water, and it's about a women's state in India. What it was like to be a woman in the late 1930s is when it takes place. Place. But I was so moved by this documentary and how horribly women are treated and their options are so bad that I ended up renting a movie theater in Atlanta and showing it to the whole company. The Spanx. Yeah. So we took an afternoon off and went and saw it. But part of what fuels me in my journey is gratitude. And I am so grateful that I'm a woman born in this country at the right time. I had nothing to do with either one of those. And so I just think, my gosh, I really feel blessed and lucky about that. So seeing that documentary, I mean, you know, at the time, women, if. So this young girl in the documentary, this young girl is married off. I think she's like 9 or 10. She gets married off to a much older man. He passes away within a few months of their Marriage and she gets sent to a widow home. And at the time in the country, if you lost your husband in India, you had three options. You would either go to a widow home with a bunch of other women who had lost their husbands for the rest of your life and pledge celibacy. If you were lucky enough, the husband's younger brother was allowed to marry you, or you could kill yourself and throw yourself on the fire, the cremation pit, when your husband was being cremated. Those were your three options. And so I think I'm like, my gosh, I was born on Clearwater beach in America with parents that supported me and a society that gave me options to do more.

Yeah, what. What obsessions do you explore on weekends and time that you have for yourself?

I do. If I can, I'll do some acupuncture. I like doing acupuncture.

Amateur acupuncture.

I receive acupuncture.

Oh.

Oh, okay. I receive acupuncture. I spend a ton of time with my kids, so it's really just about going to their games and swim practice and soccer, and we spend a lot of time doing that as a family. I don't really.

Other than, you know, amateur acupuncture, I.

Think is worth considering trying to do yoga.

Yeah. Okay, Good, good. And what would you say is the one investment that you've made, Time, money, whatever that has most impacted your life?

Two come to mind? One is the investment I made in myself. It was a pretty good investment. 5 grand to start Spanx. And then the investment I spent in building my family and going through a lot of fertility issues and treatments, but ended up with four children. So I'm going to feel very lucky about that. But those were really worth the investment in time and energy. And.

So now you mentioned that failure has been a key part of your life, failing to move forward. Is there one big failure that you would say that comes to mind or a couple that really have had an impact on your current success?

Well, failing the LSAT was awesome because I wanted to be a lawyer since I was little. And I debated all through high school, all through college. My major in college was legal communications, and I am a terrible test taker. So I took the LSAT and basically bombed it and then took a course and bombed it again. And thank goodness, because life had other.

Plans for me, I sadly passed the lsat. What else have I not asked you that you think would be really valuable to share with everybody here?

That's a good question. I think you did a pretty good job.

Could be could be kind of how you. How you start your day, what you do to get to get started, how you organize yourself or your thoughts or.

I start my day with a fake commute because I've identified my best thinking time is in the car. And so I live five minutes from Spanx, but I leave the house an hour early and drive aimlessly around town.

Do you really?

Yeah. And my friends call it my fake commute. And I'm the happiest commuter. You know, I let everybody go in front of me. People are flipping everybody, somebody off. I'm like, fine, go.

Radio on.

No radio.

Radio's on. And there must be something about the. The rote activity of driving that accesses a certain part of my brain. You know, it's. It's different for when I'm driving than if I'm just sitting in my house. If I sit in my house and I'm like, okay, now's my time to think. I can't access the part of my brain that, you know, I thought of the word Spanx in the car. I thought of all the belly art project with objects at every traffic light in the car. I think of a lot of my next inventions and ideas in the car. And I'm listening to the bridge.

Bridge.

Sirius radio. The bridge.

All right, nice.

It's the best channel. So good. And my husband. I laugh because my husband and I often will. We share a car and back and forth and doing things. And he. His favorite channel is backspin.

Okay, nice.

So, you know, there's the battle between backspin and the bridge, and they're quite different. You know, I got in the car and like this, you know, it's on my husband's channel. It's very loud. I get in. It's like, the other day, this just pops in my mind. The song was like, get your mom out my business. I want your mom out my business. I was like. And then I hit my channel and it was like. Like a bridge over troubled water. I was like, this is much more peaceful.

Nice. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

Yeah, thank you.

You've been listening to Business Lunch with Roland Fraser. If you're enjoying the show, let us know by subscribing and leaving a review. And for more information, go to businesslunchpodcast.com thank you for listening.

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