Taking a Project from Start to Finish with Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss

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Business owners, we're where we are, and there's where we want to go. And to get from where we are, we need to build a bridge to where we want to be. We need to build this bridge. And instead of just saying, okay, we're going to build this one bridge and then we'll build another one. Another one. We start building one bridge and then we stop and we'll begin to build another bridge, and we stop, begin to build another bridge, and we stop. And the result is we've got a tremendous amount of output. Yeah. Tons of output, tons of labor, and it's worth nothing. And I think this is the point that I'm going to. We'll get to the solution in just a second. I kind of want to belabor this point just a little bit because we needed to hear it, right? We need to hear it. So I'm guessing we're not alone. 80% is zero. Right? In business, when you're scaling, when you're in a competitive market, 80% is good. 80% is a solid effort. So if you've got a new marketing campaign and it's about 80% of what it could be, that's good. But you know what? When you go to launch it, when you put money behind it, guess what? It's not going to roi, it's going to completely fail. Right. If you put out a product and it's only about 80%, you may be thinking, oh, it's, you know, it's pretty good. It's good enough. Right. It is not this kind of thing where if you put in 80, if you get it to 80% of the way, you're going to get 80% of the result.

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Hey, everybody. Roland Frazier here with Ryan Deiss. You are watching or listening to Business Lunch, and we are talking about something cool today. Most of the stuff we talk about is things that are happening in the business. And it seems like that there is an unending supply of interesting things that we can talk about because there's always things that are going right and always things that are going less right.

So, yeah, I was going to say for better or worse, there's always something to talk about in our own business.

But yeah, lately we have had a challenge in getting things done at the level that we want to get them done and, and really at the, at the frequency or the speed that we want to get things done. And it's created some challenges for us in having things that aren't really complete all the way. They're either not complete in terms of they didn't get all the pieces done linearly to get the result we want or the quality of some of the bits along the way weren't up to speed. And we talked a lot about it and we have actually, we think maybe, possibly, but we have thought this before, solved this challenge. And so, Ryan, will you share a little bit? Because I know you just did the sprint on this, the first kind of iteration of it. I think it's going to be great. I love the result. Will you kind of share what we did and what your thoughts are?

Yeah. And sure. I want to say at the outset, so much of this is relearning lessons we've already learned in the past from mistakes we've made in the past. And so on one hand, it's frustrating. You know, I would like to think that once we've made a mistake and we've learned from it, that we never have to repeat that same mistake. But that's not the case. So I guess if you're finding that this happens to you, too, you're not alone. And where we've been, you know, you said it, we've been frustrated. Right. It's been really, really frustrating because we got a lot going on. We've got a number of different businesses, like completely different Businesses operating on totally different PNLs within our portfolio group. Within each one of these businesses, we have different product lines and offerings that we want to get launched. So there's 17 billion things that we want to do. We are not at a lack of good ideas. And what we're finding is that it doesn't seem like anything's happening as fast as it should. When it does happen, it's not happening as well as it should. And I think everybody's just been super frustrated when. And I know things kind of came to a head earlier this week. We should probably talk about that because there's probably some interesting lessons there, or maybe it created a little bit of a, let's say, fun, Fun conversations on our leadership team. But we ultimately realize that the big mistake we've been making comes down to trying to do multiple things simultaneously with just one team. Right? Every time we do this, it's the classic mistake. Every time we do this where we try to have one team or one person do multiple things at the same time, it just never works out. And we'll tell ourselves, like, the lie that we tell ourselves is, well, we should be able to work on, you know, this thing over here and then this one over here, because they're kind of different, right? This one over here, like, we can get started on launching this new. Launching this new sales funnel. Right? Let's get started on this. But, like, let's also kind of test some things over here. Let's do both those at the same time.

This was my fear when Matt came on. Because when Matt came on and he did epic, we were so focused. We got so much done so quick. We launched in a week a program that's generated millions and millions of dollars. And then when you guys were like, you know, yeah, we think he should be the head of all of these things. I'm like, man, that sucks. Because it means that he's not going to focus. Oh, no, no, he'll still be able to do that because we don't need as much on that. And. And I knew it wasn't going to work out that way. But you have to be team player, and you've got to say, you know, well, I don't want to starve these other businesses. But the truth is, is that we shouldn't have allowed that to happen. We should have just said, we got to hire. We have to go find somebody else. And these things can't move forward until then because we end up with a. With a bunch of stuff that's just kind of Halfway done, right?

Yeah. Both is the biggest lie. And you know, our friend, longtime war room member Carl White, who, you know, talks about this idea of half built bridges.

He may have even written a book now on that which I haven't had a chance to read.

Yeah, if he hasn't, he probably he should. But this idea that as business owners, right, we're, you know, we're where we are and there's where we want to go and to get from where we are, we need to build a bridge to where we want to be, we need to build this bridge. And instead of just saying, okay, we're going to build this one bridge and then we'll build another one. Another one. We start building one bridge and then we stop and we'll begin to build another bridge and we stop, begin to build another bridge and we stop. And the result is we've got a tremendous amount of output. Yeah, tons of output, tons of labor, and it's worth nothing. And I think this is the point that I'm going to. We'll get to the solution in just a second. I kind of want to belabor this point just a little bit because we needed to hear it, right? We need to hear it. So I'm guessing we're not alone. 80% is zero, right. In business, when you're scaling, when you're in a competitive market, 80% is good. 80% is a solid effort. So if you've got a new marketing campaign and it's about 80% of what it could be, that's good. But you know what? When you go to launch it, when you put money behind it, guess what? It's not going to roi. It's going to completely fail. Right. If you put out a product and it's only about 80%, you may think, oh, it's, you know, it's pretty good. It's good enough, right? It is. It is not this kind of thing where if you put in 80, if you get it to 80% of the way, you're going to get 80% of the result. No. Right. If you only get it to about 80%, especially with sales and marketing campaigns at scale, you get 0% of the result. It becomes this zero sum game. And that's what we weren't realizing. We were so frustrated because there was so much work going into these 80% built bridges. And we're wondering why we're not getting any of the results.

But the challenge at the same time is that you are going to go maybe even so slow that you don't have the money to finish things because you're not able to launch new products as old products phase out or you're going to get out competed or somebody's going to come out with it before you because somebody on the team talks to somebody else or an opportunity that is time based goes away. So the other challenge is, and this is something we've had lots of discussions about going back to almost 10 years ago, which is that we would do our event traffic and conversion summit and everything would stop during that time. And so not only would the things that were in the process of being built stop, but the things that had already been built would stop. And so we've had a desire this whole time to be able to do more than two things at once because we have to be able to chew gum and walk and rub our stomach.

At the same time.

We've got to be able to do that. And, and we haven't been able to. And it's really hurt us. It's caused us to not launch other brands we want to launch. It's caused us to, to have significant challenges some months with income because we're focused on, on this one thing and we can't seem to operate the other things there. And so I think a lot of it comes out of that too. And we're. I do want to talk about the solution now, but like you also can't just do one thing because if you're only doing one thing, as you get bigger, you'll never be able to scale. If Facebook could only do one thing, Facebook wouldn't be there. If Google could only do one thing, it wouldn't be there. If Apple could only do one thing, it wouldn't be there. Right? If when they're developing the iWatch, the iPhone goes away, nobody has time to work on it, that's really bad, right? Cause that's a proven winner. And so what we've had a challenge with is that our proven winners that are earning would stop earning or go down to minimal levels because all of the focus would be on the new yet unproven thing. So you have to be able to run at least the things that are working at the level that you are running them out while you're doing the new thing. And that just creates a lot of challenge. I'm not sure that we've solved that yet. I think we've solved the completion of the new, but I'm not sure that. And maybe even the optimization, but I'm not sure that this completely solves that other thing which might be Worth chatting about. But how have we solved this part of the puzzle?

Yeah, so I think it's two things. Number one, it's what we said. It's an acknowledgement that one team can take one thing from beginning to end at a time. And if you ask that team, hey, while you're working on this, also work on this other thing. You got to know whatever gains you get from the other thing, you're going to lose on the quote unquote main thing. And again, this sounds so obvious. It's what software teams know. It's why if you're doing like Agile, they're working in Sprints and all this stuff. We just realized we got to bring that same concept to anything new that we are launching. And so what we did, very, very simple. And we'll talk about how we got to this point. Bit of frustration. We finally said, screw it, we're going to stop doing everything except for this one thing. And everybody's going to tackle it, everybody's going to do this one thing. We're going to take it until it is done. And by done, we mean great, 100%. So we're going to look at every little piece. It's not just going to be good, it's going to be great. Then we'll move on to the next thing. So single threaded all the way through. That was the solution. Super simple and we got it. Now how do we solve for the long term and reconcile what you said, which is having being able to do multiple things at the same time. I want to throw out an idea for how to solve it by, by sharing what we've attempted to do. That was an absolute miserable failure. Because I think if we look at some of the absolute miserable failures, it'll speak to what the actual solution is. So what we've done is we've said we've got this good person here, this person on our team who they are able to take a project from start to finish. They are a zero to one person, right? They are a zero to one person. And what we've said is, okay, zero to one person. You're so good and you're so talented. You know your area, whether it's on the product side or it's on the sales side or it's on the marketing side. You, you can take a project from 0 to 1. So we want you to do that. In addition to that, we want you to also kind of maintain and optimize the other things. So basically one to ten. Now what we've realized is those are Two different people. Those are two fundamentally different people. And if you ask a zero to one person to also in their spare time, work on the 1 to 10, you're probably just going to frustrate them. They're going to fail at both. And if they're a true 0 to 1 person, they're going to ignore the 1 to 10 stuff. Cause they don't like it. They like the, I'm gonna take this thing, run it across the finish line, high five my team and move on to the next. So understanding those two different types of people is really, really, really important. So that's one mistake that we've made. Asking a zero to one person, also in their quote unquote spare time to do 1 to 10. The second big mistake that we've made in the past is we've said, okay, zero to one person, you're really good at this. We know that you can't do multiple things at the same time. So what we're gonna do is, is we're going to give you a team of people. We're going to give you a team of people so that you can do both the maintaining and the launching of the new. And you'll be able to launch more things now because you got multiple people. Well, there's a problem with this because invariably what we wind up doing is building a team of people who aren't quite as talented as the 0 to 1 person.

Also, I would argue.

And so they can't.

Sorry, go ahead, just say also, I believe that the, the zero to one person isn't a manager. They're really not good at that because they're focused on getting things done at speed. And so they're going to be the opposite of what a manager should be. A manager, good manager is a coach. Right. That enables people and coaches them through and helps them hopefully socratically come up with the answers to the things, the challenges that they face. But that zero to one person, that person is, man, we're going to get this done. I'm on a sprint. You're having a problem with that. Okay, I'll fix it. And that personality is not a good program manager, right?

Yeah. That person is not the ideal person to have a massive team under. And so what we've done is we've taken these amazing zero to one people and we've given them a team of people that they had to manage.

Yeah.

And said, okay, now that you've got all of these people, you can do multiple zero to one projects. That's not how that works. What you need, if you want like I think the solution is if you want to do multiple new things at the same time, you need multiple zero to one people. You do not build a larger team under a zero to one person. Maybe eventually a zero to one person is so good and they, I don't even say mature. It's not necessarily better. Maybe you get a zero to one person who can manage more zero to one people, but it's fundamentally different. But then they're not taking on their own projects anymore. Right.

And they would still move into management, so they would need to want that and also receive some additional training and skills.

Right, Exactly. It's like taking your best salesperson to make him a sales manager. You've traded a great salesperson for a crappy leader. So I think like, so that's it. So what, how do we do this? How do we fix it long term? We need to identify, okay, do we need another zero to one person? Do we need to, you know, do we need a 1 to 10 person? 1 to 10 people don't have them reporting to the 0 to 1 person. Even if they're the best at marketing or product or whatever. Have them reporting into somebody else who's more of a general manager.

So what do you think then? Because we have our 0 to 1, we actually, I think have two 0 to 1 people. Do we have the 1 to 10 people yet, do you think?

Yeah, I think we do. The mistake is, the mistake we've made in the past is we've centralized them at our holding company level and they need to be at the brand level. So let's get out of the hypothetical, right? Digitalmarketer.com, one of our portfolio companies, we've had marketing and products centralized for the longest time at the holding company level. We knew that wasn't right, but we knew we needed to find a leader. Well, now that we've got a general manager over there, a president, a digital marketer, we can begin to build a marketing team at Digital Marketer that is the one to 10 people. And that's exactly what we're doing at Digital Marketer. And so that handoff is taking place and then maybe eventually you get a dedicated zero to one person over there. But it's a fundamentally different role.

Hey, business hunch listeners, we're going to get right back to the show, but Roland wanted me to invite you to a brand new training that he's doing on acquiring businesses with no money out of pocket. It's something that he's talked quite a bit about on the show, but he's doing a free training where he's going to walk through the entire process. So if you want to get access to that, go to businesslunchpodcast.com epic that's businesslunchpodcast.com epic and you can get signed up.

I think that's also what private equity sees as a giant opportunity in a lot of companies is that they'll come in and grab the entrepreneur who is. Most entrepreneurs are the people who are literally their founders. So they are the people that went from zero to one and they're not really good. They're stumbling. This is a challenge that I think we identified with Scalable as something that needs to be fixed. That if you think about that. So these many entrepreneur founders, they go 0 to 1 and then either they burn out or they don't have the skill set to go to the next place. And that means that or they kind of continue at a subscale level. So that means that either you go out of business, which is our red line down, right. Or you kind of meander along doing kind of meh or you maybe sell and if you sell, you're probably selling too soon. You're definitely better off to sell than to crater. But the whole idea behind Scalable is that the tools that you need to be the 1 to 10 entrepreneur are available. Whereas growth I think is more that 0 to 1. Right. And then we have the impact exit ready that is kind of after. So I think like if you think about just in a stepping up a level for a minute that the business of being a founder, entrepreneur, solopreneur, non manager type person is going to get you to one. It also means that you're really, if you're going to have to make a decision, I've got a lifestyle business that's not going to really scale. I'm going to sell now and take what I can or I'm probably going to try to do this other stuff and hopefully going through the crucible of all of that. It is to get banged around to learn how to get a company to scale. You're going to learn all these new skills and actually grow the business. And so that's really what we're talking about here is that the systems of having an operating system and all that, you've got to have the person also because we have all the tools, we created them and, and we use them to make that happen with our businesses. But as we are going out to multiple businesses in a portfolio model, we can't do that. Not only that, we don't want to do that anymore. We're playing what we call above the business, where the product and services that we have now are the businesses themselves, not the widgets and services the businesses sell. So this is really a critical time for these portfolio companies that we've got. And a lot of you that are watching or listening, I think probably are going through that too. Unless you want to learn by trial and error the very, very hard way. Having the systems like we've created through the tools at scalable to do this or you also have to have the people that can operate in that environment. And we had created the tools that worked for us, but then when we stepped out of that, we were trying to have those tools work with people who weren't really the right people for those tools. Does that make sense, Ryan?

No, absolutely. I mean, I think you said it great. It is both. You got to have the system and the tools, but you still need to have the people to operate and optimize the tools. The mistakes that we've made, again, twofold, is we've been pretty good about implementing systems. It's why I feel like we are well equipped to teach and to talk about the implementation of systems within a business. But where we have made mistakes is we have either handed over systems to people who are not ready to truly run them, right? They didn't have, they were too low level, individual contributor. We've put people in positions that because we believed in them, because they tried really hard, but they didn't yet have the chops and we kind of set them up for failure. We've made that mistake a lot of times in the past. The other mistake that we've made though, which is the opposite almost, it's inverse, but perhaps even more dangerous is we have taken the other 0 to 1 people in our organization. And the trouble is they're the ones that we like the most because they're the ones that are most like us. But just in the same way, if you're a zero to one person that, yeah, you're the person to help create the system, but you're not the person to help launch it or I'm sorry, to help, you know, run and optimize it. If you hand this system over to another zero to one person and that's, that's what we do. Because you're like, oh, we do it. It comes from a good place, right? We're like, oh, I want you to have this because, you know, it's as though we feel like to hand this over to this person is doing them a favor. No, no, no. What you need to do is find somebody and they may not be in your organization. You may have to bring them from outside of your organization to run the operating system that you have put in place. And then you and that other zooter. One person go and build the new.

Yeah.

And they've got to plug the next person in.

We have wanted to, I think to our credit, but also to our detriment. We've to our credit morally, but to our detriment financially and business wise. We've tried to promote from within into positions that really the people that we're promoting don't have the experience and wouldn't actually get hired because they can't meet the experience description in the job, you know, in the job listing that we would write for that position. And that's something I think we're. We have. I think we're there now. I think.

Yeah, we are. We've largely fixed that. I think we've experienced enough pain around that that we've largely fixed it because. Yeah, you're right. I mean, and the simple solution there is you write the job description and say, if I were hiring this person from the outside knowing nothing about it, would they even be considered? If the answer is no. And don't put them in the role. It's not fair to them, especially when there's nobody there to help grow them. Hire somebody from the outside, let them be trained by that person. And maybe when another opportunity comes, they can take it in their own time. That's how you build, bench step. But don't hand one to 10, you know, duties over to a zero to one person. You shouldn't hand it like build the operating system. Yep, launch it. Don't just launch the thing. Launch the system that created the thing. Make sure that it's documented. And then once it's documented, have somebody else run it.

Put an F16 pilot in an F16, not a helicopter pilot. That's right. Right.

And so if we just for right now, I think the reality is where we are right now, we are. We have not had enough one to 10 managers. We're building those. Certainly a digital marketer. Others are coming. We've had to acknowledge that from a team perspective. Yeah, we got a couple of people who are 0 to 1 in general, one project at a time until we build out that team. If we want to do two new launches simultaneously, then that means we need another zero to one team and we don't have it. Today. So we're going to work on one at a time. Can I just. I know we've been spending a lot of time here. Can I tell you kind of what the thinking is tactically?

Yeah, I'd love to.

How we're going to go into this from a planning perspective?

Let's do it.

So as I know, you know, but part of our kind of operating system is we do quarterly planning as opposed to annual. And part of the quarterly planning process is, you know, figuring out what are the projects that we're going to greenlight this quarter to help us help close the gap between where we are and our growth goals. In looking at this, we realized that there are projects that take a week, two weeks and three weeks. Right. Going back and looking at. That's about. If you just focus on it. Because we've had plenty of projects bleed into five and six weeks. But it's because it was a start stop just about anything we would want to do. Launching a new product, rolling out a new marketing campaign, a new sales funnel, one week, two week, three weeks. What that basically means is in any given quarter that zero to one team can do maybe three or four new things, maybe maybe up to five if it's a whole lot of one and two weakers. Right. That's just the reality. And so it also, and we talked about this in a previous week, it gives us a framework for saying, then let's make sure if we're only going to pick three to five, they better be great. No more just good projects, no more good initiatives. These key initiatives that we select. If we're only going to greenlight three to five, because we're saying that's all this team can do, they better be good. And if we want to do more, get more launch people.

So the last thing, because I think we just talk about this time because we've spent a good amount of time on it, and I think it's important enough that people don't get distracted with something after this to take away the takeaways just in the actual meeting. So when you and Richard and Matt, so our head of marketing and two of the partners got together, you're really. Richard is ops. You're the, you know, the creator of that thing that you guys were working on. How do those three people work together in that meeting so that you don't step on each other and just kind of get lost in ideas and brainstorming and feature creep and stuff like that? How did you allocate the responsibilities of the actual doing and the Decisions to do whatever needed to be done.

Yeah. So in this case, we were rolling out a new, a new sales funnel marketing campaign. And so what are the stakeholders that are required to do this? You need somebody who's kind of on the product side, which in this case was me both because I was, you know, it was, I was the face and the voice of it for this particular thing. But there's always going to need to be that stakeholder who is representing product, the voice of the product, voice of the customer. There needs to be somebody who is representing, you know, who's on the marketing side, who's actually producing the copy and coming up with the system. And then you really need somebody who's just leading the whole thing, keeping everything on track. And that's Richard. And so that's how that was the division of labor between us three. And almost any project that we do is going to need at least those three roles. And you might need to bring another person in who's more technical.

So when you were looking at, like you were actually looking at the doing. So you have the 80% done thing. How do you approach that and assign to each of the people what to do?

Well, so I mean, that was Richard who kind of figured that out. I mean, it was just clear deciding ahead of time what is the scope of this project. Right. So what? Done and done, 100%. Great. Looks like we've got all of these things. And so they literally went on to a whiteboard.

So did you draw out the funnel? Did you say, here are the bits just to kind of help people get the like, okay, I get it idea wise, but how do I actually do this?

Yeah, every little component part that needed to be completed. So we need this email series here. We need this many ads. We need variations for YouTube, Facebook and Instagram. So all of the different, the full scope of the project was documented. And because we're all in one place, a whiteboard. You could use Trello, you know, any of the other project management things, but just first defining the scope. Okay, so if literally all of this gets done and it gets done well, then we can call this done. Yep. And then it was. There were times when, you know, I would go and work on my bit, Matt would work on his, Rich would do his. And then when we were done, we'd come back together and review it. Yeah, and that was the most important part. You gotta come back and review it, walk through it. So we're literally reading emails out loud. I'm walking through the webinar and the Training and saying here's what it's going to be and getting that cross channel feedback is what made it work. It's the editing that makes things great. But yeah, starting with the full scope tasking out who's going to be responsible for what. I can tell you I don't like being involved at this level. I mean this is for Scalable. So in this one we're both the owners and the product. I prefer the businesses where somebody else is doing it we're truly working over. But that's how it would work.

You also enjoy creating like I think, you know, you have a superpower that you actually also enjoy. And so leaning into that, it's not where you'd want to live all the time. But you and I talked about this. Scalable has really three accelerators. They're all done now. So we will not have to continue doing that in that company. So I think that's an investment that makes sense to make because the only other option is that we bought a company like that and then it's already got that stuff and we're not doing it. But because we have ideas and thoughts we want to share with people, I think it makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I enjoy teaching and life's work kind of thing, but that was the whole process. I mean it's not overly complicated. It's just going through the drudgery of doing all of the things and not saying, you know, okay, yeah, you know, we're done. We'll do that later. Because this came up one time, they're like, okay, these emails, we're talking about a 14 part email series. We don't really need all 14 of them. So like let's just, you know, to get this thing launched. So like let's just do the first three or four and we'll write the other ones, you know, later as the time comes because it's deeper into the series. No you won't. Later equals never. And then we're not going to review it. So that came up. Right? And because I even said I was like, man, guys, can't y' all write those like next week or whatever? Look at emergency. Nope. Done. Looks like all of this is done.

Good for.

So we're not moving on until. And that's where you need that role, right? You need that role who is kind of cracking the whip on everybody who's really that, that Sprint leader. And that's the role that Richard serves more times than not if I'm on the product side or somebody else on the product side generally Matt is going to be on that marketing growth side. Might need to interact, pull in somebody from sales but that really is what a sprint team is going to look like. Yeah, somebody leading it, somebody kind of who's the product and somebody who's going to be on the marketing, you know, sales and marketing side.

That's great. Awesome. Well I think that was super, super helpful and hopefully you guys will take this and finish the bridges that you have that are half built and increase both actual completion of the product from 80 or wherever it is to done and also increase the quality from to good to great and that will make a difference in your business. So cool. That's it for today. Thank you guys for all being here and we'll see you next time.

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How Some People Build Real wealth through Acquisitions While Others Just Sit on the Sidelines well, I'm here to tell you it's not about luck. It's about having the right system, the right deals and the right guidance. And that's exactly what we give you in the Epic Deal Fast Track. If you've been thinking about buying a business, but you keep getting stuck, whether it's finding the right deal, structuring the financing, or negotiating with sellers, you are not alone. Too many people waste months, even years just thinking about acquiring a business while the real opportunities pass them by. The Epic Deal Fast Track is not another course. It's actually an implementation program and it's designed to get you from the idea to the acquisition in just 16 weeks or less. We work with you one on one to help you find, fund and close your first or next deal. And once you do, we're going to plug you into our elite EPIC board community so that you can keep scaling through acquisitions. We install three powerful systems in your business. The first is the Deal Flow Engine so you always have high quality off.

Market deals coming to you.

Number two, we give you our offer and funding system so that you can structure offers that get accepted and fund them creatively many times with no money out of your own pocket. And number three, our closing and integration system so that you don't just buy a business, you actually successfully run and scale it once you have acquired it. Plus you'll have direct one on one support from an EPIC Deal advisor every step of the way and that's people that have actually come up through the system and done these deals themselves. That's the only way to become an epic deal advisor. And if you're serious about acquiring a business this year, don't just sit on the sidelines. Just text I'm in to 334-458-9034 and we'll get you in. So text I'm in to 334-458-9034 will get you in. No fluff, no wasted time, just real deal making from people that are actually out there doing deals right now. I'll see you there.