The Art of Curating Your Advisory Board

I can tell you it is shameless, but it's also. It really is sincere. I was chatting with, actually, my wife, and I was talking to Matt, who's on our team here, and I really. If there's one thing that's true about COVID it is a reminder of how important it is to get together in the same room. And you and I just got back from spending a week together in the UK and we talk literally every single week. But something changes when you're actually there in person, in the flesh. So I would just say to everybody out there, if you don't have that kind of community, if you don't have that kind of group, you're missing it. Whether you realize it or not, you're missing it.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to Business Lunch Podcast with your.

Hosts, Ryan Deiss and me, Roland Frazier. We are excited to get with you guys today. And how you doing, Ryan?

Doing so great. It's not doing so great. Well, no, we are in that awkward. We're in the final stages of prepping for Get Scalable Live, you know, which is our big annual event that we do. And we're kind of in that. It's always tough because everybody waits until the last minute to get their tickets. So I know it's going to be, you know, amazing. I know it's going to be awesome. But it's like this lull between when you first announce it. Everybody's like, yay, I'm excited.

I definitely want to be there.

And then there's kind of this lull where you see ticket sales start to, you know, dip. And I know this. I mean, you and I have been running events for 10, for over a decade, so I know that it's the case. But it's one of these things where you're like, hey, everybody, this is going to be awesome. Because I do think, you know, I was thinking back to Covid and Covid times, and I remember. I remember getting off one day when it was just all back to back to back zoom meetings, which I think is what kind of characterized all of 2020. And I just remember thinking like, God dang it, I'm so freaking over this. You know, we need to get back together with other people. And I think especially for entrepreneurs, we don't have a lot of places that we can go to hang out with other entrepreneurs, people who are like us, where we can brag, you know, and people will clap for us and applaud us, or we can just whine and complain and people will empathize with us. Because we can't do that with our normal friends. You can't brag because if you have any level of success, you know they think you're being arrogant. You certainly can't complain because you live in the big house. And so I just think it's so important for bootstrapped entrepreneurs in particular to have a place where they gather. It seems like funded startups do this really, really well. Certain industries do it, you know, do it pretty well. But I do think that it's vital that entrepreneurs get together and I know that's that. So I'm very excited we've got our event coming up, but I do hope shameless plug get scalablelive.com if you're a bootstrapped entrepreneur, want to grow from 10 million to 100 million, you should definitely be there. And ticket prices are going up and hotel rooms are being sold out. So that is a way of answering your question of how I'm doing while also shamelessly plugging our event. What do you think, Roland?

I think you did a fantastic job. I like it and I appreciate shamelessness, especially when I was in my friends and business partners.

I can tell you it is shameless.

But it's also, it really is sincere. I was chatting with actually my wife and I was talking to Matt who's on our team here and I really, if there's one thing that's true about COVID it is a reminder of how important it is to get together in the same room. You and I just got back from spending a week together in the UK and we talk literally every single week. But something changes when you're actually there in person, in the flesh. So I would just say to everybody out there, if you don't have that kind of community, if you don't have that kind of group, you're missing it. Whether you realize it or not, you're missing it.

Hey Ryan Deiss here, co host of Business Lunch.

And before we get to the show, I have an exciting invitation for you.

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This, if you implement just one or two key insights from any of our sessions into your business, you are bound to see a return on investment much higher than what we could ever charge for admission. And by the way, speaking of admission, right now, business lunch listeners can save an additional 10% off of our already low early bird ticket pricing. So just head over to getscalablelive.com and use promo code LUNCH at checkout. Again, that's getscalablelive.com promo code LUNCH. It is truly amazing what can happen when you step out of the day to day and spend just a little bit of time surrounded by other powerful business owners. And since this opportunity only comes around once a year, you don't want to miss it. Again, the link is getscalablelive.com and don't forget to use promo code lunch at checkout to save up to 67% off the full ticket price. That's all I got. I'll see you in Austin. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I like it. Speaking of that, that's a good segue into what I would like to talk about. I received an invitation yesterday and obviously I'm super flattered that I received an invitation to join a paid, a paid group of people that were getting together. I qualified, Brian. So, you know, suck it. No, they're gonna let you in. It's like in. Oh gosh, what was the movie with Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey, I think it was. Yes. Or something like that. And the guy's like, you know, I can get you into this very exclusive club. And he's like, what is it? It's like Sam's Club or Cosmos. I get you a cod, I can get you in. But yeah, I got this Invitation. And I sent it to you and said, what do you think of this? And what it was was I think it's called sidebar or something like that, but it's a peer group that is put on by one of the newspapers or one of the media properties in San Francisco. It seems like it's more localized to that. So I'm not sure why I received it, but maybe they're expanding. There are lots of groups like this. There's one from long ago. I don't know if they're still around. Alternative board and, and several of them.

And vistage, eo, ypo. Yeah, I mean there's.

Well, no, no, not really those.

Because they're.

Oh, so what's different then? Tell me what's different? Because I was kind of lumping them all in the same basket. What's different about, about these particular, particular groups?

Well, it's. I know EO has, has groups like the ones that I've usually been to have been the larger meetings to speak at. I know that they also have smaller groups of like 10 or 12 people. And, but, but the focus of this particular one was, hey, the, the magic is in having a board of directors. They said board of directors. I think that's kind of scary as a recovering attorney because directors have liability and advisors don't. So I would always rather be on a board of advisors than directors. But, but the, the pitch was basically you definitely do better when you have a board of directors. And therefore we are putting. But it's hard to find peers to do that. So we're facilitating the putting together and we're facilitating the meetings. And the meetings are virtual. And so it's basically just paid zoom meetings with the facilitator, with people connecting you to, you know, people that apply and somehow get curated into this group of similarly situated entrepreneurs. And so I sent it to you because I know we have a program that's like that, that's part of our founders board and I'd love for you to talk about it because when you and I were putting together the seven levels of scale for scalable, one of those levels is have your board of advisors. I think that's level four. And, and it is very, very number five. Okay, it got, it got demoted, but I'm just kidding. But yeah, I think that it's, it's something that's worth talking about for everybody here because you guys might be getting invitations like this too. You might be thinking about groups like ypo, you might be thinking about founders board, you might be thinking about sidebar. What is the advantage of a group of people who are there to advise you? If they have a vested interest, which typically a board of directors does, because they have some level of equity or options in a company, they're generally going to pay attention. You're curating them yourself by getting say, a financial person and a legal person and a couple of well connected people in the industry and maybe a well connected person outside the industry. And that's what typically makes up a board of directors. Board of advisors.

They typically are not.

And the board of directors actually elects the officers of your company. So they're going to vote and choose. They're going to approve major initiatives. They're going to approve like a sale of the company or major acquisitions, things that are beyond the scope of what the CEO is allowed to do, so they actually have power. And if you get a bad board of directors or if you lose control of the board, you can actually get booted out of your own company. Just ask Steve Jobs and a whole bunch of other people. So I think understanding that difference is important for everyone. But then it gets to what do you do to put one together? And so I'd like to talk about that first. I'd like to get your opinion on these different groups. What do you think of the. I don't know as much about ypo, but I have spoken to very small groups at YPO that are kind of like groups of people that hang out. They're not directors. They're more just like in this sub, sub, sub section. EO I know has, I think they call them forums, which is the smallest segment that then, you know, they get, they get together with 10 or 12 people and Sarah Blakely, who's spoken at our events and, and whatnot, has been a member and continues to be a big fan of that and says good things about it. And then you have these just boards like sidebar and board of advisors. And I think the one that you were in, which escapes me right now. Vistage. Was that what it was?

Yeah. And vistage is very much like a, like an eo. Both EO and YPO have forums that are the small group kind of deals and then they will also have the larger, you know, big events. And vistage is that same, that same way. I mean they broadly categorize. And I love the first big distinction, which is the one you made that I think is really important is the distinction between a board of directors who. These are people with actual legal entity based responsibility. They can fire you there. The boss of The CEO and advisory boards. So let's set aside board of directors. We're really talking about what does it look like to have a board of advisors. And when it comes to a board of advisors, that can be varying degrees of formal. Of formal. So a formal board of advisors. And you see this a lot with funded companies, this is where somebody that they're given in some cases a small stake of equity might be a quarter point or even a half a point. I've seen in some cases in the company to be an advisor to the CEO. So they don't have any legal liability or responsibility from a governance perspective. They're there just to help the CEO. And I think that these can be really great if they're formalized. And oftentimes it's the investor and the CEO that's going to pull those together. So that's kind of a formal board of advisors. Then what you have might be an informal board of advisors.

And this is where just you as.

The entrepreneur, you as a CEO are saying, I want to go around and ask people, hey, are you open to me talking to you from time to time? You know, basically if I have questions, can I reach out to you? And you're essentially asking for people to serve in some type of mentorship advisory capacity in a mostly informal basis. Now that's something that everybody can do.

If you have the network.

Now a lot of people don't already have that network. They don't have. They don't know a lot of people in kind of who are at their level or ideally just a little bit above where they've been that they can tap where they have that relationship, where they can make that ask. That's where masterminds come into play. And masterminds are typically paid entry. There's some level of qualification and to access this mastermind, what you're really getting access to here is other people who are at your level or a little bit above so that you can form those relationships. Now these masterminds, they also take on a number of different forms. So there are large group masterminds where there is a leader ahead of the program, somebody who's leading that mastermind, who's saying these are the things that matter. They're helping to curate the meetings and things like that. And then there are peer led masterminds. And that really is what the EO ypo what a lot of these. They're peer group masterminds. And of all of the different versions of it, that is actually my least favorite. It's the one that most people do. It's typically the least expensive because again it's kind of everybody just deciding that they're going to meet, that they're going to aggregate, they're going to go, if it's a, if it's a local one, they're going to, they're going to meet in the different offices of the people. I found in my experience in being with these, they can be outstanding but they're really only as good as the people who are allowed to be in that group. And because they need to be managed by the group, because there's not one unique defined leader, they have a way of just sort of fizzling out or not being very good. They can be really, really, really, you know, hit or miss. And because it's nobody's unique responsibility to make sure that it's amazing, they wind up kind of fizzling out. I've also seen it's really tough to get these things going. And what I don't recommend that somebody do is one that is a purely virtual peer mastermind. If you're not meeting in person. I just have not seen these. Somebody's going to call out, oh I've got one. I've, you know, I've had a group of people we've been meeting every month for the past 15 years, you know, over, it was teleconference and now we're doing it over zoom and it's worked.

Great unicorns but there's always the exception.

I've just seen it work, never times I've tried it and the people who I know have been involved. So I think the ultimate hack and what I recommend, and this sounds very self serving because we lead one, but I do believe that the best hack is to join a mastermind that has the kind of people in the room that you know, you want to connect with and then to leverage that group really to begin to build largely informally your own advisory board. And there are certain groups like I know we, we look to facilitate this within founders board but I do believe that if you're going to join some type of mastermind, you want to join one that, that you're paying to play because that friction is going to make sure that there's really solid people in there. It means they take it seriously. A lot of these groups, the reason they fizzle out is because there's no investment in it. There's no consequence if they don't show up, they're not going to get kicked out and lose their investment. So I think joining one, I would avoid the Virtual peer ones, the in person peer ones can be good, but you need to know that it's amazing.

And be invited by somebody else because.

It really hit or miss. If you're just getting this, you want to expand your network. A mastermind that is led by somebody who you respect, who, if you like them, then probably you're going to like the people that are in the group. Because most of these groups mirror the people that started them. They tend to attract people who share those same values and they're out there. And I do believe it's the ultimate hack. That's how you and I met, right, Was through a mastermind that I had started back in the day. But those are the different types and those are the ones that I would maybe go towards and avoid.

Yeah.

And.

What do you like? Do you have personal thoughts on what you feel? Obviously we have the ones we put on. As far as what you feel for you, where you are today, how are you dealing with board of directors, board of advisors?

I think any entrepreneur, if you've made the investment like we've made in masterminds, so we both run them and we're in them. If you do this for a decade or longer, you now don't really need to be in those masterminds anymore because what you've done is by being in them and by making the investment, you now have built your own personal network. And so for me personally, I'm not in a lot of them anymore. We run them because for you and I, it's a way to give back. It is an additional revenue stream, but we do it because it's deal flow. It also keeps us sharp, it keeps us in the game. But if people wonder like, oh, well, you know, why do you, why do you run it? Those are the reasons why we, why we do it. But me personally and I know you and I have talked about this, we're kind of at a point where I'm not going to say that, oh, I'm better than that. I don't need to be in those rooms because I'm smarter than everybody else. It's not that, it's that we now have curated people that we know and that we trust and that we do life with and that we do business with. And at this stage in the game.

For us, it's kind of hard to.

Imagine that there wouldn't, if a business challenge would arise. There's any number, half a dozen different people we can text and expect to get a reply because we have those relationships. And I think that that's the goal that everybody should have. It's just really hard to get those if you don't start in a room that's already assembled the kind of people that you want.

Yeah, I think the thing that I've been kind of flirting with is because you and I are at the same place and we talk about it, and I, you know, met you and most of the people that I know through masterminds, and that's either being in them or being invited to speak and share and get to network, which I think is speaking of hacks. To me, a wonderful hack is to speak. If you have something that you can share, that people find value, valuable, then you can go and meet all these people, give value, and receive value in return without having the commitment of the regular attendance. Because as much as I would have liked to have joined YPO or OPO, I don't know what the old person's one is now, but. Or. Or, you know, Tiger 21 and the A360 and all of those. Every single one of them is very clear with you up front that you have to be at all the meetings. And I have no desire to be bound by that level of commitment to, you know, to a group. I just. It's not for me. And I. I know lots of people. You know, our friend John has been part of several of those, and he's, you know, religiously attends all of them because you're required to. And I. And I feel like I'm giving up too much of my own schedule because they're pretty demanding. It's like being on, you know, having a kid on a travel team, you know, so you got to go.

Which, by the way, is the only way it works. Like, it only works if everybody is committed. So if you're looking to join one of these groups, you want them to. Do. You want them to have that. That requirement, and you need to be willing to commit to it. Otherwise, I promise you, the thing's not going to last. But I see where you're coming from.

At this stage in the game where you are.

You're like, I don't need it badly enough that I'm willing to make that level of commitment.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it just. I guess I was just checking because the timer on our thing was dark. I was like, oh, I hope we're recording the.

Here's.

Here's the thing that I've come up with is that it's. And you can help me choose the word for it, but it's either the deconstructed board, which I kind of like better than decentralized. The deconstructed board is, I think about it, like when they give you a deconstructed s', more, you know, for dessert, it's some chocolate and a graham cracker and a marshmallow and they're not together. And then you, you know, Reese's. Collide them all together and make your own thing. I feel like for, for when you. Before you have your network fully developed and obviously you're always working on your note, but like in the first five years or so of getting into peer groups and things like that, I think masterminds, there's just nothing like them that it accelerates your connectivity so much more than anybody that's not doing that. It's a formal process to expand your network. I love it. I'm very grateful for it. And I probably went a couple years longer than that. And the truth be told, I wasn't really getting that much out of it after that. And I was going, but, you know, it's like I already knew the people that I wanted to know. There were not that many new people coming in. I had a pretty full calendar between those people that I already knew, the events of the masterminds and, you know, the other things that I was doing. And so, you know, eventually it was just like I came to not enjoy it. And so like I would go, but I would be outside the room just talking with people that I already knew know anyway, maybe they'd introduce me to somebody. But. But what I found is that I could actually have my board of advisors. And it's because I go to the UK with you and we hang out, I go to lunch with John, I go, you know, meet with Mark. And I've got, you know, my, I have, you know, Deanna and my wife, who's a pretty good advisor. Right. And. And we don't get together in a formal meeting. But I am constantly having conversations with the people in my life that I have identified as helpful and valuable to me from a career standpoint, from a personal development standpoint, and from a business standpoint. And I don't need to have facilitation. I'm going to have one on one and my one on one is going to be better than the, you know, kind of elusive synergy that is supposed to happen when you get those people together. Not because there isn't synergy in having people together, but because where I am and where they are and our businesses are, I just find it to be more, more effective to get very concentrated doses of time as opposed to, you know, a lot of people, because there's also a lot of dead time during those events, you know, which is for networking. But if you don't have to network any, you know, so that's kind of my thought. What do you think about that? The deconstructed board?

Yeah, I think. I think that should be the goal. The goal of every entrepreneur should be to have an informal advisory board of people who, you know, that you can call based on any issue or challenge that you would have in business. And so if it's legal, you know that you've got somebody who really gets the legal and compliance aspect of your industry. If it's marketing related, you know that you got somebody sales related. And so if you think about any issue or challenge that you could face as a business owner, as a CEO, there should be a name or two for any category of issue, challenge, or opportunity that could pop up where you go, if it's something in this category, here are two or three people I could call. Once you have that, then I do believe that the formalized large group Mastermind loses some of its value because it's just so much more efficient to go to those people. Until you have that, the shortcut to getting it is to get into these larger groups and look to build it over time. Now, the reason that it makes sense and what I think is important is you're saying based on where you are right now, right now, that doesn't mean that you reach a point where you arrive and you now never need to go back to a mastermind. What it means is the next time you say, ooh, there's an area of my business, there's a new opportunity that I don't have that person for. So what I think is I need to be in a mastermind. And I'll give you an example of this that happened to me as recently as last week. I just got back from an author mastermind that was hosted by my friends Donald Miller, who, you know, wrote storybrand, and Mike Michalowicz, who wrote Profits First. These are people who have sold millions of books, business and otherwise, and they have this author mastermind thing that they that they do once a year. And I was like, hey, please, please, pretty please, can I get an invite to that? You know, happy to pay whatever it costs, because I now have a book in the market I want to grow as an author. There's an area there where I don't know all the people who I should know, I knew they would be in that room. So I was happy to make the investment in time and other investments to be in that room because I know I need to grow in that area. So I don't want people to get the perception that, because I know this is what, not what you're saying. I don't want people to get the perception of you're going to reach a point in your business where you're just above, you're beyond the need for it. It's just there's going to come times where you say, I don't need to expand my network at this time because I'm heads down working on what I'm working on. But when I do, you better believe I'm jumping right back into masterminds. And so I just think that's an important.

I'm, I'm more than anything at kind of number one, just saying this is, this is where I feel like most of the people that I'm networking with are and that a transition or evolution from a lot of the things that you see offered to a deconstructed type of advisory board could be a really good thing. I think that you always need advisors and that it's very easy. And I know a fair number of people who hit a level of success and then they kind of stop growing. They're doing great. It's just, you know, I guess it's a question of if you want to continue to develop professionally and, you know, and learn new things. And some people just don't. They're like, I'm good. I got a ton of money, I'm going to be with my family and life is good, you know, or you might be, you know, I'm going to do that. And I'd also like to continue to, you know, learn and do new things. And so, yes, I've joined an Amazon Sellers Mastermind. I've joined an SEO mastermind. I've joined, you know, in the last several years. You joined Dan Martell SaaS mastermind. You know, it's like we have, as we get interested in new things to get a like, massive immersion into the network. And to me, it's not even so much to go to those events is that I want to get the owners of those events who have the network that I would like to have to say, here's who you should be connected to and then use their cachet to, you know, to introduce me to those people. And then that to me is a, like a really, really rapid acceleration. And so, yeah, I absolutely agree with you.

And you Said it. And I think this is what to look for in a mastermind. It's three things and it's the three M's. Perhaps you've heard of it because you taught me this. But I think that any one of these groups that you join and it's, it's, it's, it's the reason that I don't just love the peer ones because the peers give you one of the three Ms. But they don't give you the other two. And the three Ms. Are number one.

Models are there models are there tools are there, frameworks are there, swipe files are there. Just copy and paste here and go.

Do this thing that are provided by the people who are there. And this is where if you're in some kind of industry specific one, you're going to get a lot of models and frameworks, you're going to get a lot of best practices. So it should kind of come with, hey, here's some general best practices, here's some basic training that if you're going to do this kind of thing, you should know about, right? So models is the first M, the second M is mastermind. And mastermind is more that kind of peer related. I've got questions, hopefully these people have answers. This is a place where I can go and ask for the fish if I need it. That's kind of that whole, you know, teach a person to fish, feed them for a day or you know, give a person a fish, feed them for a day, teach them to fish, feed them for a lifetime. You know, the models are learning to fish. Sometimes you're starving to death though, and you just need a freaking fish. And that's where the mastermind can really be helpful because it's the people who are in the trenches. But then you also need the third M which is mentors and mentorship. And that's what I'm saying. Having that leader, that person who has.

Been where you are and is where.

You want to be, who is driving, you know, piloting the ship, so to speak. I would really, if you're going to look to join one, join one that checks all three of those boxes that gets you the models, that get you the mastermind, that gets you the mentors, get you that one stop shop. Because eventually the models are gonna get baked into your business. They become your systems, they become your company's best practices and you're good from time to time. There's some advancements and it's good to learn about the new ones. But in general you're kind of good. You're rocking and rolling Mastermind. Your peers are gonna happen and there's gonna come a time where your mentors become your peers. And that's when it's time to look for new mentors. But I will. So I do think it's important. When you're evaluating, look for those three M's. Do they have all three of those M's? If they don't, there's probably a group that does. I think that that's an important thing.

I love it. So just kind of wrapping up for everybody. Definitely. I think that you're going to benefit from having advisors. And whether you decide that you want directors or advisors or both, you can certainly have both. Is something to think about. Based on the power that they have, the different types of things that are available to you, it's certainly going to pay off to be a part of some of those. And I think you just look at your own schedule, your own desires and where you are and say if you would like massive immersion into other people's networks that you would like to have, then there's nothing like a mastermind. If you are looking for very, very personalized help, but in a group environment, then some of the boards that are available are good. And obviously we'll chew our own horn with Founders board because it has the 3Ms. And it would have to, or we would be giving you terrible advice right now. Right. And then the last thing would be more. It's the decentralized board concept is really a network of mentors. And that's. To me, that's the ultimate thing that I think you're going to get. Once you have the basic network that you have immersed yourself in to get the highest quality, the highest level, you might continue to be part of a mastermind. We are. You might continue to have connectivity in small formalized groups. We don't really do that that much ourselves anymore. We do it with us, but that's kind of it. And then you go to this decentralized concept, which is really the network of mentors. So that's kind of some things just for you guys to think about. I thought, given that we. Ryan had just been talking about going to the mastermind for authors, and I just got the invitation to be part of the other thing that it would be a good topic for you guys, love to hear what your thoughts are. And if you have any other alternative things or concepts or ways of doing this that have worked for you, we'd love to hear from you at all of our socials. We have Social for Business Lunch. Ryan has Social, I have Social. It's pretty much our names at any of those things. And we'll see you next time on Business Lunch.

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