Kevin Jennings on Building Your Personal Brand as a Speaker

People buy from people, and your voice is a key to that actually happening. In other words, as speakers, we need to develop a personal brand. What does that really mean? We're going to talk about it today with this personal branding expert who is brilliant and funny and so dedicated. He has helped the the likes of Jon Acuff and Tony Robbins and the incomparable Oprah Winfrey.

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for this show. Let's dive in.

Hey movers, it's Sally Z with Be Moved. Let's go create some talks that will move this world. We're going to talk with amazing speakers, share tips, tricks, resources. And we are going to be moved so that our audience can be moved. This moved me. What is moving you? Well, hello everybody, I'm Sally Koering Zimney, your virtual speaker coach here at Be Moved, and I help purpose-driven entrepreneurs and changemakers like you leverage speaking in your business so that you can grow your impact and your influence, step on stage with courage and clarity, and finally leave self-doubt and obscurity in the dust.

And today on the show, I have with me Kevin Jennings.

Now, Kevin is one of my students. He joined the Signature Talk Studio program this summer, and I'm so thrilled to share his voice and his message with you today. He's truly brilliant. He was such an amazing addition to our STS this past summer, but I'm also excited to share him with you because of how important this is for us in our development as speakers. I mean, our ability to have an impact really truly starts with embracing our own voice, to knowing it. And we've been talking about that a lot on the show and on social media, over in the new Facebook group, Move Your Audience, if you joined that, I hope that you will because there's going to be a lot happening in there over the next few weeks that's going to be fabulous and awesome. And it's all about getting clearer on who we are and what our message is so that we are ready to dive in and finally create a signature talk. And it's so, so important for us as we develop our personal brand. And so Kevin's going to share with us his insight about what it looks like to develop a personal brand, some really important key tactics and strategies, but you also just get to hear how delightful he is, how funny he is. And in true Kevin fashion, he drops like wisdom bomb after wisdom bomb like it's nothing. That's just what he does. So I'm so thrilled. To have him on the show and to share him with you. Now here he is, Kevin Jennings.

Of course, because he wants to, but he just doesn't think he can.

That's right, that's right. It's so true. I felt it's been a joy to pay you.

Oh, I know. Yeah, I was like, oh, how do I get more?

That's true. Yeah, it's true. It's a joy. It's like, it's like, because it's a, it's someone who's, who's calling you out and saying, first of all, I believe in you, and then second of all, I'm going to challenge you to demonstrate you believe in you.

Yeah.

And, and, and, and so once that happens, it's just to activate something within yourself, right? Like, okay, maybe this is possible. Maybe I can do this. And yes, being stuck on your topic for as long as I have has not been very fun. But she's like, oh my gosh, let's go. If someone said Kevin Ryder talk about fill in the blank, I'd have been done months ago. But that's not the challenge. The challenge is, Kevin, you have to go inside you. No more doing what the world tells you. Do from within and come out. And that's the hard part. So once again, I can be going— I'm taking over. Tell me what to do. I'm here.

We're already recording. It's great.

Okay.

Because I knew I was like, just— Kevin drops the brilliant bombs all the time. I was like, I'm just going to press record and let Kevin do his thing. Another reason why I wanted you in my course.

I was like, oh gosh, well, make any part of this a testimonial so you can make this a video testimonial. Do whatever you want with it because I truly stand by it and it's been very, very helpful. Um, a ton of it. I can go— I really can go on a whole different rant just about, about what's happened behind the scenes through the course and the process.

Well, you, you really are, uh, I'm so grateful that you jumped in and that you were part of the course because you added a ton. Even, even though you weren't there for every step of the way, when you were there, I was like, I'm so happy to have you there. Um, your voice and your insight and your knowledge is a really beautiful layering on to this work. And I think, let's start there. Let's officially start there. Sharing a little bit about you and what you do, because I think, I mean, I didn't bring you on here so you can tell everybody how much you love the Signature Talks Studio, which I'm so glad you did. But really, I think that there's something powerful you can offer to other people who are trying to leverage speaking in their business. So what do you do, Kevin? Tell us about you.

Yeah, so the, the simple way is saying I'm a personal brand strategist, and, and I've come to now articulate this a variety of ways. Once upon a time I said I help people, you know, build, amplify their message, and build a business around their message, which is still very, very true, but that also in many ways means I'm helping you scale your reputation, right? And I think that's, at its core, that's what personal branding really is. It's, you know, a brand and then more of a reputation. And how do we scale that? Well, we have to build a personal brand. We have to make sure people do not get to interact and have the Sally Koering Zimney experience, that somehow, some way, they can say, okay, I have an expectation of what I can encounter even though I don't know her yet. And that's what we're trying to do. So that's a big part of the work I do. And in reality, people trust people. And so that is the— I'm helping people solve that challenge in my work as an organization with my company, Juncture32. And for me personally, I've had to recognize that I just care about helping people get permission to do whatever it is they want to do. I believe everybody's— valuable to add to the world. And when they hold that back, people are actually hurting because of them being playing scared. And so, so that's a big part of what kind of drives me on a personal level. But personal branding, so it's podcasting and blogging and helping people who are authors with their book launches, and it leads to a lot of different things, um, online content, products, courses, and how we help people come alongside for those pieces as well.

Wow. So I mean, that's a ton. And I'm curious what brought you there? What was the— why did you end up in personal branding? I mean, I heard a little bit about your purpose and your mission and what you just shared, that your belief system around it. I'm just curious if there was a moment where you said, this is what— this is how I want to impact the world right now.

Yeah, um, I would say that this particular iteration of things really happened. I was going through counseling before I got married, and one of the things that came out of the work I was doing was to develop a personal mission statement. And in that process, I recognized that, you know, if you could do anything in the world and you couldn't fail, what would it be?

You know?

And the answer came really clear. I was like, I would 'Help people reach their full potential.' I was like, 'What am I gonna do with this?' And so, yeah, and I reckon I have the heart of a teacher. I recognize that. Like, I'm really big in empowering people, um, and make sure I always make people feel limited. And in my own life, there are moments in my life where I truly felt like I, I was limited. And what almost always removes that barrier was someone sharing information, someone sharing content, someone— and for me, books and speakers and authors really changed me. And I was like, I want to do that for someone else, and I want to help people who have them like this help other people. And I started— so that's kind of what, uh, started the process. I ended up going to, um, a conference called the Quitter Conference by Jon Acuff, uh, back in 2007. 2010, 2011, and it was really transformative for me. And ended up working with John later, which is really cool. He's an amazing guy. And so, but that whole process started around then, and I said, okay, not only do I want to help people, I want to do it myself.

But I said, let me learn how to do it.

And the process of me learning how to do it, I became proficient at it. Ended up having a chance to work with Dave Ramsey, Johnny Tuff, and Tony Robbins, and Oprah, and a bunch of people. And it's kind of crazy to say that out loud at times still, you know, like, what? But, you know, but the list goes on and on of just people. And I'm not just being like honest, like, I— anyone who has any success in their career knows that so many things happen that you don't control. Like, the moment you meet the person who makes you a useful person. Like, there are so many— so I don't really take much credit for, for that. I just try to show up when I got in the room, uh, and do the best I could. But it's been an incredible ride of just, okay, wow, people do need this help. People who have medicine essentially for others, their inability to communicate the value that they possess is really what's preventing them from serving someone they can help. It is not their ability to do it. It is not the fact they have it available. They just cannot— they don't know how to reach that person, communicate what they're doing. And that's when I step in to help people get clarity and in some cases, get courage.

Love it. I'm hearing some of your new message coming out here, Kevin.

Yes, you are.

I like it. We know how much I love alliteration. So good.

Yes.

Well, I've got, I've got plenty of alliteration ready for you when you hear the whole thing.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, at some point I do want to hear you talk about your own transformation because it's very meta. What I'm doing, what you're doing, as we show up, we are doing the things that we are telling our people to do. And so you are developing your own personal brand. As a speaker, and you've been the behind-the-scenes guy, and now you're stepping out front more. You have been out front, but, but you're kind of owning that place and that space in a new way. So before we shift into talking about kind of your— what, what you want other speakers to know and what they can be doing to elevate their own personal brand, what I'm curious about is how that shift has been for you?

Yeah, I mean, I'm ashamed to say this, right? And that's why I can talk about the courage, because I've been scared a lot. And, and so there is— when that person kind of came through for me in 2010, um, it, it helped me so much. It was probably the first time I've been— I can remember openly being scared about my career. Openly feel like— I mean, I really felt like, what is this feeling of— you know, it just felt overwhelming.

Because before, I wanted to do music.

I wanted to be a music producer. I want to be a songwriter. I'm from Nashville. I live in Nashville right now. I went to Belmont University, studied music business. Like, I had— I was like, this is what I'm gonna do, you know. I got songs on some TV shows when I was in college. This is my thing. And, and I just fell in love with the business side of it so much because similarly in music, like a speaker you are told you can have this image of like, how do I make money? This is so personal for me.

Will anybody believe this?

You know, there's some who are quote unquote big and successful already. How do I close that gap? And all these feelings start to creep in because your work and your identity are so connected because your story is your art. And so, so for me, I kind of resonate with that. And so that Really, once again, my natural reaction when I feel fear at times is to fact-find. I will research till there's no end, and that's the challenge. Like, okay, well, I'll research, and there's a healthy spot for that, and I'll cross the line where it went from being something I needed to remove ignorance and maybe increase my competency maybe even reduce my anonymity, right? Gain some relationships. But at some point it just turns into you're using this to hide. And I didn't know that. Because along with Dave Ramsey's organization, I've never said this publicly, like I went hoping, okay, I'm gonna be a marketer there, I'm gonna do my marketing thing I'm so good at, but I'm gonna show them I can become a speaker. I'm gonna show them I have the capability. I'm gonna show them these things. But I was to be hiding to make that happen. And so I think the key thing is it doesn't bother you until you start to recognize that the hiding starts to cost you something on the inside. You start to lose confidence in yourself because you see that you're not keeping your word to yourself. And over time, no one— and that's something that's dinging you on the inside over and over and over again. And so for me, that's a big part of it. And also just seeing the times I've been successful are times I just kind of leaped. A little bit and kind of made bold declarations. Like, so I DJ, uh, for fun on the side, and I've been DJing for 5 years. And if the story of how I did it was like, I just told my DJ and that was it. I just decided, I'm a DJ, and they said, will you DJ my wedding? I said sure, and I billed them $800, um, and I got Spotify Premium, and I sat there and I switched, and I switched the songs really fast And I'll make my playlist and that was it. And you think, what, how could you possibly tell me you're a DJ? I just have confidence in music, I work hard, I'll watch YouTube videos and I'll just show up and do it. And 5 years later, we DJed in front of 10,000 people, my buddy and myself. We've done, you know, we do about 15 events a year, you know, obviously pre-COVID. And so there's this duality, like, okay, I've seen what happens. And for me, I just can't unsee it. And I really want to help the Kevin in the past. My parents got divorced when I was really young, and I had a bunch of trauma and crazy stuff when I was young. And I was like, you know what? I want to help the person who feels like my environment will not organically give me this information, right? I won't— I'm not going to pick up through osmosis. The example I have at home is not going to magically turn me into a millionaire and be some disciplined person with high character. I have got to go get help for this. And, and people like you, Sally, and people like those who are listening and watching, they have that thing for somebody right now. And it's crazy. So, yes, that's a big part of it. So for me, it's just like I really feel an obligation to say, how do I go back and help that person? And that was me a bit. And that's helping people who have a message and then also hopefully sharing my own.

Yeah. Yeah. So like me, what you're doing is— I feel really purpose-driven about it. And I know you do too, because when people step out front and share their gifts, share their voice, share their message, I know that it has this beautiful, tangible reaction out in the world. Like, it, it's, it's so fun and inspiring to know that and to be a part of that, to be a part of the initial nudge that helps people do that. Um, and so I, I think tapping into our own purpose, even for, for ourselves like it helps us get over whatever might be holding us back. Uh, and, and if, if we can really tap into that for ourselves and keep that front and center and make it really clear for ourselves, it's much more likely that we're gonna say, you know what, screw this, all these stupid ideas that are getting in my way. I'm tired of playing small because I know that there's a bigger future. And it— I don't mean bigger just like more money and more impact and more followers, and like, yes, but much more importantly, this, this sense of impact.

That's right. And that's right.

Yeah, that, that to me is what it's all about.

Indeed. And for me, I know that most people, they might have that in spades. Now, there are people who don't. I mean, I'm sure you come across as well, like, like, like they have an inkling of a feeling, but they've— life has definitely to them in a way where they are— they almost don't believe they have a purpose, don't have a passion, but they're— but they're staying this breadcrumb that just kind of makes them go there. Well, a lot of people already have that. They know their mission, they know their passion, they know what they want to do, but it is the monetization part of it. Right. And so that's a big part of it too. And transparently, I like the challenge of creating things that produce value in people's lives and produce revenue. It is a personal thing. I know people just like money motivated is not their thing. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not driven by money. I had to figure that out too. I'm not driven by money, but I like the challenge of can we turn this into money to the point where my wife actually makes me intentionally not try to sell everything. I try to turn everything into money.

I'm like, what if, what if?

Right now, we just— right now our daughter's 4 years old. We just make her a model for just 2 years. She's really cute. Like, look at her. Like, you'll see that's adorable. And I was like, no. I'm like, okay, what about— I'm like, I'll try anything.

She's there to be like, Kevin, slow it down.

But it's true. To the point where my wife's like, hey, don't ruin that friendship by trying to make money with that person. Like, okay, I promise I won't do it. Uh, because I just see opportunity like that. And so And that's my wiring. And so that's my, that's my role. My role is that people like me, like you, like those who are watching and listening say, okay, it's one thing to have the talent, it's one thing to have the message, it's one thing. But at some point, if I want to help more people, sustainability is required. And that's what drives me. The sustainability of the effort, the sustainability to actually say, people can be helped because I don't have to say if I don't get it right this one time in history, all is lost. And I think that is the feeling, right? It's that they go on The Voice and say, I'm going to audition here, but I just— this is my last shot. If I don't get this, I'll never be able to make it. You're like, why? Why is Blake Shelton deciding if you never sing again? This makes no sense to me. So that's how I feel about the work. Like, hey, can we have more at-bats?

Mm, yes. Okay, so now we're getting to some strategy, and that's what I would love to pull from you. Or what are some things that we as speakers and people who want to speak more and leverage speaking in our business, what can we be doing to elevate our own personal brand so that we have the platform that we need and that oftentimes event people are looking for, and that we have the impact that we want to have.

Yeah, I think the first thing I would probably say, if you're starting right now, you know, is probably you have to— we'll talk about the how in a second. Let me talk about the what. Like, I think the key thing is you have to know what you want. And the reality is, because there are so many ways to do this. I do all the time, like, Kevin, what's your tried and true method? I'm like, I have a framework to think things through, but you have to customize that. The people you're serving are unique. You are unique. The message you're hopefully presenting is unique. And so you have to leverage all of those together to hopefully find the alchemy, that kind of right mix for you. And especially because One of the things we don't often own enough is our limitations in a beautiful way, right? Research already shows us that boundaries and limitations actually drive creativity. So if you're saying to yourself, oh, I don't have, I don't have this, that's actually to your advantage to leverage your limitations, right? Because you're saying, hey, all I have is my cell phone. I don't have a laptop even. Well, that means you need to lock in on that. What can you do from a cell phone? And it's gonna limit your options in a way that actually is gonna say, I have to maximize 1 or 2 opportunities. I'm not going to be distracted trying everything versus someone who has every resource in the world. They can almost be paralyzed by analysis because they have so many options. And so I think the key thing is owning, hey, all right, so let's be honest. What does the audience need from me as far as not just what I say, but where I say it to them for them to get it? I tell people all the time, you know, like there's still a reason Well, Pinterest isn't as quote unquote, you know, sexy as it was a platform a couple years ago. But the reality is the people who use it have, I mean, predominantly women, predominantly mothers. Their buying power in the household is ridiculously powerful. I get it, it is what it is. And so you're a bit, you, you saying, oh, I'm not doing it because that's not the cool trendy thing for my audience, trendy thing right now in social media world. Well, that's not helping you. Because your audience is where they are, so you gotta meet people where they are, for sure, is what I always say. Meet people where they are. The other thing is you, you know, this is what I always try to say, is, well, I look at social media like a party, okay? And so every party has its own set of rules. So Sally's doing a Fourth of July party, that means the attire is red, white, and blue, it's probably gonna be a barbecue outside, you know, or something like that, and so there's gonna be fireworks, and so it's a different vibe. You know, okay, I'm doing a Labor Day party, maybe it's a white party, 'cause like the last day you can wear white by rules I don't know, I don't agree with. And you show up and you're, you know, and so you're wearing all white, right? That's Facebook. Facebook is a lot like a family reunion. It is a lot like a high school reunion. It's a social club, like they are grouping people by geography, by past experiences. There's a network that has to ground you, even if it's common interest like Sally's new speaking group. And so, and so, which you can find in the show notes, I'm sure. Then, then, you know, at that point, you, you have to ground your way in that way. Well, YouTube's more like a watch party, right? So for YouTube, either we're either gathering to watch a video asynchronously, but watch a video we all have seen, right? So it's like, this video's gone viral. Well, I'm watching it 'cause over 2 million people have already watched it. So I wanna know what everybody's watching. Or, you know, that's like the Super Bowl, right? We all kinda gather and say, well, I'm watching 'cause everybody else is watching it, or I'm watching 'cause I'm a really big fan. But we're watching because it's popular, it's important based on our niche or something like that, right? Our community cares about this video. And so, Twitter's like a mixer. You can interrupt people and just jump in their conversations and no one thinks it's weird. Right? Like, no one says, "I don't know you." And so the key thing is you have to follow those rules, right? My house, my rules. And the challenge for many of us is we want to impose our rules on someone else's party. So you have to show up saying, "I'm gonna play by their rules because they're rewarding me for playing by their rules." Right? So Instagram just launches Instagram Reels. We all know if you jump on Reels right now, you're likely gonna get way more visibility on your content because they're trying to drive adoption of the feature. So that's the rule. I don't care if you're like, well, they may not like Reels. Try it because you're—

the rules, the rules are the rules.

I didn't, I didn't call you out by name, Sally, but Sally, get on Reels.

I know. Okay. I'm gonna today. I'm gonna do it later today.

Just try one. Oh, and I got a great idea from Tyler J. McCall. Create a burner account, create a burner Instagram account and just try stuff where no one's looking. So if you, if you, if you're nervous about looking silly the first time, which I totally understand that feeling, create a burner account, switch into it, try everything, break stuff with zero followers, or maybe get one person, one friend of yours to follow you and just break stuff. Get your assistant to follow you and you just try things. You just, but no one has to see it. Um, and that's one— actually, one of the tips I have for you: every personality, every author that I work with that's really thriving, they have a laboratory.

All of them.

I don't— I can't think of one person I've worked with who's really thriving that doesn't have a laboratory. And by that, I mean this: they've chosen one channel they're going to communicate through— podcast, blog, social media, where they open, where they internally embrace the idea, this will be the place where I can do whatever I want. Whatever I want, when I want, how I want. Because what we are so used to prescribing the strategy with the steps and the perfect times to post and what to say, how to structure it, how to close the webinar, right? If you do that, you actually, you're forcing yourself to be a carbon copy in some ways, and you've never even broken the rules. Anyone who's been a beginner knows sometimes you do things as a beginner that are so awesome that you can never replicate again because you know too much, right? Like, there's no— yes, is Sally a master communicator? Of course she is. But there's some things that newbie Sally was doing that were interesting and breaking the rules, but she just, she knows the rules. She knows psychology, she knows human nature. Like, she would almost take her more to break a rule now because she just knows What now? She can break some rules, right? She can improvise better than most of us, but she knows the rules. And I think that's part of being a newbie that's fun. So create a laboratory where every random idea you can have. So for Carey Nieuwhof, a leadership podcaster, for him, his blog is his laboratory. He writes last minute. He writes what he wants to say. You know, yes, there's a little bit more strategy now because it's more of a sales channel, but he writes what he wants to write. He's reading a book about sleep. He's writing about sleep, you know, he's, he gets to process what he's thinking about through the lens of his audience and through leadership in this kind of laboratory. But guess what? We did that a couple of times and some content rose to the top and we said, you know what? What if we turned some of these blog posts into a book? And that's what we did. We literally took his blog posts. I mean, literally content you can read for free, repackaged it, told people in the foreword, This is exactly the same content from my blog repackaged in the book. And then, and then we sold $100,000 worth of books, you know, it's like because they didn't want to read 70 blog articles to get the content. But we only knew it worked because we saw what they were responding to in the laboratory. Um, for Jeanette Maker, it's Instagram. Her Instagram is truly a pleasure. She just, she, I mean, it is me unfiltered. I am dealing and talking and being myself. I see what resonates there and it turns into other things, other places, you know? And so I think you, I think you have to say, what's, what's my lab? What's the place that I get to go and just do and be? Um, some people, it's their podcast. They, they jump on and have conversations that they just enjoy and it turns into other stuff. Uh, for Tim Ferriss, I mean, Tim Ferriss's last 2, 3 books, right? Tribe of Mentors, um, Tools of Titans, were really almost crowdsourced from his podcast. So you get to figure that out, um, as you go, but you need to build a place where you feel safe to experiment as well.

Part of what you're saying, Kevin, that's really important is there's an element of experimentation and fun and freedom where we are without the fear of like the eyes or the audience or how it's going to be received. It's like, nope, I need a place where I can let go of those things and have fun. And the—

how do you—

oh my gosh, we need that so badly, especially because I think, um, like you said, we can be drawn in and sucked into this is the way it should happen. This is the way it should be done, this is the pathway, this is the approach, and we gotta break some rules in order for us to really find our voice.

Absolutely, absolutely. And now, and from there you start seeing all the inklings of things that resonate, things you can build upon, um, content you might want to build out further. Someone might comment and say, oh, I love this quote. Okay, that's a big piece. I didn't know that people cared about that one that much. That was a throwaway line for me, you know. Things that you just didn't think you're gonna build upon, I think is a big part of it. And I think the other thing is this, today's media landscape is so fragmented that you will not serve everyone everywhere. You mean, it's like you can't just say, I'm just gonna do this thing, one thing and get all my people in one place. You can't, and it's because the New York Times, has a daily news podcast and Fox puts out a daily news podcast. So that means going to their website, watching them on TV, you know, I don't have to, right? The news that I wanna consume, oh, I go, I follow on Instagram, I see the news headlines on Instagram. Like you, they will come to you, which means you have to say, people have to contextualize my content in multiple places because no one's following me everywhere. So the days of follow me on Twitter and follow me on Instagram and follow me— no, I'm gonna choose the one I like. I'm gonna follow you one place because that's where I like to hang out. And it's not personal. I'm not ignoring you. This is just my approach. And so I think, so I think that's, and that's the pressure to be everywhere, right? There's pressure to do all the things. And I understand that. So I'm not saying you don't start there, but you own that I'm building from here. To go other places because you're required to. And it was one of the things like sell something. And I mean, just sell, I mean, sell something, sell something. And the key thing is because as a person who is a content consumption junkie, I can attest on a personal level, but also through what I've seen with my clients that Some people are gonna be content, what can I say? How can I say this without sounding so rude? They're content hoarders. So they're gonna download every PDF you put out. They're gonna download and watch every webinar you do. Now, is it helping your brand? Of course it is, because someone's getting served by you that turned into an advocate on your behalf. I was a content consumer of, you know, Be Moved and the content that Sally was putting out, and I was enjoying it from the sidelines, but then Sally said, said, hey, you on the sidelines, no more sitting on the sidelines. I'm working way too hard giving you all this free stuff for you to sit around on your tail all day and not work with me. You know, because that's what, because that's what it takes. At some point you have to say, okay, Kevin, I hope I've served you enough, but I've got to call you out. Not just for me, for your sake too, but it's a reality. I can't keep helping you for free. So at some point we're gonna have a conversation, and I think, you know, she didn't— of course you wouldn't say it that way.

Push him because I want to work with him, A, selfishly, but B, because I knew that there was more for you. But here's what I want to say about that, because I spent too many years not selling things.

Years.

Because I was like, I do my one-on-one coaching, but then I'm building this online world and was afraid to sell things. I was— I, I wasn't sure if it was valuable. I wasn't sure how to do it. I wasn't afraid to talk about it, but I I just didn't, I didn't take the leap on that. And it was a really hard transition for a lot of my audience. And so convincing people now that this is what I do, there's always gonna be free stuff, there's always, I mean, I give a ton of free stuff away, but I'm ramping up the selling side of things. And we need to because people are getting more results, bigger value. There is like— I cannot even explain. Now I feel really passionate about the need to sell something and even don't downplay the price of it, because that's right, the more invested people are in what you are doing and trying to teach and what you're trying sell, the bigger results they get. It's—

yeah. Yes.

I mean, people say that, but it's really, really—

no, it's true. It's true. And there's two reasons why. I think one thing is, to one, I seem seeing value. I have a question for you. I'm gonna flip the turntable on you one second. Um, but the, the, the thing about that is also is selling is a skill too that takes practice. And the longer you put off doing it, The bigger and scarier it feels, the more you're not gonna be good at the first time like anything else in the world you're doing. And then the other part is for those who do want to work with you, they're not even being given an option. See, and this is where the playing small hurts the people on the other end. It's the idea of saying, okay, so what? Only 5% people watching wanna go deeper. You're not gonna let me? You're gonna say— because the question I'm asking myself, and I've heard there's a— the quote goes, there's a problem inherent in every solution. So what happens is you solve one problem for me, and I'm saying, okay, now I have a new problem because, because of your solution, right? So for example, my wife and I— well, let's say you, you know, we have another child, and so We buy a car seat, right? Well, the next thing about the car seat is gonna be, well, how do I keep the car seat clean? How do I make sure that the food that they eat doesn't end up in every nook and cranny of my car? There's gonna be a bunch of things that come out, just simple, small things, right? So that's why they sell you this other piece. They say like, the problem, the solution brings new problems. And I think for each of us, we have to say, that means when I'm helping somebody, I have to answer the question, what now and what next? Every single time. What now? What next? What now? What next? Those are— they're already saying to themselves. And so when we don't acknowledge that question with a solution, we're actually leaving them hanging. And I think that's the difference. It's not— it actually almost— we're undermining our own helpfulness because the person's saying, you're gonna just leave me here to just figure this out by myself? You got me here? Yep, see ya. And so I think there's a little bit of that on it. So, Sally, I'll ask you a question. What was the turning point when you finally said, I refuse to not sell online? Um, what compelled you?

I think a particular moment is not jumping out for me, but I had been wanting to for so long. And not feeling like I was ready, not feeling like I had enough people on my email list, not feeling like it was just never enough, and in my mind, for it to be successful. And I finally, I think it was, I was sitting, I'm remembering now, I was sitting in my living room and my husband and I were talking about about like goals and plans for next year, and I was repeating the same goal, having had no results the year before because I didn't do anything. I was like, I'm gonna sell some online courses. And he was like, are you really gonna do this? And I was like, I have to, because I do not want to be in the same spot next year. I just do not— a year from now being like I still didn't do it. I was like, I just, I feel sick to my stomach if a year from now I'm still here. So yeah, I was like, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta. And it's been a like just a driver ever since then because time flies. Yes, it flies. And all of a sudden it's a year later. And I did not want to feel that way anymore.

And see, and that's it. The fact that you could be motivated just by that account, that amount of accountability with your husband, and like, that's great. Because I can tell you, for me, it is the long hours I'm spending with a client that I know, hey, my wife's going to go into labor in a few weeks. Can I really disengage for as long as I want to? That should be the question I'm asking myself, right? Or, you know what? COVID hit, some contracts had to end. My revenue's gone. What? Like, no, like that, that shouldn't be the thing, you know? And so for me, it's not just the impact, which obviously is there for all of us, right? But going to the word sustainability, right? There's a sustainable component to this that says, hey, if I want to keep helping people, I've got to find a way to sustain. And to me, I said, I wish I was like Sally. I wish just saying the goal a second time and seeing it was frustrating me enough, right? But for me, I had to experience more pain. It's like, no, more pain, no, more pain, more pain. And it's like, you're going to eventually have to move. You're going to see your business be more volatile. You're going to see, you know, every speaker is listening right now. If you're even aspiring, right? I guess right now you're probably thinking to yourself, how in the world? Is this the worst time to want to be a speaker in all of mankind? Right? And the key thing about it is no, but the reality is if you were only going to rely on stages anyway, in person, you already have a very vulnerable business because you can get sick. Just that alone. Your kids can get sick. Your spouse can get sick. You could have, you mean, you could just not be able to travel and that kill your business. Well, planes get delayed, right? I mean, like, like, if your, if your entire business model is predicated on everything going perfectly in your personal life, you probably have a model that's too vulnerable. And that's why I tell people all the time, so a big part of what we're saying, we have to diversify. So start selling something. Create something. You want to make an ebook, charge for $19, $10, $7, like, get used to talking about it because it's a big deal for sustainability, but also it helps your, helps your audience understand that I'm not gonna be a free—

I'm not a charity.

And I do think there's something to be said about psychologically, as Sally alluded to a moment ago, that you alluded to this idea that I can't assume everyone's gonna be comfortable just staying back. And hanging out while I turn this corner and start selling. So pitch them early. Just get them used to hearing a pitch. Get them used to the fact that I will sell. You know, so, something I encourage you to do as well, but sell something, sell something, sell something.

Okay, you've dropped some really, really important tips. Create a laboratory for yourself, a place where you can be freer and experiment and have fun because you're gonna learn your voice and you're gonna learn what's working. Sell something. Sell something. Sell something. Ask yourself the questions, what now and what next? And that every solution has an inherent problem in it, which I think is a really brilliant way of thinking about how to solve serve your audience next. I think that's brilliant, brilliant. And then you said a bunch of other things too, but Kevin, we are— where are you? Amazing. Um, I think this episode is going to be really important for people because, um, you know, you've got some great tips in here, but also it's just a reminder of how, uh, important our particular voices are and what role we have to play in this world, and that it is a, it is a personal thing. And it's— we're not going to be able to impact people and have the kind of, uh, impact and give people the results that we want to help them get if we play small. And so stepping out front, building your personal brand Leveraging speaking in your business, uh, is—

takes courage.

It's not easy, but, uh, we can't play small anymore.

No, you cannot. And I hope this world— I hope this time of the year— I hope this year has proven that to you, that whatever you're doing, somebody needs your help, um, for sure. And I said, and you can do it in a way that produces a great life for you and your family, right? I'm in no way encouraging anybody to come here and just, you know, beat the— just pursue their dream kind of thing and not make it and they can live. But I think there's something to be said about that. And if people want more recipes, I'm sorry for letting them down. So if you have more questions, you can just text me, 615-455-3399. 615— 615-455-3399. You can text me on my cell phone and we can just continue the conversation. If you're like, hey, you added— if it was something specific you didn't— I didn't address, I totally get it. I'm happy to have that conversation with you one-on-one.

Well, I would— I mean, we could have talked for another 2 hours. That is incredibly generous of you, Kevin. I'm wondering, is there— I don't even know this. Do you have a website? You better have a website.

I do.

Yeah.

If you go to KevinBJennings.com, KevinBJennings.com.

And personal branding specialist, you got to have a website.

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm even trying to show you how you keep it simple. So just go to KevinBJennings.com and you can You can click a button and email me as well. Real simple, um, as a way for us to connect and, and, and work together on something if you like. Uh, but the key thing is, uh, what you have is valuable and no one should go without help, you know, and delivering help because they're unable to reach people that they want to help. Right. There's that, that's, that's what, that's what I'm trying to make sure we can remove today. So thank you so much, Sally. You know, I've benefited so greatly from you. I say I bratty in the very beginning of this and I'll keep doing it. This, your work and your encouragement one-on-one, but also the course, the Signature Talk Studio course really has been big for me. Because once again, I felt all over the place, like, you know, podcasting and blogging, what do I talk about? It's like, no, no, here's Kevin, here's how we tie this up. Here's how we organize this. And it's been big for me as a human being to know what's really been driving me and what, and what, what, what that passion, right? The real passion, you know, by, you know, the thing I'm willing to die for, I think has been big, been big to discover in this time, in this process.

Awesome. Well, you are brilliant, my friend. I'm so grateful for our connection. I'm so grateful you took a risk and took a leap and joined me in the Signature Talk Studio. And I'm really honored that I earned your trust on that. And so excited about where you're going, and then I get to be a part of your journey is pretty awesome.

Well, you're very kind. Everybody, get Sally as your coach. Don't make it— don't be silly. Stop wasting your— just do it. Just do it right now. What are you doing? What are you doing right now? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing with yourself right now? Come on. Uh, no, sincerely, thank you again for letting me on this podcast. Um, big fan of everybody who's listening as well, right? We're all in this together.

Well, very soon we are going to be doing, uh, an STS showcase where some of my speakers are going to be sharing their talks and Kevin is going to be one of them. Now Kevin's brand new baby is also due on the exact same day. So I don't, I don't think we might, we might not have Kevin live. But we will have Kevin in some capacity on that.

That's right.

Um, you promised.

That's right. That's right. Or I'll be hopped on Red Bull with bags under my eyes, but I will be bringing the energy. Uh, and so yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity. And truly, truly, truly, truly, I can go for a long time, but I'm already way long. So everybody, I'm done talking.

I promise.

I'll let her end this podcast.

Important. The baby's more important. I will say that. The baby's more important. But I really am excited to share your voice with everybody and your message.

Oh, thank you.