Permission To... Change the Plan, with Ashley Garner

They say fortune favors the bold. So what are you waiting for? The right time? The right sign? The right guide? The thing is, Movement Maker, you were never meant to follow anyone else. You were destined for something bolder and braver and truer, and you know it. It's time for you to write your own damn permission slip. You have permission to dream big. Not that you need it from us. Fortune favors the bold. So what are you waiting for?

Yeah!

Oh, and you know what? Here we go. Wait, this right here. Oh my gosh.

All right.

All right. Welcome, Ashley Garner. Welcome. Welcome.

Yay.

Yes, I am. I told somebody the other day I used to have moves, but now I just have fun. Really so much you can do in a—

I actually really appreciate that reframe, Erica Biddix. I appreciate it very much because Dancing should be that thing where you're not worried about the moves, you're just like experiencing it and enjoying it and getting in the body. And so I support that.

As somebody who danced for like 22 years, like almost every day of the week, um, the lack of moves that I have is very alarming. You are an actual dancer.

Erica and I just go to weddings.

Yeah, true.

You're an actual dancer.

I mean, I also used to be in the club a lot, but it's fine.

Well, that definitely takes wedding up a notch, and I appreciate that.

All right, welcome to our guest today, folks. We've got Ashley Garner here. She is the owner of Nest, and I'll let her explain what that is momentarily. But if you were at Permission Slip Conference 23, you actually saw her work all over the room because she did all of those beautiful vignettes on all of the tables. So a collector of brass and a creator of beautiful candles, and also my sister-in-law.

So, and also, p.s., here we are.

So Ashley, why don't you, before we get into questions, why don't you explain, um, what Nest, what Nest is? And then we'll get to how you, how you created Nest. But just first of all, what is Nest?

Yeah, so Nest is a, a renovation business, and I focus a lot on client customs. So, you know, you come to me with like your grandma's bedroom set and say, hey, I want it to look like this.

Cool.

Um, I also do a lot of just flips on my own, and I also, like Erica said, or Sally, I don't remember who said it, but I I love brass, especially mid-century brass. Um, I love a good treasure, a good tchotchke in there. Um, and then I also do event design and staging. So the event design was what I did for Permission Slip.

Yeah, it was so beautiful. So, so beautiful.

It was, uh, it was just exactly, exactly what we wanted. Um, and actually I've got at least one Nest piece right here. That key, yeah, that actually is straight from Permission Slip from like table number 12.

I got that table 12, Erica. I love that. Yeah, that's amazing.

So Ashley and I have known each other for several years, and I was actually around when she created NEST initially. And the title of today is Permission to Change the Plan. So why don't we talk, why don't we start with, because I think I mean, I can name 10 places where you've changed, changed the plan, but let's talk about what plan change it was that led to Nest even being created, um, initially, whatever of that you're comfortable sharing.

Yeah, so I was a stay-at-home mom. I was married to my ex-husband, and my kids were 8, 6, and 1 at the time, um, and we had been married for a few years and been in a relationship for several years before that, and it was just getting more and more abusive and dangerous. And I remember my attorney saying, you know, any person that in a fit of rage can put their hand around your neck, even with like no pressure or no like choking that will escalate and he will eventually kill you. And so if you don't leave, he will kill you. And so I hadn't worked in, I don't know, outside the home in like 4 or 5 years at that point. I had no job, I had no money. He controlled all of the finances. Um, I didn't get any money from him. Um, my name wasn't even I came to find out, like, on our house or anything. So, um, there was a situation in early March of 2018 where things got really, really out of hand, and my oldest was home to see it all unfurl. And I just— I was— I had Finn, my youngest, who was like 1 at the time, in my arms, and just remember running upstairs and like kicking my ex-husband off me from behind and just throwing Finn to his brother and saying, go in your room and lock the door. I don't care what you hear, what you think you see, anything. You get in there with this baby and do not come out again until I am the one on the other side of the door telling you to unlock the door. And just seeing my, my child, who I was supposed to protect and who was looking at, you know, not only his father but his stepfather as how you should be, how you should treat a woman, how a marriage should look. Looking at him and just in this state of absolute panic and fear was like, okay, I'm done. And so I, I was lucky enough that I, I did have a little bit of money that was coming to me from my grandparents' estate, and my mom had that for me in an account that we couldn't— nobody could like find or access. And so I took that money and I hired an attorney and I, um, found a place to rent. And my ex-husband went to work one day and the house just looked like a regular house. And about an hour after he left, a moving truck pulled in and my mom and I packed the little stuff while he packed— or while the movers packed the big stuff.. And then I, um, told my attorney like, hey, I'm out, I'm done, um, you can serve him. And that was that. And so the, the question, you know, from my family and from my friends at the time was like, okay, well, what are you gonna do? And I had started flipping furniture just for like fun money because he didn't give me any, um, and so, you know, like to take the kids somewhere fun or to, you know, buy treats for us. And so I just said, well, I guess I'll just do that. And people kept saying, right, that's cool, but like, for your job, what are you gonna do? And I was like, no, that is the, the job I'm gonna do because I have a bachelor's degree, but it's a musical theater degree. Um, so unless I want to perform or go back and get a master's and teach, it's not really a degree that's like that applicable to, I don't know, life. Um, so I was like, no, I mean, this is it, you know. There's nothing— as the, the primary parent of 3 baby kids, there was nothing that I could do to, to be there for them, to do the pickup and the drop-off and all that, and, and then to also make money.

So Entrepreneurship really came to you as a necessity, not planned. I know for a fact at no point did you enter the 2020s thinking, oh, or the 2010s thinking, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship kind of happened to you. And so when you got started, you were doing tables and then there was kind of a shift in the business. When COVID happened. So what did that look like from an entrepreneurial standpoint?

So right before COVID had happened, like, I, I was doing any job, every job. I had Nest, but I also was like working for a house cleaning company, and I was like dog sitting and doing all these little side jobs so that I could make it all make sense and, and, you know, pay the bills and all that. And when COVID hit, I thought, you know, oh my gosh, like, this is, this is the end, you know. Nobody is going to care about furniture when everybody's getting laid off, everybody's stuck in their house. But what actually happened was, um, people were stuck in their houses and the money that they would spend like on a car, on vacation, or on whatever they started pouring that into their houses. And so I transitioned Nest from furniture primarily to repainting kitchen cabinets. Um, and it just, you know, with one kitchen, then came four kitchens, then came like 10 kitchens. And then it was like, okay, I'm running 1 to 2 kitchens a week and I hate my job. I hate my life, and I really— I like, I cannot do another kitchen. Um, like, I was like dead in the middle of one and was like, I, I can't, I can't finish.

Like, you were making like crazy money. Yeah, at that point. Yeah, I mean, like, you were the go-to cabinet person. You just were always in somebody's kitchen, always with a paintbrush. In your hand. So what I know to be true is you went from like, I'm gonna like try to figure out how to make money doing this and like cobble together everywhere, to all of a sudden like, woohoo, success! But also, what, what was it that came with, with that success? Yeah, air quotes.

Yeah, it was like, I can take my kids and I on a 2-week beach vacation and like pay for everything, and my mom's gonna come with us, and you know, I'm paying for like these fun like extra things. But then it was like laying on the beach, you know, scheduling things out and moving people around and like trying to figure out, okay, as soon as we get back, if I can, you know, if we get back on a Tuesday, then Wednesday morning I can start in so-and-so's kitchen and be done by Thursday. And then I can go ahead and take so-and-so's kitchen apart Thursday evening. And then Friday be in their kitchen. And it's like, some people can work at that capacity, and some people like to work at that capacity. I am not one of those people.

Which you, which you found out, right? Yeah. I think you thought you could be that person.

Oh yeah, yeah. And it was like, well, and like, everybody's kitchens like started here, like, wow, this is a really great job. And it was like, This is a— geez. Okay.

So at this point you have accidentally become an entrepreneur.

Uh-huh. You have, um, and a very successful entrepreneur, right?

A very successful one doing something that you really just don't enjoy. There's a lot of other story in there. Um, and so I'm going to circle back to the permission piece, but all of that said, where, where do you stand today? On, like, today, if you had to tell somebody what Nest was doing, what is it just today? I know you told us what Nest was, but like, what pieces of entrepreneurship are you doing today with Nest?

So I am not doing cabinets with Nest. I will occasionally do a kitchen, and it's very like, okay, you don't seem like a lunatic person, um, you— your kitchen is like a smaller kitchen that seems manageable, or it's like a vanity in like a butler's pantry situation. It's not like we have this hulking kitchen space that's going to take you weeks and weeks. I do not do that anymore. I do a lot of my own flips, um, and I do commissions, but what I recently really started to get in was I had my— I think we're up to 4 now— my 4th brick and mortar fall through, um, in like early March. And I just really sat with that for a little while and was like, okay, what does— like, I obviously, for whatever reason, the universe is like you're not going to have your own store, but what can you do that feels like that and that gets your stuff out? Um, and that's not you going to all these mop— pop-ups and markets and these things, because I don't know if you guys have like felt brass lately, but it's heavy, playing like feathers and paper.. And so loading up everything and putting it in the car and schlepping it out and like market season was not great last year all across the board for makers. So that was not appealing to me either. So what I thought was, you know, I'm not a typical business in that most people that retail or wholesale right? You've got 10 greeting cards and you can print 100 of each card, and now you're wholesaling those and you're putting those in stores, whatever. What I can do is say, hey, your store is focused on this, or you want this because this product line feels like it's missing, or you don't have enough of it, or you have this already and you think this would complement that. So I can either come in as a retail partner for you or a wholesale partner for you, and you can tell me, you know, your vibe, your budget, and I can put together like a wholesale grouping for you, give you, you know, what I would say is, is standard retail on it, and then send it to you. Or we can do some kind of partnership, not where I'm like a vendor in, you know, like a booth situation, but where I am an integrated part of your store with my own SKU lines, my own price tags, I set my own prices, and then you run that through your POS and, and we go from there. So that was in March that that all kind of fell through. And as of now, I've got— I have 2 wholesale partners and then 3 or 4 retail partners. So I, I really— and then I've got a— we're calling it a permanent pop-up. Um, I'm actually going into another brick and mortar and kind of halving that space with her from now until early fall, if not beyond that.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah, go for it.

Oh yeah, sorry. Okay, I just wanted to ask a question specific to the role that your accessories— and I don't know if that's the right word for it, but, you know, um, decor. You said tchotchkes, decor. Like, it's, it's stuff, but it plays a really important role. And I would love to hear from your perspective as somebody who has lived in that space and crafts and curates those— what are the right things for the right space? Like, if you were to ask people, why does this matter when you're pulling stuff together for an event? What is the role that those things play in helping create the experience for people?

Yeah, so I'm really lucky in that, um, September or so of last year, someone approached me and said, hey, I've got this warehouse and I have a tiny corner of it that's not being used. Do you want to put your stuff in here? Because I was trying to start staging and trying to start design, but I didn't have anywhere to put it. So it was like, I would love to, to do this for you, but we've got to do it in the next, like, week because I got to get this crap out of my house. Um, and so now I have a space for these things to kind of live, and I can buy things and curate things with the intention of the event and the individuals that are asking me to do the event versus just, here's what I have, if you like it, great, and if not, then I'm not the one for you. Um, so now I can say, you know, okay, what are your colors? What are your What's the vibe of this? Like, do you want it to be more like boho and funky, or are you wanting more of like an upscale, classy look? What is— what's the vibe? What's the event? What things do you hate? What things do you love? Um, a lot of my stuff is, is older. A lot, pretty much 90% of my stuff is an antique or a vintage thing, and, and with that comes the nostalgia of, oh my gosh, my grandma had that sugar bowl and now you put a candle in it, that's so cool. Or we had that brass duck in our entryway when I was a little kid. So I think the, the really exciting thing for me has been having all these things to begin with and then getting to share them in ways that aren't just like, hi, would you like to buy this thing? And would you like to buy it quickly because I don't have space for it? Like, now I can use all these things to get other people's vision across too.

Yeah, yeah, it's a really smart model because you've got the things and you're using the things at the same time, so you can sell them in the space. I mean, we— that was part of what we did last year at PSC. Is you had, you'd done all these beautiful setups on the tables and you helped set up the stage. And, but people are looking and admiring what's on the table and it's like, oh, pick it up and you can purchase it if you want. So I just feel like it was really cool win-win. Like we're always wanting to highlight local creative entrepreneurs and makers. And so it was really fun to be able to do that. And, um, and so beautiful at the same time. And I love the, I love the business model. It's just super smart.

Well, and I would love to chat just a little bit, Ashley, about, um, however many years in you are now, 5 or 6. You are, um, 6. So you are super involved with the maker community here in Knoxville. So what does that look like, not just from an entrepreneurial standpoint, but really a place where you're able to pour your time and talents and your resources into? What does that look like as an add-on piece to your business where you're doing it pro bono also?

Yeah, so I think it was like, was it like 2020 or early '21 when it came to you, Erica, and was like, um, hey, your brother's trying to tell me how to run my business and it makes me want to choke him, so tell me how to run your business because I would like to continue to love him. And it's just—

we just— you just have to see our faces laughing because I was like, it's Erica's brother, I love that.

So anywho, um, and so I met with her and did like a really, really quick, like, baby coaching session of like, here's what you need to do moving forward and here's the people that I can introduce you to moving forward to make that happen. And one of the connects was somebody who knew somebody at the Maker City. The Maker City is basically a, just a very big resource guide for small businesses, makers, entrepreneurs in Knoxville and surrounding counties. We are housed in the Knoxville Entrepreneur Center, which is in Market Square, like our little downtown area. And we get funding from the city and also through KEC. So I immediately was like, okay, so it's just a bunch of people like helping people. That sounds great. I need much help. Let's go. And from, I think it was 2021 until now, I really, really just latched on to these people and learned from them. And, you know, it really is, it feels like my people. And I think we all have those, those little tribes everywhere. But the Maker City arm is really, really strong and broad in Knoxville, and it really has a lot of people kind of under its umbrella. And so with them, I've been able to sit on like events planning just as a whole, and then also kind of distill that down into the, the Maker City Summit and summit planning. And, you know, I, I really try to think back on what I wish people would have told me as a, a starting out maker. And then I also try to think you know, if I, if I wasn't doing this, if I was doing, you know, pottery or macramé or, you know, artists like painting, but like on a, you know, you don't want me to paint your picture. Um, what, what would I find helpful? And I, I've been lucky enough to get to have a seat at the table and get to lead a lot of those conversations. Um, and it's just, I think a lot of times it's hard because like I work alone and I live alone with my kids. And, you know, it's like I, I don't get a lot of, I don't know, gratification, I guess, from what I do in the day-to-day because it's like 'Look, internet, I did this thing. Do you like it?' Um, but with the Maker City, like, not only do I get to use my skill set to be helpful, but then I get to see people enjoying the programming and talking about the programming and coming to the summit. And it's just such like a— I don't know, it's so cheesy, but it's like such a bucket filler.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think also the I mean, just to speak for the Maker City as a recipient of what they're offering, it really is showing that being a maker is a viable option for entrepreneurship too, because I would argue pre-pandemic most people would have thought of maker items or the piece of the business that was a maker business as a side gig or as a side hustle. And I think Knoxville specifically, and courtesy of KEC and the Maker City Summit and Maker City organization have really shown that it's a viable and should be a viable business model.

That's kind of like their, their tagline on everything is, you know, make a living doing what you love.

Yeah.

And that's— it's kind of a pain point because Knoxville is changing and it is evolving into a bigger city, but it still is, you know, it wants to be an Atlanta or a Nashville or a Dallas, but it's not paying as an Atlanta or a Nashville or a Dallas. And we don't have the infrastructure yet to support that in a lot of areas. And so that has really been a focus this year, um, after getting results from the summit last year that the, you know, the average income of the people who came to the summit and who identified themselves as full-time makers in Knoxville was about $50,000 a year. And, you know, that's just not— that's not sustainable. That you can't— unfortunately, you can't live here if that is your only income. Um, and so that was really eye-opening for us as the people who get to say, okay, here's the programming, here's what we need to focus on. And so now we've really shifted a lot of focus too into, okay, how do we make this a more equitable division between the people who are holding all the purse strings and with the capital and How do we get in there and say, look, we are the people who made the city cool. We're the people who are bringing the vibe and the atmosphere that all these people want to come in, but like, we can't afford it here. So if you guys keep on doing all these things and, you know, a, a 2,000 square feet commercial space is renting, you in like the downtown areas for anywhere between like $4,000 to $6,000. Like, we can't do that. So you're going to push us all out. And so that's really been kind of a laser focus for us this year is how do we get in these rooms? How do we get in with architects and developers and say, here, not only is like the, oh, this makes my heart feel good, like we've helped the weird artists, yay. Um, like, what is the economic, like, impact if you help the makers and you value the makers? What is the economic impact not only for you as the person who has developed this, but in the community as a whole? So that's been a really interesting kind of project to, to get on the other side of.

And I think it's actually for those of you again that were there last year when Kelsey talked about it similarly from a musician standpoint, it's the same work that Kelsey is doing. So, and others, not just Kelsey, but she spoke to it pretty clearly too. So we're really excited that with the conference, and I encourage this to others in whatever it is that they're doing with their business, that they look to see what piece of their business already exists where they can support those types of non-traditional small businesses or local businesses, recognizing that they are businesses too. So we like to utilize the conference. We, we really enjoyed being able to do that last year with the music piece. And this year we're really excited to be having a maker area so that local makers can come in and sell their goods. As well and get those, get those names and those websites and those Instagram handles out to a community that's wider than just Knoxville. So it's being on the ground here, I feel very passionate about that, and I'm lucky that Sally is the co-producer and our attendees and our speakers have all really supported, uh, yeah, ideas too.

So Well, it's, it's one of the things that makes Knoxville special. And so, you know, it was like, we're going to be in Knoxville, we've got to lean into the spirit of— and the entrepreneurial spirit of Knoxville. And not everybody in Knoxville, not all the entrepreneurs are makers, but many, many are. And so that's part of what makes it special and awesome and the feeling that you get there. So we want to just amplify that even more this coming year. So we're really jazzed about it.

I would want to walk around and be like, and then this person this, and then this person this, and then this. Okay, so I haven't asked any questions with the word permission, so it's fine. I'll get a rating as a host later. But I think what we've seen with you is a plan, and then you've changed it, and then a plan, and then you've changed it. And then as recently as 4 months ago, you were literally like gathering materials to move into a brick and mortar, and then it just overnight didn't happen. Um, what— where in there does permission play a part? Um, and I'm going to give you a bit of a leading question here because, um, I want you to, to, to talk about this. Um, you have— you were for a long time very open about moving into a brick and mortar, and then you kind of got a little shy talking about it because of the things that fell through. With this last one, you were pretty open about the disappointment with it. So I think there's been permission in the way that you've talked about it too. But how has permission played a role— giving yourself permission— played a role in kind of all of these changes, or how you're outwardly speaking about it to, you know, the world?

I think, um, a lot of the I think it helps as just a human to think about the fact that like nobody is thinking about you as much as you're thinking about you. And so being able to be like, hey, I was going to do this thing and now I'm not. To me, it feels like this, like, oh my God, everybody's going to think that I'm this and that and oh no, what am I going to do? But to the public at large or, you know, the public at Instagram or whatever, it's like Oh, that sucks. Anyway, so it's like reframing that, like, okay, you know, nobody's really thinking about me all that much. Um, that's been very helpful. And then I think just giving myself permission to see I'm not real great at like long game. I am an only child, and I'm like, I, I want it now. I want to see it with my eyeballs, and I want it now. In fact, I want it yesterday. Like, I am Veruca Salt. Come on. And so living in that headspace is not great, turns out, and it's not like conducive to being an entrepreneur because your business goes like, we all the time. So there's no like real, for most people, like linear upward, this is nice and neat and tidy on a graph way to be an entrepreneur. Um, and so for me it's been giving myself permission to be like, okay, You can be a lunatic maniac person and live in this like right now space, or, or you can look long-term and long game and think, you know, 6 years ago you were saying, I wish that I could have a business and I wish that I could have my own house and where nobody was like in it like yelling and screaming at me all the time and where I can get up in the morning and take my kids to school and, you know, put the dog in the car and go do my errands or whatever and then come home and, you know, there's somebody there that loves me and doesn't just love me because like I'm pretty and I can say the right things and I look really great in a nice dress. Let's go to this event. Like, but loves me instead for like all of me, even the parts that are gross. And you know, when I think back to that, then like, I have done it all. I have done the things that I set out to do 6 years ago. You know, I have set out to to change my life and to change my kids' lives. And, you know, I've done that. And I think the biggest thing for me is like, I remember that feeling when we moved into the first house that we had right after I— like, the night that I left my ex-husband.. And I just remember thinking, like, nobody is going to come in here. I don't have to lock my bedroom door because somebody's gonna, like, wake me up and start screaming at me. Like, nobody is going to be in this house, like, making me feel unsafe, and nobody's ever going to do that to me again. And so giving myself the permission to, you know, I'm not like Joanna Gaines, and I'm not, you know, a gazillionaire, and I'm not on the Kelly Clarkson Show like talking about my latest whatever. But like, I've built a nice life, and I do things that matter, I think, to me and to my community. And so when it's like, well, so-and-so just did this and sucks. I didn't do that. It's like, but you've done a whole lot.

Yeah.

So I think just giving yourself permission to like look at things in that lens.

Beautiful. And I just want to offer a wholehearted hell yes to what you just said, Ashley. And it's really important to just pause and take that in. Because it was your, your entrepreneurial business was your way out. And that is no small thing. And I, I don't, I don't understand because I, I haven't lived that, the, the kind of courage and risk it takes and just bravery to go into this unknown place for yourself. And for your kids. Um, but I recognize the power of it and, and your courage in doing it. So I just want to like stop and pause that. And so whatever else hasn't happened yet, like, that is something you should feel so, so proud of for yourself and for your kids. And I know you do, but I just have to be like, we gotta underline that. This is really incredible.

Thank you.

Yeah, so, um, I'll ask the last question, Ashley. Um, which is—

loves a Zoom meeting, he's coming on.

Um, uh, what is the— what— I never even said the question right. My host— my hosting skills are not up to par with, uh, Sally.

Erica just got done with an intent. Yeah, you just graduated a human from middle school. I feel like that is your opt-out for the whole week.

Don't worry.

Okay, great.

I'll take it. Okay. But the last question is, what are you currently giving yourself permission for? Or what is your next big permission slip? What is the latest one you've written yourself, or what is the next one on the horizon?

I think that the big one is just permission to look at the big picture because I'm not great at that. So that's the one I think, the one that I've written to myself lately. And for the future, um, I'm really working hard at giving myself permission to stop being such a negative sack of crap all the time. Like, I mean, seriously, I am like, like, not only like my brain is wired to like, not only is my glass half empty, but like, why are you I'm like, it wasn't even that great of a glass in the first place. Like, I am so— like, I am an absolute fatalist. I can see 12,000 horrible things in every situation. And another one of my good friends is like, well, I don't let myself think negative thoughts. And I was like, okay. And then the more that I thought about that, And the more that I thought about like all the things that she's done in the last like 6 to 8 months as she really started embracing that, um, I'm like, holy crap, maybe you're onto something. Like maybe I shouldn't be such a sack of crap all the time.

So permission to look at the positive.

Yeah. Permission to, to look on the bright side and to think like, you know, it, it might not work out like exactly like you wanted, but it's probably going to be pretty okay in the end. You just have to stop being like the sad rain cloud the whole time.

I think that's great. That's very— that's— I love the different variations we get on that, Sally Koering Zimney. Yeah, it's like when the hat maker asks what's saving your life and like the range of answers is this big. Um, I feel like you get the same thing. Um, yeah, on permission. Thank you for joining us. Um, where can people find you if they want to follow along or buy some treasure? Or where can they— where can they find you?

Um, my Instagram is the place that I'm most active. All of my stuff goes to Instagram first and then kind of filters out where it may. Um, and my Instagram is just Best Nest Home. Um, and then I've got a personal Instagram. If you'd search my name, you'll find it. Um, and that's under Lola Diet Cola because I love a Diet Coke.

Um, and we can also find you at PermissionSlip24. You can, yeah, she'll be doing, um, she'll be doing decor and stage stuff for us again and also set up um, in the maker area. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, go check out her Etsy shop, check out her Instagram, it's linked in her Instagram bio, and get yourself something. Get yourself something nice, Clark.

Get yourself something to have.

Yeah.

All right, thank you, Ashley.

Thank you, Ashley.

Now wait, hold on, Ashley, it's our way out because get some moves ready. There's a way out. Are you ready? Are you ready? Here we go. Alright everybody, great seeing you. Thanks for being here. See you all soon.