In this podcast episode, Sally Koering Zimney walks listeners through Chapter 14 of her book Speaking Story, titled “To Hell with Facts.” She argues that facts and statistics, while important, rarely persuade on their own because audiences tend to choose safety over emotional vulnerability when presented with raw data. Zimney explains that pairing facts with human‑centered stories creates emotional meaning, making the information memorable and compelling. She illustrates this with a World Vision statistic—689 million people living in extreme poverty—and the personal story of an 8‑year‑old girl named Teresa, showing how the narrative transforms an abstract number into a relatable, moving picture. Throughout the episode she emphasizes moving from pure logical appeal (logos) to a blend of logical and emotional appeal (pathos) for effective leadership communication. The episode also includes promotional mentions of her Unspeaker Simple Storytelling audio course and the Be Moved Institute, inviting listeners to deepen their storytelling skills.
Chapters
Oh my gosh. I just recorded a whole thing without pressing record. Okay. Awesome. Okay. I have to laugh because most of the time as you are moving through this book— hello and welcome back to This Moves Me, where we're walking through the book Speaking Story written by me, Sally Koering Zimney, and I'm so delighted that you're here. P.S., if you want the ad-free version, you can always go grab it over on Audible. But here on your podcast feed or on YouTube, we are just adding a little context to this. And I think it's kind of fun. You're getting an additional perspective, additional point of view, additional context as we move through this step by step. But what's cracking me up is the chapters themselves are short. I like short chapters. If you've, if you've read the book, And as you listen to the book, you might notice that I write the way I speak. I am a speaker. I love writing, and I love the power of great writing, but most of the time, when I know that something is going to be heard, I write for the audible experience rather than the written form. So that's why these chapters are so, so short. And I love them. I love it. I love it. And here we are in part 3, and we're on chapter 14, and it's titled "To Hell with Facts." To hell with facts. Oh my gosh. I'm— I actually don't have any problem with facts. I think they're important, and obviously, ugh, like actual facts, people, not BS. That is a diatribe for another time. But we tend to think that the facts can carry the weight of our argument, that if we just find the right fact, then people will be convinced. But that is not borne out in the research. And I bet if you think for yourself in the moments where you have been moved It had— the fact may help push something over the edge or confirm something that you're feeling, but facts themselves are not doing what most of us think they're doing. So when we lead with data and we hide behind statistics, what most of the time people are actually choosing is they're choosing safety over vulnerability and connection. Over the risk of the emotional connection that we need if we're really gonna persuade and move people. So in this chapter, I wanna talk about what that's costing you and what to do instead. All right, let's do this. Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. This complimentary listening of this speaking story audiobook is brought to you in part by the Be Moved Institute, or as I lovingly refer to it, Be Me. Leadership almost always comes with a microphone, movers. Whether that's a meeting, a presentation, a tough conversation, a keynote conference opportunity that you have. I mean, even if you would never call yourself a speaker or a storyteller, you are one. You just might not have the tools that you need yet, or the support that you need yet. And that's why I created the Unspeaker: Simple Storytelling audio course. It's like having me right alongside you on your walk or in the car on your commute, and it guides you through simple, powerful exercises to find the leadership stories that are already inside you and that will move your people. It's $49, but it's truly priceless, and I'm really excited to give you the opportunity to come join me over there. All you have to do is head to sally-koering-zimney.com/unspeaker to get started. And while you're there, join the waitlist for the Be Moved Institute, an incredible 2-day experience where we are giving corporate leaders the tools to present with power and clarity and authenticity and support. Now, let's get into the chapter. Chapter 14: To Hell with Facts. "To hell with facts, we need stories." Ken Kesey. I realize you may be thinking, "So, ho, what about facts, Sally? Surely you're not saying that facts don't matter." Listen, facts are important, but they are not as persuasive as we think they are. However, when coupled with stories, they can be not only powerful, but also beautiful. When you think about stats that have had an impact on you, what was probably true about that statistic was that underneath it was some emotion. If it connected with you, there was a sense of how it impacted humanity and human beings behind the stats. Essentially, that's what stories do. Let's take this example: According to World Vision, 689 million people live in extreme poverty—in other words, on less than $1.90 a day. That number—689 million—is an overwhelming stat. It doesn't sound good. You know it's bad in the most generic sense, but it's hard to make that stat meaningful. How many is 1 million, let alone 689 million? However, if you told me the story of Teresa, an 8-year-old who's living in poverty, that number now has a name, maybe a face. And as I learn more about Teresa, I can start to visualize her. She's struggling with school because she comes home hungry every day and is busy taking care of her siblings. Her future opportunities are bleak if she can't go to school, but she doesn't have a lot of choices because she's an 8-year-old girl in an impossible situation that she has very little control over. I'm starting to get a glimpse of Teresa's life. I have a sense of her story, her challenges, and I'm connecting with her in an emotive way. Now, when I hear that there are 689 million people who are living like Theresa, that stat has more significance. It has meaning. I understand what it means even more. I know what's at stake, the harm that it's causing, and why it matters. I still can't totally grasp the number 689 million other than it's a lot, but now I know how harmful even one person with that story is. Stories help enlighten, stats. They make facts meaningful and personal, which then makes those facts powerful. As Luigi Pirandello once said, "A fact is like a sack. It won't stand up if it's empty. To make it stand up, first you have to put in all the reasons and feelings that caused it in the first place." People are tired of information, even overwhelmed by it. There's so much of it out there. Without a story, we aren't sure what that information means. Stats and data alone don't do the trick. So if you're stuck in the realm of logos, it's time to come into the realm of pathos. When we combine these two appeals, they are incredibly powerful together. So now we know that stories are all around us if we have the eyes and time and space to see them. We also know that stories need to be emotively driven and to look beyond the logical appeal. And finally, we know that behind every fact is a story. That's the end of this chapter of Speaking Story. If you want to keep listening ad-free, you can find the full audiobook on Audible. Or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. And if this chapter stirred something in you, if it, shall we say, moved you, let me suggest that you start with the Unspeaker Simple Storytelling Audio Mini Course at sally-zimney.com/unspeaker. All right, movers. This moved me. What is moving you? See you next time.
