Working with a Mentor

Welcome to Accountants Law Pod, where accounting professionals and law firms converge, hosted by Linda Artesani, Sarah Prevost, and Stephen Libhart. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. And this week we have an interesting topic, and I think it's one that if you're working alone and you have been trying to go it by yourself without any help. One that we found very beneficial, I think, really, for— I can speak for myself personally. Well, for me personally is huge because I ended up meeting Sarah through this mentor. But I think that if you have never considered one, it's a good idea. So it's talking about mentoring people in getting mentored. So I'll toss it to Sarah. So we pick on Steve. So I'll toss it to Sarah first to say what she thinks about mentoring and being mentored.

You know, honestly, there's formal, formal, uh, ways to do it, but really in a kind of informal way, if you look at it through another lens, there are people that are guiding you along the way if you're ready to hear the information. And I've always felt like Seth was my— followed him for years. He was just I don't know, just the way that he constructed the data, the way that he spoke, it just built some sort of deep confidence in myself. And I don't know that he knew the impact at its magnitude at the time. But, and then when he really just, he really honestly is such a caring individual. So he really took me under his wing in a way that was very supportive. And I always made sure I never took advantage of that moment, of any of those moments. I, I was always in celebration of him and support of him and anything that he did, and vice versa. But he really— he's why I'm where I sit today. He's why we're partners. He's a big reason that fostered this, honestly, this confidence that I have built through the years. And it's, it's a, it's a skill that you build. It's not an ego skill. It's not a controlling skill. It's a skill that you build because it's, it's about what you feel your self-worth is for you. And so mentoring has so many different, uh, spectrums, I guess, or, or layers to it. And to me, he was my— he really was my guiding person in my life that really helped me. And I, I don't— I know he knows it, but I don't know the impact at the level that it feels like, the great— the Debt of gratitude that's deep inside for that. And I know, Steve, I know for Linda and I, it's changed our entire outlook together. We have each other. We have a completely new outlook. It's been amazing. It's an amazing ride. I'm so— that gratitude for that. But Steve has a very similar story, I feel like, Linda, as well. Like, he's—

A little different because he actually got mentored where he was working, right, Steve?

Yeah. Yeah. And good morning, ladies. It's so nice to see you again.

Good morning.

Way back in 1975 when— what's that?

I said, you morning people.

Morning people. Way back in 1975 when I started working.

Can you go back that long?

That long.

1975? I was in high school.

Well, okay. I was 20 years old. I was—

I would never do that to anybody.

I was 20 years old, and a lady named Susan, who's still a dear friend of mine, took me under her wing. She was my first mentor. I've had 3 really cool mentors, and she was my first one. And she launched me on my career with the hotel company, and I got to live all over the United States and all these different cities, work in all these different properties. And she would guide me along, and she was, she was, she was like the strict mother I never had. I mean, she, she made me toe the line. You know, she used to make us— I never could understand this, but she would make us come in on Saturday mornings.

Oh, no.

And we would, we worked in the reservations department then and we had to sit and read magazines, but the, the managing partners would see us in the hotel working. We were there Saturdays and that was so important to her. And I never understood what that was about. Sarah, you will, because you came from the hotel industry.

I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, same company we worked for. So.

We did. We did. And then, um, when I first went to work in the, the man that hired me in the legal industry in the very first law firm, Um, in 2004 was my mentor for the last 20 years, and he just passed away in December, and I feel like I've lost my right arm. He just, you know, in the later years, which he didn't mentor me hardly at all because we had our routine down, he ended up becoming a client later on. But he taught me everything about everything in accounting in a law firm, and I will always be eternally grateful to him for that. You know, I remember the first day I'm like, well, what's a trust account? And he sat down with me. I mean, here was this attorney having to produce his work and he sat down with me and he's like, okay, this is this and this is that. And, and he held my hand all the way through it and taught me over many years how to be in the legal industry. And I'm, I'm forever, forever grateful to him for that.

And, um, his only bookkeeping accounting, were you the only person he had after that straight through? Yes.

Yes, you were.

Well spent, that time was, though.

Yes. And he's— he was an attorney, an attorney, a CPA, and an IRS enrolled agent. And he also was a colonel in the Army. And he knew— he knew how to lead people. Yeah, he knew. And I, you know, I learned patience from him. I learned listening from him. I learned how to have fun from him. You know, I can remember a Christmas party that we had Way back when, and he rented a limousine for all of us. And, you know, we had all been drinking and having fun and all that sort of stuff. And we got to the hotel and the limousine door opened and I fell out. And because I was leaning on the door, and he comes out and he rescues me and all that. And he's, he's been partying too much and his wife cut his tie off. And, you know, he taught us how to— she had scissors in her purse. Can you believe this?

But—

But he taught us, he taught us to be serious at work, but to also have fun. And he was just such a cool guy, and, and I will always be grateful to him. And then another mentor I had, my last one, was— he taught me a lot about— he just passed away a month ago. He, he taught me about, um, life.

Mm-hmm.

Taught me about acceptance. Taught me— he just— what a cool guy. What a cool guy. So I, I really place a lot of value in mentors. And trusting and listening. And it's, it's brought me to a place in my life where I get to mentor people now, and I really love doing that.

I don't know if you feel this way, but I've mentioned it earlier. To me, you have to be ready to want to receive that.

You have to be open.

Yeah, you have to want that and, and to be open in the space, like Your guiding lights through them may have not looked that way at the time. Well, when you reflect back, and that's what I think of, like, as you were talking in my mind, and I bet you Linda felt this way, you start to pick up the nuggets of those people that were those shining moments in your life. Because as you're talking, I'm like, oh, that's this person and that's that person. I mean, my biggest game changer obviously is to this one person I mentioned earlier. That was That, that has changed the trajectory of my life for the last 8, 9 years now. And, and on top of it, gave me a gift of a business partner that I absolutely adore. So.

Well, it's Seth too. I think when it comes to Seth, and I followed, secretly stalked Seth for many years, never joined his group, just hid in the background, listened to anything that he gave, put out. Right. And He did a lot of Fridays that were open and I probably was the camera-off kind of person. I remember with Seth, I think what resonated with me with Seth was he wasn't so regimented, teaching. He was really real. If he did something and it didn't work out, he was the first one to jump in and say, I did this and I made this mistake and I want you all to learn from the mistake I made.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Real, and I think that that's what made me want to kind of cling to him or anybody else because he always had. Remember we used to call it nuggets, and he got the biggest kick out of us all calling it. It's a Seth nugget because we would call it a Seth nugget because he would say something and we'd find it profound, and everybody's like, oh, it's a nugget. He thought it was so funny that he had his nuggets.

That just makes me because I chicken nuggets. No. Yeah, this morning when we heard that today, I was like, oh. I didn't. That's an honor to be in that space.

But he definitely, you know, if you're there for us, I mean, he was definitely the person that you knew, if you need him, which you probably had, Steve, you needed that person at any second, he would be like right there for you. That's the kind of mentor he is. He still is. I mean, he's 97 and up. Seth David, Chief Nerd. His content too, like if you become part of his group, you get access to all his content. New Bookkeeper. Oh, he's got methodology and his courses are really good. I mean, they're not very rich, that really good content that gives you everything you need, soup to nuts. So I think that that's something that you want to consider if you're trying to find somebody, you're just starting out. He's definitely somebody I would recommend.

Even if you're established and you need that new lens.

I was established when I finally surfaced. I was established, you know, and then you never know who you're going to meet in there. You might meet a Sarah. Can't have Sarah, but you might meet a Sarah. There's a lot of people in this group. But, I mean, we just connected, and that would have never happened if we hadn't both been in that group. I don't think we would. We probably would have met in similar circles, but I don't know if we would have met. I mean, we met a lot of good people inside of Seth's group at the time when we were kind of really active in the group. There was a bunch of us that were very, very close at one point in time.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we're all very close here as it is, and in our own communities. And I really feel like, Steve, the pieces that you just— the way that you described how valuable each person was at different moments in your life, I think is also a very true point for anyone. When you think about it, it just— the— I just keep going back to it because it's like that. Deep, enriched. If you may not feel open when you're hearing it, but if you take a quick second and realize, oh, I'm learning, I'm going to be able to grow with this information, or it's going— I'll just keep— let's see what happens next. Let's see what happens next. I feel like that road, it could— it feels less traveled lately, but I feel like it could be the most enriching and valuable.

If you can be open and coachable, and you know, it's really fun when you have a mentor. Or when you're mentoring someone is to have that safety of being able to challenge each other, because then the mentor knows if the message is coming across or not. That, that, that hit a big one, didn't it?

Yeah, we do that.

I, I think, and, you know, Steve, I could tell just by the way you described those people, they were, they touched your heart. They were—

They're in my heart forever.

Yeah.

And they etch themselves in your life, which is really—

I'm still closing out the books for the one who passed away a month ago. And when I go into the books, I'm just sad. You know, but, but I'm proud.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I feel that way about someone in my list that it, it's not— it was a journey into a new space that was very— I'm very excited for her and very happy for her, but it's the same thing. I'm like, oh, this might be the last year I'm working on it.

Oh.

Yeah.

So, well, in her life that have done that, I mean, I think back and when Steve was telling the story, I was thinking about Miss Sorbello, which was my 7th grade shorthand teacher.

Oh, my.

Shorthand, I love it. I can remember being in her class. And I can remember her— we all went in to learn shorthand. And then she started looking at the stuff that we were writing and realized really quickly that none of us knew how to punctuate. We didn't know grammar. And that whole class went out the door. And she completely focused on things that she felt were life skills that, for some reason, we made it all the way to 7th grade and never had. And that is why today I think my writing skills came out of her. She was a tough teacher, but I knew when she was teaching that it was important at the time. And then we did get into shorthand in like second half of the class, and I love that, which is a skill that you don't really use today.

Yeah.

So I loved it, but it was— she literally stopped her class, which I don't even know if you could do that today with teaching. How it's so involved with all the metrics. Yeah. I don't know if the way things are today, if you have that flexibility to pivot like that, but that was life-changing for me to be able to be a good writer. And because that might have got missed for some reason.

I joke about the things that you notice, but I love the things that you notice.

They make fun of me is what she's saying.

No, I'm like, wait, I wrote this email, but that's you noticed. And it's just a— it's really cute. But I— you're right, teachers— I mean, we've all had teachers. I think it's not that they're forgotten, but they are there. You hear it in a lot of the sports, the way people speak about the life-changing moments, the coach that helped them. And, and it is that moment. Some people pay for those professional people to be that for them. And I do ever feel like it's like it's not a problem to pay for it. But again, you may not be ready to receive it. So you're filling a void that you think you need. But it's not the answer exactly. You're, you're not, you're not in the headspace.

Yeah.

You think you need it because you have the status level, or you have— you want to jump to this business level or this personal level. But you're not mentally or timing available.

Yeah.

Yeah. To me, that's not complete mentoring when you have to pay for it. It's, you know, like, look at, look at the relationship the 3 of us have. You know, we're, we've, we've mentored each other in many ways. And yeah, this podcast and the Law Lab is a mentoring platform.

And it's paid, though. And the same with Seth's group. It's a paid mentorship group. But I think that even today, Coming out of the Law Lab, I'm sure there were people in there that did not understand the work we were talking about because we were on the data migration and we dove into what happens in a Clio data migration.

Right.

Yeah. That they may have picked up, if they walk away with, if I'm going to do one of these, I'm going to charge a lot, I'll go over and reach out to this group because they'll help me through it.

Right.

That's all we needed to tell them in that meeting.

Well, and you're—

We quiet because that—

You're writing, you know, the books that you've written. You're mentoring people, you know. And with attorney clients, when I go to the Bar Association and teach classes, to me, I'm giving back. You know, I'm giving back and I'm mentoring. And I've made so many wonderful friends that way.

Just the guest we had the other day. And yes, it was the hang your shingle thing that Steve did. I'll never forget. And he—

That was in 2010.

Yeah, you mentored him, though, because he remembers that. You never know when you're actually helping somebody that—

You never know.

You just don't. And, you know, we do a lot of mentoring with the Law Lab because we have a lot of people there, but they mentor us back sometimes. We learn from them. We get these golden nuggets out of the group, and that's the power of these groups. And I think that being a mentor, at first it seems odd when you've always been the receiver of mentorship. And then if you start to give back, it does feel a little funny, like someone's— You get a message, you really helped me. I'm like, you don't even realize the power of it, right? Until you get something back from somebody and it's like, oh my God, you don't know how much you helped me. I get that from you guys' messages on YouTube.

They'll say, you guys know that I owned a day spa for a while.

Yeah.

And it was an Aveda day spa. And the founder of Aveda took my partner and I up to Osceola, Wisconsin, and And he pampered us for a week at his spa. And he— we went to this, this mentorship program called The Business of Being. And it was all about how did— it was so cool. So cool.

Sounds nice.

And we, we brought a lot of that back into our business. And to your point, Linda, um, after we sold that day spa way back when, and like 5 or 6 years later, I ran into one of our former employees and she said, because of you, And Paul, who was my business partner, she said, I have a new car and I have a house.

Oh, wow.

And she said, I've wanted to thank you for years. I ran into her in a restaurant, and I didn't realize that we had made a difference like that. And it was like, that's a really humbling moment.

It is. That for sure is.

Well, this morning was humbling. I mean, to hear you say those words, Linda, here. Knowing that they were said in correlation of that's a Seth David moment, that's an honor. That, I mean, that, that emotion.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And, and to have impact on someone's life like that. So to your point, like, Linda, you're saying is you, you don't know. It goes both ways. It's the give and receive in those moments of gifts that they're, they're tiny little gifts that you don't know. They're not tangible. They're just power of community and network. And yeah, I mean, obviously we all 3 love to meet new people. We enjoy conversation, dialogue. But yeah, it's— I feel like if you're going to do this or be the participant in it, I think having a design of like a rigorous, like, what I want thing leaves you way too constrained to want to be able to open your mind to a potential of someone else walking through the door and being able to mentor you. And it's not even somebody you would ever have thought to have that power of your life, your impact in your life.

And we learn as we, as we move through life and through our business. We learn. I certainly know way more than I did when I started in 1999. I definitely do. And I think that It's just life things that happen. But like Seth used to share things that had happened that, or he would be working through, or software challenges or things that, that saved me from making the same mistakes because I paid attention. So I think sometimes we say things in meetings, or we're in the, the Law Lab, or we're on the Law Pod, and we just had that happen where somebody wrote on Facebook about how much you helped because they just starting in business, and something you said in that podcast. Touched that person.

Yes.

Because you said something about your business, and I think sometimes people see you sitting here, Sarah, they got this, this, this going on, and Steve's got this going on, and they don't know the person that went through the challenges that they went through. And those challenges are sometimes they're in the middle of it and they're living in it, and they don't realize that when they hear a story like that, Sarah had her challenges too way back when. And she rose above it or managed her way through it. And I can too. And because it can be overwhelming when you first start out in business, let's face it. There are days I can remember going, what the heck am I doing? And had a few of those this week.

Still true.

It's so true.

This year has been rough. And I think that it's just things that happen and you get through it. It's just like, oh, God. I just need time and space. Just need everybody leave me alone till I get this done. And it feels like, it feels like sometimes, and you're trying to, and I, Sarah and I talk about it because this happens on occasion with our business, that I feel like somebody tossed all the ping pong balls up in the air and I'm trying to catch them and organize them and I can't catch them all. And it's, you just feel so overwhelmed at times and you just have to take a breath. And step back out of it and realize that, okay, maybe I can't catch them all right now, and I just have to let them land where they land and pick up the ones I can and go forward with it. And I think sometimes, especially this time of the year for us in our business, it does feel overwhelming. It feels stifling. You feel like you're treading water and you keep going under and popping your little head back up. And you know you're gonna get through it. You've gotten through it all these other years, but it just feels like sometimes it's Everybody wants something from you all at the same time and you can't manage it and you want to please everybody and you might feel like, I haven't pleased everybody. It's really hard to please everybody and things aren't going the way you wanted them to. There's no perfect. That's the other part, there's no perfect. I think that sometimes we strive for perfect and there's no perfect. That's part of work and being in the industry we're in.

And I think part of it is taking the initiative to have faith in yourself, to be open, to realize that part of success and part of whatever success is to you, but part of success and part of peace with yourself is learning by not being able to catch all the ping pong balls, learning by falling down and getting up, knowing that you're going to still be there. The sun's still going to come up. And, you know, I'm getting kind of woo-woo here, but it really, it, it makes sense to just take it one step at a time. You know, you— and I'm speaking to the brand new people in this industry right now that we run into quite a bit. You made it here for a reason.

Mm-hmm.

And you're scared, but you're here. And so open up your heart and open up your mind, and all of a sudden it's going to start coming to you in those little nuggets. We all, we all started there, you know?

Yeah. And those that are in the middle of it or this, you know, we're in wherever, whatever journey you're in, I think, Steve, it's relevant no matter what. I mean, you just don't know the impact. Well, think about it.

In the beginning of your business, it's different. But, and this is when you're like most receptive to all the things you want to bring in, everything. Then you try things, they don't work. But think about in the beginning when all you really— your main goal is to make sure you have enough money to pay yourself.

Yeah.

You're it. You're the company. You're everything. And you might have come from a job. Pay yourself and pay your Blue Cross. That was my main— that was my 2 goals when I left my big girl job and went on my own to do this. And I started out part-time doing the big girls and then left it. And I can remember the same thing. I remember thinking, gosh, am I Am I gonna make this work? Because you hear all these stats about how many businesses don't make it. You know, am I gonna make it work? And then you start to get the clients, and then all of a sudden, before you know it, you turn around, you're like, I need help doing all this work. You know, it does come. But there are moments in time, even for us, even going forward, like, there's times where I'm like, no one's calling us. What's wrong? What did I do wrong? Where'd the marketing go wrong? And then all of a sudden— The fire hose is turned on and I move from nothing to a whole bunch of things. And how did that—

That always happens.

It does. And it always has this— there's that— if we could track it, I bet you if you could have tracked it from the beginning of time, there are months when it lulls, there's months when it peaks. And it's, it's just the nature of the business. And sometimes you just have to, you just have to remember that, that it gets crazy busy and then it stalls out. And then you could embrace those moments when And there's not a lot going on. You can kind of just crank along and forget about it until all of a sudden, you know, what hits the fan and it's like, oh my God.

So I do feel I was having this conversation the other day. I was listening to somebody make this point too, and it wasn't my point, but they did bring up a good analogy. It's like not everyone should be a business owner. Not everyone's built for an entrepreneurial journey. And some people think that they are because they've converted a hobby or, and or something of that nature and feel like they are. And really, in the end, it's, it's okay to not be. It's not built for everyone. It can feel manic. It can feel all these emotions like Linda that you're saying. I think to me, the way that I see it is whatever that decision is, you stay where you are and you want growth. You move to a different industry or a different career change and you want growth. Or you don't. But you wanna enrich your life. That's okay too. And, and maybe you find circles or networks or groups that, that have that. It's definitely about the people that surround you. I know a lot of conversations over the years have been talked about, like, who you're, you know, who you're surrounded by is who you're going to, you know, emulate or be or so forth. If shooting up there isn't for you, that's okay. It's fine.

Yeah.

It's an acceptable means to be here. I think the pressure, the outside pressure of society and the way that people are trying to move in this sort of gig economy, this freelance-style economy, it's not suitable to everyone. Some people really like a certain format of structure, and within that there are a wealth of opportunities to help somebody else out and/or, you know, be part of Someone guiding you. And you might hit a stride in a different era of your life. You don't know. It's, it's like you get married, you have kids, right? Well, that looks like so natural. But maybe that you get married, you're like, I don't want to have kids, or, you know, kids came before the marriage, or whatever it is. It's not perfect, to your point, Linda. And so I think, you know, if, if you allow yourself the, the time and space, If, if you're ready for something like that and you want that, great. If you don't, okay. But it's the impact of it is so rewarding. And for all of us, like, it's hard to not have it in as part of my life. I guess for me, it's— I didn't identify it in that way before, but now I do. Now that I can see it through the other lens. Now I can see like, oh, I am mentoring other people, and I'm not realizing it. I didn't put the hat on. It's okay to not wear the title. I'm, you know me, I'm like, whatever the title, the title. But yeah, I feel like people have to have space to be okay. If you want to work for a company and you're moving from place to place and that doesn't work and you want to still work in that industry, you should be able to have that where you don't feel like the pressure of having to open up the business kind of thing just to get your own.

You can be mentored and work and maybe you want to better yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, that's definitely a thing. And if we're all looking to keep continuing to grow and get better in what we do, I think if you're not, I don't know. It's just— but some people don't want to have— because with the business owner, you never take the hat off. It's on all the time. And maybe you have work where you can leave work at 4:30 in the afternoon. You're done for the day until you go walk back in the door at 8, 9:00 in the morning. Maybe that's Works in your life, then you probably shouldn't be a business owner because that's not how it works in most industries. You have to work. You work a lot more, and it should be a passion, I think. As far as—

It should be a passion.

It should be a passion. Yeah. I think, I think that's one of the things we all 3 have is that very, we're very passionate about our work. I don't know about you, Steve, but I get a little offended when people tell me I should be retiring by now. I'm like, well, what are you telling me that for? Just because of an age? People wanna tell you to retire. I'm like, but I like what I do. If I like what I do, I, I'm not a pickleball, tennis, walk-around person.

I—

oh, I— yeah. No, no, no.

The place is full of that where I live. And good for them. That's what they wanna do. And, you know, I'm not criticizing what they do, but it's also not for me. That, that would be for me. I can't—

Do you feel like some people feel like it's a status versus an, like a, like it Well, yeah, I get that.

Why do you still work? And then it almost takes offense to my husband because I have to work. Like, you couldn't take care of her to have her not work at her age. And it's like, no, I like to work. And then once they've spent a few minutes with me, then they're like, oh, yeah, you are very passionate about what you do. And I said, I love it. I love the challenge of it.

Same thing.

I mean, that's just me. And if somebody asks me that question and my husband stands there and goes, oh, God, you just asked her the wrong question.

Like, whatever you just said is the wrong—

you're going just get a mouthful out of her because she's gonna let you know why she likes to work. And I do like the challenge of the whole thing of operating the business. I thank my grandfather, who was my mentor.

There you go.

Mentors. My grandfather basically guided me through that life. My dad died when I was very young. My grandfather stepped up and I can remember learning things from him that I never would have learned from my dad. Like, He showed me how he would read the Wall Street Journal, and he would show me how he did the stock market. And I had no clue about this stuff. He ran his own business. He came here as an immigrant through Canada with his mother, who was divorced, which nobody got divorced back then. Like, we're talking very—

Oh, yeah.

'40s. And he came here, and he had to learn English with the nuns. And he had a strong work ethic. He was in the military. He had a strong work ethic. And he started at the very lowest place in his business. And he saved every penny and bought out the owner and became the boss. And as a kid, I was his grandkid, he would take me to work when I had time with him on a Saturday. My parents got divorced and my father didn't know what to do with me. So I'd go over to visit my grandmother and, you want to go with your grandfather to work? And I would go to work and I'd sit in that office. I love this. This is so much fun. Can I be your secretary? I remember doing that with him. And then he would make me do things like, that machine broke, but there's still good pieces in there, because he was a machine operator.

Wow.

screw machine company. So we would go through the buckets of stuff that they would normally toss away and I'd pull all the good pieces out for him so he would be able to— that's the importance of my grandfather.

What a wonderful story.

Pick up every penny. Don't ever walk by money and not pick it up, no matter if it's a penny, a dime, or whatever. He always taught me that. He grew up in the Depression.

I love it, Linda. I love it. Well, obviously my mom. You know, you all know my mom too.

Oh, so precious.

Yeah. It's the biggest, biggest impact, of course, in my entire life. But yeah, similar, very similar, Linda. And you love that. And when you see that passion from somebody else, it's like, it looks like they're just working hard, but really there is some love and passion into their career.

Yeah.

Or into their daily life.

I love that you work with your mom because they're so freaking adorable.

I know.

And they want to help Sarah. Sarah, it's so cute because they're like— I call them the Smurfs. They're like off to the side, but they're very much— I never saw it at first that Sarah was like her mom. It took a bit. And then all of a sudden I'm like, wait a minute now. And of course, I don't know your dad, but I didn't see it because your mom's so cute and adorable, but I'm like, Sarah's cute and adorable. So now I can figure out— now I'm starting to see.

Yeah.

Every once in a while she'll say something. I'm like, yeah, she's just like her mom, which is a compliment. Your mom is a sweetie, but she is tough, and I love that about her.

Well, she had to be, right? Single mom, an immigrant, single mom, 2 kids in tow. You know, big impact with family. I mean, same similar thing, Linda, similar. The ethnicity also, the learning another language, knowing 3 languages, really, she knows 3. It's, it's, it changes you as a, as a person.

Yes.

And that's, I think that's where the, sometimes your, your younger journey obviously makes your vision towards your future look a certain way. And it may not be the best outlook, but when you look at some of— when people look at all of these, they look at people in our community and they're almost like putting on pedestals. And you meet them and you're like, they're just average people. They're just like, this is just me. This is who I am. Similar to a lot of celebrities are that way. And there are some people within the major communities that we're in every day and in the social atmosphere of our world. And we see these people, we want to hold them up here. And then you get their stories and you found out they were incarcerated. Once in their life, and then they made this journey. And you know, the I I've always modeled myself to. Yes, I may sound like this right now, but I'm humble and honest. And Linda and I are both much like this. And same with you. I I started here, and I'm okay to admit to you I've you know had some issues along the way. I'm okay to be honest about that. And that's obviously influenced from Seth being real with us. So it makes it so that you can remain humble, and you can remain. present and relevant so that other people don't feel alienated from that source of, of space. So it's, it's a special spot to be.

Don't you think too that you learn, you learn a lot, not just in the uptimes, but the downtimes? I think you actually learn more out of the downtimes in your life than you do in the uptimes.

You have to have those and you have to respect them. You know, you're going to make it. You'll be fine. You know, it's always the darkest before the dawn, you know.

But it's so true because you think of life lessons that you learn in downtimes and things you learn more personally about yourself that you may want to improve because you've learned in your hardest times in life that may have affected you the most. And then you change. I think sometimes the harder times makes it— life takes a hard change, a hard right, so to speak.

Yeah.

And you're not the same person you were before the hard times. Things have changed and you hopefully learn from it, but it feels awful when you're in it. But for sure, that can be your mentor too, the pivotal moments in life that really Really grab you. And you feel when they're happening that you're like, why is this happening to me? Because you really realize it. Like, why is this happening to me? And then you realize sometimes it's something— I can remember my hardest time, something somebody will say. Then I have to realize, pop out of the bubble. It's not all about you, Linda. There's other people who've had the exact same thing happen to them.

Exactly.

And you need to know that. It's okay if you have a time in business that's not going the way you want to, or even personally. Know that sometimes you have to step back a little bit and reflect and then make changes if you need to make changes. Work hard at making the changes. And sometimes changes aren't a light switch. They sometimes take time.

Yeah.

And they take hard work. So I think that's the other thing with mentoring and anything in life. Hard work. It comes from hard work. You know, it doesn't just happen.

I started— I mean, it was thankfully Seth knew something was wrong with me. It was a heartache that I was coming out of. And Steve, to your point, it was very— but, you know, I was determined to not allow myself to be stuck in that position. That was my personal choice. Some people, it's hard. You can't see the light. You can't see through the trees to understand it. So Like you're saying, and I'm sure you've done this multiple times, Steve, because who would have thought chugging along, you've got a successful business. What do you mean you want to buy my store? What do you mean you want to buy my stuff? Like, yeah, who would have thought that would have happened to you? And like, for Linda and I, this just never— this was not the intent when we started hanging out together. It was just great friends that really enjoyed and had the same—

So much fun. Yeah, it was so funny. Dove into something that we had no business diving into. And then we both were like, with the two of us, and then we were like, got done. I was like, that was a lot of fun. You want to do it again?

Let's get one.

And it became that kind of a ball rolling down the hill. And then it was the tax person that said, you know, you guys have a business. You know, you have a business. You better name it. And she named it. She named it.

Yeah. Thank God she named it.

You better name your business and make it legit because you already made a lot of money here and you need it. And we had to do all of that, like, kind of quickly on the fly. But, yeah, it was, you know, really want to do this. And I can remember back when I was working with my husband and I had started going out on my own and doing my own business, and somebody came up to me and I had started a business. It was really small, just started. And somebody came up to me and I thought it was a good complementary business. She was working for a company doing collections. And I thought collections business worked great with an accounting business. We could go together and we could give each other work. And I can remember my husband saying, you know, you don't ever really want a business partner. And mind you, he had his brother his whole life. He goes, you just don't know. You don't know what it's like to have a partner and you have to make decisions. And that stuck with me, that whole thing. So we never made the business, like that never worked. And it never would have worked. I didn't really know her that well.

Not that I Sarah that well.

But with Sarah, it was completely different because with Sarah, I just knew, and I just heard this on a podcast this week, that you have to have Jason Statham.

Oh, okay.

I've never missed a Jason Statham podcast. And he said something about when you're solo, if you have a partner, it might— maybe it might not have been Jason, it might have been one of the law firm ones. When you had— yes, it was actually. It was the other one that I really, really like.

I love this. That let her figure it out.

Yeah, I know. I'm trying to think.

See, it's all coming to me because I did listen to Jason's stats this morning, and I'm gonna have to wait in in like I'm dying to know moment here.

Yes. Call me later. Call me later.

No, I should know it off the top of my head because he's oh maximum lawyer.

Okay.

Okay. Maximum lawyer, and they had a divorce. A business lawyer that was on that does business divorces. So, okay, she was going in about it, and she said there's nothing wrong with partnerships, but they have to be the right people.

They have to be the right people.

She said you have to have 2 people that aren't identical. Identical people won't work because you're gonna have— you need persons with strengths over here and persons These 2 make a really strong partnership.

Yeah.

If you have a partnership where you're both the same, she says those are the ones that don't seem to do well because they might not think the same way and they both think they're right. You have to have a give and take. It's like a marriage. You have to have a give and take. And she dealt with that and she talked about partnership agreements. That's why I listen to that one every week, too. There's 2 of them and I listen to both of those. They have 2 shows every week and they're really good. They're all lawyer stuff. But in this case, it was interesting to listen to her say how she works through some of the partnership problems and how she would keep partnerships together. And in that case, I remember her saying that and I thought to myself, well, that's what Sarah and I have. She has her strengths, I have my strengths. We pull from it. We have our weaknesses, but fortunately my weakness is Sarah's strength and probably vice versa.

So you complement each other very well.

So, and I've always said this, and this is, I think, a rare thing for a partnership, that if there was— I was out on a ship and there was no internet, and I— there was a business decision that made— needed to be made immediately, and Sarah couldn't ask me about it, I would come home and she would say, I had to make this decision. It would be exact decision I would make. It would be.

We've done that multiple times.

We've done it so often. She'll say, hey, And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds kind of me.

Yeah.

Because that's the times when you second guess. I've had this moment, not like a second guess, but I'm almost like, I'm gonna pause for a minute. I just wanna make sure she would think that this is an okay decision. Yeah. So it's interesting. I've never, I, I've never thought, I mean, I've heard of it. I just never thought about it. And like, until you're saying it, a business divorce, because obviously, Steve, you've mentioned this. In a few other podcast sessions where you've had a client, really, it is like a true divorce, and you feel caught in the middle, and we're like some of the key people in the middle.

She's definitely a mentor to these people because sometimes it doesn't end in a divorce.

Yeah.

So sometimes she hops in and she works with the partnership agreement. So this is why it's important. And that's just one of the things she was talking about is that mentorship piece of it.

Is a lot of it down to communication? Most, most of it. Did she highlight, like, the key?

She talked more about personality types. But it was, it was very interesting. And then the— okay, is it— it's a fascinating practice of law that she ended up meandering into, because that was where she started, you know.

I guess, Linda, I think what I think you're kind of answering in my mind, what I'm thinking is Personality types leads to disconnected communication because you're not— you think you're being heard from either side, and it's such a misinterpretation sometimes. Like, the way that something said to you, you were like, wait, why would you say it like that?

And we've had that happen where you may have had a thought about making a decision, and you'll come to me and I'll say, you know, and I might see it in a different way, and I might say that you. And then all of a sudden you're like, yeah, you're right. Maybe we shouldn't do that. And vice versa. And vice versa has happened both ways. So I think sometimes it does come down to communication. So we don't make that decision without talking to each other. But I think, I mean, if you're talking about mentors, I've learned from Sarah. She's been my mentor too. Steve, you've been my mentor.

Thank you.

Well, Steve's had this in his former business and business partner too. And You, you had some failsafe things that you did for each other.

Yeah, we did.

We did.

We had an attorney to that, you know, to the conversation we're having today. In a way, he was a mentor. He was a business attorney. He did buy-sell agreements and all those sort of things. And, and he was like, okay, if you're going to partner, this is what you need to do. And this is what you need to watch out for. And he laid the map out for us and we respected each other. My business partner, was the same like you guys. We both could make a decision and know intuitively that the other one would support the other one. But he had his slate of expertise, if you will, and I had mine. I was more the business side. And we, you know, we were a million-dollar-a-year business very easily. You know, that required a lot of business acumen to keep that going.

Mm-hmm.

And he was the creative side. I mean, he could He could take somebody and he could sit a lady down in his hair chair and she'd walk out being a goddess. And I can't draw— I can't draw a line with a big fat crayon. So, you know, it's, it's, it's how you complement each other. I think that that's a really good point, you know.

Yeah.

And I have to say thank you to my dad for being such a wonderful mentor. I mean, he— my mom divorced. We had a, you know, she had a rough marriage to someone. And she divorced and she had 3 boys and we, we all 3 got farmed out to different relatives in different parts of the country until mom could get it together. And then she met my dad and my dad brought us all home. He said, the boys have to be together. Now, he didn't have to do that.

Yeah.

You know, he did not have to do that. And he worked 2 jobs to make sure we had food on the table. And I am forever grateful. And he taught me to drive a car. He taught me how to build things. He, you know, he and I both share a love of, of aviation and airplanes and stuff, and we'll get on the phone and talk for hours about some stupid airplane model. But, but he— I had a conversation with my younger brother a few weeks ago. My little brother said, you know, I'm really realizing what Dad did for us.

Mm-hmm.

And so we've both been thanking him in different ways. And Wow, that's so powerful. So powerful. And we're lucky parents. We are, you know. And yeah, and your family, Sarah, just what a cool family you have.

I am fortunate. It takes a village, like everyone knows, is in that space. And like your dad's moment of change of So, I mean, I could sit here and list them all, and I don't want to do that to people, but there's just enough in my personal life that fills my cup and allows me to be who I am today.

Yeah.

And I'm grateful to be able to have them on the journey with Linda and I, especially employed with us, working with us, and enriching their own lives in different ways. And it's a fortunate space to be in, and I am very Grateful. Yes, I'm a hard driver in a lot of ways, in the way that I work, my style. But it's always with gratitude and with thanks. There's a lot of times I'll sit on a Friday night and, oh, I'm just going to pop this in and say thank you to everybody because we just went through a mentally exhaustive week, or we all collectively helped. So, and, and the community of everyone here in the accounting community that has embraced Knowing my mom and then knowing my mom's like she's an identical twin is a fortune too, because they are little stars in that space. And I love that.

They just take all the pressure off of us when we go anywhere because nobody cares about us. They just go right to them because they're so darn cute. Everybody wants to go up and see them. And like, Sarah, what about us? Aren't we the reason why we're here?

Even locally. Even locally. It's hilarious. It's almost become a new client.

Yeah.

Said, I want it to— I want them— I want people— like, there's this thing, like, if you have seen this person in Portland and this person in Portland and this person, like, you check it off the list. It's like a scavenger hunt. It's like she was like saying that about us, because when you see 3 of us together, um, it does change. You're kind of— you're kind of like, wait, they're twins? I look so much like my parent. my mom, like, identical in a lot of ways. And so it's just— and the mannerisms and stuff. So it's fun. It's just a lot of fun. Life is a lot of fun. And I think that, like we said earlier, stay open to these new opportunities. You'll never know where it will take you. So, yeah.

Yeah. You never know who will be teaching you either.

Steve will. Steve will teach you.

I made— as we close today, I made a little checklist of stuff for Working with a mentor.

Uh-huh.

And? Identifying your goals, how you find a mentor, establishing the relationship, set clear expectations, be open and coachable. We talked about that. Take the initiative to make it work, to, to be humble, to accept your mistakes and, and get that guidance. Maintain regular communication, express gratitude, evaluate and adjust, and Most importantly, pay it forward.

Pay it forward.

Pay it forward. That's why we're all here on this planet. That's one of my beliefs in my life is pay it forward.

Oh, how do you do that without doing this? Oh, there she's doing it. Oh, what do I do?

For those of you listening, we're getting all kinds of emojis on our screens.

You can't see it, but we're here. Oh, well, thank you, everybody. This has been great.

It has. It hasn't been about accounting per se, but it, it'll serve you. It will serve you well in your legal accounting life.

Yeah.

To have a mentor and be one.

If anything you take away, start to maybe think about the people in your life that have touched your heart in your life. And, and, you know, you start to think—

Even your own clients can touch you in that way.

Oh, yeah.

Near and dear to us. And T, you got something to say for us?

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Thank you to everyone who's been a part of our respective and collective journeys. We're grateful for you. Well, thank you. Awesome. Enjoy.

Bye-bye.

We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye.