Not Growing on Instagram? A 3-Step Strategy That Works

Do you feel like you're too late to the Instagram game? Think again. In this episode, we're uncovering a 3-part content strategy that actually works straight from an Instagram expert who's helped small businesses go viral and boost sales without burning out. If you've ever wondered what to post, how to grow, or how to turn likes into dollars, this one's for you. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Launch Your Box podcast with weekly tips, tricks, and strategies to start, launch, and grow your subscription box.

Now here's your host, Sarah Williams.

Today we're going to talk Instagram, and it's not a topic that I talk about very much because let's be honest, if you look at my Instagram, it would be less than stellar. So I brought the Instagram expert here to talk with us today. Today. And it's a funny story because my friend Heidi Easley is in a mastermind. And I noticed several months back, her Instagram was just, it was popping, like it was off and popping. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you are growing over on Instagram. She goes, I just do what Michelle says. And I said, who's Michelle? And she said, you need to go follow her. Just do what Michelle says and you're going to grow. So I did. I went and followed Michelle. I've been following her for months and I reached out and said, hey Michelle, I got to get you on the podcast because we need some Instagram help. So welcome to the podcast. I have Michelle Gifford here. Michelle, let's just start with kind of your story. How did you become an Instagram expert?

Well, thank you. Thank you for that great introduction. I'm excited to be here. Um, Instagram, Well, here's the thing. I have been teaching and mentoring and coaching, and also I have an agency. So I've been doing work for women in business for a really long time, and I love helping them grow. And when Instagram came up, I was actually a photographer. And I mean, Instagram got started for photographers, and I saw the power of growing on Instagram. And just like what an amazing place it was for especially women business owners, because we're actually really good at connecting and we're really good at the things that Instagram does, right? Like sharing our life and sharing about us and also connecting with our audience. And I saw Instagram was like the place for that and that women were thriving. And so I started, I started like, you know what, this is the place. This is where we're going to be. And so I've been teaching Instagram for, for a long time because I just see so much power in it. And especially with how things are changing, you can start today and grow hundreds of thousands of followers tomorrow. And as a woman in business, especially like we don't get startup, you know, like we don't get investors usually. And so to have that power, I'm like, listen, we just got to learn how to use it. And then we're going to have so many women in business like just take off. So I have been teaching it and I have an agency and I've been using it for myself. So I try to come at it as like Instagram is part of a bigger marketing whole, right? Like I love email, I love Pinterest, I love SEO and blogging, and my agency does that. And so, but Instagram is usually the entry point, you know, as for a lot of my business owners that I work with, it's their entry point to business. And so I started focusing on Instagram and I just really love helping people grow.

Okay. This is great because you said something and I'm going to laugh as I say this. You said you could start today and have hundreds of thousands of followers tomorrow. I have been struggling for 8 years and I don't even have 10,000 followers. So I need you.

I need you.

Here's what I, here's what I want to like just ask you, like, is it too late? To get started on Instagram? Like, are we too late to the game right now?

No, you're actually just on time, let me tell you. So Instagram, just a few weeks ago, announced that their algorithm has like officially changed, and it's a lot more like TikTok. So they, it switched from a follower-based algorithm to a content-based algorithm. So with followers, it was like, okay, you have 100,000 followers, your content's gonna automatically be seen by more people. And now it's like, hey, you have this piece of content. It doesn't really matter how many followers you have, but how are people engaging and reacting to your content? And so if you, you could, and not everyone does create a piece of content and then get 200,000 followers. But, but because of that change, it's becoming a lot more like TikTok. But the cool thing and why I love Instagram is because Instagram is at the core of it. It's based on relationships. Right? Like it's your connection with people and TikTok was built on like who, who's in your For You page, right? It's based on the algorithm getting the right content. But on Instagram we still want that connection. And so it actually is a really great place because the algorithm is becoming more friendly to, doesn't matter how many followers you have, you just have to get committed to creating great content.

Okay. I love the sound of that. So let's, let's dig in and get a little bit actionable because, okay, so I say Michelle, I'm in, let's get past the 10,000. Follower mark. What are like, give me 3 things that I should be doing right now to grow on Instagram.

So posting, are you posting every day? Okay, great. Okay. So one of the things I was stuck, like I've been where you are. So I was stuck at 18,000 followers. Um, and I, I was posting every day. I was doing all the things and then I was so frustrated and I was like, I either have to figure this out. Or I have to figure this out. It was actually— there was no more. I was like, we gotta do this. I'm a smart lady. I teach marketing. And so this was in 2022, and I, um, I was— I looked at it and was like, okay, like, from a marketing perspective, I'm not actually doing things the right way. So I was like, I need to niche down. Okay, what am I— who am I talking to? And then I, I was like, you know what, like Everywhere else I implement a marketing funnel. Like I create content for to attract people in, I create content to nurture people and I create content to sell. Like, and I'm like, I'm not doing that on Instagram. And I'm like, if I want to grow, then I've got to create more attraction content. Right. I mean, like if I were looking at it, you know, so that was in 2022. I started in October, the first part of October. And by December of 2022, I started going viral. And it's because I really focus on that attraction content and you have to have all pieces or you don't build that community with that nurture and you don't make money if you don't sell. But so I started implementing this attract, nurture, sell method, which was like 50% attraction, 30% nurture, and 20% sell. And it started working for me, you know, within a couple months I started going viral and so I started teaching it. And then my students were going viral and then I started implementing it in my agency and it works and it continues to work because these are sound marketing principles, but we don't apply them to Instagram, but we should. So I, so once you start looking at that and realizing, okay, there's different types of content have different goals. Well, then it changes everything because then you don't have to rely on like one piece of content doing everything. And if one content, like I know when I put my nurture content out there, it's not going to get as many views. And that's okay because that's not the goal. And so for me, that took a lot of pressure off and also not just pressure, but it was able, I was able to focus and I was like, okay, this is, you know, let's figure out what is the attraction content that is attracting my followers. So, so that wasn't a 1, 2, 3, but I will say that like it is a 1, 2, 3, attract, nurture, sell.

It is a 1, 2, 3.

But I guess it's not like, okay, post a reel today, you know, But most people are not coming on Instagram with an actual strategy. And so, but if you have this framework, right, where you're like, okay, what is my attraction content? Right?

What kind of content is it? Attraction content?

Yeah. Great question. So it's going to be different for everyone, but attraction content in general, it's usually Reels. This may change in a little bit because the Reels algorithm is much more friendly to putting your content in front of non-followers. Okay. So, and we're getting a little bit more where carousels are doing that as well. But right now, Reels are easier to get in front of non-followers. And then like trending things, like trending Reels, controversial topics that people want to talk about and they want to talk about in your comments is good. Something entertaining or like lists or how-tos, POVs, quick wins, those kind of things are going to be attraction content. So what I would do if you're like, what is my attraction content, right? I would say, all right, let's look, two things. Go to my analytics and I'm going to look and see like, because you can say, see which content brings in the most followers. Okay, well that's probably attraction content.

And then are we looking for the non-followers?

So you, I think you can look and see like which one brought in followers. But if you go to your— but yes, that's, that's true too. Yeah. But if you go to your individual reels and see which content is going to more non-followers than followers, yes, that's attraction content too. Okay. Okay. So I want to see which ones are converting too. So, so I'm looking at both of those analytics. And then the other thing is if you went, So like, so for you, if you went a little bit beyond your niche, so like you are talking about like subscription boxes, right?

Yeah, yeah.

What would be like a step back from your niche or like on the edges of your niche? It would probably be like business or branding or, right? What would you say?

Right, like e-commerce, you know, online businesses, you know, that, that's that entrepreneur that starts from their kitchen table, you know, that kind of, if we're talking about my coaching business, yes.

Yeah. So I would go and look at, okay, you have these accounts that you're, that are killing it at the edge of your niche, right? I would go to their content and see, okay, what, which content is taking off? Usually you'll see some pieces of content that are standout content. Like, they— like, every— all of their other content gets 50,000 views, and then there's like every so often there's one that gets 2 million. So what kind of— what is that content? I want you to analyze it. We're not going to copy it, but we're going to really like look at it and say, okay, what's working for them?

Yeah.

And how can I apply this to my business?

Okay.

Um, so there's a lot of research to be done. Someone's doing this, right? Someone's doing what you do well. So let's go learn from them. We're not going to copy again because, and we also have our own spin and our own niche and our own people, but really seeing, okay, like what are the things that work? And you might say, like, like you just said something about people who are starting from their kitchen table. I would, I would really hone into, there's some funny things about that, right? Like I have friends that started e-commerce and they're like, like even showing what people think is happening in the background and like what is actually happening. And you have like kids running around. It's like, you know, you're there packaging at the kitchen table and they like block, I don't know, SpaghettiOs from coming, whatever. But I think that there's some funny content that your ideal audience would see and be like, oh my gosh, she gets me. And they would have one or two specific people that they would know who to share it with. Okay. And that's, That's the kind of content that's attraction content, right? Because it's like, oh, we know exactly who to share it with.

Okay, I get it. Yeah. Okay. I can think about that. So, okay, now if I'm working on attraction content, how often do I need to be posting? Is this a daily thing that I need to be posting attraction content or is it a mixture within my week? Yeah.

So I do the 3-2-1 method. So if let's say that you're posting 6 days a week, because the math is easy, then you're going to do 50% attraction, 20% nurture, I mean 30% nurture and 20% sell. So it's like, so that would be 3 attraction, 2 nurture, 1 sell. Okay.

I love this. So let's talk about then the nurture content, which I feel like now that you're talking, I feel like that's what most of my content is. And that's probably why I'm not growing the way I want to grow. Right. So let's talk about examples of nurture content?

Yeah, so nurture content is, these are going to be like more in-depth things like carousels or maybe you're doing lives or infographics where it's like you're speaking directly to your audience. Like you are solving a problem, they're going to save it. So when I'm thinking about attraction versus nurture, I will think attraction, are they going to share this with someone? Like is there someone that they'd be like, oh yeah, I've got to share this. That's more attraction content. I mean, this is general, but it's what I'm thinking about. And then nurture, they're going to be like, oof, I got to share, I got to save that. Like, I'm going to need that. I've got to save that.

Okay. So they're hitting that little bookmark, they're saving it in their little Instagram account and they're going to come back to it. Maybe, maybe not, but at least they're taking an action, right?

Okay.

Now, and obviously I know what selling content is. I'm showing up, I'm selling the things, but Let's talk about a few more things. Reels, stories, lives, static posts. You've talked about carousels. How do we prioritize these in our content mix of, of attraction, nurture, and sell?

Yeah. So when I do attract, nurture, sell, that is just for the feed. Okay. So stories is a little different because you can attract people because it only goes to your followers.

That's more nurture.

Yeah. So, so with stories, I think of value, engage, and connect. That's what I think of in my stories. So how can I add value? How do I connect on a regular basis? Which is, I guess I said engage second, so we'll keep it like, okay, so value, like how can I add value to my audience in different ways? And then, and there's different ways. It can be entertaining, right? It can be educational. There's different ways. It could just be behind the scenes. And then engage is like, how am I having a conversation with them on a regular basis? So that can be poll stickers, it can be asking questions, it can be like, hey, give me your advice. And then connect is like, hey, they're here because of me, just because I'm a real person and there's something. So what are the things that I'm showing on a regular basis that they can connect with? And I think of like, what are 3 to 5, like come up with a list of 3 to 5 things you're going to share in your stories on a regular basis that they can connect with. So for me, I'm a mom, I've got 5 kids, I'm busy, and that a lot of people relate to that, right? So how can I show my motherhood? And I coach my girls' softball team, like I'm an assistant coach. And so I will show that. And that's something that people connect with. Now, is everyone in my audience a softball mom coach? No. They're not, but they do get the like, oh man, she is running people to practices, right? That's something they're relating to. And so, so think about what those things are for you. It could be you like monster trucks. I don't care, but like, you know, like, but those kinds of things. So we just dove into story strategy, which is perfect. But, but as far as like prioritizing where we are, I think we have to decide like how much, is Instagram like our main marketing channel and how important is it to grow? Because we have to analyze like how much time can we actually commit to this? And then we can be like, okay, great, now I can do a strategy. So as far as like where do we put our time, I'm gonna say Reels are easier to grow. Like so if you are, if one of your goals is to grow, I would prioritize Reels. Carousels, they take a little bit more, they take a little bit more time to, like for the algorithm to start pushing you out. Like it takes a little bit more time, it seems, for the algorithm to trust you and to know what you're doing. And so it is an investment, but sometimes carousels are like what put you on the map. So, and it kind of depends on how you create, right? Like, are you someone who likes to show up on video? Then do video, like lean into that, you know? Are you a writer and you love that aspect of it, then do carousels and lean in. But if you want to grow, then focus on your feed. And then the stories, I mean, I like to show up almost every day because you have to, like stories is such a powerful place because it's where your real people, like the people who care a lot about you show up. And so figuring out a way that you can do that that can be fun and also fun for your audience. I would put as like my second priority. I would do your feed first because you got to grow. And then, and then next I would do stories. Now lives are great, but I'd also put them, I put those after stories. Okay.

So Reels, posts, stories, lives. Is that what we're talking about?

Yeah, that's it.

Okay. Now I had a thought while you were talking about this and I want to give our audience kind of an actionable, takeaway from this, I was thinking about, you know, how like every subscription box owner, what's one thing every subscription box owner could do in this setting? And I think about a box opening because we can repurpose this in so many ways. And so we could do this with a simple sped up reel of unboxing the product for that month. So your subscription box, you could do that. I also just, I've never done this before, but I just thought about doing it as a carousel with an image of the box closed on the front, they swipe to see the first product, they swipe to see the next product, they swipe to see, and then the last swipe is, you know, the whole box together. So that could be a carousel unboxing right there. I also think we could do this in stories and talk about like why I picked this item for the box. Like tell me what the theme was. I can really connect with them in the stories of the why behind it. And then, you know, I'm thinking about, just doing the live, you could do a live unboxing. So we could take one piece of the content and apply it to all of these different types of content on, on Instagram, right?

Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. And then I just want to ask, like, what do you think? So with your, with, with that piece of content, would it be attract, nurture, or sell?

I think it's attract, right? And a sell, possibly. I think people seeing that, they're like, oh, what is that? To me, that would be an attraction, but also it may sell them to the box if they got to see everything in it.

Do you think so? I would say that it's definitely sell for sure. So tell me, someone— why would someone share— why would someone share a carousel of like what's in the box?

Oh, I didn't think about that. Well, maybe because it's cute and they're like, hey, hey girl, look at this, or something like that.

So what you'd have to do is put like a reason why people care. So let's say, I mean, I know there's a million kinds of subscription boxes, but like I finally found the perfect thing for like Mother's Day, or I don't know, something, but something that was, that someone would, it would give a person a reason to share it that's timely and they knew exactly who to share it with. So if you want that to be more of like, I would think that it's like in general, if you're just unboxing, you're just showing a product. So that's selling, which is great. I mean, we have to do it. Oh my gosh.

If I'm wanting to attract, so my box is called the Monogram Box, Michelle. And so there's an item in every single box that has your monogram on it. And so I would say like, do you know someone that's obsessed with monograms or something like like that, that, that would get them to share it or tag someone? Is that what you're thinking for as far as attract?

So I would actually think that you would want to do it more specific even. So we, I have a client who is, they're, they do like wire lantern festivals all over.

Okay.

And do you know, anyway, they, so they travel from place to place, right? And they have these festivals And one of the, one of the pieces of content that is an attract piece of content that works really well is that we'll say like, do you know someone in, or something about like Sydney, Australia? Like we name a specific place that they're going and like send this to the person who you want to take you to, you know, in Sydney, Australia. So it's someone like something very specific. Instead of being like anyone who's obsessed with monograms, I actually am not obsessed with monograms, but I might be obsessed with the letter M, right? So you've gotta think about that. And also I would say that you also wanna think about beyond your actual product for attraction, like think beyond your product. So who is this person? Like who is the actual person that you're selling to and how can you create content around your brand, like it's definitely brand, but like your ideal audience member, what would they share? Are there quotes that people would share? Are there like funny things that they would really connect with? That is going to be your attraction content. And so I think that there, this is a really good point that you're bringing up is that a lot of times the reason why we're not growing is because we feel like it has to be so centric to like what our actual product is. So I like struggled for a long time because I was like, I don't want to just share trending audio, you know, like I don't want to be that person. And then I was like, you know what, sharing trending audio, I don't do it every day, but that is actually super helpful right now to my audience. Like it just is, right? Because they don't have to think about it and they can just pick it up and go. And I was like, but I am an Instagram strategist. I want to teach you the deep parts of Instagram. And guess what? That's hard to convey in a 7-second reel, like the deep strategy of Instagram. And so I started doing a lot more attraction content. Some of it was trending audio, but like there are these quick wins that really appealed to my audience. Is my, is my brand, is my brain deeper than trending audio? 100%. But How can I meet the people, like meet my people where they're at right now with what they need? So that's, that's how we have to shift for our attraction content.

I love this because I'm thinking about both of my businesses, right? And when we think about Launch Your Box and the coaching business, I can see most of my content is nurture content. When I think about my subscription box business, my e-commerce business, most of my content is selling content. So if you look at both of those businesses, they're both right under 10,000 followers and I'm not, putting any effort or strategy into attraction content for either one of those businesses. So this has been a huge eye-opener for me on the types of content. I know, I think that we're like, oh, I got to do video. Oh, I've got to do another reel. Oh, I've got to do another this or that. But I watch your content and it's like the simplest thing that you're doing, right? Like it's drinking a cup of coffee. It's like typing on your laptop. And I think I have to have a whole production of something to make a reel. And, and that's where I get stuck. Stuck in my head. And I think that's where a lot of people get burnt out is that they think they have to have like this giant production and it's literally you walking outside or it's, you know, doing something like there's so much content that I could film for both businesses just in my warehouse alone of the daily things that we do. And so I think that we have to like pull back from thinking it has to be this production and what would, just thinking about What could I do in my business that would just attract somebody? I'm not trying to sell the cardigan, I'm not trying to sell the t-shirt and the earrings, I'm not trying to sell you the box every time I turn around. But hey, if you see me packing a box or you see me packing 600 boxes down the row, um, are you gonna stop your scroll and look and pay attention and see what is she doing? Or if it's— I'm thinking just a quick 10-second video of all the embroidery machines running at the same time. Those are monograms being stitched out. That's going to attract someone interested in that, like, oh, they do monograms, what are they doing there? And so I think that I, we tend to overthink this, right? We tend to overthink our content and, and that's why it's important to talk about how simple it could be, right?

Yeah. And so what you were talking about specifically are B-roll, right? Those are just little video clips of doing whatever and then you put some information on it. So I think like, so Those little videos, you can, I mean, it's just taking video of what you're doing every day, right, in your business, or you can make intentional ones. And then it's the information that you add to on top of the video, right? Because it's hard, I mean, not very many people just wanna talk straight to camera and like teach something or what, it's like it becomes too much pressure. And you just don't have to do that. You can utilize turning audio and you can add information to your B-roll B-roll and then like, because so one of the things that one of my, I have a B-roll guide that like walks you through like some B-roll ideas. And so I will do, this is so meta, right? But like I will do a video, a B-roll of me and then some B-roll ideas on the B-roll, but that's exactly what people need right now that they want to save or share, right? And then I connect it to, we haven't talked about DM automation, But, but DM automation, you've probably seen it where someone says like, you know, comment, you'll get this. Anyway, that's DM automation and that utilizes, I mean, it just is so good for engagement. Instagram loves it. I love it. My audience loves it and it boosts my engagement really quickly. And then I get people on my email list. So, so many things are happening when you do that. So a 7-second— I, I have like an email opt-in that has like tens of thousands of subscribers, and it all came from these like 7, 10-second Reels where I'm sharing. I'm just sharing a bit of my email opt-in, and then they get the rest when they opt in. So there's just so much power in these, this shorter content, especially if you're having trouble creating content, start with this B-roll content because it's easy to create and you can test some things out and get more confidence and, and like just test what your audience likes.

Okay. I love this. There's so much gold that you just like in these 20 minutes that we've been talking, there's so much gold here and I'm kind of getting excited about it and I can't wait for my team to go listen to this interview with you so they can help me get on it. A question that I have is like this burning question that I get asked all the time. Is, are hashtags still a thing?

Do we still hashtag things?

Is this, is this so 2015 or do we still hashtag things?

You can still hashtag things. So, so hashtags have had a history, right? So they used to be the way that we went viral and you just like get on a hashtag and suddenly everyone saw you. But that's not how they work anymore. Hashtags are an SEO tool. So Instagram has become so much better at SEO, which is search engine optimization, which just is like, you know, it just wants to understand what your content's about. So it looks for keywords, words that you say. So like they, for me, I want them to know that I'm an Instagram strategist. So I'm gonna say like Instagram strategy in the video or on the screen or in the caption. Those kind of things. So hashtags used to be the way that you kind of, that you categorize your content. So hashtags are used for SEO, but Instagram search engine is getting so good that it can just pull out words. You don't have to be like hashtag, but hashtags do connect you to other content. And so if, right, like, so I mean, that's basically what it is. You're putting it in like a folder system, right? So, so like if someone, like if you do subscription box, then if someone clicks on that, you're gonna get a list of right subscription boxes, right? So do you want to be on that list, right? When someone clicks on that hashtag, like, and you know, figure out what hashtags, like maybe it's women's subscription box. I'd probably go like very niche, but Like if someone clicks on that hashtag from a competitor or, you know, from something else, do you want to show up on that? Yeah, absolutely. Right. And so, so I think about hashtags is they are not important. Like they're not super important to your content, but could you find like a list of hashtags that you want to be connected to that, and then some that have your keywords in them. And like, so I think of industry and Are there some hashtags that you want to be connected to and you want your content to come up for if people are searching? Yeah, so make a list of those and then make some, add some hashtags that are content-specific and you're done. But don't overthink it. Like, if you're stressing about hashtags, maybe don't do it. If you're like, if it's stopping you from posting, then just be like, I'm not gonna worry about it. But if you want to, if you want to do just a little bit of hashtag research, figure out what other people are using, what content you wanna be connected to, and add those to your strategy. Okay.

I love that.

Okay.

Next question for you, Michelle. What is one Instagram myth that you'd love to bust?

There's just so many. Just kidding. Let's see. My Instagram myth is, well, I think we did it at the beginning, and it's that it's too late to grow.

Okay.

I think that's the biggest one. I, man, we are, I mean, I think it's a lie we tell ourselves, right? We're just too late. We're too late to the game. And I mean, and it's a part of it. But I would also say that, I guess that one, and then also that, Like, it's just the out— like, the algorithm just kind of chooses, right? I hate the algorithm. The algorithm hates me. And there are ways, if you really understand— to, um, the algorithm isn't a mystery. I mean, we don't know exactly, right? But we know how the algorithm works because YouTube has an algorithm, Google has an algorithm, TikTok— like, all of these things have an algorithm. And the goal of the algorithm is to— for Instagram is to keep people on Instagram. That's it. That is it. They just want people to stay on Instagram because that's how they make money. So if we know that, then we can say, okay, how is it knowing? Like, how is it keeping people on? Okay, well, it's matching. It's playing matchmaker, right? I know that, um, I know that Sarah is really interested in Instagram content and she doesn't follow Michelle, but I know Michelle talks about Instagram and I, and I also know that Sarah's friend Heidi follows Michelle. So maybe, maybe she would like Michelle's content. So then it's going to feed my content to you. But the only way it'll feed my content to you is if it understands what I like to post about, like what do I post on a regular basis? So I have to niche down. I have to be consistent in the type of content that I show up at. And then I can train the algorithm to understand who I am so that it can, when it understands what you want, start pushing my content to more people. So those, I guess, I mean, I, I keep going down these rabbit holes, but you're welcome. But I think like just knowing that we can, you can figure out algorithm, figure out the algorithm and you can grow on Instagram. Those are two things that you can absolutely do. Okay.

Okay. I love that. Can you give us a quick content idea? So my audience, subscription box owners, they have physical products, they have physical boxes. Can you give us a quick content idea that they could go post today?

Sure. Yes, I would love for you to, I would love for you to do a B-roll of you. You can be taking things out of your box, you can be putting things in your box, and I want you to find, I'm going to give you a hook. Hold on. Okay.

Oh, we're getting a hook, y'all.

Yeah, I'm going to give you one in just a second. So because I think that we have to Hold on, I'm just— we'll just cut this part out. So we'll just be quiet. I don't have to—

I don't know, we can keep talking. They're, they're, they're, they're running to get their notebooks to write this down right now.

I was gonna find a really good one for you guys. Okay, um, okay, um, I— oh, this one did really great. So I'm gonna say it for me, but you guys have to do it for your for your audience. So Instagram advice I'd give you if I wasn't scared to hurt your feelings. So I don't know what, like, you know, everyone has their own subscription box, right? But I want you to think about like, what is something that you could say? Because that's a good hook for people to stop and be like, are you good? I mean, they're kind of interested because they know I'm not going to like actually hurt their feelings, but Anyway, so I want you to try that one and I want you to just, I actually want you to like, maybe it's for like, let's like if it's a Mother's Day box, right? Like then it's like your mom actually doesn't want this, this and this, right?

I'm thinking fashion advice I'd give you if I wasn't scared to hurt your feelings because my box has clothing in it, right?

Exactly, right? That's perfect. So really, two really great examples is it's like, is that you need to stop— I don't know, you could come up with it, right?

Leopard print is more.

No, I love it, right? Like, someone might be kind of like, are you kidding me? Leopard is neutral. And that's great. We want them to say that in the comments. We want them to, and we want them to argue with us, right?

We want it to be controversial, right?

Because I mean, that controversy I can handle. I don't need, you know, politics, but like, I can handle leopard politics. Leopard politics. And the other thing is you're going to say like, you're going to say something like leopard, and I'm going to be like, oh my gosh, I just said that to my sister. I'm going to send this to her, you know, like, right? Yes, I'm so mad about that. So perfect.

Okay, so there's one, um, piece of content. I want you to apply it to your niche, and I want you to go post it today, um, and go ahead and tag me in it because I want to see it. So go ahead and tag me in it, and I want to see your post. But, um, Michelle, thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I think everybody listening got some piece of knowledgeable information that they can apply to their business right away. Where can our listeners follow you? Because they all need to go watch your— they all need to be on your Instagram feed watching what you're doing every day. Where can they follow you?

Yeah, you can come follow me at @iammichellegifford on Instagram. I have a podcast as well. It's called The Social Strategist. So we break down This is where I actually go into deeper strategy and we talk about how to use social media to grow your business and to monetize. And then I have a membership that you should come be a part of that will give you content plans and it sends you a bunch of training audio and meet every week. So we'd love to have you a part of that as well.

Okay, awesome. Everybody get over there and follow Michelle and let's, let's grow our Instagram following. Like I'm in, let's do this. Thank you so much for joining me today, Michelle, and we'll be back next week with another great episode.