Episode 030 - The Podcast About Podcasting with David Perez

In today's episode, we're heading all the way to Colombia. That's right, the beautiful weather of Colombia. And we are joined with David Perez, who is a podcast producer and host of the Audience Coach Podcast. This is a show that helps coaches and entrepreneurs, specifically in the health and wellness industry, create audiences for their business. We talked about a lot of things in regarding the podcast. So podcasts are on your radar. You'll want to take a listen. Let's get started. So David, thank you so much for joining me today to talk on the podcast about podcasts.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me, Shaun.

And I understand you are in Colombia, correct?

I am based in Colombia, Southwest Cali, Colombia.

Excellent. What's the weather like there right now?

It's always hot and sunny. Uh, it's been rainy the last few days, but still hot.

Excellent. Excellent. Now I mentioned you're going to be talking to us about podcasts. You have your own podcast and you also help people with their podcast. Tell our listeners more about that.

Okay. Uh, actually, uh, my work as a podcast editor is what came first. I've been working as a podcast editor and producer for over I think almost 4 years now. And the podcast came out as a result of like all the challenges and questions and like all the processes I've seen with the people I've worked with. So I just gather all those questions and challenges and created a podcast show to help like my clients and also other people with these kind of common issues when they are working with podcasts, both on the technical side and on the strategy side.

Excellent. So I mean, obviously starting as a podcast editor, you've seen and listened to other podcasts. What was it about podcasts that excited you or wanted you to even get into that field of editing?

I started with podcasting back when I was a teacher. I used to be an online teacher and I used to use podcasts as a way to support my students in their, in their progress. So it was like mainly an educational purpose. That's where I started, and I started editing shows for myself, and then I started doing it for other people, both because I realized, uh, well, I already had the editing skills on one side, the technical side, but I also realized the, the potential podcasts have for reaching people and, and for supporting people through their processes, in like particularly teaching and educating people in particular areas. In this case, podcasting and content marketing as well.

So what were you teaching online?

I used to be a teacher of English as a foreign language.

Excellent. So you were using podcasts, meaning you were creating podcasts to teach your students through that, or you were getting your students to create podcasts?

No, I was using the podcast as a support material because we had our platform with the contents and everything. But I was finding that we had recurrent problems and challenges in certain areas, certain topics, certain like grammar topics or things like that. So I created additional content to support my students in those particular points.

Okay. Okay. That's pretty neat.

Yeah.

Great way to utilize the technology, you know, in ways to support your teaching. So good job on that one.

Oh, thanks a lot.

So, you know, you've evolved into, you know, from, from teaching and using podcasts to editing podcasts, and now you help others with their podcast. So let's talk about, in your opinion, this is what you've seen and what you believe in, what makes a good podcast?

Okay. I will think there are two sides or probably three sides to it, Shaun. So the first part, which some people overlook a little bit, is good quality audio that makes a good podcast. Because I mean, it's like you have an office where you have your clients come in. So you don't have like a shabby office with like badly painted walls that is badly lit. You want an office that looks nice. Same thing with a podcast. You want a podcast that sounds nice. And with today's technology, you don't have to break the bank to do that. You can just buy a really affordable microphone, get a great sounding quality podcast, and that's going to also transmit some of your professionalism to your audience. So that's one thing. The other thing is great content, and when I'm speaking about great content, is content that is relevant to your audience. A common issue is that we like to talk about ourselves when we are, we are creating content, and I think that's kind of a mistake that in the end turns out to be a big mistake because the first thing we need to do is take, take ourselves out of the formula and focus on our audience. So Create content that is highly relevant to the audience. You should not be talking about yourself or about what you do, about what you like, but about what your audience needs and wants. So focus on your audience. And something I insist a lot on is speak about particular topics because I've seen some shows, for example, that go with very broad conversations, very broad topics. That's nice. But if you're, for example, in the particular case for you, Shaun, in my case, we are working with podcasts for businesses, we need to address very particular topics so they can help, the content can help the audience. If you go with a very broad conversation, it's just going to be that, a conversation. If you go with a particular topic, you're going to be tackling a particular issue and you're going to be giving the people the tools to work on those issues. And I think finally promotion, promotion is very important. So some people say content is the king. I think that doesn't work anymore. I think now promotion is the king. Just putting the podcast episodes out there is not enough. You need to be very strategic on how you promote your episodes.

Hey, you covered— I mean, there was a lot that you just said there from the quality of the audio. And I know I've worked with a lot of different clients over the years who would be amazing podcast hosts. Hosts and content creators. And I think one of the biggest things that people kind of get up against first, and because you mentioned great audio and how it's much more affordable now, is people think that, you know, it's expensive to do. You need all this studio quality equipment and everything, which we both know is not the case anymore. And I mean, here I'm in Canada and you're in Colombia, and we're talking, you know, studio quality back and forth just through using Zencastr. And cross our fingers that the recording holds in the end. But the other thing you mentioned about, about content, I think a lot of people also don't know where to start. They know their business and that's what they really think about. And they think, how do I turn my business into a podcast? Nobody wants to listen to me, that type of thing. Talk to me how you work with people about getting their concept created.

Okay. Um, the first thing is that your podcast should always be aligned with your business. Uh, we have the tendency to like reach— we want to reach a large audience and we have to reach everybody and help everybody, but that's not possible. So we need to niche down, narrow down our scope, and focus on matching the content we're going to be creating with the skills we have, okay, and how that can serve the audience. So yeah, that's going to be very important to align the podcast with your business, and you are going to have to leave a lot of areas out because probably they are not relevant to the audience or because you are not— you don't have the skills to that. So that's the first thing. For the concept, is just if you have a business, you already have constant interaction with potential clients and existing clients, and also with other, probably other pieces of, sorry, other content channels in the industry. So what you do there is just collect as much information as you can from those 3 sources: potential clients, current clients, and other channels in the industry. You're going to find out, for example, a lot of objections, like why people are not buying your services, what the objections are, misconceptions they have, common questions they have or common like a background knowledge needed in order to be able to take your services. So there you already have a lot of content. You— I'm sure you get these questions all the time when you are speaking with your, with your clients or potential clients. You get this information all the time. So what you do is to get the concept of the show is you collect this, uh, information and you design an audience persona or an audience avatar. It has so many names. So you design an audience avatar, you identify their needs, challenges, and objectives, and then you match that with your knowledge and skills. So from that intersection is where you get the concept of the show.

That makes sense. That makes sense. Now, a lot of times, you hear different podcasts, where, you know, they're, they're serious podcasts, they're long form, they're short podcasts. Do you find that there's a winning formula around what your podcast should be formatted like? Should it be short, under 20 minutes? Should it be, you know, over 30 minutes? What would you give the advice for, for that when people are wondering how long should a podcast be?

Okay, oh, this is a common question I get a lot. It depends on the content. Like, it should not be longer than it needs to be. For example, there are some topics that need a lot of in-depth discussion and they might take 60 minutes, 90 minutes, you will not be able to cover that in 20 minutes. And I'm sure if people are in need of that kind of information, they will, they will stick to the show for those 90 minutes. So they'll be fine. But in a more practical sense, we have like the most usual formats are solo episodes and interviews. So I think solo episodes are okay somewhere between 10 to 20 minutes. So you can keep the audience engaged and it's also easier for you to talk about just for 20 minutes. It's gonna be easier to get to stay in track, to stay inside the topic. If you go beyond 20 minutes, it's very easy that you start like drifting away. And when it comes to interviews, I think somewhere between 40 to 60 minutes is a good mark because on the one side you are making sure you're staying within the topic, And on the other side, it's just a practical matter. It's usually what a commute might last, for example, or like, is the time usually people spend like driving or doing other activities and also listening to shows?

That's really solid advice. Yeah. And the fact that you're— that interview style being longer, there's 2 or more people in that. So it's a lot easier to get to that length than just being there solo and talking for 20, 30 minutes trying to get it that long. Yeah. Now it's interesting with, with your background coming from the, the editing and the creation of podcasts from that side of it to now actually helping people and you've actually niched down into that health and wellness coaches. Why that industry? Why did you go that route?

It was kind of organic but also intentional. On one side, I am very interested in mindfulness, meditation, minimalism. So I already had an idea of the industry. And when I started producing podcasts for other people, I noticed like many of the people that were requiring our services were coaches in the health and wellness field, and it still is. So there is a big need in, in the health and wellness industry for sharing messages and for, for helping people out, and they've chosen podcasting as a way to do it. In particularly in the area of health and wellness, because, um, when you are trying to help somebody in these areas, it's not like you're giving a list of 10 tips or you're giving them like instructions or precise instructions to do something, but you're also showing them like stories of life transformations, stories of people who get— who have gone through, uh, tough situations and they have experience or they have used different tools or strategies or they have gone different ways to be able to get to the other side of it. So this way or this opportunity to share stories and conversations and like life experiences in the voice of the person, okay, you are not like writing it down, you are not just clipping it into small video sections, you have the full experience there. Emotions, and yeah, you have the whole narration directly from the person.

Absolutely. Now, you know, your business, your website is Audience Coach, and that's obviously pretty clear when you go to that website what you guys do. That's the name of your podcast. Are there any stories that you'd like to share about? We'll start with the, I guess, the success side of working with a client and actually helping them develop their podcast. Do you have any stories that you could share with our listeners about about how well that went and the success that they're having? Okay.

It depends on how you define success. That is a very tricky concept nowadays. But I do have two ways or two stories I can share that can reflect different definitions of what success is. For example, I have a client. Her name is Liz Moody. She is a very successful book author. Uh, she, uh, she publishes books for like healthy cooking and healthy eating. That's her main area. And she has a very large Instagram following and all that. Uh, and then she decided to start a podcast. And from the conversations we've had, she's mentioned that even though like her podcast, uh, following is not as large as the people that she has on Instagram, The engagement is so much higher and the impact is so much higher and the reactions she has gotten is like so much numerous from the podcast because people get to connect a lot with the content and the transformation it generates on their lives is a lot stronger. So even though she has a large following, the podcast is what has generated the most impact in her audience. So that is in terms, for example, of, of somebody who has a large audience. In terms of a smaller audience, I have another client who is like very, very niche. Um, she works with moms who have lost a child. It's like the name of the podcast is Grieving Moms. So, uh, of course the, the, the following here is not gonna be as large. Like, you're not gonna have thousands of followers here. But even though that small amount of people who are listening to the podcast, like somebody who has gone through that situation and who is going through grief, is going to have or is going to get such great support and such great help from this content. So it's life-changing. Even though like the, the number of listeners is not as high, the impact it's producing, it's super, super strong.

And I love how you basically started with saying, you know, it depends on how you define success. And that's the same approach that I take to podcasting myself is I don't do it to try to build this massive audience and kind of like retire on my podcast like some people think that they can do. And I think a lot of people go into it with a false sense of what they're gonna get out of it. Whereas if you're in business, I know for myself, if I do a podcast just like this one where we're talking about podcasting, this is a complimentary piece of content so that if I'm talking to a potential client down the road or even an existing client who's thinking about podcasting, I can reference this episode and be like, you know what? Check out this episode. We talked a lot about podcasting and you'll probably get a lot of value out of listening to that. And so, you really kind of have that organic reach. And I think a lot of people expect that once they put it out there, just like when, you know, people put out websites, they thought, oh, we're going to get to number one in Google instantly. There's so much volume out there. I mean, I don't even know the exact numbers, but there's thousands of podcasts that are published. So, I want to get your kind of insight or feeling about How much personality should go into the podcast to really make it as unique as possible?

Okay. How much personality should go into the podcast? I think personality is very important because that's why it's going to make your podcast different.

Absolutely.

But I think it's something you need to develop and it will go up to the stand where you feel comfortable. With it. When I started, like, I think my first episode sounds super robotic because I was kind of nervous when I was speaking into the microphone, but now it just flows naturally. It depends also on how you feel, what your values are, and who is going to resonate with this, because like you can have two people creating podcasts around the same topic, but their approaches or their tones are going to be super different.. So people are going to resonate differently. Some, some people are going to resonate better with Podcast A and some people are going to resonate better with Podcast B. So just feel free to, to be yourself. And yeah, just feel comfortable. Do it to the extent you feel comfortable because sometimes in particular, for example, when we take social media as an example, we try to push ourselves a little bit over the edge. To do stuff we don't like doing or we don't feel identified with. So just go with what feels best for you.

And what would you say are kind of the things that you should avoid? Maybe the top 3 things you shouldn't do when trying to launch a podcast?

Okay. I will say first, don't think short term. That's the first thing. You're not going to get a lot of sales or conversions or leads from a podcast after 2 or 3 months. Months. This is a long-term game. A podcast is a means to an end. It's not an end in itself, uh, and it's, it's a continuum. It's part of your business. It should exist as long as your business exists. It's not like something that is gonna, is gonna magically convert or turn your business into this money-making machine. It takes time to build an audience. It's not a matter of like the numbers and the cashing, cashing. It's a matter of building relationships and trust with your audience. So that's the first thing. Don't think short-term, think about long-term and building relationships. Uh, the second is focus.

Focus.

Uh, we cannot be vanilla. We cannot be everything for everybody. There are so many topics. In my case, like, we do research for, for content, and there are so many topics or so many ideas that look great and look super interesting, but we just Drop them because they are not relevant to our audience. So focus on a topic, focus on an audience, and try to help them as much as you can. Okay, that's the other thing, focus. And I will say the third thing is, the other thing to avoid is ignoring your audio quality. I've listened to so many podcast shows I mean, I just cannot engage or cannot connect with the show because it's hard for me to understand what they're saying. The audio is so echoey or like it clips or is— I mean, it's bad quality and that affects the engagement. Not only in podcasts, it even happens in video. Like a video with poor audio quality will have lower engagement than a video that has better audio quality. Like, you know, on a video you can have good audio and bad quality of the image and the engagement will be good. But if you had excellent image and poor audio quality, the engagement will be bad. Same thing, or even more evident, is going to happen with podcasting. So you need to pay good attention to your audio quality.

It's funny that you said that at the end because I was just— that was my follow-up to this, was I was going to say the exact same thing. My background is in video production. That's what I went to school for. And, you know, Even though it's a visual means, audio is of a huge importance and you hit it right on the head there. I mean, people will get by with bad video and great audio versus the other way around.

Absolutely. Yes, that's absolutely true.

Now, I notice here on your website, I'm on there and one of your posts there is talking about where to get music for your podcast. Yeah. What kind of an approach do you take for trying to find that music? I know in video, music is really like the main thing. Like you can really get a sense of the feel and the flow and the vibe of a video by the music. And the same thing I think is absolutely true in a podcast.

Okay, I always suggest to use music that is upbeat, okay? Something really funky, pop, funk, I think are genres that work very well. Sometimes rock, but it ends up being a matter of like the subjective preference of the client. Like, some of them just go with something like really heavy metal. Some of them prefer to go with something that is like very cinematic, like very epic. Uh, so in the end, it depends on the, on the client. But I think, uh, it should be upbeat. Like, you listen to the— like, the listeners start listening to the episode and they instantly get invaded with this, uh, super energetic and happy vibe that will make them connect to the show. Because when we are creating content, it's not just the information we're sharing, it's also the emotional connection we are establishing, the rapport. That's why, as we mentioned a moment ago, personality is going to be very important, and also the tone of the music and the effects that you add into the show.

Absolutely. And I think personally, when I'm listening to a podcast, the one thing that I think makes the episode stand out is that first like 30 to 60 seconds of the show. And I think a lot of people get caught up, especially if they don't have the experience in doing it, of doing a whole introduction every time about who they are and what the show is all about. And in reality, I mean, we binge consume episodes. You know, if you're checking out a new podcast and it's good, you're going to go from episode to episode. Episode, you know, and take me in more than one. So I think that idea of really getting that hook, you know, and in marketing, it's all about catching that attention. Yeah, there, and your podcast should have that same kind of vibe.

For example, I am a heavy metal guy. I listen to really hard, like really, really hard metal music. But for the podcast show, I picked something that was like kind of funky, because when I listen to it, it's like, it's catchy, it immediately gets my attention. And gives me a happy vibe.

Yeah, absolutely. Now I noticed, you know, we're going to put a link to the resources page on your website here, which you give away some free and some paid resources. But what are your, I guess, favorite tools for creating podcasts or getting clients to create podcasts, whether it's the recording side or the editing? Want to share some of those with our listeners?

Okay, my favorite tools, uh, in terms of microphones, uh, there are like— if you are a first-time podcaster, you don't need to spend a lot on microphones. I think around $100 would be just fine. There is a mic— there are two microphones in which you do not need anything else, just the mic and a USB cable. You plug it into the computer, that's it. One of them is the ATR2100, and the other one is the Samsung Q2U. They will give you awesome audio quality, great audio quality for cheap because they are quite cheap and they're super easy to use. You don't need to use additional equipment or audio interfaces or anything. No, you don't need anything like that. Just get the microphone and plug it to your computer via USB and that's it. For recording, when it comes to software, I recommend Zencastr. That's something I use. I think it's It's a very good tool. It's easy to use. It will give you great audio quality. I know a lot of people like using Zoom. That's a bad idea. I cry. I cry every time we have to edit an interview that was recorded with Zoom because even though you have a great mic, Zoom compresses the audio a lot. So you get to lose a lot of the audio quality, a lot of the frequencies, a lot of the nice things. Yeah, it's not good to use Zoom. And there is also the hosting side, which is where you get to upload your podcast audio. And that hosting is which the one that communicates with iTunes and Spotify and all these platforms. In terms of hosting, there is Libsyn, which is very popular, Libsyn.com. And the other one, which is the one we use, is Podbean.com. These ones are super stable, very good customer service, the pricing is great, very user-friendly, and the features are like super complete.

Those are some great tools, and we'll put links to those in the show notes. Now, my last question before we wrap up here, which came to my mind while you were talking about where you're hosting it, do you think there's a benefit behind, you know, once you've got your shows Posted, and a lot of those services give you hosted versions to, to see that, to listen to the shows, to drive traffic to your show on one of the directories like iTunes or Spotify, or should you be driving them to listen to them on your website? What's your opinion on that?

I think you should drive them to subscribe on these platforms. You should drive them to subscribe on iTunes or to subscribe on Spotify or whether or whatever they use. At the moment, about 80% of every podcast listeners come from iTunes. Like if you have 100, 80 out of 100 will come from iTunes. So it's very important that people subscribe there. And whenever you push or you publish a new episode, they are going to get the notification and get people there. In the end, I think you should also complement this with an email marketing strategy because like people go to the website, they can listen to an episode and they. They can disappear. Same with iTunes or Spotify. They listen to an episode and they just disappear. You should complement this strategy with an email marketing strategy so people get to listen to the show and then subscribe to your email list because that's where you have the most control. iTunes might change, Spotify might change, their terms of service might change, something might happen. For example, just this week iTunes changed something in their backend, so a lot of podcast episodes did not appear on the platform, or some of them disappeared, or some of them took longer to appear. So it's a lot of things out of our control. Lots of clients complaining, of course. So it's better if you have a little bit more control. So you always complement that with an email marketing strategy.

Great advice. Great solid advice. Well, David, thank you so much for sharing this. Your knowledge and your experience with us. And people can find you online at audiencecoach.com. We'll put the links to that in the show notes as well.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Shaun.

It was a great pleasure. Excellent. Same here. And I'm very envious of the wonderful weather you're having there. Oh yes, I'm sure. All right, take care.