Expert Conversation: Stop Making Content Creation Complex

Hannah, this is going to be a great conversation because we're going to be diving into social media today. I know it's everywhere, everybody's talking about social media. You know, you got the, the people that hate it, the people that love it, but when it comes down to the brass tacks with, with how do you grow your business with social media, the biggest hang-up is people feel it's too complex. They have to be doing so much and they don't have the time to do it, and you're here to debunk that myth that it doesn't have to be that complex. Correct?

Exactly. I'm excited to be here.

Excellent. So you are with Ugly Mug Marketing?

Yes.

I love the name. Where did that come, come from, if you know that story?

Yes, I do know that story. So our owner and founder, Wayne Mullins, he founded Ugly Mug Marketing, I believe now we're 13 years old. We develop websites, do social media marketing. And when he was thinking of a name for his company, he wanted something that was unique, something that was gonna stand out, something that people were gonna remember, something that was a little out of the box. And David Ogilvy, who's a very famous marketer, that's where he got the name from. So David Ogilvy once said something along the lines of, I'm not gonna try and quote it exactly, but I would much rather have an ugly ad that gets results rather than a pretty ad that does nothing. So that's where ugly comes from. Now the mug part, people come into our office and they look at our team and they're like, you guys aren't ugly. There aren't any ugly mugs in here. We also get asked a lot, do we sell coffee mugs? We do not, but we do have Ugly Mug branded coffee mugs. And I like to think that he added mug to it because everyone in our office drinks coffee or tea. So that's the story behind the name Ugly Mug Marketing.

That's right, great story, great name. Now, How do we, how do we really leverage social media, right? I think that's the underlying tone of what I want to get to with this episode is how do we as a business owner utilize it properly so that we're not, you know, chained to our computers making content 24/7. We're not doing the, the Gary Vaynerchuk 1,000 pieces of content a day type of thing. Because it's unrealistic.

Yeah, absolutely. And that is one of the biggest things that I preach to either consulting clients or private clients that we're working with is consistency creates miracles. It does not have to be 1,000 pieces of content. It does not have to be 5 posts a day. It can be 5 posts a week. It can be 2 posts a week. It can be 3 posts a week. Whatever is realistic for you and for your business and whatever season of your business that you're in, Be consistent, show up for your people consistently. And more importantly, and I guess to go along with that, is set a goal, set a realistic goal for yourself. Maybe right now in your business, you're a solopreneur and you are the head of finances, you're the CEO, you're the creative director, you're the photographer, you're still a mom, a dad, you know, you're an aunt, you're an uncle, you're still wearing all of these different hats. And it can be really hard to your point to focus. Like there's so much to do. There's so many different platforms to be on. So be consistent, set a realistic goal of how often can you show up on said platform? Do you want to show up in stories? Do you want to show up just in a normal feed post? And then I guess as you're thinking about those things too, it's important to think about where are you going to get the most bang for your buck? And your buck might not really be your money if you're not into investing in the advertising piece yet, your, your time, right, is so valuable and it's worth so much when you're an entrepreneur or small business owner. And so think about where you want to invest your time and that is going to come into play when you're thinking about where is my target audience hanging out? Are they hanging out on Instagram? Are they hanging out on TikTok? Are they hanging out on LinkedIn? Where are the majority of my people? Now when TikTok came out, everyone was like, we've all gotta flock to TikTok. You know, we've all, we're all leaving Facebook or we're all leaving Instagram, we're going to TikTok. And I believe it's true that there is a wide range of demographics that are spending time on TikTok, right? But if you were to look at the majority of the people that are spending time on TikTok, I would be willing to bet that, you know, if I'm an HVAC company and I'm trying to target people who are between the ages of, you know, 40 to 65 and up to buy a new system for their home, they're probably not spending time on TikTok, right? So where can I get the most bang for my buck as far as investing my time and energy in developing content for that platform? Or if I'm going to run ads, where do I actually want to spend my money? Because you don't have to be on all the platforms. And I think that's another part of the myth too, right? We don't have to be on TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, doing all the things out here doing the most. You need to pick the one that's the most realistic for you right now. The one that where the place where the majority of your people are hanging out at. And you need to be able to set, show up consistently for those people. Again, once a week, twice a week, showing up once in stories, making an Instagram reel, whatever is realistic for you right now, that consistency is really going to create the miracles.

Great advice. What's your take on repurposing content? So, you know, you don't make it once, put it out there and kind of forget it, that you could reuse it. You know, has that been part of strategy that you've used before?

Absolutely. We are all about if it's working, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every month. We work with clients and we provide a monthly strategy for them. So whether that's just organic content that's living on their page or an ad that's running, hey, if the ad is running well in June, why would we shut it off in July? Let's keep utilizing that. Can we tweak a headline on that and post the same post or run the same ad? Can we switch out the image and test and see which one people people are more responsive to? Can we change the opening headline on the copy itself to see if that hooks people better to get them to keep reading? I'm all about repurposing content because people see so much every single day, and especially when it comes to organic content, on average, only 2.5% of people who see your Facebook post or who like your Facebook page are even going to see that Facebook post. And I would believe that that's true on Instagram as well. I don't know the specific, specific statistics on that, but I would believe it is around that number as well. And so repurposing your content is great because it gives it more exposure, more opportunity to get in front of people. And again, making those small tweaks here and there. I mean, we've run essentially the same ad for our HVAC client for the past 2 years, and all we've done is tweak and split test headlines and tweak and split test headline openings and the graphic itself. The body of it, the meat and potatoes of the ad itself really has not changed that much and it's been successful and it's continued to generate leads for their business.

Yeah, true test that, you know, if it works, don't change it, right?

Exactly.

Try to make it better, right?

Yes, we're always trying to beat last month. We're like, all right, this ad generated 20 leads, that's great. We reached the client's goal, they wanted 20 leads, but Can we get to 21? Can we get to 25? Can we— if their ad spend is only $100 for this ad, can we get more leads for that $100? You know, how can we optimize it to get the best results possible?

Now, you've run over 4,000 social media campaigns. What have you taken away or learned from that that really we could just extract out of you right now and be like, wow, like, this has saved me? 4,000 campaigns that I had to run to learn this. What can you give us from that?

Yes. Well, gosh, one thing, you know, it's not a tip or trick, but Facebook is changing every single day. There is always a beta version of something. You've randomly been selected to have this new user experience. It looks different than your friend down the business or the other person in your focus group or whatever it may be. Gosh, it's just always changing. And so it's really important to be subscribed to the Facebook business email alerts. I know sometimes they're annoying, but they really do. I think I personally feel like they give you a pretty good heads up on, hey, this change is coming soon, here's how you can prepare for it. Or those pesky little bars up at the top when you go into your ad account, if your business is running ads that say, hey, new change coming, don't just X out of that. Make sure you actually read that because that can be some really helpful information. I know there's one that I have right now that says some audiences are going to be removed soon. It's like, all right, well, what are those audiences? For one of our clients in particular, the ability to target people who are interested in certain causes or nonprofit organizations, that impacted them significantly. We can no longer target people who are interested in American Cancer Society or breast cancer awareness or things of that nature. So we had to figure out, all right, how do we utilize the audience that we've built or create lookalike audiences of people who like our page or who have engaged with our content or watched our videos? That has been kind of a workaround to get around that. But tip, don't ignore those little alerts from Facebook. Make sure you're paying attention to those. I think the other thing for me too is Facebook's goal at the end of the day, whether you agree with it or not, is to get people, and honestly it's not just Facebook, it's any social media, is to get people to spend more time on the platform. So the more that your business can utilize the tools that are already available there within Ads Manager or within Business Suite or Meta Suite, Suite or Creator Studio or the 5,000 different resources that are available within Facebook and Instagram, utilize those. They're going to reward you in the algorithm for utilizing those tools. One massive thing that I've learned, especially when it comes to lead generation for our clients, whether we're trying to send them a lead to get a quote on a new HVAC system or get people onto an email list, is when we drive people to an actual lead generation form, that's designed through Facebook versus trying to run a conversion campaign for someone to fill out that exact same information, but on our website, the cost per lead for using the lead generation form is always in our experience, far better. It's gonna be a lower cost per lead than driving people to the website. And that's just what we've learned over time. But that really speaks to, hey, we're keeping people on the platform. We're not pushing them away and taking them to our website or to our client's website or to a third-party site to be able to capture that information. We're utilizing those lead generation forms. Now, the thing with those lead generation forms on Facebook is people are like, "Ugh, but it's such a hassle." Then you gotta log into Facebook, you gotta go download your leads and then upload them into, you know, your Mailchimp account or your Constant Contact or, send them to your team and you gotta go in there every day and make sure you don't double send people leads. And one way that we avoid that, the busy work in the midst of trying to get those leads is we use Zapier, which is an amazing automation tool that I feel like it can do anything. It can connect just about any tool to the next tool, to the CRM, to your email marketing services. That is one thing that has saved us tremendously is we're like, hey, we can get this cheaper cost per lead, by using the lead generation form. But hey, let's use Zapier so that every time a lead comes in, it sends our client an alert. Hey, you got a new lead. You guys can follow up with this person, or it automatically takes that lead and puts them into Mailchimp. And then we've got a sequence in Mailchimp for, for those people now to get nurtured over time before they actually purchase our product or service or our client's product or service. So I think those are some of my biggest takeaways from, you know, the 4,000+ campaigns that I've launched. It's been fun though to learn, and we're not throwing spaghetti at the wall, you know, we're looking at the data. So don't ignore the data that you're getting the opportunity to see there in Ads Manager, just strictly by looking at your organic posts and what people are most responsive to, 'cause that'll give you a little key on what things or what types of content to repurpose or reshare or themes that you can share in the future too.

Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned the lead gen forms. I've used that a lot, not only in my stuff, but with other clients as well. And the one thing that I like about it more than sending to another page is the fact that you get a truer data set, meaning most likely the email address and the phone number that is in there, which is linked to their Facebook account, is legit and real. So there's two points with that is the fact that you're not making them have to type it in again, Yes, it autofills when they click on it, right? So better, better user experience. And using Zapier, a great thing, a great way to connect that. You can just push it over to a Google Sheet or anything like that, or even into another software CRM, which is excellent. Now, what should people avoid doing? What are the big no-nos that are currently out there right now that people— you see people probably doing that you're like, that's probably hurting you more than it's benefiting you?

Yeah, I see a lot of people just selling, selling, selling, selling, selling. They're not actually using social media for what it was intended for, which is building relationships. If you want to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, put a billboard up, have a radio advertisement, run a television ad. Those are the places where you sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, because you don't get the interaction with the prospect or with the customer or with the person who already likes your page and is a fan of you, but maybe hasn't actually bought anything yet. Social media is so unique because we can have dialogue with our customers. We can have an opportunity to go and comment on their stuff and not just wait for them to interact and comment on our stuff, right? We can actually talk to them in the DMs. We can actually create something that's going to relate to them and speak to their day-to-day. One of our clients, they are a coffee shop. And some of my favorite ads that we run during the school year is, hey, before you get the kids to school, or maybe after you get out of the carpool line, drive through, you know, cruise through the drive-through and grab a snack with your kiddos and drop a picture in the comments below of you and your kids enjoying your after-school snack or after-school coffee or, you know, milkshake or whatever it may be. Those are some of my most favorite campaigns because it's an opportunity to really get to know our customers better. Hey, we're speaking to you while you're a mom, while you're in the carpool line, which I'm not a mom myself, but from what I hear other moms who are picking up and dropping their kids off at school or dads too, they're like, yep, sitting in the carpool line, you know, just waiting for my kid to get out of school. That's something that's relatable to them. And we get to build that connection and tell them, oh my gosh, we love this picture. That's so great. They have the opportunity to tag us in their posts. And again, we get to further build that relationship and that connection and those touchpoints, right? Not enough people are going and spending time on their customers' pages too. So not only are they not creating content that's actually helping them build that relationship, they're not taking time to go on their customers' pages. And there's a great book written by Jeff Henderson called Know What You're For. And in the book, he talks about the importance of companies going and spending time on their customers' pages and interacting with them in that way because it makes the customer feel so incredibly special. He uses a couple of different examples in the book. One of them is the company Chubbies. When you go to Chubbies, you know, they're a swimsuit company, like lifestyle kind of brand. And one thing that you'll notice when you go to the Chubbies Instagram page, for example, is you're not going to see a ton of styled shoot photos. You're mostly going to see photos of actual customers that own Chubbies that have taken pictures with them and their kids wearing the matching swim trunks or the matching swimsuits or them on vacation in Jamaica, you know, on their honeymoon, you know, rocking those fun bright colored swim trunks or swimsuit with their spouse. And I think that's so incredibly powerful because they're actually taking that content and they're repurposing it on their page. So now, hey, that saved me some money. I don't have to have umpteen million styled shoots this year, right? But it also makes that customer feel so incredibly special. And when that post is made on the page and they tag the customer on there too, I would say there's about a 99% chance that that customer is then gonna go and share that on their Instagram story, be like, oh my gosh, everyone, look, Chubby shared my picture from my honeymoon on their page.. And that's just free advertising there. Right. And it's a great opportunity to further that relationship. Not enough companies are doing that. I think, I think people are getting tired of seeing styled shoots. I think people are getting tired of seeing perfect, perfectly aesthetically pleasing layouts of clothes or models. They want to see real people in the clothes and in the images. You know, they want to see their neighbor Bobby from down the street. You know, they want to see their dog in the Chewy ads. You know, they don't want to see something that's highly curated. They want to see things that are more organic. And I think businesses really need to take advantage of that opportunity. There's so much content out there, probably of umpteen million different brands, of their fans and evangelists, their customers, their evangelists, their people who rant and rave about their brand. There's probably so much content out there that they could get by months without ever having to do another styled shoot again.

Absolutely. And you just think of the, you know, the, the ease of you, you know, as a company, as a brand, to not have to think of the cost of, of going out and doing these styled shoots and professional photo shoots and video shoots that, you know, you, if you embrace that communication and that conversation and start to just talk to your clients, like, it's, it's amazing. And I loved your idea of like the coffee shop You know, when you drop your kids off at school, you know, I think a lot of people would think of something like that and like, well, what about all the other people that are my potential customers who aren't parents, right? And you look at, you know, that small percentage of people on your fan base that might see your post. You know, if, if I wasn't a parent, which I am, but if I saw that, it wouldn't turn me off. I'd be like, this company is actually like talking to their clients and, you know, maybe they'll be one for me, right? So I think, yeah, that's something to really take from that is You cannot be everything to everyone all the time.

Correct. Correct. And speaking to parents doesn't mean you don't speak to other people like you were just saying throughout the course of the month. You know, you might not just— there might not be just one customer avatar for you. There might be multiple customer avatars that you're speaking to and creating content around. And it might be very seasonal, like speaking to the carpool mom. We're really only talking to her during the school year. We're still relating to her and talking to her throughout the summer too. But that type of language in particular, that's that's only happening through the school year. And then who else can we speak to during the summer who might have more free time or might have more time to come and sit and visit with a friend on a Saturday morning, you know, or a Bible study group getting together, hey, come and have Bible study here, you know, as a new location instead of so-and-so's house. You know, it's just, it's fun. It's fun to really get to know your customers, get to know what's happening in their lives outside of your business so that you can better speak to them.

Now, what kind of tips can you give us for how do you start the process of thinking about the type of content that you wanna create?

Yeah, it's so awesome. I just did a whole webinar on this. We have a webinar that we've been promoting called How to Create 3 Months of Content in 1 Day. And there's 3 steps to that. I won't dive in and give you the whole presentation right now.

Yeah, no, go check out the webinar. We'll put the link back to it.

Yeah, yeah, we can definitely link to the webinar in the show notes, but Step number 1 is planning. And when we're planning, we have to have that goal in mind, like I mentioned earlier. So how often do I want to post per week? And can I, can I create my content all in one day? Which the answer is yes, you can for an entire month or for 2 months or heck for even 3 months. And so my goal, let's say my goal is I'm going to post 3 times a week. So I'm going to post every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm going to show up for my people. I'm going to do what I can. So So now that I have that goal, I say, okay, what are some different categories that I can build content around? Because when you think about posting for an entire month, it's like, oh my gosh, that's 30 posts. Okay, now we're just down to like 12 posts a month. Okay, we can do this every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We're going to do, it's about 12 posts a month. So now if I break it down and say on Mondays I'm going to talk about this, on Wednesdays I'm going to talk about this, and on Fridays I'm going to talk about this. Okay, that makes it a little bit even more digestible. It's like, all right, my Monday content, I only need 4 posts around that theme or in that category. Wednesdays, I only need 4 posts in that theme or in that category. Fridays, I only need 4 posts in that category or in that theme. Just makes it a little bit easier and less intimidating when we're entering into the planning process. So establish that goal. And determine what days you're going to post. And then let's assign some themes to those days. So for one of my clients, Glaston, et cetera, they sell, they do window tinting, lift kits, truck accessories, vehicle accessories. They can put a new hitch on the back of your car if you're doing a cross-country road trip and towing a trailer. For them, our most important categories are number 1, recent work. So we take photos of, any and every vehicle that leaves the shop, whether they just got tint done or they came in and we did a whole— just, we just took the rig to the next level. So like a Jeep comes in and we're putting new tires and we're putting a winch on the front and lift kits and side steps and new lights and all that fun stuff. We're taking photos of these and highlighting all of that, and we're posting that on Mondays. So it doesn't matter if that was in the shop 2 weeks ago or it left the shop today, um, We can take all of those photos and then just save those for every Monday for the next 3 months. So that's easy, right? We can take those photos, we can edit them on our phones using the Apple presets, or we can download fun apps like Tezza or other, uh, Lightroom and download filters and whatnot. But then we're like, okay, Wednesdays, what are we going to post on Wednesdays? Maybe on Wednesdays we actually feature a service that we offer. So on Wednesdays, we're specifically promoting window tint, and the call to action is, hey, we're in Louisiana, it's super hot, and it's time to get your windows tinted. Don't get in your car and melt, you know. Don't, don't be the person who doesn't have the automatic car starter. So that might be another one ad that we run. Hey, get an automatic car starter so you can start your car so it's not super hot after a long day's work. You're not going and sitting in your black car with your black leather seats and just melting away, right? You know, again, speaking and being really relatable. What are those key products or services that we're going to focus on? And then the last category is educational content. So, hey, did you guys know that you need, depending on what you're towing, you need a certain type of hitch or, and it can only, only has capacity for so many pounds. Or, hey, did you guys know that there are a ton of different types of truck bed covers? Did you know that there are electric bed covers where you get a little remote for in your car and your bed cover can just slide on the back of your truck? Or there's foldable ones so you can kind of fold it up and manually have to do it. Do you know what the benefits are of these different bed covers? Or, hey, there are different benefits to certain types of tires on your vehicle as well. Giving some educational content and the purpose of that is to position yourself as an expert. You want your customers to trust you. And now keep in mind, of those 3 posts that are going out in a week, only 1 of them is selling. Like, only 1 of them is truly selling. You could argue that the recent work post is also selling because that's a form of social proof, right? We're showing off work that we've done. People are nodding their head and saying, "Oh yeah, that Jeep, that looks awesome. And you know what? I have a Jeep and I like to go off-roading. You know what? I need to go there and get a winch and get some new tires." tires and get some side steps and whatever added to my vehicle. You know, you could argue that that's selling, but the call to action is just for us to put at the bottom of that, hey, any Jeep fans out there? Tell me what you think. You know, do you like this? Do you have a Jeep? Show us a picture of your Jeep in the comments below. Just being really, really engaging with our target audience. So those 3 categories, those can either stay the same for all 3 months based on our goals. Or they might change. We might, we might say, hey, you know, every Wednesday we are just solely going to highlight tint. We need to sell tint. It's that season. It's hot. It's summer. It's a big windows tinting time. But then maybe as we go into August, for them, they switch to more of a, hey, this is the last trip, family vacation opportunity before kiddos go back to school. So we're pushing, you know, The cargo holders, you know, for when you go on that big vacation and everyone is in the car and you can't fit everybody in the car and all the luggage and the beach toys and all that stuff. Hey, you might need that. Or hey, you might want to buy a radar detector. Or hey, you might need a new hitch if you just bought a camper and you're towing that across the US or you're towing that to the campsite, you know, for one last, you know, hurrah with the family. You know, we shift what specifically goes in that category, but the category itself doesn't ever really change. And again, it's just a different perspective. It's not the pressure of, hey, you know, that other vehicle accessory company is posting 17 times a day. How are they doing that? What are they doing? No, I have my goal. It's 3 times a week. My categories are recent work, product or spot, product or service spotlight, and educational content. And I'm going to fill content into each of those buckets. And you'll be amazed that once you have that new perspective, especially as a solopreneur or small business owner, maybe you're just, you know, a team of 5 people, 3 people, 2 people, you know, it's amazing when you start brainstorming what those different categories could be for your business. It's amazing what you'll think of and be like, oh, 'Oh, we could talk about that. I bet people don't know about that, but they might be curious.' Or, 'Hey, you know what? A lot of people ask us this question when they come into the store. How can we create content around that? Are there multiple forms of content that we can create?' So I think that perspective just really helps our clients when we're working with them on consulting, but also helps me as the marketer when I'm feeling like, 'Man, I'm running out of ideas of things to talk about, about lift kits.' Well, I mean, I can say that it worked on me because I'm sitting here listening to you talk and I'm like, I need to go up, look up like electric bed covers because I hate folding mine out.

But I'm like, I didn't even know that existed.

Yes, they're so cool.

I would have seen that and I would have been like, huh. But then I'm like, I could do the research or I could just call this company that just posted about it because they obviously do it. Yeah, right. So that's how that works, right? You didn't say come buy it from us, you just educated us about that product that exists.

Yeah, exactly.

Excellent. So Hannah, Ugly Mug Marketing, is there a specific type of client that you work the best with or that you're trying to attract?

Yes. So at Ugly Mug, we really focus on small businesses. We are— I think we are very well priced for our services. People are paying for an experience with us. We are all about making sure that our customers feel like we care about them, we are committed to helping them reach their goals. There's just a certain level of service that comes along with that. So for us, when we're working with people, our first job is to establish a goal. If your goal is simply, I just want more brand awareness, which a lot of people come to us with at first, We're like, that's great. We're going to get brand awareness by, you know, creating content. That's just something that's going to be a byproduct of what we're doing. But what is your actual goal? Our intention is to sit down and if people are willing to share financial goals with us for the month, for the quarter, for the week, for the year, we want to have a full understanding of what that looks like for any business, whether they're just getting started or they've been in business for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years. It's important for us to know what those numbers are so that we can measure if what we're doing is actually scaling their business and helping them get to the next level. I don't want someone to hire us and for them to stay consistent in revenue where they've always been. I'm trying to help you make more money, right? When people come to us, that's what they want to do. They want to make more money and that's okay. And so we have to establish what are the goals going to be? Is it more phone calls? Is it more leads coming in? Is it growing your email list so that we can start nurturing those people in a funnel and get them to actually purchase product? Is it running a conversion campaign to go to your e-commerce store? At the end of your contract, whenever someone signs a contract with us, it's either 3 months or 6 months. I say, at the end of 6 months, what would you like to look back on and say, wow, we did it, guys, we made it, we took the business to the next level, we accomplished X, Y, and Z? What would need to be true in order for you to stay with us month 7, month 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. That's what's most important to me. If I don't have a measuring stick of what success looks like and we're not on the same page with what the goal is, you're probably going to fire me because you're going to say, oh, well, you didn't do this or we didn't do that. No, I like very, very measurable, tangible goals. So a lot of what we try to do is tied back to a number and it's not tied back to a vanity metric. And a vanity metric, I would say, Oftentimes is impressions, total amount of likes, total amount of comments. No, I want to know how many leads came in, but also more importantly, how much money did each of those leads generate and how many of those leads actually converted? And then we can do some backwards math to say, all right, if we're at a 20% conversion rate, how many more leads do we need to get in order to get you to X amount of dollars in revenue? You know, we're constantly looking at it from a more data— it's a more data-driven approach. I think when people come to us, they're like, you're going to make me really beautiful posts and you're going to make me really lovely Instagram Reels that are going to get millions of views. And we might do that. But what I can tell you that we're going to strive for is actually more money in your pocket, more money in the cash register, more butts in seats in your restaurant, more, you know, That's what I'm, that's what I'm aiming for. So we work best with small businesses and particularly people who maybe already have a goal set in place, but for people who are open also to setting a goal and being helping us get really specific on who their target audience is and what they're trying to accomplish this year or this quarter.

Absolutely. Hannah, the information you gave in this 32 minutes we've spent together has been pure gold. And I thank you so much for that. We'll get a link to that webinar that you mentioned. I'll put it in the notes, link to the website uglybugmarketing.com. It's been a true pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

Yes, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be on the show.