#359: Marketing Minute: The Power of Collaborations with Jess Kotzer

Welcome to Kingdom Writers, where we help equip and empower Christian writers of all genres to share your unique gifts with the world. We're your hosts, C.J. and Shelley Hitz.

This podcast is filled with spiritual encouragement as well as prayers to help you overcome the resistance you face as a writer. Your story matters.

In this episode of the Marketing Minute, I wanted to share an interview that.

I did with Jess Kotzer for her.

Event, Sell with Collabs. Sell with Collabs is going to be an incredible event that you can attend for free. And then there's a bundle that you can get with tons of great content in it, including my toolkit all about getting booked on podcast interviews.

You'll be able to get that included with the bundle. So check out the link, all the.

Information in the show notes below or go to trainingauthors.com sellwithcollabs to find out all about this amazing event. But Jess interviewed me about the power of collaborations and some of the ways.

That I have seen it being used in my life as an author, as a business owner.

And so I hope that you enjoy this episode.

I'm here with Shelley Hitz, who is a huge advocate for authors and runs tons of collaborative events, everything from cross promotions to large scale summits. And Shelley, I would love to talk to you today to address author specifically. And before we get into some pros for collaboration and different types of collaborations, let's start right off the bat with some problems. What are some problems or a problem that you see in the collaboration space and what are some tips that you have to avoid or overcome them?

Yeah, and Jess, I just have loved getting to know you and you're just, you practice what you teach. So I love that. I really enjoyed collaborating with you and having you as a speaker on our last big event. But I think one of the problems, especially for authors that I've seen and I've been mentoring writers for 11 years, you know, it's been a long time but or 12 years but is waiting for the invitation to come. So, you know, waiting for that invitation to come instead of initiating a connection. And so I think sometimes authors are like, oh, I want these opportunities and I want to be, you know, interviewed and on podcasts and doing these things and yet just sitting and waiting for those opportunities to come to them instead of putting together a plan and initiating them themselves.

Yeah, that's good. So the plan, what's involved with the plan? Is it reaching out and just saying hey.

Yeah.

For me I work mostly with faith based authors, so I Always recommend starting in prayer if you're not faith based. You know, you can just start with a time of just journaling and, you know, realizing like, what is the goal that you have? What is it that you really want to accomplish with this? And then who is it that you would really want to be working with? Like, not just what's in it for me, but do I really enjoy this person? Because that's going to make the collaboration, you know, even better than just forcing yourself, you know, to, to connect with people just because it might be, quote, unquote, good for, you know, your business or your book or, you know, whatever else you're doing, but really just sitting down and kind of brainstorming. I like to do a brain dump. So brainstorming and doing a brain dump, we call them business meetings with God. But you basically are just, you know, you're just writing out all the things and the main things is what is your goal and who is it that you really want to work with? And you know, that way you can know that as you start to put together a list of people that you could potentially contact.

Okay, so you kind of touched on this a little bit. But are there any other ways that you're different when it comes to collaboration? What's different about the way you do it and how can others implement it?

I started collaborations way back in the day when I was first starting my online business. And I just really wasn't afraid to reach out to some of the big names. And my very first collaborative event, I think it was maybe 2012, so 10 years ago, and it was a Facebook marketing for authors. Telesummit. Do you remember Telesummits? And I at the time was a no.1 in the space. Nobody knew about me. I had this little website, but I just, I wasn't afraid to reach out to all the people who were coming up everywhere who had the bigger platforms at that time. And you know what was amazing is they almost all said yes. And that was how I first grew my whole business, helping to mentor writers was by hosting that event, not being afraid because nobody knew who I was, but and reaching out to the big names. And so I think just, you know, taking those steps and taking the action, even when it feels a little bit scary. I don't know if that's different, but I just think that's something that I do regularly and that has really helped grow my business.

Well, you do throw an amazing summit and I think a lot of authors are averse to the work involved or wouldn't even know where to start. So do you have a tip for something to Google or just a starting point for information on how to do it?

Yeah. So success leaves clues. I was part of a program called Summit in a Box, and I was able to follow their system, their templates, all of those things, you know, so when you, when you, you're able to follow someone that has done what you want to want to do, you're going to save your time, you know, a lot. But, you know, I put together like a toolkit for pitching to podcasts, you know, if you want to get on podcast interviews. That's something that I put together. And what, what I like to do is I will create kind of like a project plan. And it's almost like you have a project manager. And so there's like the steps of this is step one, this is step two, this is step three. This is the order that, you know, you, you need to do it in. That I recommend. And then I have a spreadsheet or Excel or something that you can kind of keep track of your results and your, your actions and your results. And then I usually include templates. So, you know, what do you say? Like, what do you. How do you even start, you know, you know, these collaborations? And so in some of my toolkits and some of the trainings that I've created, I put together those templates as well. So you're not starting with a blank page. But you don't have to learn from me. There's so many people out there teaching this. Jess is a great person as well. She has some great trainings on this. But I just, I think if you want to shortcut your time and increase your success, it's really helpful to connect with someone who's done this and not start from scratch.

Okay, so I know you've been at this since 2012. I'm curious, who would you consider your dream collaboration partner?

You know, at this point, I think it's someone who really serves my similar audience and they have incredible value to share. That was one of the reasons I reached out to you. I mean, our audience, audiences are actually a little bit different, but I knew you had so much value to share. My last summit was on collaborations, and so I knew you had a lot of really great information to share, but typically it's somebody who is faith based and who serves my audience. And to be honest, I have gotten burned several times with collaborations, and so now I'm not looking for the person with the biggest audience. To be honest, I'm Looking for someone who is real, authentic, who I connect with and who will actually like, promote, you know, and promote the thing we're doing together. You know, I've had people that I've had, I've hosted three online conferences in the last, we call them conferences instead of summits, but conferences in the last year and a half and there have been a few people that came and they had huge audiences that would have been similar to mine, but they just didn't promote and they even signed contracts saying they would promote. And that really is hard, you know, when you want it to be a good collaboration and then it doesn't. But so my dream partner is someone who has the heart, you know, and you know, they do have the audience but you know, they will actually follow through and do their part of it as well.

Something I've learned since I started looking for and approaching promotional partners is that it's so much nicer, it feels so much better to work with less people who you love and who love you. And it's a no brainer. It's, it's almost effortless for them to promote you because they're going to talk about you either way. I have a friend who's a creativity coach. She has no list. She doesn't have a lead magnet yet. But I'm just waiting for her to be ready because I know she delivers value and in the meantime she's connecting me to people with bigger audiences than me, who she happens to know. So there's the inner circle that we all have as well. So just because someone doesn't have the list yet, if they're, if they get it, if they're on their way to becoming a super connector within their industry, they're a good person to know. Someone else with the big list who doesn't promote, are you going to work with them again or is that a bit of a turn off? Right?

Yeah, it definitely is a turn off for me. Not that I would never work with them again, especially if they provide value and, you know, valuable content. But I will think twice and you know, if there's somebody else that I could invite that has a smaller audience, but that we connect with more and that would really, you know, promote the event, I would choose them over the one with a bigger audience. And so I, at this point in my career, I'm not about like the big names. I'm not about, you know, they have to have this amount of email list or they have to have this thing. It's more. Can they offer either really, really good Value for the exact topic I'm presenting. Like, you know, was with you with that conference or, or they have the right audience and the right heart to really promote and to be part of the event.

So, yeah, I think everyone gets to choose, but I just encourage anyone listening. Don't be afraid of reaching out to someone who seems to have a small audience. Sometimes they might have a very engaged audience.

Yeah, engaged and growing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. How would you define a good collaboration?

I think, you know, it's like where you both. It's a win, win, win. Right? It's a win for you, it's a win for them, it's a win for your audiences. Both audiences. So I think that's the most ideal type of a collaboration is, you know, it's a good fit for both audiences, for both people. And then it just, you know, like I said, you know, you both participate, so it's not a one way thing. And you know, it's, it's different at different times. And like right now I'm, I've done a collaborative club, collaborative blog post, and a collaborative podcast episode. And those are fun too. They're a little bit different because I, you know, I am promoting them to my audience, but it's just, it's a little bit different. And so, you know, it's, it's, you know, maybe not quite as equal, but it's still, you know, they can share that content with their audience. I am able to create great content for my audience. I promote them to, you know, our audience and then they share it, you know, so there's all different ways to collaborate and sometimes it's more even than others, but I just think that as long as everyone wins in the end, it's a good collaboration for me.

I love that. So you touched on some new ways that you're collaborating and I know that your conferences have changed your business and your life. Is there a particular story that you could share about how a collaboration with someone has transformed your business or your life? And you could talk about C.J. too.

Yeah, yeah. There's been so many, I think that, you know, that I could share. But there is, there, you know, there is one particular thing that I just wanted to share is like when I was first getting started marketing our books, I would do group promotions and basically what I would do and this was again like 2012 and you know, 2014, probably in between those years. But I would host this and then everyone would lower their book to like 99 cents or maybe do a free KDP promo because that was like the big KDP free promo days where like, you could actually make a lot of money after you did a free promo. But anyways, I would host these and all the authors would get featured on a page and there would be some sort of giveaway, usually an Amazon gift card. And then we would all promote. We would put together our promotion energy and we would promote that for a certain amount of time, usually two to three days. And those were so fun. Like, it was just the early days of just being scrappy, right? Of just like doing the thing and just taking the risk and reaching out. And I just had so much fun with it. But I also had some of my biggest book launches. I launched one of my books, Gratitude Journal, which is. It's called Gratitude Journal now. But yeah, it went so well. But it was. It was kind of like a spontaneous thing and it was just gathering all the people and just coming up with ideas. And so I think one of the things I want to say is like, just to have fun with it too. Like not to, you know, be so serious about it. But another collaboration in a different way that really did change the whole trajectory of my business was I went to a in person mastermind and it was with women and it was at the beach. So that was fun. But I met somebody there that we just connected. You know, you just can. There's certain people that you just click with. And we just connected and so we stayed connected afterwards. She was further along on the journey than I was in business. And I was really struggling at the time and she offered to help me out. So she brought me onto their podcast for a coaching session. They were doing these coaching sessions on their podcast and basically was it, you know, coached me for free. She was the one that gave me the idea instead of just having a product to launch a membership. And she gave the. Her and her husband gave me the exact ideas and plan on that podcast when I was interviewed. And that's what I'm doing today is Christian Book Academy. Seven and a half years later, I still have that membership. It's how we pay our bills. And if I wouldn't have went to that mastermind, if I wouldn't have made that connection with her and then collaborated with her by being on her podcast and getting coaching from her and all the things. It's like sometimes just these relationships that you form at different events or different things can change the whole trajectory of your career. And that's what happened to me at that event.

Wow. I gotta go to some in person events.

It's so powerful. Like I have not been for a while, but 2015, 2016, I think even 2017, I was going to more live events and there were a few key relationships that I met there that really, really helped our business to grow.

I have a few authors in our community who go to 20 books to 50k every year and they just love who they meet. All these accountability buddies who are making 5, 6, 7 figure 5, 6, 7 figures writing books and it's really inspiring for them. And they wouldn't have got that if it wasn't for the in person, the after hours places where you guys bond.

Yes.

Okay.

It is, it's. It's so different than Zoom or social media.

Yeah, Zoom is good too for the, the breakout rooms where especially for nerdy people who would otherwise stand alone in a corner at a in person event, it can be all right.

Okay.

So I would love to just open up the floor and ask you as a business owner and successful Christian woman, if you have any advice about absolutely anything that you, you'd like to share or any anything you'd like to share before we head out.

Yeah, I think just because we've been talking about collaborations, I'll keep it about that. But you know, I just encourage you not to give up. So it's so easy to want to collaborate and maybe someone says no, or maybe it just says seems too hard or it's like there's nobody that is in my niche or whatever. Just keep going because there is a place for you. And then the thing is, when you are seeking out collaborations, especially if you're an author, most of us are introverted. I am as well. So don't try to shove a round peg into a square hole. Don't try to do it exactly like some other extroverted business owner does it. Do it the way that feels good to you. And I'm realizing that for myself too, like my next event is going to look different. It's going to be different because the last one exhausted me and so I'm changing too. And so don't be afraid to do things a little differently that will work well with who you are, your personality, your gifts. And collaboration doesn't have to look one way. So you can do it your way and you can make it work. No matter what personality you have. Introverts actually make great networking people because you can form really deep relationships. And so don't be afraid to do it your way. But then don't give up too soon because there is power in this and it's One of the quickest ways without having to spend a ton of money in ads to really see momentum in whatever you're doing.

Well, thank you so much, Shelly. Your advice, I mean, you absolutely practice what you preach and it's going to be super helpful for the audience. So I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you reaching out to me that day. You needed someone to talk about collaboration for your audience and continuing this relationship.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Jess. You're amazing and so such an inspiration and so thank you so much for having me. And I just love all that you're doing.

Thank you. We'll see you next time.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of Kingdom Writers. We believe that you, as a Christian writer, have a specific role to play in the Kingdom of Heaven to impact lives for eternity.

And because of this, we choose to pour out our lives into encouraging writers like you to not only tell your stories, but to take the courageous step of self publishing your stories in books that will outlive you and leave behind a powerful legacy. This podcast is sponsored by Christian Book Academy where we help you give birth to your books. We invite you to join our community of Kingdom Writers.