#377: Marketing Minute: What to Do When Your Podcast Pitch Isn't Working with Kim Stewart

Welcome to Kingdom Writers, where we help equip and empower Christian writers of all genres to share your unique gifts with the world. We're your hosts, C.J. and Shelley Hitz.

This podcast is filled with spiritual encouragement as well as prayers to help you overcome the resistance you face as a writer. Your story matters.

Hey, everybody. Hey, everyone.

This is Shelly Hitz. And welcome back to the marketing minute of the Kingdom Writers Podcast. Today I am joined by my friend Kim Stewart. Welcome, Kim.

Hey, Shelly. Thank you for having me.

And Kim has been a speaker on our Kingdom Writers Conference, and she is an expert in pitching podcasts for interviews, and so I wanted to have her here today. And she also has her own podcast, book Marketing Mania Podcast, so for sure, go check that out. But she is a book marketing coach, and she specifically works with Christian nonfiction.

Authors, which is most of you.

I know some of you are fiction.

Or children's book authors, but a lot of you would fit that category.

And she's just amazing.

You know, she can help you build your platform and market your books on podcasts.

And so she lives in Dallas with her family and is a coffee lover. And I am a tea drinker, I will say, but my husband is the coffee connoisseur in our house. But welcome, Kim.

Thank you so much, Shelly. Yeah, that's okay. If you like tea, I still. You could still be my friend.

We can still be friends. I know most writers are coffee drinkers. I want to just jump right in.

Because I know you have so much expertise and so much goodness to share, and we've talked about pitching on, you know, podcast before in other episodes, but I want to dig a little deeper. You know, what to do when your podcast pitch isn't working. So. So first of all, like, just tell us, like, how would you recommend troubleshooting if someone is pitching podcasts and they are not getting yeses yet?

Yeah, and that happens a lot. And I get a lot of people that'll. They'll come to me. They'll just be like, what am I doing wrong? And I want to say it's probably not that you're doing necessarily anything wrong, but you just do want to troubleshoot and make sure that you are, you know, pitching the right places and, you know, communicating the right things in your emails. So the first place I would say to troubleshoot is to look at your actual pitch list shows that you're reaching out to, because sometimes what you'll find as you kind of step back and kind of look at those shows is one you might come across Shows that don't even interview guests, they may be solo shows. And so, you know, you may not be hearing anything back from them, or, you know, they may be turning you down. And that's the reason is they don't even interview guests. Now, sometimes they'll tell you that, sometimes they won't, you know, or you just might be getting crickets and not knowing either way. But I would also look at it. Is the show current? Because as Shelly and I both know, as podcast hosts, it's really common for people to fall into what we call pod fade, where they just disappear and you don't know what happened. And for whatever reason, they've stopped, you know, producing episodes. But there's no way to know unless you kind of dig into when was their last episode. So maybe they're not currently producing episodes. So you want to just make sure those two things for sure, you know, are they interviewing guests? Are they releasing current episodes? Then the thing, the next thing I kind of look at is the guests that they are having on the show. Are they guests of similar size to you? And it's not. It's not about, you know, the number and the size of platform, and I don't want us to get, like, really wrapped up in that, but we do have to kind of look at that because sometimes the hosts themselves have a really large platform, and so they are typically interviewing guests with an even larger platform, you know, in hopes of growing their show and making connections. So I kind of like looking at that. And sometimes it's really obvious. If you follow a lot of authors, you'll see their names and you'll be like, okay, I know who that is. And, yeah, they probably have a little bit bigger platform. Or if you don't know, you know, you can go quickly look at Amazon and check out their book. But I think that's just an important thing to kind of take a little bit of note of is sometimes we are pitching shows like that, but that are having guests on that are a little bit further down the line than us. So maybe they've been speaking for years, lots of podcast interviews, lots of books published and things like that. So. And just don't be discouraged, because there's so. So many podcasts you could be pitching other than maybe those. So that's. Usually those are like, the top three things I notice when people come to me is like, if we can kind of look at that, then it's like, oh, okay, now this is why maybe I didn't hear back from them, or, you know, I've was turned down from them. So that's the first place I would look, is definitely look at your pitch list. And the second thing is I would definitely look at your pitch email because I know some podcasts do have a form for you to fill out, but some of them don't. And so we're just simply sending them an email with a pitch, you know, to be a guest on their show. And I think the first thing to look at is just, are you sharing more in that email about yourself than you are about the listeners? And I think typically when we're looking for PR as an author, we typically think of, especially like with publications and tv, we're really trying to sell them on us, you know, why they should interview us and how great we are. And not that a podcast host doesn't need to know that, but they really, they really want to know. The, the biggest thing is what value are you bringing to my listeners. And I know Shelly and I feel that same way as podcast host. And just making sure that that's really the meat of your pitch is, is what, is, what is it you're bringing to their show that's going to bring value in their day? And then the piece about you can be even short. Are the two places I immediately think to troubleshoot first.

Yeah, and I think that's great because, you know, I think I've heard you even say it before. Sometimes we just spray and pray.

Right? We just, yes, we're just like, you.

Know, trying anyone and everyone and yet like, as we go we can start to refine and tweak the process. And something else I've, I've encouraged authors to look at when they're looking for podcasts to pitch. You know, I work with a lot of self published authors, so, you know, sometimes you'll see podcasts that mostly host traditionally published authors. And I, you know, I don't see anything less if you're self published, but you know, again, there just may be a preference on that show for, for, you know, people that are published with their same publisher or run in the similar circles or. The other thing I've noticed is sometimes certain podcasts will mostly interview men or.

Women, so that's something that you can look at as well.

But if they are, you know, if, if they're trying to pitch podcasts and they're really wanting to make this, you know, something that can work for them but, you know, are just not having success yet, are there other little tips or techniques you recommend for finding new podcasts to pitch?

Yes, I Do. And I know if. If your listeners aren't involved in your community, Shelly, I know that there's a lot of podcasts, a lot of authors in your community, and writers that have podcasts. So I always think, you know, be sure and check the communities that you might be involved in, or check out Shelley's community, because I think that the first place is a great community because everyone there is usually so generous, and if they're just starting podcast, they're probably looking for guests. So I love looking in communities I'm already involved in. And then there's a couple of Facebook group, the Christian Podcasters Association Facebook group, and obviously that's all podcasters, as well as the Spark Christian Podcasters Facebook group. So that's where only, you know, podcast hosts hang out. And some of them are. Many of them are authors, many of them interview authors. But they also will have threads in there occasionally to say if you're looking for a guest post or if you want to be a guest post. And I'm always so blown away by one. I find all these new shows I never even knew about, you know, and then to just how. How many people were actually looking for guests or they see. And if you post, you know, again, what value you're bringing to the listeners, then all these people start commenting. I'd love to have you on my show. You know, here's a link to schedule, you know, or here's a link to fill out my form. And it's just like, boom, boom, boom. You start getting some opportunities, which you definitely want to get some opportunities first under your belt, you know, so that you can reference those as you go, pitch more. But I would definitely, definitely look in the communities that you're involved in, as well as Facebook groups. That's. That's my favorite place to go. And then you can, you know, pull up your favorite podcast app where you listen to the shows and just, you know, go search out an author's name that's maybe released a book in the last year. And you probably, as authors and writers, already read tons of books. So, you know, think of some of the authors that you've seen in the past year launch a book and just, you know, go quickly search their names, and all the shows will pop up that they've been a guest on recently. And so you'll know this is a show that's publishing, you know, current episodes and interviews authors, and then you can vet it a little bit further.

Yeah, and I love that you said, just start with your own communities. I often say that to writers, like, start with the people that you know. And you could even just put a simple post out on Facebook, say, hey, I have this book. I want to get this message out to more people so that God can use it. If you're a podcast host or, you know, somebody, let me know because I'm looking for opportunities. And, you know, many times you'll get even some. Some things from that. But also, like you said, being part of the communities, like those Facebook groups, but also the ones that you're already part of, look where you're already at.

Like, where are you already planted and where are you already investing?

But if somebody's, you know, doing pitches and they're thinking, like, okay, so how many pitches should I send out at one time? Like, I don't want to get overwhelmed with too many interviews. And yet, you know, sometimes it is a little bit of a numbers game, right? Like, you have to send out so many pitches, pitches to get so many acceptance, you know? So, like, what. What do you suggest when it comes to that?

Yeah, and I think you do just. You kind of have to get started. Like. Like Shelly's talking about is you do kind of have to just get started and start seeing what happens, because eventually you'll kind of get in this rhythm and then you'll know, okay, if I pitch this many a month, I might land this many interviews, and then you can kind of start setting your goals. Which we are talking about that on my podcast. Shelly's talking about how we can kind of audit our book marketing efforts. And that's. That would be really helpful, is be able to be able to set those goals and know how you can achieve them. So I like to just say, just do a few at a time. I mean, I've had people come to me and they're like, you know, I heard you're supposed to send out hundreds at a time. And I'm like, you know that if that spray and pray approach works, do it. But I don't think it does. And so what I like is just sending a few out of time at a time because you have time to personalize them. You know, make sure you have the host name. Right, the podcast name. Right. And that you're really showing the value you're bringing to their particular listeners especially. And if you do that just a few at time, then you can, you know, take a break, and then you can see what is working. Am I getting the yeses? Am I getting no's? You know, what do I need to tweak before you Just, you know, mass spray and pray, you know, and then you don't have time to do that. And I just feel like, you know, a lot of times that's your first impression on a podcast host. And so if you're just throwing out a whole bunch of pitches, then you don't have time to rework it. You know, you're like, oh, that was a horrible pitch. I shouldn't have done it that way. And now it's like, do I repitch them? Because now they already have this bad taste in their mouth, maybe about me, you know, so it's like, if you just take a few at a time, you can really stop and evaluate what's working and what's not and what you need to tweak moving forward.

Yeah. And I think, you know, it. It takes away the overwhelm, too, of, you know, this pressure to have so many booked. And I know sometimes people, you know, want to have a certain amount of podcasts, interviews when they launch a book. How do you recommend handling that with the timing? And, you know, sometimes you might not get interviewed for months, and it might.

Be after your book launch, but, like.

What are your recommendations for when planning for a book launch?

Yeah, and it can be exhausting. And as you know, Shelly and I can both tell you, we like to batch ahead. And that's what I'm seeing more and more podcast hosts are doing, is they're batching way ahead. And so think about that way earlier than you think. You want to do your publicity for your book, and you want to, you know, you want to start earlier. And people often are like, oh, but I won't have my book in hand. But it's like, you have that. You have the information in your heart and in your mind. You can share your message. And I would, you know, really lean towards. Again, this is, you know, in Shelley's community, like, look at some of the trainings that they've done on building your email list. Because I would think, you know, when you're way early, like, just think of that as being your goal is, I just want to share my message, you know, get some experience under my belt. I can get them on my email list. You know, I may not be able to share, you know, sell my book on that podcast yet, but I can talk about the content from the book, I can lead them over to my email list, and then when my book does launch, they're on my list already, and I can share it with them. And then long after the launch, you know, there's just so much opportunity to keep talking about your book and finding new shows. So I think you just kind of have to pace yourselves. And I know we all want to do it around the book launch time, but I think the reality is depending on when you're pitching, you know, there's just such a long lead time between pitching and then you actually record the interview, the interview goes live, you know, so I don't think I really encourage authors not to just get wrapped up around only doing it around the launch time because it just, it's not going to probably happen that way anyway. And really if you're strategic about it, it doesn't matter when you, when you are pitching and guesting, you can definitely sell your book that way and encourage listeners. And so, yeah, I wouldn't get too wrapped up around the launch date, but I understand that's usually kind of the date we, we shoot for. And if that is, I would just encourage you to shoot for it way earlier than you think.

Yeah, and I, I really like the whole concept of like, you know, considering this to be a long term strategy and not just a brief thing that you do at the launch.

You know, your book launch, I, I.

I usually say your book launch is just the beginning, not the end. And so, you know, what Kim is saying is to really change your mindset even around this and that it's not just a book launch strategy, but it's actually a long term strategy that if you continue to do like just say you're, you're setting goals to pitch so many new hosts every month and then, you know, it just will begin to gain some momentum over time. So I know we could talk forever.

About this because you are just a wealth of information. But as we begin closing, what would.

Be one main thing that you would.

Just encourage Christian writers about when it.

Comes to pitching to be on podcasts?

Yeah, I think it really is just honing in on the value you're bringing for their listeners and just making sure again, it's not, it's not about you, the author, it's really about them. And as you know, as unique as you can make it sound that your message is, it's not going to sound like the guest they just had the week before. I think it's really going to be helpful and that it's really going to stand out in the host mind that you really took the time to kind of look at their show and who they speak to and what they speak about. And you know, I like to say you want to match your message to the podcaster's mission. And if you can do that really well in an email, it's going to go a long ways.

Yeah, I love that.

Now share a little bit more about.

How our audience can connect with you and maybe even work with you to be able to get booked on more podcasts.

Yeah, I would love to hear from y'.

All.

And again, like Shelly mentioned, I host the book Marketing Mania podcast and have lots of episodes there. You can binge on podcast pitching and podcast guesting or feel free to reach out to me on my website at kim stewart marketing.com and I offer strategy sessions and other things there that you can take advantage of. And I just love to to hear from you and to see how I can support you in your podcast pitching efforts.

Yeah. So I definitely recommend getting connected with Kim. She is just authentic.

She's the real deal and she's always.

Putting out some great content. So thank you for all you do, Kim.

Oh, thank you for having me, Shelly. I so appreciate it.

All right, thank you all for listening.

And we will see you in the next episode.

Bye. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of Kingdom Writers. We believe that you, as a Christian writer, have a specific role to play in the Kingdom of Heaven to impact lives for eternity.

And because of this, we choose to pour out our lives into encouraging writers like you to notice only tell your stories, but to take the courageous step of self publishing your stories in books that will outlive you and leave behind a powerful legacy. This podcast is sponsored by Christian Book Academy where we help you give birth to your books. We invite you to join our community of Kingdom Writers.