How to Sell Courses on Udemy with Tom Corson-Knowles

Welcome to the Author Audience show, the podcast that helps you reach more people with your message. Create a book, connect with your audience, change lives. Here's your host, Shelly Hitz.

Welcome to Author Audience, where I'm on a mission to help you reach more people with your message. It's time to let your light shine. Today I'm rolling out the red carpet and inviting you to join me for this expert interview with Tom Corson Nowles. Hey, Tom, how are you?

Great. Great to be here.

It's so good to have you here. I'm excited for what we're going to talk about today and I just want to tell people a little bit about you. Is that all right?

Yeah, sounds good.

Awesome. Well, Tom is an entrepreneur and blogger and international best selling author of more than 20 books. But the thing that's really interesting is he started his first business at 13, so that's pretty cool. Manufacturing sad lamps out of his father's garage. So you could have been like on Shark Tank, couldn't you have?

Maybe. I'm not sure. Maybe.

I don't know.

By the time he graduated from Indiana University Kelley School of business at 22, he was earning a full time income from his first successful business, which started in his dorm room. I love that. Humble beginnings, right? And he decided to share the keys to his success that he learned along his journey. And he does that in many different ways. But he's the founder of ebookpublishingschool.com it's a free video training program. And he also is the founder of TCK Publishing and he's done a ton of things. We're gonna talk today specifically about Udemy and using Udemy to grow your business. But I love this. It says Tom is often quoted as saying, you can achieve all of your dream as an author if you're willing to master the three key areas of writing, publishing and marketing. That's all it takes, right, Tom?

Well, I'm so excited to have you on. And for this week's Center Stage Spotlight training, we're going to talk all about Udemy and selling courses and trainings on Udemy. And I love this because I've just been talking in my podcast about the importance of having an upsell to your book, the importance of having digital products. So this is just a perfect fit and you've had tons of success with it. So I'm gonna have you share this specific success strategy in this interview and I'm just excited to really.

Dig in and have you share. So tell us just a little bit, like how did you get started with Udemy and selling those trainings?

Yeah. So it's really interesting story, actually. I wrote my first book over 10 years ago, tried for six years to get a traditional book deal, totally fail, get a publisher, couldn't get an agent, complete failure. And then five years ago, a friend just offhand mentioned, you know, why don't you self publish on Kindle? So I did my research, you know, read every book I could find on the subject, every blog post I could find, published my books, and did really well. So within that first 12 months, I had my first $12,000 month alone from just Kindle ebook royalties.

That's awesome.

And I was doing so well with that. And I was doing a lot of social media marketing on Facebook and Twitter. I had a lot of friends and authors and, you know, people who wanted to be authors asked me, you know, how did I do all that? And ended up I got like inundated with emails. So I was spending so much time every day, emails, I couldn't actually, you know, do what I wanted to do, which I love to do, is, you know, work on writing more books and so forth. And so as my business coach at the time said, why don't you just start recording some video trainings for people to answer their questions? So I started posting some videos on YouTube and those just took off. One had like 40,000 views. And so that was doing so well. Then my business coach was like, well, since it's been so popular, why don't you go ahead and record an entire training course for people to teach them how to do it?

Yes.

So that's what I did. And I was considering just the typical thing. Five years ago, four years ago. Well, three years ago, when I published on Udemy, the typical thing and still today that most people do. You create a video training course and you sell it online, but then you have to create your own website. You have to have your own membership plugins, the shopping carts, affiliate management, all these tools and software. And you need a web person to do that for you to learn how to do it yourself. And for me, it just seemed too complicated, not my strengths. And so I was looking for a much simpler way. And so when I checked out Udemy, it was like a perfect fit because right away I saw the metaphor between Udemy and Amazon. They're both massive platforms with millions of people who have their credit cards in the system, who are looking for information. And so once you have your content on that platform.

Udemy or Amazon will start helping you promote and market your Product, your course, your book, as long as they know that, first of all, it's really good quality, so you need good reviews. And also they need to know that there's actually some momentum behind it. So you actually have to do some kind of initial promotion. Right. If you just publish a book on Amazon, don't tell anyone about it, it's unlikely you're gonna get many sales. But if you do a launch, you really promote it. Get those initial first hundred sales. You know, Amazon or Udemy will then pick up the ball from there, and it really help you push that to a much, much higher level.

Yeah. And I love it because I think authors can really wrap their minds around this because it's very similar to Amazon. Like you said, I love that parallel. And, you know, reviews make a lot of impact as well as your initial launch efforts. And I know we were talking before we recorded, is it Udemy or.

You dummy or, you know, how are you actually supposed to say it? So I might say it both ways. I think my brain is like, how do you say this? But I think this is a really, really smart thing for authors to consider to diversify their income. Now, if somebody's really thinking, like, okay, I'm a nonfiction author. I write on these topics. Like, how do I even get started? Like, is there even, like, a few steps that you'd recommend when they're considering putting a training on Udemy?

Yeah, definitely. The first thing I think people have to get comfortable with is just recording videos. And I know for me, when I started out, I was, like, terrified of being on camera. I was, like, stuttering. I was just awful. I was just horrible at it. But I knew just like anything in life, the more you do it, the better you're gonna get. And so what I did, and this was like, six or seven years ago, I bought a little flip cam video.

There you go.

And I would just walk. When I would go on my walk or runs for the day, I would just record a video and I would just talk about, you know, whatever was on my mind, personal development or writing, whatever it was. And then I started posting some of those videos on YouTube. And you can even go back to my YouTube channel and see, like, my very earliest videos. And most of them record my flip cam. They're terrible, but it just shows you proof that you don't have to be, you know, a perfect speaker when you start out. The key is to really get practice. So I recommend and system that I use for my students that has worked really, really well is what you want to do is take the most frequently asked questions you get in your area of expertise. So it might be questions that you get from readers or on your blog, or just even questions that maybe no one's asking you yet because no one really knows who you are yet. You're just starting out, just questions, you know, that people might ask about your topic expertise. And so write down this list and what you want to do is work up to 30 questions and then get your recorder, whether you can use a laptop mobile. Laptops come with webcams now. Your smartphone, iPhone, iPad, video cameras are everywhere. You don't have to go out and.

Buy a professional one right here on my iPhone.

Then what you want to do is just each day answer and record one question each day and then post those to YouTube. And the reason you want to publish them publicly is even. And you can use like a fake channel or a different channel than your main channel if you, you know, if you're really that shy about it, but you're going to get some viewers and you're going to get some responses and comments and you want that kind of feedback to help you improve really any area of life. The more feedback you can get, the faster you're going to improve. So record one video a day for 30 days of the most frequently asked questions that you get and post them to YouTube. And when you're done with that, then I think you'll be at a whole nother level. So all that shyness and that anxiety will just transform into you just being comfortable on camera and being yourself. And once you're to that stage, then I say go ahead and create your course. You know, the big mistake I see people make is that the first video they're trying to record, they sell that in their course. And it really just is really obvious that they're not comfortable on camera stuttering, they're repeating things many, many times. And it's just not the good quality experience that you want your customers, your viewers, your students to get.

I love that. And it just kind of, you know, it can give a bad first impression to people, you know, if you're just doing it. But I love that kind of system that you gave because there's so many authors that are afraid of video, especially talking head videos where you're on camera. Now I'm a speaker and so I'm more comfortable. But I did something last year, I turned 40 years old last year and I did a 40 day video challenge where I recorded a video every day. And it really helped me improve. Well, then I got into Periscope and I've been doing periscopes. I did a hundred in a row and then I've just been doing several a week now. But I have improved so much even for me as a speaker and feeling like that comes more naturally to me. And anything that you practice, you improve on and so I think that's brilliant. But then also you can use those videos to market your current books and to bring them back to your opt ins on your site. People are going to be searching for those questions and so you're actually producing a ton of marketing material at the same time, which is awesome and getting feedback. So I love, I love that. And like if somebody's thinking about like what topic, like how do I know if this topic will actually sell on their platform? Is there any tips that you have for choosing a topic similar to doing.

Market research on Amazon?

Right.

Market for it is gonna be pretty obvious. So if you go on Amazon, you search for weight loss, it's obvious there's a market for. There's so many books. You know, you see it in magazines. If you see it on books and magazines, you know, on tv, it's a big market. Yeah. Something more niche like you know, Astral Projection. You know, I know there's still a market for it. I know there's still people in that market that make, you know, six figures, seven figures, maybe even more. So there's still a market for it, but it's a much smaller market. And so in a much smaller market it's good and bad. So in a smaller market it's good because they're probably not on Udemy yet or if they are, they're not doing very well. Similar to Amazon. Right. And so if you come to that platform and you create the best product available on that platform and get it, do a good job of launching it and getting that initial attraction, then anyone coming on that platform who needs that area of expertise will automatically go to you. And so that makes it easier to attract customers in that sense in a tough market like weight loss. Now there's already a million books on weight loss on Amazon. So how do you stand up in the crowd in there? You have to sell thousands of books during your launch to really get to.

The top, to get that momentum.

Exactly. So there's blessings and curses to being in smaller, bigger markets. But I mean if you're an author and you're already making money and you're field of expertise, then you're definitely going to be able to make money selling that same information through or if you've.

Already built a tribe and you already have an email list of subscribers that want more from you, it's just a no brainer, you know, to take it to the next step. But I'm, I'm on your, your page on you, you to me. And 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Is it? Do you have seven courses right now?

I do, yeah.

Okay.

Co instructor for one of them. Six of them. I create all of them.

Okay, awesome. So six that you've created. One that you, you did with someone else. And then tell us a little bit about your success because, I mean, you're. It's nice to know that you're giving us these tips, but there's a reason that I've asked you to talk about this. So tell us just a little bit on the, about the success you've had.

I mean, it's been awesome, you know, ever since the first month. I think I've done at least $3,000 a month every month on Udemy minimum. And it's gone much higher than that. But I mean, I was really impressed, you know, as in. And that was like three years ago. So Udemy is like, I think it's grown like six or seven or maybe eight or nine times since then. It's grown so much. So the potential now for revenue is much, much higher. They have over 10 million students now, so that's pretty impressive. So I have over 37,000 students in my courses.

That's awesome.

So there's 37,000 people who like paid to watch me teach them about something. Right. So it's not like on YouTube, you know, if you have 37,000 subscribers.

Right. It's different.

This is totally different. Right. And then just tons of reviews and feedback. You know, I know you're big in personal development, Shelley, and I am too. And one of my mentors is Jim Rohn. He said, you know, set a goal to become a millionaire. And do you want to know why to set that goal? The reason is for who it will make you become to achieve it. For who you have to become to achieve that goal. And what I love about Udemy and sharing your information through video courses is that not only do you get to make great income, but the person you become when you record those first 30 videos and you go from totally shy and totally anxious on camera to just totally being yourself and being able to fully express yourself, to be able to change people's lives with the information that you share in a really deep way, because you don't get the same Thing with a book. I sold hundreds of thousands of books. But it's rare that you get the email from a reader who tells you that they changed your life. You know, it happens, but it's much rare. But with a video course, you really get to have a much more in depth impact. You know, I've had people say, you know, Tom, you've been in my home every day for the past month.

Kind of freaky, but yeah, it's just.

Really cool, the kind of impact that you can have from this and you know, the level of growth that you'll get and the feedback that you'll get as well. Because at the video course, again, you're going to get much more feedback than you do for the book. 37,000 students and I've probably sold 10 times that many books at least. And I get way more feedback from my video course students than from my readers. And I think it's just because video is so much more interactive. They get to see you, they get to hear your voice, your tonality and really get to know you on a much deeper level. And I think that's a real, real blessing as well.

It is. And so you guys, Tom has done this and done it successfully. And do you have like a book or a course where you teach people how to do this yet?

I don't, but there is Scott, a friend of mine. Scott has a course that's really good, so we can link that in the show notes. He's got a really good course that walks you through everything you need to know on Udemy and really some advanced marketing stuff as well.

Yeah, that's awesome. Because I know that there's so much potential for authors and I just want them to think bigger, think more than just a book. Think outside just the book. And I think this is a perfect platform because it eliminates the tech barriers. You don't have to build a website. It eliminates so many of the things that keep people from creating digital products and it allows you to have another income stream and then like you said, just to impact people's lives in a deeper way. Now, as we're getting ready to kind of wind down a little bit, what are some of the top mistakes you'd recommend people to avoid if they end up, you know, selling a video course or, you know, putting a course on Udemy.

Yeah, so the big one, like I mentioned, is, you know, selling your first video. So make sure you do this 30 day frequently asked questions. Record those videos first so you really get just to be yourself on camera right the second big mistake a lot of people make is that they, you know, just release the course, don't do any marketing or promotion. And so it's really important, you know, like there's so many people on udemy and over 10 million people with their credit cards on file. And you want to reach those people, but you can't reach them without proving to Udemy that they deserve to know about it. Right. And so when you launch your course, as soon as you launch your course on Udemy and release it, you want to do as much promotion as possible, just like you would with a book launch, to really get your first 50, 100 or more students in the course and engaged and leaving reviews and leaving comments and, you know, build that community first. And then Udemy will say, wow, this is a great community. People love this course. Well, now we're going to promote it to more people. So those are the big mistakes I say people make.

Awesome. Yeah, I think those are really, really key tips. And it's just interesting. I guess I hadn't thought about it before this interview of just the parallels there are, you know, with Amazon and Udemy. But I think that's really helpful for authors to see that the importance of just that initial launch, you know, the marketing is still important. And, you know, as we close down, I always like to end these trainings with a take action tip. So what kind of take action tip would you recommend to our listeners today?

So start recording your first video, like today, like right now.

Do it video before.

Turn on your cell phone, turn on your iPhone, your iPad, your laptop, whatever, and just start talking. Doesn't matter. It can be complete gibberish. But do that every day for 30 days and I guarantee you it will transform not just your business, but even just your personal communication with friends and family and strangers and public speaking. It's one of those huge gifts that I gave myself for personal development. And I've seen few things transform people so quickly than just doing that. You know, like when you get people out in front of the room to do public speaking, it's the same thing, but you don't have to leave your house. You can just do it on camera.

I love that. I mean, I so agree with you and I love that tip. So you guys get out your cell phones, your smartphones, your iPads, or whatever you have, start recording and get better. It's a skill. Just like writing. Writing is a skill, but speaking and communication, whether it's communicating and writing or communicating face to face, those are some of the basic skills we need to really succeed. So I love that. Now, Tom, if people want to connect with you and find out more about you, where's the best place that they can do that?

Yeah, so you can go to ebookpublishingschool.com and there I've got a free video training course where I talk about writing and publishing books. You can also check out the blog@tckpublishing.com there's tons of great information there as well. And then also my podcast shows, the Publishing Profits podcast, where every week I interview best selling authors and attorneys and literary agents and marketers and publicists to talk about what's working right now in the industry.

Awesome. So you guys definitely hook up with Tom. He has a lot to share and to offer and I've just enjoyed getting to know you better, Tom. And I know that our paths will probably continue to cross in other ways, but thank you guys so much for joining us in this episode. I know you have tons of options and tons of different ways that you can be spending your time. We appreciate you being here and I'll see you next time. Thanks, Tom, for being here.

Thanks, Shelley. Have a great day.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Author Audience Show. Connect with us online@authoraudience.com where you'll find all the resources made mentioned in today's episode. While you're there, grab Shelley's free video training on how to write and publish your book using her Six Step Ascent method. Join us again next week to learn how to reach your audience with your message.