10 Lessons from the Super Bowl

Foreign.

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. Excited to have you with me and actually with us, I've got my returning special special guest. Excited to have Roger Sitkins, CEO of the Sitkin Group, with me on this podcast today. Roger, welcome and thanks for being with us again.

Well, that's my pleasure. It's always great being on these to share some information with producers and agency leaders to help them do the things we always talk about, sell more, retain more and earn more. So I hope they listen up. I hope they get a lot of lessons out of today.

Absolutely. And as I always say, any episode. But certainly we have Roger Sitkins with us is grab your pen and your paper and get ready to take some notes because we're going to be sharing some things today that we know are going to be very valuable to you and your insurance agency. And as always, the purpose of the Agent Leader podcast is to help your agency gain clarity, build consistency and, and make that commitment a commitment to become your best version possible. And you know, this, this podcast recording comes on the tails of the super bowl. And whether you're a Super bowl fan or you're not a Super bowl fan, I think it's become basically a national holiday, right to one way to one way or another. And it's something that people talk about again, whether it's the game, the players, the commercials, whatever it is, and to kind of lead in to set up the podcast. And as Roger and I had talked earlier this week, you know, he had had a coaching call. We have coaching calls as part of our Sitkins Network. And by the way, as always, as a reminder, if you want to learn more about Sitkins and the Sitkins Network, just go to sitkins.com and in particular our all inclusive membership. So sitkins.com aim for a way to get your entire agency to have this power of transformation of your agency and get the results you're looking for. But Roger and I were talking about it and you know a little bit about the super bowl and then he was talking about coaching call that he had recently with one of our clients and started talking about the, the similarities, so to speak, and in some ways maybe the differences, maybe the better way, Roger, of, of what we see with how teams, in particular football teams get ready to go out and do things versus the way that insurance agencies do things. And as Roger was kind of giving me the highlights, I thought, wow, this is, this is powerful stuff. This makes a lot of sense and I admit I admittedly love sports analogies and I know some of you listening aren't sports fans, but I think you'll get the point of this as Roger talks about it and, and how it relates to your agency. And quite honestly, this is true. Whether it's music or theater or anything else, you know what, what we're going to talk about in a different perspective. So without further ado, Roger, again, that's one of the reasons I brought you on this podcast is you share with me a little excerpt, I guess, of the coaching call. And I knew that. I know our audience on the Agent Leader podcast will love this and can take some notes. And I know we'll get you thinking about your agency. So, Roger, just kind of give an overview of what happened on this call, what you shared, and how it applies to agencies.

I was talking to one of our members, as you mentioned, who's a big football guy, and he actually mentors football coaches, you know, high school coaches and things that he's got to know through the years and really a committed individual to being, you know, as we call the best version possible. And he's just a great guy, just a long term friend. And it hit me as I was getting my notes ready and preparing for the meeting, what a surprise we prepared. And I said to myself, you know, he's a big football guy. What analogy can I use? And this is before the super bowl, but I think people will relate to what we're talking about as a result of the Super Bowl. Sorry to my Kansas City friends, but living here in southwest Florida, go Bucs. You know, so we got talking about. As I was preparing again, I was going to talk about the agency where he was going, it dawned on me that when you look at an average agency, which gets pretty good results, as we always say, you know, even being semi successful in this business, you'll do okay. At the end of it, you'll have a bunch of regrets, but through the journey, you'll be doing okay. That if an average agency was a football team, what would their football team look like using that analogy? And so I started making all these notes and it turned into a pretty cool conversation. So the first one, which is something you and I talk about all the time, the average agency, if it was a football team, and let's just say college and beyond, okay? Because I know like when I played in college, we certainly had a playbook. Even in high school you had a playbook, and you can imagine the size of it at the pro level. Okay. So if an Average agency was a football team, they wouldn't have a playbook. It'd be more like sandlot football. Everybody kind of shows up, does their own thing. There's no real team playbook. No way of. As we talk about the agency's way of doing business and we'd go out there and we'd run around kind of drawing plays in the sand, but there would be no consistent playbook from a offense or defensive perspective. There certainly wouldn't be an overall one page business plan that summarized what the goals and objectives were for the whole season. So that's the first one, Brent. Just no playbook. And as we talk about when we look at it with agencies, we say, look, your playbook should really have three areas. Prepare, play and stay prepare. How do I prepare to play the game at a very high level, how do I actually play the game and then how do I stay in the game? So that's the starting point for me. The next one, one of my favorite topics. Well, an average agency wouldn't have a set offense. Everybody kind of do their own thing and that relates back to the playbook, but they really wouldn't have. Here's how we go to market. Here's our unique process that we can share with others as we somewhat tongue in cheek say all the time is the, the average way, the average offense, if you nothing more than look, copy, quote and pray or sitting in the office waiting for the pings, dings rings to happen, okay? And all of a sudden we're going, oh, there's an opportunity to practice, quote, there's an opportunity to do some unpaid consulting. And again in all of that, you'll still be okay. But it's rare that when people first reach out to us, they have a set offense where they know this is how we score points, this is how we really get out there and retain and obtain ideal clients. So no set offense. And please, at any point, joke if I, if I'm going too far, any of these.

No, this is good. Keep going, Roger. I love it.

The next one is there's no defense. Okay? So when we look at defense, it's in our game, of course, of insurance, it's how do we keep the other team from stealing the ball, stealing our client and scoring points. Okay. Better known as a turnover. So when I look at an average agency and I just say, tell me what your exit barriers are. What is it you do to make sure that all of your relationships are long term relationships? Okay. And what is the continuation process you have that separates you not Just a renewal process. Well, then we get some of the generic 5. We give great service and we represent all the carriers and we can save you money. And of course, we have the best people. We've been in business forever. Next area. And by the way, those of you listening, if any of these hit home, take some notes on this because these are the things that get a team to the super bowl and then win it. Next. There's no special teams. And what I meant by that, as I was writing out my notes originally, was that all too often just a whole bunch of general practitioners, they're not really specialists. And we know without a doubt that in any professional services operation, any company or individual, that specialists always make more money than general practitioners. There's no special teams. Everybody kind of does their own thing. And yet we know that in the best football, you know, you have some guys that all they do is extra points and other guys are field goal kickers. Maybe that's one of the same kickoff, okay? A bunch of special teams players, people just play their position, not everybody's. So it's a huge one. Next. And this is going to be self serving. I'll admit it right up front. They don't have any coaches. The average agency is self coaching. They're just saying to themselves, well, let's just keep doing what we're doing because we're doing okay. But they don't reach outside of themselves. And as we've said before, when you look at average agencies, 80% of them, they're going to do okay, at least now, longer term, I'm concerned about them, but 80% of them are quoters and floaters. And they'll go along and they'll have, you know, 3, 4, 5% growth rate, but they'll never really take off. Well, you know, trial and error takes too long and it's too expensive. And get some coaches. So the, you know, the average agency would be a football team without coaches. And by the way, they wouldn't have any trainers or strength coaches either. Okay. They wouldn't kind of challenge each other. One of the big ones that just. Boy, you know, I want all of you to think about your favorite team or Brent mentioned theater, music, whatever. Do the best practice, you know, do the best practice. Well, absolutely. All those plays in the super bowl or the last song you saw, you heard that was great, or you went to theater or you went to an outdoor event, people practiced. And yet the average agency is always too busy to practice. It amazes me the amount of time, money, resource that agencies Waste by not demanding practice. One of my neighbors, who I've just got to know, he's a relatively new neighbor, is recently retired as the managing partner of a financial advisory firm that he built. And he and I were having lunch the other day because I always like to ask successful people, what did you do? What can I learn? Okay. And I don't even know, Brent, if I told you this one yet, but he had somewhere a little over 50 financial advisors in his firm. And when I asked him what his unique process was, he articulated it. And by the way, it was conversational and comfortable. And I said, boy, Doug, you really have got that down. Do your advisors sound as conversational and comfortable as you? He said, the vast majority of them. I said, why is that? He said, because we practice every Monday and every Thursday we practice now. Think about that. And this guy, by the way, very, very successful. So they practice. The next one really hits home with me too, and I hope it does with everybody. If you were a football team, what percent of the people that came to the game would be season ticket holders? Okay. And by that I mean that they're raving fans to the point that they want to do everything with you. The average agency has maybe 20% of their clients that we would consider the term we use full time clients. In other words, season ticket holders. All right, next. Well, if you're at the professional level or the college level, you've got to do a lot of recruiting. So average agency, are they recruiting or do they think, oh, we've got an opening now it's time to start looking versus saying ongoing recruitment is a never ending event. All right, what about the marketing of their teams? Well, you got to fill the stands, right? In our case, you'd like filling the pipeline. Is there a formal marketing plan other than clicks, rings, dings and pings? I mean, what are we doing to really get out there? I love watching the super bowl now where they all have their Microsoft the writing pads or what are they called? Brent, I just lost the term the Surface.

Right, The Microsoft Surface Surface.

Great marketing by them. But, you know, in the old days, I can. Not that long ago, they weren't allowed and they were literally getting faxes on the sideline that you'd see them looking at from up above. And now they have the Surface where they're going and they're watching the last play. They're talking things through and everybody knows how to use it. It's not like, hey, how do I turn this on? You darn well better know how to Use that technology. Huge one on my list. No scoreboard. If you ask the agency owner and you actually do more of this now than I do. But when people inquire and they say, hey, I want to learn more about your members program and I want to see how that could impact my agency, see if there's a fit. And we ask them just some core numbers about their agency, they always answer with, well, it's about, it's about. Well, it's about like what's your, what's your revenue per employee? I guess it's about 125,000. And I won't use this individual's name because I haven't asked if I could. But, but a longtime friend of mine that I consulted with many, many moons ago before they went public, I asked him several years ago, I was speaking at an event, he came up afterwards and said, hey, great to see you. We've got to do some things together. And I said, what's your revenue per employee? And his answer was literally to the dollar. And I don't remember it exactly, but it was something like $179,235. Okay, okay. And we see this all the time. The people that know their numbers and then more importantly know the behaviors and strategies that change the numbers always do better. So the average agency doesn't have a. Okay, next, they're not scouting the other teams. They don't know what their competitive advantages are against someone else. So if you go in and working out a potential A or B relationship and you know that XYZ agency is in there, what is it that you know about them that you can use to your advantage? Okay, what is it you do that they don't do? Think about that. Because one of the things, kind of a sidebar here, but something we see with our best agencies, those in the private client group with us, and the ones that have really implemented executing very high on a selling system, which of course ours is the risk concierge program. The ones that do that, when a competitor comes in to work on one of their accounts, most times the competitor's going, I can't compete with that. I don't know where I'm different. I don't know where I can be better. So certainly just the whole concept there is crucial. You know, getting back to practice. The best football teams, guess what they do. They film practice. They film every game, obviously, in the pros. I remember a long time ago, I went to a game at Auburn and one of my friends, Chris McVicker, long term client and friend, who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, had won some tickets to go to the game and be in a private booth. So we flew there together. He invited me, and looking at the game program, it was amazed me because it had the video staff there in the program, and there were 16 people on the video.

Wow.

Okay. And so they're filming all the time, by the way. They actually watch them too. Just maybe kind of a final thing here. And there are certainly more, but sporadic team meetings at best in an average agency. As one of my good friends said one time, he said, one of the problems I've got in my agency is that we have a whole bunch of scheduled but unheld meetings because everybody gets too busy. So they're not having this team meetings, and then they're not having position meetings. And I guess tied to all of that kind of an overriding theme here, they're not training everybody. That would be like saying, okay, we've got. We have seven running backs on our team total on our roster. Two of you go to practice, go get some training. Rest of you kind of hang around, and when they come back, they'll tell you what they did. We have eight offensive linemen on our roster. Three of you go to the training, come back and tell the others, and then we'll forget about it pretty soon. Because some of that research you and I have done recently shows that after 90 days, 84% of original training is lost because there's no reinforcement. So I just look at all of this, and I say, wow. And yet the average agency does okay because it is a great business. But I also say, and I mentioned it earlier. Yeah. But later on, what are your regrets? What are the consequences of not doing these things? And that's what I love, is when agency owners and when team members commit. By the way, is it possible for everybody to do everything we've said, plus all the things we haven't said yet? No. As you know, one of our challenges that we're saying to people now is, look, there are always more great ideas than there is time or capacity to implement them. Let's filter down to the most important things. Let's go deep on those and execute at a very, very deep level so that it does give us some unfair advantages. So I guess that's the end of my sermonette. You can ask me any questions you'd like.

Well, there are a lot of things to. To dive deeper on, but I want to. In fact, I'll just tell you now, Rogers, you were. You were saying that I'M I'm taking notes. You may my, my scribbles a little bit, so apologize for the scratches in the background. But what I came up with when you said is 10 questions that every agency should ask themselves. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna say those at the end and they, they relate directly what you just preached. So I think it'll be, I think it'll be powerful for agencies out there. But I want to just, you know, one of the things that I want to bring up to you and ask you about, because I think it's, it's interesting and we talked about, I think yesterday, maybe, but, you know, whether you love Tom Brady or hate Tom Brady, and there's people on both sides for whatever reason, I would say this, it's kind of like me growing up as a Michael Jordan fan. You may love him or hate him, but it's pretty hard not to respect him. Right? I mean, at least for. Is what he's doing, you know, on the football field and with his teams and all the accomplishments there. But it's interesting to me, we think of agencies or producers is what, what motivates, what makes someone like Tom Brady. And there's others as well. He doesn't need money. I mean, he's my age and he's won a lot of Super Bowls and signed a lot of big contracts and a lot of endorsement deals. And I think he's got a supermodel wife who makes more money than he even does. Right. I mean, all that stuff's out there. So I'm going to ask it in a different way. I know I mentioned Tom Brady, but I want to ask you, Roger, because you've coached a lot of million dollar producers, many and very successful agencies. What is different in their mindset? Why are they wired differently to do things that aren't just motivated by abstract, whatever, exterior things? There's something else. What is it?

Well, something you and I have talked about before. Number one, it's never about money. If it's about money, it shows. You're desperate, you look desperate. People understand it. It's about winning. Tom Brady wants to win. Okay? He doesn't work as hard as he does, have the overall regimens, he has routines, whatever you want to call it, the diet that he has and everything else, because he just wants to go out there and compete. He wants to win. And something I heard the other day on a podcast that really hit home with me, and I don't know that I've heard it said exactly this way, we Hear people talk about getting a why. And that's always a challenge with the producers that are saying semi successful or agency owners that are semi successful. So a producer with four or five hundred thousand dollars of gross commission income in their book, they're semi successful compared to everybody else. And every time we're talking to the chief revenue officers in an agency about this, we always get the God, she's plateaued or he's plateaued. What can we do? And I say, you've got to find out what their why is. And again, we've talked about this, but this was the new one. What is the why that makes you cry? What is the why that's so powerful, so overwhelming that I want to do this because of what I can do? Because when they're semi successful, the next step is certainly financial freedom, but it's also. It doesn't really change their lifestyle as much as it changes what they can do for others. So if their why is, you know, I really want to help my church. I really want to help my community. I really want to make sure that I'm teaching my children about financial management. I'm going to start doing more with them on it, whatever it may be. But what's your why that makes you cry? Because Brady could have quit a long time ago. In fact, you just shared something with me when we were prepping for this about the insurance thing. Share that with the group.

Well, I don't know how many State Farm listers we have, probably none. So this is fine to share, share. But it was funny. I saw it on a. An insurance page of some kind on Facebook or whatever, and it just had a picture at the top. It had. At the top, it had Brady holding up his rings, the smile on his face. And below it had Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. And it said, maybe State Farm isn't number one this year or something like that. And I thought, you know, obviously that could come from another captive or whatever, but I thought that was kind of funny, you know, first for sure. But I mean, it's just. It's just one of those things about. First of all, Roger, I feel like if you didn't write that down, I had not heard that before Roger shared that. What is the why that makes you cry?

Yeah.

Gosh. I mean, that's powerful. And I mean, it is interesting when you tap into that. You know, it kind of goes back to think and grow rich, that book, the classic book. And there's so much talk about that burning desire, that passion. And we talk with Our clients and members, the Sitkins Group, about, you know, your best version possible. Because I. You mentioned the word regrets earlier. I mean, it's one of those things where at some point, yeah, well, I'm doing okay. I have a, I have a nice car or house or whatever it may be. That's that comfortable American lifestyle in many ways. But then you go to bed night and go, gosh, I know there's more that, that I could do. And it's not just out of ego I say this, it's just out of the fact that I think we're all created to achieve the highest things we're able to achieve. And I think we internally, whether we verbalize them or not, we know what they are. I mean, we know when we go, you know what? I was all out on that. I mean, I was fully in, I committed to it, I believed in it. Sweat, blood, tears, whatever, right? And there's that satisfaction of the fact that even sometimes, you know, I mean, part of that, of course you all want to win, but you know what I mean, there's a chance Tom Brady could have played that game and not one he's lost Super Bowls before, you know, I mean, so it doesn't mean you're always guaranteed victory. I think part of it is just that that journey in the process of. I owe it to myself, I owe it to my teammates, in this case, use the football analogy. I owe it to my coaches, I owe it to my fans. I mean, all those things that you said as an individual, hey, I can't sell myself short. So just, I don't know if you have anything to add to that, Roger, but just hit me as you said.

That, you know, I don't mean to disrespect Patrick Mahomes at all, because guess what? He signed a 10 year contract for over $500 million and he did win the super bowl and he was an mvp. Okay, so nobody wins them all. But what's interesting is literally yesterday here at the office, my Men's Health magazine showed up and it's got Patrick Mahomes on the COVID So maybe bad timing, whatever. But if you want to read, and I would challenge all of you, even if you're not a sport fan, go online, look up Men's Health and read the article about him and what he does to be so good and why it is that he works so hard. They even talked in there that the day he signed that 540 million deal, he let his trainer know, said, don't worry, I'll be Back in two days and we're going, we're hitting the gym right away. A lot of people could have sat on it. Just, you know, we always talk about this, Brent. Success leaves clues. So does failure and being average. And it's just, it's easy to be average. So when I look at this and I say, first of all, this is an individual player. And again, I don't care what sport you're playing right now. I'm talking about playing the sport. The game of football. No. How about the game of insurance? Right, but are you willing to get into a great morning routine, which we've talked about before, or just an overall routine that says, you know what, I'm going to out prepare everybody, I'm going to out practice everybody. No one's going to be as good as me, period. And then we look at this and say, now, my team overall, if I'm an individual producer, what can I do with my high performance team to really get in? As we talked last time, the green zone. Spend 80% of my time in the green zone, not the red zone. And as an agency owner, what can I do to get my whole team working together? And let's just take three basic things. An overall playbook, an offense, and a defense that we practice and it becomes our own. I mean, if we just did that, it gives you such an unfair advantage. Because the reality is, Brent, if we were to survey all the agents out there, maybe 2% would have what we just talked about. Maybe 2%.

Yeah, I agree. There's no doubt. And I mean, let's face it, there's a lot of things. And I'm going to read through my 10 questions here, so I'm going to tease it one more time. But again, they all relate to what you said. But I've got to make one more comment on that. You talked about success leaves clues. And just like you, Roger, I love to read books and learn from things. One of the things I reason why I love sports, the fact that I'm just, you know, they're entertaining, right? I, I find them entertaining, but there's so many life lessons. But I think this is true not just in sports, but certainly in business and other walks of life. And, you know, if you're not reading biographies of successful people or learning about what they did, I mean, there's so much that you can take from that. And it just comes back to the environment. You know, what environment are you going to surround yourself with? What are you going to be reading? Who are you going to be hanging out with, you know, who's going to inspire you to greatness? Because you might even know until. One of the things that I love about one example in particular, I love about our producer fit program. And I've shared this in different ways before, but when someone comes into the program and they think in their mind, and I don't know what the number is, Roger, could be any number, but in their mind they would say, you know, a $300,000 producer or 400, that would be, boy, that would be the ultimate like, boy, if I could ever get to that. And then they sit at a table or now a virtual roundtable with a million dollar producer and they realize, wait a second, I can do that. The difference is what. It's how they're prepared, it's their mindset, it's how they improve their skills. Right? It's all those kind of things. So I think thought of it as just the awareness of. Wait a second. So it's about who are you surrounding yourself? What are you learning? Who are you learning from? So just some things there. So, Roger, are you ready for my 10 questions?

I'm ready.

And I wrote these down in pencil and I have really bad handwriting, so if I struggle through them, I'll apologize now. But the first three questions are based around the playbook, right? You just kind of already addressed this, but you talked about prepare, play and stay. My first question to you as an agency leader of any capacity is when and how do you practice? When and how do you practice? Let me just answer that question. As an agency, when and how do you practice the play section, what is your set offense? Roger's already asked that question. What is your set offense? If you had a new producer, for example, come into your agency, would you say, this is our set offense. This is how we run plays. This is how we win for the state, for the state part the defense, again, we don't talk about renewals of Sitkins. We talk about continuations. What's your continuation process? How do you retain clients? Right, that's the same type of question. But what's your continuation process? Roger talked about being a specialist. So here's my question for you as an agency leader. What are you known for? What are you known for? People say, oh, that's the agency that does blank. Do you have that now? Maybe it's a few things, but what.

Are you known for?

He talked about coaches, and it's true. Every great player, I mean in industry, they have coaches. Why? Because they know there's more out there and they Want to get better. So here's my question. Who do you learn from as an agency? Who do you learn from today? Could be also peers and mentors, but who do you learn from? The season ticket holders. I love that. Roger. I hadn't really heard that before. The season ticket holders. Here's my question to you as an agency leader. Who cheers for you? Right? I mean, not that they're forced to be there. Who cheers for you? My next question was around. You talked about recruiting and. And of course, you kind of mentioned internal external recruiting, certainly for our teams and then for our clients. But to me, that's a culture question. Right? You think about the best sports teams. You know, part of the reason, even in the. If you get into, like, the professional leagues, when they're trying to sign a free agent, yeah, there's money that's involved. Don't get me wrong. People sign for money, but sometimes they sign for less money to come to a place that's a winner. Right? And that's a culture question. And so here's my question to you as an agency. Who does your culture currently attract? Culture is the normal language of behaviors. Who does your culture normally attract? Then Roger talked about having not having a scoreboard. This is pretty simple. What are you measuring and monitoring? I mean, obviously, talk to age. How are we doing? We're doing pretty good. I mean, like, no, like, what's the scoreboard? What are you measuring? What are you monitoring? The next one you talked about was no, scouting, Right. The idea of having a competitive advantage. So my question to you as an agency leader, what are your competitive advantages? What are your points of differentiation? What are your competitive advantages? What makes you stand out? And then the last thing was about the fact that, oh, individual versus team training. When you were talking about, I'm just going to. We're going to work with two of the running backs, not all five. Right. Or whatever the case may be, or just a few of the offensive linemen. Here's my question to you as agency leader. How are you training your entire team? How right now are you training and developing your entire team? By the way, your people are your most important asset of the agency. What are you doing to train and get the most out of them? Right? And in fact, you know, I just had a coaching call yesterday, and Roger, you know, you know this client very well, but they're committed to their people. And it was actually, it was interesting during the conversation. It came out and he said, well, my. My two goals are to grow my agency and to grow my People. And I said, can I challenge you a little bit? And I said, I know what you mean. I said, I know what you mean. But what if you flip that? What if your focus was how do I grow my people to grow my agency? He goes, gosh, I kind of thought that, but now that you said that, that's like duh, like blinding flash to me. I've got to be focused on growing my people. So those are just some questions that I came up with. Roger, again, they just came off what you said to Piggyback. I mean you already asked him indirectly. But any thoughts or comments on my 10 questions there?

Well, first of all, I love them. I think we just created a new tool and checklist we can use our members. But you know, as you're sitting there talking and you think about the great players, this popped into my mind. We talked about this before though, that these million dollar producers were consistently creating. Do you know that every million dollar producer started off as not being a million dollar producer? So sometimes people think like they just, they, they just were born and then they were a million or two million dollar producer. No. And, and as we've also said before, not everybody wants to be a million. For some of you, 5000-006007-00000 is great. But just keep that in mind that the ones that get to that level as, as you know, one of my favorite sayings now is that the person at the top of the mountain didn't fall there.

That's right.

The other thing is that when you look at an agency that over a 5 or 10 or 15 year time frame has grown 3, 4, 5 times bigger than they were, that means that over that same, when at the beginning of that time frame they weren't that big. So an agency that's gone, let's just say they've gone three times in 10 years. Whatever, the number doesn't matter. So where were they and what did they do differently? I'll guarantee you this, they didn't keep doing what they always did because if you do that, as we know, you always get what you, you've always got. So. And then your final thing about growing the people, your comment there, it's one of the things that we stress all the time with our CRO program Chief Revenue Officer program. The goal of the revenue officer, the sales manager, is not to improve sales, it's to improve salespeople who in turn improve sales. If we just keep those things in mind and realize that all of this is a journey, it's a movement towards that best Version possible. And isn't that what you want? My final thing, which is something I ask producers all the time and agency owners, look, if you're going to put the time in any way, why not be great at it?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Roger, as always, thank you for copping on. I know you got another appointment you got to get to and we certainly appreciate having you on here. And I mean like I said, I always learn something. I talk to you all the time and get the fortune to do that. But I know our listeners are well better off after hearing this and learning from you. So thank you for, for taking part of this today and I just want to share one last thought, you know, and my call to action to you is if any of this hit home for you, you know, there are really three main ways that you can work with us at Sitkins. And you know we talked a lot about producers. One of our most popular program is Producer Fit and our next program program starts at the end of March. So if you're interested in and you have a team of producers, you are a producer who wants to take the next step in your journey and up your game, be that super bowl champion, so to speak. Right. Go to sitkins.com profit p r o F I T and you can learn more about that. We talked a lot today though about training the entire agency and one of the things we created in the end of 2020 and now into this year is an all inclusive membership, an all inclusive model where every single person of a client facing person on your agency team has the opportunity to go through our trainings and programs and our tools and resources and then you go to sitkins.com aim that's for all inclusive model, all inclusive membership that you can, you can look and learn about that. And again our next programs are rolling out here very soon so it's a great time to get involved and get ready for that. And then if you're an agency that wants to have the highest level coaching, to have an assessment to put together a, a deep playbook into our risk concierge sales program, have private coaching. We also have our private client program as well. So you can check that out. So thanks again to you to Roger. Thanks for the listener. I wish you all the best in your success. Thanks so much.