Agency Selling Systems

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Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Excited to be with you for another episode and we have a very special guest again on this episode. Roger Sitkins, the CEO of Sitkins Group is joining me today and we're going to be talking about your agency selling system, your set offense, an agency's way of doing business, what that looks like and the importance of it on today's podcast episode. So excited to to ask Roger some questions and get his insight on this really important subject and topic. Before I get into to Roger and do a formal introduction and get into the the content today, want to make sure I reference our upcoming event. This is our world class event, Profit Net professional fitness networking, March 11th through the 13th in Cape Coral, Florida. This is a high level mastermind event. We're going to have some dynamic speakers, some coaching workshops, and most importantly, just a chance for agency leaders that the best of the best to get together and discuss important issues and put together an action plan. So I know we're getting very close to the deadline when many of you are listening to this, but if this is before March 11, there may still be time to get in. So check, check us out and see if there's still an opportunity. Go to sitkins.com, s I t k I n s.com and you can go profit net. Go to sitkins.com and you'll see the information on profit knit there on our site. So with that, I want to dive in today's content and first and foremost introduce again our very special guest. I think he'll be more of a frequent special guest as we move forward in this podcast if he agrees to do so. But Roger, welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you. It's great to be here and great to share some information today again.

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, as I said on the top of this, top of this podcast episode, we're going to talk about an agency selling system. I know, Roger. We, you know, work with our private client members in depth about developing that set offense, that agency playbook, whatever you want to call it. I want to first start off by just asking you a question because again, this is not to, to, to say that you're old, Roger, by any means. All right? But you've been doing this for a while. You know, you know the agency game, you've worked with, I mean thousands of producers, you've worked with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of agencies. My question to you, first and foremost is, you know, how many agencies that you've worked with over the years or you've seen out there, you know, speaking, training, have a true selling system, a process, a set offense.

Well, the ones we work with wind up having one. The ones that we haven't worked with yet, it's less than 10%. Agencies just don't have the thought process around about what is the process, what is the selling system that we're following. And so it's less than 10%.

Brent, you know, it's interesting. Again, we've talked about this privately, and as you said, I mean, what's. One of the things that we work very closely with our members is to put together that set game plan. But for just in the general public, you know, the majority of agencies out there that may be listening to this right now, you know, first of all, I guess two questions I want to ask you, Roger. Why do most agencies not have one, and why is it so important that they begin to develop one?

Well, why they don't have one is they don't have to have one. As you've shared and we've shared through the years, you can do okay. You can make really good money in this business, just kind of following hysterical activity on the way to the grave. So it's not like they have to do it. But the ones that really get committed, they're on that journey to the top of the industry. And being that top 2% of producers and top 2% of agencies, they get real serious about it. You know, for so many of them, the, the old way of selling the commodity game of look, copy, quote and pray still works. And so they can just, they can go out there, they can get well known, they can meet some people, networking events, they can do a lot of what we refer to as practice quoting and unpaid consulting, have a pretty low closing ratio, pretty empty pipeline. But at the end of the day, they're still going to do okay. And to me, that's one of the things that, that hurts the industry is you don't have to be what we would consider always the professionally fit. You don't have to be professionally fit to do pretty darn well. But if you're going to be great at it, then you darn well better start differentiating through a set offense.

Yeah, you know, one of the analogy that, you know, Roger, I love to use sports analogies, but, you know, we like to turn the set offense. You know, what, what is your agency running around? What's the game plan? And just imagine a professional sports team, since you use that term, and they just walk out into the field, the court the rink, whatever it. And they have literally no game plan. It just doesn't make sense. But yet many agencies don't. And they, as you said, they get away with it, you know, because the industry's so good. What would be, you know, and you know, Roger, you've had the fortune and worked really hard and had a lot of success in working with some agencies over the years. Some agencies we're currently working with now, some in the past that have begun to put together an agency playbook, set offense that have had a great level of success. What's been the impact that you've seen for those agencies that do put something in place?

Well, the impact is really simple. It's about selling more, retaining more and earning more. They're selling more than the average agency sells. I saw an update just last week out of the Reagan where the best practices agencies are right at about a 6% growth rate again. And yet the agencies that have the set offense ones we work with, they're two, three, even four times the national average. So the impact is certainly selling more. Another big part of the overall system is how do we retain more. One of the beauties of the business. Not only is it pretty easy to build a decent sized book of business, even not doing a great job, you're going to have 88 to 92% retention. So we want to do of course, not only sell more, but then retain more. How do we get to 99% effective retention? And ultimately then you're going to earn more. Why? Because you're selling more, retaining more and you're going to earn more. Especially if the agency itself has a financial model that's based upon creating an operating profit of 25, 30, 35% and more, then everybody earns more. So it's a great impact on the agency if they're willing to make some tough changes.

That's really the question isn't are they willing to make some of the tough changes? And really what I heard you say there, Roger, is just putting yourself in the best position to win and to be successful. And that takes some effort. And you also mentioned too about the retain war. That's a big part of that in our playbook that we work with members on. There's three parts to it. There's prepar, that's the first part you talked about putting yourself in position, doing those things culture wise and getting yourself ready, your agency ready and positioned to do the right things. And then of course go out there and play the game at a high level, be able to have those Conversations and then the retain more part, the continuation process. What does that look like? So those are all key parts of an entire agency playbook. Now that I kind of said very high level, Roger. Some things that we do, just what do you see? What does, you know, because there's probably some agency leaders right now listening. That's going well. I don't even really know what this looks like. I mean, what does an agency selling system even look like? Can you provide some examples that you've seen in the past?

Sure. Well, if you just go real basic, what does a selling system look like? It's how you play the game. It's how you score points, as you're saying. But it really falls into three things. What's the purpose, what's the process, and what's the payoff? And this is when we're talking to future ideal clients. What's the, what's the purpose of the approach we're taking? What's the process we're gonna take you through? And then what's the payoff to you as a future ideal client or a future client of our agency? And when I talk to agency owners, when they call in and they say, hey, we've heard about what you guys are doing and we really like to learn a little bit more. And I'll ask them some key questions. And one of them is just around the selling process. What's the process you have that differentiates you in the marketplace that gets people to do business with you at a very, very high level? What's the process you have in place that eliminates that practice quoting and unpaid consulting that has you dealing with super qualified people? Future ideal clients only. And you differentiate to the point that you have a closing ratio of 75% or more. And when I ask them questions like that, the answer is, well, we, you know, we don't really have a process. I mean, we've got. And you know, they fall into what you talk about all the time. There's generic five, where you've got great and great people in all the markets and we'll save you money and we're local type stuff, but really a process. When I ask them that, they look at me with just a blank look. So, like a cat watching tv, you know, they really don't have a process. So when we look at it, it's just, you know, what's. What's the purpose of the selling system? Well, we believe the purpose of the selling system as it relates to the future ideal client is either to help them control their total Cost of risk or total cost of benefits. And number two, we help them look better to the insurance marketplace. Because what we do is we take the underwriter's view. We know what an underwriter looks at on a specific class of business and we know how to get that client, that future ideal client, positioned in a right way where they're going to get the best combination of coverages, services and pricing. So that's the purpose of it, the process which we know is crucial and we believe it's a three step process of taking this person through an executive briefing, then a workshop and then developing a plan for them. So the executive briefing in our perfect, perfect model, and let's all understand it's not a perfect world out there, but in the perfect model, the executive briefing is when you're meeting with which you've identified as a Future Ideal Client 6 months in advance of their anniversary date. So many agents and agencies wait until 60 or 90 days before the expiration date. All their marketing is built around the expiration date. And when they're in there on top of the expiration date, so is everybody else. So our goal, and we have some very specific strategies, as you know, of how you get that six month anniversary appointment. Because it's some things you've got to say totally different, but getting in there, doing your upfront research, knowing the questions you're going to ask them before you go in the door, learning more about their business and how they handle risk or their benefits plan today, and then presenting a very brief executive briefing. A very brief executive briefing and that's 8 to 10 minutes of here's the purpose, here's the process, here's the payoff for you. So that first appointment is really all about super qualifying and making the decision at the end of the first appointment, is this somebody I'm willing to invest any more of my time? My only diminishing asset with. Well, for most producers, because they have empty pipelines, every prospect's a great prospect, you know, you never know, might get lucky. But the best producers that we work with, especially when they've got their pipelines overflowing with the classic more, more opportunities than time, then they can take the time to say, okay, is this somebody I want to invest any more time with? Assuming they do, then they would move forward to what we call the, you know, our whole system of course, is the risk concierge approach. We would work move forward to a workshop where we would specifically go through and on the P and C side do industry specific risk surveys to find out exactly what the coverage gaps, coverage concerns are and how we can impact their total cost of risk. And then the third step is to come back and present what we refer to as ramp risk assessment and risk management plan, where we're saying, here's what we found. Here are the gaps in your coverage. Here's how we can improve your overall insurance program. Now, we're not going to do that for a minimum premium BoP, but assuming that we're going after those future ideal clients, then they're worth investing the time. So long answer. But that's the overall process. And the key here is that it's driven by points of differentiation. And what is it about the things that we do as an agency that are different than the competitors? So that's how I would set it up.

Love that. And I would just say this, just to piggyback a little bit, a couple thoughts. As you were saying that, I had. My. My brain was filling up with thoughts, Roger. And that's why we're dangerous when we get together and have conversations. But, but, you know, one of the things that you said was it starts with points of differentiation. And, you know, I always say this in the room to our producers. And I said, you know, it's really hard to have a differentiated sales process when you don't know how you're different. And, you know, and I've done, you know, I've done a podcast on points of differentiation. I talk a lot about that, so you can go back and listen to that. But I think the other thing that I heard within that was that, you know, really, from the upfront, what that does, the purpose, process, payoff, is that it does change the conversation, you know, right from the bat. And it shows that you're different, that the way you talk, the things that you're doing are different. Your process is, of course, different. And it's a matter of going deeper because I think so many agencies play so shallow, and, you know, you can catch a lot of little fish and get by, you know, going shallow, but to go deep is the challenge and then to stay deep. And I don't want to steal on your thunder, because maybe you were going to say this, but I just think it fits. Is that what I love about going through a real selling process is that the client ultimately designs their risk management program that they buy from you, which is pretty cool. And that's what you're talking about when you go through the executive briefing to tell your story and then into the workshop and just keep going deeper. So, yep, really good Thoughts there.

And if you think about it, the, the payoff for the person that now becomes a client is that we, they have a, they finally have a plan and we always trust that's a three year rolling plan. If you're dealing on just a one year plan and then you've got the dreaded event known as the renewal every year, then you're just playing the game like everybody else. But the payoff for the now the client is number one. We're going to show them specifically how they can control it doesn't necessarily mean we can reduce their cost of risk, but we can certainly show them the things that help them control their total cost of risk or total cost of benefits. That's because we always have a three year rolling plan strategies in place of what we're going to do this year, next year and the third year to help them improve. Because as you experience all the time with the agencies we work with and the producers, when they really go deep into a nice future, ideal client, there are more things that need to be fixed than you can possibly solve in one year. That's great news. That means you're building in increased retention right there. So it just changes everything. And I think another big part of this, and it's one of the sayings that you and I use all the time in the producer programs and it always gets a laugh, but I say, you know, think about it, in the medical world, in the medical world, prescription without proper diagnosis is malpractice. Well, in our business it's the same exact thing. And it just absolutely continues to stun me. And yeah, like you said, I've been doing this a long time. It still stuns me, shocks me when, when I ask a group of PNC producers, how many of you on every one of your A and B accounts, the top 20% of your customers that are 80% of your revenues, how many of you have completed a risk survey on every one of those customer industry specific risk survey. And if it's a group that's just starting with us, it's less than 20% that say they have that in place. So the beauty of the process is that the bar is pretty darn low in our industry. And if you'll just go in there and follow a process, explain to people what you're going to do. Because most agents just kind of, they walk in like we said, look, copy, quote and pray. They take copious notes on a yellow legal pad, leave and come back with a quote versus saying hey, here are the things we're gonna do to impact your overall business. So there's a real payoff for the future ideal client. Now the client. It's crucial. So again, bar's low. Let's get in there and do the things that 95 to 98% of agencies and producers don't do. Just how you start differentiating, you're gonna.

Send me on a rant, Roger. Cause as you were saying that, I was just thinking about some of the frustrations, and we hear this obviously from agency leaders and producers, but. Well, yeah, you know, everybody just thinks we're a commodity, and it's really hard to get off this. It's like, well, because you're playing the same game everybody else is. You know, you've got it. You've got to step up your game a little bit. You can't expect the clients that are just, you know, the future ideal clients that are just. They're just saturated with the message that, you know, quick, easy, fast, cheap, and that's what they hear over and over and over again. And you've got to step up your game to be able to position yourself and have a strategy and do some preparation work. All those kind of things that when you walk into an appointment or have a phone call or even the initial letter that we talk about that, it looks and sounds different. But unfortunately, as you've already said, a lot of agencies and producers aren't really, really willing to do some of that upfront work requires to make the selling process actually a little bit easier. They'd rather just play the same game and throw enough stuff at the wall and enough will stick, and we'll just move on and keep doing this for the next 10, 20, 30 years. So, anyway, rant over. I have another question here, Roger, and this is. I don't want to call this the magic bullet question, because there does not exist a magic bullet question. But one of the biggest frustrations when I talk with agencies is how do I get, you know, I've got good intentions and let's pretend I'll play the role of the insurance agency leader, Roger. And you can counsel me. You know, I've got good intentions of trying to get my team, my producers on the same page and getting to do some similar things kind of a way that we're going to do business. But I can just never get it done. It never happens. Help me, Roger. Why? Why can't I do this?

Well, all too often, because there's always a bright and shiny. There's always another squirrel we can chase. There's something new and exciting. We chase this, we chase that. And the team members know that it'll probably pass. And they literally will get together. And you and I laugh about this all the time. The team members will get together and say, don't worry, this too shall pass. You know, they'll have another idea, then another idea and another idea. But overall, we're doing okay. And even without doing much, we're still growing at 6%. Isn't the world great? Is this a great business? And so what happens is it takes leaders who actually lead. And I know obviously I'm preaching to the choir here with you, but it's leaders who actually lead and say, okay, the way we're doing business isn't what's going to really get us to where we want to go. There's a great saying, is your destination and your direction, do they match? In other words, the direction you're on today, are they really taking you to the destination you really want? So just think what's happening in your agency right now, today, in any of the areas, and look out three to five years. If you don't do anything differently, are you going to be at the destination you really want? Well, for most agency principals, the answer is no, especially people that are taking the time, investing the time to listen to podcasts like this and get better. So it starts with leaders who say, you know what? I'm not happy with the direction we're on today. It's not going to get us to where we want to go. Then we've got to get the team members to buy in. And the big frustration is, can we get everybody on the team to have a why? Why are we doing this? And it's really two whys. Why for them as individuals. And a lot of them are saying, well, I don't really need to make any more money. Okay, but what if you did? What would happen? What could you do for others if you made more money? How would it make your family more secure? How would it make your community more secure, your church, whatever it's important to you. Get a big enough why as an individual, and then the agency itself having a big enough why? Why are we doing this? The other thing, and I just had a conversation yesterday with an agency that wanted to join the network, and it looks like we're going to be moving forward with them. We're going to do a workshop to see if there's truly a fit. But we got into a discussion, the producers not producing at the level they should. And some of these producers are shareholders, and there's a great saying that be cautious of deadbeat shareholders because they're not bringing more value, they're just along for the ride. And let's just say they're not even a shareholder. Let's say they're a producer who is working towards becoming a shareholder. Does that producer have a responsibility to generate more revenue? Well, if you care about your team at all, the answer is yes, because the only way those team members who are there to support your efforts can make more money is if the agency grows at a greater rate than it currently is. So think about that. So the why is a huge part of it. And then it's. And you mentioned this already, we've got to get all of the people that are willing to take on some new things to be part of the design. We've got to get them offering input. Because the biggest mistake I see in today's world amongst many is is where the agency owner comes in and says, all right, everybody, here's a new thing we're doing. Let's go do it. And people don't buy in, as you said earlier. So it's getting people to buy in. A great example. You already mentioned it, and so have I. The points of differentiation. Let's get everybody to agree upon what are the five points of differentiation. What are the five reasons people should do business with our agency? And it's not the generic five. So that's a big part of it then. The other one is, is the concept that we preach all the time, flexibility without dilution. Where a lot of agencies fall apart on actual execution of their strategies, is that everybody thinks everybody has to do everything exactly the same way. Now, we're big proponents of identifying the agency's way of doing business, but it's not chiseled and granite. We basically say, here are some core things we believe. Like, we believe in super qualifying. We believe in future ideal clients only. We believe that you do an executive briefing for super qualifying, then you take them through the workshop where you're doing assessment, and then you create a plan within that. Everybody's got a little bit different personality Now. This is not scripted selling from a million years ago. This is basically saying, here's the purpose, here's the process, here's the payoff. How you talk about it as an individual, I'm fine with some flexibility, but all of you listening, be cautious of this. What I see all too often is people who give you lip service on wanting to change don't really change. And what they do is they take what you've proposed even take what they've said they bought into and they keep diluting it down to what they always used to do. They might call it something different, but when you really dive deep, they're still doing what they always did. It's just called something different. So it's all about getting everybody in the same basic path but allowing some flexibility again without dilution.

Well, you said the word at the end there, Roger, deep. And it just, it's just so prevalent this year. It's actually my theme in 2020. And you know, I read the book, I know you're reading the book Deep Work by Cal Newport, but that goes back we said earlier, I mean it was the sales process go deeper for an agency leader that you want to get buy in, you want to improve the culture. Because as you said, if I'm just going to say here's our new process, people are going to say, oh whatever, you know, here he, here they go again, you know, versus this is real. And to go deep, to really understand, as you said, Roger, the why and the beliefs that we have as an agency, the beliefs that we really have as an individual and you know, this has been around for a long time but I truly believe that beliefs do drive behavior. And until we really understand that and go deep and say this is real, this is what we're about, you know, and I don't want to say put your flag in the ground but to some degree it's what you're doing, you know, this is who we are and stick with that. That's going deep. And I think that you said that really, really well about, you know, culture and the why behind that. So thanks for sharing that Roger. Here's my last question before we wrap up. And this may be a little self serving because. But that's okay, I'm okay with that. But here's what I would say, Roger, if you were an agency and you're maybe plateaued or you know, you're kind of complacent, things are okay, things are good. But you know, there's so much more opportunity there just to expand, to be your best version and you don't have any type of playbook or selling system, where would you start?

Well, to be self serving, I know exactly where I'd start. I'd come and talk to us and what we do isn't for everybody. I mean we understand that, we realize that it's got to be an agency that's really committed to doing things better than they used to do. But I would say this I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel. Something that I read a couple years ago, and it really hit home is that trial and error takes way too long, and quite frankly, it's way too expensive. Don't reinvent that wheel. There's a system out there. There's a playbook out there that you can follow. But I would certainly start with, if I was just going to do it on my own, I would start with a discussion around a couple things. I would get my team together, my sales team together, and sales and service really together, and just say, what are the points of differentiation? What are five things we do better than anybody else? Why should a future ideal client care about it? And what's a piece of evidence we can show? And I know you've talked about this on your podcast before, but I would start with the pods. What are the points of differentiation? And then I would also start with an internal discussion. Okay, what's our selling system, our process? I remember several years ago when I asked an agency leader about that, I said, what's your process? And he looked at me and he said, I just realized I've been winging it for 20 years now. And then he added, and I've done okay, but I've not done great. And the biggest problem I see with winging it is that you can't replicate it. So when people say, well, you know, it's hard time, it's hard to attract new salespeople, well, if your process is winging it, you're not going to attract the best salespeople. The best want to know there's a process they can follow that if they. And when they follow it, if and when they follow it, they're going to be very successful. And what we know is when you have the right process in place that's supported by the right culture, the results are predictable and, in fact, guaranteed. So I'd start with the pods in the process. And then something that you've really brought into our culture is the concept of clarity, consistency, and commitment. So is there real clarity in the organization about where they're going? Because once you get clarity, that's going to lead to mastery. Is there consistency? Is there the agency's way of doing business? And of course, flexibility without dilution. And then the commitment, which is at the end of the day, I guess if I had to pick one thing, it is the commitment. It's the leaders holding themselves and others accountable. And so it's a culture of accountability, but equally important, it's a cadence of accountability. How Often are we holding people accountable? So I would start just with those few discussions to see where it goes and then say, all right, are there outsources out there resources out there that we should at least have a conversation with? And certainly, again, we're not for everybody. We understand that. But don't reinvent the wheel, because it's already out there.

Well, Roger, I always learn things in talking with you. And even though we've had conversations around this many times, many, many, many times, there's always new nuggets and thoughts and just get me thinking differently. So I first of all appreciate coming on and taking some time to talk through this. This is a really critical issue. And as you said on the out, you know, the outset of this podcast, that, you know, less than 10% of agencies really have a playbook or an agency selling system, and there's such opportunity out there for agencies that are, that are willing to take that jump. So thank you, Roger, for being on today and any final comments or words before we wrap up?

Well, if your agency is your largest or one of your largest personal assets, I think it's worth investing in you as an individual producer. Absolutely. The best investment you can possibly make is in yourself. Don't wait to be great. Make an investment in yourself. That's where you're going to get the best return. And then at the end of your career, you're not going to have any regrets.

Very well said indeed. So, well, thanks for listening and I'll just wrap up with just a couple call to action because again, I think, you know, one of the things that we want to practice, that we preach and we believe in what we do, and that's why I love having Roger on here, is this. This works. The things that we talk about and you know, whether joining the Sidkins network is right for you, your agency, I don't know. And, you know, we're very upfront about that. We're not for everybody, as Roger alluded to. But I will tell you just a few things. And Roger said this already. You know, if you're really looking for clarity and, you know, where am I really trying to go? What is the vision? What is the mission of the agency? What's one of the things you really want to help you with, to give you some direction and give you some, you know, some clear thoughts and push out some of the noise and the confusion that's out there in the world and then just consistency. And one of the things we talked about today that leads right into consistency is that we do have a customizable playbook from preparing to playing to staying all the way through the process. And you know, this is customizable for our members to tailor to your agency. It's not cookie cutter. We've got the template in the roadmap, but it's got to be designed for your particular agency. And then last, as Roger said, is that investment in yourself itself. It's a commitment. And you know, when you make a commitment, it's a big step. And we get that. But why would you not if there's something that's important to you, why would you not commit to having coaches and peers around you to hold you to the highest standard to be your best version possible? And so again, that's my call to action. We'd love to have a conversation with you. If you're an agency again, whether you're an agency that's maybe stuck in a plateau, maybe you're an agency that just looking for greater directions and processes, maybe you're looking for more accountability. Whatever it is, we'd love to have a conversation with you. And the last thing, too, again, profit net, March 11th through the 13th. Time is running short. And if you want to be in the room, go check us out again. Sitkins.coms I t k I n s.com with that, I wish you and your agency all the best in your success. Thanks for listening.