Building a Thriving Insurance Agency: Insights from Bravera Leaders

Two of the most important qualities in high level agency leadership is clarity and communication. On today's Agent Leader podcast, I have a fantastic interview with two rising star leaders of Bravera Insurance. I interview Brendan Quintis and Tess Brigandi and they're going to share their roadmap and what they've learned, good and bad, in developing positive change, positive mindset, and positive results in their agency. You don't want to miss this interview. Tons of notes. So. So get ready. Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. This is the podcast for insurance agency leaders to learn, to grow, to develop, and ultimately become their best version possible. Which, if you're watching the video, I actually have a graphic of our best version possible book reminder. You can go check it out and get your own copy. Go to sitkins.com bvp and in that book, we talk about a lot of different systems and processes and how we deal with people. And on today's podcast, I have two fantastic guests with me that I'm excited. They're also partners with us at the Sidkins Network and we're excited to have them on. And, and they're. They'll talk about their experience. A little bit of newer members, but very engaged. In fact, they've probably seen a lot of me and now they have to see more of me. On this interview, I've got Brendan Quintis, who's the president and CEO, and Tess Brigandi. Did I say it right? Tess?

Yes.

Oh, I was, I was so worried about that. And she helped me out. Tess Brigandi and test client experience officer. Do I have that right as well?

An experienced manager.

Manager. Oh, my gosh. All right, so I've got two great leaders from, from Bravera Insurance. So first and foremost, Brendan and Tess. Welcome.

Thanks, Brent. We're definitely honored to, to be asked to be on. So thank you.

Yeah, excited to be with you. And a lot of things to, to unpack and uncover, and we will. And I think one of the things that we're definitely going to get into that you gu on is just relationship and culture of your team and your people. So I can't wait to have some conversation with that. But before we go down that path, I want the audience to get to know both of you a little bit better. Just kind of know who you are, where you came from, how you got to where you're at, and. And we'll go from there. So I would say ladies first. So, Tess, go ahead. You get, you get to hop up and share your background.

Yeah, sounds good. So I'VE been in the industry for 10 years. I started off with SK State Farm. I was with them for five years before I moved independent. When I first came independent, I started in operations and just really expanded from there. So now I work with a lot of our external facing teams, claims, benefits, personal lines and ag. So I guess you could say my background's primarily personal lines. I think coming from a captive, especially one as large as State Farm, definitely gave me a unique perspective on how we do things in the independent industry. And it's been fun to learn a whole different world of insurance over the last five years. And I understand why people go independent and don't go back.

That's right. Well, I always, I would get to Brendan, I always tell people, I said, probably set this podcast. I said, you know, the best thing about being independent is you're independent. You can kind of do the things you want to do. And I said, the hardest part of being independent is you're independent. You can kind of do the things you want to do. So it gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility, but also like, oh, am I making the right decision? Are we doing the right things? I do want to give a quick shout out before I go to Brennan because we were joking before. And again, they are bravaira as members of our, of our, of our programs and our network and a relationship partner. And Tess is like a sponge. She's in the sessions and she's learning and she's taking notes and she's asking questions and there's a lot to learn. So I can't wait to get more of your feedback and your experience, Tess, as we move forward. All right, Brennan, now we'll go to you. Give us your story, sir.

Yeah. So I've been in the insurance industry since College. I started 16 years ago with a carrier called Federated Insurance and was lucky enough to be part of their marketing development program and sold for Federated right after that and then transitioned. Kind of ping ponged a little bit throughout the industry, both on the carrier side and the independent side. I've been a producer, been in leadership with insurance companies and now have been at Bravera for just over a year as the. The president CEO of, of the agency and Rivera Insurance overall. We're an agency primarily located in North Dakota with locations throughout North Dakota. We do have a location in Montana as well with a focus on commercial insurance. Then we get into personal lines as Tess mentioned. Ag we've got a great crop insurance practice as well that we've got a lot of experts within that industry, on that side of the industry, you know, throughout. Throughout North Dakota and into Montana. And so kind of all across the spectrum and all throughout North Dakota.

Hey, Brenda, how many. Just overall. How many people overall? How many offices? What's the scope again? You're based primarily in North Dakota.

Yeah, we've got. Tess, you're going to have to correct me. I think we've got nine locations, 60 people, and like I said, spread throughout North Dakota. And then we've got one location in Montana.

That's awesome. Yeah, a lot of growth. And I know Brennan is a. Is a humble but very successful gentleman. And I'll just preface by saying that he also just got awarded 40 under 40, top 40, and 40 in your area. And listen, that means a lot. And I was, you know, talking to both of them before we started recording, and I realized, gosh, either one of you have been in the business that long, I started to already feel like a dinosaur because I've now been in the business coming up on 25 years. So both of you, again, congratulations on your eyes and your success and just the overall success of the agency, because you are growing very much and again, pouring in more to your team, your processes, your strategies, and super exciting to see. So I always like to start with wins. I like to talk about success. I think it's a great way to kick off a conversation. And I'm gonna leave this just super open to start. There's specific things I want to get into based on some things you're all doing, and maybe we go that direction. But I would just like to know this. If there is a. A success, a win, an accomplishment, and this is your bragging portion. And by the way, other agencies listing might go, oh, I like that. Maybe we should take that. Because I always talk to agencies, by the way, and they're like, well, you know, we don't do anything special. I'm like, yes, you do. Yes, you do. People need to know, so. And again, I don't care who goes first on this one, but what would be a success or accomplishment that, you know, whether it's the past six months, year, two years that you're really proud of and you feel good about that Braveria is accomplishing right now.

Yeah. Well, to start, I would first say we've got a long ways to go. Right. And I think every agency would probably look in the mirror and say, yeah, we've got a long ways to go. We certainly do as well. But one thing that I think we're all proud of at Bravara Insurance, particularly looking at the, the last year is, is I would frame it as clarity. Like I mentioned in my intro, I started with our agency about a year ago and, and you know, when I, when I came on board we were, I actually use the analogy in employee meetings of a ship that just kind of spinning in the ocean. Some days you feel like you're making progress, other days you're kind of flatlining maybe, you know, some days you're moving backwards and you're just kind of spinning right. And, and I think a lot of that came from our team just rowing in different directions. Not quite everybody was, you know, we've got a great team, they all work their, their tails off and, and, but I think we were just rowing in different directions which created that effect of, of just spinning in the ocean. And so we, when I, when I came on board we spent a lot of time doing some, some soul searching and some strategic planning around, you know, how can we get this everybody rolling in the same direction and making progress as an organization. And that's really where we came to the realization we wanted to partner with Sitkins. But one thing that, like I said, you know, creating that clarity as an organization has really allowed us to focus on doing the right things within each role. So our focus in 2025 frankly is clarity and accountability around how everyone within the organization contributes to our success. And we've gotten into a quarter focus of different Sitkins concepts that we'll have throughout 2025. Our first quarter focus was blue zone, green zone, red zone, making sure that we're operating in the blue and green zone as, as much as possible with all of our teams. And I think that's, that's really positioned us well to see success early in 2025. Again. We've got a long ways to go, but we've seen overall total income growth of 20% year over year. In 2025, our net income has grown 550% year over year. So we've spent a lot of time working on our business, both the internal aspects of it, but then the external aspects of sales and service. And as we started our partnership with Sitkins, we of course went down the one page business planning route and said what is it going to take to, to really move the needle for our agency and so identify those critical success success factors for us, which was developing a sales culture with accountable advisors, but then a customer centric service culture that allows us to retain the clients that we want to retain as well. And so being very intentional about developing clarity and I think that's been a success of ours over the last six months, especially since we've partnered with Sitkins. And I think we're starting to see the benefit of having that clarity. But we still have certainly a long ways to go and we're continuing to refine that blue zone, green zone, red zone, continuing to refine those HPT meetings and continuing now to refine the pipeline management pipeline development. We're going to actually have a quarterly pipeline retreat, our first one ever as an agency coming up here in a couple of weeks. And so we're excited about that. But yeah, being very intentional about developing clarity within our agency around again, how everyone contributes to our success.

Yeah, I've got like seven follow up questions to that, but I want to make sure I get, I get to test. I would just, I would say this, I don't know if you will agree with this and maybe we had some initial discussions before you officially join, but I always stay with agencies. I know it sounds like a silly question, but I'm like, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? And you know, I kind of have fun with that. But I think, you know, Brennan, to your point, there's a lot of that where it's like, gosh, what does that look like? What do we really want to be? And then, well, to do that, what do our people need to, to do? And you know, the only thing I'll add for now, and I'm sure I'll have some thought questions is, you know, it comes to accountability and we talk about, you mentioned roles and understanding kind of, you know, where they fit, right. And what they should be doing and focusing on. One of the biggest problems we see with accountability is that if you get really honest with agencies, they're not quite sure what they should be accountable for or to, to like, it's like, yeah, I know. Yeah, we should, I don't know, I don't know what it is I should be accountable to. I do a bunch of stuff. So I think you know, the word you said clarity. And we'll come back to that, Brandon, because it's so powerful is very important. So thanks for sharing that. All right, Tess, what jumps out at you?

Yeah, I think one of the wins that's been most exciting for me to see, you know, since Brennan joined our agency and then our partnership with Sickens is the changes in the teams. We've seen momentum, we've seen excitement, and that's just, just, it's encouraging, but it's contagious too. And so seeing that spread through our teams and the changes in them, the excitement, winning new business or, you know, working together, collaborating, it's been really fun to see that just expand and grow for the last year.

Yeah, it's really good. I. I guess I don't know if you all agree with this or not, but I especially talked about producers, advisors, whatever the title is. But, I mean, this is true for lots of people, even leaders. It could be a lonely business if you're not careful. Like, it can be like, I feel like I'm on this island doing this thing, and, like, do people really understand what's going on? And do they relate with me? And, you know, how does what I do fit with other people? And do they even care? I mean, you can go down the list of these questions, and it can be so to hear that test of, like, there's this bit of, like, joint excitement that, yeah, there's individual responsibilities, but we're going and growing somewhere together is. Is, to me, super powerful. And you think about this. I mean, as you both know, I. And I. I preface this, but I overuse sports analogies just because it's what I like. But it's true in team sports, like, you can have great individuals. But I mean, think about it. It's like, there's. There's not only more success in teamwork, there's just more fulfillment and enjoyment in the fact that not only am I doing my thing, but I'm helping to bring someone along with me, or we're doing things together. And I mean, like, how fun it is. Like, win a championship and then go to your locker room by yourself and be like, yay. Like, no, like, you want to celebrate together, right? We've done some stuff. So I think that's really, really cool, you know, Brendan, to go back and use the word clarity. And again, I'm trying to think of how I want to phrase. Phrase my thought question here, because you said it's kind of like we're spinning in the ocean leading into that maybe this will get to a frustration. Like, where did you see? You know, obviously, the opposite of clarity is. I can say lack of clarity, right? Uncertainty, doubt, confusion, whatever it is, where did you see or maybe still see some of it? Your people struggling with that? Like, is it not maybe sure of where are we going? What does it look like? How does my role fit? Like, what are some examples that maybe you saw as you kind of, you know, started your role here going, okay, I see some areas where there's definitely a lack of clarity.

Yeah, I think the number one thing that I noticed when I came on board was just the lack of direction. I think we as an agency, you know, insurance is fairly basic, right? I mean, especially on the agency side, it's a sales business. And so, you know, in order to be successful, you've got to be, you gotta be selling. And everybody I think within the agency understood that. But again, not having a clear direction of where we want to be as an agency, how we want to sell, what, you know, taking, having the right perspective as we're selling, both as an advisor and as a service team, but just giving that direction for the agency of, you know what, this is where we're going to be in say 2028. And these are the steps that we're going to take in order to get there. And one thing that I think is very helpful for us at Bravera, we're a bank owned insurance agency, right? And I think a lot of times, you know, the bank owned insurance agencies get a little bit of a bad rap or you think of just that sleepy insurance agency office that only writes the referrals that come in the door and they're not actively out, you know, prospecting and writing new business on their own. And bravira insurance, we're the opposite of that. We're very much, you know, able to execute on our own how we want to execute through the independent agency model and through a sales process that we can develop ourselves. But we also have the benefit of an entire organization throughout Bravera. You know, Bravera is our holding company. We've got our bank, we've got our wealth and we've got insurance. And so throughout that process we can tap into the resources that are available to us organization wide. And some of the things that we do as an organization are, we call it our aspiration or our planning process that we say, okay, in 2028, where do we want to be? And so as an organization we did that. We were able to tap into that as an agency and say, okay, by 2028 we want to be at X amount revenue, this level of profitability, this level of revenue per employee. And then we can kind of back into it. Okay, how are we going to get there, right? And what are the levers and button levers that we'll have to pull and buttons that we're going to have to push in order to do that? And you just get simpler and simpler as you're going through that process. And so that was probably the biggest thing that jumped out to me was just giving that Solid direction at Bravera. Prior to me coming on board, we had leaders of the agency that weren't insurance professionals. They came from other areas of the financial services industry throughout Bravera's organization. And so I think that allowed me then to step in and give that direction from an insurance perspective of this is, this is how we're going to accomplish our goals, you know, and we had an opportunity then with, like I said, a great team already in place that once we were able to say this is where we're heading, it allowed us then to roll in the same direction. And we're certainly not perfect. We still have our fair share of challenges that we're working through, but I think just giving that direction has been. Been very helpful.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting Brendan just said that first of all, you know, so the bank owned agency know we have several now in our, in our network and our partnership. In fact, I know you, you know, at least one, not two of them, but you know, kind of in that network and they're doing really well. And it's interesting. You're right, right. There's this idea of like, oh, we can kind of just relax through and there's some referrals coming and we'll get through it. But when you, when you have the right philosophy, and I want to use that word because I think that's what you're hitting on and you be able to tap into the resources and the people and the systems you have around you, well then it becomes like this accelerant. Right now we're doing these right things, but we have the support. A lot of agencies don't have to some degree, it's some other opportunities. So I think it's take advantage of a great opportunity. And the other thing too, that hits me on that run, as you said, is the, you know, this idea that the internal drives the external and Right. Understanding some of those things are critical, critically important as you move forward. And last thing I want to say, I use analogy a lot. I love how you, you phrase it, Brennan, but I always tell people, I'm like, if a really, even if it's a really nice car, like if it pulled up in front of your office today and we're like, hey, get in. You're like, okay, like, where are we going? I don't know, like, just get in, it'll be fun. You're like, no, I'm good. Right. But obviously you know, the analogy there is like, no, it's going specifically here for this purpose. Like, oh, I want to go there. And that, to me, is what great visionary leaders do, right? Is they begin to paint a picture. And it's never perfect. It's never, you know, it's never gonna be perfect. You don't know, things happen. But to be able to paint some type of picture or vision of the future that people say, that's interesting, that compels me. I'd like to, I'd like to go that direction. And so, again, kudos to you and your leadership team for, for setting that vision. Brennan. Hey there, Agent leader Brent Kelly here want to take just a few seconds to remind you that now is the time to create your true, best version possible agency. If you go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we'll get to know more about your agency, conduct an agency assessment, and provide your agency with a customized plan to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, frustrations, challenges, and roadblocks to get your agency to true, ultimate freedom and become its best version possible. It all starts by going to sitkins.com bookacall. I want to get in and, and Tess, this is going to be, I know, a huge part for you, and I want to get your, your thoughts on this. But one thing that we have realized, which this is going to be a shocker for both of you, is that although profits are really important, the, the issue, the challenges are people. And you've already kind of talked about that, by the way. They're also your best solution. They're your best resource, your best advocates. And so, so often it's the agency like, we want profits, we want profits. We want profits. Want profits. Well, great. What are you doing with your people? What does that look like? And again, I give you a lot of kudos. A big part of why I wanted to have you on this podcast is talk about some of the things that you're doing. And again, you can share whatever you, you want on this, but I know you've done some employee engagement work and even through some of the things that we brought to the table. And so, Taz, just overall and again, we can kind of take this where it goes, but what kind of things have you done and what have you learned from employee engagement? Right. How, how tapped in is the team? What are they thinking? What do they want? What's working, what's not? If you could just share a little about your experience with that sector of employee engagement.

Yeah. So we'd recently done an employee engagement survey, and it was really at the beginning of our seconds partnership, and that was Important for us too because we wanted to, we wanted to see where we were starting so that way we could come back and see, okay, where we're at in a year. These actionable items that we've created and these initiatives that we've wanted to continue to drive and support within the agency, are they, are they effective? You don't want to spin your wheels on something that's not effective. And so what we learned with our engagement survey is overall we, we had very strong results right out of the gate. But there was definitely some areas that were like, okay, we, we have room for improvement and a lot of it aligned really well with what we were leveraging. Sikkins tools for clarity, direction, intention and just making sure that we have teams that are operating together well and they know where they're going, they know what they're doing and what they're responsible for. And so starting off with that engagement setting, seeing those results, and then getting our entire leadership team together to talk about those results, but also talk about, okay, what's next? What are we going to do with these results and how are we going to support the progress of the agency?

Yeah, and like what, I mean again, you don't have to get super specific here, but like what things did you learn overall and what are again, without getting, you have to get super specific. But what are some of the ideas of, hey, okay, this is what we learn. Here's some things that really jumped out. Here's some things we're going to look at moving forward.

Yeah, I think probably one of the biggest in, in the industry. It's a tale as old as time. The difference between sales and service. You have very different personality types that do well in those roles. And so if they're not in a line, if they're not pointed in the same direction, it can sometimes cause some friction because different personality types to be very successful. And so I think those results kind of highlighted that too, that with our lack of direction or a lack of clarity and rules, something so fundamental, it's going to cause some friction. There's going to be some areas that people don't really understand of what they're responsible for, what is in my realm of control and what is in my counterparts realm of control. What should we be doing? What should I be doing? What should they be doing? And those results did highlight some of those areas that we were aware of as an agency or you know, outside looking in, you're like, okay, I can see this. But making sure we had that specific feedback from our teams and it wasn't just our perspective of those interactions, but there was some data there. So we knew that we were taking actions to support something that was truly there. So I would say that was one of our bigger areas that it really highlighted for us.

Yeah, it's fantastic. And just imagine, I mean, sales and service, the most part, you've got, you know, people with vast different experiences, different personalities, different communication styles, trying to get somewhere together. Right. There's some nuance to that.

Right.

We got to figure some of that out. So I think that's really, really good feedback. And I do want to say this, and either one of you can respond to this. And I got to be careful how I add it because I also know you're very humble leaders, but I do think it's important. One of the things that we've learned and continue to learn that this probably won't surprise you is that a lot of leaders struggle with getting open feedback like that. Because why? Well, I may not like all the things I have to hear and maybe there's some things that might even make, oh, maybe I need to improve in this area. And so I want to first of all give you super kudos for that. I know even for me, when we get feedback on things like feedback is a gift. I know you work with Carrie on her team and she talks about all the time like, feedback is a gift. And it is. But sometimes, like, it's like you open a test score and you're like peeking in like, okay, what is it going to be? But the part of it is you can take that now and first of all, your team feels heard, they have a voice. And secondly, is that not only is it a herd, but then now there's going to be some form of action. Not that you can do everything that people say that's not realistic, but the reality of it is, hey, we know we're not perfect either. In fact, Brennan, I think you've said maybe four times on this conversation already. We got a long way to go. We're not perfect. Right. But let me ask, and again, I don't know if I have a specific question here other than how do you approach feedback? Like, how do you view it? I mean, do you have concerns with it, fears with it, or is it like, bring it on. What are your thoughts on feedback?

Yeah, from my perspective, encourage as much feedback as possible. I think one area that Tess outlined within the employee engagement survey, we see it just day to day interactions. There is that natural rub with sales and service. The different personalities, the different perspectives on things. And one thing that we're really working hard as an agency on is being very open in our HPT meetings and being very transparent and keeping those lines of communication open to alleviate those frustrations that might pop up. And we've really encouraged our teams and we've been very frank about it, that, hey, we're all adults here, right? And if you're frustrated with somebody on a way that they're handling, maybe you've got, as a service person, maybe you've got an advisor that says, yeah, I'll give that person a call, I'll take care of it. I'll go do that, I'll go do this, you know, and then by the end of the week, you haven't heard anything. And it's frustrating then as a service person, because you're focused, you want to be in the blue zone, you want to be efficient, you want to make sure things are getting done. And all the while, then the advisor might have a lot of other things that they're working on in the green zone that took precedent. And what we've suggested to our teams is when you're frustrated with somebody else on your team, be open about it. Say, hey, where are you at with that? I was expecting you to be done, or I was expecting you to have this information. We're working on this renewal. The carrier is looking for this piece of, you know, this photo or whatever it is. But be very, very transparent and be very open and don't take it as an insult when somebody's providing feedback. If somebody's frustrated with you, you know, you should be working together on finding a solution to get that taken care of. And that goes throughout our agency. We really encourage, whether it's commercial lines or personal ag benefits, crop, whatever it looks like in those HPT meetings, you need to be open and honest because the more you let frustrations just fester, the worse it gets. And so we've, we've spent a lot of time, like I said, with our teams encouraging that open, transparent conversation. And we just got through annual review season a few weeks ago and, you know, we, we had a lot of focus on that, that, hey, if you're frustrated with somebody else on the team, provide open, transparent feedback. And it should go both ways. And I think we're starting to alleviate some of that frustration already. And then, you know, as, as, you know, leaders within the agency, we need to expect that of ourselves too. You know, if you're going to have a conversation with somebody within the agency, why not ask for their Feedback as well. Give them ownership over the direction that we're going. Let them have a say in that process. But all the while, don't be afraid of, if, if somebody's upset with something within the agency, I should, I want to be aware of that. I want to know, okay, is it something that I can fix? Is it something that I can help with? Yeah, sometimes I can, sometimes I can't. But if I'm just going to put my head in the sand and say, I don't want to hear all that, I don't want to hear any of the negative stuff that's going on within the agency. I don't, I don't. You know, I'm, I'm nervous of what, what somebody might say about the direction that we're heading. Obviously, that's not going to go well for anybody. And so I think just being very open and I think as an organization at Bravera, we're that way. We're very transparent with our financial results. We're an employee and director owned company, which is a lot of fun. That model is conducive then to that transparency. We need to make sure our shareholders are aware of our financial results, which are, again, our employees and our directors. So we're very transparent, both the direction that we're heading as an organization and then our results that we've had, you know, so far, either throughout the year or over the last couple years, whatever the time period might be. And so I think our overall, our organization is very supportive of that concept. And then within the agency where we take that very much to heart as well, where we want feedback, we want to make sure that everybody's engaged in the process and rowing in the same direction.

Yeah, really good, Brian. And yeah, there's so many nuggets there. I'm just sitting here like, for all the agency leaders that, again, we all have strengths and weaknesses and good stuff and flaws. But like what you said there, Brennan, a couple things that really jump out. I mean, one is you practice what you preach and, you know, we talk about this like it's one thing and garage. Or use this example in our, in our programs, like, you tell your kid to clean your room and your room is a mess. Like, well, okay. You know, it's kind of like saying, hey, you should all be open and be feedback, but we don't need any. No. And I think that sets the example, the tone of, hey, we are an agency that's open in our feedback and conversation, including us as leaders. And sometimes we don't like it, but it's the only way to grow and improve. And we've all had situations where we have blind spots or areas we don't even know. And you know, obviously use the example so often of, of sales and service and we see that all the time. I think in many cases with the producers, the advisors you work with, I don't think most of them are malicious or mean because they don't share information. They just, just get busy. You get distracted. It's something they, they move on to the next. And I, I think it's safe to say, I don't know if you guys will agree this isn't always the case, but in many cases you'll have service team professionals. They're like, how I don't want to bug Brennan. I, I, you know, I don't want, I know I didn't get what I needed, he said, but I'll just let it go. And what happens is a, we don't communicate well, like we don't get the things we need and B, there's just little levels of resentment that start to build, you know. Yeah, and, and lack of trust. And like I said, I don't think from, in many cases it's not malicious, it's just we get distracted, we get lost and stuff. So really, really good. And one thing I've shared on this podcast, I'm sure you've heard it before, but it's so true what you said, Brennan, is that a problem left unattended will eventually become a crisis, you know, eventually. And so this fact is a little problem. Hey, let's just be open and talk about it. Let's not worry about the, oh, you know, it's okay. Like I want to know. And I think Roger said this in one of our programs. You'll never be mad alone. You know, you, like, I'm mad and no one else even knows, like, but you're mad alone. So a lot of really good stuff there. And it really, I would just summarize this. Accountability is always a two way street. And I love what you all are doing because it's a lot of times we hear the word accountability. Maybe Tess, you're nod and you know, if you could comment on this. When you hear accountability, oftentimes it's like, how do you feel about accountability? And like the person who wants accountability is like, I feel it's great. I think it's important. And the person who needs to be accountable is like, I feel like I'm being micromanaged or I feel like people are always Dumping down my throat. Well, when you realize that, hey, accountability is a two way street. There's certain things that we must, for example, as leaders, be accountable to you. And if we're not, you've got to call us on it, by the way. There's certain things that you've got to be accountable to us to make this work. And that's what a relationship, by the way, is all about. So Tess, I didn't even ask a question, but I just said any comments from my monologue there?

Well, when with accountability. And I was thinking, and then I was like, watch. This probably came from sickens watch. But one of the things that really stuck out to me specifically about accountability that I think of quite often is if someone has to follow up with you 1 out of 10 times, they have to follow up with you every time. And that's just something that really resonated with me too. Because accountability, you know, having that trust. Because that's what it boils down to. Your trusting others to do what they say they're going to do and they're trusting you to do the same. And it's, it's so important and it's, it's not a bad thing. It's not a bad word. And it's, it's, it's vital you have to have it because it really just boils down to trust. And it's difficult to work with anyone if you don't have that trust in your counterpart or the other party. But yeah, if you have to follow up with someone 1 out of 10 times, you have to follow up with them every time.

I don't know that came from us, but I'm sure as heck gonna steal it.

I was like, I heard it somewhere and I was like, gosh, it was probably seconds. I like, I'm trying to think of.

When it's, it's so, I mean, it's funny, I'm sitting there going, that's so good because it's true. It's like, yeah, nine out of ten times it's right. But one out of ten times it's not. So I've always got a follow up because it might be that one out of ten. Yeah, that's really, really powerful test. Thanks so much for sharing that. Really good. My, my ears perked up. I'm like, oh my gosh, what on that? And by the way, just so you all know, if you ever do any type of speaking or training like I do, here's a really simple approach. The first time I would say, hey, test said and then after a few times I said, it's been said. And then after you say it 10 times, you go, I say, right, I heard that years ago. I thought that was kind of funny. All right, I want to get into some challenges. I know you've already brought up a few things, but thinking about brava and where you're going, right, you've made some great progress. You're doing some really good stuff. There's always challenges, always frustrations. I think other agency leaders, we can always learn from what other people are dealing with. I know in this business and talking to agency leaders, I'll often get on the phone on a coaching call or whatever it is, or initial call, and they'll say something like this, hey, br, I know we're probably the only one dealing with this, but what do we do here? And I'm like, I just had that conversation yesterday. So it typically isn't. But if you had to highlight one of your biggest challenges of frustration as you all move forward as an organization, what would you say it would be and what are you doing to address it?

Yeah, to start, I think the sales culture piece is a challenge, and I think it can be for a lot of agencies when you're looking at how do you grow and Bravera over the last few decades, frankly, we've grown through acquisition, and we've been lucky and blessed, frankly, with, you know, the North Dakota economic situation where we've got a robust oil and gas industry, robust agricultural industry that spurs kind of a lot of different side things that happen throughout the state. And. And we've. We've been positioned as an agency to take advantage of some of those opportunities. But other than. Than that, we've grown through acquisition. And so we've found ourselves as an agency with a stagnant or even, I think, maybe even with no sales culture. And so hitting the reboot button and saying, no, we want to be that agency that's known for organic growth, that we drive our own results. And I mentioned in my intro I was lucky enough to join Federated Insurance right out of college. They're known for a very fantastic sales development program. And so I've been able to take some of the tools that I learned early on in my career and really compound that with some of the Sikkins concepts and overhaul our sales training and our sales approach as an agency. And we're very, you know, very much in the early stages of this process, but really encouraging our advisors to be proactive in looking for deals and building relationships. And that's where it starts. And one of the, probably the area that's most challenging for an advisor is getting going. I liken it to, you're starting off with a square wheel, and it's gonna be extremely clunky. Early on, it's just clunk, clunk. And then over time, maybe those edges break off and then it rounds out and then you're running. Right. But that early stage, you're just, it's extraordinarily clunky. You feel like you're pounding your head against the wall. And so we talk a lot with our advisors around your perspective throughout the sales process. And if you're thinking that you're gonna go in and make a cold call on a business, because North Dakota, it's very much a relationship sales process, you're going to go out and likely need to develop business in person, you're going to have to develop that relationship first before you ask for that sale. And so it's all about perspective. So if you're going to go out and make a cold call on a business, you're not going to win the deal that day, right? But if you're, if you're thinking that it's, it's a failure if you don't get, say, a copy of their policy or you don't get a buying order, you don't get a, an AOR on that first visit, you're going to walk out of every call that you make thinking you're a failure as a salesperson. But if you go in there thinking, okay, I want one particular goal in mind. I want to make sure I know who to talk to first off in that first call, maybe find out what their X date is. And if you find out those two pieces of information on your, on your first visit, that's a win, and that should be a win for everybody. And so if you have that perspective when you're approaching sales, every call that you're making, you're having wins along the way, and you're building relationships along the way, and so you're shifting your perspective. And then it becomes easier as an advisor to get that wheel moving quicker, breaking off those edges quicker, and all of a sudden your pipeline's filling up. All of a sudden you're winning opportunities to provide a second opinion on business. And then over time, you're going to win business and you're going to see those results. And it's been exciting. As an agency, we certainly still have a lot of challenges and we're shifting that culture and we're very much in the early stages. But we've seen some of our advisors get those early wins, and you can just see them light up that, hey, this process does work. It's about building relationships. It's about having the right perspective. And so it's. It's a challenge we're working through. But. But we've been able to see some of those wins and see some of that light at the end of the tunnel, too.

Yeah, I love that. I just. Quick comment on this. I mean, I think what you said, perspective. My brain always takes me to thinking about context. And you're right, there is a challenge of this. And again, depending on where people are coming from, as a new producer, new advisor, there is this idea, like, if I don't get external wins, I'm a failure. But then part of it, like, what does that mean? What is. Well, if I didn't write, I was like, well, first of all, there's longer sales cycle. Second of all, you're coming in cold. Third, and it's like, you're new, you're learning stuff. Like, but what are the internal wins? Right? I did this, I did this, I did this. Great. You know, it's often, again, I'll use one more sports analogy, but, like, you'll hear a coach, it's like, I know they're doing the right stuff in practice. We got our brains bit out on the court, but, like, I see improvement. Like, there is absolute improvement. And when you can begin to find some of that, not only do you as a leader know, hey, I know they're on the right path, but they internally are like, hey, I am doing some good stuff here, versus every night going home and going, well, I'm a failure again. You know? And you wonder why there's such turnover in the industry. Well, it is a hard industry, but we got to be able to contextually say, what does that win actually look like based on where you're at? And the key thing to me is just move forward. Feel like I'm like Dory from Nemo, just keep swimming. But like, there, there, there's some truth to that. So thank you, Brendan, for sharing that. Super powerful. Tess, what about you? What challenges do you see and. And what are you doing to address them?

I think probably, which, I mean, said everyone in the industry ever, probably one of our big challenges is just change. It's managing and working through change. And that's with our Sickens partnership. That's what was so important to us is, you know, as an agency, as we focus on a new direction and we take steps with intention. We don't want to just have our teams go to Sickens, go through the sessions and then leave and then that's, that's all she wrote. It was really important for us to sit down and map out what can we do as an agency to support this? What do we need to do as an agency to support this? What steps can we take, what actionable items, how do we really facilitate change within the agency as we align on our direction and we continue moving forward and we take the Sickins tools and the Sickens concepts and we find the practical approach for how it works for our agency. And when do we layer things? How do we, how do we layer things? It was, it was very important that we, we had a plan to support this as an agency for our teams. And so I think that's probably been a challenge but also an opportunity is how can we support the direction on you know, a leadership level, a process level, an operational level, you know, what do we need to do for our teams so that they can become the best version possible? You know, and so that's been, it's been fun. It's challenging, but it's, it's such a great opportunity too.

Yeah, I, I just comment on that. I mean it does so much start with, with mindset and you're right task, like change is hard. Like, you know, I mean like I always phrase this and in fact the quote I, I steal is that you know, people don't resist change, people resist being changed. That's one thing to say, hey, we're going to change. Okay, well now we're going to be doing things differently. Right now our expectations are this, ooh, that's different, that's uncomfortable. I don't like that. That's new, that kind of call, you know, all these things that we think through and you know, the caveat to this and again kudos to you as a leadership team and you know, this is no shock. Our best successful long term partnership of members have leaders that are on the ride with their team. You know, yes, there's different roles within it but it's not like, hey, you two need to be fixed, go get trained. Good luck. You know, we believe in you. Just good luck and you know, versus, hey, listen, there's going to be some challenges here. We're in it with you. There's going to be some hard days and hard weeks. But going back, Brandon, what you said at the beginning, like, I also feel very clear and confident of where we're going and it's Worthwhile. And you know, to me, again, that sets a standard for you as an agency and you as leaders and with your team. So again, I just give you kudos to that because I do see you on the programs and leaning in and having those conversations. And the thing we talk about all the time and it's relevant here is I always say there's three Cs, right? Clarity. And Brendan, you talked about that, like, clarity. Where are we going? Where are we today? Where are we going? How are we going to get there? And then the second part is consistency, which is the part where most people quit, like, doing it again. Okay, a little better, A little better. And the last part you're putting together is the commitment, right, that this is not like a one month thing. Like, we're, we're going to continue to march forward. We're committed to this with you. So, again, huge kudos to both of you is leading the team through that. And I'm hoping that, you know, listeners can, you know, I'm hearing things like, wow, that's a great reminder. That's a great thing that you guys are doing. Knowing there's challenges within it. It's not easy. The easy thing is be like, yeah, we're just not going to do any of it and you'll be okay, but that's not who you are and where you're going. So. All right, my last question, and I appreciate all the conversations, I'm going to respect your time. Hard to believe we're already at like 45 minutes. We're rolling along here. I love having these conversations, by the way. Selfishly, they're fun. Hopefully you enjoyed it too. But my question is more of a personal question for you. And we were joking before we started the session officially recording that you're both young leaders, so you all don't have to go that far back. Okay, but maybe go back 10 years. And here's the scenario. I mean, Tash, you started 10 years ago, right? Basically in the business. But let's go back 10 years and 10 years ago, you come face to face with that person who's just getting started or younger in the journey and that 10 year younger version of you, says Brennan. Tess, if there's one piece of advice that you could give me to make the next 10 years go better, be easier, go faster, I don't know. However you want to define it, what would it be? That's my final question to both of you.

Yeah, I'll start. And I think I'd say go buy Bitcoin, but No, I think, you know, from a career perspective, I look at, I look at that question more as, you know, what kind of advice would I give to maybe a college kid coming out and looking at the insurance industry as a career? And the number one piece of advice that I'd give that individual. Regardless of the role, the insurance industry in general, there's so many cool opportunities and so many different facets of the industry. Regardless of the role, you need to stick with it. So many times you see within the industry, somebody get. Because it can be a frustrating industry that's intellectually challenging. It's, it's challenging from, you know, if it's, you know, and you're in sales, it's challenging. From that angle, there's a lot of challenges. But if you stick with it, it can be an incredibly rewarding career. And so I would just challenge whether it would, you know, advice to my, you know, younger self or somebody joining the industry. Stick with it. Find your niche, Learn as much as you possibly can about, about the industry, but if you stick with it and remain consistent, you're gonna, you're gonna have an incredibly rewarding career.

Great stuff, Brandon, thanks for sharing that. Tess, how about you?

I would probably say good things rarely come easy and great things never do. Just stay uncomfortable.

Yeah, that's good. I'm taking a lot of notes here today. You guys, you guys are wrong. This is good. Yeah, I, I mean, again, I don't have. These are your piece of advice. I love them. Brennan, I took my own version of yours because I've got, I've got teenage daughters and younger kids as well. And I was like, do you want to be Tick Tock or a long form podcast? Which one do you want to be here? Right? And hey, whatever you can have fun with Tick Tocks, they don't stick very long. And I do think. Brennan, just a comment. I love your piece of advice. Like, and I know every generation I always want to be careful because, right. You go through and everything. Oh, didn't do what I did and all that kind of stuff. But the truth of it is we are like, where everything is so fast and so expected and like, I need it now and why don't I have it? And this should happen 30 seconds later. There is a challenge in leadership of that, of getting people to stick to it, to see what's possible. Like, there's depth and there's meaning when you can stick to it. So, Vernon, I love that. And then of course, Tess, you know how much I love what you said because we always talk about the only thing that grows in your comfort zone to me is complacency. I mean comfort's really nice. You just nothing grows there. So this idea of just staying uncomfortable, which to me is the most fun learning journey you possibly can have because you continue to evolve and grow and learn new things. So listen, I thank you both so much for coming on here. I got a ton of great notes. I know that the listeners, the leaders are going to get great value. Any final words you'd like to say, any plugs, anything you want to share, any brags on the agency, whatever it is, any wrap up thoughts as we conclude this, this interview today.

From my perspective, it's just a big thank you not only for the opportunity to be on the podcast today, but all the work that, you know, the Sitkins team with Roger, Brent and Carrie, what you guys do for our agency. It's, you know, something that when we were looking at a way to really jumpstart our agency and create the change that we wanted to, the positive change that frankly we needed, we looked at Sickens as that opportunity. I was visiting with our, the CEO of our holding company when we first engaged with, with you guys and I was describing the programming, describing some of the processes that we were, we were going through and he said, well it sounds like you just hired a chief change officer. I said, you know what, you're right, we did. And so we just really appreciate your guys partnership. It's been incredibly instrumental in some of the, the positive things that we've been able to do within the agency and we look forward to continuing to grow together and continuing to build our relationship because we know that long term that's going to prove to be extremely beneficial for us as well.

Yeah, thank you Brandon, I appreciate it. And we look forward to continue to grow as your role of the cco. Is that right?

There you go.

Yeah, I might steal that too. I love it. Hey Tess, how about you? Final words for you?

Well, just really resonating with what Brennan said and it's, you know, we've got a lot to do as an agency. There's a lot we want to do and having Sickens, like leveraging that resource, having that partner really through it, someone that we can bounce ideas off of, that we have, our teams have, I think is so important and so just, you know, communication, you're not alone, you've got a team of people and so it's great that we have Sickens on our team of people and I'm really excited to see what happens. I'm excited to see what we're doing in a year and then beyond.

Yeah, that's the exciting thing too, of any growth is the fact that, yeah, you, you got ideas and then you get somewhere and you're like, wait, there's more. And then you get to that, you're like, wait, there's even more. And I, I will say this, and again, thank you so much for the, the kind words. We love the partnership and just how you all lean in and embrace this stuff. I mean, that's what makes it not just successful, makes it fun, but this idea of, yes, there's coaching and mentorship, but you know, has continued to grow and expand yourself, not just with coaches, but other agencies that think like you do. Right. That approach, things like you do, continue to expand that. So thank you so much both for being on the podcast. We appreciate it. Gosh darn it, you keep growing. I'll just have you back on again at some point. How's that sound? So thank you so much. We appreciate you. And as an, as a listener, if this podcast has resonated with you or past podcast, of course, do the whole like follow share thing, give it review. We're looking to grow the audience and add more impact to agency leaders. Thanks so much for listening. The Agent Leader podcast is brought to you by the fine folks, the Rough Notes company. They are publishers of the insurance industry's leading magazine and technical insurance content. RoughNotes magazine profile successful agencies plus keen insights from respected experts on a host of must know topics. RoughNotes Advantage plus provides the tools to help your agency grow, providing authoritative information on complex coverage issues. Visit them and learn more@roughnotes.com Wait, you're still here? Hey, Agent Leader podcast listeners. Brent Kelly again I want to first of all thank you for listening to the Agent Leader podcast and your continued support. If you would like to have more content come your way, please help us by sharing the podcast, subscribing to the podcast, telling people about the podcast and if you as an agent leader are truly ready to take that next step in your agency, you're committed and want to be that best version possible agency. Don't wait. Go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we want to provide the blueprint for your agency to help you create more impact with less effort. And it all starts by going to sitkins.com bookacall all right, now you can actually go. Thanks.