Click #1 for Insurance Professionals - Small Thinking

Foreign welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. So glad that you're with me. And I've got a very, very special guest that I'm going to be introducing just in a minute or so. But before I give this guest the credit that it's deserved, I want to make sure that I always get the purpose. The mission of the Agent Leader Podcast is to help you, the agency leader, whether you're the agency principal, whether you're the sales leader, a producer, insurance professional in your office to help you gain clarity, build consistency, and to make a commitment to become your best version possible. And you know, we're getting some really great feedback on our book, Best Version Possible, hint hint. Hope you love that title, Best version Possible and you can find it@sitkins.com bvp so make sure you get a copy. Hey, get two or three copies and share them with your friends. But great feedback on our book Best version possible. Again, sitkins.combvp to get your copy. Now, I want to get into our conversation today, and to do that, I want to make sure that I introduce my guest properly. And this guest is someone that I've known for quite a while now, someone I work very closely with, someone who has served the independent insurance agency for 40 years. So he may know a thing or two about results and processes and strategies for independent insurance agencies. And I don't know how many professionals you've worked with. I mean, I would guess well over thousands of producers and hundreds of agencies. But if you don't know yet, my special guest is Roger Sitkins, CEO of the Sitkins Group. Roger, welcome back. It's been a little while to the Agent Leader Podcast.

It has been a while. I appreciate the opportunity to be here again and I'm really excited about today's topic. It's going to open some eyes, to say the least.

Yeah, so this came about. We were, Roger and I were talking, obviously we run a number of sessions and events for the Sitkins Group, and we were just talking about some different areas and we began to talk about clicks. In fact, I'm going to have Roger share a story of a really powerful click here in a minute. But these clicks. And what do I mean by clicks? Well, there could be different names, they could be breakthroughs. Maybe you're busting through a trap or a plateau. It's a mindset shift, right? In many cases where you begin to see things and do things at a different level to get you some of the results that maybe you didn't even think were possible prior to that click. So we're going to be doing a series and I, we talked about, well, let's, let's do a podcast and talk about these clicks. And we realized we may be on here for three to four hours. So we thought maybe that's not a good idea. Let's break up these clicks and we're going to be going through eight clicks, so through the summer as we're recording this. And whether you're listening to this during the summer or maybe it's later in the year, which is fine, they're going to be very impactful for you and your agency to find out maybe where there's a plateau or a trap or a rut that your agency's fallen into. And we're going to share some of the clicks to help you get out or break past that plateau. So the first click we're going to be talking about is the click that it truly is a mindset shift. It's moving from small thinking or limited thinking to true abundance thinking or higher level thinking. You know, it all starts with our, with our mind. And you know, Roger, you've got a fantastic story. You share this on our producer camp I always love. In fact, in our very first session, we talk about mindset clicks and you've got a great story with someone you've worked with for quite a while. So I want you to share with the audience that story about the click.

This is a producer who became a great friend of mine. In fact, he wound up going on six or seven mission trips with me to Nicaragua. And he's a large guy. He's about 6, 7 and about 275, 280. And so he actually got a nickname. When we went to Nicaragua the first time, we walked into the, got off the bus and walked into the village where we're going to be building a home. And most of our Nicaraguan friends are smaller people. And they looked up, they saw him and one turned to the other, went Grande Gringo. So we wound up calling him Grande Gringo. And that's his nickname still today. But when he was going through our producer program originally, and this is boy, probably 12, 15 years ago, he was, you could just tell there was something about him. Not only just his size, just a really nice guy, very committed man. And we became friends. And this is before Nicaragua. This was, I think, the third session he was coming to. And he called me ahead of time. He said, hey, coach, you know, I'd really Like to do some Back Bay fishing with you. He lives on the west coast and he came to southwest Florida and west coast of the country, California. And he came to southwest Florida and we booked a fishing guide and we went out back bays and we were just slamming them. We were just catching snook. It was just wonderful. But then the afternoon rains hit it a little bit earlier. I think it was about 1:00, and we got chased off the water. We had a guide and we said, well, let's just go get lunch together. So we went to a restaurant down on Fort Myers beach and had a few cold beers and some chicken wings and we were talking. But I looked at him and I said, how big of a book do you think you can have? What could you become? And he said, oh, boy, Roger. He said, I'm at about 650,000 now, and I don't know that I'm going to get much bigger. I think I want to write larger accounts but have fewer of them. But I don't really see myself ever getting maybe 7, 750. And I looked at him and Brent, you've heard the story 100 times probably now. But I looked at him, I said, you know what? I disagree. What? I said, I disagree. I said, I see in you a million dollar plus. In fact, a multiple of million dollar plus producer. And it was the first time ever I had experience where I saw someone literally like click. You could almost hear their brain going, click, click. And his eyes got real big and he went, you're right, I never saw that before, never thought of it before. So just in that discussion right there, you could hear the click. And then I said, okay, what does it look like? What does it look like when you're at a million? What does it look like when you're at 2 million, whatever it may be. And he started designing it right away. And it was just interesting, Brent, because when the click happened, it was like the barriers opened up. He started thinking bigger. Today he's over 6 million of commission income on his personal book of business.

What was that number again?

6 million of commission income on his own book, but not premium commission income. In fact, two years ago on his birthday, I called him wish him a happy birthday and we missed each other. He called me back about an hour later and he said, coach, I got to tell you, got a great birthday present today. I said, what's that? He said, I wrote the largest account I've ever written. I said, how big? He said, one million on one account. Now, will everybody do that? No. Does everybody want to be that big and make that big of a commitment? No. But it was amazing how once that click happened, the barriers, the self limiting beliefs went away. And so it has become a great story. And now what happens during our programs, as you know, is we talk about this, okay, what's your click? What opened up in your mind? What self limiting belief did you eliminate and say, oh, oh, there's a best version possible of me as we now talk about sitting out there waiting for me to arrive. So it was a great experience and it's a lesson that's been shared now with thousands of people.

It's a great story. And you know, to your point, Raj, I mean, whether someone's like, you get people go 6 million? Like that's crazy. No way. Look at, Maybe it isn't 6 million for you, but it's amazing too. And not amazing anymore because I see it all the time, is that, you know, whatever that click that breakthrough is, and it could be a producer who's at 100, 150,000, who thinks, yeah, I'll probably be a three or $400,000 producer someday. Like, no, like there's so much more within you. And these are those, those breakthroughs. And Rod, you said it so well. It's a self limiting beliefs. You know, we talk, you know, the best version possible story, and some of you may have heard this before, was simply asking a question to Roger about, you know, what's the best version possible of insurance agencies? And Roger rattled off a whole bunch of great stuff, in fact, things we'll probably talk about in the coming weeks in these sessions. But then it teed up something bigger and deeper which was, what's the best version possible of me? And you know, that, that question and Roger, you addressing it, and we talk about that, you know, in our camps with our professionals that we work with, hey, what's that best version of you and what does it really look like? And let go of those things that are holding you back from it. You know, some people, oh, that seems a bit like, oh, wow, woo, woo. But the truth of it is is there are self limiting beliefs, there are barriers, there are blockades, there are things that are from no one else but yourself that are holding people back. And I think it's a big part. What I want to talk today about are some of those areas that you see in agencies where maybe there's some small minded or limited thinking and how we get some breakthroughs. But I do want to share if I could, Roger, I guess I can't I'm hosting the podcast so I can do what I want, right? But you know, we all have them. And I had one of those moments. It's been a couple months ago, I guess a few months back we were doing our Sales mastery program and one of our attendees, and by the way, he's been interviewed on this podcast before, one of our great members, we were having lunch together and we were just talking about different things and he was asking about, you know, where I live and how long I get down to Florida and all that stuff. And he says, oh, do you ever think about living down here? And I said, oh sure, all the time. You see the boats and the water and all that stuff. And I said, you know what's interesting though is that sometimes you'll come down, you fly in and when you go on vacation or you're in nice resorts, you always see the best of stuff and you see all kind of this, kind of this and that. And he's like, well, what are you saying? I'm like, well I'm just saying like you just, you see the best. It's not always reality. And he just stopped and looked me dead in the eye. It just goes, well, why not you? Someone has that house, someone has that yacht. And he's like, it doesn't mean that you want that house or the yacht. But the point of it is, is that why are you limiting your thinking? And I was like, you're right, you're right. So we all have it if we're not very careful. And I think a big part that I want to get to today is how do we begin to break through? So I want to start off, Roger, just very generalized question, but things that you've seen in all your experiences, why do you think that insurance agencies, insurance professionals, producers, I mean you mentioned Grande Gringo. Why do you think that they think too small? How does that happen?

Well, part of it's what you just said. They, they see things, they go, well that's not me. And you know something I would hope everybody write down if they're not driving someplace right now is why not me, why not me, why not my agency? Because if someone's done it, it's possible, it's not impossible, it's possible. And so rather than saying, well that's probably not going to be me and it's probably not going to be there, and I've had, I've had tons of self limiting beliefs from my life. I think every human being does. But at some point when you finally say you Know what? Why not me? What do I have to do to get there? First of all, do you really want it? Does it meet your values? Does it meet what you want for your family, your community, your church, whatever it may be? But then once you have have the pigheaded discipline to do the stuff that you know you need to do. And so it starts with what do you really want? And Simon Sinek's start with why?

Right, yeah, it's, it's powerful. And I wrote something down. One thing that Roger, you say on many of the sessions we run with our agency partners is basically paraphrasing what you said is what's possible, you know, what's really possible. And I don't know that agencies and professionals often think about that that much. They really don't because you get caught up in the day to day stuff. And one thing that I think you as a great coach, Roger, and something certain that I try to do with our members and our professionals is to help them see more and see before things they may not see on their own. Help them envision a bigger, brighter future. And once they see it and go, you know what, then all of a sudden it's like, maybe I can do this. And that's that first, you know, that first little click on that. So, and I don't want to, we're going to move to more the positive side of this, but I think it's important to just to ask this question to you. What do you see has been the impact of agencies or professionals that think small?

It's pretty simple. They wind up at the end of their career with a ton of regrets. And every one of us are eventually going to leave our business. When we do, whether we're an agency owner, a partner, a big producer, whatever it may be, every one of us eventually leaves our business. And when you do, do you want to have regrets or regrets as we've talked about before, let's have the great results, let's do the great things so that at the end of our career we can say, that was really cool. Look what I did, look what I did. And yet I haven't seen an official study on this. But I do know that the vast majority of Americans are not financially secure at the end of their careers. I think it's less than 10% are. And then you look at it and say, well, what happens? Well, then they're going, I wish I would have, I wish I could have. If I'd only done this. And so it starts with a mindset, a click. If you will look, you want regrets or regrets? Because if you're going to put the time in anyway, something we talk about all the time, if you're going to put the time in anyway, why not be great at it? Why not be great if you're gonna spend another 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years doing this? Be great at it and get great results and look towards that. All right, what's the best version possible of me? What do I have to do to get there?

Yeah, it's just. It's kind of idea, too. And I know, you know, this is a bit cliche, but it's true. It's like, are you just going to go through life or are you going to grow through it? And I. It's just like, ah, just. Just pass through it. And then when I get to the end, maybe there'll be some cool things. Maybe. And. Or maybe I'll die. I don't know.

They will die.

Well, we know that, that's for sure. And I've shared this story. I shared actually yesterday on one of our final sessions of a group that we were working with. But as you said, it just feels like the right time to share it again on this podcast. But it's been a while and it leads exactly to what you said. And I had a mentor years ago that asked me about the definition of hell on earth. I know you've heard this before, but it just goes back to regrets. Um, and I said, no, what's the definition of hell on earth? And he said, well, Brent, the definition of hell on earth is that when you get to the last day of your life on this earth, you come face to face with the person that you could have become, if only. And, man, that just. Even I say it now, it shakes me to the core because, you know, none of us are going to have perfect lives, right? That's not what we're saying. But this idea of getting at some point to the end, and by the way, we don't know when that's going to be, so you might as well maximize every day. And all of a sudden the idea of meeting that other version of me, not the best version of me, the average version of me, and going, hey, you did pretty average. That was good, by the way. This is what could have become of you, if only. Anyway, just, you know, hopefully the listeners out there are going, yeah, like, you know, what am I going to be doing to maximize today? Because it truly is. I mean, it's. Your opportunity is right now, so take advantage of it. The agent leader Podcast is brought to you by the fine folks of the Rough Notes company. They're publishers of the insurance industry's leading magazine and technical insurance content. Roughness Magazine profile successful agencies plus keen insights from respected experts on a host of must know topics. RoughNotes Advantage plus provides the tools to help your agency grow, providing authoritative information on complex coverage issues. Visit them and learn more@roughnotes.com all right, I know you mentioned Grande Gringo as a, as a breakthrough Mark Shipp, which I love that story, but where have you seen agencies and it could be another professional producer. Where have you seen them have a breakthrough as an agency in their thinking or certainly their actions as well?

Roger, it's, boy, there's so many of them. With all the new things we're doing, it's getting even more exciting. I think some of them finally realize that as an agency overall and as an individual producer, that the size of the agency, the size of the individual books of business, the size of the personal income will always be driven by your average revenue per client. So how do you upscale? How do you raise the bar, whatever term you want to use. But how do you earn larger accounts? Well, it's not doing what you've always done. So it's a matter of number one, don't fall into that trap of what we call the 22 syndrome. Too many accounts, paying too little money each. So when they start that and they say, okay, we've got to upscale, we've got to raise that revenue per relationship, how do we do that? Well, they already have some large accounts. And when we use the power of the 80:20 rule, the law of the vital few, Prato's Principle has several titles. You realize that you do have right now in the vast majority of agencies and producers books, you've got the top 5% that are 50% of your revenue. And we look at it, we say, well, how did you get those? Well, you know, you get lucky, which you don't get lucky on those accounts. You've earned them. And a big breakthrough happens when they say, well, wait a minute, if I can write A accounts and some B accounts, why don't I replicate those? We always say, you're going to replicate something. What do you want to replicate? So we go back and say, well, how did you get that? Because all too often what happens when an agency or producer write a large account, they go, well, we got lucky, we got lucky, as I said earlier. And the reality is you make your own luck, as I've heard you say before on the podcast. And so when you get a big account, first of all, do a debrief. Why did you get it? How did you get it? And when the producer goes, well, I got lucky, I got a referral, I'm thinking, so why don't you replicate that? And we always say, look, when you write an easy account, quote, unquote, easy account, figure out how you did it and do it five more times and just that click, when people go, oh, well, that makes sense. How did I get it? How do I replicate it? How do I get it? How do I replicate it? So that's a huge starting point. The other one, and this is, you hear me laugh about this a lot and comment about it. Of everything I've done in over 40 years now, okay, of working with agencies and looking to help people, help individuals. And now with our whole theme of what is the best version possible, how do we get there? I guess I'm going to be known for one thing. It's going to be the green zone. Difference between the red zone and the green zone. And people finally go, oh, green zone, yeah. What's the green zone? Well, it's when you're doing the four key money making activities, green is green. And so it's sales, it's continuations, it's relationship management, it's pipeline building. That's where you spend 80% of your time. And even on our session that we just finished yesterday, the eighth session of the producer program, people are going, well, what did you get out of? Oh, this green zone, the green zone. And they talk about it when we do our roundtable breakouts. Oh, we've got to spend more time in the green zone. And that's just, it's something where they realize that the red zone is a service trap and you're not good at it as a salesperson. So how do we get in the green zone? And all of a sudden thinking, huh? And we use this term all the time definition of a producer, one who actually produces. So spend your time producing. So those are some of the things that are just really, really jumped out. But maybe the biggest breakthrough I think, of everything else we've done, oh, it's the green zone. Well, if that's a great mindset and I think I'm going to think bigger, how do I spend 80% of my time in the green zone? How does my agency overall grow? And we did a podcast on this, the world's greatest producer recruiting program. Get your current producers producing, get them in the green zone. 80% of the time the agencies that are doing this are seeing a quick bump of at least 25% increased production from the producers. It's amazing.

Yeah, well. And, you know, say, success leaves clues, as you mentioned. And part of these, a few of those things that you mentioned, Roger, I know, are part of the future series. Some, some podcasts we're going to do at a deeper level on, you know, what are the actual Green Zone breakthroughs and what are the breakthroughs of the vital few. But just overall, I love the way you expressed it. I mean, it's. And, you know, I've told you, Roger, we'll just use the vital few in the 80, 20 that, you know, there are agencies that you'd worked for, for, with for years, and I'll hop on a call or a coaching call or a training session or whatever, and they're still going, oh, yeah, that 80, 20, you know, and it's just the idea of, hey, listen, like, you've got to maximize things. One thing that I do want to share, I made some notes as you were talking there. I wrote this down. This goes back to, you know, this certainly is true for producers, but agencies overall, I always ask producers, hey, are you planning on getting better in the next five or 10 years? And of course they're going to say yes. And I said, well, shouldn't your clients get better? And as simple as that is, it's amazing. They go, oh, I have been working with the same type of client for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I've never really expanded that revenue per relationship, or I've never seen myself working on larger accounts, whether it's personal benefits or commercial lines. So I think that's really important. The other thing I wrote down, Roger, as you were saying, we say, you know, success leaves clues like, did you get lucky or did you do something smart that maybe you should do it again? And then the flip of it I wrote, I just wrote down in my own words is stop repeating stupid stuff. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, it hasn't been working, but we're going to give it another shot. Okay, good luck with that. So, again, I appreciate you sharing that. One more question on this topic that I want to ask you, Roger, and you've already addressed a few of these, so I don't know if you've got something different or you want to expand on something, but what would you say? I want to give, you know, give the listeners a takeaway here. What would be one way again or more if you've got that. But try to quantify one way that agency Leaders, insurance professionals, producers can start thinking bigger.

If there were one thing, of all the things we talk about, and it's something that I shared with you yesterday, that I had an additional breakthrough on, but the ultimate marketing strategy of round out, retain and replicate your A and B accounts. All right, and if they would say, and we've talked to us for the one agency that we worked together on about three and a half years ago, where they went from a 3% to a 9% growth rate in six months because they executed this one thing, and that's the big deal on this too, is stop trying to do a million things, reduce the number of things you're working on, but actually do them. Don't talk about, we can do this, this, this, and this, because you won't and your brain won't allow it. Plus, you know, if it weren't for all these clients calling you, you could stop and implement everything but the ultimate marketing strategy, round out, retain and replicate the A's and B's. Well, we know that. And this is, I think, everything we talk about. This is the toughest one. It's, it's simple, as we always try. It's a simple approach. It's just not easy. And that's so much of what we do. It's simple. We, we're going to simplify things down to the proven processes that we know that work. They're just not easy to do because they take the discipline to actually do what you said you're going to do. But in the ultimate marketing strategy roundup, retain and replicate the A's and B's. I don't know if I've only said that 17 times today.

That's all right.

But you're going to replicate something. As I mentioned earlier, why don't you replicate your A's and B's? But it also hit me that every producer's A's and B's are different. So if I've got our grande gringo at over 6 million in commission income, his, his A's and B's are way bigger than someone else. And we have some, some great younger producers that have 4 or 500,000 revenue we work with, well, start replicating your A's and B's. And as simple as that sounds, people can't do it because they won't have the discipline. So I look at it and say, all right, so I'm an individual producer. The top 20% of my customers are 80% of my revenue. Rather than thinking, I've got to be all things to all people, why don't I limit myself to. I'm going to replicate my A's and B's, and that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to raise the bar on my minimum account size, my targeted account size. And like you said earlier about earning bigger accounts, well, you earn bigger accounts when you get better, too. It's not only that your accounts get better, you get better. And something we shared with the group yesterday, again, was that why don't you out learn your competition to out earn your competition, and so you're only worth more when you're worth more. That, to me would be the biggest thing, is pick a singular strategy that you're going to follow to get, as we refer to them, the simplified, proven processes that we know work and do them, don't partially do them, commit to them. What's the best version possible of the ultimate marketing strategy? Now go do it.

Yeah, well, and you say this all the time, Roger. If you, hey, if you want to raise, great, just go take one. And you know, it's like, oh, well, what does that mean? It means go get better at your craft and, and, and own it. Right. And you know, it's not, it's not something that's going to magically happen. But the few things that, as you said that I was making notes, there's a lot of different caveats to this, obviously depending on whether it's a producer, agency, leader, whatever. But I always thought, you know, what often separates some of the highest performers that we see, whether it's a producer, again, an agency, holistically. And I'm always like, do they always have more tools? Not necessarily. Do they have more resources? Not necessarily. Do they have a bigger team? Not necessarily. I mean, these could be parts of it. Certainly it doesn't hurt you, but I mean, I know this is going to sound a bit cliche, but the biggest thing is they made a decision, they believed that it was possible. And I know, Roger, you probably want to jump on that because you love that idea of decision, but it's just producer camp is the best example because I will be talking to two producers and maybe they have very similar, you know, structures. Right. I mean, you can find that are different but similar. Go, why is one at a million and one 100,000? It could be. Well, one's been in business longer. Okay, yeah, but I'm saying take all that out. No, it's because one person decided this is what I'm going to do. So you're nodding your head. So I'm gonna let you. I'll let you wrap up with that thought.

Well, absolutely. Thank you. It does come down to a decision. So many times we don't make a decision, which means we're accepting. This is where we are, we're done. And that drives me crazy when I see producers do that, or agency principals go, well, you know, we're doing pretty good. And as we said a thousand times that it's a great business. It's truly a great business. A business where you can become semi successful. Back to the outside world again. We've talked about this so much. It looks like you're doing great. Okay? But agency owners are leaving millions and millions and millions of dollars of value on the table because Right now every $100,000 increase in profit is worth $1,200,000 to, in some cases, $1.6 million of increased value. I mean, that sounds like a good investment to me. That sounds like a good investment. So what happens to so many, though, is that they, they get to the point of being semi successful. They've got everything they've ever wanted. Everybody in their community thinks they're doing great, they're helping their church, they're helping their community, they're helping their family, whatever. But deep down inside, they know there's a better version of them. And this is maybe one of the biggest clicks ever. It's when they decide, when they say, okay, I got. I decide. And the core of the word decide is to cut off from everything else. So once you decide, okay, there's a. There's a best version possible of me out there. Okay. And once you decide that your agency could be so much better, so much more profitable, and you could increase your own wealth by multi. Millions of dollars a year, why wouldn't you do it? Why wouldn't you do it? Well, you don't want it or you don't believe it? Well, number one, believe it, because it's very possible. We see it every day now. You just have to decide that you're going to commit to become the best version possible and then go do what you said you're going to do.

Yeah, it's. I mean. Well, that sounds simple, Roger. Well, I mean, part of it, it is simple. But you would say it's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. But the truth is they don't. But those that do it, go, you know what? I made a great investment in myself, my team, for my clients, my community. I made a decision and I'm grateful that I did right going back to that definition so. Well, Roger, thank you for being part of this podcast. We have seven more clicks that we're going to go through, and some of those that Roger mentioned, we'll go a little bit deeper in. But I know you as the agency leader. I mean, we designed these intentionally on purpose. We want to help you see things differently so you can go do things differently. Right. At a higher level. And one of the things, Rod, you've heard me say this before when I first say I'm working with agency leaders in a room or at a virtual session is, hey, anybody here need more things to do? You're like, hey, I'm looking for more things to do. Well, you know, we all laugh about it. No. Find the simple things to do that you're going to go deep and execute upon. And as you're going to hear more from us at Sitkins, we are refining our model in a proven process that makes this simple for you as possible to execute that best version possible. And you're going to be hearing more about it. But if you want to reach out to us, we'd love to have a conversation with you and your agency about your best version possible and the best version possible process that we're going to help you avoid some of the complexity and the challenges that you're facing to find the things that truly work to go deep and go win out in the marketplace. Also, as a reminder, the best version possible book that if you're watching the video, is behind Roger that we're very proud of. And again, we're getting great feedback on. We'd love to get this in your hands. Go to sitkins.com bvp so sitkins.com bvp to get your copy today. So, Roger, thank you. Thank you to the audience for listening. I wish you all the best in your success.