Design or Default?

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast, helping provide you and your agency greater clarity, consistency, and a commitment to become your best version possible. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on today's episode. And I have a special guest who also is a regular guest, so I think you'd be a special regular guest. Roger Sitkins is with me today. Roger, how are we doing?

I'm doing great. It's nice to be a special regular guest. That's very important.

Yes, at some point I will come up with a better name or title, but for now, you are a regular guest who's also a special guest. So thanks for being with me today and really excited today to share a podcast topic that certainly will be impactful to you, whether you're an agency owner or maybe you've got your producer and you have your own book of business. But this idea, this concept is our Are you running your business by design, with intentionality, or by default? So I'm going to ask Roger some questions around this key concept, get his perspective, and I'm sure I'm going to add some things as well. So, Roger, I want to start off just by before I even ask you the first question, there's a quote that I have shared in live trainings. You've heard it before from Jim Rohn, who said this. He goes, if you don't plan your life, there's a good chance that someone else will. And guess what they have planned for you. Not much. And when we were talking this week and talking about this concept of design versus default, that quote kind of jumped out at me that, you know, if you don't take action, if you don't plan your life, or in this case, your business, your agency, well, someone else will. And they don't have a lot planned for you. So what I want to first do is just get your perspective overall take on this concept, this idea of it's either by design or by default. What does that mean to you, Roger?

Well, as you said, we've had a lot of discussion about it and it really hit me two weeks ago now during our weekly accountability meeting where our team, you know, every Friday, as you know, we meet and hold each other accountable to do what we said we were going to do. And we're reviewing a lot of the changes have been brought about by COVID 19 and the effect it's had on our teams, the agencies and the individuals that we serve. And I was complimenting the team because everybody on our team has really, really raised their game. There's no doubt about it, they're continually finding ways to provide even greater value to the members. But as we were going through that, and we've talked about this before, I think you even mentioned it last week that Janie Cahill, our coo, came up with an excellent comment. She said, complacency doesn't live here. And that really hit me. And I was really proud of the team that everybody bought into that. But what really happened was this thought jumped into about agencies. And that's where I came up with, you know, you're either running it by design or default. And I guess it's just two different options. And default is pretty easy because just keep doing what you've always done and you'll be fine. Maybe that's where it started.

And I mean, I did reference it. It's just been so powerful when she said that, because it's something that I think we've talked around before. But, you know, it's one of those things is that just like every other business right now, you know, dealing with challenges, there's differences out there. What are we going to do? How are we going to approach things? And idea of saying, well, we'll just be complacent. And this, you know, the concept of, well, I hope we get lucky, and I hope things turn around. I hope, you know, and as you said before many times, hope isn't a strategy versus how do we go make luck. And I've talked about that too. Go make luck where? What do we need to do right now to prepare? What are the specific actions that we can take? We can't do everything, but what are things that we can control? And so I just love that when she said that. And of course, this idea as you started to kind of play with in your mind, and we've had discussions about, well, it's either design, certainly with insurance agency, or it's default, you know, And Roger, I want to get perspective too, because I know we had had previous discussions. A book that I have not read yet, but you have was a book called. It's called the Motive. Is that correct?

That's right. By Patrick Lencioni.

And you were sharing something with me. I'd love for you to share to the audience just about different titles and what they really mean. Could you expand upon that?

I've always enjoyed his books. If you've never got into the five dysfunctions of a team or the five attributes of a great CEO, I think it's pretty close to what the title is. Please do read them. But in the latest book, the Motive. One of the many lessons I learned in there was that they updated the titles or meanings of the job of the CEO. And CRO, of course. CEO, Chief Executive Officer, CRO, Chief Revenue Officer. But what he pointed out is that in the highest performing businesses, the Chief Executive officer is really the Chief execution officer. That person, he or she is in charge of making sure that people execute at a very, very high level and they're executing on the agreed upon behaviors and strategies for the agency. The Chief Revenue officer is really the chief reminding officer. God, I love that one. I think all too often as we see certain people, you know, they go to a one hour webinar or they attend a one day event and they quickly forget what they were taught. And yet the Chief reminding officer has got to constantly be reminding the salespeople, this is what we said we were going to do. This is what works. Don't get away from the basics. Do the blocking and tackling better than anybody else. So when I kept thinking about this and I think about some of the great members we have in our network, truly though, that see the CEOs of those great agencies, they're in charge of execution and the CROs are the great agencies. They're constantly reminding the producers to do the basics better than anybody else. And what a surprise, these are the ones that really aren't struggling during COVID It's not a cakewalk. They're not just automatically doing everything and they didn't automatically get everybody working from home, but. But what's interesting is they're still growing their business because they've been doing all the right things for the last few years. So just this whole Chief Execution Officer, Chief Revenue Officer. So I would just challenge the listeners to say who has those roles in your agency?

Those are fantastic titles. I love them as well. And just two thoughts as you're saying that I was chuckling on one. Well, chuckling and also just trying to have admitting my own faults, certainly even from a home perspective. But the first part when you say execution, it goes back to John Maxwell, quote in part of his books that he says over and over again that everything rises and falls on leadership. And you know, when I first heard that, I'm like, well, everything rises and falls. It's like, you know what it does because you set the tone and you're going to determine are we actually going to execute on this or not? Or is it just another idea that I throw out? Then we'll get through the day. And so there is so much truth to that. And the second thing, Roger, on a personal level, the CRO chief reminding officer, I go, man, that's my main title at home, you know, with my remember to do this, remember. But you know what's funny? As you were saying that one example with my daughters, my older daughters is like, you know, they've got certain things. It's like, hey, you've been on, you know, you've been on quarantine, no school. Now we're in summer, it's going to be a long five or six months. And so there's certain things you got to do. And reminding them, for example, to do the dishes the first few weeks of all the things, okay, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget. And what's funny is you were saying that all of a sudden after about three or four weeks, I'm like, they're just doing it because I've had to remind them, remind them. And it feels like I know for agency leaders, whether you're a sales manager or any other role, that, oh my gosh, do I really have to say this again? And I think what you just pointed out, the answer is yes, until they get it. And even when they get it, you probably still remind them and it goes back to you can't over communicate. So I just, I love that whole concept on that. One of the things that you have said both to me, Roger, and on some of the coaching calls you've been on and some of the trainings the last few weeks is that this will be a time where a lot of agencies will need to begin to right size. Right with COVID 19 and just the interruption and disruption with the economic landscape that we're seeing and we're going to continue to see of right size in your agency. And, and you know when you say that people are like, what do you mean by right sizing your agency? What does that look like? So I'd like to get your perspective on what does right sizing mean to you and what are maybe some specific examples that you see agencies right now having more awareness to right size their agency?

Well, there's no doubt about it, the best ones are aware of this and what it really is, it's part of design. Cause if you think about design overall, it's really saying, okay, what's our agency's way of doing business? That everybody buys into everybody's executing. And by the way, everybody's constantly reminded about. So these agencies that are doing great, their team has clarity around their vision statement, their Mission statement. They know the critical success factors, those few basic things they'll do exceedingly well all the time. And they know the key performance indicators that have got to be tracked. So when we look at this, we say, okay, what does right sizing mean as it relates to all of these things? Well, right sizing eventually gets to the point where you have right sized, that your key performance indicators are in place, they're being met, and the overall financial model for the agency is being met. So the first area that I would look at right sizing is revenue per employee and spread per employee. Do you have the right number of employees in your agency today? And the reality is, is that if every agency were really operating under that blinding flash of the obvious I had a few months ago and we did on one of the podcasts that if everybody in the agency did everything they said they were going to do, how great would the agency be? Okay, so if we start looking at the agency overall and we said if everybody did everything they said they were going to do, we'd probably be right sized. But if everybody was using all of the systems properly, following the processes, maximizing the technology producers were actually getting out there and producing, one or two things would happen. Your revenue per employee would get so high you can't outspend it. You know, kind of a tongue in cheek comment. But more importantly, our spread per employee would be great. Well, agencies are going to have trouble growing right now. Retention and revenue will be a challenge because of what's happening in the, as we come out of this, this downturn, who knows how long it's going to last. So I think agencies have got to start saying, what is this gets back to financial model. Brett, what's my financial model? And if my revenue per employee is less than $200,000, how am I going to solve that? Well, number one, I'm going to take a hard look. Do I really have the right number of employees? And you know, from the book, good to great, do we have the right people in the right seats all facing in the same direction? Okay, so it's right number of employees tied back to revenue per employee. And so many times through the years I've heard, well, you know, I know I'm overstaffed, but. But I'm overstaffed for growth. I'll say, great. How are you going to do that? We're going to sell insurance. Well, how are you going to do that? We're going to sell a lot of insurance and we talk about this all the time. There's no Set offense, there's no selling system, there's no pipeline, et cetera. So right sizing starts with do we have the right number of employees that will help us meet our financial model. And for a lot of agencies, the ones that are already growing, the ones we're working with closely, they don't have to worry about this because they've already exceeded it. But for a lot of agencies, they're quickly realizing they have to do more with fewer people. They've got to challenge people to step up to the plate, use the technology properly, do everything that the procedures and processes call for, and 97 other things, but get to the point where every employee that is still there is operating at a very profitable and very productive method. So right sizing starts there. The next one I look at a key performance indicator. We only talk about 212% of the time revenue per relationship. And we somewhat kiddingly say, you know, do you want to be a million dollar producer? And most people will say yes. In fact, that's one of our ads we run where I've got my hand up saying, hey, do you want to be a million dollar producer? I think every most certainly do want to. And then I'll say, well, you can't be a million dollar producer writing thousand dollars income accounts because you'd have to have a thousand accounts to get to a million. So the agency has to start right sizing the accounts they keep in house. This doesn't mean they don't keep the revenue on a lot of accounts, but I think they've got to take a hard look at 80 20, which of course is part of the design and just say which accounts, which transactions do we keep in house? Or is this a time that we finally have to face the reality on the 8020 and make some at least informed decisions on. Should I go to a service center? Are some of these accounts accounts I shouldn't be writing because they're PETA accounts. Pain in the you know what. But I think there's a lot of room there for growth and for a deep look. You know, we've talked about deep, the deep learning experience and execution. Time for a deep look to say what's really going on and how do I. Right size, number of accounts, more importantly revenue per account and revenue per employee, revenue per validated producer. Time to right size because you just can't float along anymore. That, you know, if you're just floating along hoping to come out the other side, that's the default, you know, things will be okay and they won't be.

As you were saying that, Roger, the three words I wrote down was house in order. And I know I'm not alone here. I think most of us spent more time at home in the last several months than probably we ever have before. Right. Whether they wanted to or not. And it's amazing amount of the, the home improvement projects and different things, even my own house, you know, just the things that we're doing because we're here so might as well work on things. And it's like, you know, it's time to get our house in order. And I think that for agencies are doing the same thing. And you know, one of my, my favorite aspects of coaching agency and agency leaders is to ask the questions to get them to really think. And you know, when we're moving a million miles an hour every day, every week in this hysterical activity, we can kind of make ourselves so busy that we don't have to. And I think this has been a time where you've got to take self reflection and go, let me really think about what we need to do to get our house in order, our agency in order, or to, you know, run it by design or right size or agency, whatever term you want to use. But here's the follow up question to that because I think it's one of those things, Roger, when you say, well, we want to have a revenue per employee at a certain number and our spread per employee for a certain number and we've got to increase our revenue per relationship. And you know, I always chuckle, I think you do too when people say, well how are you going to do that? Well you kind of alluded we're going to sell more insurance. How are we going to get higher revenue per employee? Well, we're going to get a higher revenue per employee. So it's not just about the numbers, right. It's about stuff behind the numbers. So what, what, what should agencies do other than first is knowing the numbers, right. Understanding what that means. But then what?

Well it comes back to deep again, delivering excellence in every process. And we look at the agencies, we've talked about this before, look at the agencies that are really getting deep on that execution. So delivering excellence in every process. They realize very quickly that you can't really manage the numbers. So as much as we talk about the key performance indicators, the numbers as part of the overall agency plan and financial model, one of the biggest blinding flashes of the obvious I had literally decades ago now is that you can't manage the numbers. The numbers are the end result of the work, it's what kind of falls off the production line at the end of the day. So what you can manage are the behaviors and strategies, the habits, if you will, that create the numbers. So rather than going to a producer who, let's say, has a low closing ratio and say, you know, Brent, you've really got to improve your closing ratio, okay, boss, work with me on the behaviors and strategies, the habits that I've got to improve. Because the only way the numbers, and I don't care if it's closing ratio, conversion ratio, operating profit, net new revenue growth, whatever number you're looking at, the only way those improve is to change behaviors and strategies. And that's a tough challenge when you've got people working at home. And it also gets back to something you talk about all the time. Can you over communicate? I've never seen an agency over communicate, yet. We see tremendous improvement in communication now because we just can't do the hey, how are you? And the random meetings. So people are getting more intentional. But again, it gets back to work. If you're my chief reminding officer, you better work with me to let me know, Roger, these behaviors are working against you, and these are the things we agreed you were going to do, but you're not doing them yet. How can I help you? How can I help you? That, to me, is a starting point.

Absolutely. And it's the deep, you know, part of that mentality. And, you know, it's because, you know, like most entrepreneurs are business owners and salespeople. It's. It's bright and shiny. And so I have a good idea today, and I certainly am chuckling at myself because I do this. And that's why I have coaches around me and mentors and accountability teams because it's like, wait a second, Brent, you said this was important. Did you finish it? No, I haven't yet. Right. Because it starts to get hard. Right. You have to actually go a little deeper to make those things happen. Because it's one thing to say, oh, we're going to. We're going to improve our numbers from X to yeah, but then how are we going to do that? And what is the consistency we have to provide and what are the conversations and, you know, all those things that go into that. So it really is impactful. You mentioned something a little a few minutes ago. Roger alluded to 80 20, and I've talked about 8020 on this podcast before. But I think there is no doubt that 8020 has really began to show itself even more. That's possible. Through the last several months in 2020. And I know, you know, there's different ways of looking at it, but what have you seen with 80 20, Roger? Just, you know, thinking of COVID 19 and then just what's happening right now? Have you seen 8020 to be more true than ever?

Well, I don't know that the numbers change dramatically. There's an awareness of them, that's for sure. And it's like I mentioned already, just looking at the accounts and say, what's going on in the bottom 50% of my customers for, you know, 99% of agencies, maybe it's only 98, but sort of the vast, vast, vast majority of them, the bottom 50% of their customers are 10% or less of their revenue. But what percent of their employees, their costs, you know, their headaches, their problems are there and caused by the bottom 50% of the customers. Now when properly handled, they're very, very profitable. But you know, and a lot of people, we use this term all the time, a lot of people refer to them as well, those are the bread and butter accounts. Those are the ones that pay the bills. If that's all that's paying your bills, you're in deep trouble or you're exceedingly profitable and don't know why. So again, take a hard look at the bottom 25% of the customers, bottom 50% of the customers, and make an informed decision. Not an emotional guess, but an informed decision that says, can I, how can I keep the revenue but get rid of the transaction, get the noise out of my agency so that my people that are here are every one of them working on larger revenue per relationship accounts and feeling comfortable being able to go deep in the relationship and really understand what's going on with that customer. And I don't care if it's vip, personal, select commercial, large commercial benefits, life insurance, whatever, but having the time to go deeper. Literally 100% of the time when I've met with account managers, CSRs, whatever we're calling them, whether it's in an in house consultation like I used to do, or now in our live programs, and I'll ask them, I'll say, do you feel rushed on a day to day basis or do you feel you have time to really know your customers and have a relationship with them? Of course the vast majority of the time is rushed. And also with everything being digitized, whether we're not necessarily talking to them anyway, then maybe why do we keep them in house? So I just think that's a huge starting point. The Other part of it that I'm seeing some movement on. And even though we've been preaching and everybody goes, Yeah, I know, 80, 20, but they're not my numbers, I'm seeing that they really do understand that the top 2% of their customers are probably a third of their revenue and the top 5% of the customers are 50% of the revenue. And something that we're clearly hearing from our best agencies and best producers we work with is they're having much deeper conversations with these people than they've ever had before. Why? Because there's time. They're not in that historical activity. So that's crucial. The next part of it that we don't talk about as much we do at our CEO programs, but I don't think we've talked about this on the podcast. It's really taken a hard look at 8020 as it relates to the carriers that you represent. Literally every time we've done a study like this, whether it's a small to average independent agency, I've even done a study with a national broker on this. And what we consistently find is the top 20% of the carriers you represent. If you list them, largest to smallest are the ones that provide that underwrite 80% of the premiums you sell. Thus of course, it's 80% of the revenue. So if the top 20% of your carriers are 80% of your premiums, your sales, then what's happening on the bottom 80%? And every time we've got an agency to look at the number of accounts that carriers they have and the revenue down there, they realize there's a lot of room for compression, for aggregation, whatever you want to call it. Now, is that for everybody? Nope. Should everybody reduce the number of customers they have or, excuse me, carriers they have? The answer is, when you look at the numbers logically, yes, by the way, there'll be an account that you lose for whatever reason. But the thing is, you know, Brent, when we, especially when we're doing our CEO program, the annual planning process, and we get agencies to really look at the carriers and look at the bottom 25% of the carriers, bottom 50%, invariably they say, who's that market? Who's that, that wholesaler, who's that ENS house, you know, whatever they're calling them, and they realize they've got a whole bunch of one off relationships where they write one small piece of business because some producer had something they needed. All of those can be moved someplace else. So this is a great time to start taking a deep Deep look at what's my 80 20, my carriers. I'll guarantee you the vast majority of agencies will be shocked when they look at it.

All of this conversation and what you just said in particular into 80 20. And again, we've referenced 8020 before. But as you were, as you were saying that and I'm just kind of looking through and thinking through some things with 8020 and beyond because 8020 is real everywhere. And it got me asking the question, and maybe I'll ask you the follow up to this, but I was asking myself the question is why or what makes maybe is the better way agencies run by default versus design. Now I think the first thing that, that we talked about goes back to what, what Janie said about complacency. I think there is that because it is a great business. So that, that certainly is a factor. I don't have to be okay in many cases until the tide goes out, as we talked about. Right. Then you go maybe, maybe we should. But I think the other thing with 80 20, you hit me. Is that why or what, what makes us not run by design versus default is I think we have too many ideas, I think we have too many goals, I think we have too many projects, I think we have too many voices. I could go on and on and on. It's just there's too much going on in our heads and externally that we can't go back to that concept, Roger, of delivering excellence in every process. It's really hard to deliver excellence when you've got 47 things to deliver excellence on.

Yep. Well, and we've talked about this before. There are always more great ideas than there is time or capacity to implement them. It's pretty simple. And so that's really the key to DLX2 and Deep is don't chase. We've talked about this. Don't chase 47 things or 93 things. Figure out those 1, 2 or 3 things in the main processes, main areas of your agency that will have a dramatic impact. That design exactly what it looks like. Start with the end in mind and then put an execution plan together. That's the key to it. And when you think about the default part and you hit the nail on the head, the reality is you don't have to do anything we talk about, at least in the past, you didn't have to. It's a great business. It's a business that you can just kind of, as I kiddingly say, show up, throw up and blow up and do the old way of selling that. Look Copy, quote and pray, and you'll be semi successful, you'll make good money, but you'll never be at true financial freedom until you sell, maybe sell the shop. And even then, you're giving up millions of dollars of value because, as we've talked, every hundred thousand dollars in today's marketplace, every hundred thousand dollars of unrealized profitability because of lack of growth, lack of managing the business, not having a proper operating profit, every hundred thousand dollars that you don't generate, you lose a million dollars of value. So, but by default, you can still do okay. And I realize I'm really on a soapbox here today, but I'm just so concerned about people, because what I see too often are people that come up and say, man, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have done that. And we talk about this in our programs. Look at everybody. First of all, everybody's going to leave their career. Everybody eventually leaves their business, whether they want to or not. And when they leave, they're going to have regrets or regrets. And regrets are pretty simple. You know, I should have done this, I should have done that, but I did. Okay. Greats are the people that they're consistently figuring out the great things. They narrow it to the vital few versus the trivial many. And then they execute on a deep, deep, deep basis. And they constantly remind people so that they don't stray, because, you know, how many times have we all heard, gosh, remember when we used to do this? It worked really well, but we stopped doing it. Why? I don't know. We just stopped doing it. Nobody reminded us. It's sort of like I've said, especially with the COVID Anyway, on top of this. But, you know, I'm not overweight because of my gym membership. Okay. More to do with how I'm doing on execution or. Or the wrong execution at this point.

So, yeah, I love that when you say that. It's just. But it just, it's funny, but it's true when you think about different areas of life. All right, Roger, I'm going to ask you one more question, which is my one thing question, but I'm going to give you some time to think about it, because there's something I saw this morning that fits perfectly into this conversation. But here's my question to you, so you can, you can ponder on a little bit. As I, as I read this, what is the one thing, if you're an agency leader listening to this right now, what's the one thing that you would advise or that you would do to start to move from default to design. And I'll preference this knowing that every agency leader is in a different position, different place. I get all that, but so think maybe a higher level. But what's just one thing that you would do, Roger, if you were to advise an agency leader right now to start to move from default to design? So you think about that and I'm gonna, I'm gonna read something I saw today and it fits into. All of this comes from James Clear. If you don't know James Clear, he wrote the book Atomic Habits. Great book. And just all the idea of consistency. There's nothing more consistent than Atomic Habits and that's what the book's about. But I love this. He had it on Twitter and I happened to see this. He said there are all kinds of cheat codes laying around, but they usually look boring. The cheat code is often the obvious thing. It's the fundamentals applied consistently and without distraction. There are many things people know work, but don't actually do. I was like, oh, really good. And it's just about the idea that cheat codes, is that the magic pill, right? Of oh, we'll just do this and we'll fix it. The cheat code is finding the very few things that you will over communicate to your team and yourself that you will agree and put in right to do consistently and you'll make a commitment to where there's accountability behind it. That's the cheat code. But that's not easy because you actually have to execute back to what you said earlier. So I'm going to spin that back around, Roger. Hopefully you got some time to think about my question. What's the one thing you would do to advise an agency leader to move from default to design?

Well, you're giving me an opportunity to do a blatant commercial here. Okay, but before I get to that, when you were doing that thing from the Atomic Habits guy, it also reminded me of something I read recently and it just rings true with so many people without being overtly commercial. We know the stuff that works. We've been doing this for a long time. You don't have to do the trial and error. It takes you too long and it's too expensive. We've already done it. And so this again, I wish I could remember where I read it, but they basically said it's not that these things won't work in your company, it's just you haven't figured out how to make them work in your company yet today. That just really hit me as you Were going through that. And so what's the one thing to move from default to design? Well, the blatant commercial is I get involved with Sitkins because we've got all of our virtual programs now you can take advantage of and just go to sitkins.com as a backslash profit and you can see some things. But what I'd really do is get very intentional and I would make sure that I understand the word clarity, which of course is part of our clarity, Commitment, clarity, consistency and commitment. Clarity is where am I today? Where do I want to go and how will I get there? Well, the COVID situation has cost people to stop and really see where am I today? Where am I today on my numbers? Where am I today on my plan? Or why don't even have a plan and then what do I have to do? And the next part of it is again, the DLX and deep model. Don't chase a thousand things. Figure out the one, two, maybe three things that will have the highest immediate impact on you and dive into deep in those areas because that's where you'll see the progress. That's where you'll see the progress. There's no magic pill. There's no waiting for my cell phone to ping or my computer to Bing whatever you want to say and something magically shows up. You've got to do the work, make the commitment to do the hard stuff now. And we've talked about this before, you can either do the easy way or the hard way. You take the easy way now, you have a hard life later. You do the hard stuff now, you'll have an easy life later. So right now it's a tough situation. But you know the old saying, the cream always rises to the top. We absolutely see that now. So get involved with your team in learning and something I always say, look, if you want to outearn others, you've got to out learn others. And so that's more than one thing.

Roger, thank you for sharing that. And you know, say it's an overt commercial. You know, one thing that we've talked about is that if we didn't believe in what we do and how we help and serve agencies be their best version possible, then, you know, it's like we owe it, we say this to insurance producers and agencies. You owe it to reach out to your best clients and your future ideal clients to be able to tell your story and to help them. Because what you do is impactful and important. And that's exactly what how I feel. And you feel and it's not right for everybody. We get that not everybody is, is a right person or agency for everything that we do. But I can also tell you with a hundred percent confidence, those that do fit, they will get better results. They do get better results. And it's not again, because there's something necessarily magical, but it's around about getting the right mindset and, and talking to the right people in the right way and, and that commitment of excellence in so many different ways. And then, of course, providing some resources and tools that maybe they haven't seen before, thought about before. So I appreciate your Ovid commercial. We didn't rehearse that or practice that. I know it comes from your heart, and I know we want to help agencies be their best version. So, Roger, anything else you want to add before. I know you got to, you got to get going here.

No, I mean, that's it. We've said enough things. People understand it just, you know, I hope you took a lot of notes. Why this if you weren't driving your car and pick those two or three things that are jumping out at you to say, you know what? These are things that can make a difference. These are things that can make a difference.

Yep, I would. And I would just say this. If you're not driving again, the one thing I always want, you have an action item, is just think to yourself, what is the one thing or the one way, the first step, however you want to define it, that I need to start to move. Where have I been defaulting and where do I need to move to design. What is that one thing that I need to start to become more designed. So appreciate you being a listener, Roger. Thanks for being on today and for everyone out there, all the best in your success.

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