From Commodity to Consultant: How to Win by Solving Real Problems with Dustin Boss of Emerge Apps

Welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. This is the podcast for independent insurance agency leaders to raise their game, to improve their performance, up their standards, and ultimately become their best version possible. My name is Brent Kelly. I am your host, delighted to be with you today, and super excited to bring on a guest today that has probably more energy than me, which I love. Uh, and you're probably gonna hear that in a little bit. And not only does this, uh, person have a lot of energy, but is absolutely passionate about helping independent insurance agencies. And I can't wait, uh, to ask him questions, hear his story so you can hear his story, and most importantly, find areas that he'll share today that are gonna help your agency become its best version possible. So without further ado, I wanna welcome into the Agent Leader Podcast, Mr. Dustin Boss. Dustin, welcome in.

Brent, always a pleasure to talk with you, sir.

Well, and I, if I get the title wrong here, Dustin, tell me, but I have you as co-founder and chief innovation officer of Emerge Apps. Am I close? Am I off?

It sounds sexy this morning. You know, it's, it's everything. It's, uh, the buck stops here. I'm responsible, you know, whatever, whatever my marketing gal has put on that list feels good, but no, I am the guy. I started Emerge Apps. So no, it's, uh, great title. Awesome.

Well, whatever the title is, I know you are the key passionate energy provider, and I know you've helped a lot of agencies. Uh, we're excited. We've got a partnership together. And outside of that, I just wanted to bring you on the podcast because you have so much value to share and to be able to get this out to the audience is super important. So Dustin, we'll just start very high level. Tell me, who the heck are you? Tell me a little about Emerge Apps and how you got started and what it looks like today. What do y'all do?

Well, that's a great question. I'm going to go all the way back to when I was 5 and 7 years old. That's a scary statement, right?

All right.

Like every young kid, they want to be a fireman. They want to be a police officer. Not this guy. I want to be in the insurance industry. So, and that couldn't be further from the truth. You're right. So, um, my father's, uh, agency leader here. Um, so I'm, uh, I'm an insurance agent kid. And came in the industry and never really wanted to be involved, but brought it in there. And I decided at some point I got to sprout where I am planted. And I really, really took it and really got passionate about this industry. So along my journey, I say one part because I probably get obsessive and really try to target an issue and maybe a little bit of lack of social life, Brent, is I really poured my heart into where I can find pain and how I can be better at my job. So that's where the software side came in and, you know, it opened up all sorts of opportunities. And, uh, that's where I am today leading, uh, Emerge Apps and working with hundreds of agencies around the country.

So you're obviously an insurance nerd. I say that politely, right? Or is that fair?

Every woman's dream, Brent. I'm an insurance nerd and a computer nerd. I mean, what kind of combination? You know, right.

That's what I, that's what I mean. I mean, you've combined the two highest levels of nerdom, insurance and computers. That's right.

That's right.

And put them together. And the magic thing is you have a dynamic personality on top of it. So I don't know where all this came from, but all kidding aside, again, with your personality, Dustin, but obviously Emerge Apps came to be for a reason, right? You know, there was issues and problems you guys saw, obviously being a long-term person in the business, right? In the industry, you saw some of these needs. So. Share, however, you know, whatever aspect you want, Dustin, but like, how did Emerge Apps come to be and what specific problem or problems are you looking most to solve?

Yeah, I mean, it really boiled down to first how our agency wanted to shift how it was perceived out in the marketplace. How are we going to win new accounts? Are we going to be the bidders, the quoters, and are we going to, you know, run that, that rat race and win or lose based on being a commodity? So, It really shifted with that philosophy of how do we differentiate? And we really looked at how do we become more of a risk manager within our, uh, our wonderful community. And I looked at what my unique skill sets were. You know, I, uh, been programming since I was a kid, building technology, building websites. And so I see all these pain points as I'm working with employers, you know, manufacturing, construction organizations, and I'm seeing Man, there's these pain points. And if I can build a tool, if I can connect the dots and I can show them value, you know, that's a differentiator. And so we started doing it. We started with one application around OSHA recordkeeping, which may seem like the least sexiest topic from a workers' comp or how to write business, but it's been incredible for us. And really to come full circle, built tools that I can give away to employers in my neck of the woods. That allow me to connect with them, to help them. You know, I don't, didn't ever hide the fact that I'd love to work with them on the insurance, but it's, hey, I know you have an insurance agent relationship. I'd be concerned if you didn't. I'm here for you if something changes. Now that sounds very altruistic and very helpful, but when I know if I get my foot in the door, I can start popping the hood and start looking for problems. So it's one part, how do I try value? How do I find problems? And how do I break that relationship down between the current agents? So that is a, another overview of, of how all this led to where we're at. But where there's pain, there's problems, and where there's problems, there's premium and, and potential commissions for us to get rewarded for the work that we're doing.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I want to dive a little deeper in some of that and some of the specific things that you do, but just from an overall perspective, I mean, one of the things that obviously you know, we love about you is we align right in so many different areas of, of how we want to communicate to people and differentiation, as you pointed out. In fact, one of our basic premises, Dustin, is that we want to shift or change the conversation from quotes and transactions to risk advice and relationships, right? And that's not always easy to do for insurance agents. They're just not. And in fact, uh, we talk a lot, Dustin, about, you know, most producers, most agencies, when we say, what makes you different? They typically give us generic answers, right? We've been around for a long time. We're competitive. We have really good service. We have really good people. We can shop the marketplace. And although those are true, they're very generic. Mm-hmm. And you know, so what I love about what you do is you begin to give specific, tangible ways for agencies to say, this is exactly how we're different. So you mentioned the OSHA logs. What are some other things that you all do at Emerge Apps where if I was an agency, I'm like, wow, I didn't know that was out there. I didn't know we could do that.

Yeah, let me answer that by stepping back just one moment and pivoting off of what you just said and put the points of differentiation. There's very, I call them micro points of differentiation. How can I go dive in on OSHA records, safety programs, workers' comp experience mods? but how can I also have that overarching macro story when somebody asks me, what do you do that is different? Now, do I have, uh, you know, 15 minutes to tell the, the wonderful corny jokes that I shared with you this morning? Probably not. And I gotta be able to say, you know, ultimately I, I work on prevention first. Insurance is the last thing I focus on. I get hired and I work with employers to create healthier, safer, more productive workplaces. And I engage, I typically connect with and bond with those employers that want better outcomes and better performance. If you're looking for a bid and a quote and you want to churn and use that commodity game and go burn through 5 agents when you bid and quote, I'll be honest with you, I could do that, but I'm probably not going to be able to do any better than what you're currently getting. And honestly, the insurance industry gets frustrated with that and you're going to be looked at as a less advantageous carrier, uh, you know, opportunity because you've got how many different agents. So that is my overall positioning. And then to your question is, okay, now how do I start that engagement? Because not everybody's willing to hear that wonderful passionate story at any given time. So I got to find those micro-engagements, those micro-moments that I can say, how can I help you? How can I engage with you? And the OSHA records was a key one because every company with 20 or more employees, they have to digitally file injury data with the Federal government. So, right. I don't know when this podcast is going live, but hopefully you just paid your taxes, Brent. And we have a lot of fun with just like you have to send your taxes to the IRS. You have to send your injury data to the Department of Labor. I'm still shocked at the number of agents that don't help their clients with that. And it's a, our tool, OSHA Logs is the only tool in the United States that works like TurboTax. It will do that automatically with and for and guide an employer through that process. So the point of it is I have one particular risk issue and I can shine a light on it and I can with a wink with an employer and say, if your agent isn't helping you with this issue, what else aren't they helping you with? And then that opens up the discussion because for everybody that's seen an OSHA lock before, they're basically like getting loss runs, Brent, without getting loss runs. So we don't have to tip off the other agent that we're working on a prospect. And I can see how many days away from work. So that's what started it all. And then to your actual question, okay, what else? Well, based on that discussion, we want to bring up, uh, you know, how are you building a chain of safety within your organization? Where are you finding the pain points? How do we prevent these injuries from happening in the first place? We built a product called Automate Safety, which really targets the heart of where a lot of employers struggle with communicating safety. And, uh, we built basically an automatic Toolbox Talk system that sends the trainings directly to the employee's cell phone. No login, no download, no password. Huge hit. And just another way for me as a producer to go give, to go help. So that's, and then, so before I go off on more of a tangent here, it's, it was just that kind of back and forth of value, pain, gap. Value pain gap and go, hey, is your agent really— might be a great person, but maybe he's, he or she's not a great agent and they can be a friend. I could be a friend. How can we work together? What's best for the organization? Yeah.

Love that. So I, what I wanna do, um, I've got more questions, but there's some things again, as you said, that get me thinking too. And I think just sharing to the audience, like, cuz I even go back when I said, but we're gonna shift from quotes and transactions to risk advice and relationships and like, For a lot of agencies and producers, some of the questions, well, how do I do that?

Right?

Because what do most buyers want to talk about? Or what do they think they should talk about? Quote, transactions, price, right? That's what everyone else has talked about. No one's really engaged me or what I want to get to is ask me the right questions to go, huh, I've never considered that. And I know you know this, Dustin, and we talk about this all the time that people buy emotionally. And they'll justify logically, right?

Mm-hmm.

We all do that. It's the human existence, right? Emotion is what creates some of that urgency or pain or whatever it is and go, oh, what does this mean? And what I love about what you guys do, cuz again, we align so well, is we tell this to, to agencies all the time that typically most business owners, I know it's different in personal lines to a degree, but for business owners, they care about 3 things more than anything, their profits, their clients, and their employees. That's really what you guys help them do. Bingo. Right? Which is to me so exciting. So, um, again, I just wanna share some of that because I just think for the listener, like, wait a second. Like, yeah, I would love to be able to do that more. What I think you guys do so exceptionally well, I mean, we could get into the tech and the tools and how awesome it is and it's on your phone and I mean, it's, it's incredible. Go check it out. Like I'll, I'll say to someone, go check out Emerj Apps and what they do cuz it's incredible. But I think the biggest thing that you help fill the gap is I'd like to go from here to here. I would like to move away from a commodity. Agency or a producer to do more of the risk advice and the benefits advice and the relationship and leveraging technology to build deeper, more effective quality relationships. But gosh, how do I do that?

Well, and I'll even take it one further, Brent. All these apps, you know, we've got, uh, 6 different applications that we build. We've got 2 more coming out next year and they're my babies, they're my children. I'm proud of them. But I would send them right to the orphanage if they didn't help me do what you just said. Is where we're different, a little bit of self-promotion here, is that as a consumer, as an agent, you know, you get an excitable guy like maybe me and you to sell you on a product.

Yeah.

And then there's no implementation or like you get served by somebody who's never sold an insurance policy before. And it's like, here's the deck, here's a log and go figure it out. We are very conscious and we hyperfocus on The tool is a means to an ends to help an agent build a relationship and to show pain. The tool absolutely has to be valuable. The employer has to want to use it. Otherwise, the strategy goes out. But the, it's a means to an ends to exactly what you just said. And I think whether it's EmerjApps or any other InsurTech vendor, where we have found and where I have found, that is where the biggest gap is with all the InsurTech out there.

Yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we can sit and again, this isn't a, I mean, th— there's such advantages, such cool stuff with tech, but like how many people have this and either don't know how to use it or don't use it. Right. Or, and, and, you know, my silly analogy here, Dustin, is I am about as, I don't know, inadequate as possible when it comes to contracting stuff. Right. Like I'm the guy that have a tool belt and I'd be like, I don't know what half these things do. I can have all the tools. But if I don't know what they are, how to use them, pretty ineffective, right?

Well, um, and why do you use them? So I think that's the key thing is the how and the what, but the why. And I think that's what you're getting at is why are we doing this? We want to be able to have multiple opportunities throughout the year to go position ourselves as a different type of agent in our community. And we can do it outside of the insurance renewal cycle. We use an analogy of a grizzly bear. When do I want to fight? Do I want to fight when the grizzly bear is hungry? Certainly. Trying to defend their kill at renewal time or when they're happily snug in their cave thinking about the commission dollars. So I think that is a big part. How do we, how are we able to do that? So, uh, yeah, I jumped in. I get excited.

So, no, you're right. We're, we're, we're both excitable, but I think that just shows the passion, right? But for the industry and what you do, and I think, you know, one thing I do want to, I want to ask you about some successes and some examples that you've seen. I think people can relate to that. But going back to, I mentioned, you know, people care about profits, clients, employees, and the human side. What I really enjoy Dustin, and the stuff you talk about. I mean, you talk like, like prevention first, like you get to the heart, like the emotion of what really insurance is. You know, the reality is this, and I do this little game with producers all the time, right? If you were the average insurance buyer and I give you one word, and the word, by the way, is insurance, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Like, it's usually like, ugh, expensive, complicated, right? All this stuff that comes up. But at the heart of it, what it does and what it serves is Beyond valuable. The economy doesn't exist without it. People's lives are changed because of it. And you really get to the human side on what you all do. I care about your employees. I care about your clients, like, and we do things to make their lives better, to make your lives better. So there was no question in that other than Dustin agree.

And no, it's so here, here is where I think. The next leap is, is if that's truly how we feel, insurance is very important, but it is the last line of defense. So when I go to talk to an employer, I say, I'm not putting insurance down. It's vital. It's important. It's part of our process, but that should not be the foundation of our program. If we can focus on preventing problems, target the root causes, position you as better than average than the insurance marketplace. Protect you in ways that I don't care how much insurance you purchase, you will never be able to protect your organization. Here's the last thing is we actually do care. We want your employees to go home healthy and safe to their families each and every day. And by doing it, we're gonna be able to tap into less insurance and we're gonna be able to position as a best-in-class employer. So I, uh, 100% agree with that.

Yeah. And I just think about this. You, you're right. It's the last line of defense. I mean, like, You know, like, is it good that there are healthcare providers that give surgery when it's absolutely vital? Yep. But sometimes, and again, that's one example, or it could be a drug, right? Again, I'm not trying to put those things down, but there's often many things before that if we would've addressed, we never would've had to get to that. And I think that's the big part with insurance is like, hey, let's get to the root cause first because you control some of that or you have more control. In some of those things, at least, versus whatever, and then insurance will take care of it later, which of course we know causes all kinds of problems.

And by having that strategy, it gives you ample opportunities to react, to respond, and to engage with your clients and your prospects throughout the year when insurance isn't even on the radar. So they get to know you, like you, and trust you. And it's easier to have those discussions about You know, is your agent really doing what? Can I come, can I explain our process? It creates those opportunities naturally.

Yeah. Yep. And you know, one thing, and what I want to lead into, Dustin, is just some examples of successes you've, you've had, right? In working. And again, this is a toot your own horn, but you guys have done some incredible work with agencies and teams. And a visual that we often paint is an iceberg, which, you know, an iceberg is 90% below the waterline. You can't see it. And what we talk about, and I know you're familiar with this, is that above it is the price and product. Well, to be real clear, the price and product, like, ultimately is determined one day a year. Like, here's the product, here's the price, here's your policy. Now, obviously it goes throughout the policy period, but it's what's below the waterline that impacts that price and product. And that's so much of what you all do, right? You do all the stuff below the waterline that some people don't see, but has significant impact. On that price and product, and quite frankly, just the experience itself. So I would love for you, and you could probably go all day on this, but just share some areas that you guys have been able to impact agencies below the waterline, success stories that have made their lives, their businesses better and easier.

Yeah, I'll give you one. And, and I love, and I'll pivot off that analogy. It's, you know, how do we, how do we provide those, that scuba gear to an employer to get below that waterline with us and for them to jump in, put their eyes in there, go, oh my gosh, I didn't realize that was Awesome. So I'll give you one. So that's actually a success story that we had in our agency. It's one of the accounts that my father Andy and I worked on. We've had a lot of success with this process and with our tools and scholarshipping our tools to like local contractor associations. So just connect the dots real quick and I'll get into that is part of our business model is we don't charge agencies by account or by employee you put on the system. You buy one flat fee. You can have 2, 20, 2,000 employers, we don't care. So that allows us to help you go to like a local chamber or a contractor association, manufacturing association, and scholarship these tools to their members as a way to give back. That is an example. I'll give you one of, we, local contractor association here in Grand Rapids, about 400, the subcontractor accounts that are prime, just those accounts you want to write. So we put this deal together, we got up in front of the group and we presented. And long story short, there was a large cement contractor that said, hey, we would love access to your tools, but we're going to be honest with you guys. We had a long agent relationship. Is this a bait and switch? Is this really something that, you know, you're going to take away? So guys, you know, we're always going to ask, we would love to work with you, but this is not that way. You love your agent. Cool. We'd be concerned if he didn't. Let's use our tools. We'll help you get fired up. And it was using the OSHA Log System. Long story short, part of our process, because we're such good guys, Brent, is we said, hey, we will then upload all your old OSHA logs into the system. We'll help you review them. But what did we find? We found 4 injuries that had lost days with more than 7 days away from work. If you are a work comp nerd like I am, if you know in the state of Michigan, that means those claims our surcharge on the workers' comp policy. So we're able to call our contact there and said, hey, we know you said you love your agent and you guys are super happy. Have they ever showed you the financial impact of this issue? So they said, all right, we'll come listen to you. We come, we show them, we show up with a couple pages on a report. They sat with us with a grumpy look and said, here is an entire pack of paper of what our agent just dropped off with our loss. In the process. Tell me what you're gonna do different. I said, throw all that in the trash. I'll show you one piece of paper. And I showed them how these claims that were 8 days, 11 days, 12 days away from work caused 40% surcharge on the workers' comp because they didn't have Return to Work Program. So we won that account. We took that over an agent record letter, but it's the process of engaging, helping, and having that natural moments to say, hey, I know you said you love your agent, but can I show you this? It's about engagement, engagement, erosion of that current agent relationship. Age, I'm sorry, age expose erode. That's my little tagline. So we were able to expose that issue and then erode that, uh, relationship. So that's just, it's just one prime example. And that is what caused us to keep building the tools. Agents all over the country had those same, same examples of how to engage and help, but it, it really comes down to that. Gotta go help people. You gotta wanna be a giver and, uh, allow those points of differentiation to mature. Sometimes they're fast, sometimes it takes a little while, but build relationships, build friends, show pain. Yeah. That's what we wanna do.

Yeah, it, it is about you and relationships and reminds you of the very famous quote. It's been around for a long time. If you help enough people get what they want, you can have anything you want.

It just creates a more of a natural way to be a human being and not try to overthink it. And, um, You know, if you can be helpful and supportive and, uh, you know, they got enough people knocking on their doors trying to bid and quote shop their insurance.

Yeah. You know, Dustin, one of the things I'm not going to like get into all of our like selling stuff because some of it's really basic. It's just how you execute it. But like, you know, the power of this is coming in and asking future ideal clients, our terminology, open-ended peer-to-peer based questions, right? Like, could you share with me your current process of, or how do you determine this? And when you've got those tools, because you're asking questions out of genuine curiosity. Like, how do you solve this? How do you handle this? What's your process of? And they go, I have no earthly idea. And then you can talk more about it. The light bulb goes on and guess what? Not only are you serving that client at a high level, you're creating some real emotional pain and connection that makes you the pretty obvious choice of who to work with.

Well, and it is pivot points. So you find one thing that gets their interest. So you start, we've been talking a lot about Osho Lock. So you start there and then I can explain to them, hey, as you've seen what this does to your mod. We have another product called ModShare, which is our take on the ExperienceMod software, which has been extremely successful. And then we're able to, hey, let's run a mod report to show you the financial impact on that. So we can spiderweb and we show all of those issues. We use an analogy of a Trojan horse. It's applicable because, you know, the Odyssey movie's coming out with Christopher Nolan. You know, he's— I don't know if you saw the previews. Looks pretty neat. But anyway, These are Trojan horse tools that we can give to an employer. We get behind the current agent's defenses and then we can deploy our soldiers to take out the current agent in that relationship. So we need an anchor, but then we can, we can, uh, uh, spiderweb and we can replicate. Um, that's, that's how all this stuff fits. I love it.

I love it. So question I want to ask, this isn't some, I mean, certainly could be based on what you all do because you're, you know, you, you see things all the time, but people ask me the question, you know, hey, you talk to agents all the time. Like, what are you seeing? What What are things that are jumping out? Right. And, and I'm trying to put you on the spot, Dustin, but like, you know, again, you have a lot of interactions, you're in the weeds, you're in the game. What are some things, or maybe a thing that you see for 2023 is an emerging trend or something where it's like, I'm seeing a lot more of this and it's jumping out at you.

I, I think there's just, you know, doing what I do here and working with, with agents and, you know, it, it really changed my perspective on the agent community. You know, you got people who, really are passionate. They really want to do well. You got people who promise the world they really can execute. And I think there is a void of finding good people at agencies too. So how do we help enable these folks depending on their skill set or their experience to deliver results? So, and I think it's going to accentuate with the whole AI, you know, AI is going to change the world. It's going to be simpler. It's going to be easier to be lazy or easier not to know certain things and how do you enable folks to be successful? So I really see it as, um, to come back, you got two types of agents. You got the agents who bidders and quoters, and then you got, uh, agents out there who proclaim to be risk managers. And the reality is, uh, they may be talking risk management, but don't really execute. So I, as an agent and as, uh, working with other agents, I say don't Don't run away from those accounts who they, they're working with an agent who thinks they're a risk manager because we can poke holes because they're not really executing. So that's something that has worked really well for us. We're not in a vacuum. We're not just competing against agents who bid and quote. We're, we're competing against agents who say they're risk managers, but they're not really doing any risk management. Yeah.

Yeah.

That surprised me most, Brent. I mean, it might sound silly when I started, you know, working with agents and I would ask them, tell me about your process. Tell me about how you position yourself. And then, you know, they might try to come up with those points of differentiation, but when you really get to it, what do you, what are you really doing that's any different? So, yeah. Yeah.

No, I, 100%. Um, and you know, it's just, and I think going back to technology, I mean, we can, we can go through a number of examples of it. I mean, I don't care if you're talking about the internet. You know, fax machines. I mean, I think I was, when I started, that was, we still had fax machines. Whatever it is, advent of technology. I mean, AI is its own animal, but like part of this is like, yeah, it takes away some basic stuff. The internet took away some basic stuff. Email took away some basic stuff. I mean, we could go down any type of technology, iPhone, right? Or any smartphone. So to me, it's like, what does that mean for you as a human? What's your next level? Because to me, this is my, my take on this, Dustin, the lazy will be replaced.

And, and they will not understand how to use the technology. Now, guys, I, I own every single AI service and I love it and I build it and I work with it. But the reality is you still have to know what to ask it and you still need to be able to engage with it. And so the, I guess the point is what tools, what technology to create more opportunities to be a human being in front of human beings and to building relationships and to support and help. And that's not going to change. And we're going to be able to do more as individuals, but we, with the tools, but then we have to be capable and motivated and motivating to others to want to engage with us. And so, you know, there's a, there's lots of opportunity. I think it's, it's an exciting time.

Yeah. And this is just me on my soapbox for a second, but I think like, you know, life is full of context, right? You can look at things, the exact same thing, and people look at it very different, right? You can look at something like AI and go, uh-oh, don't like it. That's weird. That's creepy. Or you could look at it and go, wow, what a cool opportunity.

It's, it's going to make the bet, the better agents better. And, and it's going to create a bigger, bigger gap between those that embrace it and those that do not. And, um, and we look at the same way with our technology. How can we use it? How can we infuse it? But ultimately, how can we create those moments regardless of the technology, regardless of the topic to create moments to find pain, to find a gap and to let them passive aggressively decide that, hey, my agent is not doing what they need to be doing. I'd rather work with Brent or rather work with Dustin. How does that happen?

So Dustin, I want to ask you kind of, I guess it's a bit of a self-serving question, but it is, it is a partnership question. You're now part of our preferred partner network. And of course we work with, you know, agencies all over the country or North America. We've got Canadian brokerages as well. And I don't know if this, again, I'm just, I'm curious. I mentioned we're so aligned and I have my standpoint for how you view things and the human experience and relationships and obviously be able to deploy some of these tools to have deeper conversations. But what intrigued you about us? I'll ask here live on the podcast. Like, what is it? Where do you see the alignment?

Well, first, you know, I tell, I told the story a couple of times, well, you know, in front of some other sessions with your group, but it's a fun one. You know, being in, in our area here in West Michigan, there was another agency that worked with you guys and we could not We could not join. Our agency was locked out and it really upset us just because, you know, we wanted to be a part of, of your guys's organization and they were really good competitors and we knew that it's something we wanted to be a part of. So we always really held you guys up in high esteem, but we didn't, we were always frustrated and frustrated and that's the value that you create, right? And that's the goal. That's why people want to be members of yours. So what I love what you guys do is you really bridge, you know, how to help agency leaders help in engage their producers, to give them value, to, to help them understand why this is important. Not just what you need to do because we want commission dollars. It's how to strategically align all the partners from the producers to the leadership team. Really just impressed with how you guys operate. And I'd say the quality of the agencies that you guys bring to your group, it's, it's, it's pretty amazing. Yeah.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's something we say all the time, you know, we're not a substitute for leadership, nor should we be. but we're a catalyst, uh, and to help educate and empower and equip agencies where they need it. Cuz it's their agency, it's their culture, but there's gaps that we see. And if we can help them fill that, there are better leaders, better people on their team, better outcomes. All that good stuff comes with it.

And, uh, and you can't do that alone, you know, to have, have a group and have the, the leadership that you guys have. And of course the other agencies in the room, you know, it's, it's a quality, quality network, 100%.

So before I ask you my official last question, which means I'll probably ask questions after the last question, just a very, very quick plug on it. We're on here. And again, I've mentioned this before in the podcast, but if you are an agency that's a high-level agency, you're a really good agency and we don't work with bad agencies, right? Not that I'm trying to stereotype agencies, but like those growth agencies and you know, there are some gaps and you want to have a perspective. We'd love to have an initial call with you and that's all it is. We don't put pressure on anybody. It's about perspective, not pressure. And also, just as a, a note, uh, if you go to sitkins.com/podcast, resources and tools that we talk about on this show are in there. So go check it out. Uh, there's some really good stuff there you can grab. Uh, and we really do wanna provide value to agencies at the highest level. So I wanna make sure I made note of that. So Dustin, I haven't asked you my final question, which probably isn't the final question yet, and I didn't tell you what it was. But are you ready for the final question?

I'm willing. I'm able. I'm here, buddy.

You got, you got your coffee ready? I see.

I got ready. All right.

So here's the question. So Dustin, you've been doing this, how long have you been in the game? Right? I mean, you, you been wanting to be an agent since you were 7 years old or whatever, as you said, but like, how long have you been actively in the game?

2004. So right outta college. So I've been doing this, uh, 21+ years. So yes. Okay. All right.

So 21 years, by the way, you're now old enough in your anniversary to, to drink apparently. Currently, right? Congratulations on that.

I used to always be the young and now I'm the middle-aged guy. So, so I'm impressed.

I remember approximately what, 8 years ago when I realized I couldn't go to the Young Agents Conferences anymore. Technically, I was like, wait, oh, right now I'm getting ARP notifications anyway. All right. So, so here's my question. You today, Dustin, you leave this conversation and this is going to be a weird question, but you walk out of your office there, you go outside. Nice day. I don't know if it's a nice day there or not, but it's springtime. And all of a sudden you run into the 21-year-ago version of you, the younger version of you just coming out of college. Right. And the younger version of you looks at you today and says, oh my gosh, older, smarter, wiser version of me that's been around for a while. If you could give me one piece of advice today, what would it be?

Don't stop. Don't quit. Keep going. I mean, that is a sore spot for me. I mean, a really emotional spot because when I started, Brent, you know, I was going to go to law school and I was all in. I was going to go to DePaul in Chicago. Um, it's always been my dream to do that. My, uh, my senior year of college, my brother got in a really bad accident. He's fine now. He's fine. But it kind of changed my perspective a little bit what I wanted. Also, I married my high school sweetheart. And so I was like, you know, maybe that's not for me. Well, my dad, I call him up and said, Dad, you know, I think I've changed my mind. I think I do want to be in the insurance industry. Because he was telling me about the agency shifting into the risk management world. This does connect, so you'll, you'll, you'll feel this in a second. And he said, hey, awesome, Dustin. There, we are moving to this new program. We're moving to this compliance program around safety. And with your, with your love of law and getting into contracts, man, you'd be perfect to help us. Drive that within the agent said, perfect. What my dad didn't tell me by he meaning drive, the way I was going to work is go be a prospector and go be a bird dog and go drop off. And he gave me 400 names to go do drop-offs. I had 100 a week and that was my job. I had to go do drop-offs. That's where this, the love of the compliance and all these issues. So I was the most scared individual. I was a computer guy, Brent. So I had to break out of that, but I, there were moments where I'm just sitting in my car on a cloudy morning and I'm going, what did I do? 6 months ago, the worst thing I had was what party am I gonna go hang out at Michigan State and with my buddies? And I'm going, what happened? And, uh, so what I would love to, there were moments, my dad was such a good mentor where I just, I just didn't want to do it. And I, and I just felt like I wasn't going to be able to be successful. Prospecting is hard, even when you, you, but I had, I was just newly married and I didn't want to quit. So I kept, kept driving. How do I be different? How do I be helpful? And as awkward as I initially was, I didn't quit. There was one moment I wanted to quit about 8 months in and I went to my dad and I said, Dad, I can't do this. I haven't had any success yet. I think I'm just burning out. And he goes, son, now you're ready to get started. And he pushed it. So part of what I love to do is whenever I hear, especially because we do have a, you know, in industry, a lot of fathers and sons working together, I will get on my soapbox and I will corral and I will jump and talk to an agency, a father, and let me talk to your son and just, just keep going. Do not quit. It's amazing what happens if you don't quit and just keep getting better, keep getting better. So that's what I would say. And I would reassure that young Dustin Boss that you can be successful. Just keep going and keep, have the right attitude, manage what's in this brain. So that is a real story. And you know, when I started, you know, uh, my buddies were, hey, isn't it great? You got a job with your dad and what an easy gig. So guys, I went 6 figures in, in debt on a draw. It wasn't easy. I had to, I had to build out of that. With sales commissions. So it was not easy. And so, but there's so much opportunity in this business. If you just keep going, you're gonna hit a roadblock. Keep, keep going. Can you tell there's a little bit of passion there, Brent? Um, with Christian?

100%. That's, uh, that's why I love talking to you cuz it's, it's real, it's authentic and it's powerful. And, you know, I always, I ask that question to guests and I, there's no wrong answer, right? I mean, there, there, there's just your answer and You know, but I always take little notes and nuggets for me just as reminders. And again, it's more than just this. One thing that hit me is that embrace the discomfort. I mean, 100%. That's, that's life. And another thing that I heard, and you know, you mentioned your dad several times and wow, what an awesome mentor, obviously to be your dad. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Very, very, you know, he's co-founder of Emerge Apps as well. He's, instrumental in these ideas and these concepts. And he was really there to help me and my brother in the business. And that's why I'm passionate to help others. I kind of feel and felt that, and I know how important to have that mentorship and just have someone come alongside you and go, you know, we can be different. We can be helpful. Not everybody has that. And I think to go back to what you were saying, Brent, about what the Sitkins organization offers, just seeing how you guys interact. With your customers. I mean, that's a role that you guys play extremely well to help in that role, uh, from my perspective.

Well, a quote that I share quite a bit, um, and I love it. It's funny because it's true in so many different areas. And, you know, you always hear quotes and things, you're like, okay, that's nice. And then you hear more stories like, boy, that is so true. And the quote comes from Charlie Tremendous Jones, which, by the way, if you ever get to a point, Dustin, where someone nicknames you your middle name Tremendous, you're doing pretty well. Right? So you're now Dustin Tremendous Boss. Congratulations.

All right.

I actually have his book back there. He was a life insurance guy and then he became a speaker and author and all that kind of stuff. But his quote was this, in 5 years, you'll be the exact same person you are today, except for the people that you meet and the books you read. And you know, when I talk to people in this journey, again, I know it expands a bit beyond that, but generally it's like, Who are you connecting and associating with? And what are you putting in your head?

100%.

And that's the difference. You have some people 10 years from now, they're pretty much the same person. And there's some people that go, I surrounded myself with mentors or people that were willing to challenge me, people that wanted to believe in me, that wanted to go places. I hung around with them. That is why I love our community. I agree, right? We have high-level leaders and they think different. They're not perfect. They're coachable. Like, hey, they've done some amazing things, but there's more I don't know yet. What is it? What can I learn? How do I get better? And they're also always putting stuff in their mind of, I didn't know that yet. What does that mean? How do I apply that? And that's again, big reason why I love talking to you and what you put together with Emerge Apps, because there's stuff there that A, it connects people, B, there's foundational knowledge that gets people to take steps in the next direction.

Well, and I think to bring it full circle with, you know, the goal of Emerge Apps and with these tools and to connect with buyers is to have those conversations, to peel that onion back that this isn't just an account. It's not just a commission dollar. It's not just a premium dollar. How do we engage with them to think about the things that they struggle with? If you were to ask, you know, you ask an agent, are you comfortable enough to ask that question to your best clients, to that HR person you're working with, to that CFO that you're working with? If you're there, that's where you can really create not only connection, but also where you can really get at how, what do you want for your company? What does the next 5 years look like? Is it just savings or is it like, hey, Do you want to turn the business over to your kids? What's the goal? And, um, that's what all this allows us to do. So to come full circle, not to be self-serving, you know, these, I built these tools to help me have those conversations easier and to get plugged in in many places in many different ways. Um, cause that's ultimately what I want to do. I want to connect with people and want to help them. So. Love it.

Love it. Well, I know we'll get your information in our show notes, uh, when we publish this podcast, but Dustin, again, there's people listening going, hey, this is interesting. I want to learn more about it. Where do people find you? How do they connect with you, Dustin?

If you go to emergeapps.com, there's a little button up in the right-hand corner that says request a demo. You will connect with me. You can schedule a conversation. I can take you through the applications. We can spend a half an hour just talking about strategy and how this fits. Whether or not you work with me, I'll be your friend and talk to you and work with you. We like to make those connections. You can email me at dustinboss@emergeapps.com. You can shoot me a text at 616-635-7314. I love interacting with, uh, with agents and helping them any way I can.

Yeah, it's awesome. Well, seriously, connect with Dustin, whether it's his, that online, the web, the email, the text, uh, he'll talk to you.

Smoke signals. Send me some smoke signals. I'll find you. I'll find you.

Smoke signals. Uh, he'll do, anyway, we could go down the line here, but I will say this, go, go take the demo. Like, I mean, Um, and again, if you didn't get from this conversation, Dustin likes people. He cares about people and whether or not you do business with them or not, like he does want to help you. And you go on there, you're gonna learn a lot just by that demo. And if anything, you connect with a cool dude. So there you go, Dustin. Hey, listen, Dustin.

Yeah.

Awesome to have you on this podcast. I knew this was going to be a fun and great conversation and guess what? It was. Uh, but hopefully you, the leader, uh, had a lot of value out of this conversation. I took a ton of value in talking to Dustin. Appreciate you being a listener. Wish you all the best in your success. Thanks. Hey there, agent leader. Brent Kelly here. Want to take just a few seconds to remind you that now is the time to create your true best version possible agency. If you go to Sitkins.com/bookacall, Sitkins.com/bookacall, we'll get to know more about your agency, conduct an agency assessment, and provide your agency with a customized plan to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, frustrations, challenges, and roadblocks to get your agency to true ultimate freedom and become its best version possible. It all starts by going to roger.sitkins.com/bookacall.