Grit, Growth & Gumption with Tinsley English

We're bringing some serious energy and enthusiasm. On today's Agent Leader podcast, I interviewed Tinsley English, who is a leadership expert, author and speaker in the world of insurance, who's going to share so many takeaways on self leadership and having difficult conversations and just knowing thyself to lead others with excellence. All agency leaders, all people that are involved in influence, which by the way, that should be everyone. You need to tune in, take some notes on this podcast. Enjoy. Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. This is the podcast for agency leaders to learn, to grow, to develop and ultimately become best version possible leaders leading their best version possible insurance agencies. My name is Brent Kelly. I'm your host. It is a pleasure to be with you and I am so excited. Today I have a very special guest. We have a guest who is an expert in the area of leadership. I can tell you from before we hit record, she's going to bring energy, enthusiasm, we're going to have some laughter and I guarantee you you're going to learn so many things. On today's episode, I have tens Tensley English. I'll get the name right. Who is a speaker. She is an author who wrote the book Grit, Growth and Gumption for women. Subtitle 3 Keys to Lead yourself and others with confidence. So I can't wait to learn more about the book, what's in the book, what you all can learn from the book. So first and foremost, Hensley, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Brent. I'm so excited to be with you and your audience today.

Yeah, we're going to have a fun conversation and I just, I'm, you know, I'm so excited to bring your perspective, your unique perspective. I've been following you through social media. We've kind of had some back and forth and now we finally get to connect and get to use this podcast platform as a way to have some really good conversation, Share it, share it with other people. So if you would, first and foremost, I mentioned, you know, you're a, you're a catalyst for leadership. In fact, I was mentioning before we started recording, your LinkedIn profile has leadership illuminator. Ooh, I love that. So just if you would tell me about what you do and what you're trying to do and your book and I mean, just throw it all out there, tell the audience what you're all about, what you're trying to accomplish in the space, in the world and in leadership.

Sure. So I guess, Brent, the best way to start is just a little bit of background on me. I actually chose Insurance as a profession. My mother put a lot of pressure on me towards my junior year of college to go ahead and decide a major. Her only requirement was that I had a job the day I graduated. I had an international business dreams. I was going to go to France. I was going to be, you know, a wonderful international business person. And towards the middle of my junior year, I really had not figured out what I wanted to do in that international business space. And there was added pressure. And at uga, where I was, where I was going to school, they asked us to take a business elective. You can either take real estate or insurance. And I was weighing my options. I chose insurance because I'd worked for my uncle, who was an attorney in high school. And there was contracts, there was a lot of legality to it. I thought I might want to go to law school at some point. So I chose Risk Management and Insurance. And I called my mom so excited, you know, mom, I'm changing my major. I finally figured out what I want to do. And she said, okay, great, like, sigh of relief. What are you going to do? And I said, risk management and insurance. And she was like, tinsley, that is going to be so boring. You cannot do that. And I'm like, well, caveat, 95% of the kids that are graduating with this degree have a job or an internship the day they graduate. And she was like, okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. And I did. I got a great internship in San Francisco and then went on. I definitely had a job before I graduated. So kudos to those risk management professors for putting that hard sell. And it's been such a great career since 2000. I've loved it. And that's what's kept me in it. The people, the possibilities, the opportunities. Whether you're on the independent agent side or the large brokerage side or the carrier side claim side. There's just so many opportunities. So that is kind of how I came to be an insurance. And I, and I like to say, like my friend Tina and I always talk about, we were always like the sparkly ones of our group. We like to bring the fun and the personality to the insurance world. So that is a little bit about me and my background.

Yeah, I love it. Like I said, there's no doubt. There's like, what do you say? There's a sparkle there around that. It's fun. I just loved your energy you bring. And of course, you've got vast experience in the space. And I will say this, whether it's people I know that are part of our network and our relationships or people are interviewing this podcast. You're probably the 1% that actually went into the insurance field on purpose, right? Most people are like, I stumbled into it or got roped into it, and I couldn't leave. So you came in and you're like, hey, I want a job. I'm gonna do this, and this is where I'm going. So I love that. Well, I mentioned, you know, that you're a speaker and you're an author, and like I said, you're out. You're a leadership illuminator. So I'd love if you could share with the audience again, maybe more about the book or some of the things that you speak about to your audiences and. And why are you so passionate about it? I just want to get just that. That feeling of what fires you up to have these conversations, to write this book, to speak in front of audiences, to share your knowledge, information in this area.

Brent, I think the most important thing that you need to know, especially, and I see this on the agency space all the time. And it was where I was in 2014. I was, quote, unquote, promoted without an instruction manual. So, as you know, so many great account managers or customer service representatives, they're individual contributors. They know exactly how to do their jobs and service their clients. But when they grow in their responsibility, their book grows, and they obviously can't service it all by themselves. So they'll inherit a couple of CSRs, they'll inherit a couple of account managers. Train these people, show them. Show them how to do what you do. And showing somebody how to do what you do, that comes with a lot of added responsibility, but not really an official leadership title. And so what I found for myself as a senior account manager is I was holding on to work, and I was scared to delegate it because I was like these people. I'm not sure if they know how to do what I do or speak to my clients the way I speak to them, or do a proposal the way I know how to do a proposal. And what if they mess this up? What if it makes the agency look bad? Was just a whole host of things that were giving me delegation anxiety. And so I would just withhold work. And then with withholding that work came the resentment I from my team. It also came with added pressure on mine, myself to keep adding these duties. And. And so it was just like kind of like an explosion where I didn't know which end was up and I couldn't give away the work, but I really couldn't keep it myself. So promoted without an instruction manual was my problem. And so when I fast forward, you know, 10 years, a lot of different twists and turn between now and then into operations, I see that there's a lot of other people that feel that way on the daily, and not just in insurance, in any industry, a service industry where you are great at your job, you're given additional responsibility, you're given people in your charge without a leadership title, but you're not given any formal leadership training. So, long story short, this book was kind of an instruction manual to myself 10 years ago.

Yeah, I, you know, it's fun. I heard this phrase a while back that, you know, we're best equipped to serve the person we used to be. And, you know, 100%. I, I just, you know, and you said that. It just hit me. It's like I wrote this book for me 10 years ago and, you know, part of that and, and the thing, of course, in the insurance space and a lot of industries you mentioned, really any service industry, is there's a lot of others that are dealing with the same thing you're dealing with or have dealt with. And so it's very empowering to be able to serve people in that way of, hey, I've been in this space. I'm trying to figure out some stuff that didn't exist right back when I did this. And I, I wrote down to one of my favorite leadership mentors I mentioned on this podcast all the time. He's sort of known for leadership, John Maxwell. And you know, John says leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. And you said this, you know, how often are we in a leadership position, but there's not a leadership title. And I think there, I think there are a lot of people that don't realize they're leaders and their leaders, and then, as you said, they don't know what they're supposed to do. How do I operate? I don't have a manual. So I think it's, first of all, kudos for you for taking that on, for providing something that wasn't there and now it's there. So quick plug, go get her book. You'll learn that. All right, so quick plug for you there. But I just think the other thing that's interesting in your book and the subtitle, and I want to hear your perspective on this, you know, I. Here's my belief. Tell me if you agree, and then I think you will, because it's in the subtitle of Your book. But I believe the hardest person to lead is the person you look in the mirror every day. You know, there's, there's idea of, yes, we want to be able to lead others with excellence and how do we do that, but how do I first lead myself? And when you think about self leadership, what does that mean to you and what have you seen just in working with people, maybe in your own experience?

So you quoted John Maxwell, I'm going to quote Ken Blanchard. He said leadership is not about you, it's about investing in the growth of others. And I play with that a little bit in my book and I say leadership is not just about you, it's about investing in the growth of yourself and others. So I plug, I plug you back in the equation because if you don't learn to lead yourself first, you are not going to have that influence to lead other people. You're not going to know how to lead other people. So I believe in that heavily. I will tell you back. Back in the day when I didn't have the instruction manual, I went out and hired an executive leadership coach. Her name is Sheila, she's just written a book. She's absolutely fantastic. I'm still close with her to this day. And I had her do a 200, 360 degree review on me. And they interviewed my direct reports, they interviewed my producers, they interviewed my husband who's also in the business. And I'm like, Steve, I cook your food, so be careful what you say about me. They interviewed my mentor, she's also my mom. And what it came back kind of the, the, the common theme was Tinsley, they know you care and they know you love them, but you love them too hard and you expect things of them that are a little bit unreasonable. It was, you lack empathy. So they know that I love them, but I'm not loving them in a way that they need to be loved or led. And that was a hard pill for me to swallow. So I like to joke. It's kind of like when you've got something in your teeth and you don't know it's there, but everybody else can see it. I didn't know what I didn't know and it took me hiring somebody to figure that out. But guess what? Not everybody can financially support an executive coach. So case in point, in the book, when I talk about growth, which that was my Achilles heel, I talk about that empathy and I talk about emotional intelligence. And you might not see what everybody else sees, but if you don't ask the question you're not ever going to know and you're going to keep doing the same things over and over again. So that was the, the growth piece that was, that was my biggest challenge as a leader. I always had grit. I grew up with a single mom and she started a business when my sister and I were young. And I saw her have that grit. She could be resilient, she could be adaptable. And then the gumption piece is really about taking strategic risks and betting on yourself. And I would do that. But the growth piece was really when I wrote this book. And I want to develop the system like that is missing in so many people. And to go back to your point about learning to lead yourself, sometimes I tell people, go ahead and start with chapter seven. Like, just turn to chapter seven and start reading because you're going to learn about growth really quickly. And these don't have to be scary terms like resilience and emotional intelligence. You see these on social media, you hear them in and you read about them, but do you really understand what they are? And so I wrote this book at an eighth grade level because I wanted people from whether English is their second language or, you know, whether they, they didn't go to high school, no matter what their education level was. I really wanted this kind of book to break down some complex concepts into simple terms.

Yeah, I, I love all of that. And it, it gives me a thought, question or something. I, I want to learn more from you on this because I don't know if you experience this. One of the, the challenges of working with leaders, in fact, I can use myself as an example in different ways is that we often. And you said that, what was it, food in your teeth? You don't know it, but other people.

You know, or your. Something weird in the back, anything like that.

You know, one of the challenges of that with, with leaders is to be able to be, have some vulnerability. And you said you got that complete 360 feedback. I think everyone could use some form of that because we all have blind spots. But it's, it's interesting to me that a lot of people, and there could be multiple reasons for this, maybe they're just busy or whatever. But I think a lot of it is this fear of what am I actually going to learn about myself that I don't like? Or what am I actually going to learn about myself that other people don't like? And to be open with that and to be coachable to say, you know what? Because we all have that. And I'm just, you know, curious from, from your viewpoint, why do you think leaders resist getting that feedback about themselves? Do you see sticking points? Do you see friction points? Do you see areas of, you know, I don't know, I'd love to get your feedback because it's such a critical area and the fact that you did it and you learn about yourself and now you can talk to other people. Why do other leaders struggle with that?

I think a lot of it stems from we're all trying our best. We're all trying our hardest. I think everybody goes into their job or goes into their career wanting the best for the people around them and they want to do their best. But, but it's that area that you don't know about yourself and it's admitting, admitting that you're not going to be perfect and that's okay. So I really do think it's, it's, it's that fear. And I liken a lot to when you're growing up and you're going through your adolescence, you have those growing pains at night or your legs are aching and you're like, oh, my mom would always say you're going through growing pains and it's a painful time. But then you emerge out of, you know, that awkward seventh grade phase and you, you're a little, maybe you've had your braces off, you feel a little more confident. Growth is scary. It's a scary place. It's hard to admit things about yourself or to try to recognize things about yourself. But that is where we need to double down on people that we're putting in leadership positions or anybody and say, hey, this is going to be scary. We might be talking about something that you're not 100% comfortable with yet, but let's lean into that and we're all going to support each other. So that superpower of vulnerability, it's really key if you want somebody to lead authentically.

That, yeah, the word vulnerability obviously is critical. And you know, I, I, I'm guessing I know from some of your comments already in your book. You like quotes. I like quotes. One of my favorite quotes is from Jim Rohn, late, great Jim Ron. He said for things to change, you have to change in his Joe Maron voice. And I think, you know, from a leadership perspective, it's interesting. And you know, you know this in the insurance agency space, obviously based on your story as well, that oftentimes, you know, we have people that either sell insurance or part of insurance. The next thing we know, they're pretty successful. So now they're leading people like, well, how did that happen? And like you said, there's no training manual on that. And one of the things that you said with vulnerability is critical is the fact that it's okay to express to people that you don't know everything. It's okay to express to people that you screwed up and made a mistake. And I don't know if you. I think you will, but I don't want to assume anything in this conversation. That's not fair. It's why we're having a conversation. But at least from my perspective, what I see in leadership, those that are unwilling to admit things that other people know they're not very authentic and trustworthy leaders. Meaning the fact that kind of know the reality situation and you're pretending it doesn't exist versus saying, for example, hey, Tinsley, in this area, I think I might have let you down or I didn't do the things I should have been doing. And I'm working on it and I want us, you know, that idea of building confidence with that. So does that resonate with you? Do you see that from successful leaders of maybe share an example or you've learned of how leaders who have been able to be vulnerable have had more impact or influence other people?

I think one of the examples is my own team. I encourage them to tell me when I'm not acting as my best self or my best leader. And I've got a couple that they, they take that to heart and they will call me out from time to time. So it is establishing that trust for your team and saying, look, I'm not perfect, you're not perfect, we're all not perfect, but we're going to get better together. And it is okay for you to, you know, call me out or whatever you want to say, because at the end of the day, it's going to make me a more supportive leader for you. So I think it's just letting your team know that you not only want them to call you out, but you. You encourage them to highlight when maybe you could have done something differently and say regularly, like, how can I support you? How could I have handled this differently? That takes actually learning about your team and how each one of them responds to you, to how they want to be led. So it's intentionally getting to know the types of personalities on your team. I'm a big proponent of whether it's Enneagram or Insights or any of those kind of tests. Like I have a growth and gumption assessment in my book, which really kind of gauges your levels, but any other personality test, I encourage everybody to do that with their team. So, you know, like, is this person more of a guardian or is this person more of a pioneer? Because if you figure those kind of things out, you can plug them in in different situations, on projects or even just communication style, you learn how they prefer or they respond best to, to feedback, to encouragement, to incentives, anything like that.

So the growth and gumption assessments in the book, is there anywhere else they can find it or get it?

Yes, on my website, you can enter your information and there is an assessment and a 21 day kind of thoughtful prompts to help you think about things that will help you lean into resilience and that emotional intelligence and the vulnerability.

We'll make sure we get the link there on our show notes, so people can go, go check and do that. That would be great. And it's funny, as you said that, Tinsley, it just reminded me. And, you know, I've done a number of assessments or tests over the years and different ways. I think you always learn something from it. But one of those that I done, I've done, our team has done is the Colby. And again, I don't. There's a lot of great ones out there, but, you know, it's. Are you a quick start, fact finder, follow through implementer, and kind of rate you? And it's always interesting in one aspect. You learn a lot about yourself. I'm a nine, quick start. So I've learned, like, with my team, and sometimes I'm like, oops, quick starts off and going again, sorry about that. Right. Like, call me on it because I'll just like, in my idea, like, if I, if I could be thinking about an idea, and I think that my team already not only knows the idea, but has it done it, versus the fact of I might need to express this better. So it just, you know, affects how you communicate. And, and, you know, the other part of that, too, is again, knowing yourself, but then of course, knowing your team. And I know I've had situations where maybe prior to an assessment, I'm like, this person's crazy, or they don't understand things, and all of a sudden you get to know how they think or how they communicate. You're like, no, they're not crazy. They just are different than me and they think different than me and they communicate different than me. And now that I know that, I have a much better understanding, right. Of where they're coming from. So I think that's really cool that you shared that hey there agent leader Brent Kelly here want to take just a few seconds to remind you that now is the time to create your true best version possible agency. If you go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we'll get to know more about your agency, conduct an agency assessment and provide your agency with a customized plan to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, frustrations, challenges and roadblocks to get your agency to true ultimate freedom and become its best version possible. It all starts by going to sitkins.com bookacall I'd like to learn more about, you know, you, you know, you've had the opportunity to, you know obviously in your own experiences and now speaking and your book like what's a, what's a success? I believe that, you know, replicating success is important. What's a success whether it's in leadership or any other area that you've seen been part of that either you're most proud of, you want to brag about. But here's the biggest thing other people listening can learn from. What are some things that jump out in your experiences of again leaders, success of any kind?

Well, number I guess two things I'm most proud of is my 16 year old daughter and showing her that you can pioneer, you can color outside the lines, you can do things you've never done before. I think one of the biggest lessons for me writing the book is done is better than perfect. And with the book that was one of those things that I could have taken two, three years to write this book. I actually wrote it in 60 days which was like a night and weekend thing. But it really did pour out of me and I really did get a calling to share this. So I think done is better than perfect. Leading yourself first. And then that power of empathy and then what I really wish I had known early on is build that powerful network of support, whether that is a mentor. I think that we see people being over mentored and under sponsored. So find a sponsor that is going to say your name in rooms that you're not in. That is really important, especially for women and the insurance industry is great for that. And we have such a great way to network and connect with each other. I mean in any given day, in any given city in the United States there is some type of networking event. And you know, back in my day when I was coming up it was all about like happy hours and that sort of thing. But you see people getting a lot more creative with coffee chats or pickleball So I really do love seeing people steer away from, like, let's just go sit in a, in a pub or something like that and like, let's do something active or do something like a leadership challenge where we get to see people for who they are. So that was a really kind of long winded answer to your question, but just some tidbits about what I've picked up now.

Those are fantastic. And I want to go back to. There was a couple of things you said that, that were great. It was great. The second part I want to get into, but I want to highlight. You said, done is better than perfect. That's a writer downer. I love writer downers because it's true. And I had a mentor of mine and I want to get to the mentorship sponsorship thing because that fascinates me. But a mentor of mine who said this, he said, brent, you can't improve a result until you go get one. And that always resonated with me. Which reminds me of what you just said, is that so often people are waiting for the perfect moment or for the thing to be perfect. And this idea that done is better than perfect is get it done, put it out there, learn from it, improve upon it. Right? Good and bad. Take the next step. Take the next step. Take the next step. We were talking, by the way, before we hit record of the fact about, you know, we all make mistakes. Like, well, the only way you make mistakes is if you're trying new stuff. And, and that's an idea of done is better than perfect. But I, I want to, I want to dive deeper with you on the other part. Make sure I said this right. So correct me if it's okay. We're over mentored and under sponsored. Did I, did I get that right? Tell me about that. I won't take me deeper there, Tendsley. I want to hear more about this.

And I would, I want to be. Full disclaimer. I did not say done is better than perfect. I don't know who said it, but I thought it was brilliant. And then over mentored and under sponsored is something I read recently and just thought it was really brilliant because they were talking about female advancement in your careers and how women are always sought to seek a mentor to show them the ropes, whether it's in their industry or in their, you know, within their company, outside their company. Show me what you did to get to where you are. Yeah, but on the flip side of that is that sponsor. So that's the person, whether it's on the golf course, or whether it's, you know, in a, in a boardroom, you're not in that room. There's somebody in that room that knows about you and all the wonderful things that you can do and all your abilities and potential and they are being your advocate. So what that looks like for Brent is, you know, Brent's a new producer and there's another producer who goes to an industry event and he's talking to potential, you know, prospects or clients. And he is like, well, this guy Brent knows everything there is to know about whatever it is, cyber insurance or business interruption. And he's saying your name and he's putting your name out there. You're not there, but you are there. And like those are the types of conversations that convert to new clients, whether, or convert to a job opportunity, a career changing job opportunity. So when I talk to young women, I say a mentor is invaluable. And you can have several types of mentors. But find yourself a sponsor to find yourself, whether it's male or female, somebody that has got your back, somebody that is going to be putting your name in the hat for those prime opportunities.

Love it. By the way, you said earlier, while this person said it and this person, I, I have to share this 10. This was one of my favorite things I was at, I mentioned John Maxwell earlier. I was at a workshop with him several years ago and people, someone said, John, you have so many great quotes and lines. And he goes, well, none of them are mine necessarily because it all comes from something else. And he goes, here's what I've learned to do. And I love this. This is just kind of fun to share. He said, you know, the first couple times I would say something, I would say, you know, well, tens of English said blank, blank, blank. Because after about 10 times I say, it's been said that this and this. Because once you get past 10, 15 times, you just say, I say, then you just own it.

So, or I like to say, yeah, if you take something and you that or, you know, you can add your own flavor to it.

That's right. It's right. It's always fun to do that. So no, and I, and I, I want to compliment you and thank you for that sponsorship thought and the idea and certainly what you do in leadership, but certainly in female leadership. And you know, we all know, especially the insurance industry, it's still heavily male dominated, we need more great female leaders and professional professionals. I think it's such a great industry. I always say this kind of on the side of so we, with, with producers in particular, we have leaders and producers and account managers. But the female producers are like kind of rock stars. There should be more of them. There should be. I don't, I don't. And again, I don't want to just say it's just male, female, but like, we've got something like, man, they're so good. Why don't, why aren't there more in this program, in this class? What? And personally, you said, I have five kids, I have four daughters, one who's in college. Like, so I have a passion for, like, hey, how do I help my daughters? Right. I mean, do things that, you know, sometimes. Oh, well, that's not really for me. No, it's go do it. What do you see in talking to the female agency leaders or obviously agencies with people throughout their agency, you know, male, female, whatever. What do you see that maybe from a female leadership perspective they should keep in mind or think about or maybe an area that you can help boost a little confidence sometimes, maybe where it's needed in that space.

Well, I think it goes back to the sponsorship. If, if we have a, a low number of female producers, we need to make sure that the males, males are sponsoring that female producer. And it's hard to do something if you can't see that within your own organization. So one of my best friends is actually an agency owner. She is a producer and she encourages other women and to, to try production. So I think you really have to see something to be something.

Yeah.

For a lot of people. Now there are some, some women that don't have any fear and they're just going to go do it regardless. But a lot of us, a lot of women need to see that, see that example. And for female producers, you still see some of them, they're trying to do it all themselves and, and they're trying to still be, you know, in the weeds with, with the servicing of the account. And that's where that delegation and trust of their team has to be let go and they have to give that work and trust their team so they can get out and do what they do best, which is produce.

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Well, obviously we're, we're a big fan here at Sitkins of that. We talk about high performance teams and knowing your role and then having the same goal but different roles. So I love that and it's so, so true. All right, let me ask you this. Where do you see from your perspective, your viewpoint, leaders struggle the most? And I know this could be a number of things. But if you think back, like, what's an area that I see in my perspective, and maybe people you've talked to regarding the book, or when you're speaking, you're having conversations with people, where do you see some of the common or the top leadership struggles or challenges that people are facing and any suggestion or ideas of how to deal with some of those?

I think that giving constructive criticism is one that people have a hard time with. So I'm asking you to be honest with me as your leader, but I also have to be honest with you as my team member that, you know, maybe something you did wasn't exact. There's a difference between doing it exactly like I like you to do it, and doing it according to the standards or best practices. So I see people letting little infractions or little, like maybe attention to detail or little things add up and, and then all of a sudden it's like this huge issue where we've got a performance issue, and it's like, no, that's not really the way it should be handled if you're a coach. Like, a coach is not going to let you just go fumble the ball all over the field for four quarters without pulling you out and telling you what to do. So don't do that in leadership. Like, it should be a daily coach approach where you're saying, okay, like, you missed this. Let's talk about it. Get the, get that old red pen out and, and say, like, let's go through this because I want you to do it better the next time. So I would say, like, letting little things add up to where it becomes a much bigger issue is not as beneficial as every day saying, hey, I'm going to let you know immediately if we see something going, how it shouldn't go. So that it's a constant conversation of.

Improvement that's so important. Our senior consultant at the Sitkins Group, Carrie Glennon, she's fantastic. She always says feedback is truly a gift. And, you know, if you think about that, you know, this idea that if we're not providing feedback, and of course, in a way that, you know, going back to the heart of a coach is, I want to encourage you, but I also want to encourage you by challenging because I know there's more in you. And I always think of whether it's a teacher or a coach or a leader in an organization that maybe has made you uncomfortable time to time, but they do it because they truly love you. Like, and, and you look back and you're like, you know, at the moment. I didn't like that, but I'm so glad they had that conversation.

So this is not my quote, like, we're doing this again. But it was somebody that said, failure is feedback. Feedback is knowledge, and knowledge is power. So I love that one because I'm like, that is exactly how it should be. And I can remember very early on in my career, my desk was just a mess, like, physically a mess. And one day I get to work and throw my purse on the. The desk and, you know, sit down, start firing up my computer. And my leader called me into her cube and was like, tinsley, this is. This is client information. This is important. You know, your desk is reflecting, is a. Is a reflection of you, and it needs to be orderly and nice and clean. And so she was really great about always telling me kind of immediately, like, things that she wanted to see as improvement. So I just got really comfortable. I think the first time she did, I was like, oh, okay. But it wasn't such a big deal. So it's just getting everybody comfortable that we're all trying to get better together.

Yeah, I. It's a such a great example, and I've got to share just one of my own, because, I mean, again, I think it. It certainly helps the audience. You think about feedback. Some people know. Many people know on this podcast, our CEO and founder, Roger Sitkins, also the. On the COVID of the book. We're co authors of the book. We do a program. I mean, we run programs every week, multiple programs. We debrief every single session, and I get feedback every single session. And it's just part of the norms. Like, some people are like, well, do you get, like, tired of always getting feedback? I'm like, no, it really is a gift. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I didn't know I did that, or I didn't know that happened, or I didn't see it that way.

Right.

And all of a sudden, the next time you Slide improvement. Slight improvement. Slide improvement. And one of our favorite quotes that we share in our programs tends to go back to what you said about, you know, if we let things build up, is this a problem left unattended will eventually become a crisis. And. And. And I have way too many sports analogies. But you set it up because you said fumble. It's like every day, person mishandles the ball and fumbles and fumbles and fumbles, and we never say anything about it. And then it's like the big game and they fumble at the goal line, and we're like, I can't believe that happened. You're like, right, you know, so it's.

Just, it's a refining process. It's a refining process as you, for you, as the leader or the facilitator, it's a refining process for the actual, you know, whatever you're trying to teach. So it's, it's kind of like you've got to get over yourself and know.

That.

Everything that people are sharing with you, it's just going to make you better.

Yeah. And, and for, you know, for all the agent leaders listening, you know, talk about culture, Culture, culture. It's such a buzzword out there. But like, I'd ask you, is, is your culture set up to where people are always challenging themselves, knowing that mistakes will be made, but they're also going to get feedback to improve upon those, or is it that people are hiding a bunch of stuff? Oh, I don't want them to know that. I don't want. No, like, you know, eventually it will get exposed. And instead of being exposed on a one on one meeting or in role play or in practice, it's exposed in front of your biggest client or biggest opportunity. And that's not where you want that to happen. So I don't know if you agree with that.

And I think, Brent, you, you know as well as I do Covid changed a lot of things, and remote work changes a lot of things. When I was growing up in the agency space, I was in a cube, you know, a cube area where I had women that had been in the industry 30, 40 years sitting right, right next to me, and I could hear their conversations with their underwriters, their clients, whomever. And in all that osmosis, it adds up. But since we have so many remote workers now, if you're leading somebody or you're reporting to somebody or you're on somebody's team, it's up to you to. If you're doing zooms, you've got to have frequent zooms. A zoo shouldn't just be once a week. And people have like, zoom fatigue. But they'll, they'll just cancel a zoom meeting. Like, if you have a meeting with somebody in person, you typically are not going to cancel it. Like, you have to treat your zoom meetings with the same level of respect. Especially if you're leading somebody, like, they need you. And if it's not zoom, it's teams or whatever you use to communication, it's great to just shoot a quick teams message to somebody and say, hey, can we have a five minute conversation? So I want to make a plug for like, remote work can work, but you need to establish for your team early on that we're always going to have open communication, no matter what's going on. If I'm. If I'm really busy right now, I'm going to make time for you later in the day. Because that transfer of knowledge, especially with the wave of retirements that we're facing very soon, people have got to share that knowledge. There's got to be that transfer. And the only way to transfer is time.

It's. Yeah, we see it everywhere. And you're right, there's such a switch with, with COVID and we all know it. But I mean, whether. I mean, some agencies have gone back sorta, but there's still a hybrid and remote. I remember, you know, I'll travel and I work with some of our agencies. And there was a agency, I went and visited one of our members, and I think I got there on a Thursday and I did a little bit of teaching and training. And then Friday I walked around, they had some stuff, and I was like, this is a big office. And I'm like, is it. I was like, wait, is it Saturday? Like, no, it's Friday. But, you know, they get a couple days a week to be hybrid. And most people pick Fridays. And it just, it reinforced the fact, this idea that we're going to transfer knowledge just by kind of being in the same physical proximity doesn't always happen anymore. And now you've got to be much more intentional. And like you said, that five minutes of hey, I want to talk to you about something is much more important than, you know, so many other things that we often do as leaders. So I think that's very, very helpful information. All right, Tinsley, I have one official final question, maybe more that I'll make up. We'll see. All right, but one official question. And I asked this to every guest on the podcast. My favorite question to ask. Okay, and here's the question. And I, I try to make up different scenarios, but here we go. So later today, you're out for a walk.

I don't know.

It's nice. I don't know if it's a nice day there or not, but you're out for a walk.

It's beautiful.

Okay, Beautiful, perfect, perfect time. It's a beautiful day. You want to go out for a walk, and you're out for a walk, and this crazy thing happens where you happen to bump in to the younger version of you, the version of Tinsley, who is beginning to start her career. And although this is kind of not a situation, this happens, okay? And so you bump into the younger version of you, and the younger version of you looks up at you today and says, oh, my gosh, it's my more experienced, wise me down the road. What's the one piece of advice that you could give me right now?

Learn yourself. Like, learn who you are. We talked about this earlier, but I. I really do think, learn who you're. Learn who you are. Know yourself so that you can lead yourself. That is. I give that advice to my daughter all the time, and I see her leaning into herself and knowing who she is and knowing what type of decision maker she is and knowing how she responds to challenges. So I would just say take time to know yourself. Don't try to fit yourself into the mold of the person sitting next to you or who your parents think you should be. Be authentic to yourself.

I love it, love it, love it. I mean, there's no wrong answer to that question for anybody to ask. But I. As you were saying, where I was just thinking about the. How often we do try to shape or mold ourselves into someone else's vision for us, and then sometimes it takes us way too long. You know, we're in our 30s, 40s, 50s, and going, oh, this is really who I always knew I was and should do. And I never really embraced it. So I love that.

And everything that you are is based on your own, you know, natural traits, abilities, experiences. So even if you're trying, even if I'm like, Brent is so awesome, I want to be Brent. Like, I can't ever be Brent because Brent's grown up in a different area. Brent's had different advantages. Brent. Brent has had different disadvantages that I can't see. So you. You can't really be anybody else. You can. You can identify things that somebody else. Qualities that somebody else have that are admirable, but own who you are, trust who you are, and just be who you are.

Yeah. I have to share one more thing on this because I don't know if I'm guessing this might be something you deal with as someone who's learning to grow and develop, you know, and I talk to other leaders in my space or people that, you know, they really hunger for personal professional growth and knowledge. I. I just want to piggyback. One of the things that I struggle with, and I still struggle with to a degree, is that, you know, I read a book or listen to a podcast or just like you said, I have a conversation with you and I go, oh, that's all the stuff I should be doing, or that's the person I need to be more like. And I think we can always learn from a book, a podcast, a video, a discussion, but when you lose yourself, that's the problem. That's what I heard and took from what you said there. And that is so important. So I hope all the agent leaders took notes of what Tinsley said there because that's great piece of advice. All right, my final thing is this. Where can people find you, get in touch with you or anything else that you want to share to the audience before we officially wrap up? Sure.

So I love LinkedIn. I try to share thought leadership on LinkedIn. So like, like my post, engage with me and I'll see you there.

Awesome. Go connect on LinkedIn. Thanks so much Hensley for being on the podcast. I had a ton of fun. I knew I would great ideas and value shared. So appreciate you so much. Thanks for being part of the podcast.

Thanks so much, Brent.

Wait, you're still here? Hey, Agent Leader podcast listeners. Brent Kelly, again, I want to first of all, thank you for listening to the Agent Leader podcast and your continued support. Support. If you would like to have more content come your way, please help us by sharing the podcast, subscribing to the podcast, telling people about the podcast, and if you as an agent leader are truly ready to take that next step in your agency, you're committed and want to be that best version possible agency, don't wait. Go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we want to provide the blueprint for your agency to help you create more impact with less effort. And it all starts by going to s.com bookacall alright, now you can actually go. Thanks.