Pretender or Performer

Foreign welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me for another episode. I have a very special and regular guest with me on today's episode. You've heard him before and he was so good and we had such good feedback that we wanted to continue to bring him on. Roger Sitkins is with me today. Roger, good morning.

Well, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you're listening to this and it's great to be with you again.

Well, thank you. And we're going to dive into a really important topic and I think it's something that as Sitkins coaches and we work with our clients and our producers, we're really starting to see the beginning of this idea that you're either going to be a pretender or a performer. And that's going to be the topic of today. And I'm going to ask some Roger some questions around that and I know we're going to have a great discussion before I get into that and ask Roger some of these questions. Just want to, first of all, as always, talk about the purpose of the Agent Leader podcast. Why do we do this? You know, what's the value to agencies and agency leaders? It's really about three things. It's helping you gain clarity in your agency, it's helping you to build consistency in your agency, and it's really about making a commitment to be your best version possible. Also want to mention too, and I mentioned this on the last couple of podcasts, that our next Virtual Producer Fit session starts on June 2, and depending on when you're listening to this, it could be sold out. We sold the first one out extremely fast and the second one, I just looked before we hit record here, we're at half capacity already and we just announced this earlier in the week. So make sure that if you are a sales manager, agency leader, producer, and you want to be that best version, we have got a virtual producer program. Obviously we're taking the challenges and turn them into opportunities. And so far the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive and very excited about after first couple sessions and doing this, what we're hearing back. So if you want to be part of this opportunity, we don't know how many more we're going to do. So make sure that you go to sitkins.coms I t k I n s sitkins.com profit looks like profit. Profit sitkins.com profit so with that, I want to get into today's podcast and Roger and I had been doing some discussion earlier in the Week. And just in general things and working with our clients and just what's going on in the insurance world. And, you know, I made the statement that, you know, this really is a time and will be a time in looking back of great separation that, you know, you're going to have the haves and the have nots, so to speak. And, you know, I was just mentioning before I hit record on this with Roger, I said, you know, I think back in my lifetime in particular, what I remember in the business world, you know, even the recession of 2008, in those years of just the real estate market and real estate agents and that, you know, a lot of the people kind of disappeared for good reason, the market crashed. And some of those, although they didn't thrive right away, they. They stayed consistent, doing the right things, the right habits. And it actually had began to thrive for many years now. And that's kind of what I'm starting to see now with COVID 19 is that you have an opportunity to either be a pretender, that you've always kind of made it through as an agency or a producer, because, hey, things are okay, things are good. I can kind of do the average stuff and still be okay. And then there's performers, those that understand the deeper work, the consistency, the habits, the way to build relationships, the way to change the dynamic and be a true risk advisor out there. And I think this is why we see the time of great separation. So I want to bring Roger in and just kind of get his thoughts, because I know Roger, we talked earlier this week. You like, yeah, pretender, performer. But that makes a lot of sense. So what do you see, Roger, as the main difference between a pretender and.

A performer, or the main difference or 97 differences. But certainly what's going to happen is that the agencies that quite frankly just floated along, they were doing okay, they were semi successful by all schemes, all views. They live in a nice house, they've got to drive a nice car, their kids are in the right school, they belong to a country club. They give back to their community at a high level and they're doing okay. But financially, they really are not at financial freedom yet. And that's agency owners, that's also producers. And so because you can get caught up in this hysterical activity on the way to the grave things we talk about all the time, you can confuse activity with results. And you can pretend to be pretty, pretty good. And again, compared to everybody else, you are. But I see the pretenders, unfortunately, I'm already hearing this from people the pretenders are going to attempt to go back to the old ways of doing business because they hope things will be okay. You know, you mentioned 2008. Well, things came around again and I just believe that they're hoping things are going to be okay, that we'll get back to the good old days. And God, I hate that term, good old days. But they hope. And as you and I know, and I'm sure the listeners know, hope is not a strategy. So the pretenders are going to go, yeah, we'll wait through it and we'll be okay. And we'll struggle a little bit, but things will come back. The amount of money it's going to cost them in that time frame. I mean, it's their choice to wait. But I'd no longer be sitting around waiting, that's for sure.

Yeah, there's something I think I either wrote about or spoke about. It's been a few years, but I'm sure you've heard it before, Roger. But I said, you know, there's nine words that I cannot stand. And that is, that is the way we have always done it. And it's just, well, that's the way we've always done it. So, you know, why would we change? And you know, let's, let's face it, we've talked about it before. Change is hard. Right? There's no doubt that the difference today is that, you know, change for many of us, most of us right now, has been non optional. And I think, Roger, what I'm hearing you say is that the idea is okay, I know that change is not optional, but if I can just wait this out, I don't have to change a thing and eventually everything will come back to what it was before. And you know, Roger, I don't know what you think. I'll ask you here in a second, but I just don't think there's ever going to be the old normal anyway. So you don't really have a choice. But is that the way you see it as far as, again, the people just kind of waiting for things to come back? I mean, how do you see some of the new things that are going to be in the new landscape after we get through some of the current, you know, I guess urgency, the initial urgency of COVID 19. What's some of the new normal things that you see?

Well, first of all, you mentioned, you know, the nine words. That's the way we've always done it. I used when I would do one on one consulting with agencies and I would Ask people why they do certain things they do. And it would always be, well, that's just the way we've always done it. And there's no rhyme or reason. It just kind of evolved into a sporadic process at best. And. And so when you look at what's coming out of this, first of all, the best agencies, the performers, are going to take the tremendous number of great lessons we should all be learning, and they're going to move them forward. See, we're going to come out of this. This is going to pass. There's no question. I don't know when. I wish I had that crystal ball, but I do know we're going to come out of this. So what lessons? And this is where the performers are going. So what lessons have we learned? We're going to take forward and be the new normal for our agency as an individual, the new normal for me. And some of the things I'm hearing, and I think we talked about this recently too, but some of the things we're hearing are, I've never had such deep conversations, so many deep conversations with my clients. I'm calling my future ideal clients, and they're really willing to talk about things because their own agent hasn't even called them yet. So as we move forward, we've just got to say what's really working well. Remote employees, not having everybody at the office every day for so many people, that's working really well. Now, I'll also say that a lot of people are saying, I want to get back to the office and away from the craziness at home. Well, there's probably a balance there. But overall, just saying that, okay, people could work from home. What did we learn in that? Well, so many people are learning. You know, we need to communicate with our team at a deeper level. We need to communicate more often. Probably everybody's heard of the concept of having the. The Monday morning huddle or the everyday have a huddle. And yet what I'm seeing is that agencies are doing that now, but will they take it forward because I'm here and say, God, we're communicating so much better. Well, part of it is because a lot of the communication is a scheduled meeting, and there's really a topic that being held rather than an interruption to bug somebody. Those are some of the key things that are jumping out at me. I'd say another big one is to just really take a look at the economics of the agency. You, as an individual producer, take a hard look at your ME Inc. How's your profit loss Statement going, I was listening the other day. I was part of a video conference with David Bock, the author that most people know. I absolutely love his stuff. Smart women finish rich. Smart couples finish rich. Start late, finish rich, and his latest book, the Latte Factor. And he was reviewing some of the core lessons he's learned in all of this. And by the way, he was on what he calls a radical sabbatical. He took his family to live in Florence, Italy, for a year and four months after he got there, you know what happened. So there's been a lot of lessons, but one of the things coming out of this is just managing your finances. You know, in the Latte Factor, there's a great, great statement. If you don't know where you're going, you may not like where you end up. So as an individual producer, are you with your family? Are you running it, like, business? Are you doing a P and L on a balance sheet every month for agencies themselves? I want everybody to write this down. If you're not driving, it's time to right size. Are you ready to right size your agency? Are you willing to look at your productivity, looking at your revenue per employee, more importantly, spread per employee, and saying, you know what? Maybe we've been overstaffed all these years. And I love it when they say, well, we're overstaffed, but we're overstaffed for growth. No, you're not. You're overstaffed. It's pretty simple. So those are some key things that jump out of my mind.

That's fantastic, Roger. I mean, just so many. So many lessons. I was taking a number of notes and just to give some feedback and some personal examples for things that you just shared. You know, really what you big part of what you were just talking about was just awareness and learning from the current situation. As I said earlier, you know, most people didn't choose to say, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna start working remote, or we're gonna start having these. These zoom huddles in the morning. Right? Whatever it is. But as you said, they started to do it and go, geez, why are we doing this more often? Why haven't we been doing this? And one of my coaching clients, Roger, part of the Sitkins Network, we were talking last week on a coaching call, and he said, yeah, these morning huddles have been great. He goes, sometimes they're really, really short. He goes, but what I've learned, which is he's like, duh, is the fact that Even if they're five or 10 minutes in some cases, which they are, some go longer. He said, but even if they're short, if there's a problem or an issue or that, you know, if someone wants to get off their chest, they do right then and we can address it and take care of it versus you know, as you always say Roger, never be mad alone. And, and, and you know, people are mad and whatever and stewing and then gossip occurs in the office and all those kind of things. And I said, so what are you going to do when everyone gets back to the office? He's like, well, I guess I should probably keep having morning huddles. And you know, it's just that level of awareness. And the other thing Roger, that you shared and I don't know, I'm admittedly use sports analogies, but there's a really great docu series I'm sure many of you actually are watching. It's very popular, the Last Dance, which kind of goes through the 98 Chicago Bulls and really a deep dive into Michael Jordan. And it's just really interesting, you know, just watching great athletes, great anything right of any of any endeavor, business, music, sports and just their mindset. And you know, it was interesting to me early on his career when Michael Jordan was individually performing very, very well, they kept losing the Detroit Pistons, which Roger being a Michigan guy, that probably made you happy, right?

Sure did.

But what was funny is they just beat the crap out of him and you know, and Michael Jordan's like, well, I could just take it and I'll still be great, I'll still be rich. I mean, still get endorsements. I'm Michael Jordan. But he realized for the Bulls to win a championship, he had to show that toughness. And he got on weights and g, you know, did all those kind of things to go above and beyond. And I just think about right now, I know this may be a weird analogy, but it is like building muscle. Like you go out and you build muscle, you go lift weights today, only thing you notice later today is that your muscles are tired. And that's kind of what I see right now. For all the producers and agency leaders, they're going to put in time and effort right now. You may just feel tired, but guess what happens? That muscle grows. And I don't know how long it's going to take, but I think the pretenders are going, eh, it'll be fine. And guess what? When things come back to whatever new level normal there is, there's one group that's gonna be stronger and mentally tougher. And one group that's gonna be in many cases, worse than they were before it started. And that's why I think there's such a great time of separation. So, Roger, with that, now that I did my little soapbox rant, um, we talked about pretenders and performers. If right now, if. If someone's listening to this and they go, you know, I gotta be honest, right? I'm in my car or at home and no one's around me. If I had to really look in the mirror, I'm probably more of a pretender than a performer. Or maybe I'm just a half performer, you know, not where they want to be. Can a pretender, at whatever level, can they become a performer?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

How do they do that?

Well, they've got. First of all, they've got to want it. And not just saying, well, I'd like to be a performer. No, you know, people, we all talk about the difference between pain and pleasure. We'll do almost anything in the world to avoid pain and gain pleasure. And yet, when you look at this, people right now are going through a lot of pain in their life. Let's just take it to the business level. The performers are figuring out very quickly that assumed to be performers are figuring out that there were a lot of problems that quite frankly been masked. Whether it's with a producer having, quite frankly, an empty pipeline or an agency being overstaffed and under revenue overexpensed. And they just left them alone because they could still be okay. Like we've said 100 times. One of my favorite sayings in the world of the hundreds that I have is that a problem left unattended becomes a crisis. A problem left unattended becomes a crisis. And one of the biggest things I'm seeing right now is the pretenders are all of a sudden saying, oh, my gosh, my pipelines are terrible. I've got nothing going on. And yet, when I look at the highest performing agencies we work with and the best producers, not a surprise, they're still selling a lot of business. They're still growing. Why? Because their pipelines were absolutely full. This is a great time to be reaching out to people. Now, you're not going to get necessarily appointments, but are you reaching out and talking to your future ideal clients? Are you talking to your centers of influencers? Are you having deep discussions with them? Those are the focus points that the pretenders are going to have to jump all over. And that's how they're going to become performers. They're going to look back and say, okay, what really would work if I would do what I know I need to do? You know, there's something we talked about recently. This was one of my blinding flashes of the obvious. And it happened at our last networking meeting where I shared with everybody that, you know, the topic, of course, was accountability, the importance of a culture and cadence of accountability. And I said, if everybody in your agency did everything they said they were going to do, how great would your agency be? Well, it's the same for the producers listening. If you would take this time to do everything you said you were going to do someday and actually do it, you'd become a performer pretty darn quickly. If you're sitting there with the yeah, buts and I'm too busy, they're just not going to make it happen. I think the other big lesson here for the pretenders, because they're not at the office, they're realizing that when they were at the office, they were hiding behind activities. They were looking busy. They always had something to do. They could easily fall into the service trap, or they could just go around and BS with everybody. Now that you're home, you're probably getting a better feel for the fact that real productive hours you had when you were going to the office are pretty darn low. So just one of the lessons you're taking forward, the other one is take a look around you. What are the best perform in any business? What are they doing now? Where are they Jumping on something that I was sharing at a coaching call with one of our members a few days ago, and we were talking about, right, sizing the agency. Are you overstaffed or do you have some people that are total underperformers and when they come out of this, they'll be an underperformer again? And we were talking again about the need to right size. And I said, look, I don't know what's going to happen, but here's what I do know. I've already heard of four, maybe five national brokers who have announced major expense reductions, major hiring freezes, major reduction in everything they're doing. The executives taking reductions in pay. What I said to our client was our member. I said, you know those big national brokers, those companies with a billion, 2 billion, 3 billion, 4 billion of revenue? They probably have more and I'll just call it economic intelligence than we do. They probably got people out there looking at the long term on this at a much deeper level than any of us. Well, of course, most of them are publicly traded, so they've got a concern on stock value, but if they're making major cuts and they're getting focused on the most important issues, I think we all better take a hard look at that. I think it's real. I think it's real. And then one more I'll add, you know, a big lesson. Some people are finally, those that have doubted it are finally saying, you know what? I think that 8020 is real. And the bottom 50% of your customers as an agency are going to be less than 10% of your revenue. But are you going to just keep pretending that someday you'll round them out? Are you going to pretend that someday they're going to grow, or will you get focused on the vital few and find ways to replicate them? So that's the end of my story.

I love it. I as you, there's different, different thoughts as you were talking there, Roger. But the one thing, the overwhelming thing that I had in my mind when you're thinking about pretender and performer was that, you know, pretenders in many cases have been and will be exposed. And you know, the, the analogy is, you know, you got someone standing there trying to cover themselves, you know, naked, like, oh my gosh, people see the real me now. And performers are, you know, they're still, they're still going to thrive and do okay. And you know, obviously one of our, our best age that we work with going back to even like just pipeline is one example, it's just, just an easy example to see is because they were proactive and intentional with developing a future ideal client pipeline and, and diving deeper. Well, guess what? When this all broke loose, they still had people that would pick up the phone and have deeper conversations because they had established some of that relationship before it was too late. Right? And there's no doubt that if you had an empty pipeline and you suddenly and, and, and COVID 19 breaks loose and people are naturally fearful and anxious and they're trying to figure out what do about their clients and their employees, and you pick up and say, hey, would you like to get a quote? You know, good luck. First of all, it's a stupid way to present yourself, but secondly, you're starting from, you know, from scratch and versus saying, you know what, we've been prepared and people are willing to listen. Maybe we're not their current agent today, but we've been laying the foundation in the right way that they're open to picking up the phone and saying, you know what? Like you said, Roger, my current agent hasn't even called me so it's just again, it's just this idea of are you exposed? And that's the idea of a pretender versus a performer. All right, So I want you to get your crystal ball out. Roger, you ready?

Sure.

Because by the way, if you know this, if you know this, you can, you can just go make millions and millions and millions right at this point. But I do want to, joking aside, it's just kind of think ahead. And none of us know, you know, what the exact new normal is going to look like, will look like when that's actually going to happen. But we all know at some point the world's going to come back to whatever level that new normal is. So let's just look ahead. And I don't know if it's 6 months, 12 months. I hope it's shorter than longer, but 18 months, 2 years. What. What's going to happen to pretenders in the next couple years? Let's just say looking out and what's going to. What's it going to look like for the performers?

Wow, it's scary. It's pretty scary, I think because the pretenders that have been floating along for a long, long time and again doing okay, semi successful, it's a great business. You don't have to do anything we talk about and you'll still do okay. Well, that was in the past. That's going to change dramatically when you look at the. What's going to be happening over the next year with the work comp audits, the reductions in sales and the audits there, the liability premiums. Agencies are going to be hurting with all the returns are going to happen. Now I've heard a couple of people say, yeah, but it's probably be a hard market. You know what it could be? It could be. So what will that net out? I think the pretenders are going to have a really hard time even coming close on revenue this coming year versus what they did in the last 12 months. There's no doubt it's going to go backwards now. How much I don't know. I hope it's just a little bit. I hope that they can still get out there and do some good things. The other one with the pretenders and when they're going to come out of it, it's based on their pipelines. As you know, we ran one of our virtual producer fit programs this week, one of the 12 lessons and some of the things we heard in the virtual roundtables we do, which is phenomenal experience that the best ones are in pretty Good shape because they're looking forward and they've got a pipeline that's overflowing with more opportunities in. They have more referrals than they can follow up on. But the people that admitted they're struggling and their pipeline is not very full now, and I said, what do you think it's going to look like at the end of the third quarter and the fourth quarter, and what is your pipeline going to look like beginning of next year? Well, if you haven't done the right things, you're in trouble. If you're. If you haven't implemented the core things we talk about, like, do you know your five points of differentiation? What are you going to be able to tell people how you're different moving forward? It sure can't be the generic five, which you've mentioned several times. So the pretenders are. They're going to coast along and just wonder what happened to them and maybe they'll do okay. The performers and those that are committing to be performers, I believe they're going to thrive and not just survive. I believe they're going to thrive because they're going to do the things others aren't willing to do. They're going to bring to the marketplace what others aren't willing to do. As you know, one of my favorite authors is Joe Calloway, and in his book Becoming the Category of One, he said in there that how do you totally differentiate? Become the category of one in your marketplace, whereby you transcend commoditization and defy comparison. It's no longer just about price, it's what you bring that makes you different. Okay? And the differentiation is such that you defy comparison. As a matter of fact, you're the one others look at. You become the point of comparison in your marketplace. That's the one, as you've mentioned in the past, where people look at and go, God, what happened to that agency? Look how great they're doing. Look at the growth. How come they're doing so well when rest of us are struggling? Well, a big, big part of it is it's an old concept that I've heard people say a million times, well, are you going to work on your business or in your business? Well, pretenders are going to be panicking, working inside and trying to make things work where the performers have already done the groundwork or improving the groundwork, the foundation, so that they're going to be working on it and make it grow really well. Great. No. Is it going to grow 6, 7, 8, 9, 10% next year? Most Won't. Some will, because they're doing the right things now.

All right, Roger, I have one final question for you. And I love asking this question to you because you always ask it to me after almost every conversation that we have. So now I have you as a guest. I always get to ask you. So we've talked about pretenders and performers. What's the one thing, right, that you see? Performers, what they do consistently? What's the one thing that jumps out, say, when I think of a performer, this is the one thing that they are always doing.

I'm gonna give you two things that's.

Cheating, Roger, but I want you. I'll give you a pass.

I'll tell you why we talk about clarity, consistency, and commitment. And what's hit me the other day is the craziness that's happening in the marketplace today demands clarity. And if you can write this down, please do. Craziness demands clarity. So then I'll give you my answer to the one thing. And up until 9:00' clock this morning, it would have been a different answer. My back's a little sore and I'm planning on playing golf this afternoon. So I said, why don't I go to my chiropractor? And I got there, he opens at 9 o', clock. And I was there a few minutes before nine and was the first one in. And he checked in. He did the adjustment and everything. And I got in the car and right away I thought, I really feel better already. And I had the blinding flash of the obvious. Small adjustments make the big difference. Small adjustments make the big difference. So what I truly feel, and I know it in my gut, is the performers realize they've got to make the small adjustments on a continual basis. You know, we've heard the term, can I. Continual and never ending improvement. Look for those small adjustments that long term will have the biggest impact. And our concept of going deep, don't go shallow and chase a thousand things, just find one, two or three things, make small adjustments in them. Long term, it's going to be a huge payoff.

Wonderful. I do want to add a thought, as you were saying that Roger, and I love that analogy with the chiropractor. But as you know, and I've mentioned at the beginning of this podcast and every episode and stuff that we teach and train around at Sidkins, you know, I. This is a few years ago that I was sitting with you, Roger, and I think we were in. In Georgia, and I kept asking questions. As you know, I like to ask a lot of Questions and think and just find patterns because I think it's just, it's very interesting to say, what do performers do? And as I was sitting there and we were having conversations and you were sharing stories of, you know, producers, 1, 2, 3, 4 million dollar producers and these agencies that are taking these, these huge steps and been very successful and profitability and all this thing, I go, you know, what I'm starting to get as a pattern is that they're very clear on who they are and where they're going. They're very consistent on just a few basic things and they're committed to someone or something. You know, they've got accountability built in up and down the agency. And that was the clarity, consistency and commitment came from. And then as you were saying that, I go, what's the one thing? And it kind of hit me as you were just saying that, I said, you know, the one thing that performers do, they think and act like a professional. And, and that's all part, of course, you know, professional fitness experience that we talk about at Sitkins. But even going back to Michael Jordan, it just, I don't know how many times it just struck me, as you were saying that he kept saying on this docu series, I'm just working on my craft. I've got to be focused on my craft. I'm working on my craft. He's a professional. And you know, I think a lot of people, depending on where you're at right now, again, whether you're an agency leader, principal producer, sales manager, are you thinking and acting like a true professional? And I think if we're honest with ourselves ago, you know, maybe not as much as I should be. So that's my one thing. I had to, I had to answer my own question. Roger, sorry to pontificate any, any final closing thoughts from you before I wrap this one up?

Yes, performers are going to continue to invest in their people. Just like we just said, the best agencies moving forward are going to have fewer people and those fewer people are going to be doing a lot more. And I don't care what function it is in the agency, but as they right size and get to the right number of people, get their revenue per employee and spread per employee where it needs to be, it's fewer people doing more because, and maybe use your analogy, we're turning amateurs into professionals. Not a dabbling amateur, but a committed professional. And I think that's going to be crude and I don't think, I know it's crucial moving forward.

Well, thank you again, Roger. For your time and wisdom on this podcast. Again, I truly, I learned so much and just having conversations and get me to think differently. I know the audience feels the same. So thanks again for being on.

My pleasure. Thank you.

Well, just a quick wrap up on Agent Leader podcast. First of all, thanks again for being a listener. If this episode, other episodes have provided value to you and your agency, I'd love for you to give us a review wherever you're listening on whether it's Apple or Stitcher radio, whatever it may be, it helps us spread the message. And secondly, as I mentioned on the start of this podcast episode, our next Virtual Producer Fit program will sell out. We know it's going to sell out. It's already half full right now. Our first one did sell out. And if you really want to be that committed professional that Roger just talked about, I mean, that's really what we take producers through. And this virtual session, although we do miss, you know, shaking hands and giving hugs and all that good stuff, the great thing about Virtual Producer Fit is that we give you a key action item, a key point every single week. Allow our attendees to do virtual roundtables, dive deep into one area and continue to use them as building blocks to grow their business and really grow their lives as they move forward. So go to Sitkins. Com profit again. Sitkins.com p r o F I T. We love to see you before it sells out. So thanks again for being a listener. I wish you all the best in your success.