Producer Recruitment Starts at Home

Welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. And before I get into a very special guest that I'm introduced, I always want to introduce the purpose of the Agent Leader podcast, which is to help you and help your agency in whatever specific role you have as an Agent Leader, to help you gain clarity, build consistency and make that commitment to become your best version possible. And when I think about of a commitment to best version possible, one person who I truly admire and has been a great mentor of mine and certainly the namesake for the Sitkins Group, where I'm the vice president, is Roger Sitkins. And guess what? Roger Sitkins happens to be our special guest today. So, Roger, welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. We are glad to have you.

Well, it's a pleasure to be here as always. And I guess people are getting tired of me being a special guest because we put these on a pretty regular basis, but it's just great to share information, share knowledge with the whole industry and give back and we'll give them some great ideas today that they can take back and use.

Absolutely. And it's been a while actually, Roger, you were a pretty regular guest for a while and I let you slip away, but I, I wanted to drag you back in here. Here we are recording this the last couple weeks of 2020 and in fact, the last podcast that I recorded, Roger, that will go out before this one, I said that's probably my last podcast of the year, but this is a bonus surprise. So it's like your holiday treatment to have Roger on with us today. Before I get into the content today, I do want to mention, as I had the last few weeks of our brand new program, our brand new model, which is the Sitkins Network all inclusive model, and we continue to gain traction. And I said before, I mean, this really is an experience. In fact, it's all centered around the professional fitness experience. How can we help you and your agency truly get professional fitness to do the right things, the strategies, the behaviors, have some of the accountability and ultimately just go live that best life, that best version possibly talk about. And so again, if you're interested in learning more about it, if you're ready to hop on board, and I hope you are, just go to sitkins.com ain that's all inclusive models. So sitkins.com aim as I've mentioned before, and I'll say it again, our price point, it's a crazy price point of what we're doing. We want to help as many agencies as possible. But we're only going to have this initial price point which starts at 497amonth for the first 100 agencies that sign up. So don't miss your opportunity. Depending on when you're listening to this, hopefully it's not too late. So get out there, check it out, check it out and be part of this great movement, this great experience that we, we're glad to be part of. So with that, Roger, I want to turn it over to you and get into some of the content. And we were talking this week just about some different things that we love to share with this audience. And you had a great thought, as you often do, you call them BFO is right, Roger.

Yes, the blinding flashes of the obvious.

The blinding flash of the obvious. And what Roger had shared, he said, you know, really, producer recruitment, it starts at home. And you know, I know that Roger hears this all the time. We've talked about it, I hear it quite a bit. But certainly as I talk to agency leaders, one of the most common questions and frustrations that they have, and this is a real frustration is this, where do we find new producers? You know, where do I find good producers? What is that going to look like? And so, Roger, I'm going to start off just by asking you that question. When you hear that, where do we find new producers, what's your answer?

Well, first of all, I think we've got to define a producer and we share this all the time with our agency leaders. But what's a producer? One who actually produces. And unfortunately that's not necessarily the case for a lot of producers that are out there. You know, I believe that we've, we've got to continue to recruit, I mean, constantly recruiting for new team members. In fact, if you're not, does that say you're, you're absolutely plateaued as an organization. So we've got to start recruiting. And again, you said, Brent, our members of the Sidkins network are always saying, you know, where do we find producers? Where do we find producers? And what we're realizing and helping them get closure around is that your recruiting needs to start at home. Alright, now what do I mean by that? Well, you've already got producers who maybe aren't producing. So let's get the producers we have truly producing at a much higher rate than they have been in the past. When you look at organic growth rates in our industry and they're actually down a little bit this year, certainly Covid's got a, got an impact, has a big impact on that the organic growth rate, based on the last report I saw from Reagan, was a little bit less than 5%. Okay. And I think that's driven by a couple of factors. One's real positive and one's kind of negative. The positive part, if you're in the business and you're making a living doing this, is the commercial market is hardening, the rates are going up, and the economy, in spite of COVID is doing okay, certainly better than a lot of people thought it would. Now, the downside is that a lot of classes of business, especially hospitality and everything related around that are suffering. So I think a lot of agencies are certainly way better off if we didn't have the COVID But we're in a situation now where organic growth rates have gone down a little bit, and that's really concerning me. But when I look at the agencies that are saying, okay, what we've got to do is we've got to get our producers producing, and we have to have the unique selling proposition that differentiates us, and we have to have the pipelines that are overflowing. What we see, as you know, is that agencies that are committing to growing, committing to developing their producers, certainly the agencies in our network, they're growing at three times or more of the organic growth rate the rest of the industry is seeing. And it's not just some of our smaller members, you know, maybe $2 million of revenue, but we're seeing tremendous growth in our agencies that are at the 25 to 30 million dollars of revenue in our network. And so much of it. What's pretty interesting, in fact, the two of the biggest ones that you personally coach, as you know, have both done over a million dollars of revenue new in 2019. And I do think you told me the other day that both of them in this year are doing more than a million new just on BORS and aors, correct?

Yeah, they're continuing that journey. Yeah, it's very, very similar.

And what's crazy, and that's not all their organic growth rate. I mean, they're doing 5% or more just on a. And as you know, we don't teach it. I'm not one that's ever said, you know, just go out there and attack, attack, attack, and get a bor aor. I firmly believe, and the results of our. Of our members, of our network have proven it, that the AOR or BOR is a natural outcome of a unique process, of a process that differentiates you in the marketplace. So again, if I go back to my blinding Flash of the obvious. Producer recruiting starts at home. Let's get our current producers out there with a differentiated selling process. In fact, Brett, what's your great saying about having a differentiated selling process?

Well, yeah, we, you know, obviously in our, in our producer camp, we spend a lot of time on positioning through points of differentiation. And, you know, most agencies don't really know their true points of differentiation. Now, of course, that could vary by producer a little bit depending if they have a niche or specialty. But if you ask them, hey, what really makes you different, it's typically very generic. And I say that is, you know what, it's really hard, if not impossible to have a differentiated selling process when you don't know how you're different. And, and you know, typically when I say that, I say it tongue in cheek. People kind of laugh, but they're like, you're right, you know, I don't care what kind of specific process. And obviously we have the risk concierge in our private client, which is extremely effective, but you still have to know how you're different. You got to do that work. So, Roger, I want to, I want to piggyback on what you said there because I think obviously so much good stuff to kind of sort through. But the things that stand out to me, and you know, I've talked about this before too in this podcast, is that, you know, even if you don't engage or have some of the specific strategies in place, and of course we have some very, you know, you know, very powerful strategies, but even if you don't engage in those, just if you get more productive, you, you get in the, the idea that I'm actually a producer who's producing, as you stated, I'm out selling, doing that. You can have 25% growth in your agency just by doing that one thing. And so I wanted to kind of turn that over and get your thoughts on this. I know something that you explained very, very well is this idea that most agencies do have part time producers, most agencies don't have a process. And you came up with something else that you mentioned to me this week that I haven't really gone deep with you yet on, but it was very powerful when you mentioned it. But this idea that there's these two zones, one effective, one not effective, and we've got to get producers in the right zone. Can you share that? Because that was really powerful to me. I'd love the audience to hear it.

Yeah, I'd love to share because it's new. We've only shared it maybe for two or three weeks now with some of our members. The whole thing here is looking at that key performance indicator, that KPI of tss, time spent selling. So whether you're an agency leader or a producer listening and just be honest with yourself, you know, all progress starts by telling the truth. Be honest with yourself. How much time are you really spending selling today? Well, I think we also have to then define what sales means. So the two zones that hit me recently, there's a red zone and a green zone. And the red zone is when as a producer, you're doing things that are not sales related. You're caught up in hysterical activity on the way to the grave, that hog. You're in the service trap. You can't get out of it. You're not using your team effectively. All the delegation is what we call monkey up delegation, stuck in the mud and other acronym. But you're just in the stuff. You're in the quagmire. You don't have any freedom. You're totally trapped. And most of your day is just doing stuff and working on transactions. And that's red zone. You're not making money there. As you know, when we talk about our producer's perfect schedule, we say there are pay and no pay things you do. So these are all no pay. Well, the green zone is when you're doing things that are sales related. And in our model, as a lot of people know, we say, look, there are four key things a producer should do. They should make sales, they should manage their relationships. They should have a continuation process, not a renewal process. And they should build pipelines. Build their pipelines. So those four key money making activities, I'll say them again in case anybody's taking notes. Sales, relationship management, continuation process, and pipeline building. So when you're doing those four things, you're in the green zone and everything else is in the red zone. Where do you make money? You make money in the green zone. So our goal in the way we establish high performance teams and we get the producers to maximize their TSS is to get the producers in the green zone 80% of the time. And as you mentioned, Brent, if that's all we did was just a few things like that, now it sounds easy. It takes a lot of work. It takes. And it takes the whole team working together. But when we get the producers in the green zone, guess what? We just recruited a whole bunch of new producers. The average producer right now is spending the vast majority of their time in the red zone. And they just don't know how to get out of it. Or they've fallen into the classic trap that you and I have talked about for a long time. They're confusing activity with results. And at the end of the day, again, someone says, how your day? And, oh, man, I was so busy, and I'm covered up. What'd you get done? I don't know. I was just busy thinking about how do we take our producers and how do we create the high performance team. Not that high maintenance team, but the high performance team that says, okay, producers, 80% of your time. We've got to get you in the green zone. How do we do that as a team? So when we get that done, guess what? Now we're in a situation where we recruited a whole bunch of new producers, but we didn't add any producers. We just added the time spent selling.

Yeah, I got a chime. I haven't heard you say it in that way before. And I'm sitting here smiling. It's like, hey, we just talking to an agency leader. Hey, we just doubled or tripled our sales force this year. Oh, my gosh. How did you find all those producers? What did you do? Well, I just got the ones that were working maybe half the time or a third of the time to actually work like a producer. Oh, oh. Oh, my gosh. So. But it's. It is so true. And, you know, I would say this too, Roger, as you well know, and being part of and coaching and training in our most recent producer fit camp, you know, every week we talk about, hey, what's working, what's not working, and the thing that they continue to struggle with, but they're making progress is I've got to be proactive with my calendar. I've got to be more intentional with my time. If I can just do that and work with my service team, and of course, we talk about strategies of how to do that, but if I can just do that, I'm in the game. You know, you say it all the time, and I think it's very simple, but yet very powerful. It's really hard to score points when you're sitting on the bench.

Yeah.

And that's what we see a lot of producers do. I don't know why I didn't have a good year while you were on the bench for most of the time. So go. You know, it's. Go figure. It's your best player gets in foul trouble. If I'm using my basketball analogy, and you just sit there and you can't score. So that's important. I Also want to kind of lead into something that another frustration I know that producers have. And this year, you know, it's just one of those weird things, Roger, this year that those agencies and producers who had full pipelines, like they were positioning themselves for the future, which we always talk about position today to produce tomorrow. They were positioned. They did okay for most of 2020 because they, they, they were positioned. Yet most people don't. We go, oh, well, what am I going to do now? So maybe just kind of share. I know I'm not leading you with a great question, but what are you seeing with pipeline? What, you know, what are agencies doing? How do we get our producers talking about that, you know, producer recruitment starts at home. How do we get our producers to build pipelines?

Well, first of all, the pipelines for the average agency right now are empty. They're empty, and maybe some are dripping, but they're certainly not full. And our strategy is pretty simple, although hard to do. The strategy is simple. When you say that, just get to the point where your pipeline is overflowing with more opportunities than time, and it's overflowing with future ideal clients, not prospects or suspects. Well, how do we do that? Well, we have to use the power of existing relationships, especially in this world. In fact, one of our great producers that we've worked with for a long time now, and his book of business is up to almost 3 million of commission income. I guess in a lot of places that's called an agency. He's an individual producer. He's a unique individual. I had a long call yesterday. In fact, I haven't even had a chance to share with you yet on this. And his question was, what do I have to do? Everything I did before was all about going to networking events, and my clients were there and they would refer me to other people. And I was just doing a great job. And now he said, I'm getting concerned. Concerned at 3 million is a good place to be concerned. And we just got talking about the basics of building pipelines. And I said, you know, if you'll just go to every one of your clients and some people listening going, oh, here we go again. But just do this. Just every one of your A and B clients. And in his case, by the way, his A and B clients are exactly 80% of his revenue. All right? I said, what if just 50% of your a and B clients that you called up had a conversation with, shared with them a list of your future ideal clients that you're pursuing and you'd, of Course done. The cross reference against the LinkedIn profile. So here's what a future ideal client looks like for me. Here are the actual names of them. Now take them, cross reference them against your best clients and centers of influence. Create an individual list that you'll share with them. All right, yes, that's going to take some work, but so what? It's better than being in the service track if you'll just do this. And as I was talking about, I said, you know, I used to do that. Why did I stop? I said, well, why do you think? He said, well, I got to the networking events and it got easy and I forgot some of the basics. I forgot some of the basics. So we played with this idea and I said, look, if just 50% of your A and B clients gave you a referral, two referrals this year, if you were really serious about it, wouldn't your pipeline be overflowing? And he went, well, yeah, of course. And I also reminded him of that blinding flash of the obvious we shared our producer camp. Look, over 90% of your customers renew. They continue with you every year. But why is it that less than 10% give you a referral? Hmm, pretty interesting. Less than 10% refer. Why? Well, number one, you're not asking. There you go. And number two, you're not making enough deposits with the people where they feel compelled to give you a referral even when you don't ask. Yesterday I was coaching call with one of our great agency members, private client group, and we were completing the annual deep assessment we do with that process. And we got to the end there and we were looking at some of the KPIs and overall they're doing really well. Their closing ratio's 75%. Okay. And I think most of us would be real happy with a 75% closing ratio. I said, okay, but what's our biggest concern? Not a surprise. Still pipeline. I said, look, if you just think about your best customers, just take 50 clients for an average producer that are great clients and maybe it's 20, Brent, but let's just take 50, make the numbers easy.

I like that.

Everyone, like, keep it easy. That's right. Every One of those 50 clients just gave two referrals each. That's 100 referrals in a year. And if the conversion ratio, which we talk about, if you've not heard us or don't remember, conversion ratio basically says of everybody, you have a first appointment with what percent, move forward to the second. Well, if your conversion ratio is 75% and then you have a 75% closing ratio on those that you take through your unique process. That's 56 new clients. Guess what? You couldn't handle them. So let's get really simple. Let's have 50 clients that give us two referrals each, and just 30% of them convert. Because we're really serious about upfront, you know, just super qualifying people. As we always talk about, the best day to lose the sale is the first day. If just 30 of the 100 move forward and we close 75% of them, that's 22 new clients. And because we're asking our A's and B's for the referrals, and we already have a list of people that we know, they know. All right? We could certainly easily, easily be able to do that. But it's crazy. And I mean, you talk about it, I talk about it, and we see that our best clients that are getting great results follow this. Some struggle. And why do you think they struggle with it? Because it makes sense, it's logical.

Yeah, Well, I think, you know, what you said, Roger, is right on. I mean, there's so many things to go, oh, yeah, duh, we should do that. Which always leads to me, I'm just. I love to study behavior. You know, why do some people do things and why do other people not do things? I mean, you could look at it and go, well, it would make perfect sense. What is it? Well, there could be a number of things, but typically, either A, they're not clear on why they even want it, right? So there may be a lack of internal motivation or inspiration. I think in many cases, the biggest thing, Roger, that I see is there's a fear. And whether it's a real fear or a head trash fear, Right? We see that with referrals all the time. Well, what if they say no? Well, I don't know. Are you going to die? Well, no. Or better yet is if they do say no, would there be maybe a problem in the relationship that you could address? I don't know, like now, before, before the continuation process, AKA the renewal comes up. Would that be better to know now or later? Well, probably now. Right? So there isn't really a valid reason why you wouldn't do it other than there's just some level of, again, fear or doubt and uncertainty to do that. And I think, Roger, really what it comes to me, and this is the theme that, you know, I preach, and it's all part of everything that we do, is they're not professionally fit. And you Know, we use that term professional fitness, and, you know, it has a lot of different connotations. Our profit program, it's about profit. But what is professional fitness? And I think whether it's a. A lack of motivation of some kind that, you know, an agency. And again, I'm using this in a professional sense, not a physical sense, but it's a little bit, maybe flabby, has some extra stuff there that doesn't need to be there. You know, that could be. And we talk about 80, 20 with clients and our team. Are we. Are we lean? Are we mean, are we energetic?

Right?

Here's a big part of professional fitness, just like physical fitness. Am I practicing the things I should be practicing? Am I prepared to do the things I need to do? I mean, that's. That's being professionally fit. And I think many agencies have taken that for granted. And as you state all the time, Roger, it's a great business, right? It's a great business. You can get away with some of that. But I do think, and I think, you know, in our conversations, I know you as well, Roger, this year, in fact, I just answered a question from another company that asked, you know, some of the things that we've learned from this year. I said, I think one of the things that we've learned from this year is that some agencies that have been able to get away with some things have realized they can't do that anymore. And, you know, the market got tough in different things. And so I think that's all part of professional fitness. That's my, I guess, take on it. Roger, what do you see professional fitness at? What does it mean to you?

Well, it's the commitment to continually grow, to get better. You know, are you professionally fit enough to lead the pack? You know, are you going to be, I love the term, the category of one. Are you going to be the category of one in your marketplace that everything you do is about continually developing your team? I mean, could you imagine being a professional team, a pro team at any sport that doesn't practice, that doesn't develop their players? And I love the thing about musicians. You know, the best ones, they're probably going to practice, whether it's music, theater, any of the arts, any sport, the best ones are always committed to getting better. And one of our favorite sayings, as you know, is to have the attitude that I will always be relentlessly prepared, that I'll never lose a game to somebody that's more prepared than I am. So when I look at professional fitness and I see Our best producers, you know what, they work so hard at it. I love the saying that the person at the top of the mountain didn't fall there. And when I look at our million dollar producers, and I would hope that everybody listening at least wants to get to that level. And you can, because the business is so great. But when I look at our million dollar producers, I've got another one of our blinding flashes. The obvious. Every million dollar producer we work with, the ones we've helped develop through the years, did not start as a million dollar producer. They were below that and then they committed to becoming that best version possible. And when we have those that are so committed and so driven, they're so much fun to work with because they do exactly what they said they were going to do. And a question I guess I could throw to everybody listening here is if everybody did, within your agency, if everybody did everything they said they were going to do, how great would your agency be if you, as an individual producer listening, if you did, Quite frankly, just 80% of what you said you were going to do, how great would your life be? So I would just say that one of the things I would hope that everybody buys into as we get out of 2020 is that 2021 is going to be the year where I'm going to become the best version possible of myself, where I'm going to do what I said I'm going to do and I'm going to commit to it and I'm going to hold myself accountable and I'm going to get an accountability partner. As you know, that's one of the most important things.

Yeah, I'm gonna. So, Roger, I want to give you one final thought as we wrap up, but before I give you that thought, so I'll give you some time to prepare. If you could say one thing to the industry, what would it be? All right, that'd be my question to you, however you want to present that. But as you were saying that and just thinking into the conversation today, and so many just important, important lessons that I know you have learned, Roger, personally, and obviously I get the, the fortune of spending a lot of time with you. And you know, I always tell people, and this is absolutely from my heart to be able to accelerate my learning by be able to have conversations with you and others that I, you know, I wouldn't have. Right. That's part of being around great peers and mentors. I'm very fortunate with that. And you know, I, I say all that to say this is that. And I, I Told our team this morning on a call and that, you know, I call it the Sitkin secret, that, that this stuff, you know, when I started talking to Roger, you know, a few years ago, it's been, gosh, Roger, I guess three and a half, four years now. We first kind of started talking, I mean, a little closer and, and you know, I knew about the credibility and all the things that were out there and there were so many testimonials, which is incredible. Big reason why I wanted to be part of that because I knew it was real and it was results based and I knew was about these deeper relationships. And as I began to not only attend and be able to participate and now coach and speak in camps, it's one thing to hear it, it's another thing to see it. And so when I get so excited and people say, why are you so passionate about it? It's because I get to see agencies and agency leaders and producers and service team members that now have a different perspective, a better perspective. And hopefully, I mean, they would tell you a better quality of life in different capacities because they were able to do some of the things that, that either they were scared to do, maybe they weren't sure of how to do it. They needed someone to help them walk that path a little bit, to be a guide. And now to be a part of that and to hear some of those stories is incredible. And so my big thing is I said we can't have Sitkins be a secret anymore. It's got to be out there. Because I just feel this moral obligation, I really mean this, a moral obligation to help as many agencies and insurance professionals as possible to achieve that best version of their life. And again, it's going to be different, right, depending on who you are, but whatever it is to have a big impact. And so I think that's just important to share. And again, all going back to this idea of what does it mean? It's about professional fitness. And one more thing, Roger, I know I'm kind of going on my soapbox here. This wasn't planned or scripted, but I just want to share it before you give the final thought. Is that the new model that we released, the all inclusive model, again, you know, at a price point that, you know, in my world, and again, you could challenge me on, this is an absolute no brainer. I mean, in the sense of it's 497 for an agency, less than $3 million. And we're providing every one of our training programs now. You don't have to attend Everyone but you can. And you know, the fact that all of our tools and resources and we're building this peer community, because one of the things that you said, Roger, that hit me was this idea of, you know, being a million dollar producer or whether it's a 3 million or a $10 million agency, whatever it is, for your goal. I always find it so interesting that when we have two people in a, in a real room or now a virtual room, that one person's like, I could never do that. And all of a sudden they sit and have a conversation or hear something that provides that click.

It's like, click.

And they go, wait a second, yeah, I can. And then they take off, right? And the only difference was suddenly they had a different mindset and a belief which drove the right behaviors. And guess what? Results began to happen. And so when I look at what we're doing here, again, with all those things included around the basic model of getting greater clarity, building more consistency on the right things, not more things, the right things. And then just making that commitment to yourself and to your team, you know, I just go, why, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you want to be part of that in this experience, in this movement? And it hit me, Roger, it's pretty obvious there's three reasons why people wouldn't do this. Number one is they hadn't heard it yet, right? That's fair enough. Or maybe they haven't heard that enough, whatever that may be, of what this even is. And I know for some people I mentioned the Sitkin secret, they go, you know, I'd never heard of Sidkins. Like, well, they've only been around for 40 years, so, you know, it's like, okay. And the second part is, for whatever reason, they don't believe that we're going to provide the right value to them. Now, again, I would, I would challenge you and say, well, I've got, you know, hundreds. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of testimonials and results that would prove otherwise. But if that's the way you feel, okay. And I think that's probably the small amount, the majority of people I think of why they wouldn't do this is because for some reason there's something in the back of their mind, their heart, their spirit that says, what if I get all this stuff that I do believe it's going to work and I don't do what I'm supposed to do, or it doesn't get done in the right way? And if you're feeling that way in Some capacity. I just want to share with you. Listen, you're not going to be perfect. We wouldn't ask you to be perfect. We would just challenge you to make progress, to take that first step, right? And one of the things I always look at is that it's not an event, it's a process. And if you would just engage in a process and take that first step, right, be part of the first month or two, we're not going to hold you to a long term commitment. We want our value to be so great that you could never imagine not being part of this community. And so just take that first step and consider it, you know, the first step on professional fitness. Because I know the thing that always gets me is that once people attend and see it and feel it, they go, wow, I'm so glad I got a chance to be part of this. And so that's my. My call from the heart. Nothing scripted there. I just wanted to share with you what I feel about it. Again, having Roger on this podcast and hearing what he has and his value and what we bring as an organization, we just believe in what we do. And I would be doing you all a disservice if I didn't share that. So those are my thoughts. Roger, with that being said, what are your final thoughts?

I love your thoughts, obviously, but they're true. I mean, they're absolutely true. And when I look at this, what popped in my mind is a couple of things. You asked me to say one thing. It's always hard for me to do. That one is just that everybody, eventually, not everybody, the people that really take off at some point, they have that click. It's almost like you can hear the click go off in their brain where they go, oh, okay, now I get it. So as we end 2020 and we're looking forward to a great 2021, I would challenge all of you to just ask yourself this question. What's possible? What's possible for me as an individual? What's possible for my agency moving forward? You know, if nobody had ever done what we've talked about, then it wouldn't be possible. The fact that others are doing it means it's possible. Well, you've got to want it for yourself more than anybody else does. And one of the things, Brent, I believe you've talked about this on some of the podcasts before. Something that I'm learning as I get older and older is that at the end of our careers, and I guess at the end of our lives, people have either regrets or regrets, which we've talked about. Regrets means I wish I would have or could have, I should have done this, I should have done that. And regrets are saying, let's look at what's possible. Let's do what we said we were going to do. Let's have great experiences, great results, great lifestyles and everything else, and then let's keep replicating them. So that's the challenge, what's possible for you moving forward. And we'd love to be part of that journey with you.

Yeah. Thank you, Roger. I appreciate it, as always. It's wonderful to have you on here. Thanks for taking the time to come on and share your knowledge and wisdom. I know we're all better for it. And again, if you want to learn more about we're doing at Sitkins, just go to sitkins.com aim that's for all inclusive models. Sitkins.com aim and with that, I wish you and your agency all the best in your success. And if you're listening to this, certainly after we release it, happy holidays and wishing you all a great 2021. Thanks for listening.