Producer Turned Owner - Interview with Jeff Sargeant

Welcome to the Agent Leader Podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. I am excited you're with me today and I am really honored to be with a very special guest, one of our Sitkins Network members. I've got the president of Community Insurance Group, Jeff Sargent with us today and going to be asking Jeff just a little bit about his agency and some leadership principles and philosophies and challenges and all those good things that Jeff has been through as a leader of Community Insurance Group. But first of all, Jeff, welcome to the podcast. Glad to have you here today.

I appreciate that, Brent. Yeah, I'm honored as well to be even considered to be a part of this. And it's just interesting where life's journey takes you and how we met a few years ago and we're having this discussion now. So pleased to be here.

Awesome. Well, Jeff, first of all, before I get into some kind of leadership questions, first just want to get an idea, just more about you, the agency, just a high level overview for the listeners and then just more about the agency itself. Sure.

Well, I started off in Insurance in 1992 and then had the opportunity to purchase an Agency in 1995. And what's interesting about that is I was on the life health financial services side so I had to have the series six, series seven, all that fun stuff and was doing those and I was trying to link up with a local PNC agency and work, work the books. And it was very small, but I was very small as well and ends up after talking to the agency owner, he says, you know what, Je I just really want to retire and I'm kind of looking at you as my, as my out. So 27 years old and I have an opportunity to be an entrepreneur and buy a business. And so that happened in March of 95 and I got my PNC license in January of 95. So it's just funny how life takes you to certain places. So asked my wife if she would have my back, took basically our life savings and put it on the down payment and then the rest is here. So we've been at it for almost 25 years now. So we've, we've grown organically and that's how everybody starts a lot of those things. Then we went into acquisitions, bought other small town agencies and things like that and we, we made a kind of, I'll call it a coming to Jesus moment back in 2015 and realized if we wanted to be a viable operation and really to kind of keep me more motivated, we had to kind of change Our course and become more commercial lines oriented, more niche oriented, have. Have a different focus than what we always hear, copy, quote and pray. And, you know, how do we, how do we get out there, make. Differentiate ourselves from the marketplace? That realization came out. I'm sure I'll talk about another motivating factor later, but I know the Sickens group came into play soon after that and we've really grown. You know, I'll share the numbers just so you can see the impact. We're not a large agency by any manner, but when we first got on board and I bought a book of business, it was around $850,000, a direct written premium. And here in the next few months, we'll be at 20 million. So that transition kind of nice to share because I would say only about 10 years ago, we were roughly half that number, maybe 8 or 9 million. And we've really changed our focus and doubled the size of who we are and where we're going. And everybody has more energy in what we're doing now than. Than what I was bringing to the table just three or four years ago. So in a nutshell, and I know I use, you know, numbers to describe that, but it's been a fascinating journey and as I've been involved in many, many areas of growth, many areas of failure, and happy to share some of those as we continue to discuss.

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing. That's interesting. Some things I knew, some things I hadn't heard before, and you know, it's interesting with any leader, Jeff, is that sometimes we see whether it's the middle or the second half, and from the outside you go, oh, that looks great. I should do that. But looking back all the way back to 1995, you know, the, the risk that, that you took at that time, you know, and the direction your life. Life changed. That was very interesting. Well, obviously in. From the number perspective, going. Talk about premium going from 850 to 20 million is obviously significant growth and the right track. One of my favorite thoughts I heard is from Dave Ramsey and many of the listeners probably know Dave. I don't know if you listened to Jeff. Dave Ramsey.

Yes, yes.

One of his favorite things was that you see me on top of the mountaintop or whatever, and he goes, what you don't know is what I'm standing on is a big pile of poop. And, you know, basically it's all the different mistakes and lessons I've learned along the way to, you know, people kind of see the end. Obviously you've had various levels of successes in your journey. Jeff, what would be some of your greatest leadership victories? And I know it's hard sometimes to talk about what we do well because most great leaders are humble. But what are some things that be some of your greatest victories?

Well, again, I mentioned the journey you go through that being able to I guess, recognize and be prepared for opportunities. And sometimes that's blind luck. Sometimes there's an old phrase that luck favors the prepared. So I believe that. I don't think just things just fall out of the sky. I think you need to be in position to be receptive to opportunities that come by. So you know, some of the, as we talked about business growth, acquisitions that we've had, the great people that we've been able to either cross paths with former agency owners or personnel that we've been able to add to our, to our group. Those of all there's, there's by far more successes than failures through that process. And then probably the biggest one, as I alluded to earlier, was just, just a few years ago, recognizing if we wanted to be a viable entity over the next few decades, then we kind of needed to change the path we were on, make a hard commitment. It was extremely hard. I really can't imagine doing a more difficult process and having the right people around you to help you get that done and convert from what I'll call a small town. Our name's Community Insurance Group. So we were setting up shop in small towns and having to face the agency and so forth. And that's all fine and good people can make a very good living doing that. But we wanted to be that and more. So we restructured ourselves with the, with the help of Roger and yourself, Brent, to be more focused on, you know, commercial, just more focused on, you know, full time clients. Just have a complete, a new offense that we run, build a sales culture that we're still, you know, working and tweaking and doing and having all of that fall around and, and, and try to have fun in the process. And in the first couple years, it wasn't fun. It was difficult. It was, it was enlightening. It was exciting to see what you could become. But it was very difficult. And I think anybody wants to head through that type of a journey needs to recognize there's going to be pain points up front. But you need to recognize either through other examples that you know, people that you can talk to, you know yourself, Brent, Roger, that are. Have seen the light at the other end of the tunnel, you know, you break on through to the Other side to use a doors hold door song. You know, when you get over there, it's worth the effort but don't fool yourself up front. You really have to put the time and energy to make it happen.

That's really, really insightful on a lot of levels. And one of our, you know, part of the Sitkins network and you know we've, we call the professional fitness Experience and I've shared this on some other podcasts. But the, the three areas that really stand out to me as I look at agencies is clarity, consistency and commitment. And you know, I think those three go together. It's where do we really want to go with this? And so in kind of that the change you're talking about is okay, we really want to go here. What are the things that we're going to have to start doing consistently and are we going to commit to this? Because I think you hit it head on, Jeff, and I mean we've kind of talked to this in some of our own coaching calls is that these changes aren't easy and you know, the higher up you go in success of whatever it is, there's more responsibility involved, there's more people involved, there's more dollars involved. And so those trade offs, those changes, those sacrifices become, become harder and harder.

Yeah, absolutely. I would agree with that, Brent. And honestly there were, there was a dollar commitment up front and I had to be prepared for that. And again, you know, I use that phrase again, luck favors the prepared. We, we had, you know, built a profitable agency up to this point. We had dollars available to invest into ourselves or acquisitions or what have you. And you know, if you're going to change your personnel, add personnel, which we did numerous to, to fit our offense that we're putting in place there, there's a significant dollar amount put in front. So you know, I'm just Now here in 2019, if we would have started this in 16, I'm seeing the payback. I knew it was going to come and it was painful to wait and to wait and to wait, but I'm seeing that now we're having, you know, it's a record year for community Insurance group and I thank all the people that have been on board with us here to make that happen. So yeah, it's, it's, it's pain of time and, and treasure to make it happen.

Well, one thing too, just to kind of give you a little extra applause and I'd seen that in a publication, different things, you got some recognition from one of your insurance carriers and well Deserved. So you guys are doing some great things, but as you said, it wasn't certainly not an overnight success and they'll be continue, you know, to go in that process. All I can think of, you know, this is I, I always have mental images in my head. But, you know, if you're not really committed, like if you didn't decide up front, now you mentioned financial commitment, but, you know, commitment with your team and your people as well and the commitment of your time, if you didn't really see the end in mind, you know, it gets pretty, pretty easy. A lot of agencies, a lot of businesses, a lot of people that you get in the middle of it and go, forget it. You know, it's like, you know, committing to a strict exercise and nutrition regimen. And if I don't feel that in 90 days or in two months or, you know, half a year, I don't care what the timeline is, that I'm not going to have visible results. I'm not going to put myself through this every single day. And so, you know, part of that is to have the patience but also the fortitude to know that if I continue to press forward, good things will happen. So I congratulate you on that. I do want to just share with the listeners, if you could, Jeff, because this is, I think, a really important topic. You know, talk about the change that you made in all this. What's the biggest lesson you learned? And maybe you shared some of that already, but what's, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in kind of going through this specific process of change?

I always bring it back to who you're going down this path with. Who do you have surrounding you to make things happen? You know, leader can have ideas, they can have concepts, visions and so forth, but who are you surrounding yourself to help get those things done? My wife's been, been a part of that since day one. I had to go out and find leadership in certain areas to come in to help me to kind of bulk up some weaknesses that maybe we had here and just finding the right connection of people to make things happen. And, and to all degrees, we're still doing that to some point. I think everybody does that every year in their operations. You know, who, what's the culture you're trying to set in place? Who are the right people to have a part of that culture and understand where you're trying to go? And probably I know one of the things you hadn't been asked, you will ask, is what's the most challenging thing that you come across and it's communication. How do you constantly communicate the message that you want to your, your associates? And that's, I don't care if I go back to the beginning was myself and three individuals in one room or where we're at now with 23 people in, in three office locations, communication is always difficult and trying to deliver that message and, you know, I try to be as clear as possible and I just, I just smile because somewhere, somehow, through some channel that it'll, it'll fall apart. It won't, it won't connect with somebody or the message will get diluted through the, the, what we call the telephone game. It starts off one way and ends up being a whole different message because it's been spread through three or four different people to, to deliver it, it's going to fall down and you just have to know, hey, we'll just keep working at it. So I'd say my, my, my lessons that I've learned is that you never stop learning. You're always trying to, to, to find the next best way to do things. I think you guys use the number phrasing, the 8, 4, 8, 8, 8, 9, 4, 10. Thank you. 8, 9, 4, 10. I was going to get that. I was probably going to have to write it down. Brent. That's all right to do it. But the idea is that you're, you're an 8, 9. Always looking for being a 10. And what's nice is that that's what we're doing right now. We've gone through those pain points and now we're identifying. I don't want to call them small because they all matter. But compared to where we were two or three years ago, there's smaller issues and we're always trying to improve upon those. And I don't see that ever ending. And that's kind of, that's kind of exciting, to be honest with you. It, it's, it, it's like golf. We can never, and I'm awful at golf, but you can never master that game to some degree. If I can make that analogy with being an agency owner, you're probably never going to master the game, but you can. Maybe you get to be a single digit handicapper as you, as you go through this. So that's our goal.

That's fantastic. There are four or five. I mean, you were speaking there, Jeff. I wrote down four or five things, just notes that I think hopefully the audience, the listeners grasped on some of these things. But if I could just recap just a Couple quick things, because I want to make sure that, that again, that you get value as a listener out of this. One of the things you said initially was about, you know, basically, basically being a product of your environment and that, you know, you really are who you surround yourself with. That's certainly, you know, in your agency and your family, friends, community, all that. And you know, I think part of that is just is being smart around, okay, who. Who do I need to spend more time with? Who do I need support from? And within that, the second lesson that, that you shared, and this is something that boy, Jeff, Roger and I have talked a lot about this. Some of our programs is that oftentimes agency leaders and just business people in general ask the wrong question. We often ask the question, what, what do I have to do? And sometimes the better question, typically the better question is who? Who do I need to do this? So it's not always what, it's who. And I think you shared that. And then other lesson that you dove into is communication. I have probably said this to you before from my learning, but I had a mentor of mine in leadership who said, brent, the minute you feel like you've over communicated that you can't say it again, that you've said it too many times, that you're going to drive yourself nuts is the minute you're probably getting close.

That'S great. That's spot on.

Because they just feel like I've said this, they've got to get it. And then I even think of my own family. It's like, boy, I feel like I've said this forever. Why aren't they getting it? You just got to keep. It's part of the culture. And then the last thing I think that every listener can gain from this, that Jeff shared terrific insight, was the fact that it's never ending growth, never ending learning. And I think part of what you hit, Jeff, I love the word you said at the end. I think when you realize you're a lifelong learner, it becomes fun that there's always another challenge, there's always something to tackle which, you know, avoids complacency. And obviously mutual friend. And of course, CEO of Sitkins, Roger Sitkins is probably, I always share this at training. It's probably the greatest example of this that I've ever been around. And you know, Roger's been doing this for quite a long time. And after every training, every meeting, everything, we sit down and go, okay, how do we do better? What do we learn? What do you have? What are you reading? And it just never stops and it makes it a blast because there's always more to accomplish. So, Jeff, thanks for unpacking, for sharing all that and letting me unpack some of that because that was really powerful stuff. Yeah, good stuff. Good stuff. So couple more questions that I want to ask you. So right now you guys again are going through in that process of some of these changes and getting, as you said, you know, getting maybe not to the end of it because it's ongoing. But what are you doing right now at the agency to develop, to equip, to empower your team to achieve better results? What are some things that are going on right now?

Sure. Well, you know, our vision statement states we envision successful client relationships based on proven, valued solutions from highly trained and empowered agency associates. So that last phrase, highly trained and empowered agency associates. So we back that up. We have a majority of our personnel have either completed what I'll say national designations like CIC and others. We actually have a, I'll call it an account set up with national alliance that any of our people can connect with them. We've already put prepaid dollars into that and they can pursue a multitude of higher lear opportunities there. So we have a liaison within our group that we appointed earlier this year to go from person to person and have those discussions. How do you see yourself achieving a higher level of knowledge in your career? Because we look at this as a career profession. Those are the type of individuals that we're hiring. So we're excited about that. I think that's, that's meaningful that all everybody's. Again, we're trying to learn more. You never can never stop learning. So that's been set up. We call that a career development track. So we're proud of that and we're seeing individuals respond accordingly. We're also putting in place and we're just at the edge of this right now through the help of sickens performance management guidelines, I'll say for each of our departments or individuals. And we're establishing those so we can have better, deeper conversations, move projects along at a smoother pace, better communication. And this is again, go back to that biggest challenge. So I'm excited about that and we're going to have discussions this week and through, probably through the holidays and have that as a key component for our 2020 initiative. And that's, that'll be agency wide. That just won't be amongst one group of individuals. It'll be the whole agency will have some performance management, you know, tasks to accomplish. So I'm not going to go into those details. That's those things that other Sickens members can kind of explore with yourself, Brent, Roger, Brad. But that's kind of our key thing that we got going on right now. And again it's exciting but we have to get it put together and get it out there.

Yeah, that's a, that's a big project, but an important project as you know. That's why you're doing it. But it's, it's, it's back. It's funny you mentioned the word communication again. I mean that kind of becomes the theme of this conversation is, you know, how do we communicate better? And at the very top of any type of pyramid, if that's what we're designing for an agency, it's, it's always a culture of accountability. And you know, I mean this is, this is true for, you know, really every agency I've ever spoke with is the fact that, you know, it's one thing if we have a process and in place or if we have different systems or sales set offense as you talked about, but if people don't do what they said they were going to do, it really doesn't matter. It becomes a lot of hot air, oh, this is a good idea.

And so yeah, you remember having that discussion three months ago and you go, oh yeah, whatever happened to that? And we need to stop that and just be more accountable to not only from my position but all the way throughout the whole organization. So when I want to say the entire agency, that includes myself, I'll have to a performance management sheet that I'll be asking our leaders and Community Insurance Group to hold me accountable to yourself, print to hold me accountable to. So those are key things that need to be put in place.

So we're again, I think what's exciting and first of all, you know, you know, I'm a big John Maxwell fan. I know you are as well. And the idea that everything rise and falls on leadership and I first heard that years ago, I'm like, that's a big statement but there's a lot of truth to it. I mean it is right on in that. What's interesting as you said, is that, you know, the accountability starts with leadership. And I, you know, I think that says a lot about you and the organization, the other leaders there at Community Insurance Group. But what's neat too about you know, a culture of accountability done in the right way. I know things that you're working that your team's trying to implement right now is the idea is that It's a win. Win. Is that the reason we have a culture of accountability is we want to help you as a team member get to where you want to go and, you know, tell us what your dreams and visions are and let us help you get there and coach you through that and work together. And, you know, it's like anything when you have a why behind something, the what becomes a lot easier. And I think that's what I really applaud, what you're putting together there at cig. Jeff.

Well, I love that you mentioned John Maxwell, because that was kind of my key point I wanted to make here is when you and I first met, I brought this up and literally I got the John Maxwell's book, 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And okay, I think actually, actually, to give fair credit, I believe my. My wife actually had the book and I'm like, okay, well, let me start reading this. And. And so I get to law number one. Law number one states law of the lid. And it was just, it was one of those, well, like, we'll call it bfo. Roger likes to use blinding flash of the obvious, but, you know, sometimes you have to have that smack you upside the head. And it was just stunning. Law of the lid. I was the reason why we weren't. Weren't growing and getting beyond where we were. We had, we had plateaued out, and I thought I had to be again. Another Rogerism Saku, all knowledge in the universe and, and doggone it, you know, what you're, you know, you can't be that. And the, the agency was only going as far as I could take it, and I had to go become vulnerable and recognize what my weaknesses were and go out and find others to help accomplish the goals that we wanted to do. And that was probably the greatest thing that I've accomplished in my career to this date, is to recognize that even though it took 20 years and to do something about it and surround yourself with great people, that people have energy that have insight, that want to have a commitment, have a goal to reach for. And it's exciting to have others in a room and have those discussions and not sit there and go, boy, if I don't come up with it, you know, it ain't going to happen. And now I don't have that anymore. I can, I can have multiple. When we're done having this conversation, we'll be having a meeting with team leaders and trying to figure that out. And guess what? It doesn't have to come out of my head. Anymore. I've got good associates that are surrounding you that make you better. And once you recognize that. That everybody has their limitations and you become vulner and, you know, express that and attract those people that want to have a kind of a common cause, nothing can really stop you now. So, you know, here we go. So we're right in the middle of this stage of the journey, and we're off and running and happy to talk to anybody about that. But I think that's a key thing. Each leader, if it's for the agency or for a team, whatever, has to recognize and embrace and go for it.

A lot of. A lot of other nuggets there, Jeff. Good stuff. I'm just. I'm taking a ton.

All right, I'm done. I'm done for the day. I'm done for the week. That's the case.

Well, I think of all the things that I wrote down, the one that. That again, I applaud you. And any agency leader out there that's, you know, willing to say, hey, listen, I'm not perfect. I mean, none of us are.

Is.

You've got to have a little bit of vulnerability, and that's a hard thing to do. And I think. Think one thing that I. I jotted down is that I've heard this in different places, expressed in different ways. But I think, you know, people around us learn from our successes, but they connect with our failures. And, you know, it's. It's interesting. So part of that is, you know, even with your team, is that I'm not perfect and I need people around me. And, of course, that leads to another law of the 21 laws, Jeff, as you probably know, the law of the inner circle.

Yes.

Right. About who you surround yourself with. So a lot of good stuff there.

I'm still working on that first law, so don't get me off into the other.

All right, we'll just stay with number. We'll stay with number one as long as you need.

There's 20 more. Yes.

It'S good stuff. It's great. Great book. I mean, obviously it gets to kind of wrap up, but, you know, one final question, and then I do want to allow you to kind of share where people can connect with you, because one of the things about you, Jeff, is that you've always been a great sharer, you know, as far as being open to share things that are working, things are not working, whatever it is. So a of lot people to connect with you as needed. But final question is, you know, and maybe you've answered this in different ways and you want to go back into something. But what would be of all the lessons you've learned, the greatest lesson that you've learned that you think is most important to share with other agency leader leaders listening to this right now?

Honestly, I just, yeah, and you're absolutely right. I just, I just nailed it. I feel for me and for others in those last comments. And it's just, you know, as you, as you, especially as an independent agent and you're trying to make your own way and build your agency up and you have, I'll say, friends in the industry, but they're also competitors and you can talk a little bit, you can share some things a little bit, but at the same time you're trying to. Well, you know, I need to figure this out on my own because I don't want to give away my, my secrets, my edge. Whatever you think that you have, that's, that's more spectacular than anybody else. And you know, to have that mindset that for a long time, I think we all do maybe as we get started, unless you have an excellent mentor up front. But to recognize at some point in time that you, that you, you do need help and assistance. And I don't just include, you know, the associates that we've surrounded ourselves with, Brent, I include yourself, Roger, other past agency owners that I interact with that have helped me along the way and to recognize where, you know, where, where are your weaknesses at? You got to understand your strengths and capitalize on that. But where your weaknesses at and what can you do with that? And, and for me it's, I, I look at people that can recognize and go, those, those individuals are pretty sharp. They've surrounded themselves with very good talent and good, good thinkers. And, and I, I give a lot of kudos credit to those individuals. They don't have to know everything, but can they surround themselves with people that, yeah. Give you a good shot at being as the best that you can be? So like I said, it took me 20 years. If, if we can help somebody. Only take five or 10 years to get to that point. I think that's again, to this date, that's probably the greatest lesson life, not, not only in business, but life lesson that you can, you can recognize. So I'll finish on that, I guess.

Yeah, I've got, I've got nothing to add to that. That's, that's powerful. And as an agency leader, listen to this. If you didn't pick up something from what Jeff has shared over the last, you know, going on almost 30 minutes here. Then you missed out. There's some really good stuff here. And as always, one item, one area that you go, you know what? This makes sense. I need to look at this. It's all part of the growth process. And, you know, leadership is about growth. So. Jeff, I appreciate you being a leader. Peter, I thank you for being a client of ours and I thank you for being a friend of mine in the spirit of Thanksgiving. And how can people get connected with you if they like to reach out to you, the agency? What's the best way for people to get a hold of you?

Absolutely, and I'd be happy to do so. Easy. Email. Lengthy but easy. Jeff J f f@communityinsurancegroup. All one word dot com. So that's the best way. Or check out our website, communityinsurancegroup.com and you can find me on there as well. But happy to speak with anyone. And again, thank you, Brent, for let me speak with you for the last 30 minutes. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, I see. It's fun. I enjoy doing these. I learn a lot and get a chance to connect at a deeper level. So one last thing. This is not a serious question, but it's important.

Yes.

Not serious, but it's very important. Are the Buckeyes going to be national champions this year?

Now, you know you're setting me up for that because that's. That's our most difficult game to date coming up here. But, yeah, I do bleed scarlet and gray, so I. I'm hanging on. You know, when I. When I'm seeing a point spread of 18 or 17 and a half, I'm like, okay, you know, been bit by that before. But I will say this. This team's been special so far, so been watching them for a long time and this one sticks out a bit. Little, little bit. So let's see where it takes me. But thank you for asking about one of my favorite things. I appreciate that.

Hey, hey, you go. The business should be fun and it's. Glad we have different hobbies, whether it be and enjoyments and. And college football is one. And if you're a Buckeye fan, life's been. Been good. But this is definitely a very special year as an outsider watching. But my plug is we're at different levels of expectations. Ohio State wants to win a national championship. My beloved aligner actually going to a bowl game.

So, hey, you are.

It's all growth journey, right, Jeff?

That's right. That's right. So congratulations on that. You got to start someplace. That's right.

Well, hey, thank you so much, Jeff. I appreciate it. And again, if any of you listeners want to reach out to me or our group at Sitkins, it's S I T k I n s.com sitkins.com you can connect with there and want to learn more about our private client group. Love to share more information with you. So until next time, wish you guys all the best in your success. Thanks, Jeff.

Thank you.