Stop Renewing Accounts

Foreign.

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. And this is part number three of a four part series that I have with Roger Sitkins, CEO and founder of the Sitkins Group. So Roger, welcome back again.

I'm excited to talk about one of my favorite topics and that's retaining ideal clients.

Yeah, that will be the focus of today's discussion with Roger. And just, just to give a little perspective of what we've talked about so far on the first two parts of this four part series. The first episode together was really just a deep and we'll use that acronym Roger. Right. Delivering excellence in every process, but understanding where agencies need to go deeper and just an overall philosophy. The second session that we did together last week that we recorded was on selling More. And in fact we one of the principles that came out was that our decisions that we make will ultimately determine our destiny. And I think that was in fact, I know that was a very, very impactful session. So if you haven't listened to those first two parts of this series, make sure you go back and do that. And again today we're going to be focusing on retention. How do you retain, retain ideal clients for your agency? And I'm going to dive deep with Roger on a few questions that I know will be very informative to you. As the podcast listener, I do want to make note of a couple things before we dive into our convers conversation today. As always, the mission of this podcast is to help you, the agency leader, gain clarity, build consistency and make a commitment to becoming your best version possible. And this podcast series is really based all around the Sitkins mission. Our mission at Sitkins Group is to help agencies like yours sell even more, retain even more, and earn even more than you ever thought possible. And again, this is going to be about retention today over. Also, if you're interested in attending one of our upcoming programs or more importantly, being part of a very exclusive group, our all inclusive membership where you have access to all of our training programs, all of our monthly coaching series, visit sitkins.com aim for all inclusive membership sitkins.com aim so let's get to Mr. Roger Sitkins. Roger, again, welcome back. And again, this has been a really fun series to do with you and highlight these key areas. And as you mentioned and I just alluded to, we're going to be talking about retention today. One of the things that you say often, which is 100% true, is that you know, this is a really, really great Business. But just for our podcast listeners, Roger, why is this such a great business?

Well, number one, you're. You're serving people at a very high level and you're protecting, whether it's the individual or the business, you're protecting their assets. So, you know, it's a great service, but being in the business, and it's a great business because customers renew. I mean, what other selling jobs really have something that every single year, people are buying it. So it's a great business. From that perspective, it's a great business because when done properly, you create literally clients for life and you have great relationships with them. It's a great business to become semi successful. Now, what does that mean? Well, you don't. And we've talked about this so many times, but you don't have to do much of what we talk about to be semi successful. You can make more money than your peers and your siblings and other family members and, you know, whoever you want to compare yourself to. Overall, you're doing pretty darn well. But you're semi successful. You really haven't taken this and maximized it. You haven't become that best version possible. But even an average producer and an average agency makes pretty darn good money. But the coolest thing about it is when you really realize and appreciate clients are buying every year, why shouldn't they buy with you? Why wouldn't they just stay with you forever? And then how do you use those experiences you have and replicate them by getting and developing the other additional future ideal clients. And you get in there and you get referred to them and you get introduced to them, and it's a great business, so why not take advantage of it? One of the things that we hear so often with producers in our program is the producers that they were in some other business and then they got into the insurance business. And I always hear something like this, this is such a great business. I'm surprised I didn't know about it before. Or, gee, I always just thought of it as kind of like a used car salesperson. But I'm protecting people's assets. I'm getting paid really well, and they buy every year. Brent, that's a great business.

That is a great business. And, you know, I think you're so right, Roger. You say that. It just hits me that so often the. The insurance word is kind of a stigma out there. And, you know, oftentimes with the young professionals, right, the young producers or advisors or if any, of any role in the agency, well, you know, it's insurance and all that. And you know, I get that to a point. But as you said, when you really understand what, what you do, what you provide, the financial security and the relationships that you build, and then you add in that, that little carrot of the fact that even if you don't do much, this is what you just talked about, being semi successful. Even if you don't do a lot, about 90% of your clients will keep doing business with you. And I always joke in our training programs, like, listen, you don't do much and 90% of people still continue to pay you money. I mean, that's a pretty good spot to be. But as we're going to talk about today, Roger, what if you take that to the next level? You know, what if you up your game? What does that really mean? A. For the, you know, the, the purpose behind what we do, true financial security. And those relationships that you mentioned, but certainly for profitability. Right. Revenue for the agency. What I want to ask you, you. You mentioned, we talked about relationships. You mentioned the power of, of retention and what that means. You know, one of the things that people always say, well, it's a great business, Roger, because of the renewals. The renewals, the renewals. And, and you know, we love that word renewal. And that's what most insurance agents see. That's kind of the lingo that we speak. But I. Here's what I see, and you can tell me what you think. I think that most agencies and producers and production teams, they get really hung up on the renewal date or maybe those last 30, 60 days before the renewal date comes up, and it becomes kind of a little bit crazy. Why is that? I mean, why. Why is the renewal date such a big deal for most agents?

Well, first of all, we have to understand that we're talking primarily the top accounts, the top 20, 30, 40% of the customers, because the bottom ones now are pretty much automatically renewing. It's so digitized, all the technology runs it. But for the larger accounts, the top 20% that are 80% of the revenue. The top 30, 40, 50%. The 50% are 90% of the revenue. Okay. And so when you look at those part of it, Brent, is just history. Well, we've got it. We have a renewal process, and everything's around the renewal process. And we're going to start it hopefully internally, at least 90 days in advance. We believe it needs to be 180 days in advance, but they start it, but it's just an ongoing process. And you know, I was thinking about this morning, the way things used to be. And I started laughing and this is going to age me. I appreciate it, understand it, but I can actually remember seeing in agencies a rubber stamp that was that it literally said renew as is. So they do a renewal review and somebody hit it with renew as is. Renew as is. And they wouldn't do anything. But yet they still had maybe just 85%, but most were still about that 90, doing nothing. So now people get so hung up on the renewal process, but they don't really get ahead of it and realize that what you're doing is you're not renewing accounts, you're continuing relationships. And once they start figuring that out, things change. But if it's just a renewal process, okay, we're going to. Let's take a look at this account. Who's it with now? Who should we shop it out to? What additional coverages, what information is needed in order to properly renew the account, and again, who's going to do what by when? See you later. And from that point forward, it's just hysterical activity and there's no real process. No, what a lot of our best agencies are saying, it's, you know, you either have that which we kid about hysterical activity on the way to the grave, or you have a critical path you follow that's based upon continuing a relationship and then doing even more than that, continuing it to the point that they become replicators, they become raving fans that send you additional people just like them. It's really, you know, I would hope that most people listening are going to, duh, yeah, that's the way it should be. But. But there's just not a process in place in most agencies.

Yeah, you know, that's. I think part of it is the vernacular is being used is, you know, if I talk to an agency, maybe we're having an initial conversation. I say, well, tell me about your renewal process. Because they understand that, well, you know, in about 90 days, you know, we do this and then a letter goes out or that we look at this. But really it's typically some type of automated thing that really doesn't get a lot of true attention, if you're going to be honest, depending on the account. And so that's where you get to like, you know, 30 days and 20 days and 10 days. And it's like, oh, my gosh, you know, we need to get 5% more credit to make sure we keep this. Because they've got competition, they haven't really defined expectations. So we're just playing a game. We don't really know if we're going to win. And then I think going back to what you said earlier, Roger, is the fact that, you know, if it's, you know, 85 or 90% retention, well, it's still pretty good. But, but here's the point. If you want to grow 10% and you're at 90% now, you got to grow at 20, right? So, I mean, there's just part of that understanding, just some of the math behind it too. And I think the thing that you said that hopefully the audience caught is that the mentality that you should all have to be at the highest level of success is, hey, we're going to stop renewing accounts. And I know when you ever say, when you say that, Roger, when I say that people like stop renewing accounts. What are you talking about, Brent? And the idea is we've got to stop renewing accounts. We need to start continuing relationships. And as we teach in depth in our programs, that starts a policy delivery. Right? What is going to be that defined process that we're going to have, as you said, Roger, that are top 20% accounts say, wow. And they can be very, very easily replicated because we're doing the things that have been agreed upon. So I think that's just really important to understand when it comes to the. And again, I'll use the word renewal process for the audience, but as we say, the continuation process, what are a couple things that an agency should, should keep in mind? What are some things that maybe they could begin to think about and to start at, maybe at a basic level, start to implement?

Right. The first is what you just said think about, which is the mindset. Again, culturally, you know, the culture we always define as the language and behaviors that are normal in an agency. So within your agency or within your own book of business, does everybody talk about renewals, renewals, renewals, or is the mindset that, look, our agency is based upon relationships? You can be commodity based if you want to, and that's fine. A lot of it, you know, most are, unfortunately. But if you truly understand that it's a relationship based business at the level you want to play, then the mindset is, what do we have to do to continue this relationship? You said something a few minutes ago about where all of a sudden agencies realize they have competition on an account. And I'm thinking, why do you have competition? Why have you allowed yourself to get in that situation where you have competition? Well, it's because you're playing a commodity game rather than saying, no, we Want that professional relationship. The mindset is we're a trusted advisor to that. Let's just say the top 50% to make it easy for people because it's 90% of the revenue. Okay? We're trusted advisors to them, just like their cpa, attorney, wealth manager, banker. They don't shop those people every year because they have a trusted advisor advisor relationship. But if all you're doing is sending out emails saying, give us this information, fill out this supplemental app, we're going to shop it for you. Well, it's like buying any commodity. You might as well go to the futures market, buy grain and corn or something. It's crazy. So just mindset belief. And by the way, all your customers won't want to play that way because they've been educated for years, they can shop. But finding those ideal clients, getting in front of them, showing them something truly unique to the point where they're saying, wow, we've never had anything like this before. This is different. And now it's just the mindset drives a very unique process that differentiates the agency. But if they still just, well, we gotta get out there and quote it with everybody. You're gonna lose.

Yeah, as you were saying that Roger, this is something that is in every aspect of stuff that we see and teach and talk. But it's just the very basic aspect of if you do some of the harder things now, it'll become much easier later. Or you can do the easy stuff now and all of a sudden it becomes hard later. And you said the competition, that's what happens, right? Well, you know, we made it easy. We just sent a couple emails, we don't have to do much. And all of a sudden in 60 days or 30 days, you're like, we've had competition. Well, now it's really hard because you gotta go, well, what can we do? And it becomes a price game and it becomes, oh, we can do this two game. And that's not a place you want to be, right? That's not a place you want to be at all. The other thing that Roger, if you could maybe just introduce is just a topic that we go in much depth in this in our programs. But if you could give just an overall idea of a term that we use called exit barriers and what that really means for agencies and well, just.

Like going down a highway, if there's an exit you want to go off and there's a barrier, you've got to go around it. And what we see is most agencies really don't get focused on the fact that look, one of the ways you keep things is you put exit barriers in place, you make it tougher for them to leave. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm just saying that you've got certain things in place where they would never even think about leaving you. And that's what gets me too many times it's like, well they're thinking about leaving. Why would they think about leaving? What is it that would even get them to consider that? So a couple of the key ones, there are actually five that we talk about but a couple of the key ones and this is so basic and people are going to go, oh yeah, we've heard it before. You probably haven't done it though. Are they a full time client? Do you write every single line of business for them? Do you have the commercial account, the VIP personal and all the decision makers? Do you have the benefits? Do you have life insurance? If you're into financial services, are you doing that also? But you literally become that and I hate to use the term but it's true. It's a one stop shop. Where's the one place people can go to have all of their insurance and risk management needs met? Well, it's with your agency if you'll do it right. So it's full time clients only. The next is just having this whole continuation process in place that makes the renewal a non event. So if your attitude is we don't renew accounts, we continue relationships, that means that you must have then multi year strategies in place. It's one of the things especially the producers in our, our mastery program, you know, success leaves clue was sort of super success. And I can say, you know, it's not 100% but boy it's close. And you know this in our elite 50 programs that the best producers always have multi year strategies in place. This year here's what we're going to accomplish over the next two to three years. Here are the things we'll be focused on. So it's the multi year strategies and it's about having this whole process that makes the renewal not event. You mentioned it starts at policy delivery. Now that's an old term, okay, Electronic delivery policies that but sitting down and going and sitting with the client, whether it's a new client or a continuation client and going through their risk management plan or their benefits management plan, looking at the services calendar and just having an agreement on exactly what's going to happen. And then one of the most important things which we've talked about before, it's knowing what the client expectations are. And it's pretty easy to find out. You just ask them, what do you expect from us this year? And you know, we always like the litmus test. Well, the litmus test on this one's pretty simple. If they say, what I expect from you this year is to do exactly what you said you were going to do, guess what? They've bought into your plan. Hey, you know what, Brent, if you do everything in this calendar, the service calendar here, then we are in great shape. You know, studies have proven that business owners don't like the renewal process. They don't like going through the bidding process. Now if they're commodity in their own mind and insurance is nothing more than that, I can save a few bucks, that's different. But the clients you really want to build your book of business on, the clients you really want to build your agency on don't want to shop it every year, they don't like it. They want a long term relationship, but no one's ever put it together. So again, just find out, what do you expect from us this year? I expect you to do what you said you're going to do. Great. And then everything that's on the service calendar, not a B account, it might just be a couple of things. And on an A account it might be 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 things. But it's laid out and then it includes a six month meeting. So at the six month anniversary, you're sitting down and you do what a lot of people call stewardship report, we call promise report because again, it comes down to promise making, promise keeping. So here's what we said we were going to do. Here's what we did. How has that impacted you? What's the one thing we could do to provide even better service? And then at the six month meeting, you're also talking marketplace strategies. You let them know that, hey, I've got you with the Travelers now. Great company. They're doing a great job in your account. They love your account, they want to stay with you. However, we have noticed that Cincinnati Financial and Cincinnati Insurance Company also likes these type of accounts now. And we're going to be, we've already started discussions with them to just have a few options for you. So we will be coming to you at about the 90 to 120 day time frame and giving you the options you have for which carrier you should stay with. Well, you know what, that puts it to bed. But most people just won't even do those two things.

Yeah, it's the mba, Roger. Mastering the basic activities. We've shared that before and it's, and I love when you said that. It's like, well, you know, you've heard this before, but how many of you really done it? And I can tell you, I mean agencies that we begin to work with and are working with, like, oh yeah, you're right. You know what, we still have some holes in there, even for full time clients. I had to comment on a couple things that you said. I think one of the things that stood out to me that I jotted down is that you're right. If we don't educate clients and we don't explain how we and our process is different and what that means for them, the impact, well, they're probably going to continue to think many cases that you are a vendor or commodity. So it really is our job too as professionals to educate. And to add that word, professional, you mentioned multi year strategy, Roger. I was just trying to sit here thinking about going to have a meeting with a financial planner and he goes, well, here's what we're going to do this year and after that I have no idea what's going to happen with you. Wait a second, this is my future. And again, maybe it's not to that level, but you're right, I mean as businesses and individual risks evolve, we're going to be with you along this process. And here's some things that we want to start thinking ahead and here's that multi year approach that is such a differentiator when, when producers do that and have those conversations. So thanks for sharing that. That I do want to ask you a question because we're. Some of these things we're talking, it may seem more benefits or commercial lines related, but how would this look maybe for personal lines? I mean you reference personal lines, small commercial a little bit. But would the continuation process look much different between commercial and benefits and personalized.

Small commercial for the right accounts? Absolutely. Let's face it, there's a lot of accounts that will just continue with you forever and maybe they'll shop you and they'll, you know, they'll kind of do some of the clicks, pings, rings and dings and move around. But what we find in personal lines and small commercial, when we look at 80, 20, it's not the same. We find that in personal lines the top 20% of the customers are 50% of the revenue. And it's the same thing in small commercial. So getting focused on this and saying which customers would even appreciate what we could do for them. So in personal lines, we believe that you still should at the six month anniversary do a reach out, have a discussion with them, talk about any claims, experiences they've had, just make sure that there are any changes in their lifestyle, anything they're doing differently and by the way, asking for a referral. So at the six month anniversary there should definitely be a phone call, a reach out. Now most people are going to say they can't afford to do it. Then I'm saying, why do you even have the account? Because we're talking about the top 50% of the revenue in personal lines. Just reach out to 20%. And it's the same thing in small commercial. It's amazing to me how so many small commercial accounts, in my opinion are grossly underserviced. And again, let's just look at the top 20% and maybe, maybe the bottom 80% are happy just renewing online and just basic protection and they feel good about it and maybe they've saved some money. But again, Brent just comes back to do you want to be a commodity based agency? And guess what? There are a lot of people that are very successful at that. Right? I think a lot of people are struggling there and don't know it. And I know that most agencies lose money doing business with commodity, but we can certainly argue that later. But at the end of the day, if it's an account you're going to keep in house, meaning you haven't sent it to a service center, and service centers are not an option for everybody. But I just feel this way, if you're going to keep it in house, what do you owe them? What do you owe them? And so if it's not in a service center and if it's not just a commodity, what do you owe them? Because the reality is we have a tremendous fiduciary responsibility to protect their assets. And if we're just renewing as is and not knowing anything else they've done, guess what? There are probably some gaps and it can come back to hurt you and it could have, I mean, a devastating effect on your clients. Okay, maybe they'd have to sue you for E and O, but they could still be devastated for several years. So I just think we have to get a better handle on what do we owe the client and what would we really expect as a client? When you start asking that question, I would challenge all the agency leaders here or producers in your next team meeting or your next agency meeting, just even ask those questions, what do we owe Our clients? What do we owe them? And why do we owe it to them? That'd be a great discussion.

That's, that would be, that would be a very powerful discussion. I'm so glad you brought that up because, I mean, that's just. If you didn't write that down, write it down and just take it back to your team. Hey, what do we owe our clients? I mean, it's such a powerful question because I think sometimes we can take it for granted. Well, you know, we have good intentions, Brent, but you know, we just got caught up. We're busy and we're, we're planning to, as you say, Roger, in the south, we're fixing to. Right, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna get to that later. But we haven't yet. I'll just tell you just a couple examples. It's a couple of our private client members that I personally coach. There's a pretty large agency in the Midwest and an agency that's focused on personal line small commercial in the South. And you know, both of them have really taken the approach of we are going to understand our, Certainly our top 20% at a minimum, of our clients that we're on. And we're going to make sure at a minimum they get an annual risk review. I mean, they're getting a, an actual risk review. And part of that is they ask themselves the question, well, don't we owe that to those clients? Of course we do. And it's just interesting that most agencies like, well, yeah, maybe. And so it just comes back to that professional approach. So thanks for sharing that, Robin.

Here's the thing. What a lot of people, when we've asked that question in the top of the personal lines in small commercial, and I hear this, well, you know, they've never asked us about it. They've never asked us for that. Well, guess what? It's because they don't know. You don't know there's a better way. And just being the producer or being the agency, we have our better way agency program for personal lines and small commercial and just being able to say there's a better way for you to handle your insurance. By the way, if you're happy with clicks, pings, rings and dings, that's great. And even with our best clients, we're still going to do as many day to day transactions as we can. Digitized. Okay, it's going to be digitized. It's going to be just, I'm going to handle on my smartphone and my tablets and everything. For day to day transactions. But when you start thinking about it and say, wait a minute, it comes back to what do we owe them? And are we the ones telling them a different story? The point where they go, oh, I didn't even know people could do that for us. That's pretty cool. You mentioned earlier and I made a note on this. Are you going to a financial advisor or a wealth manager? Okay, it's kind of the same thing here. If you just go into your bank and talking to maybe a banker, that'll help you, or maybe you've got an account with LPL or, you know, whoever. But that's different than having a wealth manager that sits down with you on a quarterly basis. And I would just challenge you as a producer, listening. Even agency owners, if you don't have a wealth manager, does that mean you don't have enough wealth yet? Think about it.

Well, that's a great point there. And also, you know, we always talk about who's harder to fire, right? Well, the person that's giving you quarterly, you know, having quarterly conversations that really is there for your best interest and your well being, that's a pretty hard person to get rid of for a lot of different reasons.

Professional advisors are really tough to fire. And I think I'd like everybody to write that down. And if you're not a professional advisor, a trusted advisor, you get fired. But it's tough to fire your cpa, your attorney, your banker, your wealth manager. I mean, they've got to really screw up. Okay, so just get. Again, it comes back to mindset. We are going to be trusted advisors to the top 50% of our customers, period.

Absolutely. I want to ask you one more question then maybe get some final thoughts from you, Roger. But you know, we've talked again so much about what do you owe clients and the relationship part and being that risk advisor and being the professional. But there is a pretty sizable money aspect to this for agencies in the revenue and certainly for profitability. You know, most people know, is it, is it harder or is it easier or harder? You know, is it easier to find a new client or to retain one? Well, we know it's easy to retain one. So just overall perspective here, Roger.

What?

You know, it depends by agency, but what would 2, 3, 4, 5 points in retention percentage really mean for an agency? Financially?

It's, it's life changing and most people don't realize it. You know, let's just take for a million dollars of revenue and you know, do your multiples on that. But let's do a million dollars of revenue, let's do a 3% net increase in retention. Well, that's $30,000, okay? But the reality is the vast majority of that's profit, okay? And let's go to 4%, let's go to 5%, whatever the number becomes. But for every million, excuse me, for every 2, 3, 4, 5% increase in retention on a million dollars of revenue, that can be somewhere between 4 to $500,000 of increased agency value because the valuations are so high now. I mean, you know, some of our private clients that we've coached to the highest level that then did a liquidity event, I mean, they're getting 12, 13, 14, 15 points. It's crazy, okay? And so if you're in an agency that says, hey, you know what, three years from now, five years from now, maybe it's time for us to do liquidity. So let's just say you're a $5 million income agency just doing a few things here, easy to say, tougher to do, but could you increase your value by 3 million, 4 million, $5 million? Just doing the right stuff. And maybe it's only 2, but you know, one of my favorite sayings, look, if you're going to put the time in anyway, you might as well be great at it. So the retention factor just increasing, it drives profitability up several points. And it's just, you know, it's, you've got all this stuff, there's just do what you know you need to do. Easy to say.

Well, as you said that, I mean, you know, I would ask you as an agency listener to really ask yourself what would, you know, a few more points mean? And as we talked earlier, some of the very basic things that become non optional or become a priority become a focus to the agency. And certainly Rogers, you know, we see this all the time of whether it's the 80, 20 reports, right? Whether it's, do you really have a pipeline with future ideal clients? And to have that visual, you know, a future ideal clients or in this case, really understanding the numbers behind retention, when you see it, you really believe it. And so, you know, I would ask all agencies to take a look at that and go, how much money are we really leaving on, on the table here? Roger, I know we're coming up on time. Any final thoughts from you? And again, I know the retention piece and we could probably spend what, seven, eight, 10 hours, four days, I don't know, talking about this, but with the audience here, any final thoughts that you want to share with the audience.

I can tell you from past experience that giving hundreds and hundreds of speeches and running hundreds and hundreds of programs. Now, a lot of times when you talk to people and they say, yeah, but 90% is really good, you know, it is, it is. And it's good news and bad news. And here's what I mean by that. It's good news that 90% renew. Okay, but one of those, one of my best blinding flashes, the obvious ever, and we've talked about this before, is that 90% renew. But what percent refer? Less than 10%. And we all know that the best account we can work on is a referred account from a current highly satisfied client. Why aren't we getting referrals? A big part of it is we're not putting exit barriers in place. We don't have this unique process that drives an exceptional client experience that easily generates referrals. So I would just ask yourself a question as a producer and as an agency leader. If we're renewing 90% but less than 10% refer, how do we need to change our processes and, and our mindset to not only increase retention, but dramatically increase referrals? We talked about it on our last one about selling more. We threw out a challenge to our mastery level program producers and even the ones in the virtual programs. Now we're saying, you know, what if 10% of your customers referred? That'd be pretty good. What if 25% referred, you couldn't handle it. What if 50% referred? You couldn't handle it. That'd be a good problem to have. But right now, so many of them are saying, well, our pipelines are empty. Maybe your pipelines are empty because you're still just renewing accounts, not continuing relationships. I'd say that's a factor.

Well, I think it's a good lead in too, Roger. I mean, great reminder, but a great lead into our fourth session together is going to be about earning more. And I think there's going to be some more of this discussion because I'm just sitting here as you're saying that. Even for me, I've heard this so many times. It's it with agencies. But you're like, wow, if 20% of our clients produce 80% of revenue, what would that look like? If we just increased our retention points? A few. What would it be like if we increased our referral off those 20%? A few. I mean, it's significant. It adds up. But why do most agencies not do it? Lack of focus. Right? Or they're distracted. Or maybe they just haven't taken the time to really go through it and begin to get serious about it. And I think the biggest thing Rogers goes back to our podcast last week is why do some agencies do it and some agencies don't? Because some agencies made a decision. And you know, I think that's, that was so, so powerful last week. Well, thanks again, Roger, for being part of this podcast. And again, we've got one more session next week that we're going to be doing again on earning more about profitability for the agency. Just a few final things that I want to throw out. You know, one of the challenges certainly that we see with agencies, whether it's selling more, whether it's retaining more, whether it's earning more, is getting the entire team to understand the philosophy and the message and at the end of the day, getting buy in so that everyone's more accountable. And as we, as we announced last year and started, was our all inclusive membership where every member of your agency team has an opportunity and access to the philosophy, to the strategy, to the training, to the coaching, to the ongoing process to get greater buy in. And we're just getting such great results from agencies, excitement, agency leaders and you know, Roger, we just wrapped up our CEO boot camp for agency leaders and you know, so, so many of the comments were, thank you. My team's finally getting it. I've been preaching this message for a while, I've been wanting to do this, but now they see it too and we're all part of something together. So if that, you know, if that feeling, that idea of how can I get people to understand, we know there's so much more for me as an agency, an agency leader and my professionals and my clients. Well, take a look at our all inclusive membership because I can tell you we're getting, we're getting such great results and feedback from it. We love for you to be part of it and see if it's a fit for your agency. Just go to sitkins.com/sidkins.com aim and with that, I wish you and your agency all the best in your success. Thanks for listening.