Stories of Success - Jim Lewis Interview

Foreign. Hey, everybody. Brent Kelly here of the Agent Leader podcast. Welcome back to another episode. And I am super excited today to have a very special guest with me today. I have Jim Lewis, who is the executive vice president of EHD Insurance. And I'm going to say this right, Jim, it's Lancaster. Lancaster. Did I say that right?

Lancaster.

Almost Lancaster. Oh, I was so. See, even when I tried, I even wrote it down in front of me. Say it again for me, Jim.

Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Lancaster. I always said Lankister. It's Lancaster. Right.

You know, Brent, 1% better. Every day you're getting better.

Thank you. We'll talk about that. So all that being said in an introduction here, but Jim and I actually officially met, it's been a couple years ago, I was speaking at a carrier event and Jim was in the room and had a conversation. And their agency is now part of our private client group and just doing amazing things. Really proud of the, the success they're doing and they would do great things without us. But I think together, our partnership, we've done a lot of great things together as well and looking forward to seeing what the future holds. So all that being said, I want to Jim, you've already had a chance to correct me and as deservedly so. And I appreciate that. But if you could, first of all, thanks so much for being on the podcast. I appreciate having you on and if you would just maybe give a little back, background on you, the agency, your role there and just a little, little information for the audience.

Sure thing, Brent. Thanks for having me on. First of all. I appreciate it so well. We are in Lancaster, Pennsylvania at Brent, a regional firm. We've been around for over 100 years. Four regional offices throughout Pennsylvania and we are primarily property casualty, about 70%, the other 30%, personal line surety and also group medical or benefits. So we're a privately held firm and we're unique in the way, Brent, that we offer unique services both on the benefit side and also on the property casualty side that other agents just don't provide. And these services allow us to positively impact people's premiums over the long term. So that's been kind of our niche for years. And so that's kind of who we are basically as an agency myself, I started in the business about 30 years ago, spent the first 12 years with a property casualty carrier in Pennsylvania as a direct salesman and left 22 almost 23 years ago now and came to EH&D and started up a new office in suburban Philadelphia for the agency and have progressed through the years to my current role as executive Vice president for Property Casualty.

Perfect. Well, yeah, thanks for sharing that, Jim. And just to kind of elaborate on the agency and your role specifically, there's four offices, correct, at this time?

That's correct, yes.

And how many? And obviously your role, Executive vice president. You're also in charge of overseeing the sales team. How many salespeople do you have on the team today?

So we have about 32 producers on the property casualty side. That would be personal line, small business, and also larger commercial, which we define that as a hundred thousand in premium and on over.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I had the opportunity, me and Roger Sitkins to go out and visit you guys in a couple different sessions. A great team, great culture. Just a lot of neat things in being out there with you. If I can only pronounce the city correctly, then I'll be in good shape. Outside of that, you know, we did all right. But, you know, this podcast, Jim, and we've talked about, this is designed to help agency leaders, you know, like yourself, help with clarity, help to build consistent habits in the right way, help to make a commitment to be your best version possible. And you've heard us talk about that quite a few times. And I just want to get some background and talk about your leadership experience, Jim. I mean, you've been doing this for a while, as you just said. You know what, first of all, have been some victories, successes that you've had as a leader. I know that most leaders don't like to brag about themselves, so maybe you want to share it in the concept of your team. But feel free to brag about yourself as well, Jim, because you do some great stuff there at EH&D. So just if you could share some of the greatest leadership victory successes that you've been part of.

You know, I'd have to say, Brent, the initial opportunity I had with EH&D was the most exciting opportunity for me and also the biggest challenge. So I mentioned it was almost 23 years ago. I came to the firm and I opened up a new office for EH&D in suburban Philadelphia, which was kind of uncharted territory for the agency. They had very few clients in that area. They viewed it as an area of potential growth. But in the hundred years of existence, they really hadn't penetrated that marketplace. So I looked at EH&D. As I said, you know, they have a great reputation. They have services they offer that I know that most other agents don't offer. I said, you know, if I open up an office for Them, I think I can help bring clients here. So they were willing and kind enough to invest in me and offer me, you know, a salary, open up an office, hire an assistant, get furniture, get a computer and hire a producer, and all with not $1 of revenue. So. And I have to say that the biggest accomplishment for me, you know, you talk about validation for a producer as an individual, you hired a salary, you've got to get your revenue to a certain point where you're validated and returning a profit to the agency. So the owners of the H and D said, jim, in five years, you know, we think you can turn a profit, and if you did that, that would be great. So we did it in three and a half years and started turning a profit for the company. So I was very proud of that. And again, I'm not going to take all the credit for that. When you work for good people and a firm with, you know, great relationships, great reputation, and also great services, I think good things will follow anybody that works hard. So all we did was work hard and. But that would probably be, I'd say, the one accomplishment that I'm most proud of.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, you mentioned too, it kind of goes in part of maybe your greatest challenge, too. Is that right, what you stated?

Absolutely, yeah.

So just to go on those, because those two go together and you've heard us say, and you probably heard other places. I truly believe that our greatest challenges and the real challenge that we face are also our greatest opportunities. And obviously you've just highlighted a direct example of that within that exact experience and be able to say, I'm going to be able to turn a profit in this amount of time, in that short amount of time. Anything to dive deeper. I mean, you said you worked hard, but did anything stand out of. You could say, boy, this is one of the main reasons why we were able to accomplish this goal, this challenge.

I think initially what we did, and of course, when you have no renewal book and you don't have to worry about renewing clients and like, okay, every account we have is new business. And I think that created a unique opportunity for myself and, and for the initial producer that I hired. I said, you know what, we're going to get out and we're going to network and we're going to be involved in organizations and we're going to be visible and we're going to develop people that we can not only write their insurance, but also become fans of EH&D. And so we spent a lot of time networking and uncovering people that we would call centers of influence. BRENT and those initial years, the relationships we established, you know, 10, 15, 20 years later, have still been folks that have not only continued to be clients, but folks that have provided referrals to other accounts. We're trying to write and just been big fans of EH&D. So I think that was the one thing that we did that was correct and right from the get go was being involved and getting those centers of influence that would be influential in helping us be successful.

Yeah, that's, that's great. Two things that stand out. I mean, you just said the last part. The fact that, you know, we got to find influencers who, you know, have. That's why they're called influencers. They have influence there in the marketplace that you want to serve. And I think the other thing that was interesting, Jim, you actually took me back. I've. I worked with two different agencies in my production career, and the first time I didn't know better. I was at a college, so I didn't even know how to hardly spell insurance. That doesn't really even count. But the second time, when I had a little idea, I got back and it was funny. I remember, like, I had this clean desk and it was empty, and it was like I had one mission, go sell. And, you know, and I remember my boss came in and said, well, enjoy this, because once you start to sell, this desk is going to fill up and things are going to be more challenging for you. And it kind of alludes, it's interesting because it, it follows the idea so often, and certainly in your role as a sales leader, Jim, is that, you know, what happens to a lot of sales organizations is that they start to sell and they do it really well, and then they fall into a service trap, which is just part of what happens. You get clients, we've got to serve them. So just, just out of curiosity, I know this has always been a challenge for really any agency. How have you been able to, you know, in your role and working with producers and seen maybe even the great producers to be able to balance that, to say, okay, I'm building a book of business. Things are going well. This is kind of the hard part. I'm out there in the field building relationships, adding value, centers of influence, making sales. Now I'm growing this book. How have you seen that transition where you can continue to have that growth?

You know, a key part of that, Brent, is, well, first of all, we're, you know, a lot of producers in any industry. Many of Us are former athletes, not all of us, but we all tend to be competitive. And if you played sports, I played basketball. So on basketball you have offense and defense. You know, the people that played offense were very well. They're the name, they're the folks that get their, you know, the name in the newspaper. So we all like to play offense. They always told the producers, you always want to play offense because that's where the glory is. Nobody likes to play defense, but you can, you know, you got to play defense, but you have a team to help you play defense. So you have account managers, you have people that are much better at managing the day to day servicing for clients than you are. So let them do their job. Let our claims people do their job. Our risk control folks do their job. I said, if you trust the others on your team from a defense standpoint, you'll play great team defense and you'll be successful and that'll allow you to go out, score points and be the hero and make money. So just try to express it in those terms. And the couple initial guys you hire, people that are like you were basketball players as well. So that analogy worked well and I use it to this day with our new producers, whether they played a sport or not, because I think it relates to what you really need to do to be successful and in our business is not be sucked up in all the day to day the stuff that you think you're good at, but you're not. There's other people that you just need to trust them to do their job because you can't do it all yourself because it'll take away from what you're really good at, which is the networking and writing new business.

That's fantastic, Jim. And I think, you know, a big part of that. I love the sports analogies. As you know, I'm a sports guy as well. But it's true really in anything, I mean, whether it's sports or I even talk about, you know, the theater, there's someone that's on the front of the stage, everybody goes, oh, look at the person that's, you know, doing this and, or watch a movie and you see like the few actors that get all the glory and then you watch the credits and how many people it took to pull this thing off. And you know, the people in the front stage couldn't do it without those in the backstage. And I think, you know, this insurance game that we play out there to serve our clients at a high level is the ultimate team sport. And we see all the Time. As you know, Jim, the great agencies understand that and they put people in the right roles to do what they do best and to trust and support each other. So that' that's fantastic. You know, one of the things I love to ask all agency leaders is how you adapt to change. You know, and I think about just in my experience, you know, I started in 2000 in the industry, so I always think I'm still young, Jim, but I've come to realize now that I don't, I don't qualify for the young agents meetings anymore and those type of things as I got in my 40s. But I must. You've been doing this for a long time too. And it's amazing just the amount of times since I've started, let alone when I talk to those that have started, started many years before me, how much change has happened in the industry. And so the question I want to ask you is, you know, what's the one thing that you had to change or at least be part of, of a change in the agency that you really didn't want to because it was hard and now you're glad you did. And before you answer that, one of my favorite quotes on this comes from Robin Sharma, who says, you know, change is really hard up front. It's messy in the middle, but it's glorious at the end. And I think a lot of people in agencies will start, but they quit because it's hard or because it's messy. So in your experience, Jim, what's one change you've seen that's really worked out well long term?

Well, Brent, the listeners couldn't hear our conversation before we started this morning, before you started recording, but I fixed the button on my computer to allow the microphone to work, which I was very happy about, which might be the first thing I've ever resolved from a technology standpoint. So obviously to me, I guess you can call me old school at this point, doing this for a number of years, but it was always a relationship business. And everything I think needs to be done with a phone call, in person meeting. And so when technology comes in to replace some of that, I struggle with that a little bit. So, but I, you know, over the years I've gradually adopted a little bit more. Part of it is I need to realize that the generation younger than us, they like to use technology to be more efficient. And it really has helped with helping us become more efficient. But I think it's a careful balance to not have let a producer let technology replace the personal aspect of our job. So I was completely resistant to it because I like the old way. Everything's done in a meeting and in a phone call and frankly, you know, some insurance buyers prefer technology right now and it is, it is pretty efficient if it's done and used the right way. So I've come to balance technology with the relationship part of the industry a little bit better and I do see the results where it does help us become more efficient and actually helps us better serve the customer. So I'm still a late adopter when it comes to some of this but I've come to realize that some of it does is beneficial to customers and that's what kind of drives me because if it's better for them and then it's better for us.

Yeah, that's great thoughts there, Jim. And I don't think you're alone for all of us that there's certain things that we've just believe in and we've adopted to. And it's hard when things change. I mean change is hard. It was interesting I was taking some notes as you were, you were talking there and a couple of things that, that it interests me and you've heard us talk about this before, Jim, but this idea of technology, certainly we need to adapt to it and I think agencies, at some point you're forced to, right? It's I don't want to, I don't want to. You're getting drag kicking and screaming. It's like no, you will because there's no other way. But I, what I see agencies like EH&DJEM and you guys are doing is not to disallow technology to replace relationships, but to enhance them. And you know, and I think there's a big difference in that. I see a lot of agencies that go oh well great. Now what technology does, I don't need to ever talk to anybody. I don't need to go out and offer true risk advice because it can all be done online. Yes, there's some aspects that make it easier for the customer. But what I see it's like in any industry, I mean you have technology that's taking away certain roles and positions that you know, quite frankly computer can do a better job at, but it allows, I believe at a high level. I mean just think of a restaurant, the things that have changed that technology can do as far as check ins and reservations and all those kind of things that you should be done by humans. Well, I see great restaurants taking that human capital now going and delivering a higher level of an experience and having real Authentic conversations with their patrons. And I think that's what insurance agencies are seeing too is, hey, we can leverage technology to do certain things that quite honestly, we don't need human capital to do. But look at the higher level of quality we can provide in certain ways. Because as you know, we teach. Jim, I don't think it's right for agencies to work for everybody. Not everybody is a great fit with some agencies. Right. But those that are, wow, can we deliver above and beyond and do some things like, I don't know, Jim, if you heard us say this, pick up the phone and say thank you. We're not, you're right. We're not even getting into the deep stuff of what you could actually do from a risk advice standpoint. But just saying thank you. And I think the other thing that you said that I want to piggyback on was to mention it all goes back to the customer, all goes back to the client. What's in it for them? And I think understanding their value system, how they want to buy, how they want to be serviced, you know, asking those questions is so impactful. And I think that's something that, you know, agencies like yourself, Jim, are doing a great job of.

Well, thanks, Brandon. You hit on something there. Exactly right. You know, technology, it doesn't replace what we do, but if it serves the client better and if it frees us up, we can use our resources to kind of raise the level of service that we're giving to our best clients. And I think that's what we're, you know, that's how we're looking at that. Not to necessarily save us money, but to allow the customer to be more efficient and allow our resources to really, you know, concentrate on what we do best. We can't take every phone call and every claim. We're only here from 8 to 5 o' clock every day, Monday through Friday. Well, people have claims 24, 7, 365. So carriers and technology allow people to more efficiently report claims. And then we get involved when the customer has a problem or a concern and we can advocate on their behalf. So it allows us to do that part of the job where we're really good. Whereas a simple reporting of the client could be done more efficiently using technology.

Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, totally, totally agree with that. And again, I think there's the mindset of, oh, well, technology is here, I don't have to do anything. Or the technology is here and let's embrace it and utilize what we can serves our clients and then find and take that Time and leverage it even a higher level. So I appreciate you, you sharing that couple more questions, Jim. And again, I appreciate your time, so I don't want to keep you too long, but just a couple more questions. One that I always like to ask agency leaders is, you know, I'm a big believer, we all are, in developing empower, equipping your people right on your team to help them get better results. So, you know, you guys do a lot of things at EH&D to work with your team to help build culture, to help produce better results, and ultimately to help give your team a better lifestyle, Right? So what are you currently doing at EH D right now to develop equipment, empower your team to achieve better results today?

Well, we hit on one thing we just talked about is technology and allowing our folks to be more efficient. But the other thing, and one major undertaking, Brent, something that we're doing in conjunction with yourself and Roger, is to have a clear, defined sales process for our producers and also for our account managers, our service team. And we're only six to eight months in this. But what it's given to producers, number one, is a clear example of what a successful schedule looks like, what they should be doing Monday through Friday and also Sunday nights each week. And that allows our service team to know exactly, hey, here's what the producers are doing. They're in the office Monday and Friday and they're out selling Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. And just having that simple, clear plan. It's amazing how not even just the producers get excited about it, but the staff, the service staff is so excited. They know they're helping the producers be successful and be out on the road and they support it 100%. So it's been just a great, really a revelation for us. And it wasn't something that we thought that was. We recognized that it was missing. And we think we found the perfect partner with yourself and Roger and the rest of the team at Sickens to help us get there. So you guys have helped other people do this. You guys are experts at it. And we really like the impact it's had on our agency in our first year together.

I appreciate that, Jim. Obviously you guys are doing the work day to day. We're just there to help provide the support and give you a little bit of a roadmap. And I think this is true for any agency. Agency, I mean, what you said, it's, it's, it's such, you know, just common knowledge, I guess, and I hate to say that, but it's true. And going Back to a sports analogy. It's interesting to me that here we are in the business world for agencies, and a lot of them really don't have a game plan. I mean, I mean, really at all. It would be. It would be similar. Here we are in football season as you've got 11 players that go to the field and no one knows what play they're running, and they're all going different directions, and you're like, oh, why isn't this working? And so a lot of it is just to have some. Both individual preparation and team preparation, just to talk about, you know, some of the areas and direction we want to go and how we're going to get there. And it is a process. I mean, nothing happens overnight. But as you guys are already starting to do and see, I think was as fantastic is that by, you know, having some time to prepare the week to. By having, I think, in depth, going back to the team approach, communication with the entire team about, you know, what it is that we're doing, and have those clear conversations. It just creates freedom. And I think that's what's interesting is I always. I label my label, myself, Jim, as a recovering producer, because I just have a producer mindset, and the fact that I'm kind of all over the map, and sometimes it's hard to reign people and producers in. It's like. I think the joke I always heard is like, sometimes to manage producers, it's like trying to nail jello to a tree, you know, because they're just. They squiggle and they're all over the place. But you find when you give producers some clarity and even though they don't typically like the rule, so to speak, or structure, do you give structure? You can be somewhere expansive within that structure, and I think it actually creates freedom. Although sometimes people think it's. It's, you know, it's like having a budget, you know, well, geez, I got a budget. Now I'm squeezed. Well, no, now you actually have freedom because you feel confident in where you're going and what you're doing. So just some things to share. As you said that, Jim, I think that's really, really powerful. Anything you want to add to that? I was kind of rambling on there for a second, getting on my soapbox.

No, that was perfect, Brent. You know, we just. We just finished the first season of the NFL season, right? So I'm an Eagles fan, and I'm glad we got a win. But you look at the best team in the league, and of course, nobody Likes them, the New England Patriots. But what you hear about them all the time is when you go to the Patriots, you got to do things the Patriot way. They've got a system, and you've got to fit into that system, and their system works. And when you watch them play, they did the fundamentals very, very well. So it's the same thing in business. It's the fundamentals, it's practicing. It's the basic blocking and tackling. And if you do that, you'll be successful. But you're right, Brent. We all get busy. You know, when you're managing, managing an agency and you for office or whatever, you can convince yourself, you know, we've got so much stuff going on, and you do, but you have to take time for the basics and. Because that's what makes you successful in the long run.

That's a great, great point. And I think with the basics, there's. There's so much stuff back to technologies out there that's exciting and sexy. I. You know, you use that word, but it is. I mean, and, and, you know, and don't get me wrong, there's some really good stuff that you can do out there with technology and otherwise. But, you know, I grew up a Chicago Bulls fan because I'm an Illinois gym, as you know, and, you know, in the 90s, so how would you not be a Michael Jordan fan? But it was interesting to hear, like, you know, the greatest basketball player of all time, at least in my opinion, you know, do all these dazzling things. And he said, you know, I started every practice off with chess passes with my team. And this is when he was in his 30s. He said, well, why? Because if I don't do the chess passes, I can't do the other stuff. And I've got to always be diligent in doing those things that work. They're the basics for a reason. They've been around for a long time for a reason. And it is funny. I mean, you'll see people in sports that are trying to do all these crazy stuff, yet they can't make a layup. You know, in basketball or whatever it may be, it's like, learn how to dribble the ball with your head up first, then you can do this and that. Of course, that's not fun, but that's what works. So I think that's going back to the idea of it's not always pretty, it's not always sexy, but guess what? It gets results and allows you to do some of the more challenging things down the Road. So good stuff.

Exactly. Agree with you.

Good stuff. Well, last question. Jim, this is my last question. I'll let you off the hook here and back to the real world of business. You know, all your years of experience that you've had in working with teams and agencies and just your own personal experience. What if you could say this is the greatest leadership lesson that I've learned in my life that you can share with other agency leaders listening today. What would that be?

You know, Brandon, I go back to when I started eh&d and when I came on board, we started a new office. As I mentioned, we hired some new people and I traveled around to some of the other offices. I went lunch, went to lunch with a couple folks and you know, there was a lot of people that are very supportive. There's also people that were doubters and well, you know, I give you guys a couple years. I don't think the office is going to really make it. That's too challenging. It's a big marketplace. There's a lot of competition. So. And there was more than one people that thought that way. Certainly the people that counted didn't. But. So I would say my one lesson is whatever organization you're in, you don't, you don't have to follow the crowd. You know, you come in, you have a mindset of what you think you can do to be successful. And if you stick to that, you know, don't get sidetracked by the doubters that are in every organization. So I would say, you know, don't follow the crowd. Stick to your guns, what you know is right and, and follow through, you'll be successful.

I love that. Great, great lesson, Jim. I appreciate you sharing that. It goes back to just the idea that I'm sure many of you listening have heard is that belief drives behavior. And, you know, there's a reason we, we have at the Sidkins Network and we've talked about this a lot, is our professional fitness experience was clarity, consistency, commitment. And there's a reason why they're. There is because when I see agencies and leaders and producers, when they're very clear on what it is they want to accomplish, where they want to go, why they want to go there, and they go, okay, this is where I'm going. And I know I've got to do these things consistently, even when people tell me it's wrong or people tell me I'm wasting my time, that I believe in it, I'm going to do this. And to do that, I've got to make A commitment to myself. I got to make a commitment to my team. I've got to make a commitment to my clients, my community, whatever it may, that I'm gonna go play full out. Because as you know, Jim, and as you just expressed, there's gonna be bumps along the road. People are gonna doubt you, people are gonna say you can't do it, you shouldn't do it. Especially if you try to do things differently or better. Because quite honestly, a lot of out there in the agency world is pretty average. And you know, it's, it's, there's a, there's a crab theory. Last thing I'll share on this. It just, I just read this this morning again, but the crab theory, when the crab tries to escape, one of the crabs try to escape, the other crabs try to pull him back down. And I think that happens a lot in leadership as we try to go above and beyond and do things. And people don't like to see you succeed in some cases. And you got to believe in what you're doing. So I know you believe in what you're doing, Jim. I know EHD believes in what they're doing. And we're happy, we're first of all, very proud to have you as a Sickens Network member and certainly just proud of what you do day in and day out and just the what you're doing for your clients, for your community and everything else. We appreciate you having on today's podcast. Jim.

Brent, thanks. I love talking business and personal with you and we love what you guys are doing for us, so, so thank you very much and I appreciate you.

Thank you so much, Jim. Well, if you enjoyed this podcast, as always, please rate and review. We're trying to grow and impact more agency leaders like yourself. So until next time, all the best and your success. Thanks so much for listening.