Success Leaves Clues - Interview With Matt Fairbanks

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. And today we have a very, very special guest, a good friend of the Sitkins Group and our team and an incredible producer and leader out there in the marketplace. Matt Fairbanks from EHD Insurance will be joining me today and we'll get to Matt in just a second. But I also want to make sure that I, as always, reaffirm the purpose of the podcast of the Agent Leader Podcast is to help you, the Agent Leader, gain clarity, build consistency and make a commitment to become your best version possible. And also just a few reminders, if you are interested in learning more about some of the Sitkins programs and things that we're doing out in the marketplace, please visit our website at sitkins.com programs@sitkins.com programs love to see if one of our whether it's individual program or all inclusive model or our private client group is a fit for you and your agency. And so with that I want to dive in and get right into our very special guest. I promised to the listeners, Matt, that we would be having more guests on the podcast and I've had a few in the past and I've had many conversations with Roger Sitkins. But again, really honored to bring in Matt Fairbanks. And you know, Matt's got many titles, but probably dearest to my heart, Matt is the fact that you're also a father of five kids and so we'll start with that one. But Matt is a benefits producer. He specialized employee benefits. He's also a sales leader and a shareholder with EHD Insurance in Pennsylvania. So Matt, just without any further ado, welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. So glad to have you with me today.

Thanks so much, Brent. I'm actually really excited to be part of the podcast today and I guess just a little over two years involved with the Sitkins network. So again, thanks for having me on today.

Yeah. And I'll let you kind of talk a little bit about just briefly kind of your story and some of the things that you're doing. I think people would be very interested in hearing that. But yeah, as Matt mentioned, just you know, we together as EHD is a private client group with the Sitkins Group and we started working with EH D in 2019 and actually did a private producer camp. So that's when I first met Matt was back in 2019. Matt's also participated in our elite 50 sales mastery group. So glad to have him in that and also is a, it seems to be almost A regular contributor to Rough Notes magazines now. But if you're not a rough notes subscriber, EHD's been in there a couple times and the most recent one was specific specifically on employee benefits and a great write up on the entire team, certainly featuring Matt. So Matt, could you just maybe give an overall background. I gave you again a very high level review of your title and positions, but maybe just how you got involved in the insurance business and kind of your roles at ehd.

Yeah, like, like most people I obviously decided at birth I wanted to be an insurance and, and just followed that dream. No, but, but no, obviously like most, I kind of fell into it through a variety of different ways and had worked on the carrier side and then started my consulting career with a, a smaller firm that in central Pennsylvania. And through some unfortunate slash fortunate events, they obviously turned out very fortunate. I was partnered up with EHD close to 12 years ago to start my career really as a producer and came to EHD specifically as a benefits producer where, where my career took off and actually was put under some, some constraints I think that have led maybe to my success and I think we'll talk about that a little bit as we move through. But a focus on self funded clients here in central Pennsylvania have really had the opportunity to, to grow at ehd. And you mentioned some of that, taking on some additional roles and leadership opportunities and then about two years ago being invited to be a shareholder here at ehd which is really I think the ultimate goal for many producers.

Yeah, well, yeah, you mentioned shareholder and you know, whether shareholder partner, but being part of that, it says a lot. I mean obviously for so many reasons, especially with a firm, you know, like EHD and what you guys represent to the marketplace. If you could, Matt, again and you know, whatever specifics you want to provide as you came in, you know, I think people are listening, going okay, well this Matt guy seems like a nice guy, but what have his results been? Can you share a little bit? I know you're not a, you're not a bragging kind of guy, but if you could maybe share a little bit about just outside of your benefits position. But you know, what does your book look like? Who do you work with? That kind of stuff.

Yeah. So my book is projected this year to finish a little over a million and a half dollars. I'm having a great year this year have actually met my sales goal. It's May 21st and set my company or met my company sales goal for the year which, which is great but like most people Now I'm trying to see what I can really do. It's a good spot to be in. And did I ever think that I would, I'd be sitting on a million and a half dollar book of business? No, it wasn't easy to get there. And there along the way was, was several plateaus. I mean, I think one of the, one of the greatest achievements is I was hovering right around that million dollar mark two years ago when I met you guys and had to really take a hard look at myself and figure out where is it that I want to be and where do I want to go? Because million dollars always seems to be that, that apex, you know, of, of producers. Oh, you want to be a million dollar producer? Everybody throws it out there. But once you get that, you got to figure out what you want to do next.

Yeah, it's like, well I'm here, I made it. Well, you know what I'd like for you to share to the audience, Matt, because I, you know, I certainly appreciate getting to know you and just the way that you think about things and just the solution mindset you have. And like any great producer that we work with, I mean it's just the mindset of, of you know, the best version possible you've heard us talk about or just that winning mindset. And so I guess, you know, as you said, you know, well, I, I sort of kind of plateaued at around a million. You know, I know there are a lot of people listening go. I would like to plateau there but you know, at least to get to that point to plateau. But I'd like to hear kind of your thoughts on a. How were you able to get to that level? I mean what, you know, to get to that million dollar mark, what was your mindset? And then kind of fought question to that and this is probably a long answer you're going to need for some of this. But how did you get to the million? And then when you sort of plateaued there, what was the thing that got you say, you know what, I'm not, I'm not done yet. I got more, I got more in the tank to fulfill.

Sure that. I mean it's a great question and something I've reflected on a lot of, you know, and fortunately Brendan, I will give you some kudos there. You and I have had a lot of personal conversation around this. One of the first things that really helped me to gain any level of success in this is I was constrained when I was hired at ehd. I was recruited by what is now our Executive VP of employee benefits and he was very strict in allowing me to work on certain size groups. And we have a lot of conversation around picking your minimum thresholds, what you want to work on. But when you are a beginning producer or even if you're at that 300,000 or you're a non validated producer, you want to take and write anything that comes in the door. You know, a win is a win and it's really hard to turn away those opportunities or give them to someone else. So when you talk about mindset, you have to have a mindset shift that, okay, if I focus on these opportunities in the long run, it's going to be the right solution. It's really hard. I mean we're not a society that, that likes to think in the long term. But the other part that was really hard for me on a mindset was we as EHD weren't going to walk away from those opportunities and I had to be okay with the fact that other people were going to work on those and other people were going to have success in writing those and that wasn't going to be revenue that was counted for me. Uh, and that's really hard when you are trying to wrap your heart, your arms around every bit of revenue. So the mind shift of I, it's okay, it's okay that other people are going to work on that. It's okay for the greater good of the organization for ehd and it's okay that I'm going to go work on these bigger opportunities and I'm going to have more success in the long run on that. But that really had to be, that really had to be pushed on me by leadership. And in hindsight I was actually joking about that the other day that I had to give an opportunity to somebody else. And the person who I referred to on that, she said it seems to have worked out for you, you know, and it was, it was very funny that she said that, but it's true. You know, you have to be willing to see other people succeed and it is really great. Then when you see your book grow in spite of that.

Yeah, just a couple of thoughts on this and then I want to ask a follow up question because as you were saying that I think one thing that I do want to make sure I, I get to after my point here is that how many clients you have, because this holds true on what you're trying to do. I go, oh, okay, I see what he's talking about. But you're, you're, you're so, Right. And obviously every agency is, you know, looks a little different and how they're constructed. And you know, EHD is a, considered a large, certainly agency out there in the world today. And so there's all perspectives to this. But the bottom line is this, what I love about this is part of the culture was we're worth more than this as producers in essence. Right. That we have greater value. And the challenge, like you said, is that when you're trying to grow your book, you're like, I don't really care, I want to get some business in the door. But that focus to say, listen, no, long term, this is going to be the best way. This is a career that's going to serve you and you've got to be laser focused on the right type of accounts that you want to get. And one of the things that you guys were already doing to a degree and before we met, as you mentioned, was having some kind of minimum account size. And I think that's a big step for a lot of agencies you work with is. Well, we've never even thought about that, We've never even addressed it. But what that means, I think in many cases is A, and you tell me if I'm wrong, get you focused on building the right pipeline and, and B, kind of eliminate some of the excuses that you get for just, you know, being busy, being busy doing things. Is that, is there some truth to that?

There's, there's a lot of truth to that. And you know, talking about the plateau to, to moving forward, that's, that's been applied a lot more. I'll kind of answer your question. I have 32 accounts, so a million and a half dollar book with 32 accounts, which is a pretty good average account balance. So changing the mindset and developing the pipeline, when you're able to do that, you don't really want to focus on small accounts. When you're able to do that, you want to continue to focus on those types of accounts. One of the mindset shifts that occurred, you know, two years ago when we met with you guys, with you and Roger was, was using those clients to find new clients. I mean, obviously we talk about referral and referral explosion and those types of things, but being confident, having that mind shift to say there's a reason that these people are working with me, there's a reason that they've trusted me being confident to ask them the question. And you know, those types of companies work and have relationships with similar sized companies or larger companies and asking them who I should be talking to was a huge piece for me in building that pipeline. So going back to your pipeline question. Yeah, the focus is absolutely there. One of the other pieces on that too is looking at those companies and who they do business with, being confident to walk out to them and say, hey, who do you know at these other companies? So as I'm building my pipeline using that kind of laser focus on who should I be talking to? Do you know anybody here? Who should I call? And that's really the part of moving forward. I'm not sure if you asked this question, but it totally popped into my mind. Brent, while you were asking your questions, the other piece about building that pipeline and moving forward, you know, I had an eye opening experience. I was meeting with a guy who kind of bills himself as a business coach and a producer coach and I was trying to do the 8020 analysis. So, you know, 80% of your revenue coming from 20% of your clients. And I couldn't figure out how to trade down my accounts and I felt really, really silly that I couldn't do it. And, and of course I'm joking and I'm talking about you and I took my list to you and you're, you laughed because you had never really done a book analysis with me. We, we had talked about it, but you hadn't looked at it. And that was a real eye opening experience. You talk about a mindset shift and you looked at me and it took you three times to say it before I got it. But you're like, you've got time, you've got time, you've got time. And I realize what you're saying is, you know, you can manage a block of 30 clients because you obviously have very solid relationships there and you've got time to do the prospecting, you have time to do the other things of identifying who it is that they work with, who are their business partners that they could introduce you to and really getting away from the, I just gotta do everything for these 30 clients and realize, no, they trust you. They trust you set up the schedule and work with them, but then also use that as an opportunity and spend some time, you know, get back in the R circle and revenue producing activities to make sure you're, you're asking those questions and meeting those next people. I've also, and even prior to sick ins, was a huge proponent of using my service team to their fullest abilities. And I have an amazing, amazing group of people that work for me. And I don't mean that's terrible to even say that they work with me, they don't work for me, they work with me of my clients and they have some super strong relationships. And even in some cases I worry that they stronger relationship than I do with some of the people at these organizations. And you know, again, not a worry. I joke, I'm just competitive and the clients have no problem calling them and they deal with so much of the day to day activity that I don't have to worry about. And they report it back to me and they bring me in when they need help and that is really helping me to grow my business.

Yeah. So hopefully the listeners out there are taking some notes of what Matt's saying because obviously this is, you know, tang tangible, real stuff that Matt's gone through. And you know, again, you were, you were doing a lot of the things that we talk about before we got together and I think you just accelerated after, you know, I mean, and just you made some more and more of those shifts. You know what hit me, I think we've talked about this before, Matt, is the fact that like the higher that you continue to go up, the harder those trade offs and trade downs are. Right. Because there's more to give up.

Exactly.

And you know, and at some point too, you know, you look at it, we have our best producers, they look at the 80, 20 all the time and find little ways to twe it. But we also look at, at some point could you get to some form of balanced book of business. And you have really come a long way to being pretty close to that. You know, certain the producers I have that you've kind of gone, you know what, this is a pretty good book. Like you don't have a lot more trade downs because you've been so intentional for so long on it. One thing that I do want to note too, and this is just for the audience to think about, is that two episodes prior to this, you know, Roger and I were doing a four part series and one thing that he noticed is, you know what I've realized, Brent, is that whether it's an agency or producer, the ones that succeed decided they made a decision. You know what, this is what I'm going to do. This is who I'm going to be. And kind of through what you said there, Matt, you've made a variety of decisions, but you also kind of had the future in mind of what you were going to design. And you did that. And so hopefully everyone hears that. And the last thing I'll say is this. And this is something that you as A, it struck me this is from an entire group of your sales team at ehd when we were talking about trade downs. There are a lot of people in your group that got a little antsy. At least that's what I saw. Like, what are you talking about? I'm not good at my business. And one of the things you look at is that if you look at, you know, we talk about A, B and C clients, right? And the top 5% are your A, the next 15 are B, and then the bottom 80 are your Cs. For most agencies, you look at it and go, well, really, A accounts are about on average five times the size of B accounts. B counts are about eight times the size of C accounts. So there's a 40 to 1 ratio from a to C. And so you start looking at books of business. As we were telling your group, hey, listen, go replace some of your C accounts with an A or B, then release them. Like, you don't ever have to lose revenue. Just be intentional. Eventually they'll get to a book like Matt Fairbanks. Well, we just did that specifically, but that's what I was thinking on that. So thanks for sharing that. I want to. So you've talked a lot about just kind of mindset. What specifically? You also mentioned a little bit of, kind of what you've done through some skills. But I do want to ask you about that. I mean, I think a lot of people would ask me, well, what kind of things does someone like Matt do day in, day out or week in, week out when it comes to skills or tools or resources that have helped you, been a high level producer, helped you get up to a million, now at a million and a half with, you know, a handful, AKA 31. You said 31, right, Matt?

32.

32. I'm sorry, 32. I was, I figured you traded one more down 32 clients. So what are some of the skills you developed and are developing along that way?

A lot of the focus that I've, that I've placed in, I don't think I recognized I was doing this until a couple years ago. But we talk about specialization in being a producer and we always had the mindset or I always had the mindset. Employees are employees. You know, it doesn't matter where you work or what you do. Employees are employees. That's actually not the case when you get to the corporate level. Yes, every employer has employees, but you really have to carve out a niche for yourself. And so for me, I've focused almost exclusively in the Self funded environment. I think of my 32 clients, only two are not self funded. And that is something where then I consistently have to work on my, my skill set in being the most knowledgeable in that area. The other thing as it pertains to that, and I definitely used to be the producer that was so confident in what I did, I could wing any meeting at any presentation. And as far as skills go, Brett, I haven't practiced as much in the last, you know, I've practiced more in the last two years than, than I think I did in all of high school sports. I mean, it is, it is something that I really work on and it's even practicing talking. If people walk by my office, they may think I'm crazy. But even before making a prospect call, I, I have a little talk with myself, a little inner dialogue. And what am I going to say here? What if they pick up the phone? What is the conversation I'm going to have? Going into client meetings, future ideal client meetings, preparing what I'm going to say. Even as, as simple as a breakfast meeting I had this morning with a prospect and I had prepared some materials which I never would have done prior to a breakfast meeting, but I prepared something to have to give him and I prepared what my conversation was going to be with that individual. So that's something that I had never done before. So it's just a constant, really honing of my skills and, and a lot, a lot of practice is really what I've been working on over the last two years, just making sure that when I tell my story, I'm very confident in that. And I think a lot of that also comes with the fact that I wasn't really sure why I did what I did. I sold insurance. And that trivializes what we do. And I realize now I do what I do because I know I am helping people, but I also fully understand why I'm doing it for my personal reasons. And I'm not going to get into all of those today, but I really worked through that and then had a lot of thought in trying to figure out why am I in this business? Why did I choose this as a profession or why did it choose me, but why did I continue in this profession? And so because when you, when you get that level of clarity where you know why you're doing what you're doing, you really want to just continue to, to learn and be better about it. It's, it is, I go back to mindset, but it was a complete shift. You want your skills to Be the best if this is really what you've chosen to do for the rest of your life.

Again, I hope the audience is taking some notes on this because there's so many golden nuggets that you've dropped there, Matt. I mean, we always say success leaves clues, right? And you're, you're dropping some clues that hopefully people are. Are listening to and writing down. And certainly I won't go into the specifics, and I would remember every specific anyway, but you mentioned, you know, your why, and you're kind of going back to mindset, but, you know, why do you do what you do? And, you know, we do an exercise in our producer camp called Seven Levels Deep that I borrowed from the book called Millionaire Success Habits by Dean Graziosi. And you were. I think, Matt, you might have been the first or second person that I did that exercise with live. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I'm not going to. You can share what you want on it, but, I mean, I'll just say this. I can tell and do it with you. I never know what the outcome is going to be. It's just, you just kind of have a conversation about going deeper into your purpose. And I would just say that was pretty impactful. Seemed to be with you when you did that.

Yeah, it absolutely was. Brenton, you know, again, getting to the, to the real heart of the matter. Why. Why do you want to be in this business? Why do you want to help people in this business? And it is a full understanding that you're not just selling insurance. You really are helping people and being confident in what you do. I mean, I've never really struggled with. With confidence, but it gave me a whole new level, and not arrogance, but a whole new level of confidence that these relationships I'm developing with people are very personal. And, and that is really what helps with that success. It's those deep relationships that allow you to connect on another level where you, you do become more than a trusted advisor. I mean, I would, I would say the majority of my clients are also friends. I mean, it's just, you have to, you have to get to that level to, to have high level of success.

Yeah, I, I appreciate you sharing that because there's just such a deeper level of meaning. And I, you know, some. You've got, you know, some people listening, whether agency leaders, producers, whatever, that are going well. I just kind of want to get out of survival mode first or get where I'm more comfortable and certainly understand that. But, you know, at a certain point, I think it really Goes back into, you know, how, you know, you got to a million, and then it's like, yeah, but there's more. Is that because, you know, Matt, some greedy guys, I want more money. More money. No, it's. You're living a purpose. And I think, you know, that's. And I don't mean that to be cliche. There's just a deeper meeting there of what you do and the impact you have and the relationships that you have. And that's something of like, why do you wake up? Because I'm out to fulfill that. And it's not just about the money. That's a good outcome. That's a good result. But it is. It's much. Yes. Yeah. I always joke when I say that, it's like, I don't know. Many producers are like, hey, you know what? I appreciate this commission check, but I'm really going to give it all back. I just did it for my deeper purpose. Like, now most still take the money, too. It's okay.

There's, there's. There's definitely a finite level of altruism in this business. I, I will add one other thing to that on my skill set, and it was helpful. You know, you mentioned earlier, I'm part of the kind of elite producer program, and, you know, we talk about the, the collection of, you know, many minds and, and how it. It can lead to, to better outcomes. And I did take a lot from that. So as far as honing my skills and figuring out what I. Why I do, what I do, I did have a conversation with a very successful producer in, in that camp. And I would say if you're honing your skills, don't be afraid to talk to other people about what they do and, and, and how they hone their skills and their level of success and how they target things. Because one of the big things I took from that individual was how to get away from having insurance conversations and, and moving to having business conversations. And then as we talked about book growth and development, he helped me kind of see. See the path towards new challenges. And when I say that, you know, it's not a game, but sometimes it is a little bit of a game. And when you identify those, those top targets or dream targets and you make that your game, you've achieved a level of success where you can be a little bit more exclusive. And you're like, I'm going to make it my mission this year that, that these are the three groups I want to write, and I'm going to do everything I can and Having that target and that focus has truly been helpful for, like, these are the ones I want to work with. These are the people that I want as my, as my clients and as my partners.

Yeah. As you said that it's just funny. And I think of anything when you get, when you hear the word focus, when I get focused on something or hear something, it's like, oh, yeah, there it is again. But two words that I continue to see with agencies and producers that are having high levels of success is they simplify and they focus. Simplify, focus, simplify, focus. And it's just rinse and repeat. And just a couple other notes from what you said. I've got kind of one other question I want to get to, Matt is, you know, you talked about being a specialist, and we, you know, we've done other podcasts on that, but the word that. I don't think you use this word, he said trusted advisor and the relationships. But you become indispensable. And, you know, a big part of that by saying, you know, hey, listen, you know, I've got a certain specific niche that I'm gonna go after. I'm gonna know more about this than anybody else, so I can ask even better questions and provide more value. Is that, that's why you get compensated more is because it becomes really hard for you to be replaced. And that requires a deep level of focus. And so, again, I just want to applaud you. And hopefully people are listening to that on the podcast and taking some good notes. You kind of already mentioned this a little bit with the Elite 50 program, and again, you're involved in other things as well, but I'm just a huge believer. I know you are as well, that we really are the average of the people that we hang out with, and so find yourself in good company. So just when it comes to whether it's people or resources, what has been most impactful for you, Matt, of. Of who you've surrounded yourself or what with in your environment?

That's a. A great question, you know, first and foremost, and, and I, I have an amazing support system both personally and professionally here. You know, obviously you can't do this stuff without, Without a great support system at home, because sometimes this business can drain on you. That's. That's very helpful as far as network goes. Involved in, in some leadership programs, but ultimately, the people I surround myself with are. And it's been tough in a, In a virtual environment, but I'm a very, very social person. And what I find is, is that you can have Conversations with lots of people about lots of things, but really what you're trying to do. And again, this does go back and, and I'll, I'll even say his name on here. Jeff Jones. How to. How to have business conversations with people. So no matter what environment I'm in, wherever I'm surrounding myself, it's really about kind of turning the tables and getting people to talk about themselves. I mean, who doesn't like to talk about themselves? But the people that I am, I am interacting with, we're really getting into the conversations of what's going on with you, what's going on with you personally, what's going on with you and your business, what are your struggles? And that's really getting to that deeper level, and that's, that's led to so many, so many other interactions. For me, we're involved in a bunch of different programs here, connected with agency programs, especially for those that are still independently owned. And I have developed a network through that of reaching out to other agencies to get. Get to get information from them. And then, you know, we talk about, about sickens. And I will give you your props as well. Brent, you have been able to introduce me, you know, in the benefits side, benefits side of the house and benefits insurance, where we've just been able to connect and commiserate about the struggles of what we're doing. So when you have those people and I say commiserate, sometimes it's, it's positive and here's how the things, you know, it's often positive, and here's how we can be successful and ways we can work on things together. But it is really seeking out those people that can understand you and are willing to have those conversations. And if they're not, you know, and we joke about if they're not willing to have those conversations, if they're not thinking about what I do in that same light, you know, the insurance guy always gets bashed. Then I kind of recognize that it's time to move on. You know, you, you say surround yourself with, with those other good people. You do get a little bit selective in making sure you're, you're with those positive people that, that want to see you succeed.

Yeah, it's just what I love about that is just talking about an awareness level to that as well. And I wrote down as you were saying that, Matt, and we talked about this in one of our camps this week that I was involved in, because we've got a lot of young, you know, a lot of young producers as well, and Some young, hungry producers. But it's always interesting to me. We'll sit at the end of our camps and we'll do some Q and A. Now, you know, I know that, you know, sometimes you got a hard cut off and people got to go. That happens. But it's always not shocking to me that people that are really hungry for growth hang on and start asking questions and chatting with whether it's Roger, myself, or probably even more importantly, some of their successful peers. Hey, how did you do that? What did that look like? How did that impact you? Right? And they're just listening and learning. And what I wrote down is successful people. And this isn't a hundred percent. There are some, some, there are some successful jerks out there. You're not one of them, Matt. But thank you.

Thank you.

Successful people want to help hungry people. Yeah. And, and I mean hungry for growth. And personally and professionally is that if you're a younger producer, listen to this. Or an inexperienced producer or a young agency leader out there in the marketplace, there are other successful people who, if you reach out to them or join something like with our network or anything else like that, that want to help you. And so part of that is you just got to have the hunger and the desire to want to learn. And if you're doing that, people will see that. You can just, you can see it on people like, you know what, this person wants to be coached. This person wants to get better. I'll share whatever I can and other people will share what they have. And I think everything you said with a great, whether it's mentor, coach, whatever, someone that can help you rise you to higher limits is they'll both encourage you and use the word commiserate. But there's some of that, right? I mean, certainly during the last year we were doing our virtual programs, Matt, sometimes people want to get on there to go, am I the only one? You know, because, like, very lonely. And it's like, no, you're not, but it's lonely. But to encourage you. But at the same token, they're going to challenge you. They're going to call you out when you're like, well, you know, I really can't. Like why? And so I think those things are so, so impactful. So thanks for sharing that, Matt. One last thing. I said we'd keep this to about 25 minutes and we're over 30 minutes. I can't imagine we're having a great conversation, but one more question. I guess not even a question, just a thought from you. If you if, if there's a young producer out there, it doesn't have to be young, a struggling producer, a plateaued producer, maybe that's even a better example. What would be one piece of advice, if you could give any, that you would tell them.

Yeah, so, so, you know, and Brent, you've known me, know me a while now, but the best thing that I, I've ever taken from any of our trainings and, and hit home for me is don't lie to yourself. Okay? And I know you're not surprised to hear me say that. Don't lie to yourself when it comes to so many things. So I mean it. That's my one thing, is don't lie to myself. But as I approach a prospect, as I approach what I'm doing, as I approach my pipeline and I, my pipeline's okay. Is my pipeline really okay? And so I, I will, I will use my quote because Roger steals it from me enough, but it is really.

Like, well, it's a great quote. So I'm excited for this. Go for it.

But, but, you know, I, I was asked at one of our, one of our sessions, you know, for, for my thoughts, and I said, you know, if you think you're telling yourself 100% truth, that's the first lie you told yourself. And you know, there's a lot to break down in that. But, but ultimately we, we love to lie to ourselves. We love to do it. It makes us feel good. And, and that's what I could say to any young producer. If you think you practiced enough, if you think your pipeline is full enough, if you think you asked for referrals enough, did you really do that or are you lying to yourself? And I do reflect on that often as I'm approaching any new, any new prospect or any new topic. It's like, am I as prepared for this meeting as I can be? And until I really feel the answer is yes, you know, I know I'm lying to myself.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to ask you anyway. And just for more clarification to the listeners, this was in one of our elite 50 in person sessions about a year or so ago, and we were getting to the very end, right? And we could do it at the very every, every producer, hey, what's your one thing? And that was it. And I will tell you, kudos to Matt because everyone had some, you know, everyone's got some great thoughts, but when Matt said that, everyone just kind of looked around at each other themselves.

They're like may have been some chuckling.

Yeah, there's some chuckling because. Well, because it's, it's one of those hard truths. You know, it's like the minute. And again, I, I've kind of, kind of butchered. But the minute that you think that you're being 100%, 100% honest, that's your first lie.

Right.

And one of the words that I often hear, I got this from Tony Robbins is he said so often as human beings we love to use softeners, you know, where we can always justify, well, it's not really that bad. I'm doing pretty good here, you know, and it's all these little things that we tell ourselves. And I so appreciate you sharing that because I think of, you know, all the many things, pearls of wisdom that you shared today, Matt. And again, I really appreciate your time for doing this with me. Is I think that's one that if you're going to write anything down, write that down and think about that and just ask yourself, am I really being honest on these certain things that Matt just mentioned? So. Hey, Matt, thanks again. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for being here. And again, just a couple quick reminders if you're interested in learning more about any of our programs and you know, we mentioned a few of them today, in particular our producer program. If you go to sitkins.com programs, you'll see all the different aspects that you can work and partner with Sitkins and determine what's a great fit for you and your. So with that, I wish you and your agency all the best and your success. Thanks for listening.