Success Through Strategic Living with Joe Vens

On this episode of the Agent Leader Podcast, I have the extreme pleasure of interviewing Joe Venz, who's a risk advisor at First Main Street Insurance. And Joe not only has done an amazing job of growing his book, but really understands the power of personal professional growth, mentorship, and how to truly be a category of 1 in the marketplace. We talk about a lot of things insurance and a lot of things about how to become a better human being. If you're a producer, you want to share this podcast for the leadership team. If you're a leadership team, you want to share this podcast with all of your producers. Enjoy the show. Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. This is the podcast for agency leaders to learn, to grow, to develop and ultimately become their best version possible. In fact, I believe that BVP best version possible leaders create best version possible agencies. Now, I've got a number of episodes that have already been released and soon to be released with agency principals and sales leaders. Those people that you go, oh yeah, these are our leaders. And today I've got a leader who is a risk advisor. In fact, he's someone is one of my very few repeat guests. So Joe, I did mention that a little bit earlier on our before we we started recording, but repeat guest and I can't wait to reintroduce him to the audience. And if you haven't listened to the previous podcast, it's been three years ago, I'd forgive you. And I know he's grown a lot and developed and one of the things that I told him prior to recording is that as I reached out to so many of our members that we work with and the agency leaders, I also reached out to a few of the producers that lead from within and lead by being coachable, lead by sharing education, lead by being a great advisor. And I'm so excited and proud to bring on Joe Vens. Joe, officially is your title Risk Advisor. I should have asked you, but you may have a fancier title than that. But Joe, welcome to the podcast and confirm your title to kick things off.

Yeah, thrilled to be back on Risk Advisor is correct. So that's what I go by day to day. And it's funny, thinking back on the episode from three years ago, I intentionally didn't go back and listen prior to today because I'm guessing I would cringe at some of the things that I shared and some of the thoughts and you know, you grow and develop throughout time and hopefully today's episode is in some ways growth oriented in comparison to that. And I know by nature that if we do this again in three years, I'll probably have that same thought and. And deal. And looking back at today's episode, so grateful to be back and excited about the conversation today. Yeah.

And so, Joe, again, risk advisory, the First Main Street Insurance, the great state of Iowa. Are you in Iowa City, I ask you, technically, or.

Yeah, just outside of it. So about 15 minutes outside of Iowa City, 20 minutes south of Cedar Rapids, which is where we're headquartered.

Gotcha. Yeah. So First Main Street Insurance and part of True north, and just a great organization, and we've been very fortunate to work with you guys and what you bring to the table. And like I said, there's so many things that I want to talk about and discuss with you. And you, you already teed up. Something I want to talk about is, you know, your perspective on things. And I love the fact that you said, yes, I was on three years ago, and I would probably cringe if I watch that. And I say that oftentimes in our trainings with people like, listen, I hope that I watch this training of me right now three years from now, and go, gosh, that wasn't very good. Which, by the way, is kind of a strange thing to say when you're teaching people live, you know, like, what are you saying? This isn't good? Like, no, I'm not saying this isn't good. What I'm saying is I sure as heck better get better.

Right?

We all should be getting better. And I think one of the great perspectives that I'm excited to bring you on today, Joe, is talk about your growth, your personal professional development, what that looks like. And so that's going to be a big part. I know we're going to talk about before we get into some of that. I also know you're a family guy. If you'd like to share a little about just what you do, your role within First Main Street, I know you've got a niche as well. Maybe just give a background overview to the audience, the listeners. So we know more about Joe as we kick this off today.

Yeah, absolutely. So on the family front, married to my wife, Erin, we're blessed to have three kids, Lila, who's 9, Dean, who's 7, and then Rory, who's a year and a half old. So on the family front, we stay plenty busy. I love all things sports. Coach our daughter's basketball team. That's kind of my passion. Deal outside of insurance is I just love, love coaching basketball, avid golfer, and then just staying kind of active and doing all the fun things outside and such. So that's me on a personal front, professionally. As you mentioned, with First Main Street Insurance, we're a division of True North Companies, who's the top 40 broker in the country by volume. I serve in a risk advisor role, so more client facing, helping our clients solve challenges, work with risk management and insurance topics. And my focus is public entities. And so that was something that I was new to public entity insurance and risk advising when I joined the firm. But we have a very unique model that has allowed myself and our team to specialize in cities, counties, and school districts that we started off throughout the state of Iowa, and now, based on our geographic expansion within First Main street, are kind of doing that at more of a Midwestern level currently. So I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more throughout the conversation about why public entity and how that came about. But get to serve a lot of city, county, and school district clients and work with them and their complexities. And I love the role. It's something unique and different every day, and yet at the same time, you're working on topics that different clients are facing individually. And so it gives me some level of value that we can provide feedback to them as they're going through those challenges and reference what we're doing with other clients. So been really fun to be in this role for. For coming up on four years now.

Okay. Yeah, I was gonna. And you answered my question. I was thinking, how long have you been. You've been in that role, so four years. So obviously when you came on with the first time.

Right.

You were. You were really new. And I think it was exciting too, to bring you on because you were just kind of getting into the public entity space a little bit and I think get having a little bit of success. But my question is this to you. I want to hear about some of your successes from professional level. And I guess this is a bit of a professional level as well. But just overall, you know, you mentioned three years ago. We were just joking about that. You know, looking back, how have you seen yourself grow? You know, to me, a big part of leadership is consistent growth. And I know it could be a loaded question. You could take it anywhere you want, Joe. But just when you think back of looking at the person three years ago, where have you seen yourself personally and professionally grow the most?

Yeah. Looking back. Yeah. I say this with a truly a ton of humility. I've been. I've just been really lucky and where I've ended up and who I've been surrounded with. So it's so generic to say surround yourself with good mentors, but I don't even know if I did that intentionally. But somehow I'm spending time with people on a consistent basis, that my vision or what I strive to be looks very much like the role that they're playing today. At least my perspective on it. So somebody at True north, like Stu Hocker, I get to spend a lot of time with him. I want to model my practice to look very, very similar to his. And because we work within the same building, I probably drive him crazy. But I'm constantly going to him looking for advice or input on what they're doing with their team or how they advise clients and what templates they're using. And so professionally, just surrounding myself or being surrounded by really good people. And then I do that personally as well. Something that has just grown a lot, and not because I'm doing the work, but just finding myself in the right places. My faith has grown significantly. Get to spend time with the group on Thursday mornings. We're recording this on a Thursday morning. So I'm just coming back from that group. Have mentors within that that are giving me good feedback. And then I've been doing more, diving into, you know, reading and development that way. I've been fascinated by Stoic philosophy recently. So Ryan Holiday is an author that kind of got me. He came and spoke at True North a couple of years ago, got me generally interested in Stoic philosophy. And now I'm reading books like Meditations by Marcus Aurelius and the Letters from Seneca and stuff that I never thought I would be interested in. I thought it'd be way too heady. But spending time in that space has just been part of my development and journey over the last several years. So I don't know if any of that answers your questions. I think it's just generally having a desire and want to grow and then being lucky and finding myself in the right places, surrounded by really good people who I strive to have my life look like at some point.

So, yeah, I think it's super helpful. And you answered the question. Great. And I think the word I circle was mentorship. And there's two sides of that, Joe. And you've been probably more on the mentee side, but you've already grown to where you're going to have mentor moments. And, you know, maybe you did in your group today, right? I mean, all of us are in different places and stages in life. And so I guess what I. What I would like to add with that is my. Got my brain thinking about this. I can think back very early on in my own career. In fact, I was very fortunate to have some really good mentors. And it's kind of funny, Joe, like you said, like, well, maybe I was just lucky because I was there and they were there and we connected. I think there's some truth to that.

But.

But I also know there are people right now listening that do have people. Maybe they're within your professional environment, your space, your agency, or. Or maybe they're not. But you still have to seek that out and you still have to ask questions. I mean, the fact that you said with Stu, oh, he's probably getting, oh, my gosh, here comes Joe again. But on the flip of that, people that are, you know, if you're, you know, leadership space. When you're in leadership space, it's kind of like when teachers have office hours in college, like, they hold them and no one shows up.

Yeah.

Very few people. And so, you know, as a leader, when you've got someone hungry like a Joe or someone in your agency that goes, hey, feed me. Tell me more. Like, what an opportunity to do that. Because the impact what you're doing is not only empowering and growing a person, but also a potential future leader that's going to continue to empower and impact others. And I think that goes a long way. And the other thing, too, Joe, you said, and I mention this all the time because I'm. I'm a huge fan as well, of, you know, know who you surround yourself with matters and what you put in your head. Matters.

Sure.

And I think too often. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know. But I. I would ask any listener right now, like, who are the five people that you hang around with most.

Yeah.

Professionally, personally, what are the last five things that you've read or listened to? And are those people. And are things moving you the direction you want or are they just kind of making you happy for the moment? And by the way, I'm not against entertainment or having fun. Right. Okay. I want to be clear on. You need that space, but I do think it's important. And you're nodding, Joe. I mean, you mentioned books and things, but I mean, obviously this has been critically important to your growth and anything you'd want to add more to that just based on some of my comments there?

Yeah. I think the one thing that, you know, when I, When I mentioned Lucky or I randomly found myself surrounded by these people, part of that is just wanting to be humble. But I do think good advice and feedback, particularly for maybe the younger producer who does want to be mentored. But that's a scary concept because I've been there, right? You feel like you're asking people for their time and for their input. And you do question internally, like, what are they getting out of this? Is this just me value, me benefit? And somebody else is having to spend all this time and investment in it. But the reality is, and this is kind of sales 101, we should all be somewhat knowledgeable around this. The number one thing people like talking about is themselves. And so when I go out and seek out a stu hocker to ask him, hey, how are you doing this with this client? Or how have you structured your team to look like this? And, you know, there's probably some level of. He enjoys talking about his journey and how his team's grown. And he loves to brag on, you know, Jennifer Loose is a member of his team. He loves bragging on how she's the best account manager in the world and she keeps his life sane. And, you know, so as daunting as it can be to go to somebody to ask for mentorship and advice and time, I think we have to remember too, like, people genuinely like talking about themselves, and they benefit from vocalizing the things that they're doing too. It kind of reinforces their own ideas. And so I would encourage those who are considering wanting to ask somebody for their time or seeking mentorship that the person that you're sitting across from, they're going to benefit from it as well, and they'll probably be excited when you ask. So I would encourage people to do that.

Great advice. And just. It brought my mind to someone who I talked to a couple of years ago, and I think I said something to the fact of, listen, I know I'm probably taking a bunch of your time and, you know, I, I appreciate. I don't know what value I'm providing you. He stopped and he goes, I can't tell you how valuable these conversations are because it reinforces things that I've done or I've forgotten about. And it just gets me excited. So I think that's such great advice, Joe. And again, my big takeaway here for all the listeners, if you're an agency leader, find the people that are hungry and pour into them. They, they, they want it, they seek it. And there's not many people, unfortunately, and they sure wish there was more that want that. And from the other side, just like Joe said, like, don't be Scared, Go ask for advice. And by the way, if you ask 10 people for advice and one or two of them say go fly a kite, so be it.

Who cares for sure. Plus, in our profession, the reality is when you're trying to seek new appointments or seek new opportunities, you're probably going to get the inverse ratio of you're going to ask 10 people from their time and maybe one or two of them will say yes. So your ratio is a lot better seeking advice anyway. So go get some encouraging yeses before you have to hit the phones or go ask for. For business meetings and other opportunities.

That's a great point. That's a great point. I want to talk about some of your successes. And again, you can take this wherever you want. I always like to talk about, you know, success leaves clues you've heard. In our programs, Joe. We want to replicate success, find the things that work and double down on them in different ways. So I'd like to get from your perspective and again, you can take this wherever you want. Where have you seen or found some success in your business in particular, and how is that navigated? What have you learned from it? Right. Anything you could take away to share with the audience would be appreciated. So I'm going to leave that wide open over to you.

Sure. Yeah. I think the one thing that's important for all of us as producers, when you start into the business, you're trying to identify any and every opportunity. For the most part, you're trying to generate revenue and make sure, make yourself valued or validated at the agency that you're at. And so I think that's just a natural progression with where we all start. The one thing that's been successful for our team and something that I've grown an appreciation for over the last three to four years is finding where you're unique and different in the marketplace and really honing in what that looks like and what can be your great advantage that looks different from all of your other competitors. And that's not something that you can spend five minutes on conceptually thinking about and then identify and go execute on it. Like, that takes focus, time that's on your calendar. Thoughtfulness, templates, planning. And so I can just speak briefly to ours with our public entity program. The reason that I think we find success in that is our first Main street model. Part of it is we partner with agencies where they have a perpetuation play, where you have a. An agency owner that's nearing retirement, they might not have a plan for succession or they want Something greater for their staff or kind of their next leader, where they want to be a part of a bigger organization with tools and resources that give that group opportunity and at the same time leaving them some level of autonomy and being able to stay in their community. So part of First Main Street's model is going out and acquiring agencies, partnering with them, but allowing them to stay independent somewhat and in their community. So with our public entity model, what I identified is if I'm calling on cities, counties and school districts independently out of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, most of the decision makers want to work locally at some level. And so it's very hard to get those buyers interested in meeting with me and hearing our value proposition. But when we reach out to them or can partner with our local agencies and groups and approach it with the level of, hey, our model is a best of both worlds concept that has not existed in the marketplace historically. You know, Mr. School District Superintendent or Mrs. City Administrator, historically you've had to either select between working with your local agency and in doing so, you felt good about generating revenue back into the community. You knew the people that you were working with, they had a pulse on what was happening locally. In doing so, you might not have had every insurance market you ever needed, or you might not have had loss control resources or some of the things that you could have found value in, but you enjoyed working locally. The other side of that was if you grew in size and complexity and scale, you may have felt like, hey, we need to go to a larger metropolitan agency that has the insurance market asset access or the tools and resources that we need. So you move your business to a Chicago metro agency or a Twin Cities metro or Des Moines Metro. With our model, we feel like we can offer the best of both worlds. So a local agency in your community where you might have a local account manager or agent that's there that knows what's happening. And at the same time, our group behind the scenes works with cities, counties and school districts all across the Midwest, knows your challenges and pain points, knows the insurance markets. And so that's the value proposition that we're selling a lot of times to our clients and prospective clients. If I were at a different agency, without the geographic space, that story just doesn't make sense or resonate or I can't sell it. But based uniquely on where I'm at, that deal works. And so that took a lot of conversations and a lot of input from others on our team to formulate that value proposition. But it's worked really, really well for our team. And so I think for any individual producer, that's not necessarily going to be their story, but their background, what they've done historically, professionally, where they have expertise and insight. I think you can formulate your own story around a niche that you want to go after. It just has to make sense for you and has to resonate to your end client on where that's important or where it adds value to them. So sorry, that was a really long answer. But that's where we're finding success is just with that story and value proposition.

Hey there, agent leader Brent Kelly here. Want to take just a few seconds to remind you that now is the time to create your true, best version possible agency. If you go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we'll get to know more about your agency, conduct an agency assessment and provide your agency with a customized plan to help you avoid some of the pitfalls, frustrations, challenges and roadblocks to get your agency to true, ultimate freedom and become its best version possible. It all starts by going to sitkins.com bookacall. I think it's a great story. It's a great success. I think the thing that really jumped out, and I want to go a little bit deeper here is having that unique selling proposition and thing you said, Joe, that was, it really resonated with me is about it really takes time and effort and strategy and conversations of trying to figure out and navigate. Because you can imagine I've got a lot of producers we work with, especially the newer, younger ones, are like, well, I get the idea that I need to be unique. I get the idea I've got to have we call points of differentiation. I get the idea that ultimately it'd be great to have a specialty or a niche that I really could get in and own. What do I do? How do I start? And you know, for some of it is there's not just a magic bullet answer, right? There's, there's parts to this. But I think what you said, which is interesting, is that just to go out and float around and just hope it'll magically come to you isn't as likely as, hey, let me just really stop and have some time to diagnose this and think about it, have conversations. So I don't know if you could put that. I'd like to get your perspective on that. But if you've got a, a newer producer, younger producer, gosh, you could be a veteran producer, maybe you'd like to take that next step. What would be a piece of advice or suggestions you may give them to start that process. Joe?

Yep. The first thing is I recognize that it's overwhelming to even start to think about it and to set aside time to develop that when you're so crazy busy within your business. I recognize I was very fortunate. I had leaders within First Main street who got excited about this concept that if nothing else gave me the accountability of, hey, we're going to talk about this public entity group on a bi weekly basis. And for me there's a level of pressure of, okay, I have executives that are showing up to this meeting and they want to hear about progress that I'm updating what our executive brief looks like, what's the value proposition? How are we going to move a prospective client from A to Z? So I was very lucky to have the accountability piece there. I recognize that not everybody will have that, but I think it is one setting aside time consistently on your calendar to develop whatever you think your specialty or niche is going to be and not have that be the meeting that just gets moved every week because something else comes up. Putting on that on your calendar and being very serious about it, that would be one, one piece of advice. The other thing that I would say, particularly for younger producers looking back is even if it's outside of niche or specialty, it's all going to matter. And you won't be able to see how it matters until you get there. But all the work, learning insurance, learning forms, learning risk management strategies, sitting in the Sitkins profit and understanding sales process, you know, discovery, plan implementation, management, like all that stuff, even if it's outside of what you want your end niche to be, you won't see the value in it long term. But until you get there and it all matters. Me writing home and auto insurance for personal lines customers five years ago, I do none of that today. But I learned lessons along the way of coverage and how it applies and working with underwriters and stuff that when you look back you see the value in it. But when you're in it, it's kind of hard to, to dissect that. So that would be my other piece of advice, particularly for younger, like embrace it all and understand that it's all going to matter, even if it feels like it doesn't at the time.

Yeah, great, great advice. I love that perspective. And it is, it's interesting the things look back and you gosh, I learned a lot from that. I didn't like it at the time or I didn't understand or didn't make sense. And I thought I was, you know, and you know, every situation is different. So I always want to be. Be careful of this. But, you know, if you're a new producer and I've had that, people ask me, you know, I'm six months in, like, what should be my niche. I'm like, you know what the joke we said just go play in traffic more. Right? I mean, literally just. Just go out there and get some experiences. The key is, is that you're learning and evolving through those experiences. Not looking back in 10 years, you're doing the same thing you did when you were two years in, which does happen, right? How are you taking those and having them shape you and going, you know, I learned from this. I learned from this. I learned from this. And by the way, some of the experience of. I learned that I never want to do that again. That's what I. So, okay, great. Know that that's where I want to go. That's where. Where I want to be. And the other thing too, is interesting. I want to comment again. You're with a great organization and there's no doubt there's accountability. Pieces of, hey, here's what I want to go, okay, let's make this happen. Let's make a commitment and figure it out. If you are with an agency that maybe doesn't want to go that direction, you still can make some public or even your own private accountability, like declare some things. This is what I'm doing. This is where I'm going. This is why it's important. This is true in any behavior is that if you just tell yourself, I think I'm gonna go do this now, and it's a kind of a. Kind of a lean in, like, yeah, I think I'll give that a shot. You're gonna get kicked in the face somewhere. And that's the first time you go, yeah, never mind, I didn't really mean that anyway. And versus saying, here's what I'm going to do, and maybe you say, I'm going to give this everything for 12 months or 18 months or whatever it is. Like, I am committed to giving this everything I have and I'm going to learn in the process. Versus and they should dabble in public entity insurance.

Yeah, there's one of my favorite people to listen to. There's a guy, his name is Naval Ravikant and he wears a bunch of different hats. He's a angel investor philosopher, just a very wise individual. And one of the things along the lines of that, that he Says is our brain has a big desire to hold true to the things that we state publicly. So the example that he always gives is, you know, if somebody decides, hey, you know, drinking for me, I need to cut back on drinking, and I might want to get rid of that altogether. He says the unserious person will say, you know, I'm only going to drink once a week, or I'm going to limit it to one drink, or I'm going to try and go for a little bit of time and see if I don't need a drink. He says the serious person will go to their spouse and say, I'm done drinking. You'll never see me drink again. They'll post on Facebook or LinkedIn, you know, I, you know, as of today, I'm not drinking. They will make public declarations about it. And, you know, for everybody, that's going to look a little bit different. But what he says is that the rate of success and drinking is just an example. It can be anything. But he says the person that acknowledges it publicly, your brain will want to hold true to the things that you made public announcements on. So I think that's very good. Going to other stakeholders and say, this is what I'm focused on. This is where I want to find success. Would love for you to help me with that, but this is what I'm going to do. I think that there's a level of success that will come with that just naturally.

Yeah, great. I. I love that example and just that, that mindset. Powerful stuff, Joe. Thanks. All right. I mentioned getting kicked in the teeth. I know that's never happened to you. You know, you've never had a. A setback or a major failure, but. And maybe it's not even major, maybe it's a series of minor failures, but I would like to know if your perspective, what have been some of your biggest challenges or hurdles or frustrations maybe that you've dealt with in the past and you've overcome them, or at least you're making great progress, or maybe today you go, man, I'm really struggling with this, but here's what I'm trying to do or working through. So again, leave it wide open to you what jumps out in that arena.

Yeah, there's so many things, you know, you can think back of examples of accounts loss, perspective or, you know, current clients, deals, lost mistakes on, underwriting things, claims that weren't. I mean, within this business, there's just always going to be so many challenges and moments like that. I think the one that comes to mind. For me, at least right now, it's because I'm in the thick of it. I've always, I should say historically when I got into the business, I was just always the producer. Hey, go produce. You'll have account managers that will help support you in that. Here's your sales number. Go hit it. And I kind of understood the formula and like I need to make this level of calls, I need to be in front of these type accounts, just easier by nature. My role somewhat shifted into still doing that, still producing, but now it's more team oversight, making sure that our business unit is profitable and that we have a healthy amount of organic growth versus profitability and you know, keeping team members accountable, systems and processes. It's just a lot more of what I haven't done historically. And the one thing that I'm learning is I have things in my brain that I just naturally will look at how a proposal is put together or how we're presenting information and I know how I want it. And what I'm realizing is I'm very, very bad at communicating that to our team members slowly and broken down in a systems and processes oriented way. And so it starts with me being frustrated that things aren't being handled and my ego wants to tell me that I'm frustrated with team members when that stuff comes up. Right. And then when I really diagnose it, I'm frustrated with myself that I haven't brought clarity and actually slowed down to talk to those items conceptually. So I'm in the thick of learning that right now we have a weekly with our team, we do a weekly high performance teams meeting that we took from the Sitkins group. That is a standing meeting. It happens every week. But that for us is more what accounts are renewing or what continue relationships are continuing. It's what red flag items do we have, what do we need to handle today? So it's more in the business we've also implemented and we've been doing it consistently for six months now. A systems and processes meeting. And it's the same group of people but it's sitting down and talking through what should every tier one client be getting consistently? What templates are we using for presentations, how are we pre scheduling meetings? And that's been world changing. And I'm learning I do have an incredible team. I mean truly what I feel are some of the best in our industry at what they're doing day to day. And I need to be a better leader and communicate and not just assume that everybody's brain works the way that mine does because by nature it just won't naturally. So that's been a challenge that we're overcoming right now. And I'm guessing particularly for a lot of the high performing producers that listen to your show, Brent, like that has to be a common theme that you get out of the I'm just the sales guy role and at some point you have to start managing. And so that's the challenge that I'm working through. Yeah.

Wow. But again, very good perspective and it's interesting, I think, about some of the highest performing producers that I get the pleasure to work with. And there's a common theme like they're continuing to build their teams and you know, very old cliche phrase, but it's true. It's like you want to go fast or do you want to go far? And you know, and again, you can go fast as a producer for a while and work really hard and produce and you can have a really good life that way. Quite frankly, I mean, if you just work hard enough, you might lose your mind at some point, but you can do it. But this idea of how do I engage and pour in and educate and empower the people around me to help support me, not just because it's just what's the right thing to do, but because it helps you and your team all grow at higher levels. And I was chuckling Joe, as you were saying that it reminded me of my own in my own world with our team at Sidkins and I can't remember the exact situation but was talking about some like strategy things and things are wanting to do. And I began to start saying, well, we could do this or we could do this or we could do this or we could do this. And a member of our team goes, why don't you just let us do that because I know what you want. And. And they did it. And they go, well, that was a lot better, a lot faster than I would have done. And it just so, so half, you know, so often again, we do have unique abilities, as Dan Song would say, and different strengths and to be able to bring those to a team. And one of the things that Roger teaches quite a bit, Roger Sitkins to our leaders is about commander's intent. And the idea behind it is that, you know, that there's a longer story to this. But like if we're going to take this hill right in this battle, the point of it is this is the hill, this is what we want to accomplish. This is the end goal. And then from There you let your people figure out the design, the strategies of how they're going to do it because you've given them the intent now let them go do their jobs at really high levels and they'll come back to you with things. So I, I think that's just fantastic, fantastic advice as you do that. I'm, I'm fascinated as we stay in touch with each other of like how you continue to do that.

Sure.

Build that as you go. So anything you want to add to that? I know I went on a bit of a ramble there, Joe, so.

No, that's, that's great. I, Again, back to the earlier comments. You know, three years from now I'll probably look back at this episode and really realize how in the throes of things we were and how little perspective that I actually had in this moment. But it feels a lot better today to just entrust and empower our team and to have open dialogue and for me to just be vulnerable. I mean, part of it is just sitting down and saying, hey, this is what came up during this presentation. This is where the information wasn't correct or this was formatted in a different way. You know, this is where the pain point was. For me, this is what I'm hoping it can look like moving forward. But I want your guys insights on why it's presented this way. If there's ideas that you have that will make this better. And usually if you get the people, there's some saying that I'm going to butcher. But it's like if you build the plane, you're more invested in its flight. If you have active, like I was a part of putting together the strategy as opposed to if it's just me saying it needs to be this, this, this, this and this. Yep. That's not very attractive for our team members to be working within that environment. So yeah, giving them ownership and a high level of hey, let's collaborate on this. As opposed to me just telling you what to do, trying to spend more time there.

Yeah, it's, I, I, yeah, I, I love that whole phrase. And you know, we talk in our leadership programs about culture and process and if we don't establish the culture, which is, this is why and this is the purpose behind the vision that we have and then allowing your team to help navigate that. Yeah. Not only is are you getting great perspective from people that might have better insight than you do in certain areas, but they're also, you're also getting buy in now. They're part of the design now they're part of the design. I go, hey, I'm with you. Let's, you know, even if they were 3% part of the design, they're part of the design. And now we're doing this together. So great leadership lessons there, Joe. Listen, I know I've got a couple questions and. And technically we're coming up on time a little bit, so do you have a few extra minutes to spend with.

Absolutely. Yeah. Let's keep rolling.

So the next one you mentioned, high performance teams and some of the Sitkins trainings. I'm always interested in the perspective because we know that, you know, agencies and producers don't implement everything that we do. There's lots of different things. But what's one either strategy or behavior or process that you personally, your team has really honed into from some of our, our teaching and trainings and philosophies that had the greatest impact on your business, Joe?

Yeah, it's been. The process through Sitkins truly has been world changing for myself and our team and our practice. We're fortunate we get to work with, you know, you and Roger and team members. But then we have an individual on our team, Matt Hughes, who is our sales strategist, who I get to work with closely, and he is a. I don't know if Sitkin's disciples too strong, but like, he's all in on your guys's platform and strategy, so I get a lot of feedback from him as well. The thing that's been most beneficial for me is that the whole sales process from A to Z, so, you know, again, discover, plan, implement, and manage is our version of that. But taking clients and prospective clients through a systematic process. And then the points of differentiation piece I used to go out, I'd always have kind of a presentation booklet when I would go to our first appointment, but it was all about the agency and who we were. So it was, hey, we've been in business for this many years and we have the best customer service and, you know, we care about our clients and we're in the community. It's all this stuff that like Roger, if you listen to him in presentations, basically says, hey, everybody says this, so stop saying this. And so the points of differentiation for me are like within that executive brief meeting, not only what makes us different, but why that matters to the person that I'm in front of. So again, to the school district superintendent, I can say, you know, hey, I know you've done business locally with another agency for a number of years, and I want to learn more about that relationship and what that looks like. Part of why we're in front of you today is because we feel like we have a best of both worlds concept that many other school districts are finding value in and would love to tell you a little bit about that and why a school district like abc, you know, why that might be appealing to you. And then we'll just learn back and forth and have good conversation and see if there's a future business partnership or relationship, whether that's today or years down the road. But it's finding those points of differentiation and why it matters to them as opposed to just this is who we are and we have these fancy resources. You should be excited about working with us. That's typically not a recipe for, for success.

So, yeah, such great, great comments on that from what you've done installed. And you know, I always talk about this, you know, with the points of differentiation or whatever you want to call them, but the things that make us unique in the marketplace. I always tell agencies and producers, you can't have a differentiated selling process if first of all you don't know how you're different. And it does start with that. And we talked about that earlier in this, in this conversation. And I think the thing that hits to having a, you know, a set offense or a process that you can revolve around is, well, number one, you've got ownership in it. There's obviously more effectiveness that you're taking people through a journey or a plan and you can repeat it. It's not just why you did it this way and this way and you're always going to have flexibility in that. But there's a process that you can trust and practice, practice and prepare around that allows you to go to deeper. And then the biggest thing you said there, which I hope everyone heard, is the fact that you know Stephen Covey, who I know you're a big book guy and all that, you know seven habits of highly effective people is habit five. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. And most agencies and producers, even though. Oh yeah, yeah. Seek first to understand, then to be understood, typically come in with a dog and pony show. Let me tell you how long we're in business. Let me tell you how great we are. Let me tell you why we're an expert in your area. Let me tell you how much we know about everything. By the way, I have no idea if you care about this, but aren't we cool? And you know, versus saying, listen, I'm really here to better. I want to get A better understanding how you view this situation, how you view risk, how you view these relationships, what matters to you. And I'm going to ask some questions. And by the way, we may not be a fit. That's okay. So I think that whole thing is critical, so I appreciate you sharing that. All right. Do you have time for one last question? My favorite question?

Absolutely.

I think I asked you this three years ago, but then again, I don't know. And now you're a little bit older, so you have to go a little further back. All right, sure. The question I ask every guest on the podcast is that let's say you bump into brand new out of college Joe, which for you isn't that long ago, but brand new out of college, or maybe you're in, I don't care, you're younger. And that younger version of you looks up at the current you and says, hey, Joe, give me one piece of advice that's going to help me most as I take off or start my career. What would you tell them?

That's such a good question. I hope that you don't mind me doing this, but I'm gonna. Instead of going college version or recent college version, I'm gonna go new producers. So right when I got into the business, that version of me. So that would have been five years ago, six years ago. I had a very young family at the time, so we had two young kids and there was just a ton of stuff ahead. I told you before we jumped on. I just recently had a health event myself. My appendix ruptured on me about a month ago. And so it's been kind of a crazy last 30 days of a lot of ups and downs, health wise and expectations that weren't met. And so I wrote down a list after I journaled on that experience and kind of what were the lessons taken? One of them that I wrote down, that stood out. It sounds trite, but don't live a stupid life. And what I mean by that is if you're so stressed and anxious and worried about all the things of the world all the time, and you think, well, if I grind this out for 5 to 10 years, I'll find success and I'll make more money and I'll have more freedom. That's the point that I'll be happy once I have all those things, I'll be happy at that point. The reality is that's a mirage if you can't figure out how to be happy in your current circumstances and enjoy the process and the grind of it and I think I spent a lot of years of, like, I was physically with my wife and kids, and I was there, but mentally I was so stressed out and anxious and how am I going to make my business work? And can I get validated? And am I a failure in this because I'm getting rejected all the time and just not enjoying life all that much, Just thinking, oh, that'll come later. And the reality is, until you change your internal state and do work on yourself, that doesn't get better with outside worldly validation or success. You have to kind of change the internal first. And part of that's coming from reading, you know, all these stoic books and understanding that whether I want to acknowledge it or not, at some point I am gonna die. You know, whether that's later today or hopefully years down the road when I'm 90 or 100 or whatever that'll look like. But I think just understanding, don't live a stupid life, don't punt all of your happiness to the future, but enjoy your family, enjoy the work you're doing, enjoy the learning and development, the growth. That would be what I would have told myself when I was first starting out. Because those years of stress and anxiety, I look back, nothing was as bad as I thought it was. And I was learning throughout the entire time. It all mattered today. I just. I wish I could have embraced that more when I was starting.

Wow, that's really powerful. I'd say that speaks volumes to me personally. And I just think about things and I. I could totally understand, appreciate, and I've done so much of that and still struggle with that to a degree. And I actually made a note, you know, just different things like, you know, I don't do this hard work and things, because the part of it's, if I do this and I get this accomplished and I do this and then I'll be happy, then I'll find joy, then I. Then I can give more to my family, who I love so much, versus I'm with my family I love so much right now. And it brings me great joy. And I don't do it because I'm trying to prove something. I do it because I love them. Right? I do it because I get to. I, you know, it's just. Just a different way of just appreciating. And that's really hard for so many people that are. Are trying to grow. And I don't mean to go off and keep you, but it's interesting. I question maybe, maybe I'll put you on the spot here. Because I love your perspective. But one of the things that I a question I've asked myself and other people is, you know, balancing ambition and gratitude.

Yep.

Constant struggle of, you know, we've talked at the beginning of this podcast how much you've grown, how much you want to grow, how much three years from now you're going to look back, but at the same time being able to appreciate exactly where you are at this moment is a very interesting element, I think, in the human nature.

I don't know if this is good or bad for me to think, but it's a thought that I have. My kids are nine, seven and a year and a half, so they're all within our house. They all still enjoy me to a relative extent. So I've had the thought, I don't know if my life is going to get much better than it is right now. And that's somewhat morbid to think about. But like, if I'm not enjoying it now, at some point my kids are going to grow up and leave the house. And so it's just, it's a reminder for me personally that like be in gratitude and enjoy it. Because this whole mirage concept of when I'm making more money or I have more status or I have more time, that's when I'm going to be happy. That's all. It's just a false narrative that we tell ourselves. So I think wherever you're at in your career or personal life, I think just remembering that is important. So that would be my feedback to a younger version.

So good, Joe, I knew having you on would be a blessing. It absolutely was. I love the fresh perspective and where you come at things. And congratulations on your success and congratulations on overcoming at least getting through your last month of your, of your health issues as well. If all goes well, we could make you the first three time guest. We'll have to see, but maybe it'll be three more years and we'll see where you're at now. And you've got all other things you're working on and all that good stuff. So appreciate you Joe, very much. And for the Agent Leader podcast listeners, as always, this is added value to you. Please share, rate, review all that fancy stupid podcast stuff that I have to say at the end. Appreciate you, wish you all the best in your success. Thanks so much for listening and thanks again Joe for being a guest.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Wait, you're still here? Hey, Agent Leader podcast listeners. Brent Kelly, again, I want to first of all, thank you for listening to the Agent Leader Podcast and your continued support. If you would like to have more content come your way, please help us by sharing the podcast, subscribing to the podcast, telling people about the podcast, and if you, as an Agent Leader are truly ready to take that next step in your agency, you're committed and want to be that best version possible agency. Don't worry. Wait. Go to sitkins.com bookacall sitkins.com bookacall we want to provide the blueprint for your agency to help you create more impact with less effort. And it all starts by going to sidkins.com bookacall all right, now you can actually go. Thanks.